Insurance question

I am preparing to purchase a used Nacra F18, and am getting financing from my Credit Union. They require proof of insurance, both comp and collision. Any opinions on what company is best to use?
Thanks,
Tom

Check out insurance from US Sailing.

Bob

You have lots of options. Your standard homeowners policy may actually cover liability for boats less than 21 feet, but I'd check on this, as some have dropped the size to 16 feet or less.

For a stand-alone boat policy (which I would recommend),you have State Farm, Progressive, Atlas, Ace, United, Boat US, and a myriad of others. If you run a search on this site, you'll probably pick up a few threads on this topic.

Things to keep in mind:

- You want a REPLACEMENT COST policy if you can get it. This way, if there's a loss, they won't give you the depreciated value for the F18

- Higher deductibles mean lower premiums, so go for the highest deductible you can afford. You'll probably be making your own repairs on any small stuff, anyway.

- Get the highest liability limit you can afford, as you can't really tell how much someone could sue you for if you clobber and hurt them. I'd get at least as high as your net worth (including home value)

- Clarify your navigational area (state waters, North/south regions, islands, etc.)

- Make sure they cover racing (if you're going to do that). Some add a premium surcharge for it.

- Each insurer has requirements for coverage (like moving it for an approaching hurricane, etc.), so be aware of any requirements they have. Also, they may have different ways they cover the sailing gear (sails, lines, etc.) if it's in the trailer box at the time of loss...

- A lot of insurers will adjust your premium based on your credit score, so keep the credit record clean.

I'm sure the F18 fleet can give you a better idea of the premiums, but most of us have boat policies for under $200 per year.

Progressive was waaaaaaay cheaper than US Boat. I ended up getting mine as a rider to my homeowners insurance. They were a few bucks lower than Progressive.

Bob:

Doesn't US policy say they won't cover sails during racing. That is one of my biggest expenses. The Pentex sails you built me.

Doug

Don't confuse Boat US with US Sailing.

State Farm has been good by me! Just had to explain racing to them and no motor.

The US Sailing One Design program doesn't cover sails while racing. I have a LOT of money in new racing sails. Have any suggestions?

Doug

Well, in choosing insurance, I would focus more on how the companies you work with handle claims than what they charge as a premium.

I have 6 of my 8 boats insured with Nationwide. (the other two are uninsured - they're not sailable at the moment). They have not been the cheapest but they have treated me well every time I have had a claim. That said they are in the process of converting me over to one of their subsidiaries so I don't know what the future will hold.

State Farm quoted me $190/year for a $12,000 declared value on my 2001 N20, including racing, sails, and trailer. I think it'll be hard to beat that. I am also 20 years old, so I am sure they bumped it up some because of age.

I added boat coverage through my auto insurance provider (Nationwide).

The advantage of having an "auto" provider is that they don't know a whole lot about sailing and/or racing. Should the claims adjuster come out, they're not going to ask about racing protocol and if you formally and correctly "protested" the other sailor and other stupid stuff. They're just going to look at the damage, do a little research and write you a check. Dunzo.

They're busy doing auto and home claims and get paid on the number of claims they close. The last thing they want to do is research racing protocol and the timing of who protested who and what the racing committee had to say.

If you race, make sure you let the insurance carrier know that. You definitely want to be covered under racing conditions.

I've had experience with State Farm involving a maritime attourney once before ... but there was a bit of a dispute regarding fault at the time.

What makes me nervous is when you approach a car company looking for insurance and they have no idea, not only what a brand name for a catamaran is, but what a catamaran is in general. State Farm was this way for me (although my agent generally sucks anyway). These people are writing me a policy for something they can't even comprehend? I was pretty impressed when Progressive actually had information about a "Nacra F18" and didn't need to ask me any stupid questions about it. Then, a year later, I get a letter from Progressive thanking me for my continued business and informed me that because I hadn't had a claim in the last year, they reduced my deductable by 25% of the original amount and will continue to do so for the next four years until I'm at zero. I was pretty impressed.

I hear what you're saying. It's helpful for an adjuster to know the value of replacing a carbon fiber something or other.

In my case, it was pretty cut and dry. What did you pay for the boat . . that's what it's covered for.

When my mast broke, I was pretty impressed with Nationwide. the guy didn't know squat about catamarans, but he managed to throw in a "when you step the mast, give me a call to make sure we didn't miss anything", to let me know he has a friend that might know a thing or two.
. They covered everything that was broken without belly-achin' over it.

It doesn't hurt that I also give them my auto and home insurance business. They know where their bread is buttered . . . a one-time $2400 boat claim doesn't hurt too much compared to years and years and years of that soft and creamy home and auto insurance premium butter.

I'm sorry to keep posting on a thread that is pretty much spoken for .. but I wanted to share something pretty funny.

A few days ago, I posted my recommendation to use an insurance carrier that knew nothing about catamarans because it could work in your favor during claim time.

Starting that evening, I kept getting phone calls from "Nationwide" (callerid). I didn't want to answer them because I feared it was an adjuster and they were going to re-examine my claim from 2 years ago (yeah .. I'm paranoid).

I finally answered and they were calling to thank me for continued business.

Now that "the man" is off my back, I highly recommend Nationwide!

I used to recommend using your homeowners policy for at least the cheaper, older boats. I don't recommend that anymore for a couple of reasons, but when I tried to a) make a claim and then b) write a specific policy with them some interesting things came about. This company came under the "didn't know much about catamarans" heading for sure.

When trying to make a claim they sent a surveyor who prided himself in finding that everything is a result of corrosion. He even said that to me. When he looked at the damage, he came came up with the predictable response that what had happened did so because of corrosion. He was looking at an aluminum casting piece that had broken and then was immersed in salt water. The spot corrosion that was there was new, a result of the raw aluminum having been dipped, yet he claimed that was why the part failed. Never got any money, never got to see his final report, but I can bet it said corrosion caused the breakage (it didn't).

When I tried to write a specific policy through them (I already had a keelboat policy wtih them) they were confused by the idea of sailboat race, regatta, etc. I went with Boat U.S.

The only online quote I could get, primarily because most didn't want (after answering a miriad of questions) to insure a boat with a value of less $5K. Maybe that has something to do with this premium? Or, the fact I stated I'd be racing in Hobie sanctioned points regatta (didn't specify how many). The other stumbling block was even though a sailboat was specified, the program had to know the type, qty and hp of engine. Progressive customer service stated I'm using an "unacceptable" browser. Another site would kick me out until I finally reduced the top speed to 15 mph, only to get to the $5K minimum value.

Type of Boat : MIRACLE 20 1993 HOBIE CAT 20
Cruising Area : U.S. & Canada Coastal & Inland Waters

SUMMARY OF COVERAGES
Boat and Boating Equipment-Actual Cash Value Not to Exceed : $3,300.00
Boat and Boating Equipment Deductible : $250.00
Theft Deductible : $500.00
Boating Liability :
Per Person Each Accident : $50,000.00
Aggregate Limit Each Accident : $100,000.00
Fuel and Other Spill Liability : $500,000.00
Medical Payments-Limit Per Person Each Accident : $1,000.00
Boat Trailer - Actual Cash Value Not to Exceed : $700.00
Trailer Deductible : $100.00
Sporting Equipment : $250.00
Sporting Equipment Deductible : $50.00
Uninsured Boater Protection-Limit each Accident : $100,000.00

TOTAL ANNUAL PREMIUM : $175.00
MEMBERSHIP (Required if not a Member) : $14.00
TOTAL ANNUAL COST : $189.00

Was it Trey or Maughan that have $12K for $180.

I'm glad there's the $500K coverage in case we "spill" a beer Time to talk to a human.

It kind of messes with their minds to tell them a high top speed and no engine!

I'm paying $191 (0r $211...can't remember which is for my mono-slug) annually for my 2004 Nacra F18. Don't expect to use online quotes and get an accurate answer. As much as you might not like it, pick up the phone and call Progressive - you'll get someone quick, they'll call you back when they say they will, and will be able to be more accurate for a boat than you can get from their website.

Very interesting, I have a claim history of recent and my State Farm premium is $204 for:

Boat, equipment, motors: $10,000
Boat Trailers: $2000
Deductibles all losses $250
Liability $300,000
Medical $1000

Contrast that with the USSailing qoute of $380.

You may want to consider that equipment can be very expensive to replace. A car is stolen in and around DC approximately every 58 seconds. I have come to learn to enjoy driving it while you got it.

Speaking of maritime law and insurance and such. This question may have been answered before when I wasn't looking, but this seems like an ok place to ask again.

When it comes time to make a claim from a racing accident, do the insurance folks give a rat's patootie about the racing rules? In other words, if after the protest hearing dust has settled and the racing community holds one skipper or the other at fault, does that have any sway over who the insurance companies want to hold responsible? They'll certainly look at general rules of the road, but do they know and care about inside overlap at a mark, or the general case that any incident causing damage DSQs both boat involved? Can we envision a scenario where the two may be at odds? And if the two boats involved want to handle the damage without the insurance folks, do they typically do that by following the racing rules or by trying to what the insurance companies would do? Typically my involvement with such things the skippers worked it out amongst themselves, but last year there was an incident in which there was no agreement and it was thought that maybe the decision of the protest would hold sway - but most of us had a hard time believing that for a couple of reasons.

Any thoughts? Have we already answered it?

The one thing you need to watch with insurance when you tie it into your homeowners/auto etc policy is that if you collect on the boat, your other policies can be affected.

With respect to Boat US, I have it with them as well as the Vessel Assist Towing service – and very pleased. I pay a little more, but the coverages are allot higher and deductions lower.

Keith,

My experience is with one incident and this is what I understand: First; the protest hearing is not to determine "fault". Only to assess scoring penalties for the boat(s) that broke a rule. This keeps the race committee out of any legal crap. Second; the insurance company will take the findings of the race committee into account - but they will likely consult someone for the general "rules of the water" as well. The documentation of the protest hearing are just one thing they use to try and establish facts when evaluating the claim for fault.

That sounds a little high for spillage.
Can a beach catamaran actually carry $500,000.00 worth of beer?

Just got a quote from Progressive for a new Blade & trailer, $220. Over the phone, probably the easiest phone transaction I've ever made. May not even bother with more quotes!

re: the '93 Hobie 20. Signed with Farmer's for $101, I'm happy with the premium, "knock on wood" that I'll never have to tell about how they handle claims.

Unfortunately, insurance of all sort is expensive in Florida.

Oh Yea ?
My 2002 Spitfire cost me Euro 500 last May. When I got a new one last month, I had to pay an extra Euro 25 to cover me to next May

That is expensive

Tell me more about sailing in Ireland, maybe on a new thread? I'd be interested in broadening my horizons as it were!

I think you mentioned something in another thread about listening to a transistor radio while doing a coastal race?

Pete:

Does Progressive cover racing and the sails during racing? Is the coverage replacement value or depreciation?

Doug

I'll email you a copy of the quote.

That was the Live Aid concert in 1985 - A few years ago
Check out www.catamaran.ie and www.blsc.ie for cat sailing in Ireland.

That was my experience as well. Yes, they cover sails and racing. It also covers the boat while trailering. It is also a "replacement" policy and not an "agreed value" policy. I.E. if your boat is destroyed they pay out what it takes to replace the boat with same year or newer...whichever is available. Also to my surprise, I received a letter last fall saying that because I had not made a claim, my $500 deductable was just reduced by $125. It will continue to be reduced by $125 every year that I do not have a claim until it is at $0.

That being said, I've never made a claim on my policy, so I can't speak for what their response might be...hopefully it would be as sharp as their up front work.

On the deductible thing, be sure to ask how much more a $0 deductible policy would cost. Several years ago I had a JY 15 dinghy, it was sitting on the dolly in my back yard when a mini tornado came through (remember the El Ninio winter storms of 1998?) and flipped it, snapped the mast at the spreaders. A new mast cost $475! When I called the ins. co. they said "Sorry, you have a $500 deductible, but for only $20/yr. more you could have had $0 deductible." Now I always ask and I pay the little extra for $0 but I have never had a cliam since that one!

Come to think of it, maybe I should do it Jake's way and switch to Progressive.