Blade F18 video

Here the first Blade F18 video. The design now has nearly two seasons of test sailing done.

It is flat water, but the video the better for it. The wind appears to be gusty.

Take a look when the guys push the whole of the leeward bow underwater about halve way into the clip; The boat just sails on without really throwing up much spray or losing much speed at all. The boat just recovers gently. Also notice how there is not much of rooster tales behind the rudders when going for the emergency bare-away. The rudder keep working all through the dive.

But I personally really like the way the hulls rides over the water. There are hardly any bow and stern waves. Even when a gust hits or a the boat sails into a lull, the change of hull attitude doesn't seem to disturb the water surface much at all. Now rooster tales, no splashing.

I certainly hope the Blade F16 is just as good.


http://www.thebeachcats.com/videos/Blade-F18.mpg

If this link only brings you too the video page then it is the 6th video link from the top.

Now lets wait for the video in big waves and see if the hull still handles it well as now.

Wouter

You mean F18 video.

Sorry, a typo.

Wouter

Wouter,
The boat in big waves looks much the same regarding spray the real issue is getting footage of it to prove it.
I was in a 6 metre power boat (with a 65 on back) and when the wind increased and we got into the rough stuff we had a lot of trouble keeping up and no chance of filming. Darn shame.

BTW:- I sould have posted some credits with the video.
Marcus and Karina are sailing the boat and Chris is driving the power boat so I could shoot the film.

can't get it to work... there are a lot of bad links on that site.

Video file is big so give it time to download.

It is 20 mb and it took 2 minutes on my PC to start playing.

Wouter

i just get a quick window saying it is downloading, but it closes in seconds.

it makes my wmp crash.

and I have every codec on the planet.

Yeah well, you and your PC are allergic to anything that has a link to F16's or Wouter, no matter how distant. What did you expect would happen ?

Wouter

hahaha thats true.

Based on the playback, Macs on Maui love Wouter.

open it in Retardnet Explorer a window will pop up asking if you want to save or open. Save it to your desktop, then open file with your normal media viewing program.

If you are trying to do this with Firefox, you will run into issues.

I was able to download it and play it back with no problems. I saved it first to my PC and then played it with Power DVD software.

Played fine for me with Firefox, and I can't play a lot of Windows Media Player stuff, even though I have the latest version...? Very nice video!

Oh dear lord...I need to go sailing soon....but damnit...the skippper was slow to bear away and the crew on the spinnaker - it's floggin'!!!!!!! (bark bark bark)....

Is that in fast forward, the video compression, or my beer goggles?

Brain:

If you get a lot of mov video and don't want to deal with Quicktime as I didn't go and get windows mdeia player classic. It will play mov files. Should solve your problem.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Nacar A2
www.tcdyc.com

The best free-standing video player I have found so far is the open source VLC. http://www.videolan.org/vlc/


I felt a bit sorry for the Mosquitos who looked like they was almost standing still, but they probably corrected out nicely. About the flogging, I think they was pushing the boat a bit higher then you would on a windward/leeward course..

Looks like you can push these new designs a lot harder than older designs. I know I would not want to stuff the Tornado like they did with the Blade.

Rolf,
They were sailing down a river into lake Alexandrina.
They carried the kite as long as they could hence the flogging.
Once we got into the lake (which is so big you can't see the other side) the breese really got up and the chop became quite steep. This was the footage that I would have really liked to get as it would have shown the Blade F18 in its element. But Unfortunately we couldn't keep up.

BTW:-
I got some really cool footage of the AO14 that I will be sending Darryl. That is by far the best 14ft cat that I have ever seen.
Regards,
Phill

Folks,
For those who could not get the video to play I've uploaded a new version.
If you have been having problems and still interested try again.
Hope this helps.

Phill

Saves a lot of time - This is what I get when clicking on the link. MSN Explorer, Verizon broadband:

Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache Server at thebeachcats.com

How do you go if you try http://www.thebeachcats.com/videos/BladeF18.mpg

without the "-" in the file name.

It doesn't matter what kind of boats, blazing past other boats just looks great. Super looking boat phil!

I got it working.... Nice.. but why are the soundtracks always so bad

Here is a site with instructions to make your own steadicam:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/

Very handy..Will take most of the shake out of the shots. I am going to try this out this summer..

Phill,

if we want to carry the kite higher than it's designed for, we let out 5-8cm on the tack line and sheet in. So far we have used this technique to good effect in distance races when the wind isn't too strong (dont try this in anything near trapeze conditions). This small change really alters the shape of the kite and is fast up to a certain windspeed.

Following cats in any kind of chop/waves is next to impossible in small boats. They get thrown around and must slow down while cats power trough the waves much better. What you need is a powerful big boat with a deep V hull (semi-planer?) and a flybrigde, or a motor-cat

Why was they racing on the lake and not in the ocean? Sounds risky to race on the lake with Muldjewangk lurking about


PTP, I am old enough to remember when the soundtrack (Robert Palmer?) was the hottest thing played in the disco, so it works great for me. I suggest you listen to the lyrics while looking at the different scenes, this is obviously done with great consideration.

Agreed - but why not ease it while in trapeze conditions? We do it often - especially distance racing.

Jake, I have three reasons. One is that it powers up to boat too much making it hard to control while creating a lot of drag once the wind is up. The second is wheter the mast can take the loads. We still have the Marstrøm Tornado alu-mast, and it's not the strongest one around. Third, it is hard on the spi cloth.

We spent probably about 40% of last year's 523 mile Tybee 500 running as high and tight as possible with the spinnaker. I will attest that the loads are quite high - most of the crews hands (including mine) really paid the price. The truely grueling fact was that the spinnaker was adding a lot of drag for the power it generated - we were getting about an extra .2 knots out of it for all the work going into it...but we were racing!

Great video. Can we buy a Blade yet? Any idea on price?

Chappie:

I lost the price email when I redid conputer. Check the forum on A cat vs F16. I think it is somewhere in there.

Doug

I'm with Jake here.

Sometimes you need to go high.

I know that the last 5 miles of that race, I was trying to cover Space Coast when they snuffed their chute and started going over us. Knowing that Mark would simply pull his chute out of his snuffer (we had to tramp launch ours) if we started to douse, we popped about 4" of tack line out, double trapped and I had to play the traveller to keep us going. Point is, you can, sometimes, need to pop some tack line... not often in bouys though.

We ended up letting him get ahead of us... so he could find the sandbar for us

Sorry to hijack the thread..but while we are talking about pointing and using the kite....I came up with an adjustable tack line while using the stock Nacra snuffer.

I simply attached a lead at the end of the hoop, then ran a line thru the back in to a cam-cleat on the front beam. The line was measured with a stop knot to adjust from about the distance as if it were tied, to about 4-6" out. Worked pretty good to give adjustment.

If you want to keep it simple, you can always guess the conditons, then tie of the tack accordingly before you sail.

Michael

The Blade F16 (little brother from which the Blade F18 is derived) is build in the USA by http://www.vectorworkssail.com and it costs (fully fitted, race ready, Ullman suit of sails) 12.900 US$

More info at : Full price list given by Doug in an earlier post

The Blade F18 (as in video) is in its final development stages and so is not commericially available yet. However, I personally expect to see Vectorworks Marine add it to their product line in the not to distant future. It should be cheaper then the imported F18's (Tiger, Capricorn, Cirrus) then and on a par with other domestic F18's (Nacra, Mystere).

If you want more info about anything then contact : Phill Brander or Matt McDonald. I'll give you their e-mail adresses when interested.

Wouter

This will be a great addition to their product line for Vectorworks Marine.

If VectorWorks Marine indeed chooses to go for the new boat as I personally expect then she is forming a beautiful product line-up :

- Blade F16 (available)
- Bim XJ A-cat (available)
- Blade F18 (expected)
- Blade 20 footer; Ultimate distance racer (Rolf, this will be something for you)

On www.bladecatamarans.com a presistant rumour is given more credit, see http://asiaboatrag.net/blade/6%20WHO/1people.html

It talks of the Blade 20 footer. Imagine a Taipan 5.7 (similar weight and rig) but with the new Blade hullshape and an updated rig. Got that picture ? Well this is where I expect it to come out at. Bloody fast and a pleasure to sail with excellent handling. And if VectorWorks Marine decides to take it to the market then this will be the first real competition for the I-20 design. The support of a significant production company will make the difference that boats like CFR20 etc simply don't have.

However, we'll have to wait a little while longer for this. One thing I like about Phill is that he doesn't rush things. It is either very good or gets another year of development. An engineers dream as I'm sure you agree Jake.

Wouter

One thing matt told me at Tradewinds about the proposed 20 footer would be that it would have kickup high-aspect boards.

I gotta see that.

Yes I would. I can appreciate that.

Doug: this is the Blade F18 thread, and I'd imagine that's what the question relates to. I know the F16 Blade is available, but I don't think (or know) that the F18 is.

Maughan,

technically, kickup daggers are not too hard to do. There has been made some prototypes for the Tornado. The downside is that you need gaskets to cover the bottom of the well as the boards need room to rotate aft..

Look at this: http://personal.inet.fi/private/muu/boards.htm

The mechanism can be refined a lot so it's hidden in the hull, or look for some other ideas further down on the page. Knowing a certain designers ability to think "out of the box", there might be something completely different in the works.


PS: Browsing trough Reino Uralas site is well worth, he has done lots of interesting stuff. Last was a VPP study of when to go double trapezeing downwind with the spi on a Tornado..

Rolf: I thought it would involve gaskets, but Matt indicated that it wasn't the case IIRC.

Inter_Michael,

How did you run the line? It doesn't get in the way of snuffing? Diagram?

Jake,

Did you run a doubler on the spin sheet to ease the loads. We've found this really helps on crew fatigue when carrying the kite high on distance races. We tied a pigtail to the clew of the kite with a carbo block on it and tied a stopper knot in the end of the spin sheet. When you want to deploy the doubler you draw the stopper knot back from the pulley to a hook attached to the shroud adjuster (or on top of your spinnaker turning block on the hull).

Chris.

no doubler

the doubler is to slow when playing the curl of the luff.

nah...I don't think Carl would have had enough patience for me to go to the low side to cleat it...he and I share similar focus levels. Running so high, I wonder if with 2:1 if I could react fast enough to a collapsing kite.

no doubler needed, just use your legs to pull the line. Wrap it around your arm a couple times so you can grip it.

Or use jake's gauntlet.

Yes, the 2:1 works great. I wouldn't do a long distance event without it..

Yeah, I kept waiting for the line "She's so fine, there's no telling where the money went".

Regards,
Eric

If you take a look at the beautiful job that Performance Catamarans of Santa Ana, California did on the new Nacra 580, you'll find that a kick up centerboard, that has a proper foil shape, can indeed be self sealing with no added gaskets.
Pictures of the Nacra 580 with kick up centerboards

This centerboard seals the trunk when it is fully retracted and it also seals the trunk when it is fully extended.

Flashback in time: Check out my April Fools Post from 2003:




GARY

That daggerboard is a bit to short with too long a chord for my taste. The sealing part of it could use some adjustment to fit the hulls properly
But kickup daggers would be great on a distance racer, no reason to worry too much about what you can hit with them. The extra weight added to the kickup mechanism can probably be re-gained as you dont have to reinforce the daggerboard well and bulkheads around it as heavily. I like it a lot! Just need a working and robust mechanism.
Have you tought about starting a fortune-telling business Gary? Seems like you are plenty succesful at it, or is your talent limited to beachcats?

Pardon my french here but what a non-informative post that turned out to be. Look at it was stated :




Both info elements in this sentence are just plain non-sense. It was actually just a centreboard version on the Nacra 5.8; that is even reflected in its name. It DOES NOT comply with F20 rules; it is not heavy enough. So that info element was non-sense as well.





Not really, the hullshapes are more like the old nacra's; the N5.2's, N5.5's, N5.8's and even N5.7's, then the nacra F18.





What is narrow on a catamaran. I think the hulls to be rather medium in the way of narrowness. And it doesn't have a plumb bow like the Inters. Tall ? Well the Nacra F18 has tall bows the nacra 580 doesn't. At least not more then its predessor 5.8 and other nacra boats of that time frame.





Right ! All other designers are still using wooden masts on their boats right ? And clearly carbon wing masts are inferiour to this pretty standard tear drop shaped mast. Talking up your product is one thing but still is more then a little over the top is it not ?




The N580 centreboards have an aspect ratio of 2 (the width fits 2 times in the wetted length); see provide pics.

As comparison :

F18's daggers aspect ratio are between 3 and 4. Nearly double that of the N580.
A-cats daggers are close to ratio of 4.
Even the old Nacra 5.8 (predessor) had a daggerboard aspect ratio of 2.4 = 20 % more then the new one.

But we call these new dagger "high aspect ratio" !





Please all catamaran sailors that suffer broaching on their boat raise their hands.

No-one ?

Ofcourse broaching is a monohull problem. It is linked to the heeling of the boat and the weatherhelm that is caused by the centre of effort being suddenly moved far out of line to the single daggerboard as a result.

I rest my case now.

Wouter

Wouter, I think the key here is "Check out my April Fools Post from 2003:".

Nice one Wout. Way to see the forest for the trees.

Do they have April Fool's Day over yonder? (April 1st - a day for jokes and hijinx)

haha, good one, Jake...

agree with that

Lighten up, Francis.

I just blew milkshake out my nose when I read that.

Jake owes me a new laptop keyboard now :P

oh boy I`ve missed the forum for a while, but this one is much too good to miss.
Maugan, gotta meet you some day. Wouter too.
if laughter is food for the soul, my soul just gained a few pounds.

April Fools Post from 2003 ?!

Ahh darn !

I'm know to put my foot in my mouth from time to time, but this one beats all the rest I'm sure.


Hook, line and sinker guys, no doubt.

Yep we have april fools joke overhere as well so I should have know better.

Good one

Wouter