Heavy winds

This weekends forecast is predicting a solid 25Knots wind. This is on my limit but I'm racing and would appreciate any advice from those who've tamed such winds
I'm looking to go for max rake, lots of downhaul and outhaul with the travellors on both the jib and main out enough to keep the boat flat. If I've missed something, or you have any additional advice which might help, please chuck it in. I'm expecting large swell, but smooth sea's with respect to small chop. Just a little nervous...
Thanks
Clint

This is in addition to what you already plan on doing...

I found tacking to be difficult in strong winds. The boat may stall. If it does, it will start going backwards. Push the tiller to luff. The boat will turn into the right direction, even though the jibe will be slow.

To avoid stalling, center your traveller as you turn into the wind, especially if you let it out before. Release the main sheet once the jib gets backwinded.

Also make sure your crew is forward as much as possible. This will help to prevent capsizing over the stern.

Get out on the water before the race to get a feel for the situation. Experiment with how far you dare to bear away on a tack (I used to turn too much into the wind for fear of capsizing).

Once out on the water, it'll feel less scary than on the beach.

Good luck!

H77

Good luck. Agree with your comments and H77's. Foot straps/holders are a MUST. Your most aft is about 6" from the stern, the other as aft as possible on the sidebar. They are essential on a reach and keep you in place when in waves or stops 'n starts.
When tacking in big winds I'm usually on the trap, close hauled, hulls level. As the cat comes into the wind, I head aft to help "pull" it through the wind. Timing is critical - as you feel in coming through and you get that "I'm gonna make it" feeling, pull yourself up quick, let out the main a little as you transfer to the new windward side. Once there, (I'm usually solo), I uncleat the jib and sheet in quickly to the new heading, trap out and sheet in the main.
I'm sure you'll get lots of other helpful ideas.
Hope you do well. Ron

Ear plugs, wool cap over your ears or a hat with ear flaps. Amazing how much calmer things seem when its quiet.

OK, so someone tell me what is the best way to sail downwind in a 16 when it is blowing the dogs off the chains. I am still trying to unlock this one!

In Delaware at the NAs in 2003 we had one day of BIG wind on Thursday. (Race committee reported sustained 30s and a puff to 44!!)

It seemed the preferred approach was to let the jib flog (so as to not push the bows down), travel the main out (so as to not gybe!), sheet on hard and be ready to do the big ease in a puff, and drive as low as you dare go without gybing.

All of that makes sense to me. But looking at the South Africa Worlds photos, i am seeing these guys sheeted off big time. It seems to me if you sheet off you present more of the sail perpendicular to the wind. Yes, it opens the leech, but you still have that big rag 90 deg. to the wind.

Thoughts?

Capsizing in heavy winds presents new problems in righting since the tramp acts like a sail and the pressure won't let you right it easily. Try swimming to the bow and holding on while in the water creating drag, and using the wind pressure on the tramp to push the stern out of the wind.

Also, beware of turtling in heavy winds, since the pressure on the tramp is known to cause the mast to go under. It happened to me, so I decided to pull up the mast to windward, but this time the wind pressure on the tramp actually righted (!) the boat with very little effort, and my crew and I had to grab the tramp and windward hull to keep the boat from capsizing again.

That was some hairy mess at the NAs in '03. I crewed for Garland Ayscue. We had the boat headed pretty much dead downwind, main out/jib blanketed. It felt okay. Gybing was the scary part. We're zooming up on C mark (gate?), other boats are crashing and cartwheeling all around and we have to decide how to get from starboard gybe to port. Tried the technique where you travel in/sheet in the main to present a small sail area and then "flick" the sail to the other gybe. Uh ... nice theory. We tumbled and got a Rehobeth Bay mud souveneir for our trouble. Major hero points to anyone who finished that race (like those Brazilian guys?).

A few years ago the weather man scheduled a nor'easter for the weekend of our points regatta at the Virginia Beach oceanfront. A couple of H16s and an A Cat(!) sacked up and headed out. Wind was not as strong as at Delaware but the waves were huge. Crashed when I tried to gybe. I think the technique where you actually head up and tack vs. a gybe would have worked. No way at Delaware though, come up a little off of DDW and it was instant death roll.

Ok, I'll say it. How about reefing the main?

The one and only time I reefed the main was for the afternoon races at regatta with reported gusts up to 50mph, and it worked very well. You know it's some serious wind if some people actually race with reefed mains or furled jibs.

I was trapped and steering only, power was controlled by my wife with the jib sheet, sawing in and out with the gusts. Never capsized...after we reefed the main

You can't reef the main on a 16 with a Comptip.

The sails coming out of the US Hobie loft don't even have reef points anymore.

But if you look at the photos from the 16 Worlds, the European sails still do (because they don't have Comptips).

Because Clint is in SA, was recalling BCT era.

Here is some stuff I wrote here a while back. If you use the 'search feature" you will find more. Bon Chance. Chris


Have you ever seen a plane fly backwards? or stalled?
Sailing stalled out (falling in an airplane) with managed projected area (twist or travel) is the key to reducing the excess of wind power you are experiencing. Every notice how slow it is when the crew oversheets the jib, he is depowering/STALLING the sails. Have you ever seen a plane fly backwards? Sailing stalled out with managed projected area is the key to reducing the excess of wind power you are experiencing.

I addition to getting your weight back, pull your main traveller (& jib) near the center of the boat with minimal twist(sheet in tight), steering ALMOST Dead Down Wind. The closer the mainsail is to the centerline the smaller the projected sail area to the wind reducing wind force and pitchpoling. This sail configuration puts the sail in a STALL, like an airplane falling through the air NEGATING lift.

**************************************
So downwind try sheeting in the jib in the puffs to stall out.
To depower more travel in the main to reduce projected sail.
To depower more and stall out reduce twist(sheet in)
and enter the 'Stalled Out Zone'.
(CAUTION sailing stalled in winds under 20nt is SLOW)
**************************************

For steering DDW try using the following (3)three indicators,
that kind of 'check and balance' each other.
First, the bow wind indicator.
Second, pay attention to the feel on helm.
You can maintain a very slight weather to neutral helm with the sails stalled out.
If the helm goes a lee you WILL eventually jibe,
so push the helm away from you to get back to neutral helm.
If the weather helm helm increases pull the stick to get back/close to neutral helm.
Finally, with the jib strapped in (stalled) watch which side the jib FAVORS, as it oscillates
back and forth (how it behaves) out of the corner of your eye, and react accordingly.
This is useful when it is raining so hard you can not see the bridal fly.

Looking behind you, often helps, as you can sheet in before the puff (dark water)
hits you. Its FUN watching the other boats go over next to you, as they let OUT their sails.

when the sail stalls and the effective shape looks like a big fat wedge whose lee side isn't bending the wind near as much as you'd like, so the lift (component of the force at right angles to the apparent wind) is much less and the drag (component of the force parallel to the apparent wind) is excessive. The combination of the two is smaller and points aft, robbing the boat of the drive.

In light - medium air I always fly the jib across in tacks but in heavy air I always seem to stall if I try that. Backwinding the jib is the easy way to tack in heavy air, but the guys above are right; you gotta be careful not to do the backwards-capsize (done it too many times. hehehe)

I find gybing in heavy air not too scary because when you're going downwind the relative wind is obviously much less; I mean if you're getting 10 knots upwind in a 30 knot blow then you've got 40 knots of wind in your face (more or less; actually (30 sin 45*)knots of wind) but downwind you're subtracting, so it might only be 10-12 knots. Anyway. I'm sure in a REAL blow it'd be rough, but I haven't sailed in much over 35 knots. The one time my buddy and I knew 50-knot winds were on their way we headed in. Better safe than sorry.

Yes, Matt, it is interesting to see the 16 reefed!

As for stalling out the boat by sheeting in, I think that may take bigger kahunas than I got! At the 1992 (?) Hobie 17 NAs in the Gorge, I pitchpoled every which way, including "stalled". I tried traveling in, sheeting out; traveling in, sheeting in; traveling out, sheeting out; and traveling out, sheeting in. None of those combinations worked. Of course, I have 13 years more experience now than the 7-8 that I had then. But still....

In Delaware it was 35-45k. The technique that Paul Hess told me to use was to travel out, sheet on hard, sail deep, deep, deep, and be ready to release the main sheet as soon as a puff hits.

After the puff passes is when the fun begins. Now you are trying to cheat that sheet in and get it in far enough so you have something to let out when the next puff hits!!

The first time around A-mark (before our 1st pitchpole), we were a couple boat lengths behind Wally and it looked like he had his main traveled out.

One thing we should've done in Delaware was let our jib flog. We were (trying to) sail with it.

We eventually did finish the race -- after flipping 6 times! But hey, we got 29th! That's because the other 42 boats had the good sense to get out of that crap!!! We even beat one poor sucker.

If anyone has any other techniques -- other than the 'stalled' technique -- I'd be interested in hearing them. It isn't that I don't believe the stalled technique will work, it's just that I don't think I have kahunas big enough to go down that path!!

The first time my wife and I had ever been on a sailboat was when we took our new Hobie 16 out in high winds. I reefed the main and left the jib off completely. We did OK for an hour or so, but even with the reefed main we had a violent pitchpole to end our day. I think it had more to do with being rookie sailors at the time and I'd recommend reefing if it's possible on you boat.

Hey that windy experience must have really left an impression. The winds in the picture in your post look almost calm....and the main is still reefed...haaa.

Sail Safe. HD.

Reefed the main for the second time in my life last Saturday. Wind 20 gusting to 30, three to four foot capping like crazy, only windsurfers and kiteboarders on the lake and no crew. At 162 pounds, even reefed, was grossly overpowered so I traveled the jib all the way out. This was sort of like flogging in that when the main was trimmed, the jib was luffing severely. It did allow me to "survive" the upwind tacks by starting the backwinding earlier and help whip the nose on around through the big chop. I tried to leave myself plenty of room from shore and not tack in the gusts to avoid "climbing the tramp" while backwinding. Just did my best to make a normal roll tack.

It was rather harrowing on the reaches (I really need footstraps...ever notice you're curling your toes to grip the rail?) almost blew over twice from the jib only. After about 40 minutes, thanked my lucky stars for quite a ride and halled her out.

I don't have a good answer for running downwind.

Peter: My opinion; Sailing and Racing in the Rehobeth style conditions in both 98 & 03 are two differant things. You are a racer and not only want to go down wind, but do it with speed. I have never seen a top sailor try to sheet the traveler in downwind. Having the main in some, so you have something to dump, and not being dead downwind, so you have somewhere to go, are both key. Both are very difficult. When going downwind stalling the sail slows the boat down and increases the wind over the boat and makes it easier to pitchpole and harder to jibe. Knowing and doing are very differant. I drove both bows into the mud in 98 in the race you mentioned. I remember the hurricane at A mark(measured real 38knots) and then trying to turn down wind.
I stayed out and started the next race when 11 of the 22 boats that stayed out went over within a minute of the start. Soon after they abandoned. As mentioned above, I watched the Brazil and PUR boats flying. We just don't get the practice in those conditions. The link shows Wally at this years Madcatter showing his downwind form in 30ish. He's pretty good. Practice, Practice, Practice. We all need to hold one of your programs for racing in PUR this winter.
http://portcredit.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1&pos=56

That is a pretty funny picture -- reefed main, no jib, and 4k!! I know, I know -- it blew itself out!!

Thanks, Pat, for confirming the technique. I picked up one more idea from your post -- don't head DDW -- cheat up when you can so you have somewhere to go!

I think in DE my white knucles were pulling on that tiller to get low, low, low! That meant my only 'escape hatch' was dumping the sheet. Adding steering to that equation gives me one more option.

I remember seeing and studying that photo of Wally after the Madcatter. (See, I do spy on you guys!!) I thought "Gee, he sure does have that boom out pretty far." But then, the pic may have been snapped right after he dumped a bunch of sheet. I know in DE I was sheeting that main on every chance I got so I would have something to release (and to reduce net sail area perpendicular to the wind).

You're right -- practice, practice, practice. Puget Sound doesn't get a whole lot of that. But we do have Gorge 3 hours away! I like the PUR idea. Laura Sullivan & I were talking about taking a trip down there and trying to hook up with Enrique. He probably doesn't have the time with the Tornado Olympic campaign, but we thoguht it would be worth a try (esp. since we have a few connections!).

That would be a great idea.Enrique has to be one of the fastes in the world on a hobie.Love to have the opportunity to get some lessons from him.

Basically, the boat has to be the the stalled configuration BEFORE the gust.
Racing, judge how SLOW you want to go compared to other boats, vs how much you want to stall BEFORE the gust. The more you stall the sails out BEFORE the gust, the better your chances. Obviously, to speed up you begin to let the sails out.

I and a couple others did this in the "round the island" race, Fort Walton to Pensacola and back, a few years ago and weather charts recorded the storm had winds up to 40. Yes, I had to yell at the crew for an extended period of time before he relented and pulled the traveler in. We had a good laugh afterwards once the storm over, on that issue.

I was this photo that was taken recently at the Hobie 16 World Championships in South Africa.
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/05/h16worlds/


You can see that there are quite a few boats with their mains reefed. None of them are leading the pack, but at least they are surviving.

I never really have any trouble capsizing except going down wind when I pitchpole. I've learned to make sure my crew knows to hang on when I start to bury a hull, I almost always turn out of it, is this poor form? I don't see much of an option if you are sheeted out already. Probably wouldn't be a good idea coming up on a mark in a pack of other boats. As far as heavy air goes, once I got used to sailing in heavier winds 10kts tend to get boring.

Hi guys:)
Glad to see there are so many ideas out there:) The reason I put the post up was becasue we were expecting really strong winds and I wanted to check all my bases.

That photo from worlds is interesting as I had just sailed the race before. The winds really got strong and I couldn't manage which was a pity. The winds actually only died the day after we got knocked out (go-figure)

The guys that did not reef came in top spots if I recall with the seventh spot (somewhere there) the first boat with a reef to come in. A boat got washed up on the rocks this race! And the day abonded after the race. What made the down wind sailing so interesting was the addition of the swell. One would be flying due to the wind and also catchin the swell to make one really watch the bows no real way to slow down once you've been shot forward by the swell as you can't turn off it as this would just increase the boat speed...

I think practice is the key..getting comfortable with the conditions

Clint

Well, actually, if you look at the 5th catamaran from the right, The one leading the pack, has his main reefed.

I would agree that there is no substitute for anything like "time on the water"! That saying is particularly true for heavy air sailing where boat handling is at a premium.

The purupose of this thread was to try to minimize the 'experimentation' stage which would be fraught with LOTS of capsizes! That way we could concentrate on the precision/fine tuning/practice stage of working on the mechanics.

It sounds to me like the way we were trying is the best -- sheet on hard, sheet off in the puffs when the bows dive to try to depower, steer low, and pray!!

And practice!

Hey, Peter how's it going? Can't wait to start sailing again. Are we going to see you for New Years. Tom and I will be thrill. Big hug... Marietta