For newbies...what worked and what didn`t !

As some of you know, I restored an old 1977 H16 (see post "major restorations" for more details) and have finally been sailing it - loving it even more than I thought I would. In the course of my restoration which began last January, I have asked many questions on this site and received much advice - most of it very, very good. So, mostly for the other newbies like me, I would like to respond to some of the advice and mention a few things regarding what worked for me and what did not.

(1) Sailing gloves...don`t leave home without em! And, keep a spare set for visiting crew members.

(2) Boat shoes/water socks are a MUST HAVE item for you AND YOUR CREW. You may think you (or your crew) can sail barefoot, and actually you can...but when it comes time to right a capsized, freshly waxed H16 on a beautiful breezy day, you`ll be wishing to God you had those rubber shoes between your bare feet and that hull.

(3) Someone mentioned using cheap, industrial saran-type wrap over the entire mast while trailering as well as carrying along basic cleaning supplies. This sounded a little uneccessary to me, but since I had some of the wrap (10 bucks for about a thousand feet), I figured why not. This was great advice. After doing 18 miles on a gravel road in the rain, the only clean thing I had left was that mast and the new white sails in my catbox. The wrap takes less that 3 minutes to apply and costs just pennies. Take a razor so as to remove it easily with one slice up the luff track.

(4) Restoring the colour on an old vinyl tramp with automotive vinyl dye works quite well. It is cheap and easy. Be sure to remove all contaminants first and be prepared for occassional touch-ups.

(5) I had read some information regarding the old-style Seaway jib cars being difficult to uncleat under load - this is an understatement of the highest order! I subsequently asked for advice regarding their replacement and the general consensus was...I was a newbie...don`t worry about it...and, if it ain`t broke don`t fix it -BAD ADVICE. These cars have a serious design flaw (in my opinion) - they came out of the box broken! If you have the money, replace them. They really do suck.

(6) Spend the time to put together a great tool kit with lots of spare parts. Use your imagination as to what might break (pretty much anything) or get dropped in the drink. Stock up on what you can afford, you won`t regret it - I guarantee it! The stresses on these boats can be incredible.

(7) Carry a properly rigged righting line (and righting bag with block and tackle if sailing solo) the FIRST time you go out. Do not assume you will not need it because you will "only be sailing slow". This boat is awesome in a good wind, and you WILL need this equipment. This was definitely GOOD ADVICE.

(8) Do not even think about sailing this boat solo your first time out...unless you really, REALLY understand sailing and the power of this boat. Even then, it is best to take someone with you.

(9) Do not be afraid of this boat - be informed and respectful. However, at times the H16 will most certainly scare the stuffing out of you. To be truthful, I was a bit scared prior to sailing the H16 - it is my first sailboat - though I am an experienced boater and navigator... Read lots of catamaran stuff, get some videos, understand ALL the parts of your boat and their individual state of repair. Be equipped for every eventuality you can imagine.

(10) Velcro line-wraps are a great invention.

(11) Carry a short (4 to 6 ft) length of rope with you when you sail. It may come in handy. I broke my tiller yoke in a strong wind that was blowing me onshore towards a cliff. That rope allowed me to quickly lash my tiller and get back to safety. And yes, I had a spare yoke in my tool kit!

(12) Krylon Fusion adheres and holds up amazingly well to a properly prepped old rudder (albeit I can only vouch for fresh water sailing). They look brand new...it is a great product.

(13) Bridle vanes, windvanes, 8 track tape - whatever... MUST HAVE - even the first time out!

(14) Mast bearings are definitely equal to more than the some of their (single) part. Don`t forget one. The luff-track bearing from Hobie is pretty handy too.

(15) Stepping the mast may surprise you the first time you do it. It is heavier and more awkward than you may think - even for a strong guy. Be sure to have someone else there the first time FOR SURE - and have a plan. With good technique, it gets a lot easier. As for the advice that "two people can step a mast WITHOUT a stepping link kit" - this is bad advice. Though I am sure it is possible, I am also sure it is quite dangerous for the inexperienced...get the stepping link kit and buy a spare too!

(16) Check and re-check that all your lines and travellers run freely and and have no tangles BEFORE you leave the beach - EVERY time you go out. I seem to have a brain-block on this one and it can really be a pain in the butt when you forget to do this.

(17) Silicon spray is something you need on a regular basis, especially on the travellers. Keep some in the tool kit.

(18) I LIKE my Baby-Bob mast float a lot - if only for that little bit of confidence and security it imparts. Besides that, I really like the look of it too. Nobody has called me a sissy yet (not to my face anyhow - thats all I care about). I say; BABY-BOB and proud of it! We can always start a support group if the ridicule gets too much!

(19) With the above information and more - especially regarding the books and videos - you can be flying your hulls, completing your tacks, and righting your capsized boat the very first time you go sailing. BUT, be prepared for the experience, it is powerful and addictive... truly one of lifes` greater pleasures - at least it is for me!





Hope this helps someone,

Dave

What part of Ontario are you from.I am in Thunder Bay.

That's great advice Dave! Especially regarding the theory that the first time out you will be going nice and slow - first time out for my girlfriend and I we had perfect "beginner" conditions forecast and it ended up changing into a gale whilst we were out on the water. Turned into a near disaster!!

A good idea to check that things are working smoothly even before you hit the water - rudders locking up and down properly, etc. First time out should be fun, not an exercise in frustration

i also like the idea of checking everything before leaving the beach... though sometimes you dont have the luxury of doing so, like when the beach is closed and theres a coast guard boat right on your tail

Good advice! The H16 was my first sailboat as well and I just started racing it this summer.

Some more advice:
Don't forget to use your mast step link.
At the last regatta I was at I watched the guys with a H17 next to me forget to use the step link and they almost dropped the mast. I was laughing a little and wondering how someone could forget to use it and sure enough when I went to drop my mast I forgot to use it, luckily I caught it in time.

Mmadge,

I live about 2 hours outside of Toronto. Although we both live in the same province, I think you are about the same distance from me as the Florida border.

Dave

May I add "(20) Check for the presence of both drain plugs before leaving shore" ?

I know this from first hand experience....

I like your list and would add that you should check and grease trailer bearings, check tires and make sure you have a spare, lug wrench and a jack that you can use on the trailer. Also check trailer lights.

Howard

Tom and Howard,

You guys are making me bust a gut laughing...you can sure as heck bet I added those two items to my list!

- my trailer is well equipped...and as for the drain plugs, I learned that one the hard way during the maiden voyage of a friend`s brand new 60hp aluminum fishing boat. We couldn`t figure out why the boat was so gutless and wouldn`t plane...until we looked behind us...90 seconds out of the dock and we nearly lost the boat. We had to actually go under water (while inside the boat!!) to stuff those drain-plug holes.

- I have 2 spares for the Hobie.


Dave

One more thing I found useful to have is one of those "Hobie Tools". These are great to carry on the boat and are very useful when you have to make a repair/adjustment on the water or at a nearby beach after you left your launch site. I personally carry two styles, the one from Murray's and the smaller Hobie brand tool. I have also since added a Leatherman Tool. You can do just about any quick hardware reapir on teh boat with those three tools

BTW, I wish I had a list like this when I started. Most of them were learned the hard way.

Hey Nick,

I actually carry your list of tools (not the Murrays tool) on the boat plus a rigging knife with a marlin spike (handy) - though my multitool is not a genuine Leatherman - nice. I use large stainless steel (spring loaded) carabiners from the hardware store to simply clip them to the underside of the tramp lacing...It looks like a chinese hardware store under there! - everything is hanging from the ceiling.

A question for you regarding the Hobie tool; on one end of the tool there is about a 1 inch long protrusion that is about 1/4 inch wide and concave/convex - almost like it could slip under a fingernail. I cannot figue out what the heck it is for. It looks real handy too -- I just don`t know for what...so - for now it remains UNHANDY!


Dave

I have always used is as a marlin spike or fid. It has the convex/concave shape for strength so you can bend it around. I use it mainly to untie tight knots. It's teh same tool I bought from Murray's.

I wear that tool around my neck beneath my life jacket. I probably should get a divers knife and attach it to my jacket as I leave my leatherman (multi-tool) in my tramp bag. Kind of hard to cut yourself out of line if you can't get to the knife.

One more thing I remembered I carried in that bag is 50' of 3/8" rope for towing. If you ever need a tow it never hurts to have the line. It also comes in handy for jury-rigging a righting system if need be. My freind has lost about 4 righting buckets while saling. They have all fallen off of the tramp and sank.

I too was thinking it may be wise to keep the knife on my body as opposed to under the tramp. I have not considered losing my righting bag or the tow rope - both are very good things to consider. From my limited experience, I doubt I could right the boat with just my Hawain rigged righting line. I found that even with the Bag it had to be filled to the brim for me to bring the boat over (I am 180lbs). Perhaps better technique will improve upon this.

Dave

I solved the solo righting problem with cookies... At least that's what I tell my fiancee. I need to eat the junk food so we can right the cat easier

Anyhow, I was able to right my H16 solo in 10kts of wind. Granted I had a few pound on you and being tall I am able to get my CG farther out from the boat (6'2" 250lbs). I used just the cheap EZ right bungy system form Hobie. My TheMightyHobie18 is a different story. I need help with it. I am working on a righting pole system. I am taking the idea from others on this site.

Heed Captain Dave's advice. #1 in my book is good gloves - they're worth their weight in skin! As for the Baby Bob, why do you tempt us to riducule? I like Jamie Z's solution - use an old plastic milk jug instead.

I've seen on some mono's black closed cell foam about 1/2" thick glued to the top 3' of the mast. It wrapped from one side of the luff track to the other. This is less noticable and possibly "cooler" but I wonder what it does to the airflow over the mast...

Plastic milk jug ? Black Foam ? ...and I suppose one would use grey duct tape (no less) to secure these flotation devices!
...Repeat after me - B.A.B.Y B.O.B ! is COOL, SUAVE, SEXY!!!

-that`s my story, and I`m sticking to it.



Dave

Really, if the boat goes turtle is it that big of a deal to right it? And if you swim out to the mast head promtly it won't go all the way over anyway. I just can't bring myself to get a float...... No matter how many times I have my sails spread over the lawn washing off the mud. It gives you a better reason to work harder at keeping it upright.

Not cool, not suave, not sexy. If I ever felt a need for a Bob, I would trade my H16 for a jetski. I also have never worn gloves.

i hear that... plus i cant afford things like a bob... or gloves for that matter, i bought i H16 so i didnt have to spend money on gas and could still have a good time on the water

I have never used a mast float. I usually sail in deep enough water where the mast won't hit bottom when turtled. So, it is realtively easy to bring it back up.

But, I only sailed without gloves once. I learned really quick that $20 is well worth a pair of gloves that will last about 3 seasons.

On a good day 20-25kts when you are on the water for 8-10 hrs straight how in the world do you keep your hands from getting torn up? I don't have girly hands by any means. I also crew on a 70' gaff rigges wooden schooner that has Dacron halyards and sheets. Most of the time I lower the peak and the throat of the gaff simultaneously which entails letting them slide through your hands. After a week of this the callouses on your hands are pretty substantial.

But when I am on my Hobie my hands get wet and the callouses are ineffective. Plus with gloves I have a significantly better grip on the line.

Just my 2 cents

Gloves are not a luxury item. They are almost a necessity. Once when I didn't have any and needed them, I cut the finger tips off some work gloves. Not the best but better than no gloves.

About getting out of the turtle. It is not difficult. Don't try to raise one hull. That won't work. Just put your weight at the stern and get the bows to come up. The boat will flop over on one side and you go from there.

Howard

[color:"green"]Nick, I lived and sailed on a 35' gaffer for 2 years. I think letting the lines slide through your hands is not the best technique. Hand over hand worked for me. But perhaps the situation on a 70 footer is way different. Howard, You are certainly free to use gloves if that's the way you want to do it. You too Captain Dave.
I just added my comments due to the intensity of your "tips" to new cat sailors. It ain't necessarily so, and I think Bobs and gloves are optional. I would hate to think that new folks might be "brainwashed" by you experts due to the strength of your arguments, and wanted to offer them another opinion.
Best to all, Enjoy with or without whatever... [/color]

Ralph,

I know you are an experienced sailor though fairly new to Hobies. I found that the force required to tighten the main sheet in strong winds did a lot of damage to my hands especially in the beginning of the season. I don't really let the line slide out through my hands. I switched from the standard 5 to 1 blocks to the 6 to 1 and even with the extra leverage I still occasionally need to use 2 hands to tighten the sheet. Sailing my catboat I don't use gloves and don't find the need for them except when jibing. That large sail just goes out too fast and it is not possible to slow it down much.

Howard

And don't forget to remove the step link....sailing is a bitch when the mast won't rotate.

Hey Mr.WHOA,

"Intensity", "arguments", "experts", "brainwashed"?

Perhaps you should read the entire post again and ask yourself honestly if ANY of the adjectives you have used are an accurate reflection of either the tone or the content of what has been written here in this post.

- Perhaps you are just having a bad day.

Dave

Whoa,

I really didn't like to let teh lines slide through my hands, but with only 2 crew aboard, lots of wind, and a tightly packed harbor you need one crew to control the boat and the other is left to drop the sails. As you know you need to keep the gaff at a certain angle for the sails to stay organized. We were left with little choice but to lower both the throat and the peak simultaneously with only one crew.

Everyone, on the subject of gloves. You don't have to have them. People have been sailing for centuries and didn't have fancy sailing gloves for most of that time. But, for $10 - $20, you can get a decent pair. Why not try them and decide for yourself if you prefer to wear them. I thinkn the intension of that suggestion was that for most people gloves have become standard sailing equipment and they are trying to save newcomers from any bad expereinces they had.

I'm with you, Dave -- the bob is cool, suave and sexy! It would be irresponsible to discourage people from using a bob, especially new sailors and recreational sailors who usually are not sailing in a group environment. I think it is an important safety feature.

And any man who is intelligent enough to care about his safety and the safety of his friends and family who may be sailing with him is a very cool and sexy guy in my book.

As far as sailing gloves, they ARE necessary for sailing most catamarans unless you want to toughen up your hands by following a regular regimen of soaking them in a bucket of saltwater while massaging a hank of hemp rope.

Mary,

Thank you for the vote - I think I needed it! I was half-finished writing the new Bylaws for my Baby-Bob support group when I read your post. Thankfully, I no longer feel the need to write them.

Seriously though, I do not understand the aversion to the mast float. I do view it as a safety thing - albeit not a compulsory one. I believe I worded it as such in "my list".

I sail in cold, often shallow waters and never with a group (yet). One location (north east Georgian Bay) is VERY remote (no cell, no radio, no people - no nothing!). Almost all of the shoreline there is completely unsuitable for any type of watercraft landing - though such a location is really beautiful, it is also, as one can imagine, hazardous.

In my limited HobieCat experience, I have put a premium on getting out of the water quickly and efficiently - with as little chance as possible for requiring any assistance. The mast float provides some extra insurance on this count. It was not an expensive item and I really like the look of it too. It may be unneccessary for some, but not for me.


Dave

The bottom line on the mast float (or any other gear for that matter) is unless you race, do whatever makes sailing more enjoyable for you. If not worrying about turtling in shallow, cold water makes your day on the water more enjoyable, then by all means put a mast float on. Unless there are a bunch of beach cats up there, you are the envy of every other sailor in the area because you are on a cat and they are not. No one is noticing the mast float.

for me, the bob and the gloves are just luxuries... luxuries which i cant afford, i also have some burly climbing calusses in place of gloves and an old life jacket to keep my boat from turtling, but when reading on this turtling issue... i notice everyone just talks about how to prevent it, but how do you right it once it has turtled? ...plus i think the bob would keep you from going as fast as possible, and with an old boat, every little bit helps

If you look back a page you will see that I mentioned a little about getting out of a turtle. The trick is that you don't try to lift one hull out and over. You get your weight near the stern and get the bows to rise straight up. The boat will fall over on its side and you are out of the turtle. There will be a problem if your mast isn't watertight, however, so check it before you sail.

Howard

how do i see if its water tight, and if not tight how do i seal it? do i just like toss it in the pool or something?

There are instructions somewhere, maybe the Hobie website. It involves putting the mast in the water and looking for bubbles as I recall. I am sure someone here can be specific. I have never checked mine but have never had an indication that I needed to, such as turtling quickly when you go over. The only time I have turtled is when the wind was strong and blowing on the tramp.

Howard

Yah, that's pretty much it. Disconnect the shrouds and carry it down to the water. Get a friend to help hold one end and just push it down. Obviously there will be a little air around the sheave(s) at teh top of the mast but after that escapes you shouldn't see any more bubbles coming out. If you do, then you'll want to re-seal it. I did that last year. Drill out the rivets around the mast head (or base, depending on what side is leaking.) Pull out the old plug which is probably all crappy if it's been leaking and wet for who knows how long.... then get a fat pool noodle and (cut to fit) and shove it into the mast a little ways. Then cover with a thick coat of silicone (I used maybe 1/4-1/3 of a tube in a glue gun). When that cures ain't nothin' getting through for years. Unless you have to tear it out for some reason later. 8)~

why the pool noodle though? is it just to help it float or is it a replacement plug thing? and what if it were to leak around where the composite tip meets the rest of the mast?

Here is something to think about.
ISAF is trying to implement a new rule for trapezing. The rule basically wants trap equipment to be quick release so people don't get stuck under boats when they capsize.
Fair enough.
However, since nothing has been invented yet that would meet their requirements, they are having to amend their rule.

A better fix. A mast Bob. That way the boat cannot turn turtle and no one can be trapped under the boat.
If every boat on the water had a Bob, no one would think a thing about it.
Tell you this, I love the Bob on the Wave and do not think it slows the boat down at all.
Rick

Good point, Rick. I wonder what the posts would discus if the mast bob were the norm instead of the exception...

The pool noodle is a plug replacement. Technically, you only need to seal around the edge of the noodle that touch the mast, but for a small investment in time and money (a tube of scilicone and about 10 minutes) you can be sure that no water is going to make it past your mast plug as Jamie said.

When I began to get more confident in my sailing skills and would go out in more intense conditions I would turtle on those gusty days while tacking. As the bows came through the wind on a tack I would hit a wave and/or a gust and the boat would do a back flip (I later figured out that I was not getting my weight far enough forward, especially when sailing solo).

Once I got the boat on it's side by standing on a stern if I did not have a sealed mast I would not have been able to get the boat righted fast enough.

So, the point is take the time to check if your mast is sealed.

I am seeing alot of posts on this forum about the bob... do we need to make a forum post solely for the debate of this thing? and rick you may be right, if hobie manufactured all their boats with the bob nobody would have a bad opinion of the thing... or any opinion of the thing, i keep an old life jacket handy on board so when i flip i swim out and clip it to the mast, since i cant afford the bob

It seems to me most unfortunate that there is ANY debate regarding the merits of something which can (even just once) provide additional safety to an individual. With that said, I hadn`t even considered the chance of being trapped UNDER a boat until Rick mentioned it.

So far, no one has debated convincingly that a mast float WILL NOT provide additional safety to the sailor - because clearly it can in some instances, and obviously more-so for some individuals than others depending on one`s sailing habits or expertise. Other than the sailor who cannot spare the expense (a legitimate reason), the main reason NOT to have a float seems to be that it is "not cool". Such a battle of perceptions then becomes reminiscient of almost every other safey device which has come along in the past; whether it be forecast warnings to mariners in the early part of the century, or the device resisted by NASCAR which may have saved Dale Earnhardts` life.

In reality, most people can state with absolute confidence that they have never truly needed a life-jacket. They can further state that if they had never once worn one - in their entire life - they would be no worse off. They could then say (in some cases) how unnecessary that particular safey aid is/was - and represent themselves as living proof of their argument. This is not to suggest that a mast float is as important as a life jacket - because I do not think that it is - in most scenarios. The point is, we never really need safety devices until that rare moment when we actually do. The Bob falls into this category.

I am one of those cautious boaters who believes that Mr Murphy (the guy who wrote the law) was probably conceived, lived and died on a boat - that place we all love but also has a nasty habit - usually through a combination of unfortunate events - of causing even the best among us to end up in serious trouble.

As a newbie to the H16 scene, but certainly not to boating, I almost chose against the purchase of a mast float precisely because of the negative perceptions which I first encountered here on CatSailor. Ultimately, after thinking it through, I figured it was a good additional safety item that worked for my particular circumstances.

Putting a negative spin on anything that might EVER help someone in peril is a risky business at best. I believe this holds true regardless of how rare the perceived risk is said to be. If you do not like, or want to use a Bob, that is certainly alright - we all assess our own accommodation for risk. But, discouraging its use is entirely another matter.

Signed,

A sailor who CANNOT claim he has never needed a safey aid...twice.

Dave

Newbiesailor,
So after you attach the life jacket and right the boat, do you then sail the rest of the day with a life jacket dangling from the top of your mast?

If you are not racing, why not just go with the low-cost method suggested of attaching a gallon plastic milk jug to the top of your sail? Spray-paint the INSIDE of the jug to match some color in your sail, and nobody will notice -- or else, if you are creative, it will become the "in" thing to do.

Swimming out to the end of your mast is potentially fraught with perils, which I will not go into here.

We were at a race at Lake Cheney with winds of 35 with gusts as high as 50 mph. At the Skipper's meeting the RC suggested anyone with a 16 should seriously consider reefing their main. Which brought lots of testosterone laden chuckles and a "Hey man, you ever try to light a 16 main?". We all laughed and off the beach we go. Before the start of the first race, just trying to be stationary and wait for the other fleet starts a BIG gust hits us and my wife had the jib cleated. So here we go in a slomo blow over we can do nothing about. As we're scooting to the top of the rail I kept telling Lynn to just jump into the main, so I jumped, and she's still up ther fighting it, she manages to turn around, now facing the tramp and the boat's almost on its side, she finally lets go and while sliding on her belly down the tramp her harness hooks into the center lacing, I'm a couple of good hard crawl strokes behind watching her going turtle with the boat, I dive under the tramp (with a life jacket on) to pull the quick pin on that harness, drag her out, hang on the hull with her until she stopped coughing up water, then right the boat, sail to shore (trapped out by necessity of the wind) while she sat on the tramp crying. Praise God the harness had a quick release.

Twenty years later, we now have three beautiful sons that are into cat sailing. Safety devices are wonderful things.

By the way...after righting the boat, I did happen to sail across the starting line, so we would get a DNF instead of a DNS. We went to the beach, reefed the main, and she sat on the tramp, didn't cleat the jib, holding the sheet tight to here chest and letting her arms straighten during gusts and we finished third in second race. Thats's my better half.

well put captain dave, i think you concluded the debates over the bob... by the way, does the bob stay on when trailering and does it hit the ground if you step the mast solo? Mary, when attaching the life jacket, if you clip it to the halyard, it SHOULD slide down to the bottom, the milk jug... even thats a bit too cheap for me, and flatlander, thats an incredibly scary story there, glad to here you both came out of it ok

It stays on the mast while trailering and I haven`t encountered any problems while stepping the mast...other than jeers and guffaws (figuratively speaking of course)...But I think that will pass.

Dave

Well, I'm outta here; but before I go:
[color:"orange"] Captain Dave - It was not your initial post that got my attention and desire to respond. The repetition in later comments you made did the trick to encourage me to add my opinion to the discussion. Your suggestion that I am having a bad day because I think you are pushing your opinions too hard is an interesting way to attempt to belittle or discredit anyone who does not share your particular bias. Captain Dave, is that an ego thing? Don't bother to answer, that's a rhetorical question.[/color]
[color:"red"] Mary, "any man who is intelligent enough". So not only am I having a bad day, I am also dumb. Cute. [/color]
[color:"purple"]Rick, I am certainly glad that you love the Bob on the Wave. Has anyone ever seen Rick on an H16 with a Bob?[/color]
[color:"green"]Well it has been interesting folks. Best wishes and hope you all keep Bobbing happily along. Heh heh. [/color]

Hey Whoa,

Too bad you STILL haven`t re-read the whole post like I suggested. I made NO "additional comments" or "repetition" in reference to my list (PRIOR to your post) as you suggest - only an exchange about some tools with HobieNick and a joke about plastic milk-jugs, duct-tape and a Baby-Bob!

...Also too bad that you think someone is calling you "dumb" - that is not how I interpret the comments from others.

And, too bad you think this whole exercise is some sort of attempt to force my personal views through a process of (to quote you) "brain-washing, intensity, arguments" and acting like an "expert".

The list I compiled regarding "what worked for me and what didn`t" was created by a newbie (me). It was labelled clearly as such - not what one would expect from someone acting as an "expert".

Finally, rather than recognizing that your choice of words - "brainwashed, intensity and experts" - in describing my list/views (along with the views of others) may be perceived as an insult, you instead choose to believe that I have accused you of "having a bad day" simply because you do not agree with me. Now, that really IS an [color:"red"]"interesting way to attempt to belittle or discredit anyone who does not share your particular bias". [/color]

Yup...too bad! You`re batting a thousand - on missing the point!

Hey, Whoa, I didn't mean to say you or anybody else is dumb if you don't have a bob. I said: "...any man who is intelligent enough to care about his safety and the safety of his friends and family who may be sailing with him is a very cool and sexy guy in my book..."

So what I really meant was that if you are bobless, you are not cool and sexy.

Of course, at my age, I don't really have a "book" any more.

P.S. Please understand that I just worry a lot about you guys and I think a bob might save a life. I have been witness to many, many boats turtling -- and turtling very rapidly -- upon capsize. Being a mother and a grandmother, I am naturally concerned for the safety of small children and novice sailors. I just can't help it.

Check out the Formula 16 Forum here, the thread subject "Lucky Escapes," which just popped up today.

[quote]Hey Nick,

I actually carry your list of tools (not the Murrays tool) on the boat plus a rigging knife with a marlin spike (handy) - though my multitool is not a genuine Leatherman - nice. I use large stainless steel (spring loaded) carabiners from the hardware store to simply clip them to the underside of the tramp lacing...It looks like a chinese hardware store under there! - everything is hanging from the ceiling.

A question for you regarding the Hobie tool; on one end of the tool there is about a 1 inch long protrusion that is about 1/4 inch wide and concave/convex... I cannot figue out what the heck it is for. It looks real handy too -- I just don`t know for what...so - for now it remains UNHANDY!

Dave I have always used that protrousion for poping cams, I have also used it to pry on things on occasion but it bends pretty easily. I also dont carry a real leatherman, severall of my friends do carry them and I dont like them, instead i prefer to use a gerber multitool, they slide out. I have two, one which slides out manually and another which I dont like as much that pops out automatically, but the tools on that one are not as good. in any case I keep my tool in the pocket of my lifejacket and use it on an Hourly basis.

Is there anything aside from a mast bob that will stop a turtle if the wind is blowing hard against the underside of the tramp when you go over? The last time I was out, 20 knot winds with larger gusts, I got blown over even though my main was sheeted out as far as it would go. The mast went under and I was turtled faster than I could imagine--seemed like less than 10 seconds. I'm not convinced that my mast is sealed given how fast it went under, but even if it was, with that hard of wind, would it stay up anyway? I was out solo of course and had to wait a while in the rain for a boat to help me out. Definately don't want a repeat of that. I'm not crazy about the mast bob either, but will get one if need be.

I don't know about stopping the turtle but in the wind you described, you should be able to get it out of the turtle yourself and back up again. If you couldn't get it out of the turtle then maybe your mast has water in it. If you get to the stern of a hull and pull with your righting line the bows should come up, then fall over to the lee side. You end up with the mast into the wind and the wind helping you to right the boat. If you travel the jib on the down side all the way out and pull on the jib sheet (without cleating it) the jib will trap air and help lift the mast. It is better if the boat is turned at that point so the mast is angled off the wind a few degrees. As the boat comes up let the jib sheet go and get to the other side so it doesn't just keep going over again. I would leave the jib uncleated and sail in on the main.

Howard