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F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!!

Posted By: Tom Korz

F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 02:06 PM

Who's yer driver!!!

F18 Worlds
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 02:18 PM

I'm hoping that the USA shows strong contention ... I'm routing for our local's Alex and Nigel!
Posted By: Acat230

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 03:19 PM

The Euros know how to run a world class event no matter the racing class! The race program is awesome. Should be a fun event to follow. It will be interesting to see the showdown with the new designs against the Tiger. Hobie for sure has the guns sailing the Tigers (the Booths and Bundock/Ashby).
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 03:25 PM

Hey Jake

are Alex and Nigel sailing an infusion over there?
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 04:29 PM

Quote
Hey Jake

are Alex and Nigel sailing an infusion over there?


I really don't know - but I would assume so.

Say...they should be nearing completion of racing for today - anyone got any news? I haven't been able to find anything on the website yet.
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 04:36 PM

are the numbers of entries per country based on total class members from that country?
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 05:08 PM

Yes, each country is limited to a specific number of slots based on their membership. I believe we are limited in NA to 6 slots in the current being. Those slots are usually assigned through finish position at the North American Championship...but I believe it can also go through the regatta points system. With a 14th place NA finish and a 10th place points finish, David and I were offered one of the slots...but it takes a lot of time and ching to do that! Neither of which we have an over-abundence of.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 06:46 PM

Can anyone give me an idea of who is racing a tiger, infusion, cirrus, mattia, capricorn or 4x? Also, which sailors are pros?
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 07:42 PM

Results are up...

http://www.f18worlds2006.com/resultats/index_q.htm

Looks like Greg and Jacques are doing OK.
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 08:36 PM

I think that 10 of the 1st 11 are tigers with the odd one out being Ned76 which is a Cap.
As far as Pro goes, I struggle to kep tabs on who is getting money chucked at them for what!
Posted By: Wouter

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 10:33 PM



Numbers 4, the brothers Sach sailed a capricorn F18 in last years F18 Worlds. I doubt whether they are now sailing Tiger, but I'm not sure.

Mark Laruffa launched his own Predator F18 design last year, wouldn't he be sailing his own design ?

Wouter
Posted By: PpS

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/10/06 11:28 PM

Rumor is that Laruffa has a chartered Tiger.

Speaking of rumors I heard that the Nacra is not built at max beam. Could that be true?

BTW I say Ashby wins by 10 pts.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 02:15 AM

Mark L is sailing a chartered Tiger (or at least he was going to be when I last spoke to him two weeks ago, and the 4 digit sail number suggests its true). He is currently working on the mark 2 version of the preditor and has been racing both a Tiger and Capricorn in Aus. He has just sold his Tiger and intended on shipping his Capricorn over for the worlds. Unfortunately a mix up meant that the Capricorn was left out of the container, so he ended up with the chartered Tiger.

Surely the Nacra is at full beam. They wouldn't make the same mistake twice.
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 05:57 AM

Quote

Mark Laruffa launched his own Predator F18 design last year, wouldn't he be sailing his own design ?
Wouter


AFAIK the Predator didnt pan out as well as he hoped. He has a Capricorn at home but the sail number looks Tiger on the results sheet.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 09:43 AM

Not exactly the Round texel website is it!
Posted By: PpS

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 11:32 AM

Quote
Surely the Nacra is at full beam. They wouldn't make the same mistake twice.


So the old Nacra design was not full beam but the new design (Infusion) is? What could possibly have been the logic for a catamaran that was not at max beam?
Posted By: Boomer

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 11:40 AM

Mark is on a Tiger, Picture 5 in gallery 10-07 shows da couple
Posted By: phill

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 12:40 PM

Quote

So the old Nacra design was not full beam but the new design (Infusion) is? What could possibly have been the logic for a catamaran that was not at max beam?

The F18 at 2.6m beam is too wide to tow legally in some countries like Australia.
So the Nacras were released at a 2.5m beam which is legal.
The only problem here was the other F18 manufacturers were willing to take the gamble and released 2.6m boats.

Later on Nacra released an upgrade kit here to widen the boats to the 2.6m beam. I don't know if it is true but I was told that you had to have a tilt trailer before they would sell the kit to you.

Basically unless you have a tilt trailer, or in some states, a special permit the F18s are being towed illegally.

I'd hate to clean up a push bike up with the bow of a hull.
I think Nacra reasoned that they would be partially lible.

I guess there are other countries with the same problem?

Regards,
Phill
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 01:03 PM

Legal trailering width here in the states is 8.5' (2.6 meters). I haven't measured but I would assume that my F18 is max beam.
Posted By: phill

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 01:06 PM

Jake,
That is how I figured it would be. I think they only released the narrower beam where they would run into problems.
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 01:08 PM

F18 Australia has a disclamer on there web site stating....

Quote
The Australian F18 Association reminds all F18 owners that due to various width configurations you may or may not need a permit to transport you boat. Please contact your state RTA for further information on road safety.


I assume the manufactures also have something of simular effect in their owners manual.

For me..... I am not going to risk towing illegal and have made a tilt trailer.

As for Laruffa..... Confirmed, he is on a Charter Tiger and all what Scarecrow said is accurate. Seen the model of the Predator MkII and it looks HOT.......

For anybody that does not know, Mark is the Chairman of the AUS 2007 F18 Worlds Committee and is the main driving force behind the event. He is also backed up by many hardworking AUS F18 sailors on the committee, many of whome have taken a short break to attend the Hyeres Worlds and market our Worlds too the Internationals.

Been a very big work load on these guys (and will continue to be) which has realy chewed into their 06 Worlds preperation. Lets hope that it does not show in the results for them.
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 01:20 PM

Quote
Quote
Surely the Nacra is at full beam. They wouldn't make the same mistake twice.


So the old Nacra design was not full beam but the new design (Infusion) is? What could possibly have been the logic for a catamaran that was not at max beam?



People talking .rap and idiots believing it
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 01:43 PM

Quote
Quote
Quote
Surely the Nacra is at full beam. They wouldn't make the same mistake twice.


So the old Nacra design was not full beam but the new design (Infusion) is? What could possibly have been the logic for a catamaran that was not at max beam?



People talking .rap and idiots believing it


It is fact in Australia...... Call up Brisbane Cat Centre (NACRA Australia) if you doubt it or talk to any of the AUS F18 sailors.

It was a big mistake by NACRA Aus to reduce the width and it quickly showed in the first AUS F18 Championships. They later offered the kite to people and the NACRA performace increased........ But the mud stuck and a lot of good sailors would not buy a NARCA here. Therefore results indicated that it was still not a fast boat an less people bought them. The new NACRA is a blessing for AUS and will help to shake of some of the mud.

The good news is that there are plenty of fast full width NACRAs in Oz at the moment for a steal. Overlook the past and you have a competitive boat.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 04:32 PM

Quote
Seen the model of the Predator MkII and it looks HOT.......


what does Mk stand for? Mark? What does that mean? I see this all over the place in sailboat names. I tried to figure it out a bit back through google, but could not.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 05:36 PM

Spot on : second release of an original model: Mark II.
Example : Deep Purple stopped being Deep Purple at the start of Mark 3 :-(
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/11/06 10:25 PM

Quote
Quote
Seen the model of the Predator MkII and it looks HOT.......


what does Mk stand for? Mark? What does that mean? I see this all over the place in sailboat names. I tried to figure it out a bit back through google, but could not.


As in Mark II or their second version of the design.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: HobieZealot

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/12/06 11:27 AM

Do the finals start today?
Posted By: HobieZealot

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/12/06 04:47 PM

Quote
Hey Jake

are Alex and Nigel sailing an infusion over there?


Looks like it.

[Linked Image]

That is them isn't it?

Attached picture 80621-f18-157.jpg
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/12/06 05:03 PM

yeah - that's them. Where did you find that pic?
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/12/06 05:09 PM

yeah that looks like the patented Nigel Kneeling Steering Stance.

Wonder if he did that while steering the VX40 too <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/12/06 07:49 PM

According to a post made by Alex over at 1design.net, they didn't get any races in today - they were called off the beach twice but couldn't make it happen due to lack of breeze.
Posted By: mmiller

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/12/06 08:54 PM

[Linked Image]

Here is a shot of Greg Thomas and Jacques Bernier. They are the top US team after 5 races. They are in 13th. The worst race they have is an 11th (a 2nd yesterday). With this group...you don't get many breaks! Looks like Nigel and Alex are next best Americans in 77th
Posted By: Brian_Mc

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 12:24 AM

Very cool! Thanks for the pics guys!
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 03:46 AM

Quote from Andrew Holden AUS F18 Secretary

Quote

Spoke to Mal Richardson this AM from France -

Monday - 10knts winds on first day
Tuesday - VERY light and patchy.
Wednesday - NO Wind and no racing
Forcast for Thursday is good - should have racing

Mal was unsure whether they will try and complete the qualifying or go straight to the Gold/Silver fleets for tomorrows racing.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 06:32 AM

What I really don't get is why the organisation doesn't bring any news on their website. Now thanks to rumours and some networking skills (thnx TA) we know that wednesday was a perfect day to get a suntan on the beach.

grrr.
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 08:47 AM

Reports from Jacques Bernier

Day 1
Quote

Well after much drama and nearly missed flights and lost bags on Air Chance (France) we actually made it onto the water. I tell you - between Greg almost not making it - then all my gear going missing with the airline.. there was bound to be something else go wrong.

Of course this morning as we tried to leave the boat park - we put a hole in the side of the boat. (Smacked a trailer on the beach)
This meant we had to find some tape - and find it quick.... Luckily for us Alberto from Italy was still around and had some for us.

Our results I think we OK - we improved as the day wore on - our top finish is a third. Tomorrows races will finish the qualifying and we'll begin racing head to head with the top 80+ teams out of over 160 - they split the field into two groups - gold and silver and we're obviously hoping to be in the top group (I think that's a definite at this point)

So for tomorrow hopefully more of the same conditions.. So far the weather has been nice - really hot with good winds....and the bread is good.

No Internet at the site - so I'm writing this on the neighbor's computer until I can find a spot to hook up.

Follow the action at the web site for the event:

http://f18worlds2006.com/


Thanks to our sponsors:

Hobie Cat Co.
Hobie Polarized
Kokatat

update - just checked the results and we're in 9th at the moment.
One guy had a bad accident with a port boat as they were just turning and flying the spi downwind - he was hit in the face - broken jaw - huge slice - concussion and broken shoulder... he's pretty bad. Our roommates from Australia rescued the guy from the water - it happen just in front of us however we didn't see it or notice the crew in the water...
We will all be pulling for him...he's in local hospital in Toulon.


MORE

Quote

The Nacracorns are a couple up the front.. Misch of course... Helge and CHristian are doing well on the Capri

Other than those... not sure who you're not sure of.. there are like 6 or 7 Tigers in the top ten after day one... but now I don't know.. pretty much all even-steven.. some boats are better in light air it seems.. but it's all so close.. that's why they call it a formula..I think its working.

Sorry I didn't write last night... couldn't find any Internet connection.

Yesterday we had two challenging races in very little wind....it was just like home in San Diego..... We had another good result of a second place - placing us among the leaders... We are just a few points from the top five at the moment.

Since today there was no racing (though we did sail out twice to the course but only to be sent back due to dying wind) we are still trying to complete the qualifying... we need one more race to equal things up to split into two separate fleets.

Some news on the German crew who was injured - he's had an operation to wire shut his jaw and fix the cut to his face... as well some pins to his shoulder. He is still in local hospital and we're all relieved to know he's going to recover.

A few teams were randomly checked for measurement after the days races yesterday and weighed. All boats were light making for some interesting protests... Today we started our day building a paddle to comply with another rule which was challenged by the Dutch team who had earlier been disqualified due to being under weight. SO the organizers had the scales calibrated and all teams were re-measured and I think they have all been disqualified from their last race (Lucky for Darren Bundock it was his worst race)

So... now we wait to see what the decision is for the final qualifying races so that we can get into the finals and challenge for a top spot.

I have heard the weather is expected to be more of the same... really hot, and little wind. (though some people claim tomorrow is expected allot of wind... we'll see) Hopefully there is at least enough to sail - we like it when there are mild conditions. Looking forward to more competition tomorrow.

Tonight a bunch of the teams are making a new race at the local go-karting track... this is something I know a little about - so hopefully we can spank these Euros on the track too! ha-ha.

Follow the racing at: http://f18worlds2006.com/

More tomorrow..
Posted By: Boomer

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 11:41 AM

The Dutchies mentioned in TA's quote appeared to be Remco Kenbeek and Paul Brouwer (duh?)
Wonder what happened to that race. As far as I can see, the results of only 5 races are on the website.
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 11:51 AM

Hey Jacques! If only they had a foos ball table! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Get 'em guys!
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 12:05 PM

Quote
A few teams were randomly checked for measurement after the days races yesterday and weighed. All boats were light making for some interesting protests... Today we started our day building a paddle to comply with another rule


Boats being under weight <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Anyone know by how much ?

Also re the paddle, do people not read their own class rules ? !
Posted By: mmiller

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 05:18 PM

Greg and Jacques moved up today!

Through 6 races (today they had a 6th...in the sixth...that is interesting!) they are in 8th now. They are in very good position to move up significantly as they have yet to take a bad race. All but two teams in front of them has a bigger throw out. Note that Bundock dropped to 6th by having another bigger number to swallow!

Nigel and Alex took a DNF and are now in 89th which is into the silver fleet if they do a cut tonight.
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 05:29 PM

Any idea for the reason behind the DNF?
Posted By: F18OxJ

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 05:53 PM

So top ten after six races:

1 FRA 11 MOURNIAC Jean Christoph CITEAU Franck
Tiger

2 GER 143 SACH Helge (M1956) SACH Christian (M1958)
Capricorn

3 FRA 555 BESSON Billy (M1981) JARLEGAN Arnaud (M1976)
Tiger?

4 NED 76 VAN DER MEULEN Reindert Jan (F1965) KNOL Carina
Tiger?

5 NED 1 KENBEEK Remco (M1972) BROUWER Paul (M1962)
Capricorn

6 AUS 7 BUNDOCK Darren (M1971) ASHBY Glenn (M1977)
Tiger

7 ESP 21 ECHAVARRI Fernando (M1972) PAZ Anton (M1976)
Tiger?

8 USA 2136 THOMAS Greg (M1969) BERNIER Jacques (M1970)
Tiger

9 AUS 2137 LARUFFA Mark (M1960) WILSON Bradley (M1973)
Tiger

10 NED 11 BOOTH Mitch (M1963) DERCKSEN Herbert (M1985)
Tiger

Any non-pros besides Greg and Jacq in this group? Remco and the French team maybe?
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 06:04 PM

I think that NED76 are non-pro sailors (it doesn't seem fair to refer to them as "amateurs").
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 06:22 PM

I can’t think of another sport where pros regularly compete against amateurs. It is kind of weird when you think about it.
Posted By: mmiller

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 06:22 PM

Jacques reports that Nigel and Alex actually pulled out of the regatta.
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 06:30 PM

VAN DER MEULEN is on a Capricorn i think
Posted By: tback

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 06:58 PM

Quote
I can’t think of another sport where pros regularly compete against amateurs. It is kind of weird when you think about it.


Distance running is another sport where you can compete with pro's (and World Record Holders).
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 07:35 PM

Quote
VAN DER MEULEN is on a Capricorn i think

yep
Posted By: mmiller

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 10:28 PM

Shake up!

With protests decided. Bundock moved up again to 4th, Greg and Jacques... now in 7th.
Posted By: HobieZealot

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/13/06 11:32 PM

Quote
Jacques reports that Nigel and Alex actually pulled out of the regatta.


Why is that?
Anyone injured?
Posted By: mbounds

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 12:32 AM

From Jacques:
Quote
The other USA team of Nigel Pitt and Alex Schaffer pulled out today - citing poor results and much work at home as the reasons


When it stops being fun, it's time to pull the plug.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 01:40 AM

Down here that's called spitting the dummy, bad form when every single country had a waiting list of people wanting to attend just for the fun of it.
Posted By: HobieZealot

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 01:44 AM

Quote
Down here that's called spitting the dummy, bad form when every single country had a waiting list of people wanting to attend just for the fun of it.


Agreed
Bad form and bad sportsmanship
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 06:45 AM

More from Jacques Bernier


Quote

Well, what can I say... there isn't much wind in the south of France in July.... we've become experts at launching... we get sent out... then we bob around for a while, only to be sent back to the beach... then we head back out and bob around and wait...

We did actually get in one race today. For some of the front guys there were some problems. Bundy went hard right in the first fleet, however the wind filled from the left and he was out of luck. He's now keeping a 19. Next was Mischa - taking a drop race... and then Mark Laruffa from OZ fell back too.

We're now sitting nicely in 8th, only some points out of a top five (which I thought would never be possible.. but here we are anyway!)

There are quite allot of protest on right now.. so I have no firm idea of what exactly will turn out for the a.m.

This place has had it all - and the committee is doing the best they can, but when the winds are only 6 knots and then the fleet has three generals - its hard to get races off.

Tomorrow will be the last day... there is suppose to be a Gold and Silver split - but I still have't figured out who's in or who's out.
The other USA team of Nigel Pitt and Alex Schaffer pulled out today - citing poor results and much work at home as the reasons... just passing that along to those who might not know they bailed.
OK - so tomorrow it's all on!

See ya-

JB

Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 06:51 AM

Quote

9 AUS 2137 LARUFFA Mark (M1960) WILSON Bradley (M1973)
Tiger

Any non-pros besides Greg and Jacq in this group? Remco and the French team maybe?


Marks not a pro
Posted By: Berny

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 07:54 AM

Mark's not a pro. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Wouter

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 08:09 AM




When the going gets tough, the tough get going

Wouter
Posted By: Wouter

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 08:11 AM


Remco

sails for himself he has a boat dealing business and chandlery shop. I guess he is pro therefor

I think

VAN DER MEULEN Reindert Jan (F1965)
KNOL Carina (F1976)

are not pro's either


Wouter
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 04:21 PM

Provisional results go;
Cap
Tiger
Cap
Tiger
Infusion

for the top 5, pretty good mix.
Last day was 12-14 knots and bright sunshine
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 05:37 PM

Quote
Quote
Down here that's called spitting the dummy, bad form when every single country had a waiting list of people wanting to attend just for the fun of it.


Agreed
Bad form and bad sportsmanship


Agreed, Very bad form as people (I assume) were queueing up to go to the event. If I was the one on the list who did not meet the cut I'd be (just a tad) pissed off that someone just gave up.
Posted By: mmiller

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 05:48 PM

Oh noooo.... Looks like Greg and Jacques had a bad day. Down at 19th sucking up some pretty bad finishes. 68 / 4 / 44 No report as to why. Wow. worst race before that was an 11th. Something went wrong.
Posted By: Wouter

Do we have new F18 world champions ? - 07/14/06 06:10 PM


Are

SACH Helge (M1956)
SACH Christian (M1958)

The new F18 world champions (at age 50 and 48 !!!)

Wouter
Posted By: Wouter

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 06:11 PM



Does Landenberg sail a Capricorn F18 ?

Wouter
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 06:33 PM

Quote
Quote
Quote
Down here that's called spitting the dummy, bad form when every single country had a waiting list of people wanting to attend just for the fun of it.


Agreed
Bad form and bad sportsmanship


Agreed, Very bad form as people (I assume) were queueing up to go to the event. If I was the one on the list who did not meet the cut I'd be (just a tad) pissed off that someone just gave up.


I'm not defending their actions but just pointing out that there was not a waiting list for a slot in the US / Canada.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 07:47 PM

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Down here that's called spitting the dummy, bad form when every single country had a waiting list of people wanting to attend just for the fun of it.


Agreed
Bad form and bad sportsmanship


Agreed, Very bad form as people (I assume) were queueing up to go to the event. If I was the one on the list who did not meet the cut I'd be (just a tad) pissed off that someone just gave up.


I'm not defending their actions but just pointing out that there was not a waiting list for a slot in the US / Canada.


Were there any spare slots available ?
Posted By: Boomer

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 08:20 PM

Yeah, not all 160 slots were taken some 2 weeks prior to the event, so they made it an open event (pay and sail).
That caused some stir within some local F18-comittees who wanted to send the boats/sailors who were on their reserve-list.
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 09:10 PM

Quote


Were there any spare slots available ?


I believe we did fill them all.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 09:34 PM

Jake

What do you think was a reasonable budget estimate for doing the F18 Worlds? Including Reg, Air fair, food and lodging plus the cost of chartering or shippnig your boat and insurance.

Its got to be a signifiant sum!
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 10:28 PM

Quote
Jake

What do you think was a reasonable budget estimate for doing the F18 Worlds? Including Reg, Air fair, food and lodging plus the cost of chartering or shippnig your boat and insurance.

Its got to be a signifiant sum!


No doubt! I've not attended anything overseas with my equipment but I've traveled a bit internationally and our company ships a good bit overseas. Off the top of my head; without a big concentrated effort with several teams involved (i.e. an individual effort) you're probably looking at $10,000 by the time you get two (at least) people and boat there, eat and sleep for a week or better, and get back home.

That said, I believe most of the US teams have chartered boats on site.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 10:29 PM

Quote
Quote


Were there any spare slots available ?


I believe we did fill them all.


So someone could (maybe) have gone instead of the pair that "just gave up".
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/14/06 10:40 PM

There was not anyone else expressing a desire to go.
Posted By: BrianK

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/15/06 04:02 AM

Before you get too ugly I know in the past month Alex and Nigel traveled to Rotterdam to sail the Extreme 40s, then traveled to Texel to do the Around Texel, flew home then back to France for the F18s. Maybe they were just burnt out.

Anyway, congratulations to Greg and Jacques for a fantastic regatta! Seems just getting in the top 20 is an accomplishment.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/15/06 04:45 AM

I'm doing the math for Aus in Feb... About $2k in airfare per person, $1,500 for a charter, $175/night lodging (10 days for $1,750 per room). Beer money still could be largest expense... $10K is a good ball park, Jakers. Wanna go? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/15/06 12:24 PM

sure! You buyin? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: David Parker

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/15/06 03:04 PM

Quote
Beer money still could be largest expense... $10K is a good ball park


<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
You are one bad butt dude!
Posted By: ratherbsailing

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 09:34 AM

does any one no what boats the top place sailors were sailing at the worlds thanks
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 09:40 AM

1 GER 143 - Capricorn
Helge Sach / Christian Sach

2 AUS 7 - Hobie
Darren Bundock / Glenn Ashby

3 GER 308 - Capricorn
Andrew Landenberger / Felix Egner

4 FRA 11 - Hobie
Jean Christoph Mourniac / Franck Citeau

5 NED 578 - Nacra Infusion
Wouter Samama / Jeroen Van Leeuwen

Just got this e-mail from Greg Goodall

Quote
Hi all,

Hopefully you have been watching the F18 world’s results; 1st Christian and Helge Sach, and 3rd Andrew Landenberger and Felix Egner was a fantastic result for the Capricorn. We had about 35 boats in the fleet of 160. This made us the 2nd biggest class of F18 at the Worlds and we had by far the best result. We also won 1st place in the silver fleet. It’s good for F18 sailing to show that talented sailors on a very good boat can still beat the professional teams.



We will keep working hard to make the Capricorn even better and faster before the next Worlds. Over the next 12 months we have a great opportunity to establish the Capricorn as the F18 of choice.



To all who have contributed to making this boat such a success, my sincere thanks.



Best regards,

Greg





Greg Goodall
Managing Director
Australian High Performance Catamarans
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 02:34 PM

Quote
does any one no what boats the top place sailors were sailing at the worlds thanks


WHY SHOULD IT MATTER?!?!?!
Posted By: Mary

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 02:44 PM

Quote
WHY SHOULD IT MATTER?!?!?!

You're kidding; right?
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 05:51 PM

woe be the day when the headlines read:

"HOBIE WINS F18 WORLDS!"

unless of course Mr. Hobie Alter decided to partake in the event himself.
Posted By: Mary

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 09:59 PM

So would you rather have only Hobies in the F-18 Class? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Then nobody would have to ask.

The best thing about a formula class is that a number of manufacturers can get involved in making the boats. Why would they want to do that if they aren't ever going to be mentioned and never get any publicity?

More manufacturers means more boats sailing in the class and growth of the class. It means more competition at the top end of the class as manufacturers compete for the top spots SO THEY CAN GET SOME PUBLICITY and sell boats. All of which is good for the growth and diversity of the formula class.

We watch a lot of motocross, which involves formula classes, and it does not take anything away from the riders when the announcer is constantly mentioning who is on what Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc.

It's just human nature to want to know the brand of the car or bike, the lineage of the horse, the manufacturer of the sailboat, even though they are all racing straight-up.
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 10:02 PM

Quote
woe be the day when the headlines read:

"HOBIE WINS F18 WORLDS!"

unless of course Mr. Hobie Alter decided to partake in the event himself.


The tiger has won the F18 worlds quite often. I do get a smile though. When the Tiger wins, it is because of superior sailors but when the Capricorn wins it is because of the boat. Isn't that taking just a little away from the guys who won??? (I refer to several emails that are floating around from various dealers etc)

I do like to know what brand wins but only as a passing interest.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: USA197

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 10:56 PM

Are you kidding me? Hobie said almost exactly the same thing last year! By the way, Mr. Alter was not present. This is the headline of an article posted on the IHCA website after the 2005 F-18 worlds.

"Hobie Tiger Wins F18 World Championships AGAIN!"

I particularly like "AGAIN" in all capitals. And then shortly thereafter,

"Hobie Tiger 1st and 2nd at the F18 World Championships"

IHCA article on 2005 F-18 Worlds

Eric
A-Class
USA 197
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 11:11 PM

I used hobie as an example.

My post has the same implied meaning as:

"NACRA WINS F18 WORLDS!"

or

"AHPC WINS F18 WORLDS!"

or

"<Insert another manufacturer here> WINS F18 WORLDS!"

In other words, when people start caring more about the boats than the sailors on them.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/16/06 11:39 PM

JOHN WILLIAMS WINS F18 WORLDS!!!!

*sigh* <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 12:49 AM

Quote
Are you kidding me? Hobie said almost exactly the same thing last year! By the way, Mr. Alter was not present. This is the headline of an article posted on the IHCA website after the 2005 F-18 worlds.

"Hobie Tiger Wins F18 World Championships AGAIN!"

I particularly like "AGAIN" in all capitals. And then shortly thereafter,

"Hobie Tiger 1st and 2nd at the F18 World Championships"

Eric
A-Class
USA 197


Sorry - you missed my point - I was saying to the origional poster that Hobie put out the same headlines too.

Can't say I've ever seen Hobiecat say that (whoever) had a worse chance of winning because they were on (a competitors) make boat though.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: Timbo

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 02:10 AM

I vote JW wins the Worlds! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 02:42 AM

Firstly, Hobie crowed about there F18 achievements for years...... Now it is AHPC's turn. For the next 8 months, the Worlds fastest F18 is the Capricorn (and fastest F18 sailors are the Sach Brothers).

Also take notice of the top 5 manufactures. 2 x Capricorns, 2 x Hobies, 1 x Nacra...... Just shows you how close it is. The NACRA finished 5th in its frist Worlds which is a very creditable result. Note the Capricorn also finished 5th in its first Worlds, 6 months after the 2 x prototypes were built. Is this a sign of things to come. The more manufactures up at the pointy end fighting for the #1 position, the better it is for the class.

I also believe it is in the sailors best interest that the boat makes are made public. By doing this, it is advetising the competitive platforms and forcing the manufactures to compete preformance wise as well as price wise, to give us the best value for money products.

If it was never made public that the top F18 was X class, then what will be the incentive for NACRA for example to search for that last small % off preformance.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 03:26 AM

The other thing I'd be interested to know is the weights of the top few crews, particularly as it was a light wind event.
Posted By: Darryl_Barrett

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 03:42 AM

SOOOOO, John Williams WAS the winner?? I thought so. (Hall of fame here he comes) Well done John, keep up the nocturnal exercise.
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 04:40 AM

I trust john will be defending his title in Australia <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: ratherbsailing

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 06:33 AM

thanks was just intrested how new nacra went i have a tiger and really don't care who wins I would prefer the top ten to one boat from every manufacture. well done to john
Posted By: Berny

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 06:58 AM

JOHN WILLIAMS WINS F18 WORLDS ON F14!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Wouter

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 07:33 AM

"How about Hobie Tiger is dominating the F18 fleet."

We heard that one plenty in the past.

You know, those tiger come with a button and when you press that you win the World championship, isn't that a great feature. Apparently both the flyer A-cats and Tornado's have the same button as Darren and Glenn win those as well.

I for one am not ashamed to say that I'm loving every minute of this. Just as when the Boulogne brothers won the Worlds in 2002 on their own design against the same onslaught of Hobie hired guns and Hobie money.

You know what this proof to me ? That the formula concept is really working.

Wouter
Posted By: pdwarren

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 09:27 AM

As far as I can see, this class is working really well. The results show that there's nothing in it between the boats, so we get good competitive racing. At the same time, people are happy to believe that there's something to be gained by having one boat rather than another, so we get a good competitive market with multiple manufacturers putting a lot of money back into the sport.

Have a look at the Hobie/Nissan videos at La Torche and tell me that that's not good promotion for the sport as a whole. Now would we see that kind of interest if the manufacturer of the winning boat didn't get bragging rights?

Paul
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 11:12 AM

Quote
I vote JW wins the Worlds! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I second that!

It's just marketing folks...Hobie has always run a good campaign - they have a solid boat with solid sailors who are very talented and sail a lot. All the ra-ra does get to be a bit agressive but the excessive chest thumping, as Wouter said, shows how well the formula is working. The manufacturers are fighting hard for such a tiny edge.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 11:49 AM

Here's a question... who came up with the formula? Seriously. Go back far enough and there's probably like one or two guys who got behind the original concept. And when was the last significant change to the formula? I don't mean changing the dimensions of the paddle or limits on carbon fiber, but substantive changes like hull width or volume.

Also, I've only read bits here and there about an inordinate number of protests at Worlds... anyone who was there able to talk about that? Someone cited 20 protests a day?! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 12:25 PM

F18 was originally born from SCHRS and the rules basically define a platform that would carry the same rating within that handicap system and target the two particular crewing weight ranges. Pierre-Charles Barraud and Olivier Bovyn were the two behind F18. This speaks pretty well for the parameter driven SCHRS (small catamaran handicap racing system).

http://www.f18-international.org/history.htm
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 01:14 PM

Quote
Here's a question... who came up with the formula? Seriously. Go back far enough and there's probably like one or two guys who got behind the original concept. And when was the last significant change to the formula? I don't mean changing the dimensions of the paddle or limits on carbon fiber, but substantive changes like hull width or volume.

Also, I've only read bits here and there about an inordinate number of protests at Worlds... anyone who was there able to talk about that? Someone cited 20 protests a day?! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


I think a lot were based on boat's etc. I.e. weights, carrying all the equipment that the class rules say you must etc.

Plus, the closer the champs (and the lighter the wind), the more protests happen.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 02:27 PM

Scoob -

I'd agree with you on the race conditions generating protests between competitors, but there is talk that some (maybe many?) of the protests were filed by the RC against competitors... I'm re-reviewing the NAF-18 rules now so that I don't get sideways at Nationals. Didn't realize that the jib must be able to furl from the tramp during racing. I have a furler, but hadn't run any line to it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Also noticed that the NAF-18 logos have to go on the port and starboard hulls under the rear beam... right where my "Capricorn" logo is. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Just wondered what the Worlds-level RC protests might have been about.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 02:34 PM

But what can the RC protest the competitors about ?

If a boat is out of class (or not carrying the correct equipment), then it would be other competitors (or the official measurer) who would be protesting (or do you count the RC as OM ?)
Posted By: Jake

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 02:49 PM

I heard tale that a lot of the new jibs have straight battens in them and have sailed with one myself -I didn't try but I imagine I would have a tough time furling it with the 3.9" diameter required.

Quote
B.4.2.2 For safety purpose, it shall be mandatory, when racing, to furl
done by the crew in normal position on the trampoline. The crew may be asked to demonstrate his ability to furl the jib when
B.4.2.3 The maximum diameter of the furled jib shall be 100 mm.


For that matter, that jib I sailed certainly didn't meet this one:

Quote
B.4.2.4 The maximum number of jib battens will be 4. The battens and/or the batten pockets length shall not exceed a distance of 250 mm normal from the leech. The batten pockets shall be parallel to the luff (± 5°), with a maximum inside length of 300 mm. The jibs measured, marked and appearing on a measurement certificate prior to 1st December 2001 remain permitted until 1st March 2003.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 03:11 PM

Yeah - the straight-batten jib will NOT furl to the required dimension.

Do you think we can propose some rules changes (like furled dimension and sticker location) before September??

[i]edit - straight battens are allowed in the International F18 rules - the "parallel to the luff" appears to be a NA thing, along with the furled dimension. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: sparky

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 03:44 PM

Scooby,

It is in the Rules that an event measurer is compelled to notify the RC of any equipment violations and the RC is to protest the offending boats. There is a section of the Rules called "Event Measurement" that contains the following:

F.3.4. EVENT MEASURER’S RESPONSIBILITY: The RRS 78.3 gives the initial authority to the event measurers to determine whether an item of material complies or not with the class rules. This authority is afforded only during the event measurement. If a measurer is convinced without any doubt that an item of material does not comply with the rules, he shall write a report to the race committee, who shall lodge a protest against the yacht.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 04:05 PM

Quote
Scooby,

It is in the Rules that an event measurer is compelled to notify the RC of any equipment violations and the RC is to protest the offending boats. There is a section of the Rules called "Event Measurement" that contains the following:

F.3.4. EVENT MEASURER’S RESPONSIBILITY: The RRS 78.3 gives the initial authority to the event measurers to determine whether an item of material complies or not with the class rules. This authority is afforded only during the event measurement. If a measurer is convinced without any doubt that an item of material does not comply with the rules, he shall write a report to the race committee, who shall lodge a protest against the yacht.


OK, thanks, never had a boat fail measurement so I'd not experienced it.

So it appears that maybe a number of boats were not m,easuring, or re-measuring !
Posted By: Boomer

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 08:39 PM

The RC did a random check on several boats and during one of these checks (Kenbeek/Brouwer) the RC challenged the correctness of their paddle. After that Kenbeek filed a protest against all other competitors to have their paddle (especially length) checked. After that the RC decided to check all paddles and it seemed their was a queue next to the measurers tent with at least 100 competitors having all kinds of ingenious paddle-like creations.
Dutchman Vincent Kruyt "found" a flagpole to extend his paddle not knowing the original owner of the plagpole was standing just behind him in the queue. A chase, which started in de RC's tent and ended on the beach, followed.
Also the Boulogne bro's came up with a paddle made out of a beertray. Hilarious.
Posted By: Brian_Mc

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 09:45 PM

John and Brian, Where is Adventure Online TV when we need them? I can only imagine the video you guys would've made of that chase...
Posted By: MauganN20

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 09:59 PM

PADDLEGATE!
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/17/06 11:53 PM

Quote
PADDLEGATE!


read-the-flippin-class-rules-gate !
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/18/06 12:47 AM

Quote
Here's a question... who came up with the formula? Seriously. Go back far enough and there's probably like one or two guys who got behind the original concept. And when was the last significant change to the formula? I don't mean changing the dimensions of the paddle or limits on carbon fiber, but substantive changes like hull width or volume.


Check out http://www.f18-international.org/history.htm for a brief history of the F18 class. AFAIK there have been no major changes of the class rules beyond the control of snuffer tubes, allowing self tackers and control of sail materials.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: C2 Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/18/06 12:51 AM

Quote
I heard tale that a lot of the new jibs have straight battens in them and have sailed with one myself -I didn't try but I imagine I would have a tough time furling it with the 3.9" diameter required.

Quote
B.4.2.2 For safety purpose, it shall be mandatory, when racing, to furl
done by the crew in normal position on the trampoline. The crew may be asked to demonstrate his ability to furl the jib when
B.4.2.3 The maximum diameter of the furled jib shall be 100 mm.


For that matter, that jib I sailed certainly didn't meet this one:

Quote
B.4.2.4 The maximum number of jib battens will be 4. The battens and/or the batten pockets length shall not exceed a distance of 250 mm normal from the leech. The batten pockets shall be parallel to the luff (± 5°), with a maximum inside length of 300 mm. The jibs measured, marked and appearing on a measurement certificate prior to 1st December 2001 remain permitted until 1st March 2003.


The furling one is a common problem with 4:1 self tackers. Not many actually furl and IIRC the furler is scheduled for deletion in the near future.

Jib batten pockets are another common area of non-compliance. Once again when they go full batten jibs, this issue will dissappear.

Tiger Mike
Posted By: BrianK

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/18/06 02:41 AM

John and I are sipping foo foo drinks with the wives. Were on holiday!
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/18/06 07:37 AM

Quote
Also noticed that the F-18 logos have to go on the port and starboard hulls under the rear beam... right where my "Capricorn" logo is. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Under the rear beam on the inside of the hulls, with certain measurement details writen under the clear F18 sticker.

As for the paddles, I cant believe sailors going to these events, do not study the rules. Sailors should also forget taking shortcuts making a paddle and just buy or make a usable paddle under the class rules.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/18/06 11:36 AM

Hey Steve -

I was talking about the NAF-18 Class Sticker - they go on the outside of the hulls under the rear beams rather than inside where the measurement stickers go... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! - 07/18/06 12:55 PM

Cool, thought the NAF was a typo......

How do you like your new Capricorn. Hopefully we will see the class build rapidly in the US with the new US dealer and recent Capricorn success.

Are you still looking at coming over to Oz for the 07 Worlds and if so, if you have any questions, please e-mail me and I will help you out where I can.

Cheers
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