14 to 16, 17 or 18 to do or not to do that is ...

I have a 14.
Brings me great joy. Now I feel I would like a larger boat because I figure size matters.

I sail solo 95% of the time with my wife or a friend the rest of the time. She is an unwilling participant.

My reasons to upgrade are Go fast, take more passengers or cargo. (cabin is on an island) I want to fly a jib and eventually a spinnaker.

I am curious about an 18. Is this too big a bite? I don't go out in big blows, just medium blows. Is the problem that you can't optimize the sailing in heavy weather or is it physically too difficult to be in two places simultaneously?

I want to know if I should go to a 17 and be happy or go for the 18 and "damn the torpedoes".

I am a reasonably competant sailor with lots of windsurfing experience. (won A fleet championships years ago)

So what's the suggestions? (I have no access locally to any other cats or sailors to ask these questions)

Hi,
A Hobie 17 won't give you much more cargo and passenger capacity than your 14. It's designed as a solo boat. A Hobie 18 is do-able with one person, but with dagger boards and all, it's probably a handful. A Prindle 18 (my boat) is simpler (and a little slower), but makes a great solo boat that can easily haul a passenger or two. Either way, you'll need to invest in a righting pole or Solo~right to recover from a solo capsize (and don't think it won't ever happen). If you are thinking about the possibility of a spinnaker, and you have the cash, you might consider one of the newer "high tech" 18 footers. I'll let someone with experience comment about them.
When I switched from a Hobie 16 to my Prindle 18, I was shocked at how much nicer the boat handles weight, waves, etc. I'm not saying it's faster, but it's so much nicer to sail if you aren't into the racing scene.
Of course, the final decision will probably be how most of us decided on a boat......You will either stumble on a deal, see one for sale along the road at a dealer, or someone in your area will tell you they saw one parked behind a barn for the last couple years??

Good luck,
Jack

You may want to consider the F16 class as well as the F18HT.

See the forum on this site or go to the website:
http://www.geocities.com/F16HPclass/

Rob
Taipan 4.9 AUS175.

Below: F16 Based on Taipan 4.9.



Taipan 4.9 Cat Rigged:

As much as im trying to keep people sailing the Hobie 16 i think the taipan is the way to go. The taipan maybe expensive boat but goes like a gun and can hold 2or 3 people any more wouldn't be advisable. If your having 3 or more i would be thinking a hobie 16 or 18 and because these 3 boats can be sailed one up and with alot of weight on boat if you want. I dont know much about the prinde but these boats are a good choice.

even if you get another boat, keep the 14.............tr

Of the four boats you mentioned, I think the Hobie 18 is by far the best choice, based upon how you said you plan to use it. It is a great boat for couples because it has the roller-furling jib so you can shorten sail if the wind comes up. It is a great singlehander and performs very well with main only. It has enough buoyancy to carry up to four adults (or lots of cargo). It is fast but forgiving. And because it is relatively heavy compared to the more modern designs, it is also more stable on the water (not as quick to fly a hull or to capsize), which I would think would be important in your cold water conditions. My husband and I raced a Hobie 18 for almost 15 years, pushing it hard, and we never pitchpoled it. It's very adaptable to a spinnaker or a roller-furling reacher (Screacher or Hooter). I am a 130-pound woman and I have no problem singlehanding a Hobie 18. If you are not accustomed to a boat with daggerboards, you will quickly learn to deal with them.

HOWEVER, if you are planning to race, you have a whole different set of criteria to consider.

And no matter what boat you get, if you are singlehanding most of the time, you should be sure to have a good system for righting the boat, whether it is shroud extenders and/or a righting pole. For singlehanders I also recommend some sort of mast flotation device so the boat cannot turtle.

Thanks for all of the great recommendations!

A dealer that I spoke to is convinced that a Getaway is the right choice.

Any thoughts? Is it dog? (meaning a slowpoke...)

It's a bit of a drag to not try all of your suggestions.

The 18 appeals to me, theTaipan looks great and appeals to my desire to go like the devil, the Prindle I haven't found yet, the F16 forum is on my favourites list. Decisions decisions decisions.

Looks like I have to think on it.

I know.... I'll go sailing today, take some wood over to finish the floor of the 24 foot geodesic dome that I am building.....

Thanks!

To be honest i dont like the gettaway it is a dog in compared to all the above boats. the gettaway is a resort boat. We say the Hobie is a resort boat but out of all of them i think that boat thats the cake of the most resort of them all. Its not really a boat i would like to take out in a gale either. I have sailed alot of boats from 18foot skiffs to hobie 14s to lazers and im only 17. This boat isn't what your looking for really. wel it might be but from what you sai above and that im an istructor at the club we have here i dont think your going to like it.

Well have fun what ever you do.

Jules

I sorta figured it was a dog. I don't like the part about not wanting to be out in a gale in it.

So my choices are narrowing.

sorry if i seemed pushy but i had a run in with a gettaway in a gale while i was racing and i almost totalled my boat!!

I wouldn't take one persons opinion as the final answer about the Getaway. I've heard many good responses about the boat and it's speed. No, you might not win any races with it, but it's a very good boat for a recreational sailor.
Jack

It is all a matter of perspective. You want the fastest boat? Buy a Hobie TriFoiler, but be honest about what you expect from any boat.

You want lots of room for friends? Get a Hobie 21 Sport Cruiser.

You want speed, capacity and reasonable durability... the Hobie 18.

The Hobie Getaway offers quite allot for the price. Super durable, reasonably fast but its not meant to be optimized for speed. It is meant to be easy to handle. It is nearly as fast as a 16 with similar 2 person crews, but has tons more capacity and stability. It is likely faster than the 16 with similar 4 person crews and certainly way more stable at that point.

Honestly, if things started getting rough, I would rather be on the Getaway than some lightly constructed glass cat that is optimized for nothing but speed. The Getaway is solid.

You want to single hand in moderate winds... The Hobie Getaway is easy to manage. You want to have 6 aboard... it can do it.

Matt,

Just out of interest does Hobie have any plans to build a boat that conforms to the F16 rules? With your large resources and R&D staff I'm sure it would be a winner.

You said:

>>Honestly, if things started getting rough, I would rather be on the Getaway than some lightly constructed glass cat that is optimized for nothing but speed. The Getaway is solid.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that lightweight = flimsy or weak. The Taipan is a lightweight boat but is very strong and very rigid. Much more rigid than say a Hobie 16. The cat rigged Taipan shown above weighs about 97kg (218lbs) and the Spinnaker version about 107 (240 lbs) or so. I'm guessing a Getaway weighs about 170kg (380lbs).

The light weight of these boats is an advantage not a liability. Trying to right a capsized light weight boat in rough weather is far easier than trying to right a heavy weight. The Taipan 4.9 for example is easily righted by one average sized man with no aids other than a righting rope - no need for shroud extenders, water bags, righting poles etc. Even when two of us are sailing and we capsize only one of us bothers to right the boat.

Don't get me wrong the Getaway looks like a great boat for what it's designed for. If I had a Getaway in the garage and an F16 and I wanted to go cruising in ten knots around the islands off my local beach with a few friends and an esky I'd grab the Getaway. If I wanted to go out flying a hull in 10 knots for a day of excitement I'd take the F16. Once it gets to 20-25 knots and rough give me the F16 - extreme fun!

I'm not trying to be confrontational just adding to the discussion. It's always good to hear your views.

Rob Wilson
Taipan 4.9 AUS175.

I hate to disagree but i dont think a gettaway is faster than a 16. Im probably wrong but hey its what i think.

The gettaway has no boom and in heavy winds the top of the main twists.

I agree it all comes down for what your using the boat for. I cant say i like the idea of a getaway because i fould feel a bit of the topic because it hasn't got a racing class and its also a heavy boat. If your going to be having friends on it all the time then for all means go for it but if you want to race go out and think what happens if i capsize well then maybe its not the best of boats.

The Hobie 16 and 18 but not as much the 18,can also be righted by one person but it comes down to how you do it. Yes you can right a taipan with out thinking but its also a more expensive boat but dam you can have some fun in them. Im not saying theres no fun in other boats here but the 16v and 18 both have trapeze and i would feel very safe to right one myself as long as its above 10knots when im sailing alone. This boat is also good because they both can handle alot and i do mean alot of people on board more so the 18 but the 16 isn't so bad.

If your thinking of going one up from now and then and dont have more than 2 people on board its the boat for you. The other advantage of the taipan is you can race it under f16 or just as the taipan itself.

Hobie 20 & 21 are very very fast and fun boats. I dont think going one up on a 20 & 21 is really a good idea but then again i dont think i could skipper one even with a crew. The hobie 20 is really a racing boat more than anything else but if you can sail it good enough then it can be anything you want. I crewed on a hobie 20 with a kite and yiou could say i was scared without the kite but when you add the kite the boat really goes like a bat out of hell. I couldn't hold the kite in anything above 15knots and it didn't help that it was 30knots. I went skipper and was just bearly holding on while my new crew (old skip) was massive enough to hold it but it was still fun.

Im not saying one boat is better than the other here but i am saying think about what your using the boat for. I weigh 64kg and i can right my 16 in above 10knots by myself but i saw a taipan which righted his boat in a manner of seconds.

Think about it and ask people who sail arond you what they think.

What's a kite?

Also what effect does not having a boom have on the Getaway in strong winds? I can't imagine the sail twist being anything less than horrific. How close can you get to the wind upwind? I can imagine the sail getting old and bagged out and it being difficult to go upwind.

Am I dreaming?

Cheers Alan

Kite = Spinnaker.

Ok here is what I think, the Getaway is great as some have mentioned and is in my view a better choice than a TheMightyHobie18 due to durability, carrying capacity, and is fast enough for most people, and is great to solo sail.

The H16 is great for two and a blast to sail, and has great class racing opportunities world wide, no matter what the nay sayers say. It’s still my favorite and my kids favorite even after sailing many other cats, including the Getaway.

So the two cats I think are a great choice is the Hobie Getaway and the 16. Also there is now the new wing seats for the H16, which is a great addition for solo sailing. I put a roller furling sail on my H16 this year, which is easy to do and great for solo sailing. Also Hobie Europe just came out with the trumpet spinnaker for the H16 and is a great success. So there is a lot of options for the H16.

And no the Getaway is not as fast as the H16, not by any means. I can say from experience that the Getaway is a great boat, very simple to set up (you won’t be setting up for an hour or so), and sure is great to take the family on.

Check out the H16 worlds website at www.hobieclass.com

Some more links and great H16 pictures!!!!!

Check out the Hobie 16 Worlds website at www.hobieworlds.com/h16-2004/default.asp



The following pictures are from www.hobieworlds.com/h14-2003/default.asp

Sorry boys and girls a bit off topic but that last web site given thats the new Hobie 16 worlds.

Also if your into racing i dont know about any where else but in Australia we cant race the nats and other regatta with the kite just a bit more info for you. Phew i was sure the 16 was faster.

the 16 and gettaway are great boats its just im not a big fan of the gettaway because of previous experiences but you probably waont have them so dont worry.

Well i havent' seen them twist but i heard that they do and im thinking that they are similar to the hobie wave. The twist is only in the very top section like above the top to batterns. Its annoying when you have alot of weight but when your a light weight i dont think you would have a problem because it will minimise power.

I think the 16 is also one of the best boats because it can handle alot of weight and is a great blast for people who love speed.

I gave the H16 worlds website so those that are interested know where it is. This is going to be great event with a very large turnout.

You can race a H16 with a spinnaker in Europe as they just finished a couple of events there with spinnakers that were great success. The youth also got to sail the H16 with a spinnaker and all reports indicated the kids had a lot of fun, etc. So latest word is the H16 works exceptionally well with the new spinnaker system, and that more events are planned with H16's using spinnakers. Next sailing season these spinnaker systems will be available in North America, and I for sure plan to get one and race with it, even if it is in non-hobie regattas. Of course I will continue to race in standard H16 regattas.

As I understand it the top of a square top main twisting off is a good thing as in heavy winds it tends to self reef. I have a square top main on my H16 and for sure makes it faster and easier to handle in a blow.

im guessing your going to the worlds then. See you there. We have around 8 skipers and there crews just for the youth coming from Australia i dont know about the opens but we have alot.

Sorry off toic. the Hobie 16 in the worlds will be sailed without the kite and wont be introduced for a long time but dont let that discourage you from not getting one.

Exactly how can the H16 handle "a lot of weight" with those low-bouyancy hulls? What is, in your opinion, "a lot or weight"? 350lbs, 500lbs, 1000lbs? They used to rent some H16s near here and I'd see them putting around with 4 people on that little tramp and hulls all but submerged. In my opinion, that just doesn't cut it. I've had 7 people (definately over 1000lbs) aboard my boat, with room for them all, and the hull-stripes weren't even under. It was a day with a good amount of wind and some nice rollers and the boat handled very well and moved swiftly. After dropping all the girls off my crew and I double-trapped at very good speed back to my launching point. Even with 22 year old dacron sails (boomless, too) I can keep up with most H18s and P18s in the area. It's also a dryer ride than most other catamarans I've sailed on.

Hans Giessler still races the 16 and 18 models and consistently places well. G-Cats are still a competitive design, and definately worth a look if you can find one in your area. The only boat I'd like to replace my G-Cat 5.7M with is a G-Force 21 Grand Prix

One thing I am a bit confused about is the definition of centreboard / daggerboard.

On a windsurfer a daggerboard rotates back if it hits something and a centreboard doesn't.

Is that definition the same with Hobies? If so what does a TheMightyHobie18 (D/C) keel device do when it hits something? What about a 16?

Cheers Alan

A centerboard on a catamaran is typically referring to a swing up design. Dagger boards slide in a slot and do not rotate back when you strike something. Depending on the force of the strike, it could do some damage to the board or to the slot in the hull. Hobie 16s, Prindle 16 & 18s and some others have a hull designed with one flat side. Not as effective as centerboards or dagger boards, but it gets the job done.
Jack

On catamarans, a dagger-board simply slides up and down to adjust hieght. It does not retract if it contacts something. Daggerboards hitting bottom at high speeds are the cause of numerous pitchpoles and cracked hulls. When in the up position they stick out of the deck. Crews sitting behind the raised dagger-boards on a downwind run have broken ribs when the bows dug in and they were sent flying into the 'board.

Centerboards rotate to the down position. They are comparatively low-aspect, but can rotate upwards on contact. However, under heavy side-loads (typical upwind and reaching conditions) there is so much pressure on the board that it will not rotate easily. Still, they aren't nearly as likely to break the boat, and when in the up position they're contained within the hulls instead up sticking out of the deck.

The H16 has asymetrical hulls, which don't require boards of any type, but are not as efficient. H17s use centerboards and H18s use daggerboards. Getaways and similar designs use little skegs which do more to help the boat track straight than add windward performance. I'm not saying these boats can't go to windward, but they do so less effectively then the other types.

G-Cats have symetrical-yet-boardless hulls that still go to weather well, add no complexity to sailing, and dig into the sand on shore so much that cat-trax are a must for moving the boat any more than 20', even with two people.

Any pictures or websites for the G-Cats?

Cheers Alan

Here is the web site for the g cats
http://www.g-catmultihulls.com/

banannahead

Here is some more info about the H16:

With it's legendary design and induction into the Sailing Hall of Fame, the Hobie 16 is truly in a class of its own. The 1996 Hobie 16 World Championship, held in The United Arab Emirates, drew over 300 teams from 55 countries competing on new, factory-supplied boats. In past Telex Regattas (the worlds largest multihull regatta) the H16 has won the event and even today with all the new so-called modern designs the Hobie 16 continues to win, placing first in its length and second overall in 2002. The Hobie 16 was the first multihull of any length, class, or design used for an official disAbled (Trapseat) World Championships. Thirty years of racing and going stronger than ever.
Powerful enough to challenge veteran sailors yet easy enough for beginners, the Hobie 16 is the perfect all-around cat.

The Hobie 16 very effectively protects the crew form spray, thanks to its banana shaped hulls and raised trampoline that is very high over the water. The ingenious hull design requires no centerboards and does not slide-slip in the water. The outer side of each hull is relatively flat, and the inner sides of each hull curves like an airplane wing to develop “lift,” in this case a horizontal force pulling the hull inwards. When the wind is dead astern or dead ahead the “lift” from each hull is perfectly opposed and cancel each other out and when the wind blows from any side, the leeward hull sinks deeper (more wing in the water) than the windward hull, and its “lift” towards windward dominates. Also due to this unique hull design the Hobie 16 is considered the undisputed king of the surf, no catamaran handles better in the surf. The standard Hobie 16 overall Portsmouth rating is 76.1, with Trapseats at 77.6, and the Turbo version provisional rating is at 70.5, all these ratings are without a spinnaker. New in 1997 were European designed (tighter fitting) corner castings, pylons and rudder gudgeons for improved sailing qualities. For those with disAbilities the Trapseat wing seats are the perfect addition. The ‘Trapseats’ bolt onto each side of the Hobie 16 easily and are comfortable for everyday cruising. And even people with the most challenging disabilities can sail a Hobie 16 with Trapseats with ease and on equal terms to those without disabilities. After 30 years the Hobie 16 is still the #1 rental and sailing school catamaran, due to its durability, speed, and meeting disAbilities requirements – the ADA (with addition of Trapseats). The fastest asymmetrical hulled centerboard-less (16’) cat in production. The Hobie 16.... The ultimate one design class, rental, and sailing school catamaran.

END

I have also sailed G-Cat and when compared to other high performance cats I really felt no speed or performance advantages. Seems to be some interest in this cat and would be a good idea to ask Rick White to create a forum for the G-Cat as this is a H16 forum. I did go to the G-Cat website and forum and there were only a few post on the forum so maybe there is not enough interest in having such a forum. It did seem to indicate on the G-Cat website that they are still building it. Once again there is a forum on the G-Cat website.