Forestay Length on New Hobie 16

Sailing yesterday, there was someone setting up a brand new Hobie 16. He had the mast up and the forestay fastened but the mast was leaning back at a 20 deg angle or more. Shrouds were loose. I suggested that the forestay was way too long but he said he checked with the dealer and was told it was correct and that all was normal. He said he had the Aussie set up for jib halyard tension but I don't believe that is related. Is this normal on new boats or did the dealer just want to avoid the problem? In earlier posts someone worried about the mast coming out of the socket if stored without the sails on the beach. The shrouds on this boat were so loose there is no doubt that could happen.

Yesterday in NC on Jordan Lake I had all the wind I needed and it blew steady all day. We were screaming across the lake and even passed a pontoon boat. He was moving slow but I don't think he expected a sailboat to go by.

Howard

We recently shortened the Aussie forestay by 4 inches to 19 feet, but since the last Worlds in Mexico we were at 19' 4 inches. Yes the mast looked to be leaning aft, but to allow maximum mast rake we used the longer length. The rigs stayed on the beach that way for 3 weeks with no problems.

The maximum mast rake is block to block on the mainsheets using smaller diameter sheeves... and the shrouds loose to allow the mast to lean to leeward. We saw this rigging at the Neumea Worlds. Light "junior" teams were doing it so they could hold the boat down in the high winds.

For USA production we then took the 4" out. They still lean very far aft for the average guy. Well for that matter, the length we used starting after 1982 looked way aft to a lot of people. In the last few years we were even recommending a second ten hole adjuster on the forestay to get the rake people wanted. The new length just copied that.

The forestay is only a rigging helper, not a structural wire. The jib luff wire becomes the forestay once the halyard is tensioned. If you want the mast tensioned when the sailes are down, you can shackle the jib halyard to the forestay adjuster and tension the halyard. If the halyard is not long enough, add a length of line tied to the adjuster to reach up to the halyard shackle.

Matt,

The mast was leaning so far back that there must have been more than a foot of slack in each shroud. That is far more than necessary to connect the shrouds to the lowest hole on the adjuster. Since the forestay doesn't determine the rake, only the lowest point to fasten to the adjuster, I don't understand why you would add a second 10 hole adjuster. Leaving slack in the shrouds as you described means not tensioning the jib halyard enough. Are you depending on the main sheet tension to keep the mast in the socket? If so doesn't that get dangerous when manuevering like coming about?

Howard

We were adding 10 hole adjusters to the original forestay systems after April 1995, not the Aussie. The lower forestay at 17' 6" (Since 1982) and newest shrouds at 18' 11" (Since April of 1995) left the rig too tight. You almost could not connect the forestay. When we came up with the longer Aussie forestay, it was supposed to be equal to the length of the forestay assembly plus the extra 10 hole. Somehow it ended up longer. That is the reason we reduced it by 4" recently to 19' even.

Yes the jib halyard tensions the rig. Although, as noted before, some sailors were rigging with loose shrouds and maximum rake requiring a longer forestay. They were light and it was really windy... they also kicked butt.

Photos from the 2002 H-16 Worlds in New Caledonia:



Notice the extreme mast rake, coupled with a lot of traveller - and the way slack leeward shroud. The forestay is nearly taught in the second photo.

No, I think Howard's concern is that when tacking you don't necessarily have tension on either shroud, and with as much slack as he saw in the other boat's shrouds on the beach, a wave or something could pop the mast out of the socket. Hence his question "are you counting on the mainsheet," (and forestay) "tension to keep the mast in the socket?"

Interesting question. Thoughts?

Jim,

You are exactly right about my concern. I tension my rig with the jib halyard so both shrouds are tight. While I am sailing the lee shroud usually shows some slack due to mast bend and all the force on the windward side. When out on the wire, if the wind lets up, I see the windward shroud go a little slack (and usually go in right away). If you purposely leave slack in the shrouds with the jib halyard, as you say, a wave or bouncing around could let the mast come out of the socket as you come about and all tension is off.

Howard

Well... yeah. I don't recommend the rig being that loose.

The 14 on the other hand is sailed with a loose rig. The rule of thumb was to grab the shroud and turn your hand 90 degrees. The mast would have to come up quite a bit to come out, but I have had it happen to me upon hard pitch pole.

Once again, the long (rigging) forestay is just to be SURE that the wire takes NO load when sailing as shown in the photos, it can get close with dramatic rake.