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ISAF Scores

Posted By: Tom Korz

ISAF Scores - 05/10/06 03:42 PM

Susan & Annie 5 & 2
Greg & Jaques 4 & 9

Sandra, Ollie, Keki racing now

The conditions are Breezy & Shifty
Posted By: mbounds

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/10/06 04:01 PM

What's the time difference, TK? 7 hours?
Posted By: pbisesi

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/10/06 07:32 PM

Annie & Susan 3 & 2 for a total of 5 and in first place per the website.
ISAF World Sailing Games
Posted By: Tom Korz

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/10/06 07:41 PM

6 hours
Posted By: Dan_Delave

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 04:38 PM

Bad News that Ollie and Kelli were excused from the games. They were sailing in a "Men's Race" according to the NOR. Seems that there some protests about it and they were asked to leave. When Eileen and I heard about the problem, a while back, we were pissed at the organizers. If we had quailified it was our intention to sail together as Ollie and Kelli did.

I had heard that Ollie and Kelli did address the situation before they went on their trip and were placated to think that they would be okay and could compete. They did their due diligence, by checking before they went, and were asked to leave when they got there? This is WRONG! In most of our racing there are Women's events and Open events. I have not heard of a "Men's only" event until now. Unless it is a "Men's Day Regatta" at my Yacht Club, but that is a bumper boat mess...usually.

I know that there have not been women sailing in the Tornados at the Olympics but does the NOR for that specifically exclude women from it?

Still Fuming,
Dan
Posted By: Jalani

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 04:42 PM

Didn't Paul Elvstrom compete at the 1988 games with his daughter Trine crewing the T? (or it might have been '84)
Posted By: Mary

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 05:14 PM

In the Olympics the Tornado Class is an Open event, meaning it is open to men, women and men/women teams. One would think that the ISAF World Games would be configured in the same way as the Olympics.
Posted By: PpS

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 05:25 PM

Quote
Bad News that Ollie and Kelli were excused from the games. They were sailing in a "Men's Race" according to the NOR. Seems that there some protests about it and they were asked to leave. When Eileen and I heard about the problem, a while back, we were pissed at the organizers. If we had quailified it was our intention to sail together as Ollie and Kelli did.

I had heard that Ollie and Kelli did address the situation before they went on their trip and were placated to think that they would be okay and could compete. They did their due diligence, by checking before they went, and were asked to leave when they got there? This is WRONG! In most of our racing there are Women's events and Open events. I have not heard of a "Men's only" event until now. Unless it is a "Men's Day Regatta" at my Yacht Club, but that is a bumper boat mess...usually.

I know that there have not been women sailing in the Tornados at the Olympics but does the NOR for that specifically exclude women from it?

Still Fuming,
Dan


Welcome to the world of ISAF Bull Sh*t.
Write Jerome Pels to complain (Jerome@isaf.co.uk).
He's the Director of Sailing at ISAF meaning he's in charge of events and competitions.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Jake

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 05:26 PM

Quote
Bad News that Ollie and Kelli were excused from the games. They were sailing in a "Men's Race" according to the NOR. Seems that there some protests about it and they were asked to leave. When Eileen and I heard about the problem, a while back, we were pissed at the organizers. If we had quailified it was our intention to sail together as Ollie and Kelli did.

I had heard that Ollie and Kelli did address the situation before they went on their trip and were placated to think that they would be okay and could compete. They did their due diligence, by checking before they went, and were asked to leave when they got there? This is WRONG! In most of our racing there are Women's events and Open events. I have not heard of a "Men's only" event until now. Unless it is a "Men's Day Regatta" at my Yacht Club, but that is a bumper boat mess...usually.

I know that there have not been women sailing in the Tornados at the Olympics but does the NOR for that specifically exclude women from it?

Still Fuming,
Dan


WOW...that's a shocker.
Posted By: Jake

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 05:38 PM

Ollie and Kelly - if you can, please contact me at jake[at]teamseacats.com. I've also PM'd you my phone number. I need some information from you guys.
Posted By: Mary

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 05:48 PM

"Welcome to the world of ISAF Bull Sh*t.
Write Jerome Pels to complain (Jerome@isaf.co.uk).
He's the Director of Sailing at ISAF meaning he's in charge of events and competitions."

Thank you for providing his e-mail address.
Posted By: pbisesi

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 07:16 PM

Well That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.
Ollie: I don't know where your boat and RV are, you can fly into Syracuse and we will put you up and find a boat to use.
(may be an old 16)
You know you guys will have fun here and people will have (un) common sense.

Rum Squall... T - 9 Days....
Posted By: Robi

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 07:23 PM

wow! Little by little I am understanding why so many people cant stand ISAF. After all the expenses logistics etc they cant compete!

Did the official totally overlook this detail that they were females? Or just waited for them to arrive to "double check?"

This is totally unsat.
Posted By: pbisesi

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 07:31 PM

They are a husband and wife team.
Posted By: Robi

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 07:33 PM

so even worst! a mixed team. DAMN!
Posted By: mbounds

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 07:59 PM

Ollie - If you can't get your boat to SYR, then I'll bring my Tiger for you guys to use.

Let me know by this weekend if you can - that's when I'm loading up.
Posted By: Tom Korz

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 08:22 PM

Please note that NO competitors protested!!!!!
Posted By: BrianK

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 08:44 PM

Quote
Please note that NO competitors protested!!!!!


Thats a long way to travel, not to mention the disappointment of not being able to compete, for something like this to come out during the regatta. WTF?

If no one protested, how did it come out? Did you mean no one protested to have them thrown out, or no one protested (redress) to keep them in?
Posted By: Chris9

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 09:10 PM

Or did someone just kind-of-sort-of-protest, as in "I'll protest them if I have to, but don't you think you should do something about it . . . "
Posted By: dartfast

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 09:20 PM

See the US Sailing page on who is sailing ISAF World Sailing Games:

http://www.ussailing.org/olympics/2005/isafwsgteam.htm

It is odd Ollie and Kelli Jason are listed right there by US Sailing. They Represent the USA for Men's Multihull. Must have had an exception. Only two US teams in Multihulls.
Posted By: Tracie

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 10:00 PM

I am so angry right now.
I can not believe that after all the email discussions between myself, US Sailing, ISAF, and the competitors, resulting in the green light from Olli and Kelli to compete, that this has happened.

It is absolutely inexcusable.

FACT – The mulithull class was originally an OPEN event. When the F18 North Americans was awarded to serve as the qualifying event for the Multhull slots, it was OPEN.

It wasn’t till well after the North Americans was over that we learned it had been changed. No one was ever notified.

It seems that because the Women’s event was added, the organizers felt the OPEN Multihull should be changed to a MENS.
Not taking into consideration for any mixed teams that may have already qualified.
I’d have to research the time lines (again) on when the changes happened, but I do remember that it was switched prior to the North Americans being held, but no one was informed.

Everyone, including US Sailing, was under the impression that this was a qualifier for the OPEN Multihull class at the ISAF World Games.

I am disgusted with sailing politics anymore.
Posted By: ejpoulsen

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/11/06 10:45 PM

Quote
Bad News that Ollie and Kelli were excused from the games. They were sailing in a "Men's Race" according to the NOR. Seems that there some protests about it and they were asked to leave.


The protestors must believe that having a woman on board provides an advantage...interesting.
Posted By: F18OxJ

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 03:39 PM

Matt and Pat, Thanks so much for your nice offers. We are catching a flight back on Monday and will hit the road on Wednesday to come up so we'll bring our boat. Not missing Madcatter is the best part of this whole fiasco.

Here's our story:
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...38&an=0&page=0#Post75738
Posted By: F18OxJ

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 04:19 PM

Quote
I know that there have not been women sailing in the Tornados at the Olympics but does the NOR for that specifically exclude women from it?


Dan, The Olympic Tornado class is open. Also, the previous World Sailing Games have had a Women's Multihull as well as an Open Multihull discipline.
Posted By: F18OxJ

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 04:21 PM

[quoteWelcome to the world of ISAF Bull Sh*t.
Write Jerome Pels to complain (Jerome@isaf.co.uk).
He's the Director of Sailing at ISAF meaning he's in charge of events and competitions.

[Linked Image] [/quote]

This is the guy who could have done the right thing in the protest hearing and honored the exception. I believe he is also the one who originally notified Gary that Kelly was to be denied entry.
Posted By: Mary

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 04:32 PM

Not that it makes any difference, but I got the impression that they had changed the Open Multihull division to Men's, because they have been thinking of dropping the Women's Multihull division from the World Games, depending upon how many women attended this year, and they thought having an Open Multihull might further dilute the attendance in the Women's event.

Ironic that the result of Pels' action was to actually exclude a woman from the World Games. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fin.

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 04:51 PM

[quote][quoteWelcome to the world of ISAF Bull Sh*t.
Write Jerome Pels to complain (Jerome@isaf.co.uk).
He's the Director of Sailing at ISAF meaning he's in charge of events and competitions.
[image]

Why bother? He's probably on some sort of "power trip" and considers this a testament to his control.

The only way to get to this guy is through an effective boycott. Unless someone looses money, this guy is untouchable.
Posted By: HobieZealot

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 05:13 PM

I think Ollie and Kelly lost plenty of money on this one!
Posted By: Mary

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 05:17 PM

I would write to either secretariat@isaf.co.uk or to "Simon Forbes" [email]Simon@isaf.co.uk.[/email] Maybe he will just pass the e-mails on to Jerome Pels, or maybe he will distribute them to some others within ISAF, as well. At least your messages will be reaching one more person.
Posted By: PpS

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 05:21 PM

You could also write to everyone on your MNA's ISAF Delegation

http://www.ussailing.com/isaf/committee.asp
Posted By: Mary

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 05:28 PM

Remember that ISAF considers the United States to be a rebellious problem child. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Here is what ISAF past president Paul Henderson told me late in his tenure:
"In my 10 years as ISAF President 90% of the problems have been with the USA as happened with my predecessors. The difference is that they ignored the pedantic complaints but I, as a Canadian who was used to the US of A, continued to believe that I should try and bring the Camel inside the tent rather than keep them outside the tent no matter how bad the breath of the Camel. The US of A reaction to anyone who does not buy into their view of the world is that you are anti-American. Nothing could be further from the truth. During my tenure every USSA delegate who wanted to be on an ISAF committee was appointed and I tried to have special regulations to allow the US of A to work their way as I did with the Bacardi Cup against the opposition of the other countries. But when they are totally ridiculous refusing to meet their obligations as happens with Olympic classes I was very militant..."
Posted By: fin.

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 05:38 PM

Was this premeditated then? A U.S. team thrown out on ANY pretext?

I've long made it a policy not to go places I'm not wanted, but that's just me.
Posted By: fin.

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 05:47 PM

Quote
But when they are totally ridiculous refusing to meet their obligations as happens with Olympic classes I was very militant..."


I don't know this history, care to enlighten me?
Posted By: Mary

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 05:54 PM

No, I do not think it was premeditated.

It's just a matter of "Ignorance of the law is no excuse," and Gary Bodie having nothing in writing granting the exception to allow a woman in a men's event.
Posted By: Mary

Re: ISAF Scores - 05/12/06 06:34 PM

Quote
Quote
But when they are totally ridiculous refusing to meet their obligations as happens with Olympic classes I was very militant..."


I don't know this history, care to enlighten me?


Sorry, Pete, but I don't know the history. Henderson told me, "I have no more time to try and educate you on these matters."

I do want to make it clear, however, that I thought Paul Henderson was the best president ISAF ever had. At least he was hands-on and accessible and very outspoken and you always knew exactly what he thought about things, whether you agreed with him or not (and most of the time I did agree with him).
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