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Raising Mast Solo

Posted By: jrg

Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 02:41 AM

I know there have been a ton of posts about raising the mast solo on trailered boats. Has anyone figured out a way to use a portable winch to help? Seems to me if it could be anchored to a tow vehicle somehow, you could walk the mast up while operting the winch with a remote... See link below...

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...&productId=200315453&R=200315453

Any thoughts?

JRG
Posted By: jmhoying

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 02:54 AM

I use a hand cranked winch to raise my P18 mast, so it should work just fine. An electric winch might be a little overkill, as it doesn't take much effort to crank it up by hand. I use a "EZ Step" pole.
Jack
Posted By: Jake

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 04:02 AM

I looked at that some time ago - but I found that most electric winches have painfully slow retrieval speeds. You'll be standing under and stabilizing that mast for a while with the remote in your teeth.
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 04:55 AM

I'm glad you brought this subject up because I've seen the answer. It'll take a few days to post the PIC's but it will be worth the wait.

I'd could explain how it works but a PIC is worth ....

It does require the boat be backwards on the trailer.
Posted By: arbo06

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 05:43 AM

How about using your mainsheet and tackle to raise the mast?
Posted By: bullswan

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 12:03 PM

I thought of using a portable winch mounted on the trailer rear crossbar right below the rear beam of the boat. I would have run the winch line along side the catbox up to a series of pulleys, one down low on the mast support post and one up higher. Then it would work just as it does now with someone operating the hand crank mounted on the mast support while I walk the mast up from the rear. The problem I saw was exactly as Jake describes. Painfully slow retrieve. Otherwise, I like it alot.

Greg
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 12:49 PM

Alright, here's a basic drawing of what I'm talking about. This thing raises and holds the mast so all you have to do is push it foward a few feet.

Take down is just the reverse. And........

after the mast is up you can disconnect the winch and attach some shock cord and use it to chuck pumpkins at passing boats.

I'll still post the PIC in a couple days.


Attached picture 61510-mast raiser.jpg
Posted By: bvining

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 01:40 PM

Nice idea on the mast rasing....

If you angle your lever up at the hinge you would get more lift and might even get the mast to nearly vertical. Or you can add a 90 deg arm to the end (at the top of the mast) or both...

I always tie my trap handles to a rope I keep tucked inside the main beam - this way the mast can only move in one plane, so if a gust hits the mast, you wont be fighting it to keep it stable.

Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 02:34 PM

My proportions are way off in the drawing. The chock at the end of the lever was large to keep the mast from falling off to the side when up. Also the lever was the front mast caddie for trailing. Both ends of the lever were padded.
Posted By: Isotope235

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 03:46 PM

How heavy is your mast? Many people with very heavy masts use a gin-pole and block-and-tackle to help with stepping.

I wouldn't think that most beach-cat masts weigh that much though. It's realatively easy to step an Isotope mast single-handed, for example. All it takes are a couple of eyestraps mounted on the front crossarm. Put the mast base on the step; attach the shrouds to the eyestraps; and walk the mast up. The shrouds keep the mast centered as you go. When it's upright, move the shrouds off the eyestraps and onto the chainplates. If there is adverse wind, or if you are otherwise concerned about stability, you can always tie off a halyard or trapeze wire to the rear crossarm. That would keep the mast secure while you walk around moving the shrouds.

Eric (Isotope 42)
Posted By: jmhoying

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 07:20 PM

Here's a couple photos of my mast being raised (P18) with a hand crank winch and a EZ-Step gin pole. The trap wires are attached to the outside of the front cross beam to keep the mast centered during the process.
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Jake

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 07:33 PM

Mike,

That idea is neat as hell!

Jake
Posted By: Kennethsf

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 08:57 PM

super, the best I've seen ever. Simpel but effective
Posted By: jrg

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 09:53 PM

Mike, I also think that's a great idea. I wonder what the length of the support would have to be for it to work.

I sail a H16, so the mast is pretty light... Maybe you guys are right. I'll just stick to an old mainsheet mounted to the trailer. I didn't really consider the slow retreival speed of the winch, but now I see that it pulls only about 6 feet per minute! I figure that from the mast base to the mast tang is about 16 feet, that means that you'd have to pull roughly 20 feet of cable to get the mast up... You would be standing there for about 4 minutes with "the remote in your teeth".

jrg
Posted By: Jake

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 10:12 PM

Mike,

What about this way?

[Linked Image]

Attached picture 61545-Graphic1.jpg
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 10:35 PM

Jake,

call me unedjumaketed, but I fail to see how that would put eh mast straight up unless the rotating arm would be long enough to push the mast forward when it is parallel to the ground.
Posted By: hobienick

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 10:37 PM

As long as the winch or the top end of the gin pole is about 3 feet or more above the mast when it is laying down, the trailer winch will work. My mast support on my trailer is about 3' taller than the tramp. I use just the winch and no gin pole. The first few cranks are tough but doable. If I have crew I just lift the mast up over my head while they crank the winch.
Posted By: hrtsailor

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/16/05 11:05 PM

jrg,

If you are raising the mast on an H-16 you don't need a winch or any other device. I am 71 years old and raise my mast solo with no trouble at all. I tie a line to the jib halyard (just to extend it a few feet) and tie it to the bridle. I put a simple tripod at the rear to hold the mast off the traveler track. I then just raise the mast, lean into it as I reach down and undo the jib halyard, pull the halyard tight to hold the mast up, and re-cleat it. Then I get down and fasten the forestay.

Howard
Posted By: Jake

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 12:56 AM

Quote
Jake,

call me unedjumaketed, but I fail to see how that would put eh mast straight up unless the rotating arm would be long enough to push the mast forward when it is parallel to the ground.


It won't put it all the way - but would get it close enough to just push it up...or even pull it the rest of the way with the forestay while you're up front to pin it.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 01:02 AM

Howard,
This is how I used to step the mast of my Apollo 16. This method works very well. I wasn't sure how it would work on a beachcat because the mast is much heavier. Has anyone else used the jib halyard? This seems to me to be the easiest and doesn't require any additional equipment, blocks, or lines.
One issue I have with my Nacra 5.2 is that the mast does not have any way for me to capture the bottom (foot) of the mast. There is no place for me to lock it; no pin, no holes or anything. It just sits on the ball. So when I am raising the mast, I have to have someone, who is very brave, hold down the base of the mast until I get it to about 45 degrees. When I am lowering the mast, the very brave person holds it down until I get it to about 30 degrees and then it always pops out. If I have not gotten far enough back, the masthead drops hard. Luckily, I do this on the beach so it lands in the sand. Any ideas short of going out and buying a new base for my mast?

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2
Posted By: hrtsailor

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 01:36 AM

Rob,

An H-16 uses a pin in a link that keeps the mast under control. I would think that Nacra had some similar device but I don't know much about them. There was a system on the market that allowed you to lengthen one shroud to more easily right an H-16. Part of that system included a cable that somehow kept the mast from coming out of its socket when the shroud was loose. There may be some way to adapt that concept to control your mast.

I can't take credit for the jib halyard idea for holding the mast up. I read that in an old Hobie Hotline years ago. I have been raising the mast solo for so long that I refuse help when offered because it is easier to stick to my routine.

I'm not familiar with the Apollo 16 but assume that it is a monohull.

Howard
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 03:07 AM

Quote
If you are raising the mast on an H-16 you don't need a winch or any other device. I am 71 years old and raise my mast solo with no trouble at all. I tie a line to the jib halyard (just to extend it a few feet) and tie it to the bridle. I put a simple tripod at the rear to hold the mast off the traveler track. I then just raise the mast, lean into it as I reach down and undo the jib halyard, pull the halyard tight to hold the mast up, and re-cleat it. Then I get down and fasten the forestay.



Howard, I guess the point here is the need to simply and safely raise-lower the mast no matter the boat. I'm sure it would help open our world to more people.

The one thing about the H-16 when raising it by yourself is the trap wire shock cords. Since they are free to float around under the tramp they wind up at the back as you start to raise. So not only are you raising the mast weight you wind up having to deal with the shock cord trying to pull it back down. Plus they tend to get caught on stuff.

So before you start, get something to hold the shock cords around or in front of the shrouds.


Again, my drawing is not accurate. The base strut was more vertical. So when it was cranked up the whole thing was almost straight up.

Jake I'm not sure if that would work as easy. I think yours lifting closer to the base would have more load on it and the chock would have to slide a greater distance on the mast and pivot to maintain side control of the mast. Also the spreaders might get in the way as the chock slides up the mast. Looks like it will chuck pumpkins though.

I'm a big believer in towing the boat backwards. For those removing your rudders anyway then why not? It's just easier to raise the mast. I know some people are afraid they'll drop it on their car. With this system that problem is almost eliminated.

Jack, your set-up works good, however you have set up and haul that stuff around with you.
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 03:28 AM

Quote
Howard,
This is how I used to step the mast of my Apollo 16. This method works very well. I wasn't sure how it would work on a beachcat because the mast is much heavier. Has anyone else used the jib halyard? This seems to me to be the easiest and doesn't require any additional equipment, blocks, or lines.
One issue I have with my Nacra 5.2 is that the mast does not have any way for me to capture the bottom (foot) of the mast. There is no place for me to lock it; no pin, no holes or anything. It just sits on the ball. So when I am raising the mast, I have to have someone, who is very brave, hold down the base of the mast until I get it to about 45 degrees. When I am lowering the mast, the very brave person holds it down until I get it to about 30 degrees and then it always pops out. If I have not gotten far enough back, the masthead drops hard. Luckily, I do this on the beach so it lands in the sand. Any ideas short of going out and buying a new base for my mast?

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2


Rob, some Mystere's use line to hold the base in place. They have a pad eye on the front of the mast near the base and two more on the main beam on either side of the base. The line is tied to one eye on the beam,passed through the eye on the mast and then to the other eye on the beam. This holds the base in place.

The first couple times I used this set up I was nervous becaused I always had the pin on other boats but it does work good. I'll get you a PIC if you like.

But, instead of drilling 6 more holes in you boat, how much is a base for your mast?
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 03:29 AM

The Apollo 16 is a monohull with a much lighter mast. I actually used the furling jib to hold the mast up. I would apply some downhaul to the jibwire and then connect the forestay. I think I could easily do it with the Nacra if it wasn't for the base not being locked down.

Jake,
Somehow, my simple brain is not grasping how the drawings in previous posts are going to lift the mast. It seems to me they are just going to pull the mast lower. How is the lift created? I see the directional arrow showing which way the line goes, but it seems to just tighten the mast down.

-Rob V.
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 03:39 AM

Rob, give me a few minutes and I'll post a drawing of the mast being held up.
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 03:58 AM

Here it is.

Attached picture 61564-mast up1.jpg
Posted By: hrtsailor

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 05:41 AM

Mike,

I was referring only to the H-16 which is what the original poster, jrg, owns. The mast is not too heavy and can be lifted by one person pretty easily. The shock cords for the trapeze and the shrouds are not a problem. I used to put the tiller out one way and my paddle out the other to keep them from catching on the frame. I now tie a small line around the shock cords at the front of the tramp to take out some slack and just make sure that the lines and shrouds are not going to hook on the rear of the frame. It just isn't that difficult. I timed how long it took me to set up, ready to launch and I think it was 20 minutes from the time I parked the car.

Howard
Posted By: Jake

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 01:16 PM

With regard to the loading, besides on the cable and the stubby end of the lever, the load is no more than you would experience by lifting the mast yourself. 2" 1/8" wall square tubing would handle that with a huge margin of safety. The spreaders would be an issue and would have to be looked at closely but I think you'll find that with the lever positioned this way you will get much more height out of the system. The lower mast cradle will have to slide more on the mast - but what difference is a little more? You'll just have to put a roller on it anyway (a bow roller with side support). Just a thought.

[Linked Image]

Attached picture 61579-Graphic2.jpg
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 01:51 PM

Howard, I understand what your saying. This topic comes up alot and while most people I've seen don't use anything, if there was some simple and easy way I think more people would use it. Like beach wheels.

Forgive me for assuming but I'm guessing you've been doing this for a while. Compare that to someone 70 that has never done it but wants to. If raising the mast is the only thing that keeps that person on the beach then...

A young lady that sails off the causeway here raises her's with no help. Then there was this guy about 50 who could not get the mast past his head. It was ugly. I know he had a good time sailing but I havent'seen him again and that's a shame.




Posted By: SOMA

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 01:52 PM

Jake, that doesn't look like it would work. The winch end seems so short compared to the mast end, and the mast end being so close to the base seems like it would be a huge amount of weight to push up. I think 2" tubing would bend pretty soon. Plus it you go past the point shown on your diagram the mast would start dropping again. I know my Hobie 18 mast would not go up this way. It seems like you would need more leverage on the pulling end and more thickness on the pushing end.
Posted By: SOMA

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 01:59 PM

Actually, if the strap could go over a roller on the short end, then over an extension of the mast support in the center and then attach to the mast end, so that the strap is pulling up on the tube (like cranes) then I could see it being supported much better.

Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 02:26 PM

Jake, I think there would be a large difference on the mast base. Yours is trying to lift the mast off the base before the mast raises. The other system is more like lifting the mast from the top.

Hey, I just had a thought. How about drilling a small hole in the mast and dropping in a small purple pill???
Posted By: carlbohannon

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 02:26 PM

Quote
One issue I have with my Nacra 5.2 is that the mast does not have any way for me to capture the bottom (foot) of the mast. There is no place for me to lock it; no pin, no holes or anything. It just sits on the ball. So when I am raising the mast, I have to have someone, who is very brave, hold down the base of the mast until I get it to about 45 degrees. When I am lowering the mast, the very brave person holds it down until I get it to about 30 degrees and then it always pops out. If I have not gotten far enough back, the masthead drops hard. Luckily, I do this on the beach so it lands in the sand. Any ideas short of going out and buying a new base for my mast?


The easiest way to handle this is to 1)loop bungees under the front cross beam and attach them to the diamond wire. Use heavy bungee (like the black rubber ones) and make sure they are tight. 2) Tie your trap lines to the front beam. The trap lines have the same pivot point as the mast so they will stay tight as the mast moves. This works like a charm on my Marstrom
Posted By: hrtsailor

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 03:56 PM

Mike,

You're right, I have been doing it for a while but I am 71.

I think there is a mind set that people need to get over. It is not difficult to raise the mast. I saw one fellow disconnect his trailer from the car and try to somehow pull the mast up with a line to his car, driving forward. It was a near disaster. Too many gimmicks and devices just cloud the issue. The best thing is to learn to raise it solo while you have help around in case of problems like fouled shrouds or trap wires. Confidence will grow with practice.

Howard
Posted By: sparky

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 04:35 PM

Rob,

I have seen someone tie a line from the diamond wires or around the downhaul blocks on the mast down to the dolphin striker to keep the mast base in place and on the ball while raising and lowering the mast.
Posted By: hobienick

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 06:06 PM

I agree with Howard. I know he and I discussed this topic earlier this year. Listen to him. An H16 mast doesn't weigh that much. I too have stepped one solo using the method he described.

On the heavier masts you may need some help, but not on the H16.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 06:10 PM

Quote
Jake, I think there would be a large difference on the mast base. Yours is trying to lift the mast off the base before the mast raises. The other system is more like lifting the mast from the top.


Ok, Ok, Ok....but if you look at it, the position of the mast brace is no different than if you were standing on the trampoline raising the mast manually - and the mast wants to come off the ball then too but the pin retains it. You guys just keep telling me it can't be done and I'll actually have to build one!

[Linked Image]
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 06:31 PM

I agree with Jake. If the bottom "brace" is in fact a roller it will work. As soon as you start winching, the fulcrum becomes that bottom roller. As that fulcrum becomes higher and higher on the mast, the lever (mast) has nowhere to go but up!
Posted By: jmhoying

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 07:58 PM

I see that this system could raise the mast up to 45 degrees or so, but not much farther. My question is why would you bother with this setup, when a gin pole would be much quicker and bring the mast all the way up? Just turning the boat around on a trailer would be more work than raising the mast by hand.
For those who raise the mast by hand, that's fine, but I've found added safety for me and my wife by having more control of the process when using the EZ-Step.
Jack
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 11:27 PM

Jack, keep in mind my boat is towed backwards so there no added turning it around.

I should have the disc with PIC of the working model tomorrow.

Howard your right, some people have strange ideas how to get things done and the guy you mention should be up for a Rube Goldberg award.

Jake, keeping in mind they both lift the mast to about the same height, I still think the other one will work better. I might spend some time messing around with both ideas. I have a friend who's quite the fabricator and I'll talk him about making a couple mock ups and have a closer look.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/17/05 11:39 PM

You guys are all forgetting that most mast need to be turned 90 degrees on most boats. I think the spreaders and diamond wires would get in the way.
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 12:02 AM

David your right and that was another point I wanted to make after looking at Jack's set up. I don't think your going to let the small contact point of a roller pressure the side of your mast. With the other system you could use a contoured pad on the end of the lever. It would work with the mast 90'.

The boat I saw this system on was a G-cat 5.7 and that mast has spreaders.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 03:04 AM

Thanks Carl and Les. I'm gonna try the idea of attaching the trap wire to the front beam. I'll tie down the mast base just to be safe.

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2
Posted By: arbo06

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 03:13 AM

I used the solo right for many years with my H21 without any problems. Don't try to re-invent or make cheap short cuts, it will cost you more in the long run.

Currently I just use a winch to raise the mast on the ARC 21. I don't do it solo but if I could train the dog to wind the winch I would be ok. I attach the winch to the spinnaker halyard because it is above the main hound and gives me great leverage and leaves the forestay free to be attached.
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 05:33 PM

What I don't understand is that everyone talks about how the masts have gotten lighter but its seems they are harder to put up. I know I'm older than the average sailor (well I'm over 40) but I've always hopped up on the boat and just stood up the mast and attached the forestay. OK, if you are by your self, set the boat on the ground with the bows in a slight down angle so when the mast is in place it will lean forward and tend to stay up. If there is a breeze then orient the bows downwind. The breeze will help to lift the mast (not hinder you) and will assist in keeping it in place. If you are still concerned about it falling, tie a line to the forestay and loop it under the bridle wires and tie it off to the raised mast. You hop down and attach the forestay to the bridle.

You youngsters just need to get in shape. BTW, no I didn't sail a H14 with a little bitty mast. It was an old TheMightyHobie18 for 15 years then a H20 after that. Unfortunately I can't do that with my Stiletto but it is set up with a gin pole to raise the mast.

Wow is it getting hot in here... I see flames on the horizon. I have my sunblock, I mean flameblock on.

Clayton
S27, H16
Posted By: Mary

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 05:43 PM

The average catamaran sailor IS over 40. And all of them have bad backs from trying to raise their masts without mechanical assistance.
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 06:03 PM

Crap thats us!!! OK, lets see... yeah what the others said, get a winch... or just young crew. Yea, thats it, young crew.

You know as we get older we ramble too.

Clayton
Posted By: hrtsailor

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 09:36 PM

Mary,

You are wrong. I had my bad back long before I got my Hobie.

Howard
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 09:54 PM

Over 40
Back in good condition
Keep the tips rollin'
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/18/05 11:57 PM

25 here

already on painkillers
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo *DELETED* *DELETED* - 11/19/05 01:55 AM

Post deleted by catman
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/19/05 06:45 AM

try again

Attached picture 61719-IMG05A.JPG
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/19/05 06:52 AM

cross my fingers

Attached picture 61720-IMG07A.JPG
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/19/05 06:57 AM

last one

Attached picture 61721-IMG08A.JPG
Posted By: bullswan

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/11/06 12:43 AM

I hate to do this ....resurrecting an old post, but Mike can you tell me what the materials you used and the lengths used for this contraption ? It looks just to good to not try it out. The thing I'm trying to keep in mind in design is that my Nacra mast has to remain on it's side and how the contraption affects/ or is affected, by the diamond wires.
Thanks
Greg

Posted By: Banzilla

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/11/06 01:28 AM

ok, not sure how long the line would have to be, but how about this?

Take a piece of line say 25' with a double block on one end, run the loose end through something high on the mast, for a h16 you could use a shackle or the jib block, and cleat it off at the base of the mast, now, take a double block with a becket and attach it to the bridle wire. Tie one end of a much longer line to the becket than through the block on the first line, back through the lower block back to the upper block and back through the bottom block this would give you a 5:1 you could set this up in as high a ratio as you needed, than run the loose end back over the tramp, take up the slack as you walk the mast up. when the mast is stepped, undo the cleated end of the first line and the block on the bridle and your done.

Just a thought
Sam
Posted By: catman

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/11/06 03:19 AM

Greg,
It's not my contraption. Just something I saw on the beach. However I think you can guesstamate the lengths. The best way might be to pin your mast and determine the lenght from the back of the boat to you spreaders as the chock would need to start below them. You also have to account for clearance at the back of the boat so the arm would be able to swing down without anything in the way.

Remember this thing gets it about half way up. It doesen't put it all the way up. Half isn't bad though. And the last and most important thing is the boat is backwards on the trailer.

I believe the G cat's mast is raised at 90' also. It would most likely stay that way easier (larger flat surface). Of course if you make the chock a little wider and flat it should want to lay at 90.

One other thing about it is the plate's that make up the piviot. Notice it prevents side motion at all points, down,up and on the way up. Very important!

I've seen this rig only once. If he comes out again I'll talk with him about it. Don't hold you breath though.

The lever is a wonderful thing.
Posted By: AzCat

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/13/06 05:12 AM

I have a pretty sturdy mast support and a winch attached to it, up high I have a heavy eye bolt and a single block that the winch rope runs over. I hook the winch to the forestay and use the jib lines to attach to the side stays to stablize the mast side to side and have a short length of rope that I tie the mast down to the support using the downhaul assy. I just crank it up with the winch. so far its working good on my solcat 18.
Posted By: SoggyCheetoh

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/13/06 01:29 PM

instead of attaching the winch line to the forestay attach it to the trap wires. That way you can leave the winch line attached and locked when you get the mast raised. This makes it a piece of cake to attach the forestay to the bridle wires.

Alec
Posted By: hobienick

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/13/06 04:54 PM

If you have a double trap on your boat this will work. I like to use one set of trap wires to stabalize the mast when it is below 45 deg with the trap wires while solo stepping.
Posted By: bullswan

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/16/06 05:01 PM

I need everyones help with this engineering problem.....

I am looking to engineer a "lifting tripod" to lift the Nacra mast just high enough so that it reaches past that critical spot where the winch attached to the forestay will lift it vertically. The challenge has always been to be able to lift the mast solo in a controlled way (so that you could stop and anytime to untangle stays or trapwires that invariably catch on something at the most inopportune time) with very little physical strength necessary.

I think first if I could set the mast on the ball and rest the other end on this tripod contraption that is set up maybe 5 or so feet behind the boat on the trailer, and then second attach the winch line to the forestay, and then third lift the mast with a pole that slides up thru the center of the tripod high enough (say 10 feet?)and have it stay there while I could walk to winch to begin cranking I think I would be golden. It would be cool if the lifting action on the tripod could be a winch-type crank too rather than brute force but how to do that completely escapes me.

So what do you think? Maybe someone already does this?

Maybe it would be easier to just engineer a gin pole to change the angle and reduce the amount of lift required to get the forestay winch action to lift rather than pull?

Getting it up is one thing.....and what normally everyone seems to worry about in these discussions but what I want this to do as well, is make it easier and safer coming down. I'm not sure if the Gin pole arrangement qualifies on that account.

Your thoughts?

I am going to try the boat reversed lever idea already posted in this thread but this tripod approach means less changes to the current system.

Thanks
Greg
Posted By: Mary

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 02:15 AM

Jennifer Lindsay built a tripod exactly like what you are talking about, so she can raise her mast herself on her F16 and her A-Cat. Her user name on this forum is jennifert. Send her a private message and ask her how she did it. She is an engineer, I believe.

However, I would think a gin pole would work best for both raising and lowering the mast. I don't know whether any E-Z Steps are still available through some sources, because the manufacturer has stopped making them.

Another way, and maybe simpler than a gin pole, is to have a pole (preferably square tube) that attaches to the trailer tongue right below the front side of the main beam of the boat.

In order to design it, you need to have the mast up in the first place, with the boat on the trailer.

Stand on the boat and reach up the mast. At a point that is as high as possible that you can comfortably reach, mark a place to install a small eye-strap on the front of the mast (or the side of your mast if you have to raise it rotated sideways).

Make your square tube the length that will reach from the trailer tongue to that eye strap.

In the top of the square tube install a captive sheave (that will keep the rope from hopping off it).

So, once you have put the eye strap on the mast and have your pole with the sheave, you attach the pole to the trailer, you run the winch line through the sheave at the top of the pole and attach the hook at the end of your winch line to the eye strap (or tie the end of the line to the eye strap if you don't have a hook). And you ALSO have to be sure to tie the pole securely to the center of the main beam so the pole cannot move forward or side to side.

Then you just winch the mast up or down. You can use the trapeze wires to stabilize the mast from swinging side to side -- they can be tied or attached somehow to the ends of the main beam, which is the pivot point. Or, if you have a helper, one person can winch while the other just stands on the tramp and keeps the mast from swinging.

I hope this makes sense. It works really well -- and EASY.

The only problem is that the pole has to be fairly long to reach from the trailer tongue to where you can reach on the mast. The one I had was a two-part telescoping pole that collapsed shorter on the trailer tongue for storage when trailering and telescoped up for mast-raising/lowering.

P.S. If your trailer tongue doesn't go straight back that far, you would have to bolt on a crossways piece on the trailer frame for mounting the "mast erector" pole. Oh, well, there are lots of possibilities, and most of you guys are more creative than I.
Posted By: jbecker

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 04:54 AM

I've built a tripod using three telescoping extension poles, the kind they sell for using with paint rollers. It works well for holding the mast at whatever height is convenient for whatever it is you are doing. It makes a great heavy-duty adjustable tripod.

I'm not that keen on using the tripod for single handed mast raising for a few of reasons. First, if the tripod is set high and close enough to the back of the boat to get a good angle, there a chance of a one of many dangling cables snagging the tripod and tipping it over into the back of the boat. Dinged a transom that way. Second, at low angles there is a lot of foward pull on the boat. I have my tie-downs arranged to resist this, but I'm not happy with the amount of forward force on the mast step ball. Third, since my mast must be turned sideways at low angles, lifting with the forestay or a trapeze wire does the wrong thing. So, this year I'll be working on a gin pole.

Just some issue to consider. A tripod may be all you need.
Posted By: Rusty

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 04:17 PM

Jeff, can you explain how you attached the poles together at the top? are the bottom ends on some sort of keeper line to avoid them spreading out under load?

Rusty
N5.8
Posted By: jbecker

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 05:05 PM

I think the best bet is to look at a standard camera tripod. One way to make this would be to cut out a circular piece of plywood and use a pair of angle brackets and a bolt to make a hinge point for each leg. You can then attach a V-shaped mast cradle to the top. Yes, you do need some sort of keeper strings. If the top is too wobbly, you may also need a vertical rod of some sort down the middle attached via keeper strings to each leg. Standard tripods usually use folding bars of some sort for this, but strings will do the job as long as you spread the legs until the strings are taut.
Posted By: hobienick

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 05:32 PM

Greg,

I forgot what kind of boat you have, but if I remember correctly it's a Narca. So, what I do may not work exactly for you, but I think it wil help steer you in a more simple direction.

My fore mast support on my trailer is 60" high and mounts to the trailer tounge. I have a Trailex so I ordered the long mast support. I did this initially so I could car top my kayaks and bikes while towing the boat using it for a mast stepping system was a bonus. Anyway, at the top of the mast support, mount a sheave (an old winch drum works great) and mount teh boat winch below it at a convenient height. If you are tall, you can mount the winch up high, but it doesn't work well for dragging the boat onto the trailer that high. Basically, you want the sheave at least 24" above the mast step so it is effective. The higher the better. If I am alone, I use a step ladder to support the top of my mast. The ladder fits nicely under the boat on the trailer. If I have someone with me one of us holds the mast above our heads while the other cranks it up. I use a set of trap wire to steady the mast when it is at a low angle. I tie the off to the front cross bar. After about 45 deg the shrouds can take over.

I try to keep it a simple as possible and use components that can be used for other things as well (like a winch to step the mast and drag the boat onto the trailer).

I have seen lots of fancy systems to step masts out there. Most are too complex and too $$$ to be worthwhile.

I hope this helped somewhat.
Posted By: tshan

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 06:51 PM

Quote
I have seen lots of fancy systems to step masts out there. Most are too complex and too $$$ to be worthwhile.


I use a 6 foot step ladder, fairly stable with the mast rotated 90 degrees for Nacra or 180 degrees for Blade. Park downhill, use a forward trapeze handle while pinning the forestay and make sure the base is pinned and/or tied down. Keep it simple.
Posted By: Andinista

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 10:05 PM

How about this one:


Attached picture 73521-cat1.JPG
Posted By: mbounds

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 11:03 PM

Quote
How about this one:


That's not a mast stepping device - it's a house window removal device!
Posted By: bullswan

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/17/06 11:05 PM

Quote
How about this one:


Only thing wrong I can see is: Your sails aren't attached yet!

One question: How fast do you drive away so the knot comes loose from either the window or the mast?

Thanks to everyone.......
I'd like to try Mary's suggestion but I need to extend my tongue back towards the rear of the trailer to give the pole something to rest on. Might still modify the trailer to accomodate that since it seems rather foolproof.
Nick, I appreciate your thought process and yes, I have the Nacra. I'm not sure of the ladder in general terms just because they always seem stable in two directions but not in ALL directions. At least, that's been my experience. That's why I favor the tripod, Jeff. I think the tripod that extends upward and locks in place gives you time to see what is going to catch (shrouds etc.) and fix it AND it gets the mast raised past that point when the forces raise it and not simply put pressure on the mast ball laterally.

Raising this mast safely and easily SOLO is a real challenge for me. I won't let it beat me.

Thanks again,
Greg
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 04/18/06 12:15 AM

Quote
How about this one:
Is that from Extreme Makeover: Home Edition?
Posted By: erice

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/26/07 11:46 AM

hi all,
winter now and i have to get my nacra 5.2 off the beach or it could get crushed by snow
as i'm just about always by myself and don't have a trailer or captive mast base i've been thinking about ways to raise and lower my mast, once a season, solo

decided to try the "tip the boat over method"

pic attached

1. - set up a 5 foot open ladder by the centerboard trunk of the hull going up
- put life-jacket on top to prevent scratching.
- lift hull to about 6 foot high, balance point, and bring ladder under hull, lower onto lifejacket

2. - go around the other side, position 4 foot steps near spreader
- pull mast and boat over balance point and rest mast on top of steps

3. - unhook fore-stay at bridle

4. - as lower stay is now supporting mast/boat upper stay should be slack, unhook it

5. - this past i cheated and had 2 people for but the solo plan would be to use some rope to tie the mast fore and aft to the lowest parts of the beams so it doesn't pivot around the last stay wire during the next hull lift
- then go back over other side and pull upper hull back over the balance point and lower back onto life-jacket again.
- mast should remain on 4 foot steps. go back around and pull mast base off nylon ball , lay mast down and unhook remaining lower stay, lift hull off life-jacket, push ladder aside and lower hull to sand again for beam breakdown
Posted By: erice

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/26/07 11:47 AM

pic attached THIS time

Attached picture 125863-solomasttakedown.JPG
Posted By: Andinista

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/26/07 02:15 PM

Erice, my mast base (home made) is not captive. It is basically a cilinder with a half spheric hole that fits the ball. There is a critical angle above which the base will remain on the ball. That ladder could be a good support support to ensure you don´t go below that angle, either for raising or for lowering. I always use a safety line in case it pops out, but I proceed that way. Even with a lower support: the mast cradle of my trailer, which is probably too low. If the beach has a slope (as usually), the bows should be pointing towards the water. That way the mast will rest on the shrouds and you will be able to attach or detach the forestay yourself.
If there is nothing to use as a support, I ask somebody to help me get started, holding the mast from the tip and walking towards me, to get a better starting angle. To lower it, having someone to receive it is more dangerous, sometimes I just let it touch the sand, it will pop out of the ball and the safety line will work, but it goes down smoothly enough (you won´t be able to hold it though, it will fall down). Last time I did it towards the water, I asked my wife to detach the forestay. It´s a good opportunity to check if the mast is still watertight. Make sure that there are no kids around and also do it after disassembling the steering. And stay on the tramp, it´s not a good idea to walk on the sterns, the boat will want to sit on the sterns and raise the bows. (Well, mine is a 5.0, not a 5.2, there might be differences regarding the last issue)
Posted By: erice

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/26/07 10:11 PM

thanks Andinista, will try many different ways of raising the mast solo to get a system going

i've been avoiding anything to do with walking on the tramp so far as most of it's stitching has gone and i was waiting for this winter to sort it out
Posted By: JoeLeonard

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/27/07 01:25 AM

Ok...you guys are making this WAYYYYYYY too complicated. There is a VERY simple solution to raising a mast singlehanded....

....just get an A-cat!!! ;^) (sorry...couldn't help it....been hangin' around the F16 crowd!! ;0) )
Posted By: arbo06

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/27/07 01:27 AM

I raise my ARC21 (33ft) mast solo all of the time, crew is always late. I have rigged a gin pole using a trailer mounted winch. My biggest Ah Ha at this time is to use the spi halyard vs the forstay for hoisting, this leaves the forstay free to adjust as needed. Pics available for 5 bucks.
Posted By: arbo06

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/27/07 01:28 AM

I love that name.....
Posted By: Brian_Mc

Re: Raising Mast Solo - 11/27/07 04:36 AM

LOL!
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