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Downhaul

Posted By: Dan05

Downhaul - 05/30/14 08:15 AM

Hi All

Would be interested to see what downhaul systems and ratio people are using. A couple of components of mine are getting near the end of their life, so I'm considering upgrading and want to see if i should make any changes to my setup.

Cheers
Dan
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Downhaul - 05/30/14 09:01 AM

Hi Dan,

If you are using a radial cut mylar sail, 8 to 1 or more is generaly considered to be essential. Realy depends on efficency of the pulleys as to if it's enough.

6 to 1 is generaly enough for a Dacron sail.
Posted By: Matt_Stone

Re: Downhaul - 05/30/14 11:05 PM

i use a 6:1 but changing to 8:1 very soon
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Downhaul - 05/31/14 10:02 AM

Come to think of it, I probably should have said the weight on the boat makes a difference also. confused

Generaly the lighter you are the quicker you need to de power and the more you need to pull on to get the sail flat. Heavier crew weight will bend the mast due to increased righting moment which flattens the sail without downhaul. whistle

So sloops and heavweight crews on cat rigs can probably get away with less than 8 to 1 on a radial cut Mylar sail, but not the light weights, be interesting to see if Matt does better in the heavy winds once he goes 8 to 1. sleep
Posted By: Dazz

Re: Downhaul - 05/31/14 11:30 PM

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=112248&page=4

i set the 8:1 version on the maricat. worked very well, low friction and was cheap as chips.
Posted By: Matthew Dawson

Re: Downhaul - 10/12/15 10:06 AM

Has anyone tried an 'under tramp' system (like the Viper) on a Mosquito?

Would it work? Are Mosquito tramps closer to the water than Vipers?

I am wondering about whether to try an under tramp cascaded system on my Cobra. My 15 yo daughter is my crew and she has trouble pulling on an 8:1 ...

A cascading system like the one in the above link (Typhoon - internal in the mast) is pretty cheap to set up and is 12:1

Thoughts?
Posted By: Sixth Element

Re: Downhaul - 10/12/15 08:57 PM

HI Matthew
no one I know of has does an under tramp set up on a Mossie.

The mossie tramp and I would presume cobra tramps are a lot closer to the water than Vipers a lot less free board with the mossie.

We run 12:1 internal on the mossie so my crew can still pull it on when it gets windy.
Posted By: Matthew Dawson

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 08:51 AM

Thanks SE. Yes I am wondering about how low they are in the water.
Posted By: Matt_Stone

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 09:39 AM

I have tried it under the tramp. Pain in the butt. If you have elastic on the end its hard to grab it in a hurry and release it as the elastic is pulling against you. Also another problem that the elastic pulls the cunno on if tight on one side.

So no i don't have it under the tramp. I have an external 8:1.

Posted By: Matthew Dawson

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 10:12 AM

Good to hear someone has tried it. Thanks for sharing Matt.
Posted By: Matthew Dawson

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Sixth Element


We run 12:1 internal on the mossie so my crew can still pull it on when it gets windy.


Can you share some details of your internal system? Layout of blocks? Mast attachment? Length of internal system? Photos would be great too if you have any. I don't think many Mossies or Cobras have internal systems so it would be good to learn more.
Posted By: Pirate

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 11:19 AM

I have an external 8:1 setup and it uses 20m double blocks (1 either side of the boom), a 30mm single check block at the Mast base and 2 20mm check blocks attatched to the mast's sides and then down through a swivel cleat...

[Linked Image]

My question is a simple one......

Are the 20mm blocks good enough ?
Been thinking of going to 30mm blocks all round and if I can get one a larger swivelling cleat.... main reason for this is the sheave housing in the cleat is almost failing under heavy load, I'm not 100% game to really heave it down as far as I know it should go incase it does let go

so what block sizes are most running ???

Kingy
Posted By: Matt_Stone

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 11:50 AM

Hi All

i use and many others in the mossie fleet use 20 series blocks, Use Hi load blocks if possible.

I use the exact same as kingy exempt the one in the middle on the mast is 20 series. The cleats work fine. If not happy with cleats use different brand such as harken, Spin lock, riley, where some have metal s/s cleats and different designs.

I have been been using the ronstan RF5 for years using 8:1 in 30 knots.
If crew can't pull on rope make a handle at the end of the rope with a rubber tube with the rope through the tube

Matt
Posted By: Matt_Stone

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 11:51 AM

you guys need to come to the states and nationals to see the latest gismos.

Posted By: Matt_Stone

Re: Downhaul - 10/13/15 12:05 PM

just thinking, to go to 12:1 cunno theres something wrong with the set up of the rig. The cunno should be making the mast bend forward to stretch the sail. this won't happen with inline spreaders.
I use raked back spreaders 15mm forward of the mast track and with "27" on the loose gauge has already "prebend" in gthe mast. The sail has a luff curve and when gets windy the you need to stretch the curve out with cunno and outhaul.
To explain it well come to the states or nationals or any event where there is a mob of us and i will show you how stuff works, and the latest gismos as i have ready made parts for mossie cobra and arrow.

I nearly go to every event in vic and exploring interstate (wildcat regatta, Great lakes NSW)
I just gave Brett and dave from QLD some lessons on rig set up.

There is also a tuning guide on the Mossie website.

Matt
Posted By: Sixth Element

Re: Downhaul - 10/14/15 02:49 AM

HI Matthew,

the internal system we use is basically the A class internal system. send me an email if you want the drawings we used (pjd001@hotmail.com). it all fits but its pretty tight inside the mast. Ill try and remember to take some photos of my mast on weekend when I see my boat (its 250km away)

nothing wrong with my rig set up Matt Stone! downhaul does its job just 12:1 makes its shitload easier for Kirst in 20plus.

I do agree with Matt though best way to see what is working on boat is to get the class events and speak with everyone.
Posted By: Matthew Dawson

Re: Downhaul - 10/14/15 08:45 AM

Thanks for all the responses. Thanks for the photo Kingy.

Just one thing ... just because I am asking questions it doesn't mean I don't sail at regattas. I don't sail at my club regularly because it's hard with 5 teenage kids at home and the club (Parkdale) is 90 minutes from home. I have joined a club closer to home (Torquay) this year so I can sail more.

I have sailed in every Cobra national titles since 2008/2009 in VIC, SA, NSW and QLD. I have also sailed in all but one state titles in the same period.

I have introduced all of my five children to sailing. One daughter has competed in all those national titles with me and is the current state champ as crew for someone else (while I was encouraging another daughter to sail with me). Another daughter has crewed for a friend from SA for the past two Nat and state champs. Both girls sailed Vipers at the Goodall training program in Geelong in September. I am rebuilding an Arafura Cadet to encourage the two boys to join the fun.

Typically I don't have as much time as I would like to have to catch up with other sailors on the beach. That's why I ask questions on this forum. This is what works for me ... I understand that it doesn't work for everyone.

Matt you are really helpful but just saying 'come down and I will show you' doesn't work for me. Don't get me wrong - I really appreciate (and regularly review) your advice.

I would love to come and sail at Somers again sometime (where I sailed every weekend as a teenager in the 1980's on an Elwood Jnr and the first Somers Tornado).

I last said g'day to you at a Torquay Australia Day regatta a few years ago, but with the family in tow there was not time to have a good chat.

Perhaps I will see some of you at the VIC cat champs in November.

smile


Posted By: Rebel without a Clew

Re: Downhaul - 10/19/15 11:19 AM

Right......I only have 6 to 1 downhaul.....I just pull it till my nose bleeds!..obviously I need more.
Roy
Rebel Without a Clew.
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