Posted By: DanWard
A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/03/06 10:02 PM
According to the class website a new rule has been issued but the link for more information did not work for me. Anyone have the scoop on this?
A cat hydrofoil rule
Posted By: Dan_Delave
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 01:11 AM
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According to the class website a new rule has been issued
What class?
Posted By: GeoffS
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 01:24 AM
Posted By: PpS
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 02:27 AM
There needs to be a rule that states that you must be able to slide the board out from the deck side of the hull. It looks like this rule only discourages angled boards but leaves the class wide open to real hydrofoils.
Posted By: CraigO
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 02:32 AM
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Quote
According to the class website a new rule has been issued
What class?
Uh "A cat hydrofoil rule" I guess that would be the "A" Cat!!
Posted By: pitchpoledave
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 04:22 AM
Why do they want to limit development of this? Its done wonders for the Moth class.
Posted By: Hans_Ned_111
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 08:10 AM
Hi all,
In the A-class rules stands that the canted boards are allowable but when the centerboard is pulled out ( bottom is bottom boat ) it may not exceed the 2.3 meter. In the earlier rules stands that hydrofoils are not allowed. If you want to have the exact information please contact than Peter Saarberg, he can explain in detail the rule. His mail address is psaarberg@planet.nl
In the A-class rules stands that the canted boards are allowable but when the centerboard is pulled out ( bottom is bottom boat ) it may not exceed the 2.3 meter. In the earlier rules stands that hydrofoils are not allowed. If you want to have the exact information please contact than Peter Saarberg, he can explain in detail the rule. His mail address is psaarberg@planet.nl
Posted By: PpS
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 12:12 PM
Basically the A class has allowed hydrofoils [full stop].
But you must comply with the new rules about the boats beam.
For all you guys who just spent over 20 thousand dollars on a new A2. I feel bad for you. It is time to cut the boat in half and rebuild the centerboard trunk to fit banana boards.
But you must comply with the new rules about the boats beam.
For all you guys who just spent over 20 thousand dollars on a new A2. I feel bad for you. It is time to cut the boat in half and rebuild the centerboard trunk to fit banana boards.
Posted By: Dan_Delave
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 04:36 PM
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[color:"blue"]For all you guys who just spent over 20 thousand dollars on a new A2. I feel bad for you. It is time to cut the boat in half and rebuild the centerboard trunk to fit banana boards.[/color]
![[Linked Image]](http://catsailor.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10093/normal_A-Cat%20foils.gif)
Sorry about the blunder earlier. I read it as a cat not "A" Cat.
Anyway, it seems that, according to the rules they are saying that the A2 complies. The picture mentions the A2 specifically. Is there something that I am not getting?
Later,
Dan
Posted By: bvining
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 06:30 PM
My understanding is that boats with angled boards - the boards have to fall within the max beam in the all up and full down positions
So, the A2 would comply - I dont think you'll see any A2 owners changing the daggerboard trunks.
The diagram on the website is somewhat confusing.
Bill
So, the A2 would comply - I dont think you'll see any A2 owners changing the daggerboard trunks.
The diagram on the website is somewhat confusing.
Bill
Posted By: PpS
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 06:44 PM
All the old boats will comply.
The problem is they could be outdated as soon as people start using bannana boards.
I don't think there is any question that a curved foil is alowable under the new rule.
The problem is they could be outdated as soon as people start using bannana boards.
I don't think there is any question that a curved foil is alowable under the new rule.
Posted By: Luiz
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/04/06 07:40 PM
The new rule is at A Class Website News.
Interestingly, the text preceding the rule implies that the intention is to prohibit hydrofoils, but the rule itself seems to allow them - unless I missed something.
Curved foils, L foils, small T foils and asymetric foils are possible under this rule. Only Bruce foils (inclined) are less favoured, possible only with a small beam platform.
Can anyone confirm this? It would be great to see foils in the A Class.
Interestingly, the text preceding the rule implies that the intention is to prohibit hydrofoils, but the rule itself seems to allow them - unless I missed something.
Quote
Dear A class sailors worldwide ,
following up the decision taken during our last WGM in Sanguinet a Commission have investigated the hydrofoil matter.
A special thank to all people involved for the time spent to work on this issue.
It has been a free and open discussion with the following conclusions :
The technical committee has found that it is impossible to define "what a hydrofoil is".
However it is much easier to describe what affects hydrofoils can have on an A Cat and therefore limit their use.
[color:"red"]Simply we don't want foils to lift the boat.[/color] Canted centreboards and rudders may do this, so lets limit their use and in so doing we will stop any further use of hydrofoils.
Moreover, grandfhatering a big number of existing boats with canted daggerboards is not a viable option
To control this we wish to introduce a simple rule for a clear period, until the end of 2007, just to observe the situation and understand something more (Box rule + 1,5 m underwater)
We also suggest to go on with group discussion. The hydrofoil group my be delegate to discuss the subjetct and to give warning signal to IACA Committe if and when things really are getting out of hand
Measurement control
The extreme beam shall not be more than:
2.3 metres (7 ft 6½ inches)
The beam shall be measured at right angles to the centre line of the craft at the widest point and including all fixed or adjustable
apparatus with the exception of a normally accepted trapeze or retractable seat. (adjustable apparatus such as foils must be measured both completely down and completely up flush with the bottom of the
hull). In addition, no part of each hull or the respective fixed or adjustable apparatus shall come closer together than 1.5 metres below the static waterline. If necessary the static water line shall be found by floating the boat fully equipped without the sailor on board.
This rule has been approved by the IACA Commitee and will take effect immediately after it will be published on IACA Official Website www.a-cat.org
I kindly ask you all to inform all your members and to publish this new on national website.
For the current World Championship I kindly ask Magnus Roberg to update all measurement documents if necessary.
Thank you all
Stefano Sirri - IACA President
stefano.sirri@tele2.it
following up the decision taken during our last WGM in Sanguinet a Commission have investigated the hydrofoil matter.
A special thank to all people involved for the time spent to work on this issue.
It has been a free and open discussion with the following conclusions :
The technical committee has found that it is impossible to define "what a hydrofoil is".
However it is much easier to describe what affects hydrofoils can have on an A Cat and therefore limit their use.
[color:"red"]Simply we don't want foils to lift the boat.[/color] Canted centreboards and rudders may do this, so lets limit their use and in so doing we will stop any further use of hydrofoils.
Moreover, grandfhatering a big number of existing boats with canted daggerboards is not a viable option
To control this we wish to introduce a simple rule for a clear period, until the end of 2007, just to observe the situation and understand something more (Box rule + 1,5 m underwater)
We also suggest to go on with group discussion. The hydrofoil group my be delegate to discuss the subjetct and to give warning signal to IACA Committe if and when things really are getting out of hand
Measurement control
The extreme beam shall not be more than:
2.3 metres (7 ft 6½ inches)
The beam shall be measured at right angles to the centre line of the craft at the widest point and including all fixed or adjustable
apparatus with the exception of a normally accepted trapeze or retractable seat. (adjustable apparatus such as foils must be measured both completely down and completely up flush with the bottom of the
hull). In addition, no part of each hull or the respective fixed or adjustable apparatus shall come closer together than 1.5 metres below the static waterline. If necessary the static water line shall be found by floating the boat fully equipped without the sailor on board.
This rule has been approved by the IACA Commitee and will take effect immediately after it will be published on IACA Official Website www.a-cat.org
I kindly ask you all to inform all your members and to publish this new on national website.
For the current World Championship I kindly ask Magnus Roberg to update all measurement documents if necessary.
Thank you all
Stefano Sirri - IACA President
stefano.sirri@tele2.it
Curved foils, L foils, small T foils and asymetric foils are possible under this rule. Only Bruce foils (inclined) are less favoured, possible only with a small beam platform.
Can anyone confirm this? It would be great to see foils in the A Class.
Posted By: bvining
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/05/06 01:38 PM
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The problem is they could be outdated as soon as people start using bannana boards.
Personally I dont think you'll see a rush to banana boards in the Aclass for 2 reasons.
First, The current boats are pretty highly refined and making a radical change will probably not have the leapfrog effect in performance you would expect. You might see a few examples here and there, but the majority of the A cats wont have radical new boards this season or next. The issue with most types of lifting foil or gybing foil is that it needs to be "tacked" so you need to raise/lower alternative boards on each tack. So, do you lose more ground doing that or not? Remember, Its a one man boat.
Second, from what I've seen the people that make radical modifications to their boats are few, most guys racing A cats have factory boats. The number of home built competitive A's is low compared to the whole that races. So you've got mostly guys buying boats instead of building them, and the guy that just bought a new A2 doesnt have the desiire, skills,tools, etc to go hacking up a new A2 or XJ.
You might see Steve Clark experimenting with something, he's the one guy I would expect to show up right away with something new. But I've spoken to him about foils on cats and when we talked about it last year, he wasnt convinced. Its too bad he doesnt participate here.
I agree with Liuz, it's still vague in my opinion what the diagram is actually saying. It seems like its more like a directional statement saying you can do anything you want within the max beam.
Posted By: Luiz
Re: A cat hydrofoil rule - 05/05/06 02:51 PM
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...people that make radical modifications to their boats are few, most guys racing A cats have factory boats. The number of home built competitive A's is low compared to the whole that races. So you've got mostly guys buying boats instead of building them, and the guy that just bought a new A2 doesnt have the desiire, skills,tools, etc to go hacking up a new A2 or XJ.
You might see Steve Clark experimenting with something, he's the one guy I would expect to show up right away with something new. But I've spoken to him about foils on cats and when we talked about it last year, he wasnt convinced. Its too bad he doesnt participate here.
You might see Steve Clark experimenting with something, he's the one guy I would expect to show up right away with something new. But I've spoken to him about foils on cats and when we talked about it last year, he wasnt convinced. Its too bad he doesnt participate here.
I don't think inovating is necessary. Foiled multihulls already exist and all the A Class need to do is copy what already works. One example: the C Class Cogito had a set of L shaped rudders and would have used them in the right conditions - but in the end they were fast enough without them. T or L rudders may provide lift up and down. Lift up helps planing and lift down helps avoid pitchpoling.
As for the boards, IMHO Bruce foils (canted boards) would be the natural choice in a boat that already has two daggerboards. Maybe this is why the rule's main concern was to limit them by means of the way beam is measured, following the rationale that ruling out canted boards would be enough to prevent the use of foils (at all). It may work for canted foils, but L foils remain as an option.