Tiller connection upgrade???

Has anyone upgraded their H16 tiller connections to the "Hobie Miracle 20 style" advertized in the Hobie catalog?

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/32_33.pdf

Is this a good upgrade to do? It sure looks like it is. But, I would really like to hear from those with first hand experience of the pros and cons. I trailer my boat constantly and I have found that disassembly of the original setup is a big pain in the butt! This system looks like a great solution.


Dave

All the new boats come with them.

I have upgraded every boat I've ever owned with them (14, 16, 17).

They are the best, period.

All the new 16's have it. I upgraded my beach boat a few years back. It is well worth it. They work much better. Very easy to adjust rudder alignment and easy to take apart.
Just check your crossbar length so that you have adjustment once they are installed.

I agree. One of the best upgrades I made to my H16 and TheMightyHobie18. It just makes trailering easier, and rudder alignment adjusting a snap. Plus there is a major reduction in rudder system slop. It takes about a half hour to install.

Matt, Pat and Nick,

I`d say that clinches it for me! Thanks for the input, I am most appreciative.

Have any of you had any trouble with breakage or lost retainers? Should I order any spare parts or is that not really necessary.


Dave

I've never lost a retainer, since they're attached with shock cords. Some people will use rigging tape around the tiller / shock cord up close to the clip to prevent the clip from coming loose accidentally, but I've never needed to do that. Just make sure there's enough tension in the shock cords.

One thing I did on the retro-fit was to drill the hole in the underside of the tiller arm large enough to let the stopper knot on the shock cord to go inside the tiller. It's just a bit cleaner. (The factory installs the shock cords before they put the ends on, so there's no bottom hole. I like having the bottom hole in case I need to replace the shock cord.)

Thanks Matt,

I really like your idea regarding the shock cord. Even if the cords don`t break, I have found (in other applications) that they quickly loose their spring and can benefit from frequent replacment. Especially given their low cost.


Dave

I would also look at putting a plastic grommit in the upper hole where the shock cord comes out of the tiller. It's probably overkill, but I like to ease that sharp edge the shock cord rubs against. I also think it looks nicer.

With this system, when I trail the boat I leave the rudders on, remove the tiller cross bar and bungie the rudders to the hulls in the up and locked position. This holds them very securely and really speeds up your set process.

I was also thinking of making this upgrade just to take the hassle out of storing the rudders all in one assembly when removed for trailering. I'm thinking this is a must now.

As I said before, I woudn't even bother taking the rudders off for trailering. If you are worried about them, get a set of covers.

I have never had any problems on any of my 3 boats with leaving the rudders on. Just make sure they can't fall if you hit a bump.

Nick, you're right on. At least with the Hobie system this is a wives' tale. All you need to do is create some additional locking pressure to stabilize each rudder and keep any parts from moving, like a bungee to the rear pylon.

The paranoia around this reminds me of a story my Dad told me about post-war power boating. Up through the mid 50's eveyone removed their outboards for trailering and hauled them in the trunk, because the weight would surely crack your transom. Can you imagine two guys horseing a 4-cylinder o.b. motor into a '53 Buick? After building two boats (not varying from plans but just knowing what was there) my dad started trailering with the motor on the boat. Everyone was certain the motor and back half of the boat would end up in the road soon. He sold the boat 30 years later, still solid as a rock.

Trailered a gajillion miles in the eighties and never had a problem with gudgeons, castings or pins, MAKE SURE THEY'RE TIGHT.

Nick,

I still like the idea of taking the rudders off for trailering. But not for the reason you`re probably thinking. During my restoration, I removed all the rudder gudgeons (old style) and eventually re-bedded them. In doing so, I came to the opinion that the attachments are a possible weak point for leakage and wear. They are very strong in a tensile way, but I believe the bumps and vibrations of the road will accelerate wear and work away at the bedding and the underlying fiberglass structure. Fiberglass is great at managing the more constant loads experienced in the water, but I have much less confidence regarding its resistence to repetitive bumps and vibration.

I have found this in other boats too - especially bolted attachment points around areas of vibration. First they wiggle loose (a little bit), then water gets in...

Hey Sogncab,

I too have been taking the whole rudder assembly off in one big piece...what a royal pain in the **** ?? Not only that, the whole contraption has the tendency to morph into some sort of finger guillotine - swinging rudders, casts and arms - I have had enough of that! Gonna quit while I`m still ahead.

...I`m with you, these guys have convinced me that this is "a must" upgrade.


Dave


(edited in)

Flatlander,

I am currently helping my brother-in-law assess the degree of transom damage on his 1976 glass motorboat (17ft) with a 60 hp Johnson. Over the years, the normal wear and tear from both boating and trailering has deflected the transom just enough to create an undetected separation between the hull and superstructure. I noticed the unusual degree of flex while driving behind the trailered boat. It appears that water has been entering there slowly for many years... My opinion - the boat is scrap and not worth fixing.

It seems to me that wear and tear is (by definition) a cumulative thing, and, if something can (easily) be done to slow down the accumulation - then why not do it? I wouldn`t remove a big outboard, but H16 rudders are a different story. Especially (it seems) with the suggested upgrade.

Also, it is probably a good idea to separate the issue of a transom breaking off while trailering, from the issue of wear and tear. One is really a myth (with a healthy boat), and one is quite real.

- not an old "wives` tale", but, generally overstated - as you suggest. I do agree with your suggestion that eliminating all movement in the rudders while trailering would make a big difference.

Don't forget in the case of the Hobie Rudders and the powerboat transom, that the transom is dealing with vibrations while on the water and the load of the motor/rudders.

Since I am not a fan of powerboats, the more reasons they have to stay off the waer the better..

But for the Hobie rudders, you have cavitation (the humming), plowing through the waves, and any time you use the kick up feature of the rudders that will stress the transom. If you are worried about the screw loosening, you can use the nylok screws that are on athe new boats or you could put some locktite on them.

As for the transom flexing to cause damage, well they are very small and are supported around their entire periphery.

If it is the inserts (or is it a plate?) you are worried about then you could always install a backing plate inside the hull. You would have to use longer bolts and I would then use nuts as well. You will also need a port installed behind the tramp for access.

My point is if you don't mind taking the extra time to remove the rudders on every trip, then why not? But, if you are like me (lazy) and jus tdon't want to take that extra time then there is no problem with leaving them on.

As with everything involving boats, it's all personal preference.

All good points Nick. It`s just me being fussy again. I don`t mind taking the extra time for rudder removal, as long as I have the upgrade you guys recommend. That way it will be a pleasure AND I get to keep my fingers!


Dave

My theory is that the less that I have to tie down the better. I tie up the rudders really well so they don't move, but I don't trust a shock cord to hold it adequetly. Using a hitch pin in place of the cotter pin should make removal/installation easy enough for trailering with the upgraded parts. I'm more concerned with me failing, or something coming loose and not noticing a rudder went down until it was thoroughly F-ed up. You know, to drunk to sail, so lets load up the boat and drive home!?..... Just kidding.

All the shock cords do is hold the tillers down so the castings will stay locked. It takes very little force to keep the tillers from bouncing up.