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adding a spin to N6.0

Posted By: PTP

adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/10/05 07:18 PM

alright, as if I didn't have enough sail area with the express, I find myself thinking... I see more cats with spins than not at the races.... should I get a spin? Seems as though I haven't spent enough money (yeah, right) so I was wondering- how much do you think it would cost to add a spin to my boat? Anybody have a spin rig sitting around that would work on my boat for a reasonable price?
I am not set on a spin (have a lot to learn as it is without complicating matters) but am curious.
thanks
Posted By: EasyReiter

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/10/05 08:17 PM

Well since you are just curious you may not get the response you are looking for.
Spins new are about $900-1200
new pole is about $300
blocks and lines and such are another $300
either a spin bag or snuffer is about $250
Still just curious?
if you really want to do it, then it has been done so all the locations for everything is known and there are probably pictures here at catsailor or on beachcats somewhere.
Posted By: pitchpoledave

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/10/05 10:35 PM

yes, definitely get a spin. The 6.0 is amazing with one. I have an I20 spin and it works great. Very flat. I have a 14' pole, and sheet it to the front beam and it works very well. Probably cost you $1500-2000.

If you want some pics of my setup I could get them for you..
Dave
http://www.westlakesailingclub.com
Posted By: PTP

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/10/05 11:19 PM

if you have some pics available that would be great.
Posted By: BobG

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 worrell Videos or - 10/11/05 12:09 AM

New england, NEMSA 6.0 are specialists maybe there is an old rig around with extra spi? The early worrell videos must have some good footage of the 6.0 fleet around 1997-2000.How long are these videos and are they mostly from the beach or chase boat in filming,I would like to buy more .I have 2001 ,just would like more of a description from anyone thanks.Also where is the footage if any from the 80's Worrell's .Not to highjack the thread but this is good stuff I imagine.
Posted By: Krisu13

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/11/05 03:57 AM

You can try to contact Rick Bills. (http://new-england-catamarans.com/hot.html ) he had few of spinnakers for sale.

Another good source to get some ideas for your snuffing system is http://www.funcat-sailing.de/Tornado/sitespisysteme.htm

If you debating whether go with end pole or mid pole snuffing system go with mid pole. Not so harsh on the spinnaker.

As of now I’m trying to make my own snuffing ring out of fiber glass – tired of launching from the tramp. I still do not know which style to choose. Any input would be appreciated (dimensions).

Spinnaker might be little expensive but it is worth every penny.

Hope it helps.

Kris
Posted By: Jake

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/11/05 11:31 AM

I haven't done anything with this website in a LONG time but....Snuffer Ring:

http://webpages.charter.net/jakekohl/howto/snuffer_ring.htm
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/11/05 01:06 PM

in his spare time, jake also makes tennis racket heads
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/11/05 01:20 PM

Kris: There was some talk about this in the F-18 forum a while back. F-18 forum
Posted By: Dan Berger

Try a Hooter! - 10/11/05 01:28 PM

I thought about the spin, but I really like hooters (sorry, I had to say it). You can sail upwind until about 8-10 mph and downwind like a spinnaker. They furl, so with a quick yank of a line, they are gone. No expensive snuffer and no stuffing into a bag.

Rick has a section on this site dedicated to them: Rick's Hooter store

Also, check out:
Hooter info

You will not be class legal, but I think it is the way to go.

Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Try a Hooter! - 10/11/05 02:03 PM

Hooters are uber-cool! Especially if you live in a low-wind area where you can use that extra area upwind. But as far as I know, only Rick are able to sail them downwind at a speed similar to spi's?

The 60 foot tris also use spi's on furlers, but I think they generate a bit more virtual wind than we do on beachcats
I dont know if flatter shapes, suitable for a furler, has been tried on T's but I imagine so..
Posted By: Krisu13

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/11/05 03:39 PM

Rolf,

Thanks for the good link. It looks like simple ring attached to the spinnaker pole will do great job.


So here is the question: Why people go through several different designs?
Could some one comment on the advantages and disadvantages of different snuffer designs? From http://www.funcat-sailing.de/Tornado/sitespisysteme.htm

Personally I like the one with red bag. And that is the one that I was trying to duplicate.

Kris

Posted By: MauganN20

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/11/05 06:59 PM

Quote
Thanks for the good link. It looks like simple ring attached to the spinnaker pole will do great job.


Well, simply speaking yes, thats what a snuffer is. Getting it to work WELL (especially with all the crap thats up front on the N6.0) is another more complicated thing altogether.
Posted By: PTP

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/12/05 06:30 PM

Ok, looks like I am going to go through with this.
Anyone have any good pics of where to put the hardware on the 6.0 (I have looked at the I20 owner's manual on the Perf cats web site, and it helps somewhat, but not totally). For example, what do you do with the pole and the bridle foil?
Posted By: pitchpoledave

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/12/05 07:57 PM

I have a 14' pole and I cut a slot in the end, and rest the slot on the dolphin striker. Stops the pole from rotating.
The other end of the pole I just tied under the foil. The foil is a great place to attach it..
I also drilled holes in my bowes and attached line from there to the end of the pole, and put some prebend in it. I didn't feel that attaching to the bridle attachment points on the hull gave me the right angle to keep the pole down.

The blocks I have on my front beam...The angle seems right. I tried them on the shroud and it was wrong. I haven't had a chance to get you pics yet..this weekend though..
Posted By: pitchpoledave

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/12/05 08:03 PM

here is a pic. look closely and you can see the blocks on the front beam..

http://westlakesailingclub.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=2005ld&id=HPIM1795
Posted By: ksurfer2

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/12/05 08:07 PM

Here is a pic of my 6.0. I have an older generation spin that sheets to the rear beam. The spin pole ties to the underside of the bridal foil and then attatches to the bows. Right now I am tramp launching the chute from a bag, but hope to upgrade to a snuffer in the future.

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Posted By: PTP

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/12/05 08:13 PM

Thanks for the pic. How high up on the mast did you mount the halyard block, did you use a bale to pass the halyard through to prevent rotating the mast in the wrong direction? What hardware did you use to attach the pole to the foil?
Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/13/05 12:27 AM

We just went thru adding a spin to our 6.0. It also was an old or ex-worrel chute in the 420 sf range and it sheeted to the back beam. We bought a used spin pole, chute, snuffer head and some miscellaneous parts. Then, added the rest. I have some pictures somewhere. The tramp is and will be a mess. Jake provided a diagram on how to run a one line halyard-tack-snuffer line and that is how we have done it. Rick Bliss told me to not locate the halyard height any higher than 28’ I think. We followed the NE Chute spec in case we decided to upgrade to a new NE Chute. I’ll follow this up, right now I have to keep my kids from killing each other in the shower!
Posted By: wildtsail

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/13/05 01:02 AM

I sail with the N.E. chute w/ snuffer but I have a worrell chute with all needed accessories laying around. Drop me an email.
-Todd Riccardi
Nacra 6.0 #308
Posted By: Acat230

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/13/05 01:34 AM

I have a beautiful Smyth spinnaker that was built for my Prindle 19. I used it in two races and when I sold the boat, the new owner did not want it. It's been sitting in the bag stored in a closet in my house for several years waiting to get used. The size would suit a 6.0 quite well and if you are looking to get a great deal, this would be it.

I'll be at the Area D Alter Cup Elims in Pensacola on Nov 5-6. Let me know if you are interested and I'll bring it with me. I also have a pole for this rig too made from an aluminum windsurfing mast.

Bob Hodges
e-mail- bobh79@bellsouth.net
Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:14 AM

picture for PTP ref PM

Note Halyard location; its way up there; Main sheet always on!

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:16 AM

Pic post for PTP PM



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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:17 AM

Pic for PTP PM

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:19 AM

another

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:19 AM

Oh just another

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:21 AM

well

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:22 AM

that the cleanest I've ever seen this trampoline

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:23 AM

halyard/snuffer turning block under tramp

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:25 AM

last one until sunday

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:37 AM

okay found a couple more

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:43 AM

this is addicting

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:44 AM

flyin now! Shows overkill attachment of pole/striker/bowfoil

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:48 AM

Tack line about a foot or two to long

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 02:50 AM

okay last one. Read as: computer upstairs beer downstairs

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 03:06 AM

resupplied and what do you know

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/14/05 12:03 PM

I see that some of those pics didn't come thru, they must be to big, sorry.
Posted By: jes58

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/15/05 01:05 AM

I have been lurking for a while on this thread, and I have a few questions regarding retrofitting a spinnaker to my NACRA. Mine is a 5.8NA, and I think the applications are somewhat similar.

First I had noted in some of the photographs that the bridal foil has been raised, I understand why this is done, how much I should look to raise mine. Also will I need to shorten the forestay or the shrouds? If I shorten the forestay, will I need to modify the jib?

As for the pole, I am thinking of going aluminum, anyone want to talk me out of this?

Appreciate any help
Posted By: PTP

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/15/05 01:10 AM

I just picked up a carbon fiber pole from Key Sailing. I am on my way to spindom. I will add pictures (if anyone is interested... ok... even if anyone ISN'T interested )
Posted By: PTP

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/15/05 01:21 AM

Jes-
call around and look for a used windsurfer mast- I got mine for 100$ (which, I guess isn't cheap -in the strictest sense- but this is much less than the 350 or so they cost new). I am not sure the aluminum is better/worse than carbon fiber however. I don't see any reason why you would have to shorten the forestay/shrouds or have to modify the jib.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/15/05 03:01 AM

Wind surfer masts taper. You want the tip of your pole to stay put relative to the hoist position so that your spin luff remains constant. The tapered tip will probably not be stiff enough.
For a 6.0 pole you have to carry the pole fairly low with the front foil in place. So to keep the pole in column and not have it invert you need a dolphin striker. Secondly, If the pole isn't stiff enough it will take on a really interesting S shape at the tip.

I have seen too solutions. Scace purchased two carbon windsurfer poles and butted them together for his Tornado pole... the end diameter was then large enough to be stiff.

(Tornado's carry the pole fairly high without a front foil.)

Murphey on his P19 with a Nacra foil added the dolphin striker to keep from towing his bows in when he preloaded the pole. Then when he discovered that the tip was too soft he just kept laying up carbon cloth around the pole end to stiffen it up.

Take Care
Mark
Posted By: jes58

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/15/05 06:48 PM

yes I would be interested in your pix, what you needed for parts and were you got them etc... I have considered getting the pole and the mainbeam mount from the factory (al la I20), and going aftermaket on every thing else.

thanks

Posted By: PTP

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/15/05 09:08 PM

I think the pole will be stiff enough with a dolphin striker and attachments to the forestay bridle attachments and to the tips of the bows.
Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:26 PM

I was going to post 30 or 40 pics but each are apparently to big. Suggestions?
Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:30 PM

Maybe some of them will fit

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:35 PM

Nice to see that the grass was in focus in that last one:)

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:36 PM

;

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:39 PM

:

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:42 PM

'

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:45 PM

"

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:47 PM

Since I did such a nice job recognizing the minimum distance my little camera will focus at: 28' from base of mast

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:51 PM

@

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:57 PM

Hmmm, I thought N6.0 mast were 31.5 feet 31'-7". Nice shoes for aCat sailor! Whoops a-class cat sailor. Sterling, thanks for helping and providing the tape measure.

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:59 PM

Doulber from clew of spin

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 12:59 PM

doubler

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:01 PM

Tack line (Green) / Halyard (White with green and red fleck)

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:06 PM

#

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:09 PM

snuff head, Yellow Line holds sock in place, Flange on snuffer head is to small and flexible.

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:11 PM

over done attachment to foil

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:13 PM

hiking straps underside of Tramp

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:18 PM

Snuffer line coming thru end of bag. This is the "Duct Tape" version of doing this detail. There are better ways. Trying to prevent spin being snuffer thru the end of hte bag. It really slow with sip dragging in the water and the snuffer patch that came thru won't easily go back thru by pulling harder on the halyard. Crew, the culprit that pulled it thru in the first place, ends up in the water stuffing it back in. Others have suggest an x trap with groomet for the line to run thru or just close the end of hte bag and run the snuffer line thru a grommet in the side of the bag.

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:21 PM

Halyard/snuffer line turning block

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:23 PM

spin lock halyard cleat. Note wedge to help with mounting to the round beam.

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:26 PM

Jib cross wire removed, Nice. Spin sheet turning block.

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:46 PM

Located inboard helps reduce lazy skipper butt cleating during jibe

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:49 PM

spin sheet block, on/off ratchet, note cam cleat for sheet doubler on back of beam

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:50 PM

%

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Posted By: Chris9

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 01:54 PM

The boys that helped move her forward off the trailer, turn her over and back over and A55word back on the trailer, Alec and Chad

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Posted By: arbo06

Re: adding a spin to N6.0 - 10/17/05 10:27 PM

H-20 with Homemade pole.

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