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mast help needed

Posted By: bullswan

mast help needed - 10/06/05 03:29 PM

Since the last question I posted about Hull Oxidation proved so sucessful I'm pushing my luck. I've attached two photos to show damage to my mast that I'd like some thoughts from you all with.
The "stripes" cannot be polished off. I've tried lots of stuff. It seems to be a removal of the anodizing if I had to guess (but I don't know much about that honestly). I don't know what caused them either....they came with the boat.
The second photo shows wear/rubbing damage at the tang from the jib halyard block. I don't know what to use to repair the damage and/or some way to prevent the reoccurance. Have any of you run across this and what can be done?

Thanks in advance......

Greg

Attached picture 59026-Nacramast2.jpg
Posted By: bullswan

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 03:31 PM

Posted picture # 2

Attached picture 59027-Nacramast1.jpg
Posted By: hobiegary

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 03:48 PM

If you add a pigtail (short length of wire) above that block, then the block will locate further forward, away from the mast.

GARY
Posted By: hobienick

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 03:51 PM

I'm not sure about removing the stripes. My masts have all be black anodizing and I haven't seen this problem on them.

For the wear under the forstay tang I have used some self adhesive plastic sheet. Usually clear, but whatever I could find laying around the shop at work. I don't know what the material is but is shouldn't really matter. I would think the more important part is how well the adhesive works. I changed mine at the beginning of every season.
Posted By: CraigO

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 06:49 PM

I am not trying to be glib, but fixing that kind of stuff does not make you go any faster.
Aesthetically it looks bad, I will agree, and I would probably try and get some off as well. But in the big scheme, your time would be better spent fairing the hulls, rudders, etc. Also replacing running rigging, lines etc would be more beneficial to getting the boat ready for the water. The rubbing near the tang can be lessoned by using rubber tape around the fittings.
Anyway, good luck with the boat!!
Posted By: PTP

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 07:06 PM

I am going to have to agree with the previous post. Make sure all the hardware parts of the boat are at 100% before spending time on cosmetic stuff concerning the mast. I think the pain of getting rid of those scuff marks is not worth it.
Posted By: Mike Hill

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 07:34 PM

If those scuff marks don't come off with Acetone or MEK I wouldn't worry about them. The marks by your forstay can be helped by getting some white or black grip tape that is usually sold to put down on stairs to make them non-slip.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com
Posted By: bullswan

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 11:03 PM

I appreciate the fact that it might appear that I'm being only fussy but maybe the pictures don't do the situation justice. The block at the top of the jib halyard is actually rubbing a hole in the mast if left to it's own.
Gary's suggestion seems the best fix to me of bringing down the forestay the block. If I try to solve it by tape or such I believe it would simply rub through in no time. I got a PM to say the the block looks turned 180 degrees. That's interesting if true. What do you see?
The other stuff ( the stripes) I agree is cosmetic. I was more curious if anyone else has experienced the same markings and I am stumped as to what caused it.

Thanks
Greg
Posted By: BobG

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 11:27 PM

Are'nt those black stripes made from the front mast cradle that has foam or black tape wrapped around it or roller, somone already suggested acetone If not maybe some of the fender mark remover from West Marine........
Posted By: Andrew

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 11:28 PM

Block may be turned only 90 degrees; maybe try a 90-degree shackle? I'm not sure how the Nacra sloops are typically rigged; I haven't studied one, and haven't owned one since I sold my 5.O 4 or 5 years ago.
Posted By: Jake

Re: mast help needed - 10/06/05 11:39 PM

This is a REALLY quick and dirty drawing...but if I remember correctly, the forestay should have a pigtale on it for the jib halyard cable block. Adding a small pigtail to it should take care of that problem...but that block looks like it's attached to it's own eye? Can you zoom out on that picture a little?


[Linked Image]

Attached picture 59058-Graphic1.jpg
Posted By: bullswan

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 12:46 AM

Jake,
When I bought the boat this was how the block was rigged but I went ahead and refitted it with new Shrouds and Forestay as a safety issue. The new forestay came with that pigtail that looks remarkably like your drawing. When it came I didn't know what to do with it since the original had NO PIGTAIL. It makes sense now what you and Gary are saying that I should attach that block to the pigtail and move it away from the mast. Kinda embarassed I didn't see it right off. I'll give that a try. Should I try to fix the indentation the block made already in the mast or forget it? Any thoughts on what I could fill the indentation with?

Thanks
Greg
Posted By: Jake

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 01:48 AM

There's not really much you could do to repair it - but it should be OK.
Posted By: Mike Hill

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 02:29 AM

Quote
There's not really much you could do to repair it - but it should be OK.


Jake is right. Not much you can do to repair the damage. I would not worry about it.

The cosmetic streaks on your mast looked like a trailering issue. Like something was rubbing the mast as it went down the road. That's my guess.

Mike Hill
Posted By: bullswan

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 10:41 AM

Sounds good. Thanks guys.

Greg Hill
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 10:53 AM

It looks like your issue have been solved, but for information.
When we have had such problems, we have had success with a small alu-plate bent and formed to the mast, taped heavily to the contact-spot. Just replace the alu-plate every two-three years..
Posted By: bullswan

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 11:06 AM

Thanks Rolf. I thought about having my local aluminum welder who did such a great job before on my main beam weld the indentation to fill it up. I think I'll just leave it alone and watch it for signs of a bigger problem. I will be moving the jib halyard block to the pigtail on the forestay TODAY. Enjoy the day in Norway!
Greg
Posted By: Jake

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 11:46 AM

I wouldn't consider welding on a mast - the bend characteristics are pretty critical and heat treating the aluminum will not bid well for it's fatigue or brittleness.
Posted By: Jalani

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 12:05 PM

Second that Jake. I think I'd probably consider glueing a small ali plate dressed to shape over the damage, just for aesthetics. There are several high performance glues around suitable for use on aluminium - I'm sure that Jimbo could tell you what is available at your local hardware store in the US..
Posted By: carlbohannon

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 01:27 PM

If it is just for aesthetics, fill the void with al filled epoxy. Gray JB weld will probably work too. Clean the void with acetone, then clean it again. Fill the void and smooth it with a plastic scrapper. There should only be epoxy in the void. Works on carbon masts too.

This is mainly for Rolf. Instead of using an Al plate to protect the mast you can use centerboard gasket held in place with waterproof duct tape. Layline showed this for a monohull but it works for the Tornado. I used a ~15cm strip of centerboard gasket. I glued it down with contact cement and then taped the edges with waterproof duct tape.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 02:31 PM

Thank's Carl, will try the next time around.

For bonding to alu, I got the advice to prepare the alu to be glued (sanding etc.), but the last thing to do, was to wet-sand the surfaces to be bonded with epoxy instead of water. I have not tried it yet, but it sounds like a very good idea. The guy who came up with this was trying to repair an alu track that had pulled off a carbon mast..
Posted By: Jake

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 02:37 PM

The problem with bonding anything to aluminum is that it 'corrodes' practically immediately when in contact with air. This tiny corrosion layer actually helps protect the internal aluminum (I'm NOT talking about anodizing) but it doesn't bond with anything well. SOoooo...if you can abrade the surface while keeping it from coming in contact with air (i.e. using epoxy?) then you might have something. I've never heard of using epoxy between the sandpaper and the aluminum before the idea certainly has merit. The sanding 'dust' might be considered a problem in the epoxy - but as long as it's minimal it shouldn't be much of a problem. Besides, if you add aluminum powder to epoxy, it helps it resist abrasion.
Posted By: Mark Meis

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 03:34 PM

I recommend at the hound add a wear plate using 18 guage stainless. Attach with 4 small rivets and bed with 4200. 18 guage can be form bent by hand to fit the mast. the suggestion about using a pigtail is good but the wear plate will protect the mast and remedy the current problem. The black marks are the result of how the boat was trailered in the past. Clean up the best you can and live with it.
Posted By: bullswan

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 04:00 PM

Damn. I was hoping no-one said to drill into the mast.....
I HATE to drill into the mast. For any reason. And what is 4200? Sounds like a 3M product?

Greg
Posted By: Jake

Re: mast help needed - 10/07/05 05:07 PM

It's a 3m product. 4200 is 5200's younger brother. 4200 is not quite as permanent as 5200 and is prescribed for bonding to plastics to anything else. 5200 is not prescribed for plastics but works great between gelcoat, fiberglass, and metal.
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