H16 vs. H14 capsizing

Hey gang, quick one here:

When I flip on the 16, it seems like the mast kind of hangs out near the surface for a bit and then if I don't make some effort to get the boat up then it will slowly start down towards a turtle.

Compare that with my (first) two capsizes on the H14 this past weekend where the first time the only reason it didn't turtle was that I didn't have the boat figured out yet (WAY less stable standing on one hull than the 16!) and I therefore kept spinning it from one hull to the other. lol
The second capsize it went right over and the mast went down and stuck two feet into the mud at the bottom of the lake. My friend came over in his ski boat and helped me remove the mast from the mud, which was nice.

What I can't figure out is why the dang H14 doesn't want to stop at simply "capsized" and tries to turn turtle immediately. There are enough 14s out there that somebody must have the answer. I'd rather not have the silly mast bob but I may resort to that if I don't get other ideas.

I don't believe the mast is taking on any water because it's still pretty light carrying it around. When my 16 mast took on water it weighed a friggin' ton. So I think there's something else involved.

Help please!

Hey, Jim. I have both boats as well, and I have not had a similar experience with my 14. We both thought of the obvious, water in the mast, but you seem to be convinced that this is not the case. Nonetheless, if I were you, I would do the standard mast vs. water test. The mast on my 14 seems to be water tight and virtually floats like a champ. Have you had the main sheet out of the cam once the boat is in the water?

If all else fails, you would look pretty damn cool if you added the hobie bob... Watch out H14 nationals!( sarcasm )

Don't feel too bad though; some people seem to have trouble with the 14 even whilst on land.

Nice sails! Don't ya just love the Tequilla Sunrise colors?

Jim,

In 20 years of sailing my Hobie 16 I think I have turtled only twice. The boat doesn't have a tendency to start to turtle as you describe I never retrofitted to the comptip mast and I wonder if the extra weight is what causes that slow turtle on your 16. Do you have a comptip mast? Did the 14s get changed to comptip? The reason I turtled that I remember was a 25 to 35 mph wind blowing on the tramp with the mast still downwind.

Howard

Not sure if the 14s ever went comptip, the '75 we have is all aluminum again. Your H16 turtle experience you describe is the same scenario as happened to me.

This past Saturday I ran two empty gallon jugs up the H14 mast with the sail (tied to the halyard shackle) and when we capsized the mast stayed right at the surface. Also, the new righting system I installed made getting the boat back up much easier.

Thanks for your input!

Say Jeffrey,
Correct me if I am wrong, but the boat in your photo appears to be a 16 not a 14. Notice that the shrouds connect to the hull not to the tramp frame.
Greg H16, H14

Hi, I'm new here ... reading some posts I found "Comptip Mast" that help you about this ... just for info ...

Even in my opinion and my little experience the H14 try to turtle immediatly, especially if the mast isn't silly. I'll try to add the hobie bob as jeffrey suggested ! Hope it works and prevent me to turtle again !

Mizi

I had the pulley go on my masthead on my 16. I replaced it with the new masthead without realizing that the new one does not seal the mast. The first time I flipped it turtled almost immediately. It took several peopel to help right it.(very embarassing) Another time though I was really far out on the water (like multiple miles from land) and a wave took us end over end. It thought it was gonna turtle again and we were totally screwed but somehow it stayed on it's side. Now I've re-sealed the mast and I haven't flipped yet since then but before i replaced the head i never had a problem with it turtling at any rate. I've never had a 14 but for the 16 anyway (and I assume for the 14 as well) if the mast is actually sealed it should definately provide enough boyancy to keep the boat from turtling. If your convinced the mast is not taking on water, perhaps a hull is leaking. if you flip on your side and the top hull has water in it, that might be enough to take it all the way down.

A strong wind blowing on the tramp can drive the H-16 to turtle even if the mast is not leaking. Getting the boat turned around so the mast faces the wind will help prevent it. Getting out of the turtle is easy. Put your weight on the stern end to get the bows to come straight up rather than try to bring one hull up . The boat will fall over to the side once the mast gets near the surface.

Howard

really? One time when I was turtled the bows were comming up in the air and the boat was rolling from hull to hull but not popping up. Than again I had one hull half full of water :P . Anyway, so are you saying that if the boat is positioned with the bows pointing straight up and the mast head on the surface it will right on it's own just from the weight distribution? If this is the case that could be a real easy way to right the boat alone..

nevermind, i misread. now I see what you meant.

To answer the original question, the reason the 14 turtles much quicker than the 16 is to do with the difference in mast length. Generally a boat with a longer mast is less prone to turtling than a boat with a shorter mast.

However when a boat is on its side the shorter mast boat is generally easier to right.

Gareth
www.fourhulls.com

Sorry but ... the tip works even without crew ? If so can you explain me where exactly I have to place my feet !

Thanks
Mizi

Mizi,

You have to hold on to the righting line and get behind the balance point. It has been a long time since I actually had to do it that I can't visualize where I was standing. The balance point is the front pylon so I may have just stood on the rear of the tramp. I was given this tip in a Hobie Fleet meeting and only did it a couple of times. It was easy to do. The last time I turtled was about 10 years ago.

Howard

Thank you Howard !
Is enough detailed, I'll remember your words.

Mizi

Mizi,

I answered your post early this morning just before I went out to go sailing so I rushed through it. Your question was "even without crew?". The last time I did it I was alone because my crew had fallen off. He and I were both on the wire and he went in to straighten out the main sheet. When he went back out he didn't know he had come unhooked and put his weight on the hook that wasn't there. The wind was up around 25 to 35 mph (per weather report) and I couldn't get the boat to come about. I finally put more power to it and turned over. The wind on the tramp caused it to turtle. My crew was 300 yds (close to 300 meters) from me so I got it out of the turtle by myself by raising the bows. I think the bouyancy of the mast helps a lot as the bows come up. I also got the boat the rest of the way up alone that day. There is another trick that helps. If you travel the jib all the way out on the down side and pull the jib sheet tight on that side without cleating it, it will trap wind in the jib and help lift the mast while you are pulling on the righting line (and holding the jib sheet). In this case, the mast should be angled back some off the wind rather than straight into it. You don't cleat the jib since the wind on the jib could blow the boat on over again.

Howard
(I wasn't sailing the Hobie today, I was sailing a catboat which is a cat of a different breed.)

Thank's a lot Howard !