HomeTrax wheel hubs??

I know there are many who have made their own cat-trax. I am in the middle of this project and have everything I need except....the darn wheel hubs - which I mistakenly thought would be easy to find. I already have some nice, large, lightweight turf tires with the standard four-bolt hub setup. But, I have no hubs. I don`t want to use the big, heavy steel hubs. Though easy to find, steel is overkill, rust-prone and too heavy. I was really hoping to find some plastic hubs with a plastic (delrin) bushing or bearing.

I`ve exhausted my options in looking for these to no avail. Can anyone help?


Dave

Just to let you know how the "production" wheels are done.

The hubs are nothing more than a rim that has a 4" deep through hole. This hole diameter is about .5" larger than the shaft/axel. Some delrin rods (1/4" dia) are stuck in between the shaft/axel and the ID of the hub to act as bearings. This hub is all Aluminum and so is the shaft/axel. Both are anodize so less prone to corrosion and very light.

Basically, the wheel itself is the hub. It's very simple. But, as you noted the trick is to find them somewhere.

If you are looking for trailer type stuff try Northern Tool this might be a good place to find some plastic hubs.

Good Luck

Now that I think about it, you could make your own hubs to mimmick the set up I described in my last post. All you need is a flange and a short piece of pipe to make that delrin bearing section. You would then attach the wheel to the flange. You may have to do some welding but it could work.

Let me know if what I said makes sense.

Nick,

Yes, your description makes good sense and is a design I had not thought about previously - thanks. As for the link - no luck there. I have probably explored 50 such links since August. Any idea where to get the delrin rods? I guess nylon would work well too.

I don`t want to get into welding, or any steel at all if I can help it. I guess could make the 4-bolt flange plates from aluminun and mount an aluminum axel shaft into that. However, there must be a ready-made assembly out there for this purpose. I just have to find it.

Another question Nick, are the delrin bearing rods packed in tightly or are there spacers of some sort?



Dave

For the delrin rods, go to McMaster-Carr. They are an industrial supplier. You can get the rods in many different diameters. Get the standard length (I think it's 36") and just cut them to the required length. Use Dlerin, it will last longer than Nylon. You may find what you are looking for in here.

You can also try MSC

I hope this helps,

Thanks Nick,

I edited in another question re: the delrin rods but you were posting simultaneously and missed it.

any after-thoughts?

Dave

They are not tightly packed in, but there are no spacers either. When you pack them as close as you can, there is about a half of a diameter space between two of them.

So, if you have 10 rods for bearings, and you try to jam an 11th one it, the space availabel to do that is only half of what you need.

To make this work, you will need to calculate how many 1/4" or even 3/8" dimeter rods can surround your axel. Just remember to leave an extra .5 diameter so they can roll well.

I assembled mine back in June, so I am going from memory on the sizes.

Nick, sorry for another question, but is there some sort of sealer or gasket on each end to keep dirt out?

Dave

Not really. Now that you mention it, the bearings are held in place by a delrin washer that contacts the hub and is backed by a regular SS washer. These are then backed by a cotter pin. This "stack" goes on both sides of the wheels.

The nice part aboutthe Delrin, is it can take a beating from the dirt and still work well.

WOW! You all must be reading my mind. I want to do the same thing. Where did your big wheels come from? Anyone have a design for doing this? I tried googling hometrax and got nowhere. I was figuring on taking big PVC drain pipes in 10' lengths and just using them as rollers. BUT it did not seem really very likely to be successful. I LOVE the idea of making my own wheelset. But I am going to need more design ideas than what I have now! THANKS!

Richard

Hello,
I built a home-made set of beach wheels and used a set of rear lawn mower tires. For the hubs, I used aluminum parts from a outdoor handrail supplier. I took two flanges and epoxied 3" PVC and bolted them together. I then made a larger flange out of outdoor plywood which is coated with epoxy and painted. The lug bolts have washers on the back which locks the wooden flange to the aluminum hub. I used a plastic caulking gun tube as the bearing between the hub and the shaft. It's worked great for three years now. I realize that it'll be difficult to come up with the same parts, but maybe you can find something to substitute. Here are some photos.
I can take my wheels apart for easier storage on the trailer.

WOW!

That looks great! In our town we have the old-fashioned New England dump, and there are frequently all kinds of cool slightly used items. For example, you can pick up a working computer or TV, a really awesome bike, etc. at the cost of lifting it out of the place where it is stored.

I will start hunting for some of the parts, and probably purchase the others from catsailor. I think the wheels might be the one part that is hardest to locate. But the world opens up when you can use a lawn mower wheel set.

THANKS JACK!!!

I was looking at these wheel/tire combos, but they were just too expensive in the quantities (2) I wanted to buy. That's why I just broke down and bought a pair of "production" trax. When figuring in my time and the material cost, it was way cheaper to just buy them.

http://www.roleezwheels.com/

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2426

For the "Home Trax" (I like that name) with golf cart wheels and tires.

The common golf wheel is the right diameter for a piece of 2 1/2" thin wall electrical conduit, attached to the wheels with a 2 1/2" conduit connector. On the outside of wheels fabricate a flat plate or use a 3 1/2" to 2 1/2" reducing washer for a nice flat surface for the connector locknut. Set the wheel/tire with connectors between the hulls to gauge length of cut 2 1/2" conduit (measure twice, cut once). Slide a 2" schedule 40 PVC conduit inside the 2 1/2" conduit. Pin through the PVC on both ends with bolt, or other method, to hold in place. Here's a rolling chassis ready for cradles clamped to the PVC. We've seen used golfcart wheels and tires from $8 each with rusty wheels and 50% tread. The kid's old outdoor toys seems to be the "hot" source of cradle material.

Richard,

I purchased 18 inch X 10 inch turf tires for about 20 bucks each at a place called Princess Automotive.


Jack,

Thanks for chiming in, I read your post a while back and actually saved the picture. I like your solution a lot, especially for it`s simplicity. The info you have provided is VERY much appreciated. A couple of questions I have are: does your bushing/bearing design roll freely enough to keep you happy? Do you lube it? Have any dirt problems? Also, which part of the hub bolts to the rim of the wheel - the wood or the steel flange. My tire/wheels are just a standard 4-bolt attachment and I am not sure from the photos what rims you have.

Double thanks on the railing supplier idea. Finding the flanges has been tricky.


Dave

Hello,
I just found this forum last week, posted a question, and got an answer pronto. So I think I can return the favor here and offer you guys this idea.
I have built some pier fishing carts out of pvc pipe. Being on the gulf coast we want everything to be non-steel.
Anyway, I found a source for lawn mower turf tires 13 x 5.00-6 on orange plastic wheels. Not brittle shiney plastic but the dull tuff plastic. They have 3/4" bore flange plastic bushings. Price is good at $12 from Burdens Surplus Center

Now for bigger wheels for soft sand here is another alternative to the rollezee tires. ATV front sand tires on aluminum wheels. You can buy brand new pair on alum. wheels for $150 delivered via ebay. They are bald except for the center rib. They make smooth ones too but the are more rare.
You can always find 40+ pairs of new and used ones in ebay for less.
They are 22" x 8" on 10"dia. rims. Do an ebay search on "sand tire*" or "dune tire*". If you want even more flotation you could get a pair of used rear paddle tires and cut the paddles off to make them smooth.

Dave,
I haven't had any trouble with the bearing surface at all. I figured that since I had almost no money in the caulking gun tube bearing (slit to fit the diameter), I could easily replace them. However, I'm still on the first set. The wheel rims bolt through the holes that you see in the wood flange. I needed to add that flange, since the bolt pattern for the wheels was larger than the aluminum hub I built, plus, it kept everything centered up nicely.
Jack

Jeeperman,
Thanks for the wheel ideas. But what is a "paddle wheel"?

Jack,

That`s great. Thanks a lot. I would not have thought of either the railing supplier or the caulking tube bushing without your suggestion. When I was originally thinking of a bushing, and looking at various materials (pvc pipes...) I always ran into the problem of finding the perfect diameter bushing - which as you know, is no small problem. The devil is in the details. Your fix solves this nicely.


Dave

Sorry. I meant, what is a paddle tire?

It is generally a good idea to avoid lubrication in beach wheel bearings. It will attaract sand and wear down the bearing surface quicker. Plus, it would be just one more thing to have to maintain.

These are paddle tires. They are a "get stuck quik or go" tire for dune running.

Check with ATV wheel suppliers. The early Honda ATC three wheelers used a completely rubber rear tire. No wheel. The tire had a steel tube that was vulcianized to the tire. If you've ever seen a original set of Cat Trax you'll know what I'm talking about. All Cat Trax did was find the right size alum. axle,add the right dia. delrin bearings, washers on the ends to hold the delrin in place.

The problem with this system was the steel tube, add salt water and.....

As
it turned out Honda's idea wasn't that good and they stopped using that tire. I don't know who was making that tire but they stopped making it cause there was no demand for it. However people that had these bikes needed some way to put tires on their bikes so someone came out with the wheel you see on the new style Cat Trax.

So look at atv suppliers. You might even check with a Honda dealer. If it's not a Honda part you might learn where they would order it from.

Lots of advice on wheels and such here, but has anyone found a source for plastic (4-bolt) hubs to attach to the wheel/rims? This would be an alternative to making them from scratch. Also, such a product removes the difficulty (and high costs) of buying specialized wheels - making almost any low-cost turf tire suitable for Hometrax.

Dave

I do have a full machine shop at my disposal. What do people think these plastic hubs are worth? I could be persuaded to manufacture these if I can cover my costs.

Ahh...the good old 55 gallon detergent drum

Sorry for hijacking the hub thread Dave.

Taht looks great! how is it in the really soft sand? Does the rigidity of the drum impede your progress on soft sand or with that much surface area, are able to ride above the sand? I have your standard off the shelf Cat Trax which I keep the air fairly low, expanding the track surface area, which assists me in the soft. Just wondering?

Taht looks great! how is it in the really soft sand? Does the rigidity of the drum impede your progress on soft sand or with that much surface area, are able to ride above the sand? I have your standard off the shelf Cat Trax which I keep the air fairly low, expanding the track surface area, which assists me in the soft. Just wondering?

Taht looks great! how is it in the really soft sand? Does the rigidity of the drum impede your progress on soft sand or with that much surface area, are able to ride above the sand? I have your standard off the shelf Cat Trax which I keep the air fairly low, expanding the track surface area, which assists me in the soft. Just wondering?

CaptJulian, Sand is not a commodity in these parts, so we have little to no experience with it, which I know is bugging the hell out of all the beach launchers.

Captain Dave, One last shot and then I'm done. I say, "Hubs?...we don't need no stinking Hubs!" Not unless your planning on speeds in excess of 20 mph. How about using schedule 80 PVC between the wheels and PVC connectors (2 1/2" electrical size will fit your wheels) and a length of galvanized conduit inside, pinned in place with S/S bolts. With a little paint or inhibitor here and there will be relatively rust free.

I think I know why Capt Dave wants to use the hubs. He would like to be able to use wheels that are made for hubs. Instead of hubs maybe we should call them adaptors? Am I getting your messge Dave?

Is Captain Julian in Massachusettes? If so, it's about time you got on this forum

You`ve got it now Nick. But, hubs are hubs. Rims and wheels are a separate deal. The proper name for what I need is "hub" - not to be confused with a rim or a wheel. Any search for a "hub" will illustrate what I need - only I want it in plastic. Steel hubs are heavy, made of metal and have metal bearings. Even a cheap metal hub is made to support many, many hundreds of pounds more than a set of catrax requires - not to mention the corrosion factor.




Flatlander,

You are correct about the hubs regarding the speed issue. However, I already have some nice wheels (which I want to use) and what I need is a 4-bolt hub to attach my wheels (with 4-bolt rims) to an appropriate axle. I do not believe your design will allow a 4-bolt rim to be secured to an axle. Plus, it all sounds a little heavier than necessary. I will be using aluminum for my axle.




Dave

Dave,

I already have a simple plastic hub design that will be easy to install on an aluminum hollow shaft or pipe. If you are interested send me a PM and maybe we can work something out. I would need some dimentions but it could be done fairly easily.

Here is another option for all of you Do It Yourselfers.
web page

And here's another homemade idea.

OK, so the previous photo is really small. Let's try this one.

The nice thing about the wheel I'm talking about is, it is the wheel and the hub complete with bearing surface. Alloy, no rust.

This article will explain how to make the wheels. VERY simple, don't need fancy hubs. They work great, just don't drill the extra holes. Use some silicone around washers and connectors. If you have questions call me.


http://www.geocities.com/mec_coleman/tip13.htm

Doug Snell
281-326-2702
dsnell4@houston.rr.com

I contacted the owner of the funky beach wheel design in the photos I posted earlier and he was happy to share his ideas with us.

1. Holes are drilled at either end of the drum for the pole.

2. Cut circular pieces of the plywood with holes in them as well. This is for the added support on the drum.

3. Slip the pole through the drum and center it.

4. Take a 4" long piece of PVC pipe or fitting and slip it over the pole. Slide it down the pole till it has a 1/4" gap between the PVC and the drum. Screw the PVC to the pole with four screws.

5. Repeat the last step for the other side.

6. Now set your Hobie on the pole and drill two holes - one at each pole end outside of where the hobie is sitting. This is for the rope that will be attached and then looped over the hulls and tied back to the bar, securing the Hobie to the dolly.

7. Lift the hobie and off it will go. For added weight on the soft sand add water to the barrel. Not a lot but enough that the barrel will roll instead of sliding and becoming a plow.

Hobiegary or Doug Snell,

I have an older cat trax with the one piece hubless Firestone tire/wheel that is no longer manufactured. The 25 year old tires are split. I'm thinking of using my 2" axle bar and your syrup barrel wheels (brother-in-law works for Coca Cola). The lids or ends of these barrels must be really thick or it would appear that the rolling stress would crack them around the axle penetrations. Your plastic washer seems more like a bearing surface for the couplers. Are these barrels really thick or did you reinforce them somehow?

Well...after all the hullaballoo regarding how I was going to scratch build hubs so as to use some new turf tires that I already have, I broke down and bought two of these wheels (see link and/or attachment) for about $80 total. They just arrived and I am quite impressed - especially for the money. They are 12 pounds each with a huge 2 foot diameter and rated for 600 lbs each. With these wheels, I can now simply go with a 2 inch aluminum axle and some lock collars or cut some delrin bushings for better roll and use a narrower axle.

In either event, this was the simplest, neatest way for me to come up with a good set of Hometrax for about $100 total.

Now (unfortunately) I have a few nice (brand new) turf tires/rims that I`ll have to find another purpose for...oh well.


Dave

http://www.premiermaterials.com/Premiermaterials/dock_wheels.htm

Captain_Dave,

I've been reviewing this discussion on the Home Trax with some interest and I was wondering if you ever finished your Home Trax project. If so, could you please give an update? By the way, nice job on the H16 restoration. That is one beautiful boat.

Bulldawg

BullDawg,

I am sorry to say that due to a death in my immediate family I have put all projects on hold.

Perhaps in a few months I will finish this project (and a few others). As it stands now, I am not far from completion. When I finish, I will be happy to post details and photos.

Thanks for the interest,


Dave

My condolences, Dave.

Dear Mary,

Thank you,

Dave

Captain_Dave,
I too, want to express my condolences to you and your family on your loss.

Sincerely,
Bulldawg

Here is what I came up for a hub design using a machineable plastic. I can't think of the name of though. GMHW something like that.

That's exactly how Cat Trax makes thier wheel bearings. The just use the axel and the wheel as the races. The plastic is Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) Polyethylene. The stuff is great for applications like this. This is the same material they use too.

Guys/Gals:

Danny did a REAL good job of taking the ideas I found and taking it to the next level! $125 and NICE!!
http://dgaleana2.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=tips&action=display&thread=1143785090

Way to go Danny.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Mystere 4.3
www.tcdyc.com

Those look great! Anyone have any working experience with those wheels? How do they do in soft sand? How durable?

Matt:

Go on the site. Register and ask Danny. He is giving them a try with his 14 and Randy's Getaway.

Doug

I too have been working on a similar design with those exact wheels which I posted earlier in this thread. However, I found out this past weekend that the materials and axle diameters (at least the 1.5 inch) mentioned in the above link allow way too much flex to be useful for the purpase of moving catamarans. It looks good, but the flex is a problem. I believe I already have a low cost solution and will post back within the next few weeks with photos.

Also, I found that simple ABS piping is not good as a bearing or bushing. It doesn`t glide very well - even worse when it warms up. I found that nylon or similar poly material glides much better.


Dave

Has anyone seen these ?

Those are half the price of what I found.

As for bearing material, use UHMW. It is very "slick" and very durable.

Matt,

Nice find on those wheels. I searched high and low for a suitable and affordable air-filled wheel. Clearly you had more success than I in sourcing the part. And I searched a lot!

One question though. What is the hub/rim configuration of that wheel? This entire thread was started in order to solve the "hub" issue - which ,as it turns out, is no minor problem unless one wants to use the standard metal trailer hub assemblies (4 or 5 bolt configuration, heavy and rust prone). This is why I went with the plastic wheels with the 2 inch diameter bore as It is much easier to convert over to our purposes while avoiding metal parts.

After checking that link again I cannot seem to find any info on the hub/rim for that tire. I get the impression the price is for the tire only and a rim would be a separate purchase of the standard ATV setup/configuration ie. 4-bolt hub. Its not too clear from looking at the link.




Dave

Good question on the hubs. I emailed the supplier this morning and will report my findings. The photo shows a hub but I have a feeling that they are just selling the tire. I think the standard ATV wheel has a 4 bolt pattern. I might end up machining a hub out of UHMW. I need some more lathe and mill experience anyways.

I figured the rim would cost extra. That makes the combo a little more spendy. Still a lot cheaper than buying the wheels from someone like roleez. Of course the roleez wheels would be a lot closer to being functional with the hub and bearings already done.

Dave:

I used 1 1/2 inch pipe from a electrical supply place. EMT I think, but not sure of the exact name. I haul my 17 with no problem. Send Danny a PM he is trying them on a 14 and a Getaway. That should be a good test.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Mystere 4.3
www.tcdyc.com

Hi all,

As promised, I will be posting pics of my completed Hometrax. I`ve already been asked to build a set for someone else, so I may be getting busy for a while.

Since this thread is getting so long, I will make a new post - keyword " HomeTrax"

cheers,

Dave
Dave