Hobie Tiger Nationals cancelled...

Wow... I just noticed that the Tiger nationals were cancelled at the St Francis Yacht Club due to lack of participation. St Francis is THE mover and shaker of clubs on the west coast... What a shame to have this fall through!

Wow.... I thought I heard ice breaking up (global warming and all ) when I read the following thread on the Hobie Forum

Hobie Tiger nationals Forum discussion.

A discussion and apparent consensus among tiger sailors to include non hobies at the points regattas!

All I have to say... is why stop with the Tiger.... Roll back the clock! and lets try to keep cat racing going as a sport with a unified racing program.

It appears that the only thing stopping open races is Hobie corporate and the IHCA. What hammer is held over the fleets to keep them Hobie only? Money? Support? Polaroids? It appears that the fleets would see larger turnouts and revenue if open classes were permitted.

Having spoken to a few fellow Tiger sailors, the issue was timing - in the middle of the season for those in the Northern states, and too close to the NAF-18 Nationals.

I agree its a real shame - some people put in a lot of hard work to try and make the event a success. The HCA is going to have a post mortem at the AGM in September.

Chris.

Hi Chris -

I talked to a skipper who had been on the fence about going. He said the venue was an issue as well as the timing. The wave conditions are reportedly quite punishing, and a Tiger practicing there actually broke a mast going through the big, square waves. Yes, that tree-trunk Tiger mast. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I certainly hope that the various classes can communicate better prior to scheduling next year's events. My opinion, after talking to some folks, is that the Tigers, H16s an F18s were an issue. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I hope somebody within each organization takes note. There is a lot of cross-over in those fleets.

Hi John,

I agree with you about all the cross-over between the Tiger, H16 and F18 fleets. The schedules for each repective class don't leave a lot of room for multi-boat skippers to do all the events. They pick and choose which ones are important to them. Plus this is the third year in a row with a California venue for a major Tiger event. That doesn't bode well for the large majority of Tigers in the east and midwest...especially when the events are scheduled during our already short sailing season. I'm a proponent of having NA's in the fall if at all possible. There are probably other factors that contributed (i.e. time commitments, high fuel costs) to the lack of participation. At least the 17's are ripping it up in the Bay right now. So many options to choose from...so little time.

John Bauldry
Commodore, Hobie Fleet 276
Detroit, MI
HF18 #1704

They pay insurance.

Hi John -

I agree with you that multi-class sailors (like me) have to pick and choose and we all can't do every event. But if the events can be spread out a little more, it would open options. I know of some folks that would be doing F18s if H16s weren't back-to-back with them. And I know guys that are only coming to F18s because Tigers were cancelled. So maybe only a select few would do all three, but I think a greater number would do two out of three given a better schedule.

Anyway, all this is great discussion - I just hope that the people that make the decisions have the same sort of speaks and are able, within the limitations that event organizers must deal with, to work togther in the future. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you John - events are more successful when they are spaced out in the schedule and are in the right place at the right time of year to ensure fun and competitive racing. I had also heard the concerns about conditions in SF bay at this time of year being towards the upper limit of the Tiger sailing envelope.

I am going to be participating the HCA AGM - I'll make sure the flavor of the thoughtful discussion I've seen here and on the Hobie support forums gets aired. They are very similar to what I've heard from my division.

Chris.

Does IHCA cover the entire cost or do they offer reduced rates? Doesn't USSA offer the same coverage? When I was involved in race management we could get decent group rates by partnering with other fleets.

The insurance is the US Sailing sponsored Burgee Program.

Bottom line If your fleet is unincorporated... you can use the policy coverage.

Most clubs incorporate so that they can open a bank account, and shield their officers and volunteers from some liabiltiy.

Its the same sort of thing that NAMSA would offer.

Pooling clubs into regional sailing groups is expressly prohibited. Basically if you have two bank accounts... you have issues with pooling.

Bottom line... your assets are on the line when you do this kind of service (Sad but true) and you should assess the liability exposure for yourself.

Which is why I thought NAMSA came into existence in the first place, to act as the governing body and organizer for (non-hobie only) regattas to be held at various locations. This would alleviate the local clubs from the various issues you bring up.

If I understand you correctly, with the US Sailing insurance (Chubb) programs, only those unicorporated fleets/clubs would benefit from the liability protection purchased by the national organizations.

Those fleets/clubs that sought incorporated status (to raise funds, hold local events, etc.) would have to purchase their own regatta policies for whatever they do.

Chubb is NOT US Sailing's insurance provider anymore. They've been out for a couple of years. If they contact you saying that they offer the same exact coverage, or if your club or fleet continues to renew with them, I urge you to check with US Sailing directly for a quote. The new company (Gowrie, Barton and Brett) is the only US Sailing-endorsed and offered insurance.

According to the US Sailing site, they still are.

http://www.ussailing.org/membership/insurance/burgee.htm

Roger

I think John was refering to Myers Brigss the agent for the old package. Gowrie Barden and Bret are the new agents and they provide Chubb insurance. (You should see the paperwork you get with the Burgee Package..)

Lots of advantages with the Burgee Progam we now use.

The bug is right. We are incorportated and yes we had to purchase our own insurance. This alone is making the regattas expensive. Nearly half our budget is insurance.

I took note. I took note and yelled about it too.

Tracie <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pudding (as in proof in)

I am outraged at the cavalier… ho hum attitude that I sense… As someone who makes events happen in my region I just want to know if you have any idea of the impact of
“ Oh well… the schedule screwed up a nationals and we just cancelled it. Or… gee its WINDY there and I don’t want to play there!”

Let me understand this….
You want to talk about the Tiger Class fiasco at the Hobie 16 Nationals and decide WHAT?
That they were bad boys and girls for screwing the St Francis yacht club over?
What do you think the Hobie 16 sailors will do too the Tiger sailors.. shun them?

Ya think that the NAF18’s might be a good place to SCHEDULE A FRICKIN TIGER MEETING and figure out what went wrong and what to do about it!
Uh… do you think that your organizational structure might have contributed to this mess?

Do you realize that a lot of people at the St Francis club arranged their schedule to take off and run an event in the middle of the week for you? Last time I looked… they don’t get paid! They volunteered for the good of the sport and the sailing community. And you bail at the last minute. What the hell were you thinking ???? (At least the 17’s showed up to play.)

Did the conditions on the SF Bay suddenly change because of global warming? You didn’t know it was usually windy on the bay? You suddenly woke up and said… Nah…I won’t go there … Its too windy… but sshhhh… I won’t tell anyone that I won’t come. Oh and by the way… I really didn’t mean it when I said… Oh wow… St Francis Yacht club … GREAT Venue !
It took a year for everyone to wuss out? Gee… do you think the 505 class will bail because they suddenly realize its WINDY THERE!

What kind of WANKERS do we as cat sailors look like when the feedback St Francis gets is… Oh…. The sailors thought the conditions would be too rough for them .. so … well em… they decided that it just wasn’t right for them… So well em that’s why they called and cancelled at the last minute. Well at least they called!

Or how much respect do you earn when your excuse is… Well the schedule was bad!

How long do you think it will take for cat sailors to live this one down on the west coast? 5 years… 10??? Why would ANY yacht club bother to host you
for an event after this fiasco? Do you have ANY IDEA how difficult it is to find a place and team to run a nationals? Do you think ANYBODY in these clubs CARES about some pissant BS about Hobie rule this …. and Formula 18 rule that… and well this schedule conflicted with that schedule. (like you did not have anything to do with YOUR FREAKIN SCHEDULE)

In one instant… you have just reaffirmed what the sailing community has SAID ABOUT US CATSAILORS FOR YEARS … Oh..those Hobie cat sailors… they are not serious…. They don’t even act like adults! Why in gods name would ANY serious sailing organization give us the time of day after this? (The majority of the sailing world simply knows catamarans as Hobie Cats) No matter how many good things NAHCA might do…People tend to remember the !#$@$ ups.

I work with the yacht clubs on the Chesapeake Bay to give the beach cats starts at both big boat events and dinghy events. It takes YEARS to build credibility with these organizations based on our collective reputation from years past…. And I don’t even know what we did then!!! You tell them XY and Z and you better damn sure make certain that XY and Z happen and then do a bit more. You develop personal relationships and credibility with individuals who go out on a limb and make stuff happen for you… and the poor SOB who got screwed over here by the class must be mortified.

Finally, what really pisses me off is what I read about from the Tiger
sailors is :well…. The real problem is the #$#%/ Schedule!!!! If only this.… … well it was too much…. they really should have done more for us… HOW ABOUT ADDRESSING THE PINK ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!

Give me a $^%$^$ break… The least you could do is take up a collection and from the class and make a sizable donation to their Junior Sailing Program with profound apologies. Stop with the asinine excuses. Act like adults and clean up the freakin mess you created!

Mark,

Do you think this post of yours is making a useful contribution to the discussion? (I don't)

I'm unclear as to who exactly you are directing your rant at. At times I wish this forum had an "ignore posts from this user" feature to improve the signal to noise ratio.

I find your style of writing unpersuasive and antagonistic. What is it you hope to achieve? Do you think your comments will help increase participation at future Tiger national events?

Chris.

Chris

Yes... its very clear that no one is accountable... and so my comments were meant to be antagonistic…. Perhaps somebody will step forward and address the problem when you take a verbal whack at them.

You just seem to be offended that I call this like I see it and your proposal is to block it out (that signal to noise thing)… so that you only see the happy things on the forum.

Yes my rant was NOT persuasive … it was a scold… you tend not to try to persuade five year olds … You scold them when they screw up! You don’t sweep it under the rug and pretend that everything will be fine!

The point is that your class behaved like five year olds and they need to get their act together and clean up the mess like adults!

You guys are debating a scheduling issue without making an apology to all those affected. Somebody like the class president (not clear who that might be) needs to speak out publicly and clean up the mess that you left at St Francis.

You also should make apologies to the other classes which now have to deal with repercussions when they request a yacht club to host an event.

Jake pointed to the thread…. Lots of people seemed to understand a long time ago that your class might have a problem with the event when it was scheduled and so well you did! Nevertheless... It seemed to get down to the final hour before somebody pulled the plug. How can that be? It looks irresponsible to me... thus the labeling of the class as a bunch of 5 year olds.

Unfortunately... we all get painted with the same brush here and I resent it!

So, I want to hear about some apologies to St Francis YC and to the other classes.

(If you want an example of how to do this… See the misunderstanding that occurred a few years ago with the A cat fleet and the Tradewinds regatta had a communications failure. The A class leaders took responsibility for the aftermath and then they move on)

Hey I am equally harsh on my class, the Tornado class has told CORK that they will be racing next weekend….Its highly likely that this is just wishful thinking…. I have emailed and spoken with all of the class powers that be that this behavior is not appropriate. I’m told that Cork is OK with the highly likely probability that the class will not show… BUT… at least Cork has given the Tornado class a pass. Maybe that was the deal with St Francis…

Mark

Question for regatta insurance purchasers: Does this insurance cover anything more that SPECTATORS? Our Florida regatta insurance used to cover nothing but spectators of which there were very few. Yet- Required by municipalities. Also I never heard of a claim-- or a payoff. How is it now?