self tacking jib???

I just bought a Mystere 4.3 this past weekend as a beginner boat to learn to sail on. (yippee!) I am still clumbsy and trying to figure things out. It would sure help to have a self tacking jib. Is that class legal for the 4.3? I won't be racing anytime soon, but eventually plan to.

Another thought:
My father made me learn to drive in a car with a standard transmission (in the mountains of WV) before I was permitted to drive one with an automatic transmission. That way I would never feel handicapped in any car. With that in mind...Do you think that it is better to learn without the help of a self tacking jib or does it matter?

Congratulations! Where are the pictures? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Go with the traditional jib.

I was afraid I was going to get that response...
I think you are probably right.

I don't have any pictures. Sorry. I was too busy playing with my new boat to worry about a camera.

We knocked the thing over to see if I could right it and I couldn't. There was near calm wind and David said he thought I would be able to if there were more wind but I am not convinced yet. I want to see me do it.

There was very little wind for most of the day but there was a time or two that made me laugh out loud. My knees are sore. My shoulders are sunburned and I am as happy as can be. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Congratulations...

I'd get to know the boat a little first before spending money. There may be other upgrades you will benefit from more but you haven't realized those yet...

If you are close to righting the boat, try this:

Tie a loop in the righting line so that you can hook your trapeze harness to it and be in somewhat of a position to right the boat. Use a Glad bag/contractor bag to scoop water and sit in your lap. It works best if you fill the bag between your knees, pull it out of the water just enough to get it on your shins/knees and voila the boat comes right up. I am about 10 pounds shy of righting my boat and this has worked every time.

Call it the Alabama Trash Righting System (ATRS).

t

Congrats on the Mystere 4.3 purchase... you should visit the mystere owners website and yahoo group... http://mystereowners.org/mystere/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystere43/messages
The message board is primary communication vehicle for owners... invite instructions on the mystereowners.org website.

connecting myself to anything while righting gives me the willies. I'm fine with knots in the rope to facilitate easier handling, but getting tangled underneath the boat worries me...it once caused me enough delay for the boat to turn and accelerate before I could get on board.

I saw some foam knee pads at Lowe's for @ $5. Also, one of the drills at Rick's seminar was to sail standing up. You might want to try it.

Happy sailing!

Sunny,
I you take the idea of learning to drive a manual car and apply it to sailing your new boat when considering tacking the equivalent would probably be to remove the jib for a while.
I don't know your boat as we don't have them in Australia but generally speaking boats are harder to tack without a jib. Once you are doing perfect tacks add the jib.

It really is more difficult to right a boat in no wind. When you have wind and you turn the boat into the breese it generates lift on the sails as they come out of the water and this helps get the rig out of the water and into the air.

I tie knots in my righting line every 12 or 14 inches.
Just one wrap around my trap hook and the knot stops the line. As the boat starts to come up I can grab the line and another knot helps me pull the line to slip it along to the next knot. This would also work with a righting bag with your free hand.
I would not like to have a loop on the righting line. I have had the boat right itself and take off because the tiller and main sheet were tangled up. This would be bad if I was hooked up under the boat.

Another thing is to let the downhaul off before righting. That way when the boat comes up the main is less likely to develop lift and either take off or flog violently in heavy wind. Basically it just makes the boat more docile in the newly righted position. Of course you would already be letting the mainsheet and traveller off.
Hope you enjoy your new boat.
One last thing .........next time don't forget the pictures.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Phill

Congrats on the new toy Wendy, and what Phill said goes for me too! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In addition see if you can pressure test your mast for leaks and search this forum for how best to solve those leaks that you'll inevitably find.

Even a pint of water sitting in the top of your mast when capsized takes a hell of a lot of effort to lift. (No doubt some of our more geeky forum members will provide us with an exact calc of effort required for a 4.3 with a pint of water in the mast <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

I didn't have any trouble holding onto the line but having knots in it does sound easier.
I am trying to picture how a righting bag would work. Do I hold onto it with one hand and the righting line with the other?
I think I am close to being able to pull it upright. I hung out there as far as I could and tried to 'think fat' but it just wouldn't come up. *Somebody give me a pork chop.

Learn to tack without a jib first?
Okay, I was asking if a self tacking jib sounded okay and now I don't even get to have a jib? LOL. You are tough!
...You know I am going to try it though.

The bag is usually hung from the upper hull (tied and thrown over the hull) and has some sort of purchase system on it (3:1 or similar). You lower the rope putting the bag in the water, then you hoist the bag up a bit using the 3:1 (so if you have 100lbs of water in it, it's like pulling 33lbs on the rope). Then you use your righting line like normal but try to get the waterbag behind your shoulders - you push the bag outwards and it helps add to your weight. Seriously though, I bet you will be able to right the boat without the righting bag.

Say, are you going to bring that new ride to the Reggae Regatta at Lake Lanier in a couple of weeks!?

I am not ready to race yet. I am pretty proud of myself that I don't run into boats that are mored. LOL. Give me a couple more minutes with it.

I did accomplish my first goal on my maiden voyage. I wanted to get out there and back without needing someone to come and get me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I did also accomplish backing the trailer down the ramp without serious damage to the dock or my boat. I also was able to read two wind shifts before they got to my boat. I actually told Cary what I thought was going to happen before it did so I have a witness!

Those were the good things. There was this one little bad thing...David, I am really sorry I dropped the mast on your head...

Hi Sunny -

The self-tacking jib is indeed class legal and I considered one as well. In the time it took me to decide if one was right for me, I got so used to sailing without it that I stopped worrying about it. Bill Gillespie mounted a self-tacker on two boats, I think - he bent the tracks himself and it looked like it would work just fine.

On the matter of learning to tack - don't waste your time taking the jib off. That actually makes it harder. The beauty of that tiny jib is that you can leave it cleated on the wrong side and it won't bother you too much - what I mean is that you don't have to frantically rush to break it free on one side to sheet it in on the other.

My learning curve was this: in the beginning, I would start my tack by footing just a bit for a little squirt of speed, then turning steadily (but not slamming it over) up through the wind holding the mainsheet right next to the cleat. As soon as the mainsail went slack, I uncleated the main and moved to the other side of the boat so I could look forward again at the jib, which I haven't touched yet. Having the jib stay cleated will help you get the nose of the boat around, but it isn't so big as to cause a problem (like flipping <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />). I watched the jib fill up on the wrong side of the boat and felt the mainsheet play out a little bit, maybe a little less than a foot. Once I could *feel* the jib backwinding, I would straighten out the rudders and cleat the main where it was. Only then would I reach forward and break the jib free, sheeting it in hard and quick on the new leeward side. Then I would sheet the main in and steer up for speed. Once I got going, I'd take a look at sail trim to see if the jib was set ok.

This is NOT an incredibly fast tack, but it was how I learned and I got quicker and quicker tacking every time I sailed and got used to the feeling of the boat turning through the wind and powering back up after the tack. By the time Nationals came around, I had it down to one smooth quick series of motions as I crossed under the main.

If you take the jib off, I think you'll be learning the way some Hobie 14 sailors did - crank the rudders over and back through the tack. There's nothing wrong with learning that way, too, but you have a jib so you might as well use it. Plus, the boat goes uphill sooooo much better with the jib on. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I did an event once without the jib and it was waaaay less fun.

Enjoy the practice.

Adding to John's post-
One of the things I really got out of Rick's seminar was boat handling with using the sails to steer the boat. I knew it before but never really practiced it. Once you understand that the jib pulls the bows off wind and the main pulls the bow to windward things become so much easier- especially if you find yourself in irons when tacking.

OMG! What?
I didn't know that.

Wendy-
try it sometime. Head somewhat off of close hauled and let all your sails flap- you will still be moving but not fast obviously. grab the boom with your hand and pull it towards you without steering and you will feel the boat head up. then do the same with the jib and you will feel the bows head off. It has to do with the center of effort in the sail relative to the daggerboards/center of resistance of the boat.

My boat doesn't have daggerboards it has something sort of like fins with a metal strip along the bottom of the hulls.
Will the sails still steer it like you describe?

What you have is more like a keel. A boat has to have some way of keeping it from slipping sideways. Whether it is a keel, daggerboards, centerboard, leeboard or asymetircal hulls. Furthermore all boats are designed to be balanced on this, for and aft. You will be able to use the sails the same as if you had daggerboards. It is also really good to experiment with this concept as you will gain a lot of knowledge about how the wind effects the boat.

Happy Sailing!

Later,
Dan

Thanks guys, I can't wait to try it.

One more thing
The mast on my boat has a place for a safety pin but there is no hole in the ball. The ball seems to be white plastic with a metal pin down through the center of it. Is that what came with the boat?
I only ask because the mast is light. I am sure I would be able to step the mast myself but managed to drop it on Mosley's head the first time I tried. (well I think it techincally smacked him in the right ear and shoulder)
I really want a pin throuh it but am afraid to drill through the ball. What do you think?
Don't tell me to just push down on the mast. That sounds like it should work but I hate that idea. I don't want to hurt anyone.

Yep... no pin and don't drill the ball... I won't tell you to hold down on the mast but that is what everyone does <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If it is anything like my boat- which I assume it is- the pin doesn't go thru the ball, it actually goes under it so the mast doesn't pop of the base when raising or lowering. I have forgotten the pin a couple times recently and thankfully only the mast got wacked.

Wendy, Congrats on the new vessel! I don't know the Mystere, but on my Hobie there's a pin to put through the mast base when raising or lowering. It goes through below the socket for the ball, and creates a sort of lock. I would hope that any newer boat would have something like this. Another thing to consider when righting, I once flipped in a gust as I leaned over to pull on my downhall, I never did cleat it. Went for a swim first. As the boat righted, the main came unhooked, and came down. I couldn't get it back up on the water by myself, but luckily had a friend jump aboard to help. So I'm not too keen on releasing the downhall... The 4.3 looks like a great boat. Have fun!

Sunny,

Drilling a hole through the ball to put a pin through it to hold the mast in place would also prevent the mast from swiveling, so that is a bad idea. The mast chord length (distance from front edge to trailing edge) is long enough that the mast cannot be put on the ball without turning it sideways before lifting it off the beams, so it has to swivel on the ball even as it is being raised (unless you want to rig it like a Taipan 4.9 or A cat from the front of the boat which you don't). I will not tell you to lift it with some force holding the mast butt against the ball (since you asked us not to) but that is how all the other Mystere 4.3 owners rig the boats and they also de-rig them by keeping a little downward pressure on the mast as they lower the mast and rotate it as it gets close to horizontal. It is very easy to do and becomes natural to you with a few iterations. You will even learn not to stand too far back on the tramp as you do this so that the boat does not pivot back (bows up) as you exceed the balance point at the back end of the keels (keeping the cat tracks there prevents that also). Something is wrong if you don't do that a few times just like dropping the mast the first time you rig it or take it down. That not only speeds up the learning curve but it also aids retention!

If you feel compelled to do something else, here is my suggestion: install an eye strap in the center of the front of the mast close to the bottom just above the bottom casting. Then tie a line from there to the base of the mast to keep the mast from slipping off. This allows the mast to pivot as needed but you really should try to get used to the other method before doing this as it is worse than the other method for several reasons.

Make sure you take advantage of what Mike Teets wrote earlier - read through the Mystere 4.3 owners' website. There is much useful info there so it will take a while but will be worth your time and Mike maintains that voluntarily for your benefit. If you do not find the info there then you can always ask other owners for the tips you need to better enjoy your boat. You have already proven yourself to be a little smarter than most boat owners!

Mike Fahle

Word on the street is that this was intentional. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I may have been a little irritated with him later on but not at that particular moment. LOL. I really felt bad.

Okay...I will push down on the mast to raise it like David told me to. (Mosley was right again. That is getting irritating) Just be careful if you are the one behind me.

The hole for the pin in the base of the mast is too high to go under the ball. It lines up with the widest diameter of it. I won't worry about it anymore.

I know that's right. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

do you not remember who pulls your mainsheet, jib, and spinnaker in at your request, every time, sometimes in a timely manner? I may be irritatingly right sometimes, but I work hard!
Wendy, we'll get you a pin next time, dont worry...

In lieu of using the pin (NACRA called them captive mast steps), you could also use a spare line to tie the mast base to the dolphin striker post (bowline around the post and a bowline around the mast rotator or something on the base of the mast). This would act like a safety harness when the mast pops off the ball - b/c it will pop off the ball. The base of the mast will pop up, but will catch on the line and you should be able to recover. Remember to leave a little bit of slack in the line so that you can lower the mast all the way. IMO, lowering the mast without some sort of "catch" is an accident waiting to happen.

That will work for me. Thanks Tom!

On my Nacras, I'd always use a Philips screwdriver of about the right diameter and length when my pin was missing (usually, in other words). When derigging, make sure the handle is on the side that's going UP! Good luck.

Sounds like a fair point. I usually put a couple of wraps around my hook so that once I let go of the righting rope it immediatly falls off.

Tiger Mike