Stilletto 23

I have a mothballed stiletto 23 that I want to modernise with carbon rig and new foils. I thought that the rig for a f25c might do the trick, but I cant seem to find one. Does anyone have any ideas or feedback. I may just wind up seeing if Hall or southern or someone can make a custom one, but it would be much cheaper to find an existing section. What boats have 36 foot long rotating carbon rigs?

charlie

The mast for an F25c is much stronger and possibly heavier than your mast. The section is the same as an ARC22 but the wall thickness is thinner.

thom

The ARC section is thinner? I think I will probably have to bid this one out. The stiletto mast is an aluminum section from the early eighties. It is way too heavy. This boat always had issues with pitchpoling. If the weight aloft was significantly reduced I think it would be as bad as anything on the water.

Look up Eric Sponberg on google. I'd be willing to be he could design you a composit mast that you could build yourself, or at the very least direct you to a good builder for what you need. He's best known for his freestanding, rotating wingmasts, and as such is highly knowlegeable in all things carbon.

Also, weigh your rigging. I bet you could save quite a few pounds by going with synthetic rope rigging instead of wire.

There is a similar boat to your description, but it's a 27 come to think. It's in Birmingham AL. Tom Shannon, who monitors this list, knows the owner.

That, and the Granger family, who modified my Fboat, are now working on a S27. They're doing ten kinds of mods to it. Contact the Grangers vis www.tcdyc.com and see if they can offer you suggestions.

Hell, a stock S23 is a sweet ride stock (with updated sails). Have you thought about getting in touch with Ron Nicol over there in Florida?

good luck with it,
tami

and, oh yeah, you could consider a Marstrom mast, that's what we have on our Fboat...

t

I have talked with Peter Wormwood about my ideas a great deal. I am definitely going to go with composite standing rigging, I would like carbon beams as well (who wouldn't), but the biggest thing is the mast. I was just hoping someone might know of something easier than getting a custom section made. Does anyone have a ballpark figure of the cost of say a 36' marstrom rig?

Also on the subject of stiletto's. Did anyone ever see mark murrays s27 'excalibur' that he stretched to thirty ft by plumbing the bows and raking the sterns. All carbon rig and modern foils. That boat was one bad mofo. steered just like an inter 20. Essentially thats what I want my 23 to be like. But at a fraction of the cost of course!

It's a 23. Built to the specs you are talking about (carbon beams, mast, titanium parts to replace stainless, flathead, reacher, VERY cool graphics, blah, blah, blah). Very fast and almost too much boat over 12 knots of breeze

I'll PM some contact info to you.

I've been thinking about doing exactly the same thing...!

The 25c rig is too heavy... Hall was too expensive... Dealing with Marstrom is a nightmare unless you are buying something they sell off the shelf (or ordering something REALLY expensive). What did Southern quote you? I'm not sure I would want a Southern spar, though...

However, I ~may~ have received an interesting price from Forte RTS/Van Dusen Composites.

PM me and I'll send you the 'details'. We can see if an order for 2 masts affects pricing. That would be good.

Christopher

G'day,

Pretty sure we could supply both the masts and beam cheaper than any of the big names in the USA, particularly as they will fit in a shipping container. Please email me details and I will forward a quote.

regards,

Rob Denney
www.harryproa.com

You guys should give Jeff Kent a shout. this sounds like a project that might be perfect for CSI.

Actualy come to think about it you could get Henry Bosset at North sails to build the sails for the spar and I bet it would be awesome.
Jeff is set up well for one off construction projects and their quality is awesome.

Jeff is a former Tornado Helmsman who won the tornado olympic trials with Henry the year the US Boycotted the Games.
Jeff also won the DN world Champs. Nice guy, good shop.

I am not in any way affiliated with Jeff, but I do own a couple of his masts.

http://www.csi-composites.com/

Eric

What does it cost to have a custom mast like this made (very ball park number)?

I'm actively looking for a Stiletto 27 and I've heard several people mention the mast is too heavy on that Stiletto as well. If the price isn't too crazy, I might go with a carbon mast also.

$20 bucks a pound - very rough ballpark.

Another source for custom mast is Forte -www.forterts.com

So what does a 36' carbon mast weigh? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

20$/lb sounds very cheap did you mean 200$/lb?

Eric

$20 per pound was a guess knowing that carbon is $12 per pound.

My Hall Acat mast is $109 per pound - $2400 divided by 22lbs - thats clear coated and with a carbon gooseneck. Its a hand crafted part, with low amounts of carbon as compared to the amound of labor required to build it. Clear coating and the gooseneck add to the cost, but I dont remember the exact amounts.

My Forte HT mast is $29 per pound - $1300 divided by 44lbs -just the bare tube, no clear coat, built on a mandrel using a machine, with minimal labor - as compared to the Hall.

So, I would expect the heavier Stiletto mast to be closer to the Forte per pound price than the Hall per pound price, since it has more carbon and would probably need about the same amount of labor as any other composite tube.

I bet $50 per pound is probably a better number for a mast like that. Cheaper from a company that can use a machine to produce or that already has a mold, more expensive from a company that hand crafts it.

The mast makers are going to want to know what the old one weighed, the length, wall thickness and the profile to give you a good number.

Bill

Marstrom said the tube with no hardware would weigh 40. With hardware I would guess maybe 60-65pds. there cost (which is bound to be the most expensive out there)
was 12-13 grand including tax and shipping.

charlie

$12k - $13k !?!?!?!? Ouch!

wow, 12 grand? How long is it? 40lbs, thats light, I would have expected it to be heavier. If you can afford it, it sounds like a sweet part. I've been very impressed with everything I've seen from them, they do nice work.

I would call Tony at Forte, he's making me a 33ft wing mast for $1300. He's using a Tornado wing mast section as a mandrel, so the part is going to be slightly larger than a T mast. I'm going to need to finish it myself, but thats not hard. Going to use a clear water based 2 part poly, System 3 as the finish once I sand the surface smooth.

Whats the shipping from Sweden? Make sure it goes in a container or it will get busted. I've heard plenty of stories of Acat masts that got shipped individually and they've all gotten ruined. I wouldnt risk it.

Bill

Bill,

what project will you use the tornado-moulded carbon tube on? Just curious..

BTW: Do you really consider the tornado sections as wing-shapes?



The custom work Marstrøm does is very nice, and they are experts on pre-preg carbon stuff. I believe Torbjørn Linderson used to design their rigs, but I see they are searching for an engineer to lead their spar building team..

Ref:
http://www.linderson.com/
http://www.marstrom.com/

marstrom shipping was 2-3 g's. I am looking into the domestic options. hopefully I can keep it under 8grand.
charlie

Rolf,
My HT mast was broken in a thunderstorm - an i20 wasnt tied down and cartwheeled down the beach and took out the HT.

The T mast is a fatter section than the Riba section, but I think it will be fine, and yes, I think its more wingmast than teardrop, but its a fat wingmast, not ideal, but its whats available. A new Bim HT mast is $2500 US FOB Italy, so a $1300 version is appealling, especially since its made by Forte about 50 minutes away from me. Plus, Forte is going to make it 5lbs lighter, all at the top and with the fatter section it will be more flexible. I think the Riba HT masts were too stiff, unless you got them out in 30knots with 2 big guys on the wire they wouldnt twist off. The Forte mast might even be faster. No one in the US HT class ever tried a differient mast other than the Riba, so this is kind of an experiment. The Riba masts were bullet proof, only WF was able to break one and it was when he got washed ashore in 8 foot seas onto the rocks at Beavertail.


Bill

Hey Charlie,
What about taking the busted i20 mast - glue it back together, and add a couple feet? Save yourself some cash if you are up to the challenge.

For 8g's you could even pay someone to do it and have cash left over.

Bill