Infusion

Just picked up an 08' Nacra Infusion. Boat is in great shape and the plan is to wax her up and take her sailing before it gets any colder. This winter I'll take a look at the rigging and the rest of the boat to get her really locked in per here: http://www.microwindracing.com/boat.html

Are there any problem spots besides the gybing boards (I don't think mine gybe, the back of the boards are really thick where they fit in the compartment) and the potential for leaking skipper bungees? I'd like to stay ahead of the maintenance curve.

Thanks,
Sam

Congrats with the new boat, should still be very competitive.
It's a good idea to have some spare parts of the rudder system.
Especially the bolt with the ring at the end that attaches to the transom has a tendency to break.

Make sure that the keeper nut is kept TIGHT!!!!! Check it every time you sail. The bolt will break when that nut gets loose! (Don't ask me how I know).

Second... sailing back to Ft. Adams with one rudder at the Newport Regatta was bunches of fun!

Congrats on the boat- the Infusion is a great ride, and following Mike and Tripp's rigging guide is the best way to get sorted quickly. You should come play with us in New England next summer, our fleet meeting is coming up and I will have the event calendar out by the beginning of December.

Thanks guys. Many of the systems are the same as the N20, so I've got a few spare rudder parts (and blade).

Jeff, New England sailing is the plan if I can keep my crew around through then.

Quick question, are most of you using the hook system for the jib halyard? My understanding is the hooks are hard to get (I only have 1 and I better not loose it!). Is there an alternative system, maybe an old fashioned rope halyard with Spectra vs. the wire? What are the Mk. 2's and C2's shipping with?

The hook system works pretty good, I wouldn't worry about losing it (unless you are really clumsy!)

I would get a 2nd main halyard ring though, they can stretch during the season which makes is a PITA to hook it in.

The C2's have a more traditional haylard. I plan to switch mine back to a hook and ring like the infusion. I felt that system worked much better and was far easier to keep adequate luff tension.

We use the hook with a jib cunningham led back to the beam, works nicely.

I have my halyard come down the front of the mast after rounding a micro block on the forestay pigtail. There is another micro on the end of the halyard where I get a 2:1 purchase on the halyard via a jamb cleat with a pin. This gives me the ability to adjust the halyard tension easily while on the water.
Another thing to keep an eye out for is the seperation of the two hull haves along the top, back and bottom of the hulls. This was definately an issue on early boats, I don't know at what point this issue was resolved, if ever.

Thanks guys. My understanding is the seaming was an issue on the earlier boats and the 09-10 boats built overseas. 07 and 08 were supposedly OK years? Hopefully I don't find out the hard way...

We have a 2008 and have not had an issue in the two years we have owned it. The previous owner took very good care of the boat, and it hasn't been run up on beaches which helps.

I had an 08 for 3 years. It was a great boat. No issues at all with it.

Change the line that goes through the cleat, and the lazy end of it put on a bungee so it dives into the beam. Most of the time its the crew coming in and out that bumps it and loosens the jib luff.

I used 5mm dinghy control, and tapered it where it ties off at the beam. Yeah, I'm that cool.

Got it, don't slam the boat into the beach. Does anyone have some pictures of the old style gybing trunks and how they filled them in? Or anyway to confirm the boards are non-gybing?

On the adjustable jib downhaul, are you running that to both sides of the boat? I'm inclined to go with a single line setup to keep it simple and avoid issues with the crew whacking it coming of the wire...

I believe the gybing boards were eliminated fairly early in the production line as most sailers were eliminating it. This was done by using bog at the bottom of the daggerboard trunk so that the board could not twist inside the trunk.
As for the jib adjustment I would only run a singal line. This is not something you ever really adjust unless the windstrength has changed or you just got it wrong before you left the beach.

Cool. Single line it is! I've never gotten it right on the beach. As an example I launched Sunday into what appeared dead flat. It was blowing 8-10kts on the other side of the beach and the luff tension was wrong. Typical Chesapeake Bay, never know what it is until you're in it.

I too have done that plenty of times. I ran mine down the front of the mast so that it is out of the way. It typically gets adjusted twice during the course of the day as the seabreeze kicks in. You will truley enjoy the Infusion. It is a great boat.

Finally had the boat out in breeze over the weekend. Its a fantastic platform! Much better reaching than anything I've been on before and the overall stiffness is fantastic.

Definitely sorting out a few rigging things, the mainsail hook was a pain day 1 to get hooked but day 2 was fine, the jib halyard hook is goofy (never really liked that system), and I have a few spinnaker issues to work out.

My number one issue there is it all seems to bunch up at the hoop when dousing and is much harder to douse than others I've used in the past (Nacra midpole snuffer on the N20). Spinnaker is new and slick but I didn't McLube the hoop. The second issue is the tackline needs to be re-rigged per the manual, its not under tension when tight which makes it impossible to blow.

Sam, get that thing figured out and come do the GT with it. You've already done the Tybee.

Sam,

Definitely McLube the hoop. If you are going to re-rig anything, follow Mike and Tripp's setup here:

http://www.microwindracing.com/boat.html

Glad you are enjoying the boat, look forward to seeing you at some events in the future.

-Jeff

Yeah looking at Mike and Tripp's setup in detail its not super easy to follow, will need to look at it sober.

Lee, that race is on my list but probably not for next year. My number one focus will be Nationals, with potential for World's in 2013 or 2014. If I do the GT it will likely be on another boat as crew. I also don't know my offshore schedule right now, there was mention of transat's and other craziness.

Like an idiot, I dropped the shockcord for the downhaul inside the front crossbeam while stepping the mast Saturday. I have two questions:

1) How exactly is this system rigged and suggestions on how to retrieve the end of my shock chord that is missing? I had presumed this was a simple 1:1 shock chord but to my horror it appears to be a 4:1 system and isn't documented in the manual . I do have one end of the shock chord for what its worth.

2) How do others store the downhaul system on these boats? Taking the blocks off the mast seems time consuming to me. Put hooks on the front beam shock chord? Other ideas?

Thanks again for any help, will trade for beer,
Sam

First thing to remember is that Gremlins live inside the front beam... be very cautious

With that warning out of the way, the best way to get your bungee back is probably to take the endcaps off, then pull the bungee all the way through the beam to the opposite side from where you lost it. Then, attach it to a batten and feed it back through.

Inside your front beam you should have a double block on each end tied to vertical post inside the beam. There are three lines/bungees in there:

1. Jib sheet bungees (two)- dead end one end of bungee to vertical post, go through the beam to the bottom of the double block, then back through the beam and tie off to one end of jib sheet. Repeat for other side.

2. cunningham and bungee- We run a continuous downhaul that is lead out to the crew trapeze. each end of the cunningham line has a small eye splice that allows us to tie it together with opti sail tie, then untie to derig. I will try to make a picture of the layout... don't want to describe it.

3. Crew trap bungee- straight through beam

Here is the layout of the cunningham and jib sheet

Jeff,

Thank you for the slide and description, it is much appreciated.

I will make sure to wear thick leather gloves and stock up on Gremlin spray before entering the front beam.

Quick and dirty solution for the tack line issue, move the release line to the loaded side of tack cleat.

Isn't that where it's supposed to be anyway?

I'll double check the release line position, but I'm pretty sure it's on the loaded side of the cleat. I've never really liked this system, removed it on the N20. It does give you a few seconds of extra wire time on the way to th offset mark but I'm not convinced its worth the hassle of an extra shock chord and no visible tack line cleat. On the other hand it does tidy up the tramp which is good since this boat lacks some.

Jeff, I went into my main beam and re-rigged everything last night. Do you have line lengths for your setup? My setup has a single shock chord for the jib rigged the same way as the downhill shock chord. Both seem a little tight to me but the shock chords are new. Switching to a double shock chord for the jb would clean things up and make things feerier IMO.

Oh, I didn't have but a tiny gremlin in my beam, some clumps of something that didn't bite (yet).

Sam, Mike and Tripp's link above should have finished line lengths. We steal our setup shamelessly from them.

Jeff,

They don't list bungee lengths on their website. I'll just guess.

-Sam

Sam,
What Jeff didn't tell you and their website doesn't tell you is that the setup they have on their website isn't the actual system they are using. They can't share all their secrets, actually I think they are just too lazy to update it.
Mike & Tripp and most well tuned boats run a "continuous" downhaul. I say it in quotes because on the infusion you can't have a true continuous because the line has to come apart to come off the mast base.
Tripp sews the end of the downhaul together every time they sail. To de-rig they have a leader line.
On my old infusion I tapered the end of down then tied a small stopper knot (single half hitch) and tied them together and taped them up a bit then pulled them into the middle of the system inside the beam.
You'll need about 45' for this system.
To look how to run the shockcord for a continuous system look up the AHPC rigging manual, http://www.2bsailing.eu/downloads/c2-owners-manual.pdf
Page 6.2.1
The blocks the blue shockcord runs through are attached/tied to the posts in the beams and the blocks they are tied to are free running. The block outside the beam is obviously for tying it to the trapeze.
Keep in mind the C2 has a true continuous system with a splice inside, this is where you have to improvise to have stitching or something like i mentioned above.
-Todd

Todd,

I included a diagram of the continuous cunningham system on the previous page.... not hiding anything!

This year I rigged the 'crew trap cunningham' Jeff specified for both the trap *and* the jib, then spliced the jib sheet to make a continuous loop. Now I don't have to be very concerned with balancing the jib sheet length when we race. I recommended if you can sort out the beam gremlins accordingly. With the splice it's sort of a permanent, un-riggable feature, though.

Considering rigging a continuous downhaul line that can be de-rigged/re-rigged easily this year. I have a pretty simple idea that will prob work pretty nicely, but have not tried it out.

One other thing. Look to make sure that the main halyard hook at the top freely swivels. Many times, the loop on the inside of the track actually hits the back of the track. When it sticks, it can make raising and lowering the main a total PITA. Fix it at your own peril. In my case, I pried the loop a little bit with a screwdriver so that it freely swiveled

Thanks for all the help guys. I agree that no one is hiding anything, they're just at the bar rather than holding tape measures up to shock chords. Fortunately my beam didn't have any gremlins, other than the end cap screws aren't very cooperative. Everything was working fine over the weekend but I think my downhaul line won't be long enough to loop through the crew's trapeze. I'll take a look when I escape from work in daylight.

Fortunately my boat was mostly sailed in freshwater so the top halyard hook is corrosion free. Since I flipped the knot on the hook so it's facing forward, my issues have gone away, fingers crossed.

Well, I too have an Infusino now, a really nice 07 model.
Rereading helps me make it thru the Winer months.

I had to go out and clean 3" of snow off it yesterday!

I'll have to check my board trunk, jibing or not?

Thanks eveyone. And yes, I've sailed it 3 times before the witner, once in a regatta in Madison WI. Did OK in that one too. I too love the new boat. It feels/sails bigger than an 18ft boat.

Edit- I've got to get a new action photo of it this Spring, and get my old N6.0na off my Avatar.
** Speaking of my old 6.0- (The Millineum Falcon), IT LIVES! Theres a whole post on the TX City Dike Yacht Club (the name I made up btw to use as my 'team' on first entry into the GT300) by one of the Maudlin grandkids who has it now and is completely gong thru it, it's at Clear Lake at Maudlins!

I might start another thread on this but since its Infusion specific I'll leave it here...

Since my boat is in really good shape it probably makes sense to go down the path of making it a Mk1.9, not immediately but probably before Nationals. My biggest issue (besides the cost of new boards and sails) is I won't be able to use the old boards once I upgrade, using the stock Nacra upgrade kit. This is an issue as the boat will be sailed on the Chesapeake for training, which is notoriously shallow (someone runs aground on a N20 once a week). Any ideas on how to have a backwards compatible system? I'm thinking a fiberglass/carbon or maybe even vinyl shim that fits in from the top of the trunk and can be removed at will.

Sam, you do realize that daggerboards aren't in a fix position right? You can pull them up to a desired height? Sorry to be a wise butt but your just about as bad as the Sunfish sailor when I was working at LaserPerformance who asked me to make him a short daggerboard!
Uwpwind with long boards, you're pulling the boards up around 10-12 knots, they don't get in the way and you'd have to seriously screw up to get thrown forwards into your daggerboard upwind.
Downwind, in light air you're leaving them mostly down or pulling them up (very condition dependent) but even so, this doesn't change from the old boards.
Downwind in breeze you're pulling up your boards and if you stuff and you're not trapping you're might end up flying into the board, but this is fairly rare and again no different than if you have short boards.
Think you'll be okay?

hmmmm, that explains that vertical bruise I had running up my side ... Sort of daggarboard shaped, too...

LOL yes I realize these things can move up and down. I'd prefer to still be able to use my short boards. I'm mostly being a dick and trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, but its a slow day in the office.

So I took apart the beams and seated them in epoxy. While doing this I have noticed gelcoat cracking at the center seam underneath the beams on all 4 corners. This worries me a bit. Has anyone else noticed this?

YOu seated the beams in expoxy? Aren't Infusion polyester resin. Yes I know that epoxy will stick to polyester.

What will happen when you want to remove the beams?

I haven't looked under the beams on my Infusion yet.

It has been my experience that the epoxy won't stick to the aluminum beam, as long as they are relatively clean and waxed prior to placing them on the epoxy.

You need to wax the aluminum prior to seating the beams. Almost any wax will do. Wax the inside of the beam bolt holes too because if any creeps inside there it can be a pain later on.

The hulls have gelcoat over the polyester resin, just sand the beam sockets lightly and smooth, clean with some acetone and the epoxy will stick fine.

I prefer to use epoxy, I've been told the class rules specify only gel coat may be used so if you're worried about that use gel coat.

On the infusion, make sure you don't end up with any epoxy in the gap between the the top front of the beam and the hull. It will make it impossible to get the beam out.

If you do all this it will require a very slight nudge to get the beams off but hardly any more effort than before you seated them.

I think some people use non-stick baking-paper to stop the beam from sticking to the epoxy.

Or that green PVA mold release spray
Or cooking spray (tradename PAM)
Or carnuba car wax

I think I may have used Rain-X in a bind once for a rudder repair.. If I'd only have used Jake's hotel key-card idea....

your options are pretty open as long as it doesn't bind to the epoxy...

I followed the instructions here: http://www.microwindracing.com/boat.html

I used partall paste #2 wax plus pva for a release agent. No issues with removing the beams. If someone protests me because I used epoxy instead of gelcoat I'm not sure how I would respond...technically gelcoat is an epoxy based product...I have lots of epoxy not a lot of gelcoat on hand.

interesting protest... the basis would be that the epoxy gave you an advantage for the weight saving? Or just that it was an arbitrarily unapproved substance?

The protest would be lodged since epoxy isn't a suitable material for use in the hull construction. However, carefully reading the 2013 F18 class rules (http://www.f18-international.org/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=file&id=51:updated-2013-class-rules&Itemid=50) I think I am fine:

"D.3 HULL SHELLS
D.3.1 MATERIALS
(a) The hull shells shall be built from polyester or vinylester resin, glass
fibres, polyester gel coat, the combination of wood-epoxy or injected
plastic with a core of PVC or balsa or felt. The hull shells shall not be
altered, other than locally for fittings and passage of equipment and normal
reinforcement. Epoxy glue is permitted for joining components. Every
material that is not expressly permitted is prohibited."

The "epoxy glue is permitted for joining components" statement may apply here. Furthermore I couldn't find anything that states the beams must be removable but there is probably another rulebook that says otherwise.

"Joining" can mean a whole mess of things. Bonding is a different story, and you are not.

Fair enough.

So class measurers, am I in violation of the rules with my removable but seated beams in epoxy splodge?

Would I be in violation of the class rules if I effected a repair to a localized area of the hull using epoxy resin instead of glass+polyester (no I don't have a hole nor intend to but things happen)?

Well no one seems ready to answer the million dollar question above...

Went sailing on the boat last weekend..it's fast and fun even in the light air but we're sailing slightly above minimum class weight and not carrying the corrector weights for our size (305 lb crew weight). It was double wire conditions on day 1 and really fun.

I knew I had some minor gelcoat issues that I patched before sailing but after flipping the boat over yesterday and re-evaluating it's worse. The original area of concern was created because there was a very minor void in the joggle seam next to the hull center line. This wasn't all the way through the hull but I filled with epoxy left over from the repair below.

I found a fairly long crack that was forming next to one of my dagger board wells in my port hull. It was damn close to the same area on Jakes boat (http://www.teamseacats.com/2011/08/13/its-stronger-than-air/), so I figured it was worth investigating further. I dremeled down and sure enough there was a void in the glass, and the core was wet. Luckily this void was all on the dagger board case side, no real voids in the seam area like Jake found. I mixed up a batch of epoxy splooge (95% collidol silica, 5% West 410 filler), filled my handy epoxy syringe and went to town. Added about 15g of epoxy to the area. Of course it rained overnight, I covered the boat in case it did and the epoxy cured rock solid. Tonight I'll fair in both spots. Work will pause as I'm waiting for gelcoat to arrive. Still haven't decided if I'll roll it on or spray it on, likely the latter.

I have seen this, and just read thru it again.

I'm figuring just about everything here would also work for the Mk1 infusion also, right?

Todd,

It worked well on my boat, which I am currently disgusted with (frankly if it was my factory these hulls would never have left the floor, owner #3 will be very happy since I'm fixing all of Nacra's QC issues).

-Sam

I prefer not to add any type of coating other than wax to the beams when seating them since any other type of coating will add space between the beam and the hull you are trying to eliminate. I've seated a ton of boat beams/hulls with only waxing the beam (partall wax) and using a thickened epoxy resin mixture (will use gelcoat in the future as it doesn't yellow and will match the hull). With this process, it only takes a gentle tap with a rubber mallet to get the beam to release once cured...PVA, wax paper, etc. is not needed. The aluminum doesn't like to stick to resins as it is - the wax gives it just a little extra incentive to not stick.

Guess we were lucky enough & didn't use anything on the N20 beams and they popped off just like you said, Jake.