Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?

Arguments over at "Sailing Anarchy" say that it screws up the boat class and general public interest in the style it is portrayed on T.V. Sailing is a "Doing Sport " not a "Watching sport"..... The boats themselves are a spectacle to watch on the whole ,I think most people feel it out of reach,in time and money. And you end up with an equestrian attitude towards the sport...My2cents........ Bob.G.

IMO we might want to suggest something more akin to the french "raids" (or the arcepeligo (SP)) type races and use Tornado's and 49ers - afterall the other boats are boring to watch. Start at 08:00 and sail 60 miles for the 49ers and 100miles for the T's. Add some proper Navigation where by the course is not published till 1 hr before the start etc. Afterall, people watch the 15,000M and that is just around a track.

BUT critically, the venues chosen must be windy places!

Make the racing close and dangerous >:)


Why do you think people pay hundreds of dollars per ticket to watch cars go fast in circles?

I am in accord of what you are saying Scooby, but I do not like the idea of pulling it from the 'olympics,I did however agree with the comment( on the S.A) of "More than one boat from each country". As far as watching running 15k's and the like .Running is a very introspective sport(activity).It's the mind against the body to make it go the distance. Everyone can relate to it .Sailing is like going into space,"Still"! for some people. The Olympics gives sailing status but if it is pulled would that make it more friendly in public eye and would the market change to make it more of an Extreme sport. Hey look what happen when they decided to drop the slinky and the hula-hoop from international games.Everybody got one.

I thought Scalelectric (slot cars) made auto racing popular. Maugan you are also correct but you would think that wherever there is water that you would have the same fanatacism that you have on land and whole genre of players behind it. Car racing is a very high ticket sport but it has developed a following because of how everyone has a car like most everyone can run or did run.Would car racing make it in the olympics it could be a future solar powered event. Just lettin' it fly. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and may your God go with you! bob g.aquote]Make the racing close and dangerous >:)


Why do you think people pay hundreds of dollars per ticket to watch cars go fast in circles?
[/quote]

I think part of the problem is that people still don't understand who is winning 1/2 the time.

If it's a long distance race, so from A, around the lighthouse at B, across the bay to the fort at C, back across the bay to the pier at D, then to the marker bouy at E etc. People (to a greater extent) will know who is winning. Also make it more than one boat per country, afterall, you (IIRC) still have to throw the qualifying distance to enter the Olly Discuss, mayke it a similar thing. Problem is how do you do it ? The IOC are trying to reduce the expensive sports (because some countries don't have the finances) so sailing is always at a dis-advantage as the kit is fairly expensive (excepting horses !!!!!!!!!!).

May I suggest F18 or Tornado oval-racing.
Including pit-stop for mainsail-change and letting the water out of the hulls.

Adopt the complete Formula1/A1-GP scenario.

That is : including the pitbabes.

But how exciting is sail distance racing to watch live? Not many lead changes take place. Over the course of a 6 or 8 hour Tybee leg, the lead doesn't change more than 2 or 3 times (usually not that much) and I think you wouldn't gain a whole lot of interest unless you cram a LOT of racing into a 30 minute clip.

X squillion people watch F1 and there are no lead changes !

I think that if we want to make sailing more exciting and spectator and TV friendly, we have to make it look more like motocross. Have short courses in very close to shore (and to heck with the shifty winds).

Have lots of fast reaching and lots of crowded, crash-and-burn mark roundings. Forget all the nuances of rules and tactics -- just pure boat speed and excitement. Have a crowded starting line with a reaching start and a short reach to the first rounding mark, so everybody gets there together, just like motocross.

From there you can have your weather leg and downwind leg if you want, and you can set it as marks to port or marks to starboard, depending on where the wind is coming from. Either the windward mark or the leeward mark will be inshore (depending upon the wind direction), but the finish should ALWAYS be back at the starting point, right near shore where spectators can see it close up. And if the whole course is short, you can have it two times around or three times around, depending upon wind conditions. This gives spectators on shore and media a lot more opportunity for filming each race during the most exciting portions of it.

If the course is set up so that the race starts on a reach and finishes on a reach, so much the better from the spectator standpoint. Then the boats can fly hulls and look spectacular coming in to the finish, just like the motocross guys do their twists in the air when coming in to the finish.

This kind of thing was done effectively with the Formula 40 racing and is now being done with the Volvo Extremes.

We have to get less serious and elitist about sailing and make it look like more fun and easier for the public to understand.

Reaching is the fastest, most exciting point of sail, and that is what the spectators on shore want to see. The "chess game" aspect of sailing, with all the attendant rules and tactics, is not media or spectator friendly.

I think we can still have all that on other parts of the course but also have very exciting starts and finishes along shore for the benefit of the spectators.

Throw a figure 8 course in there to "liven" things up for the spectators. Nothing like 30 boats reaching at high speed on opposite tacks at the cross...

Whatever. The idea is to be able to make it easily viewable from shore by spectators and media. This makes it far less expensive for the media to cover the sailing events, since that seems to be the big issue as far as keeping sailing in the Olympics. Right now they have to do their coverage by helicopter or by boat. It is very hard on camera equipment to do it by boat (salt air and salt spray is not good) and very expensive to do it by helicopter. And, of course, helicopters can't get down close because they capsize the boats.

If the event can be covered from shore, there will be no excuses for not covering it.

P.S. The recent change in the way they are going to score the events is definitely not the answer.

I think Mary is right, sailing is too complex for regular people without a sailing background. If it is to be popular on TV, rules and tactics need to be grossly simplified. More "crash and burn" is also required.

However, the real question is wether sailing should change to adapt to TV, or do we want to keep sailing as it is and be dropped from the olympics? I dont think we can have both in the long term..

Personally, I would prefer sailing to stay as it is, and not adapt itself to TV. I would like sailing to be for sailors, and if that means dropping out of the olympics, so be it. I dont think the increased profesionalism in the olympic classes neccesarily promotes the sport. I dont think MNA's and ISAF will have the same view, so the sport as we know it will probably change a lot in the next years.

That's why F1 Sucks......it's BORING!!!!

I have sailed in a Figure 8 Cat race, that was fun, and it was run close to shore so the beach lizards could watch!!

Problem with the crash+burn racing (and damage) is that people spend ages tuning their boats before the ollies; so who is going to finance the extra costs (IOC trying to reduce costs) of the sailors bring (maybe) 5 boats and 10 masts with them...(and having to spend the extra time ensuring that all 5 boats are set up exactly the same).

Also, people will get hurt!

In motocross you just take another bike of the back of the trailer......

The current ISAF policy is to gradually make Olimpic sailing more TV/spectator friendly. That was the reason for adopting the 49er, for requesting the Tornado modifications and (right or wrong) for the new scoring system. I wonder when they will replace the Finn by foiled Moths for the same reason.

Anyway, the current policy makes olimpic sailing gradually more different from sailing in general. If the policy is not changed, olimpic sailing will be so distant from normal sailing that its format, scoring, classes and even its existence will make no difference for the rest of the sport.

Luiz

I think it's a mistake to conclude that because the general public does not understand sailing, that sailing must be dumbed down. Improved coverage techniques and skilled commentators could go a long way towards explaining enough of what is going on to make the sport accessible to the uninitiated. Pretty much every sport becomes more interesting the more you know about it. Sailing is no different. There are plenty of inherently boring and/or ridiculously complex sports that have huge followings. Sailing starts from a more tenable position than many of them.

One thing about racing in general is if you don't know anything about the participants, it's difficult to care about who wins the race. How many Americans followed the Tour de France before Lance Armstrong? For Americans to be interested in sailing would seem to require some pre-Olympic coverage of the medal contenders. Ever seen any of that outside of sailing mags?

Yea, now we're talkin'!

C'mon, they're not "crate" bikes, they tweak and tune just like you and me.

I've experienced the change in racing from the 80's to now. Has it improved?

Why? C'mon out and race, but oh...BTW, it wont quite be like Olympic sailing on TV, and pass this 20 page rules exam or we'll run your a#$ off the water!

I don't agree. I think we CAN have both.

While we are at it why don't we spice up chess tournaments. Half naked Hooter’s girls can only play the tournaments and of course we will dumb it down so Bubba and Cleatus can follow it.

Dumbing down the sport of sailboat racing is wrong. There are plenty of other sports available that require very little grey matter, why do you want to make the sport of sailboat racing just like them? This so called complexity of the game is a big plus for me, not only is it physically demanding you actually have to think!

I don't play this game for the spectators. If I wanted to do that I would have bought a POS 84' Monte Carlo and gone down to the local dirt track.

Sailing is a giant pain the butt and probably always will be. It's time consuming and can get quite expensive. That's what is keeping the masses away. All the media exposure on the plant isn't going to change that. As for simplifying the rules... it's not like all that many racers know the rules anyway. Heck, how many actually own a rulebook?

As for the sport being dropped from the Olympics… In my opinion, the current world championships do a good job determining our top teams. I’m fine with it.

Dave

I agree with Mary from the perspective of actually racing and watching. I have only raced several times- Juana's regatta with one distance race (I sucked) but the next day there was 3 triangle races which were relatively short, close to shore, didn't require any serious amount of thought about the next mark (in the sense of knowing, while watching, that the boats were going there next). I had a great time doing the "simple" races that day because there wasn't such a distance between boats- so I guess my point is that maybe what would look better on TV would also, obviously, make it more interesting for someone to do. I can understand why someone wouldn't be too interested in watching the RTI which I did (but sure is interesting to look at the number of times you tacked or gybed from the GPS points)
In dumbing it down for Bubba and Cleatus- fast reaches and an occasional pitchpole might do it for them (seems like everyone on the forum likes seeing that stuff too

AHA! And that is exactly what will keep the beginner interested and coming back. A short course where the leaders are still in site. Maybe one can learn a bit more about the rules and boatspeed. And if the cereberal part of the game is too daunting they may give up. Bubba and Cleatus win few, if any, drag races unless they seriously study boat speed. If properly put in front of the couch potato it will draw attention. As stated earlier, with the proper commentator and explanations even "boring" F1 can be entertaining to watch...you know I might be able to afford a sailboat.

Dave,
I'm not talking about dumbing it down. I'm talking about rearranging the way we set up our race courses so the fast reaching leg is as close as possible to shore, with a reaching start and reaching finish for excitement purposes. The rest of the course would be pretty much normal with upwind and downwind legs.

I like the idea of short course racing close to shore however modern spi cats/mono's are optimised for upwind/downwind racing. Most cats are flying hulls all round the course these days.

The problem with reaching marks is once somebody gets in front, it is *very* difficult to overtake unless the boat in front makes a big mistake. Windward-returns still provide great action plus a bit of suspence - did he get in front or not - we have to wait a min to find out!

I am not a fan of reaching starts either. They don't make for fair racing (1 boat usually winds up with a huge advantage if he pushes the other boats to follow the rules) and in many cases can be plain dangerous.

Michael

I don't like the idea of "crash & burn" as a boat owner. The right boats mixed with windward/return short course racing can provide excellent material and still be done in a (relatively) safe way. Modern spi launching/retrieving systems only help in this respect as the boats aren't spending 1/2 the leg putting up/dropping sails.

The idea of close to shore racing to cut costs for coverage is also a good one however I think we will alway struggle as the best coverage of sailing I have seen has always had shots from a helicopter.

Michael

One thing for sure is that "crash and burn racing" will sure clean up 5yr and older boats that are suseptible to loading up the rig and hulls.It would make Hobie, Nacra, and the like happy to broom up all them dead boats . Problem is I like my dead boat! Hope to be on the course more next year BG. M6.0

Right! That's what we need. Don't you watch motocross?

Sailing IS exciting to watch IF there are camera's on the boats and the race is being filmed from other sources such as chase boats (rubber duckies), and from a helicopter etc. There was a videoed racing series here in Australia of the 18' skiffs filmed in just such a way and it had a very large following of sailers and also with the majority of the audience being "non sailers" who watched it because
1 when it could be seen "up close and in your face" it was exciting.
2 The comentory made the rules and the boat positions understandable by every one.
3 when it is seen close up it is very spectacular.
Watch sailing from another boat in a close race and it is fast, exciting and "spectacular", watch it from a few miles away and it is just plain slow with not much apparently happening. If car racing was filmed from three miles away from the action with no zoom, and the spectators couldn't get any closer than that distance to it, and with a commentary that left a lot to be desired, how big a following do you think it would attract? Treat sailing in the same visual way on TV, as car racing and it would soon gather a large spectator following.

what is a reaching start?

I would largely agree with that.

Jobson did a great job with the Olympic coverage this year and I don’t think it could have been made much more exciting. Maybe some overlays with right of way and speeds might have been nice. It is not the most exciting sport, especially to someone who does not understand what is going. Jobson did great job explaining what was going on, but it was probably hard to appreciate (especially in the light winds).

I think it is important that all us who enjoy watching the events to watch them, but I am not sure what we will gain from the coverage. Will it draw anyone to the sport? I am not sure. This would probably be done better by training new crew or taking people out for a ride. It would defiantly be done better will a drag race (reach) in heavy winds. “Wow can you believe how the German T team went 30mph on TV? Sailing is definitely not like watching paint dry, it is exciting.”

The one thing sailing does have going for it is rooting interest. A lot of people will watch a sport just to root for their country. And that may be our only hope.

Matt

When the start line is set sunch that the first mark of the course is a reach from the line, this will also mean that the start line will not be facing into the wind.



How so? I don't see me taking part in c+b Racing if I am paying for the broken bits, I would not ave the sponser budget for them to pay either!. I would think that people taking part in such races would only be able to get 3rd party cover and so it's going to get expensive!

The 18teen series is very well done..
It does show how hard the skiffies work.....

If the TV coverage was available then this is the way to go.. However the Olympics has so many sports all competing to get air time and production expenses, I doubt if it will happen universally.. Each country has its TV channels all competing for media room space and land links.. The producers play according to national interests.. So in Au it will always be swimming before sailing... I guess in the States it will be track before sailing..

The other issue is the venues can only hold so many team members.. So the Olympic committee restrict the sports to X number and this in turn restricts the numbers of team.Dont forget one has team managers, physios doctors & bean counters.

Finally voting blocks control the type of boats not what is exciting.. How else can one explain the Star & Finn being in the regatta? They had a perfect opportunity to get high quality solo boat in the Contender but the voting block made sure it didnt happen.. The Star should have gone years ago..

Personally I dont like the SMOD focus of the Olympic push.. So I dont care if Sailing stays in..

Scooby I think if the racing became more on the edge and especially newbie friendly you might get more of the older boats out on the course that change there rigging every few years or more and are'nt so persnikity on the upkeep ( Oh wait a minute that's me!)( I would'nt want to scare anyone away from me so I will also say I d'ont let the boat turn into crap either) .There would be a mix of boats,there would be boats barely alive.The only way to go through a part or a boat for that matter is to use them. Hopefully I will use up the boats I have and maybe then if I have learned enough to be more consistant on the water would I buy a new boat. Until that time I'll slug it out with what I have. I guess if you start young in this sport/activety you are more likely to go through 2nd and 3rd hand boat stages earlier and then you settle for nothing less than new should you stay in the sport...................Next years Dragrace I think we are going to set a mark in the deep area in front of the shoreline that the current carves out so you've got to go through wave sets for the crowd.

You are joking.

If people cannot get insurance, they will not race. If boats are getting crashed people will not get insurance. People will not travel 1000's of miles and spend 10,000's of GBP / USD or what ever to just turn up with some shed boats. People will still want to bring top kit (juust 5 - 10 times as much) to the Olly regatta.

Would you take your new boat out sailing if there was 1 in 10 chance of it being written off ? I would not.

Who is going to pay for this expensive (boat breaking) sailing. Not the IOC.

Thank you Mr. Barrett
Here's the link, please click on and watch the promo video, turn your sound up, as Darryl said it is done well. http://www.f1sail.com/
Crash and burn doesn't necessarily have to mean you lose control in front of me and I, so hell bent for the finish line, drive over your bows. A nice violent pitchpole or capsize of "one" boat can be good entertainment. The leeward bow catching the back of a wave is "our" couch potatoes equivalent of the luge or bobsled clipping the wall. Helo shots, chase boat shots, a camera on the spi pole for each bow, a radar/gps speed, just tell Mr. Potato Head what to watch for and they're all over it (instant replay?) and how about Rick & Mary as color commentators?

Forget crash and burn. Ever see anyone hit by anouther catamaran? I have seen the results of a crew taking a bow in the face. I takes a lot of surgery to put you back together. To make crash and burn work we would have to dress like motocross racers.

As for making the course more spectator friendly, reach legs near the shore work and leeward marks in close for spinnaker boats. For spectators, watching the spinnaker take down at mouth of a harbor is perfect.

As I write this I realized the IOC should talk to the people who put on evening races for bars. Not mid-week races at a Yacht Club but the ones that are a spectator draw for a bar on the water. They have been making races more spectator friendly for years. They don't do it every 4 years, they do 20-30 weeks a year and get direct feedback., when they don't do it right.

Hmm, "bar" racing sounds interesting. Is there anything special they do to make it more entertaining? Carl?

That's what I'm talking about -- bar racing and Formula 40 and Volvo Extreme -- all done close to shore and in spectator-friendly formats.

I think the Olympics are neither good or bad for sailing. I think sailing deserved a place in the olympics, but I would loose any sleep over it when it is kicked out. I don't have much taste for track events either, I find them boring beyond compare, but it is what channels are showing us 24X7 during olympic events.

The rebel in me says, lets forget about the Olympics and ISAF and just do it our selfs. Helicopters needed for air-real (pun intend) coverage, BS !. For years now journalists and what not are using model planes and model blimbs with lightweight camera equipement as replacement for full size helicopters. With todays miniture equipment I've seen pure amateurs like Hakan, UK spitfire /Stealth sailors and Rocklegde engineer putting out 10 times better footage then any professional crew. Not to mention the French cat sailing DVD crew.

I we want to do it right we have to do it ourselfs. Lets put sailing back in the avantgarde seat !

Wouter

Forget :"Formula 40 and Volvo Extreme", first didn't survive and the second will not survive. Boats are too big too cumbersome and to few in the racing fleet to make things really interesting.

Go with smaller beach cats and focus entirely on the coverage and the race report enhancements like VS-like overlays showing progress, wind, currents, current position on course, etc

Make your strong point out of your weak point. Sailing is sport for real men and women. You'll need to be fit, smart and a teamplayer to win at this game. It has got it all. The unpredictiveness of the meteological conditions is a receipy for drama's. You're not a winner untill you have indeed reached the line first. What more does an audience want.

Wouter

An example of "Bar" racing is the Anthony's Friday night races held on Lake Washington. The races are run by Seattle Yacht Club and sponsored by Anthony's restaurant. After the race that is run on a six mile trangle, the sailors retire to the bar at Anthony's in Kirkland, and enjoy the video of the race while waiting for the results. Lots of fun, especially for the fool on the Hobie 17 passing the mega bucks monohulls.

Caleb Tarleton

Sailing was not even a consideration at the first "modern Olympics" - neither was snow skiing -. Sailing, along with many other "sports", some of which stretch the imagination as to how they were ever considered "sports", were gradually included, BUT NOT SKIING. It could be argued that skiing was not a "summer" event and therefore not eligible, but then there are others that are included that could fall within that narrow definition as well. If skiing is thought of as a “water sport” and has its own (very successful) “Olympic games”, what would be wrong with the ISAF doing something “good” for the sport (instead of raping it for profit and power – just my personal opinion -) and organise a separate sailing Olympic games?

On one hand I tend to agree with you Darryl. However, I think pulling back sailing from such a mainstream event could be bad overall for the exposure of the sport. Here in the states, sailing is not terribly popular to begin with so I'm not surprised when it gets minimal coverage. I do, however, tune into the BBC occasionally to hear about something about sailing coming out of Britain. Britain did quite well at the last Olympics in sailing and I would be interested to hear what kind of exposure Olympic Sailing received there...anyway, my point is, if it gets some coverage it goes much more to the mainstream media if it's part of the formal Olympic Games. If we seclude it, it will get much less mainstream publicity....Is there really a Water Skiing Olympics? (seriously?).

Sorry Jake, not water skiing, "snow skiing"

This is a VERY good example of bar racing.

http://www.clearlakeracing.com/

It has been going on for over 20 years. They have a video of Wed. night races after each race. Local bar gives out vouchers as awards. Local dealers provide series trophies. Great food, great time and great company. 45-65 boats April thru October.

Doug

Yup, No Insurance . That's what most of us do anyway here on this beach, hell I do not think most of the trailers even have a liscence tag on them . If you are going to crash your boat into somone then you will have to be on your honor and be held accountable for the damage that you "Accidently Cause" of course.Word gets around if you are otherwise.................a poor sport.

Will somebody please remind me of this next time I consider doing the Delray Drag race?

[quote] [color:"red"] Half naked Hooter’s girls can only play . . . [/color]
. . .require very little grey matter, . . .
it's not like all that many racers know the rules anyway. Heck, how many actually own a rulebook?
Dave [/quote
Hey Ding!
Do ya need Grey matter?
Is that so you can read the rules?
Thought that what beer was for, to numb the dehydrated sunburned mind and lubricate your joints for us over 40 guys.
But I'm in on the Hooters girls. That will sure get us some publicity . . . .
Cary
BTW I've read the rulebook about 20 times I keep reading the damn thing, and will keep reading it until one day I can remember it all somewhere in the middle of a crowded fleet at speed trying to figure out which side of someone's chute I'm going to duck under.

Doug, Clear Lake sounds very similar to our Anthony's Friday night series. Races start at 7:00 PM, with five minute sequence and five starts, with the Mulihulls last. They do assign PHRF numbers to all boats, and keep actual times, and post corrected times. The Multihulls are not counted in the overall results, but are scored seperately. We have a similar fleet of boats with a turn out of 25 to 40 depending on the weather. My goal is to start in the last fleet, and finish with the top two or three boats. I did not see any multihulls in your results or photo's. Ran six of the twelve races last year. My best time was 48 minutes, 31 seconds, actual, which was two minutes faster than the second place boat, a 40ft monohull. We are trying to get more multihulls to take part. Good way to promote sailing, and multihulls.

Caleb

So you are sailing with no insurance cover at all. In the USA, are you totally mad !

If you hurt someone you are going to be liabale for there medical bills!!!!! - we must have 3rd party cover to be allowed the water here; I have to have 2m GBP cover to sail at my sailing club. Sounds insane (and very worrying to me).

Very little. Maybe a minute or so every 6 hrs as part of the (almost) 24x7 coverage; perhaps totallying 5 minutes per day at max. Medal's might just make the late news. No "sailing gold frenzy for the GB team in Athens etc TV special".

Not good.

I do sympathize with the argument that Olympic status may hold sailing back. I think the OD mentality is not really helping sailing. F1 auto racing attracts viewers to a large part because the audenience expects new gadgets and want to know what kind of secret wapon team X has. Sailing was always about advances and that is why millionairs are into the sport.

Wouter

Olympics can't really hurt us. It gives the sport an air of respectability.
One-Design is by nature exclusionary, and segregates classes by it's design. It is both good for giving us measuring sticks of our own ability directly compared to another sailor, & in the upper circles, restricts who may sail by the size of their wallet, or how many boats you can park in your yard.
(I'm thinking Ingram must have a big yard )
Me I gotta big Dock.
Think I'm gonna have a new empty space on it soon, wish I had something other than my Hobie 16 to park on it . . .

Still, direct coverage is not everything.

In GB, for instance, Olympics revive the feeling that the country "rules the seas". This has political implications beyond our sport and the olympics - especially when GB rules Olympic sailing only...

In Brazil sailing brings home more medals than any other sport. Sport sailing activities could even be restrained by the socialist government. Instead, due to the limited but positive visibility during the Olympic games, being "number two ruling the seas" sounded good enough for the government to suport ($$$) a Volvo Ocean Race entry lead by olympic gold medalist Torben Grael.

I guess the situation is about the same in SA, NZ and Australia: sailing in the olympics has more "outside" impact and means more than what can be perceived merely counting TV minutes and newspaper space.

On the other hand, the selection of equipment, format and rules for the olympics certainly need development. I expect to see faster, more exciting (and colorful) boats, more onboard and blimp-attached cameras and a constant search for the ideal spectator oriented format. But not as fast as we would like.

Luiz

You have touched on something very important Luiz. The social aspect and community feel of a local Yacht or Dinghy club and an intimate pride that goes with having talented locals represent your community in the major events.I am not aware of any other but the closest thing to it around here I feel is Miami Yacht Club that are at least Catamaran friendly.There is no rival club in the area though that creates that excitement of us vs. them vs. some other club attitude that spreads that mind set.Many countries and (Colonies and Commomwealth's)seem to have still kept the torch lit.The best of this bunch go to the Olympics even if it may be only one representative.If Tonga has an olympic contender in the Star class then you know that sailing has just become very popular in Tonga. I imagine in other more sailing established parts of the U.S that this thought of removing sailing from the olympics would not even occur. So if it is popular and successful at the national level it will always probably a part of the olympics international level....

Will somebody please remind me of this next time I consider doing the Delray Drag race? [/quote] Then I guess you won't be doing much racing down in this state next year. I have insurance we all have insurance but we pay for any damage out of pocket. When I go to MKL you are on your own that's a pretty major race. SteepleChase ,Tradewinds ...............Maybe Mary or Rick can fill us in but nobody is stopping you from racing at your own risk El Presidente' Jake !

I think that sailing neither helps or hurts the sport of sailing. The classes that are picked to be Olympic are drastically effected by the decision. I wouldn't want F18 to become an Olympic class personally. I think it would draw to much development into the F18 class for my taste. As if there isn't enough of that already.

There is the positive that Sailing does get a very small amount of press during the Olympics. I also think that it develops some of the best sailors in the world. I think some of these people would lose interest if they couldn't work toward an Olympic medal. It definitely helps bring some sponsorship into sailing.

I don't really see the negatives for having sailing in the Olympics.

I think they could cover it a ton better if they put their minds to it.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

I'm sorry...When you said that most of the boats on your beach didn't have insurance, I just had visions that there were a bunch of boats on the beach that didn't have insurance. Suppose you trash my $12000 boat, or worse, injure me or my crew - are you going to pay that out of pocket? I certainly couldn't. It is irresponsible to enter a race without insurance when it is so inexpensive.

Especially liability only coverage.. thats gotta be really cheap.

Quote from the recent N20 North Americans NOR:

"Competitor’s Insurance:
Each competitor must show proof of Liability Insurance with a minimum coverage in the amount of $300,000 USD that is valid while sailing in the United States. Competitors with foreign issued insurance policies must show proof that their insurance is valid while competing in the United States. Competitor’s proof of insurance and coverage must be provided at registration. . Anyone chartering a boat from Performance Catamarans, Inc. or a private individual must purchase Borrowed Boat and Liability Insurance at registration."

Some basic insurance comes with being a member of US Sailing? or is that for race organizers?

How do you purchase it, and from whom do you purchase it? Is there an insurance agent there at the registration table?

This whole insurance thing is a complete mystery to me. I don't understand how it works and what it is that you are supposed to present to show that you have insurance at the regattas that require it. Are you supposed to show a copy of an insurance policy on your boat or a copy of your homeowners insurance policy? WHAT? (Nobody has EVER asked us to prove we have insurance of any kind.)

And I REALLY don't understand how you can buy insurance at registration, considering how complicated it seems to be if you actually contact an insurance company personally.



P.S. This really should be a separate thread.

Insurance people will take your money however they can get it. If I can fill out a form, put in a check, stick it in an envelope, poke it in a recepticle in an airport, and get insurance for the flight (lugage, etc.) I'm bording 30' away in 10 minutes, they should be able to take your money at the registration desk at a regatta. WHY someone would buy insurance for a flight, I don't know....but it's there and you can do it.

Call some Insurance broker up with your twelve year old or older beachcat and explain what you want to do.Say I would like to have some insurance for my old beach cat because I want to race with the $12000.00 boats because when I hit one of them, I think I am going to back up and hit it again like a pod of dolphins on a hammerhead, can you help me . Give us a name of someone I will call tommorow.I have tried boat U.S. a while ago and it was a dead end.My homeowners insurance is nationwide now And do you have to have your own insurance in the Olympics ? There I did'nt jack the thread

Boat U.S. does not understand beach catamarans or dingys. They want powerboats, powerboats, more powerboats, and an occasional high dollar sail boat. I shopped extensively for insurance for my last boat and Boat U.S. took three weeks to call me back and say "Ohhhh...O.K. we figured out what kind of boat you have". Contact State Farm, Prudential, or Progressive for insurance on a beach cat - you'll find the contact pleasant, quick, friendly, and understanding. If you do have a boat on the ISAF one design list, look at insurance through U.S. Sailing...they were competitive with what I had. I set up insurance for a 1984 Hunter 23 and a 2004 Nacra F18 in one phone call with Progressive and I didn't have an account or had ever done anything with them before.

Fair call. I suppose the main point is coverage from the air certainly helps make for exciting tv. Cameras from RC planes etc would take a bit of development but would definatly be achievable for a fraction of the price.

Michael

Great Jake. I switched to Boat US from State Farm after State Farm would not cover the damage to Mark Smith's I-20 after I T-Boned him at Spring Fever. My Port Tack into his Starboard Tack, I was clearly at fault and admitted it freely. They stated that since my steering crossbar broke in the course of violently avoiding him (too much adrenaline on my part) that equipment failure caused the collision and I was not liable even though it broke when there was only 15 yards between boats on a port tack and the collision was inevitable. They had no understanding of right of way and wanted to see a copy of the rules of sailing which they apparently had no use for. They just looked for a loophole to avoid payment. They told me that was the understood risk I took when sailing in a race, as did the boat I impacted. I paid Mark's damages out of Pocket, I'm glad he was a pretty good sport about it. Glad I didn't roll him or clip his bows, there would have been a lawsuit.
Maybe if we ALL had the same insurance they'd realize they just have to pay so it would be easier.
Boat US was easy, they had no problems with racing boats, & I verified with the agent that the coverage would be what I needed to cover me in a Regatta situation.
[color:"red"] I think this topic needs its own thread. [/color]

thread here

And this is the problem with trying to insure boats with people who don't understand them. That collision must have cost $1,000's and because they did not understand the risk, they did not charge correctly and so worked very hard to get out of paying - and managed it.

Shocking.

Wow, shocking that State Farm wouldn't pay.

I have State Farm and they payed quickly and in full after they recieved an estimate. They are cheap but require you to have your Homeowners or Renters insurance through them.

Previously I had American National Insurance and they also payed on a boat I hit when I first started sailing. They took a little longer though.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

It's my understanding that insurance coverage does not give a wit about the racing rules, rather they are controlled by the international rules of the road. I don't think it makes a difference what insurance company is involved.

Mark,

While that is true, they will be interested in the findings of the protest committee.

The less "road blocks "you create at this juncture the better, otherwise it will be a very secluded group or racers. Cat racing is not that big, to puncture it now is set it back another 10yrs in the U.S . There is way to much emphasis on insurance here .The big regatta years had few regulations. Yes or No

At at least through the mid eighties, the answer is a resounding YES.

That was before our American Society was so litigeous. Yes or No?

The answer again is a resounding YES.