Snagged line, angry fisherman: What would you do?

Here's the situation:

In a race, I've rounded the leward mark and I'm heading to weather with an A cat very close to leward. There's a small (~12') aluminum boat ahead of me that is motoring about dead upwind. On my point of sail I'll pass ~10' off his transom. I hold my course.

When I'm very close, I realize the boat has lines in the water - the poles are laying down in the boat, which is why I couldn't see them. I can't bear off because of the A-Cat, and it's too late to tack. My crew and I are on the wire, and there's not enough time to pull the board.

So I hold my course and pass ~10' behind it. I snag a couple of lines, and one of the poles goes overboard. There's an man and four young kids in the boat. The man immediatly starts yelling obsenities at me, saying things like "Get back here ***hole, you owe me a new ****ing fishing pole". I continue on, finish the race and head in to the beach.

Shortly after I reach the beach, the boat comes in to shore, the man gets out, walks up to me and starts yelling in my face about how I nearly killed his kids and owe him $250 to replace his pole. I stay calm, but can't get in a word edgewise. He's yelling obsenities very loud, and there's many other racers on the beach looking on. After about 5 minutes of this, three other racers step in and basically tell the guy he's right and I owe him for his gear. One offers to pay him for it if I won't.

At this point I feel like I don't have a choice, and my crew writes him a check for $250 (I left my checkbook at home), although I seriously doubt his rig was worth more than $30. He's still pissed off and demands that I apologize to his kids, which I refuse to do.

After he left, there was no shortage of other folks who witnessed the confrontation who told me I was in the right and they never would have paid. Unfortunately, no one I knew was present and no one else was willing to stick up for me when it would have made a difference.

So, what would you have done if you were in my place?

What would you have done if you were a fellow racer on the beach?

We constantly have fishing boats on our lay line near marks with lines cast a long way out in all directions. You just don't know where the lines are until it is too late. I have personaly taken out a few as with other club members with fisherman screeming. None have approached me afterwards.

Don't know what the solution is. Don't think the fisherman quiet understand.

We'd still be fighting.

I'd honestly say that 10 feet is too close to another boat not involved in the racing, IMO.

If you were approaching the boat at an angle from astern you may also have been considered to be overtaking, in which case you must keep clear.

Keep in mind here that the boat in question would not meet the definition of a fishing vessel, but...

We're all out there to have fun. Common courtesy should rule in this case. Now there is one adult and two children who believe the worst of the sailing community, only to have confirmed later on the beach. If it were me, I would have tried to figure out a good payment and I would have apologized profusely, and offer to buy the guy a beer and his kids some ice cream. I would hope for the same if the roles were reversed. But maybe that's just me.

But, again, I think 10 feet was too close, fishing lines or no. I would have tacked earlier, or called for room from the A-Cat. Also, and we keep forgetting this, it is a perfectly viable option to release the sheets and stop. If you had time to raise the boards, you had time to stop or slow significantly.

In the start sequence of last Tuesday's race I tried to carry the spin high enough to clear an anchored boat. I ended up snagging his anchor line with the boards, and torqued his boat. Fortunately things were slow enough that we could fend off. I apologized, he said no problem, end of problem. If he said he had dropped his steak dinner in the water I would have offered to buy him one after the race. It was stupid of me to be so close to somebody who was not involved in the race.

And now for the humorous - a couple of years ago the finish to the C-100 was in the dark at Sandy Point. The committee strobe wasn't very visible compared to the group of fishermen's set up 25 yards south. They lights, and coolers, and lawn chairs, and a bunch of lines in the water. A finishing boat (to be nameless here...) saw the lights, thought it was committee, heated up and did a Worrell finish right in the middle of them. Fortunately nobody was hurt, during the incident or in the moments following - lots of apologies went a long way to healing bruised feelings.

Sorry for the long tomb. This is all just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

OK - I'm down with being courteous and all ... but is the small fishing boat really a burdened vessel such that he no longer needs to yield ROW to a sailboat? Note that the poster said the fishing boat was under way - not anchored. If the boat in question was moving and it was impossible to tell that the guy was trolling anything until too late, I wouldn't feel that bad about having snagged a line...certainly not $250 bad. Based strictly on the information presented here, I would offer him to split the cost of the rig and if he didn't like that, I would offer to file a claim with the waterway folks and let them decide (DNR, Coasties, etc.).

Secondly, if his poles were so poorly restrained in the boat, what the hell was he going to do if he actually hooked a fish? That guy is likely at home laughing with his buddies about how he got $250 out of that sailboat guy (in front of his kids).

this kind of reminds me of the situation Trey and I had with the parasailing boat off of west palm during the Tybee.

We had established a course to stay clear of the parasail boat, it changed course and crossed in front of us with less than 50 feet to go, we were balls-out flying downwind... only thing to do to avoid entangling a parasailer was to crash-gybe and capsize to be sure to keep the mast out of the tow-line (which was very low to the water since the parasailer lost speed and therefore altitude).

Tempers were hot on our side but really there was no recourse other than to swallow our pride, right the boat, and keep going.

Its unfortunate that the fisher wasn't aware of the rules of the road. (And poo-hoo if they consider a trolling fishing boat "encumbered")

I'm down with being courteous too, but the guy was screaming at me from the get-go and demanding an exorbitant ammount of money.

If he was calm and asked for $30 (which is more than what his other three poles appeared to be worth) I would have given it to him and apologized. As it was, that didn't appear to be an option.

This post brings up an interesting topic, fishing boats (recreational) often have trolling lines in the water for quite some distance behind them. Are these boats required to fly any type of signal to alert other boaters that they have lines out? If not, who is actually at fault if a another boat comes into contact with these lines after passing a "safe distance" behind and damage occurs to either boat?

Let me get this straight. A small motor vessel, trailing fishlines, is motoring right through a sailboat race course just upwind from the leeward mark ?

And the guy thinks he has got any rights ?

He pretty much abused you into pay but I can fully understand you gave in when some of your fellow sailors started to support this guy. An ugly story indeed.

Personally I would just have stopped and put in a slow tack, taking the hit in racing the A.


Actually we had a similar story in our club race last sunday. A sailing yacht was admiring the bunch of beach cats, all tightly grouped at a particular spot and wondering what those big orange bouy were doing in the water. And the yacht was moving along in a straight line nicely when the horn sounded and about 10 beach cats came screaming at it at about 10-14 knots speed. It continued on as it appeared that all the cats would pass it just a stern. Of course the course was perfectly along the coastline and only some 500 meters out. The yacht had to tack sometime or risk grounding. It tack right before the windward mark and starboarded the whole middle and rear pack of the racing fleet almost right on the mark.

At those situations you can hear racing crews yell :"hold you course !" and see them screaming passed the boat on both sides.

Now mishap happened but this particular yacht will remember next time what big orange bouys mean.

Wouter

If this was a weekend regatta. Where were the mark boats?
One of their jobs is to let power boats know what is going on and keep them away from marks and lay lines.

Unless he had a Bassmaster camera crew near by and a Triton boat there is no way he would have gotten $250. Maybe $50 for pain and suffering if he had acted civil.

I always used to think that fishing rods used to float ?


Wouter

I thought most did too except the heavy duty off shore ones.

I've done the same thing before. Passed to close to the stern of a fisherman and snagged his line. All he lost was his lure though. I apologized but he continued to chase me and shout obsenities. I learned a lesson that fisherman on inland lakes really do troll for fish. I had no idea people trolled on inland lakes prior to that event.

Having learned that lesson I probably would have tacked in your situation as it just isn't worth taking a chance. However, when you did catch the line and saw the pole drop in the water you should have stopped racing and gone over to apoligize in my opinion. I would have worked it out right there on the water if possible. If he was angry and yelling obsenities while I apoligized I would have turned around and sailed off.

Still I doubt if I would have given the guy $250 for the pole if it wasn't a deep sea rig or something. But I'm not up on my fishing prices. My guess would be in the $100 range for an average pole and reel.

the question now is what will you do if confronted with the same situation in the future? my years of experience have taught me to avoid conflicts no matter who has the 'right of way'. its possible to anticipate problems if i remain observant and realize its 'just a race'...stay clear and sail fast!

Remember I said that he did not fit the definition of a fishing vessel, and he probably didn't think so either. Some people in these cases try to make that point.

He was a motor boat, you're a sail boat, but you're a high speed sail boat. I'll bet the speed of the cat exceeded the speed of the fishing boat. A fast cat flying up on some guy dragging fishing lines with his two boys in a skiff (maybe I'm making the wrong assumptions on the fishing boat) is going to have a hard time justifying the "I'm a sailboat" thing IMO. Again, depending on the angle from astern, it may have been an overtaking situation where you become burdened whether under sail or power. Would he have been able to gun the gas to get out of the way in time? Was his boat even capable of that? I don't know. Even if he hit the gas the lines probably still would've gotten snagged. I still think 10 feet is too close to be to a non-participating boat.

He was probably pissed enough that maybe the cost of the gear went up to make his point. And part of him being pissed was probably him believing he was being buzzed. Maybe the rod that was lost was his best rig, and the others were just crap from the garage. Maybe it was favorite handed down from his Dad. Who knows? Give people enough room on the water and you won't have to find out.

There are still a$$holes out there. One Lighthouse Race I gave a guy that was anchored a wide berth. He pulled his line up, went to the bow, and gave a mighty effort to cast the line across my bows. Had I cut it too close he would've got me. As it was I needed to round up.

My $0.02

The incident was regrettable until he went berserk. Then it became a legal issue.

His remedy lies in the courts, it is a civil issue.

Getting in your face is an assault, a criminal issue. One of you should have called the cops. Or whipped his butt, or both.

I wouldn't have paid him anything. If he was paying attention he would have realized that there is a race going on..

That fisherman was a jerk, plain and simple. The foul language was reprehensible. He over reacted in every way, and worst of all he gave his kids a really poor lesson in how to handle a difficult situation. He probably shouldn't have been sitting in the middle of a race course and would have had better luck fishing in another part of the lake, but... As somene pointed out, we're all out there to have fun. The racing rules point out that the fishing boat is an obstruction. You could have called for room from the other competitor, but with navigable water all around the fishing boat the responsibility is yours to avoid him. With lines in the water, he is the burdened vessel, even though it's not clear where or how long his lines were, or that he was fishing at all. Looking at it from a slightly different scale. If you were at sea on Playstation and crossed within 50-feet of a long-line fishing boat and snagged its line, you'd be writing a check for a lot more than $250 of lost gear.

Despite the fisherman's bad attitude, lack of character and poor parenting skills, I think he was probably right.

next time I go sailing, I'm gonna take a piece of fishing line, and a hook, tie it off to my stern, and call myself a burdened vessel. :rolleyes:

For added context, this was at a long, narrow lake that is very sailing oriented, and a relatively famous racing venue.

The incident occured at the narrowest end, where it is ~ 200 yards wide. The fishing boat was ~ 50 yards from the shore. I was approaching him from the shore-side. When I fouled his lines I was more or less perpendicular to his course.

If I had realized that there were lines in the water, I would have tacked although I would have had to tack back very quickly and I'm not sure I could have cleared his bow after the second tack as he was motoring upwind.

I guess I could have slowed up, ducked the A Cat and bore off but as the lines were right on the surface I would have had to go dead downwind to clear them once I realized they were there. In that case the A Cat would have been the one to foul his lines.

With fore-knowledge, I could have ducked the A Cat and tacked early on the first leg after the mark, but that would have sent me into the traffic heading downwind to the mark.

Of course if I was a motorboat I could have just gone in front of him. There are reasons that sailboats have rights over motorboats, and it's not just about speed.

What I dont understand is how a fisherman and his kids, sitting on their boat, cannot see a fleet of cats racing towards him. I can understand that maybe if he was close to the shore and had little to no room for maneuverability, that it would be your fault, but if hes in the middle of a lake or whatever, he should follow the basic rules of the road and get that skiff out of there.

I went through a similar case when I was coming in at the end of the day from sailing around the lake on my H16. I was close-hauled on a port tack with the shore parallel to me and to port about 20ft from me and was approaching my entry/exit landing when suddenly I heard a man start screaming and looked just in time to see his pole ripped out of his hands and into the water. I immediately headed-up and appologized to the man profusely. I explained that the shore was crowded and I had NO idea that fishing was even allowed at that section of the landing. Fortunately he calmed down when we found that he only lost a hook and a worm. Not that he could have caught anything there anyway with all the boats moving in and out of there.

Years ago, a buddy and I were testing a tunnel boat on a river.These boats top 70 mph no problem. Anyway, my buddy is ripping down the river and fails to notice this old guy fishing from the bank. He runs over the guys line and the rod flies from this guys hands and launches about 30' in the air.The line breaks and the rod/reel heads into the trees on the other side of the bank still heading uphill. The old guy is stunned. He gives me a WTF just happened kind of look.After he recovers, he starts making noises that it was a $200. combo. After a bit of searching, the rod was found tangled in a tree about 25' up. My buddy climbs the tree and retreaves a K-Mart special rig worth about $10. Shortly after that, the butt beat a hasty retreat.I would never pay without a reciept.

He's fishin, he got the right to fish, he does not have to get out of our way, you had the decision to make, tack, miss the boat lose the race, or sail through, cut the lines and salute. those split second decisions are what make or break life, you paid the price, and maybe learned a lesson be happy for it. now you asked what I would have done, I know that fishermen have the right of way, and I keep clear in this situation I might have done as you did, and then I might have been abliged to let the helpful guy on the beach that offered to pay for the rig do so, I might have been drunk on the beach and not liked being yelled at and kicked his butt or died trying. However if the wife was there drunk or not I would have paid the man and been pissed and felt it was wrong. I think you did what you had to, do not feel bad, it could only have gone different if you tacked.

A fishing boat TROLLING is not a burdened vessell, it still owes a sailboat under sail the right of way. A trawler is, as is a para-sail boat "Restricted in it's ability to maneuver" Ram. If it is a large vessel it would probably be "constricted by draft"CBD also.
Your fisherman had no rights according to the Coast Guard.
I've had the same thing happen numerous times, including getting yelled at in the Ches. Bay for sailing through a guys chum slick,not even near his lines.He was real irate, I had a flare at the ready just in case.
I fish alot and have more problems 100 fold with other fisherman than with sailors.
Next time pull your knife and cut his line and tell him you just saved him a rod and reel.

It's called fishing. It's a fishermans responsibilty to tend his lines. Not just float them out there. A golfer is responsible for the flight of his ball and a fisherman is responsble in the same manner.

I've had a few encounters with fishermen and I try to avoid them when possible however when they fish in channels or near them or float thier lines far from the shore I have no mercy.

Lastly I wouldn't have given him a dime. What would have happened if the line had popped up out of the water and caught you in the face. Who's responsibily would that be??

Next time tell him to tend his lines.

I would have called the cops to intervene long before I would have paid him any amount over $50. Cops usually tend to side with the guy who is not out of control, yelling obscenities and acting like a jackass.

You both have the responsibility to keep clear of each other, you were both equally wrong, in my opinion, but his actions afterwards put him more in the wrong. And he didn't have to hit you for it to be assault, verbal threats are enough. You should have called a cop, maybe that alone would have sent him on his way, without your $250.

Although I didn't witness the incident I was sailing in the race. I would venture to say that the lake is one of the most sailed on lakes anywhere. Regattas take place nearly every weekend during the warm months. The 8 marks on the lake are essentially permanent when the ice is off the lake. Some marks are very close to shore, which facilitates great spectating but brings the sailing close to shore.

So unless it was the fisherman's very first time there ever, he should have known what was going on.

Basically, an unfortunate "accident" occurred. Rhino on his Nacra 5.8na had no way to avoid the lines by the time they were visible without ramming a Bimare XJ. No one was injured, just a $20 WalMart fishing pole goes in the drink. Normal humans would have discussed and resolved it. At most, Rhino could have offered to split the cost of a replacement as a goodwill gesture but not an admission of culpability.

When the "victim" went berserk (my kids heard him cussin' 300 yards away), the police should have been called. The likely outcome would have been: Drunk Fisherman Disrupts Regatta.

Instead, Rhino pays $250...outrageous. So why did it happen?

Other well-meaning sailors on the beach--not wanting bad blood with other boaters (and I understand that)--sided with the ranting, out of control "victim," claiming they would help pay for the lost gear. Well, they and their check books all disappeared as soon as the crazy man felt validated.

Rhino, I say cancel the check!

I'm happy to share the water with powerboaters, fisherman, swimmers, etc; but it makes no sense to validate irrational and unjustified tirades.

I had a fisherman cast infront of me as I came past with the kite up in the Hurricane 5.9

No time to avoid etc.

He got real shitty, wrote to the sailing club sailing I had taken his lines. Very litte I Could do. I paid up "without admitting liability". I know avoid these people if at all possible. A small number (I assume) They cause problems out of spite (and wish for financial gain).

Put it doen to experience, but I would have called the Cops as someone said above "Drunk fisherman causes regatta problems, goes mad infront of kids etc.."

OK..... Racing on our local bay, we are coming down wind under spinnaker. There is a boat moored close to a lay line obviously fishing. We pass atleat 50 feet from one side of the boat and snag 3 lines tipping the lures of them.

My problem is why do they have to cast out so far if they are in a boat...... And how the hell are we to see which direction they go out in and how far until its too late. The lines are near invisable and cast out that far, our deep boards will pick them from a fair distance underwater.

Atferwards we slowed down, said sorry and continued. Next lap we gave them a wave again and appologiesd again. They later chased down our start boat and was very abusive stating that we cost them about $90 AU in lures.

tell the guy that you are fully insured for your activity and it is probably best that they sort this issue out bearing in mind the 'large' claim that he is making, and give him your insurance details , then ask him for his insurance details that cover him for what he was doing - that shuts them up!

The rights of way rules try to give right of way to the least manouverable/slowest boat. so you were probably in the wrong - but never admit it.

I still want to know what the guy expected to happen to his rod and reel if he hooked a fish.

To get right of way becouse you are hindered by fishing equipment, you need to show the proper day signals as you do at night with lanterns. In this case, it was not obvious that they was fishing, did not fly any signals, and thus can not claim that the cat should have understood that they was fishing (might be some vessel size limitations on this). The least they could have done was to shout a warning and show their fishing-rods.

Routing this to the insurance companies is probably the best answer. De-fuses the situation and leaves it to a third party to decide what should be done. If the fisherman dont accept that, call the cops and ask for help.

Exactly what I was going to say

He probably would have sued the fish or national lake management for the US$ 250 rod and reel.

Wouter

Good lord, not another government bureaucracy!

I'm not on the fisherman's side on this. Just because you have some invisible lines coming off the back of your boat doesn't give you right of way. (or the right to be a jackass)

Didn't some W1000 sailor one time get a fisherman arrested for casting a lure into his spinnaker? I seem to remember that happening.

That guy got his fishing license jacked for life at Hattaras.

It was during the Worrell 1000 and the fleet was approaching Cape Hatteras. We (ground crew, media, etc) had jumped on local SUVs and had made it out to the point. There were hundreds of fishermen there.
One of the event officials notified everyone that the boats would be coming soon and they pass very close to shore.

One particular fisherman muttered, "OK Boys, Target practice!"
I was video taping Randy Smyth as he came close by the point with his spinnaker up. Suddenly, from the side of my camera a casting rod flicked, the line spun out and a huge lead sinker (pointed and with a hook right below flew out, went across the kite and ripped the sail in two."

A bunch of sailors jumped the guy and held him. Soon the Ranger showed up and tried to sort it all out. He was not sure what had happened and the fisherman denied anything.

I politely asked the Ranger to look at the video I had just taken. The Ranger grabbed the guy and arrested him on the spot. He has since been banned from fishing on Hatteras and had to pay for the sail.
They talked about jail time, but I don't believe that happened.., too bad!

Had that sinker hit one of the sailors it would have killed them. It was big and heavy and sharp.
Rick

A couple of stories happened at the Dam Regatta at a reservoir in Columbus, Ohio.

Mary and I were on a Hobie 18 and there almost no wind (pretty typical) and we stayed right on the line. With about a minute to go a fisherman buzzed up and sat there right in the middle of the line.
The RC was yelling at him to get out of the way and he stubbornly replied, "This is MY fishing hole!"

The next year Tom Tannert's son was leading a Hobie 18 race, rounded the leeward mark and headed up wind. Somehow he caught a fisherman line and broke it (nothing lost, just a lure.., or perhaps only a hook and a worm)
The next lap around the guy jumped in the water and grabbed his rudder and would not let go.

They do seem to mark to a different drum. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Rick

Hey All,

I was at the event, though I heard of the incident 2nd hand as well…
That Pete drove over this fisherman’s essentially invisible line and maybe pulled a pole from THE BOTTOM of his boat , is distantly secondary to the violent, irrational reaction that he "provoked".Why are we so willing to pound insane , violent and purely cathartic behavior, into an entirely false context of establishing fault ?! The is a world class example of the increasingly pervasive "on the edge / social pathology" that will eventually visit all of us…This guy was certain to explode at someone that morning.If the guys on Rhino hadn’t provided a conduit for that violence, I suspect the victim would have been much younger, more proximal and would have addressed this poor nut as Daddy…
Rhino, your $250 likely bought an eight year old girl her front teeth and delayed the reception of a memory that’ll wound her long after the damage is repaired…


Paul

2005 Hobie 16 North Americans, Ventura, CA - the upwind legs were very one-sided. Start on stbd., tack as soon as you could, then bang the right corner (if you could clear the Ventura Pier).


In the first race, one of the Puerto Rican teams was leading us into the weather mark when I noticed a fishing line zipping through the water behind him - he had snagged it on his sail. He evenually did two laps around the course and made it to the beach with it still attached. Never heard what the fisherman said - they were 50 ft over our heads on the pier. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

8 marks, central Cal location...they must have been racing at Huntington Lake in the western Sierras. It is one of the premier sailing venues in the western US. I've had similar situations with fishermen at Huntington over the years. It's best to give them a wide berth. They don't know the rules so stay away and avoid them. What they don't realize is how nicely a rudder or daggerboard will cause them to part with their favorite lure or rod. Just stay clear. I would have taken it up with the local authorities and let the insurance company handle it. Was he displaying a trolling flag as required on inland CA lakes?

I "spooled" a kid fishing off the beach on Cape Cod while sailing a couple of years ago. The kid's lure caught my rudder and hooked in solidly as I sailed by on a reach at a high speed. The kid thought he had caught a whale. Later on, when I landed on the beach, Dad came walking up, looked at me with an annoyed look as I handed him his kid's lure.

I'll never forget the sight of the kid with his rod bent over and the sound of the drag as all of his line was stripped.

Good times.

Tell Your Buddy to Stop Payment on the Check ASAP and when the idiot comes looking for the money that he extorted with his anger, tell him you have been advised to contact either your insurance company, or the police, you choose.

$250.00 ! ? ! ?
Wow - I would want to see his receipt for that rod and reel, it must be a nice one. I suppose you just wanted to shut the lunatic up but $250.00 !!! I agree with CraigO ... Stop payment.

This looks to me like positive reinforcement for obnoxious and outrageous behavior. The fisherman and his children have learned that if you throw a fit you’ll get what you want, even if it isn’t the “RIGHT” thing. I think the check should be canceled and if you have a way to contact him, tell you’re doing it and why!!!

while I side with you guys, I think he's asking for additional problems by canceling the check...especially now that the guy (obviously a jerk) has his home address.

With regards to the home address, I may have found an unexpected side-benefit to driving 8 hours to a regatta...

Shoot...he'd be out of beer and have to turn around after three hours in the car. You're way safe! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now that's looking on the bright side.

Around here the pecking order is by age of the activity.
Fishermen, both diving and pole, surfers, sailboards, then kite surfers. Cats rate near boards or kites. The smartest sailors and surfers stay well away from fishermen. i personally am constantly asking my crew to look for divers.
As Rick implies, fisherman are a strange breed. There have been stories of conspiracies to screw with sailors(and surfers of old) by fishermen. The guy could well have been out trolling for an accident the way some do in traffic. He obiviously wasn't planning on hooking a fish if his pole wasn't hooked to the boat.

Undoubtedly an interesting topic. Me and my dad sail a Taipan 5,7 in the inner Oslo fjord. Here, as in Norway and even Scandinavia in general, high tech beach cats and even h16s are quite rare. Therefore we tend to draw alot of attention from other boats on the water. Mostly this is quite nice as we do want publicity around cat sailing in Norway so that more sailors will get their head out of their a.. and start sailing cats.. However, when screaming down wind in 17-20 knots with the kite up trying to bear away as a gust hits us and motor boats starts lining up next to us 2 meters to leeward to get a better view and thus preventing us to bear off, you can get a bit annoyed. You simply have to keep in mind that few people on the water knows how fast things happen on cats and what the consequenses of a big cart wheel may be...

I find it interesting that alot of you said he should have called the cops when the guy became abusive. Would the cops have come out for that?

I doubt if they would in the UK.

Gareth

Here in Florida, we have a no retreat law. If you feel your life is in danger, you can just shoot the s.o.b. If the guy was really irate, I would have called 911 just to be on the record.

To my knowledge, the law has not been tested. The cops don't like it, so who knows how they would react.

I believe they would have come here in Norway, if the situation was reported as a fight about to commence or that someone felt threatened.

Rolf is making the point. The correct day-signal is the hour-glass, please find a drawing attached. I know we are talking about a smaller vessel here, but as long as the engine is larger than 5HP, the signal must be shown.
In my sailing-area (Baltic Sea, Germany) we have right next to our club a bunch of fishermen - and of course none of them is showing the signal. This is fine with me, but then it is their responsiblity to make me aware of their lines - in time.

If this would have happen to me, I would try to stop as soon as possible and return to the fisherman to solve the problem on the spot. May be I'd have offered him some money, but this offer would have been withdrawn as soon as he started insulting me.

Pete - check the news this morning. Some dude just used this law, effectively, I might add, in our area.

Some masked guy was in a homeowner's bushes at night allegedly trying to film the resident's kid (for the purpose of proving the kid was abusing the neighbor.

Homeowner "dropped a cap" (shot) in the masked man, killing him (if I read the news correctly).

The homeowner is using the "stand your ground" defense, and it appears to be holding water....

So let this be a message to anyone traveling in Florida. Lose your temper and you could lose your life! Road-rage tourists beware!

The crew cut the check so let him come and see how much more trouble he can create at thier address.The state will send him up the river and the kids will live the rest of their lives at a bunny farm because of the near death experiance. Thanks to the demand by the sail community carbon fibre/graphite rods have sky-rocket in cost add to that a No.3 Dale Earnhardt signature series open spool titanium geared reel and your talking mortgage. I think he threw the rod out of the boat. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ahhh, maybe the rod/reel never actually left the boat ...

...simply found a nice hiding place to be accompanied later by the Titanium Signature Series Dale Earnhardt, Jr open spooled reel and the carbon fiber pole <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I live out in the desert, 8 miles from the nearest paved road and many more from the nearest town. I'm not under any obligation to treat hostile visitors delicately, and I wouldn't. I can't imagine that there's anybody who doesn't understand that screwing with folks who live in rural Nevada is a very bad idea.

Unfortunately he has my crew's address, not mine so he'll be the one to deal with any fall-out. I feel pretty bad about that, because I was the one at the helm making the decisions. Still, he's quite capable of taking care of himself.

Guys, this is a crazy thread. The fisherman could have easily lost a $250 rig. I own 7 freshwater setups valued way over $250 and saltwater rigs over $500. He's not required to fly any kind of flag when fishing or trolling. If the rods were in the boat he was most likely bottom fishing and drifting. 10 feet was not enough room to stay clear of his lines regardless. His attitude was unquestionably wrong, but the sailboat captain didn't even slow down to apologize. The hostility presented by several responders here is hard to swallow. I sail in the SE Atlantic where there are shrimp trawlers, parasail boats and tournament fishing boats everywhere. If you crossed any of these boats lines you would be at fault. The shrimper would damage your boat with his cables, the tournament fisherman would run you down and expect payment and probably attempt to kick your butt, the parasailer would report you to the authorities or worse. Motorboat operators are the most uninformed group on the water. They don't know the rules and most of them don't care until something happens. The fishermans technique was wrong, but he was in the right and the sailor was wrong. Also freshwater fishermen almost never fish under their boat so lines will always extend some distance in the water, keep clear. 10ft is not keeping clear of a fishing vessel.

Charge him for damage to your rudders.

Rhino....

Where were you racing when it happened? Huntington or Big Bear? Just curious.

To clear things up, here's the definition from the USCG on a fishing vessel. No regular boat fishing really fits the definition. Doesn't keep the people fishing from trying to claim it, though.

From Rule 3, General Definitions, Section D:

"The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability."

Had a fishing boat drop his net just off our club beach a few months back. It's a big club, tens of boats out on a busy weekend, well known to all, and not usually a fishing area. Had his net floats far apart, so they were almost impossible to see in the chop. Ran into it double trapped - 12 to zero instantly... violent visit to the forestay... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Big chip in the leading edge of the daggerboard...
Finally had a reason to use the knife we carry in our vests <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Three other boats ran into nets that day, several sailors sported nice bruises for a while <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Guess it's better to carry a rod away then run into a net

Thanks Keith ,
I tried to say that about 20 post ago, I guess I wasn't clear.

Team Cat Fever

That boy's as strong as an ox, and just about as smart.

Good thing this is a polite forum...

Yes, and I also mentioned it in the fourth post in this thread, yet it seemed to keep permeating things. Thought I'd try to kill it off.

[/quote]That boy's as strong as an ox, and just about as smart. [/quote]

Hey J,
Is that some kinda sarcasm?

I will tell ya this boy, you can't argue with figures. Two half nothins is a whole nothin.

I thought you didn't talk *NOODLE*?

Don't be messing with TAWD, or anyone that used to live near the Po White Parkway! They may not have teeth, but they got teeth, if ya get my drift.
Why one time we were enjoying large chunks of burning cow on BJ's (gotta love a woman named BJ) patio when one of the local monoslug sailors got too upity. TAWD sentanced him right then and there to a drinking contest to atone for his sins. Adam steped up to the plate, and a couple of dozen shots of pussers rum later was pronounced the winner. The loser puked in his new car and on his wife driving his sorry butt home. By now you are proly wondering what the moral of the story is, don't, there isn't one. Morals are for church, and this aint sunday.

Anyone want to see powerboaters even stupider the fishermen?

http://www.heytone.com/movies/wegowipeout3.html

Sail fast
Take chances
don't hit fishermen (just trying to stay on topic)

Eric Anderson

Man, you got a good memory. Dem was da good ol days, cuz.

Seriously? Couldn't I bring up some cookout at so and so and a throw down drinking contest and not hit some memory left in some brain cell somewhere? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We're still quoting "gee tawd, you look tired"...."man, I feel like I've been eaten by a wolf and $hit off a cliff".

PS - dude....let's go racing.

"I said,I said, Jakey boy,your built to low.The fast ones go over your head.Ya got a hole in your glove.I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em.Ya gotta keep your eye on the ball. Eye. Ball.Almost had a gag,boy.Joke that is."
Jake and Eric,
Shoot me an E-mail if either of ya wanna sail sometime.We can use my grown-up boat, it cuts right through fishing lines.
Todd(at)teamcatfever(dot)com