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The media IS the Democraptic party!

Posted By: Todd_Sails

The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/24/16 11:25 PM

Did you hear the news today?

Of course not- the mainstream media IS the democraptic party, and wont publish/discuss it.

The WSJ DID however.

** Remember when the FBI director went on Natl TV, and made the case like he WAS going to prosecute Billary, and then near the very of the speech- said yea, it was wrong, it was criminal, but we're not prosecuting?

Well guess what? Read the WSJ article!
He was BOUGHT OFF - BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ironhead, et. al.- I"m voting for the lesser of two evils (Trump is not evil), and the choice is clear to me, how could it not be to anyone else? And if it's not, the yare NOT using pure logic.

This isn't hearsay, these are facts. So many of them- facts- on how corrupt and criminal The Billary machine is. Pull your heads out, pull your heads out
That anyone other than the VERY corrupt, or the VERY uninformed, would vote for this excuse for a shemale.

It's about AMERICA!!

And BTW- I do currently vote for democraps with go fiscal values, who are not corrupt.
Case in point- our current County Sheriff, and the current current County executive, both Democraps, and I"ve voted for them both in two elections
Posted By: northsea junkie

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/25/16 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
I"m voting for the lesser of two evils (Trump is not evil), and the choice is clear to me, how could it not be to anyone else? And if it's not, the yare NOT using pure logic.
It's about AMERICA!!



Well, use your logic Todd.

Trump is a pathalogical psychopath with a very simple body-language.
Watch his eyes shutting tight when he is obviously lying.

Here on the other side of the ocean it is evident to all of us!


Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/25/16 12:02 PM

On other forums too, I hear this kind of crap from people who are not in the USA, and won't even be voting. Nice to see your media is also libtard too.
OH wait, you can still vote democratic if you're not legal to do so, millions of others are!
Hillary is a criminal, thought bought off the FBI director- and you're more worried about Trump squinting?
I used to like you
Posted By: tomthouse

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/25/16 02:32 PM

I'm concerned not only about how is it, that out of all the possibilities in the US, these are the two choices we now have. The problems include the presidency we are voting for. It also includes the congress, and the electorate that is uninformed or keeps voting them in, not voting at all or voting for "free stuff" that always has a price somewhere. Our national debt is out of control, our money has only to ďgood faith of the USĒ to back it. The future should be at least as interesting as the past. I hope we can learn from history and make better choices personally, locally and nationally. If not we are doomed to go down the same path and hope in vain for a different result. Europe, the Middle East, China is changing, the world is changing and we are repeating problems that are well documented in history. Hang on, the best and worst is still ahead.
Posted By: northsea junkie

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/25/16 02:39 PM

I know you used to like me. Thank you.

I like you too and still do. But that's exactly the reason to speek out freely about my observations.
I know you are a hard-boiled Republican, like many other members on this board. And that's completely fine with me.

Never fight over politics and religion with people you like, is a wise adagium. But don't be silent!

My critics concerns the man and not the party which he stands for.
And yes, because America belongs to the powerfull states of the world, I have fears when you choose a lunatic as president.

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/25/16 02:57 PM

Perhaps I misread your post (as is typical for me)?

Because someone doesn't drink the same kool-aide as you do, they are no longer your friend? Seems a little harsh....

I drink plenty of kool-aide myself, but I'd rather debate a particular idea rather than a person... Maybe I'm senile, but I find it hard to believe that someone who doesn't share my particular ideology will NEVER have a good idea, be able to contribute to society, or will forever be designated as sub-human...

Regardless of your particular position, I am glad that you are exercising your right to vote. In this election I believe every vote is needed. Not just for the top of the ticket. I think the down-ballot votes are possibly even more important.

I am supervising a polling location, and I see the layers of security to protect votes. At least in my state, it would appear that while voting irregularities may indeed occur, it would take a monumental effort to "rig" the vote. Our state does use paper ballots as a backup to the electronic vote(s) and require photo/signature ID. In addition, each political party will have designated monitors at each polling location who can contest voters/ballots. Having this sort of coordinated activity to disrupt an entire state's vote go undetected seems very unlikely.

I cannot speak for other states and how they operate their voting system. Most of this was the result of the train-wreck that was the Gore/Bush election.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/25/16 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by tomthouse
Our national debt is out of control, our money has only to ďgood faith of the USĒ to back it.


That leads me to the question "are any nations/countries operating at a surplus?"

I would suspect perhaps China, but those figures can be suspect.

Iceland?

Interesting publication on "public debt by country"

Public Debt as % of GDP

Suprising that the countries with lowest ratio (debt to GDP) are places I don't really want to live:

Iran
Algeria
Botswana
Estonia

The worst debt ratios look like:

Italy
Belgium
Cyprus
Greece (no suprise here)
Grenada (dang, cause that's a cool place to visit)
Japan (oops)
Portugal



makes one wonder..... The 'developed' nations have the highest debt/GDP ratios... So our lifestyle has put us way in the hole... Let's go back to huts!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/26/16 09:12 PM

I want to thank Todd, Chumlee, the long lost Sparky, Carl, K-Lube, femalegenitalia-Ďní-Paste Schwartz and all the rest of you RINO/teabagger/alt-right denizens of the fever swamp you claim is conservative politics for your hard work that made it possible to elect the first woman president of the United States.

I do realize the election is a few days off but the media, that is totally controlled by the ďdemocrapsĒ, have taken control of every voting place in every church, basement and garage in America to insure a landslide that goes well beyond anything seen in modern history. Unless you count all of Putinís elections of course. The only thing in doubt is how far the Senate will go Dem. We may see a new SCOTUS justice before the end of the year.

Your good works have metastasized into Trump, a person who has garnered descriptive words like racist, pathological liar, con artist, misogynist, birther, raging xenophobe and sexual predator. And letís not forget his calls to incite political violence, the straight-up dictator move of threatening to arrest his opponents and blocking minorities from voting. Then thereís his debunked theories on international banks plotting the destruction of U.S. sovereignty, a veiled anti-Semitic attack and his claim Ted Cruzís father conspired with Lee Harvey Oswald. Thereís more but you certainly get the idea.

Iím sure many of you were hoping for a different candidate but you got what you deserved because there wasn't one capable or inspiring person in the infamous "Clown Car" lineup. All 16 of the non-Trump entrants were dunces, religious zealots, wimps or tyrants, all equally out of touch with voters. Scott Walker was a lipless sadist who in centuries past would have worn a leather jerkin and thrown dogs off the castle walls for recreation. Marco Rubio was the young rake with debts. Jeb Bush was the last offering in a fast-diminishing hereditary line. Ted Cruz was the Zodiac Killer. And so on.

By the time the other 16 candidates finished their mass-suicide-squad routine, a tail-chasing, sewer-mouthed septuagenarian New Yorker was accepting the nomination of the Family Values Party.

So, great work guys. Youíve made the USA the laughingstock of the rest of the free world. Keep chanting the new GOP mantra, "Grab them by the pussy." Itís gotten you where you are today.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 01:26 AM

Are you worried about voter fraud Todd? Every right thinking member of the RINO/teabagger/alt-right fringe is. What will you do Todd? What will you do?

It's not to late to take action. According to the Little Trump, Pennsylvania is Ground Zero for voter fraud. Jump into your rollin' coal humungo pick-em-up truck and head east to get those lawbreakers under control. But, before you leave you need credentials so you're all legal-like.

Go to VoteProtectors.org to get your own personalized badge. It'll make you look like a big deal and scare off the dead people still trying to vote. I took the liberty to get yours printed in advance.

You're welcome.

[Linked Image]









Posted By: Jeff Peterson

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 04:55 AM

Do you think that Donald Trump respects any other opinions, other than his own?

(You may get to keep your guns, but only if you are willing to defend HIS opinions.)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 03:03 PM

What are you afraid of today Todd?

[Linked Image]

Did you know there are the 117 suicides in the U.S. each day (in comparison with 43 murders), 129 deaths from accidental drug overdoses, 96 people dying a day in automobile accidents (27 of whom aren't wearing seat belts, not to mention the unspecified amount driving distracted)? Add the 1,315 deaths each day due to smoking, the 890 related to obesity, and all the other preventable deaths from strokes, heart attacks and liver disease, and the message is clear: The biggest thing you have to fear is not a terrorist or a shooter or a deadly home invasion. You are the biggest threat to your own safety.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 03:24 PM

One more example of how we control the media Todd.

In its 144-year history, The Yale Record has never endorsed a Democratic candidate for president. In fact, we have never endorsed any candidate for president. This is, in part, due to our strong commitment to being a tax-exempt 501(c)3 organization, which mandates that we are ďabsolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.Ē

This yearís presidential election is highly unusual, but ultimately no different: The Yale Record believes both candidates to be equally un-endorsable, due to our faithful compliance with the tax code.

In particular, we do not endorse Hillary Clintonís exemplary leadership during her 30 years in the public eye. We do not support her impressive commitment to serving and improving this countryóa commitment to which she has dedicated her entire professional career. Because of unambiguous tax law, we do not encourage you to support the most qualified presidential candidate in modern American history, nor do we encourage all citizens to shatter the glass ceiling once and for all by electing Secretary Clinton on November 8.


Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 03:36 PM

Do you let your wife vote Todd? If so you'd better have "the talk" with her before she goes wild in the voting booth.

[size:14pt][b]Red-state women may be defying their Trump-loving husba[/size]nds[/b]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 04:14 PM

I'm trying to understand you Todd. This may help. Or not.

The American Psychological Association says that 52 percent of American adults are coping with high levels of stress brought on by the election, according to national Harris Poll survey data released last week. Therapists around the country said in interviews that patients are coming to appointments citing their fears, anger and anxiety about the election. (Have you made your appointment Todd?)

To help alleviate this stress, Harvard University Business School professor Deepak Malhotra has outlined how we can move forward as a country. In an article entitled ďHow to Build an Exit Ramp for Trump Supporters,Ē Malhotra puts forth a series of suggestions for how to bring Trumpís supporters back into the political mainstream. These suggestions include:

Donít force them to defend their beliefs.
Provide information, and then give them time.
Donít fight bias with bias.
Donít force them to choose between their idea and yours.
Help them save face.
Give them the cover they need.
Let them in.


Malhotra concludes with some levelheaded, patient admonitions:

ďSome of the above advice requires that we temper our natural inclinations for how to behave when someone is yelling and screaming or pushing and shoving. It is well worth building this discipline. Of course, not everyone is ready to change their mind. Equally, not all minds can (or need) to be changed. But you will have a much greater likelihood of navigating the path to change if you invest in building an exit ramp. The election of 2016 is as important a time as any to do it.Ē
Posted By: samc99us

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
What are you afraid of today Todd?

[Linked Image]

Did you know there are the 117 suicides in the U.S. each day (in comparison with 43 murders), 129 deaths from accidental drug overdoses, 96 people dying a day in automobile accidents (27 of whom aren't wearing seat belts, not to mention the unspecified amount driving distracted)? Add the 1,315 deaths each day due to smoking, the 890 related to obesity, and all the other preventable deaths from strokes, heart attacks and liver disease, and the message is clear: The biggest thing you have to fear is not a terrorist or a shooter or a deadly home invasion. You are the biggest threat to your own safety.


Where in the United States Constitution does it state the government is responsible for protecting its citizens from itself??? Oh wait, your from California and a liberal to boot (what a surprise), maybe the copy of the U.S Constitution didn't make it to you in the same format I received my copy!?!?! Pretty likely, considering California is a damn long way from Washington DC, even further in 1850...explains quite a lot actually.

The real question is, how many of you have read the Federalist Papers, or any original documents from the [i]men[i] who founded this country?? They devised the electoral congress specifically to avoid the type of election we are about to have!!! Dumbass Americans who take their cues directly from the media and reality TV should not be allowed to vote!!! Specifically, our delegates are supposed to be smart enough to avoid electing bad presidents...problem is they're paid off too, just like the FBI deputies assigned to Clintons case..

And before you ask, I actually agree with the statements regarding the panel of 16 the GOP found and led to the down selection of Donald Trump as republican nominee. At the same time I cannot vote for a "woman" that is probably, more than likely, the most corrupt person in American politics. Nor can I vote for someone that cheats on her husband and leaves the mister behind to die in the shithole known as Libya. Lets not even talk about leaking classified documents to non-cleared civilians. Your butt would be sitting 5 stories underground sipping water through a cotton bag every 30 seconds if you did the same. So yes, I will be taking my vote third party, in the hopes that they can gain some funding for the next cycle and we can have a slightly less monetarily influenced system of government.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 06:51 PM

what I find strangely ironic (if the democratic party secures victory) is that the republican party drew the congressional districts in 2010 to heavily favor their party. I think it still favors republicans almost 2:1 as they are drawn now.

Take a look at your district map(s) and see how crazy the lines are. Not sure how that is meant to ensure the "one man one vote" mantra.


Not that I'm angry at any political party (they're both doing themselves in), but it would seem the real focus should be on the process itself. Rigged? Perhaps... but in this case by the last people who drew the district lines... which in this case was the party in power at the last census (Republican)...

Odd, ain't it?
Posted By: samc99us

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/27/16 08:48 PM

Its really no surprise if you follow human history....thou who is in power shall stay in power...most people don't remember that America was founded on getting away from tyrannical dictators and monarchs, and the reality is that is exactly what we have! First the Bush dynasty and then the Clinton dynasty. Its pathetic and frankly disgusting, but the best thing you can do is vote for congressmen and women, as well as further down the ballot that actually believe in the constitution and don't take money from lobbyists.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/28/16 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by samc99us
Its really no surprise if you follow human history....thou who is in power shall stay in power...most people don't remember that America was founded on getting away from tyrannical dictators


We need term limits!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/28/16 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by samc99us
Where in the United States Constitution does it state the government is responsible for protecting its citizens from itself???

Do you mean themselves?

Originally Posted by samc99us
Oh wait, your from California and a liberal to boot (what a surprise),

Yes. West Maui is just south of North Hollywood.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/28/16 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by samc99us
Its really no surprise if you follow human history....thou who is in power shall stay in power...


So I guess we're wasting all this air arguing stuff (candidates, issues, etc) when it's highly unlikely that anything will change...

maybe being fatalistic will allow more time for hobbies rather than all this discussion?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/28/16 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
We need term limits!


Maybe, but won't that exacerbate the elder/seasoned politians from totally routing the new folk? They do that now, but I can imagine how well the power-brokers will manipulate representatives if none are in office long enough to learn the old/new tricks?

As opposed to those entrenched in office so long they are already in the power-broker pocket...?

Hmmmm....
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/28/16 04:21 PM

Most issues that require public policy are very complicated and require hard choices to be made.

Term limits removes experienced experts with actual knowledge and wisdom from the process and replaces them with newbies.... Simply a bad idea. The lobby will have the experience and skills to run circles around you...

What you really want are politicians.. Yup... individuals who know how to negotiate and move the ball. Politicians who have the backbone to make hard choices within this negotiation on public policy issues are priceless.

It is a trivial thing for a politician to "make hard choices" and have NOBODY join him.... See Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz..... One old timer and one newbie... It is indisputable that these are two lightweight politicians are noted for making "hard choices" and getting NOTHING Accomplished.

Hard choices... are actually easy to make... when you don't have to get anything done ... After all... it is a democracy... autocrats are not the answer!
Posted By: samc99us

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/28/16 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by samc99us
Where in the United States Constitution does it state the government is responsible for protecting its citizens from itself???

Do you mean themselves?

Originally Posted by samc99us
Oh wait, your from California and a liberal to boot (what a surprise),

Yes. West Maui is just south of North Hollywood.


Yes, from themselves. It is the responsibility of the government to do the following (from here: http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/03/23/against-all-enemies/)

Thus, there was an obvious need for government Ė legitimate, just government to carry out two main functions:

(1) protecting free people from foreign enemies and invaders;

(2) protecting honest, self-responsible, hard-working citizens within the nation from domestic lawbreakers who would use coercion, fraud, or force to deprive others of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

If you harm yourself, by failing to wear a seatbelt (or properly straddle your horse, or what have you), that isn't the governments problem, nor should it be. Welcome to the nanny state... Can the government protect you from an avalanche if you cross into a known avalanche area? Can they protect you several hundred miles offshore, beyond reach of the most sophisticated miltary helicopters? Should they?? After all, was it their decision for you to be out there in the first place?

I fear America has become exactly what our founders set out NOT to create, and its the complacency of our citizens that has lead to this. Not that the people in power make it easy-and their are term limits in place which do just fine, but do you think Bill, or George, or any of the Presidents, Congressmen, Senators etc. really get out of politics just because they leave Washington? Its not like JuanK stopped designing boats because he had a couple of rather embarrassing and public failures, that's his career.

Surprisingly I agree with Mark on this, you need a skilled politician to navigate the system, but at the same time, its not term limits that are the problem. Its the money in politics. Big business, the NRA, U.S Chamber of Commerce etc. are the ones in control, NOT the citizens.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/28/16 07:57 PM

Quote
Its the money in politics. Big business, the NRA, U.S Chamber of Commerce etc. are the ones in control, NOT the citizens.


Tell that to Bernie and Donald Trump.... they have raised much/most of their money from citizens in small amounts.

Fact of life... that constitution that you choose to construe as doing just two things..... Makes it clear that citizens can petition their government... Petition = money = speech.

Big money in politics controls everything... sure... Tell it to Eric Cantor.... X member of the republican house leadership.

My view is that money comes from people and so cash over a certain amount comes with full disclosure and a SS number. Big money matches up to names... No more anonymous donors to pacs and super pacs..... Disclosure will allow the political process and a free press to vet private or public interest concerns. This system can work and has long been proposed by conservative pundit George Will.

I don't have a problem with the Koch brothers funding pro coal anti global warming efforts.. I get that this furthers their private interests... How it impacts my opinions is a function of their argument and the data they present.

Likewise, I don't have a problem with the big environmental donor funding the opposite point of view... He may have a financial interest in solar panel production.. again...knowledge about one's motives, interests and history is critical. The key point ... a name and SS number is attached...

Sunlight is the key.... not rants about big money.

There is a legit role for ANONYMOUS SPEECH. See Thomas Payne.... I think the courts should distinguish Speech as some form of Ideas being expressed. NOT CASH delivered in the dark of night.

I haven't thought about about what to do with stolen private communications now being made public... This seems different then stolen private documents and communications made within the government ostensibly for the public good/interest. So... yes... this is speech.... not so sure it should have no limits placed on it.

What we actually have to worry about is the debasement of two pillars of our democracy... independent judiciary and transfer of power.

Think about it.... it is just STUNNING for the FBI Director to go about discussing and releasing information in PRESS conferences on cases that DO NOT LEAD to judicial action months and now days before election. Yeah... he has the right of free speech... but ....See the latest dog and pony show s...t storm he created.... It threatens the basis of the constitution. This is just wrong and I can't remember any situation like this. Hell.... Ford pardoned Nixon to eliminate any chance of creating a slippery slope for judicial action against a high profile citizen getting railroaded (even if he was guilty as hell) and did this well before an election .... Comey...the republican... does not have the stones that Gerald Ford demonstrated. He seems happy to weigh in on elections rather then STFU. In this case... his free speech is undermining the basics of and independent judiciary ... one of three independent branches of government. Couple this with Trump hedging on the acceptance of the election results.... two out of the three constitutional branches of our government are BEING debased by two politicians in it for power for themselves. Wow!

Oh... and Congress... well it is supposed to do one of the few enumerated things in the constitution... advise and consent on appointments to one of the branches... WELL.... No!.... now the position seems to be... ONLY when we have a republican president will we do this job.. (see John McCain and of course the always wrong Ted Cruz)

This is about POWER.. not about Big Money... The big story is about the abuse of power... the old adage... follow the money.... well... the point is to follow the money because it leads you to and enables the abuse of power.

it ain't about the big money now....
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/29/16 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by samc99us
If you harm yourself, by failing to wear a seatbelt (or properly straddle your horse, or what have you), that isn't the governments problem, nor should it be. Welcome to the nanny state... Can the government protect you from an avalanche if you cross into a known avalanche area? Can they protect you several hundred miles offshore, beyond reach of the most sophisticated miltary helicopters? Should they?? After all, was it their decision for you to be out there in the first place?

I fear America has become exactly what our founders set out NOT to create, and its the complacency of our citizens that has lead to this. Not that the people in power make it easy-and their are term limits in place which do just fine, but do you think Bill, or George, or any of the Presidents, Congressmen, Senators etc. really get out of politics just because they leave Washington? Its not like JuanK stopped designing boats because he had a couple of rather embarrassing and public failures, that's his career.

Surprisingly I agree with Mark on this, you need a skilled politician to navigate the system, but at the same time, its not term limits that are the problem. Its the money in politics. Big business, the NRA, U.S Chamber of Commerce etc. are the ones in control, NOT the citizens.


You appear to be a libertarian. While it's good that you've found your own way, your ideas will never be tested.†
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/30/16 03:11 AM

Awe, mikey is so good with those absolutes.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/30/16 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by northsea junkie
Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
I"m voting for the lesser of two evils (Trump is not evil), and the choice is clear to me, how could it not be to anyone else? And if it's not, the yare NOT using pure logic.
It's about AMERICA!!



Well, use your logic Todd.

Trump is a pathalogical psychopath with a very simple body-language.
Watch his eyes shutting tight when he is obviously lying.

Here on the other side of the ocean it is evident to all of us!





What does the rest of the world think about Hillary Clinton?

fyi, I'm not wasting a vote on either one of those fools.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/30/16 03:56 PM

I fond it ironic that the Clinton campaign used sex scandals to derail Trump, and now they may be brought down from an investigation of sex scandal...

The more I read about Anthony Weiner.. this guy was a real degenerate... and both Bill and Hillary stated that Anthony is the son they never had, and Humma is their second daughter...

Like many, I am not wasting a vote on either of these two scumbags.... sad that California does not allow for a write in vote...
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/31/16 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Awe, mikey is so good with those absolutes.
Absoutely Carl.
Posted By: northsea junkie

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/31/16 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by northsea junkie

Well, use your logic Todd.

Trump is a pathalogical psychopath with a very simple body-language.
Watch his eyes shutting tight when he is obviously lying.
Here on the other side of the ocean it is evident to all of us!



What does the rest of the world think about Hillary Clinton?

fyi, I'm not wasting a vote on either one of those fools.



The rest of the world is (selfishly) primairily interested in the foreign affairs policy of both candidates.

I think for that reason that most sympathy goes for Hilary.

Despite the fact that she sure may be a she-devil.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/31/16 12:28 PM

Doesn't matter which one wins, we've all already lost.

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/MOwesWn3vU4[/video] RIP, Richard...

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/31/16 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

fyi, I'm not wasting a vote on either one of those fools.


Don't do that, Karl. You'll have no reason to complain if you didn't participate. Not that you'd ever complain about anything.... right?

You need sunshine. Your vitamin D is dropping like a stone up there.. Make a stop at Steeplechase and jump on someone's boat.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 10/31/16 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by northsea junkie
Despite the fact that she sure may be a she-devil.


Ha! that's funny Ronald! It's always good to hear what the rest of the world thinks of this train-wreck we call "politics in the media"..


My sincerest hope is that after this political show is completed November 9, we can take this enthusiasm for "the process" and maybe turn it toward USSailing or World Sailing Federation (or whatever they call it now)...
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 12:33 PM

Just adding my perspective from over the pond and close to the russian border (where their most sensitive military area )

Our national media is demonizing Trump while praising Clinton. Most friends and family of mine seem to accept the media picture as truth.
Personally I find both candidates untrustable to the extreme based on their verified historical actions.


I think I just observed some flying bacon outside my office window - becouse I actually agree with Todd. Seen from my office chair, the US election for president in 2016 looks like an choice of the "lesser evil".

Whomever the next US President might be - it will no doubt continue to be interesting times.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 04:10 PM

Well, don't discount all the conspiracy theories which also abound on social media. I think one or both candidates will be convicted or go missing, leaving vice-presidential candidates in charge, or executive orders keeping the current president for a 3rd term, Russian president Putin somehow gets elected, blah blah

So many other balls in the pitch as well... Supreme Court appointments, Cabinet ministers, Congressional members, etc.

I would consider myself somewhat "informed" as a voter, but the choices are certainly distasteful at best.

This "ugly" media campaign is nothing new, however. I believe it may reach all the way back to a particularly negative election for Thomas Jefferson in 1800? So we've got quite a history of slinging darts, misleading information, character assassinations, etc.

But it does make for awesome spectating. Too bad these folks determine the future for our country (and possibly beyond that).

You can take solice in the fact that while most governments have issues, the general population worldwide is usually much more amenable.

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 04:14 PM

Oh, and don't forget your "duck and cover" training. A certain radical leader is really trying hard to get a nuke missle working. This person is my real concern, as he appears to have the temprament to actually "push the button". Sanctions aren't working, so I would guess the politbureau feel there's nothing to lose...

Or almost as bad... they need money badly enough to sell this technology to other folks who have the same idea (maybe not ballistic missile, but nuclear delivery nonetheless)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 05:31 PM

Not all Donald Trump supporters are white supremacists, but all white supremacists appear to be Donald Trump supporters.

[Linked Image]

Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 07:07 PM

Hobie1616

If you are into white supremacy - I suggest travelling to Russia or eastern europe in general. They are good at that kind of mentality.


The dirty sort of posting you just made is part of the issue - it is not under the control of Trump and it really does not describe his politics as I understand them. But it is very useful to mentally try to smear white supremacy on Trump.
Just like the other side is smearing whatever they can on Clinton.

I find that kind of stuff tiresome and targeted at kids who are not educated and critical thinkers. But after cutting away all the dirty fluff there is still more than enough evidence of both candidates not being excatly "the right stuff" to put it mildly.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 08:40 PM

Rolf, Here's the problem. Not all republicans... even most of them are white nationalists, racists, bigots, anti Semites or in clinton's word "deplorables"... but all of these folks, who call themselves members of these groups are aligned with Trump. It took Trump a week to decline the support of one of the countries high profile politicians, an ex KKK leader. These kind words were not even as subtle as dog whistles. The behavior has caused many prominent members of the party to renounce ever voting for him... much less supporting his agenda, or fitness for office. In a two party system.... they are forced to choose.... and in not choosing risk the fates of what they see as a dangerous outcome and then be forced to shoulder their responsibility or lack there of.

These never trumpers consider that allowing ANY of these "deplorables" a seat at the table or even in the room as unacceptable and counter to their conservative governing agenda and their ability to get 270 electoral votes. 50 years ago, the conservative movement threw out the John Birch Society and the Koch brothers father for their antisemitism. .... they managed to elect Reagan and two Bushes holding to those principles by keeping the deplorable far far away ... Now even the Koch brothers decline to support Trump because the company he keeps is unacceptable.

So, the old saying.... sleep with dogs... don't be surprised by waking up with fleas is advice they are taking to heart.

Perhaps in your parliamentary system, the option of a voting for a minority party and hoping for a coalition government is a choice... but not in the States.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 09:00 PM

So? That changes nothing regarding my argument that smearing is just that. Smearing.

Calling half the population "deplorables" is not exactly policy. And Trump and the trumpists are not any better as far as I can see.

Focus on policy, what the candidates and partys say they will do, and later what they really did. Not the dirtslinging and PsyOps which is what you and Mike is bringing to the discussion now.

Regarding policy - I dont like what Hillary wants to do with the US or foreign policy, and I dont like what Trump wants to do either. :-)


Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/01/16 11:12 PM

We have saying... people = policy....ergo... the flee problem.

But Got it, you hear this as smears given your filters. ... If you want policy here... you have to go read it...on the clinton web site.... much quicker read at the trump site. It seems most people are bored with policy... don't care, don't think the congress will do a dam thing about any policy anyway... so, just like the last 6 years... or just vote their tribe.

So... what should the US foreign policy be from a euro view point.? Should we copy the Brits? What should be our principle... and where would you put that principle into play?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Focus on policy, what the candidates and partys say they will do, and later what they really did.

Okay.

Trump wants to know why we can't use the nukes we've got.

Throw out every immigrant, legal or illegal, that's ever come to the US.

Bar any Muslim from entering the country. Period.

All Mexicans are thieves and rapists.

Deny the vote to minorities.

Your thoughts?
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 09:57 AM

Mike

sounds like a russian ultra-nationalist from the 90s to me. Ref. what I said initially about both candidates..




Mark,

I think the US needs to focus on national debt, budget deficits, internal issues /and/ foreign policy. Discussing foreign policy as an isolated case is not really relevant in my opinion.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
Doesn't matter which one wins, we've all already lost.

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/MOwesWn3vU4[/video] RIP, Richard...

Mike


Here's another one, complete with a room full of brainwashed minions. Simply brilliant...

https://youtu.be/e6u0utMpFXo

Mike

BTW, why can't I get these to show up as boxes you can view on this site anymore?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by brucat

BTW, why can't I get these to show up as boxes you can view on this site anymore?


I think you have to change the hyperlink... the video insert thingy on this site doesn't understand the "youtu.be" thing. I think there is a way to switch to the http:\\youtube.com which will work with that video button
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
I think the US needs to focus on national debt, budget deficits, internal issues /and/ foreign policy. Discussing foreign policy as an isolated case is not really relevant in my opinion.


I would agree with your thoughts Rolf, as would most of the citizenry here in USA. But I would counter that actually making progress in any of those areas is much more difficult than you would imagine.

I read an article (posted earlier) about debt:GDP ratios by country and it would appear in my view that most developed countries carry ratios of 75% or higher (debt to economic ability), which ironically appears to be about the same debt:equity that banks require for personal loans.

I think the government being debt free might inadvertantly cripple the financial services sector of the global economy?

Posted By: jollyrodgers

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 06:07 PM

The media is corporate controlled, and there is no mandate directing the media to be truthful. They can legally make up their stories from fiction.
Voting in the usa is not transparent. You can't track your vote.
The federal reserve is a corporate privately owned bank that prints money without backing it up, then charges the USA interest on all the money that they print. Also the current fractional reserve system allows banks to monetize debt.
This presidential election has 5 candidates. We vote by mail at our house, and i saw the ballots. The idea that we have to vote for 1 of 2 candidates for presi of the stesi is a fallacy.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 06:59 PM

I agree with some of your points.

Yes, the media is controlled by corporate interests. Since the suspension of both the Fairness Doctrine as well as the Equal Time Act, there is no rule requiring the media to present all aspects of an issue or political candidate equally. I believe today's media may be considered more "info-tainment" than straight fact. I'm no Edward R. Murrow but it does sometimes shock me what the media presents as 'fact'.

Voting in the USA is somewhat transparent. While you may not be able to track your individual vote (the ballot does not contain your name), in our state votes are tracked with paper backup as well as computer tabulation. Records are kept of who voted (but not what their vote was) and if the number of people who voted does NOT equal the number of ballots, there is a full investigation.

So I can track whether my vote was tabulated, but no one but me will know how I cast my vote.

And yes, you are correct in there are more than 2 presidential candidates listed on the ballot. I think it's fair to say that there are only two candidates with a realistic shot at gathering enough votes/delegates to secure the majority win...As a "winner take all" country, rather than a more parlimentary system, we tend to ignore those candidates with no statistical chance of advancing.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 09:00 PM

Quote
Discussing foreign policy as an isolated case is not really relevant in my opinion.


well....we cook things down to their essence.

The US is the lone superpower spending an enormous amount more money on defense then even aggregates of countries.... I know the US stance will have profound influence on your part of the world...

so,

are you more of an isolationist.... the US Military is a huge deterrent just by sitting in the US ports and the US won't inject military power around the world. see old school republicans ... Lingburgh...and now Gary Johnson.

are you a classic Republican....The US role REMAINS fighting the godless communists... now autocrats of russia and china See Bob Dole. Richard Nixon. Reagan

Are you a anticomunist Democrat... aka Kennedy and Johnson. Carter... containment with out reach to the communists.

Are you a realist Republican ... the US role is leadership and maintaining the status quo... so Bush I kicked Iraq out of Kuwait... but refused to upset the world order and take over Iraq.

Are you supporting Obama's foreign policy which is much like Bush I and Clinton I and II... Realist democrat Which is to build international institutions, maintain world order and support human rights where you can with military power with minimal footprints. eg. Kuwait, Bosnia/Serbia, Lybia?

Are you for the totally novel approach of trump who proposes... with draw from ensuring nuclear non proliferation.... withdraw from Nato and asian treaties which cost us too much money and tie our hands in knots from taking what we want... and replace it with belicose noise and large increases in defense spending so that we can act about how tough and kick butt the US will be in the future.

What works for northern Europe... if you can't pick from one of these traditions?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 11:17 PM

All the news...

ďNeo-Nazi leader Andrew Anglin plans to muster thousands of poll watchers across all 50 states. His partners at the alt-right website Ďthe Right Stuffí are touting plans to set up hidden cameras at polling places in Philadelphia and hand out liquor and marijuana in the cityís Ďghettoí on Election Day to induce residents to stay home.

In a related story, Democrats plan to hand out moonshine and meth in rural areas to induce residents to stay home.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/02/16 11:32 PM



Word.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/03/16 12:43 PM

Mark

it does not matter really.

Why not?

Becouse if the USA find it in US interest - the US will act on national interests no matter what I think or what president is elected in a few days smile

The rest of your question is really about moral and good vs evil. That is really not "essencial".

Without a sound economy and a unified populace to build on - the toolbox for implementing foreign policy becomes very restricted. Lack of finances and a populace with high level of internal tension was what brought the USSR down.


USA is built on some clear principles (known as what forms policy) and needs, and have a strong history. I dont find much of those principles and history represented by the two candidates. Even though one of them do claim to represent just this: MAGA etc. while the other claim to be the candidate for a growing economy (but no mention about budget deficits)..


Be assured that I have the same questions on our own government - and I dont find much I can respect there either.




Of much more interest is the original topic Todd brought up. What role does the media have in the election and in forming policy. Ie. are they reporting fact and bringing valuable analysis/comments/perspectives to the election, or even in forming policy?
I know what I think - and no surprise that I think media is guilty of dumbing down and distorting facts more than serving their independent og very important role. And I find the same viewpoints and angles on matters in our national media.
Pretty interesting?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/03/16 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Hobie1616

If you are into white supremacy - I suggest travelling to Russia or eastern europe in general. They are good at that kind of mentality.


The dirty sort of posting you just made is part of the issue - it is not under the control of Trump and it really does not describe his politics as I understand them. But it is very useful to mentally try to smear white supremacy on Trump.
Just like the other side is smearing whatever they can on Clinton.

I find that kind of stuff tiresome and targeted at kids who are not educated and critical thinkers. But after cutting away all the dirty fluff there is still more than enough evidence of both candidates not being excatly "the right stuff" to put it mildly.


Well put... Thank you
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/03/16 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by jollyrodgers
The media is corporate controlled, and there is no mandate directing the media to be truthful. They can legally make up their stories from fiction.


Yes the can, but then again, they are opening themselves up to a slander suit.... Understandably they will have to prove "actual malice", but this could hurt their credibility of a new source...

Look at the case of Brian Williams/NBC and Dan Rather/CBS
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Focus on policy, what the candidates and partys say they will do, and later what they really did.

Okay.

Trump wants to know why we can't use the nukes we've got.

Throw out every immigrant, legal or illegal, that's ever come to the US.

Bar any Muslim from entering the country. Period.

All Mexicans are thieves and rapists.

Deny the vote to minorities.

Your thoughts?


Trump is an idiot that talks a lot, but Clinton, now she is a gal of action.. for instance:

1. Gave Russia a reset button which reset cold war
2. Lack of a coherent plan to address the Arab Spring
3. Deteriorating relations with Israel
4. Assessment of Bashar al-Assad (whom she labeled a ďreformerĒ)
5. Cluelessness that withdrawal of U.S. forces in Iraq would give the radicals a foothold
6. Benghazi scandal
7. Lack of bringing to justice the jihadists who killed our 4 Americans
8. Victory lap on Osama bin Laden giving a false impression of al-Qaedaís decimation
9. Blindsiding the Israeli prime minister with a public declaration of U.S. policy on ď1967 bordersĒ
10. Backing Hugo Chavezís candidate in Honduras rather that the middle and business classesí choice (who was also pro-American)
11. Relaxation of Cuban sanctions followed by Alan Grossís imprisonment
12. Surprising Poland and the Czech Republic by pulling out anti-missile sites
13. Embracing Hosni Mubarak (calling him a family friend) just when pressure was needed to prevent what ultimately became his overthrow
14. The lack of a cogent approach to the Middle East
15. Failing to take decisive action in Syria before jihadists poured into the country
16. The decision to overthrow President Gaddafi in Libya
17. Downplaying human rights, especially with China
18. Failing to robustly support the Green Revolution
19. Engagement of Iran and foot-dragging on sanctions, allowing Iran to reach the cusp of a nuclear weapons capability
20. Announced ďpivotĒ to Asia without carrying through
21. Erased email server
22. Clinton cash
23. Maintaining the status quo with Pakistan
24. Lied to FBI and to Congress
25. Creator of ISIS by pulling out of Iraq too quickly despite military recommendation not to
26. Called Trump Supporters ďBasket of DeplorablesĒ
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Trump is an idiot that talks a lot, but Clinton, now she is a gal of action.. for instance:

1. Gave Russia a reset button which reset cold war
2. Lack of a coherent plan to...

Good work femalegenitalia-n-Paste, I'll see your Clinton bashing and raise you a Newsweek Magazine cover.

Why Russians Are Backing Trump
Inside Putin's efforts to dissolve NATO

Issue hits newsstands tomorrow.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 02:36 AM

Guess What, Iowa Cop Killer Was ĎTroubled Loner.í Thereís A Lot Of Those!

Greene was ejected from a high school football game after taunting black audience members and waving a Confederate flag at them because they hadnít stood for the National Anthem.

Todd? Chumley? Sparky?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 03:18 PM

VLADIMIR PUTIN: WHY HE FEARS A HILLARY CLINTON WHITE HOUSE

There are plenty of signs that Moscow isnít pleased with the prospect of a Clinton presidency. In recent months, Russia made a series of bold moves that harked back to the 1980s, offering tours of Cold War bomb shelters, staging intercontinental ballistic missile tests on state television and announcing war rations in case of a conflict with the U.S.

Russiaís consternation also stems from the fact the U.S. has already started its energy war. As of January, America began exporting crude oil for the first time in four decades. This March, it also began exporting more liquefied natural gas than it was importing for the first time since Dwight Eisenhower was president...

Russia depends on its revenue from oil and gas for more than half of its federal budget, according to its Ministry of Finance. That, combined with weak energy prices in recent years and Russia being stuck in its longest recession in two decades, leaves the country and Putin in a very precarious position. Much of its petroleum export revenue comes from countries in the European Union, many of which are U.S. allies. Mindful of this, Clinton told Deutsche Bank in October 2014, ďI want to export gas, especially to our friends in order to undercut, in Europeís case, the pressure from Russia.Ē

Eroding Russiaís energy dominance is a much shrewder way to handle it than direct conflict or even cyberwarfare, says retired Air Force General Michael Hayden, former head of both the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency under George W. Bush.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 03:35 PM

WHY VLADIMIR PUTINíS RUSSIA IS BACKING DONALD TRUMP

While American intelligence officers have privately briefed Trump about Russiaís attempts to influence the U.S. election, he has publicly dismissed that information as unreliable, instead saying this hacking of incredible sophistication and technical complexity could have been done by some 400-pound ďguy sitting on their bedĒ or even a child.

Officials from two European countries tell Newsweek that Trumpís comments about Russiaís hacking have alarmed several NATO partners because it suggests he either does not believe the information he receives in intelligence briefings, does not pay attention to it, does not understand it or is misleading the American public for unknown reasons.

Trumpís behavior, however, has at times concerned the Russians, leading them to revise their hacking and disinformation strategy. For example, when Trump launched into an inexplicable attack on the parents of a Muslim-American soldier who died in combat, the Kremlin assumed the Republican nominee was showing himself psychologically unfit to be president and would be forced by his party to withdraw from the race.

Trump and his campaign have also spread propaganda created as part of the Kremlin's effort, relying on bogus information generated through traditional Russian disinformation techniques. In one instance, a manipulated document was put out onto the internet anonymously by propagandists working with Russia; within hours, Trump was reciting that false information at a campaign rally.

The words that so shocked the British were ďour country has no idea,Ē and ďI doubt it.Ē All of the NATO allies are sure Russia is behind the hacking. All of Americaís intelligence agencies are, too. The foreign intelligence services had been sharing what they knew about this with the Americans, and Trump had been told about it. But he blithely dismissed the conclusion of not only the United States but its allies as well, based on absolutely nothing.

And so, for perhaps the first time since World War II, countries in Western Europe fear that the American election, should Trump win, could trigger events that imperil their national security and do potentially irreparable harm to the alliances that have kept the continent safe for decades.


There's a lot more Schwartz. Read it over and provide us your thoughts.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 04:01 PM

Do you know these guys Todd? It's okay Todd, we understand.

This is the alt-right.

Until recently, not many Americans knew this term, a catchall for a loose confederation of far-right locos so deviant that a few years ago they were in danger of extinction. Then they found Trump. Or Trump found them. Now, they are stationed along his parapets in a union that represents the biggest uptick of white power activity in American politics since the Ku Klux Klanís invisible empire in the 1920s. Neo-Nazis do door-knocks for Trump and scream ďSieg HeilĒ outside his rallies. And Trump has gone along for the ride, retweeting alt-right propaganda and hiring Stephen Bannon, whose Breitbart News Network has become the most significant transmitter of the movementís ideas to a mass audience. Thanks to Trump, ethno-nationalism is poised to be a force in American politics for the first time in decades.

My Journey to the Center of the Alt-Right
Posted By: jollyrodgers

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 04:54 PM

i am guessing the owners of which ever corp owns newsweek, want Hillary to win. How in the world do they have access to American intelligence briefings? or did they take a little creative license there?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/04/16 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
WHY VLADIMIR PUTINíS RUSSIA IS BACKING DONALD TRUMP


Officials from two European countries tell Newsweek that Trumpís comments about Russiaís hacking have alarmed several NATO partners because it suggests he either does not believe the information he receives in intelligence briefings, does not pay attention to it, does not understand it or is misleading the American public for unknown reasons.



How would they have information to what is noted on the National Security Briefings... Oh..!! Darn silly me... I forgot Hillary gets the same briefing and it's on her server...

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 12:50 AM

Are you sure you don't know these guys Todd?

And yet even in the best-case scenarioóif the alt-right's leaders slink back into obscurity after the electionóthe movement has unleashed an ugly and volatile force into American politics. It has proved that a small group of trolls can poison discourse with violent, racist rhetoric and help to elevate a candidate who entertains ideas like registering all Muslim Americans in a database. It has built the iconography, language and infrastructure for a millennial version of an old hate. And together, the alt-right and Trump have created a potential space for a nationalist white voting bloc. Itís not so hard to imagine a European-style ethno-nationalist movement emerging from Trumpism, one that isnít dependent on hardcore alt-righters but taps into the alt-lite and alt-white demos.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 02:07 AM

I realize Steven isn't as big a deal to you wingers as Nugent but this is a pretty big event.

The black belt martial artist-turned-action movie star ďhas been insistent for a long time in asking to be granted Russian citizenship,Ē Putin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters in Russia. ďHe is known for his warm feelings to our country, he never made a secret of it, and heís also a well-known actor, which gave grounds to make him a Russian citizen.Ē

In 2013, the Kremlin tapped Seagal to be the face of its weapons industry and help market the Degtarev arms plant.

And just like that, Steven Seagal has become a Russian citizen

Will he use his Secret Ninja skills to plant even more false information with the FBI?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 02:20 AM

Foreigner steals jobs from Americans.

TRUMP'S WIFE MODELED IN US PRIOR TO GETTING WORK VISA

More lies Schwartz?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 02:37 AM

Megaproducer Chuck Lorre puts a vanity card in the end credits of his TV shows. This one appeared in last night's Big Bang Theory credits.

CHUCK LORRE PRODUCTIONS, #541

Don't be fooled. Big Daddy can't save us. Our salvation lies within ourselves. Within our own ingenuity and determined effort. "Make America great again" is a bumper sticker for victimhood. But we are not victims. We are the creators of opportunity. Sure the system's rigged. It always has been. So what?! We are a nation of immigrants who have consistently ignored the rigging. You won't let us join your club? %#&@ you, we'll start our own club. You won't let us go to your school? %#&@ you, we'll start our own school. You won't let us earn money your way? %#&@ you, we'll earn it our way. You won't give us a chance here? %#&@ you, we will go elsewhere. You want to know what makes America great? I got two words for you.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616

Good work femalegenitalia-n-Paste, I'll see your Clinton bashing and raise you a Newsweek Magazine cover.


Ha! Coming from the person who can't weave together a coherent paragraph on his own or convey an opinion with out playing kunt n' paste.

Ya killin' me mikey. Keep it up though, I need a little entertainment now and again.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 04:57 AM

Here's a fun game, tell me something positive about either of the two major party candidates. Seems that's a unique oddity in today's election process where sh!t slinging is their only proficient attribute.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Focus on policy, what the candidates and partys say they will do, and later what they really did.

Okay.

Trump wants to know why we can't use the nukes we've got.

Throw out every immigrant, legal or illegal, that's ever come to the US.

Bar any Muslim from entering the country. Period.

All Mexicans are thieves and rapists.

Deny the vote to minorities.

Your thoughts?


Mikee, THIS show how absolutely close minded and irrational you, and most libtards are. You of all people would actually believe what you posted.

I can't even post an argument/rebuttal with your twilight zone mentality.
Too bad for me/us that many have this one sided, close minded, lie spewing mentality.

You're such a tool Mikee
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by jollyrodgers
The media is corporate controlled, and there is no mandate directing the media to be truthful. They can legally make up their stories from fiction.
Voting in the usa is not transparent. You can't track your vote.
The federal reserve is a corporate privately owned bank that prints money without backing it up, then charges the USA interest on all the money that they print. Also the current fractional reserve system allows banks to monetize debt.
This presidential election has 5 candidates. We vote by mail at our house, and i saw the ballots. The idea that we have to vote for 1 of 2 candidates for presi of the stesi is a fallacy.


Right, but in our screwed system, the top two are the only ones that will win anytime soon. If you actually care, you'll vote for the lesser of two evils- in this case it's a no brainer- and it ain't for no Child rapist defending multi millionaire- from the American political system.

It seems no one really understands how corrupt, and how the Clintons machine is made multi millions- illegally off of their political influence.
Has Trump made millions from being a politician? Not yet anyways.
It's here and now, lesser of two evils, no comparison on who that is.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Guess What, Iowa Cop Killer Was ĎTroubled Loner.í Thereís A Lot Of Those!

Greene was ejected from a high school football game after taunting black audience members and waving a Confederate flag at them because they hadnít stood for the National Anthem.

Todd? Chumley? Sparky?


Ya know MIkee, I've also actually read about why allegedly he was upset at those two cops.
Usually however, the mainstream media usually leaves that part out.
If it is true, neither one of us was there.
I didn't hear he waved the confederate flag b/c some black didn't stand for the anthem however.

Either way,
#1. - I never would have brought an Confederate flag into the stands, etc. Much to your amazement, I can't ever remember owning anything with a confederate flag on it, or a confederate flag, etc. But your mentality no doubt thinks I probably manufacture them.
#2- I think the cops more than likely tried to keep the peace, and could see that this move (if true, may have been), was not an intelligent one, and removed him and his flag.
Of all the 'true' conservatives I've ever known, none of them have been the least bit 'racially predjudice'.

Funny how the party that kept blacks from voting, and kept schools segregated, and is/was the party of the KKK is: ? It sure wasn't the Republicans.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
All the news...

ďNeo-Nazi leader Andrew Anglin plans to muster thousands of poll watchers across all 50 states. His partners at the alt-right website Ďthe Right Stuffí are touting plans to set up hidden cameras at polling places in Philadelphia and hand out liquor and marijuana in the cityís Ďghettoí on Election Day to induce residents to stay home.

In a related story, Democrats plan to hand out moonshine and meth in rural areas to induce residents to stay home.


laugh
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Focus on policy, what the candidates and partys say they will do, and later what they really did.

Okay.

Trump wants to know why we can't use the nukes we've got.

Throw out every immigrant, legal or illegal, that's ever come to the US.

Bar any Muslim from entering the country. Period.

All Mexicans are thieves and rapists.

Deny the vote to minorities.

Your thoughts?


Mikee, THIS show how absolutely close minded and irrational you, and most libtards are. You of all people would actually believe what you posted.

I can't even post an argument/rebuttal with your twilight zone mentality.
Too bad for me/us that many have this one sided, close minded, lie spewing mentality.

You're such a tool Mikee

Of course you can't post a rebuttal Todd. All of the policies come direct from Trump's mouth. Meanwhile, did you know Weird Al wrote a song about you?

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 08:38 PM

"A victory by Hillary Clinton in deeply blue California is expected ó with some polls showing the Democratic candidate with a large lead. But that hasnít stopped some people ó mostly conservative and overwhelmingly white ó from signing up to try to scour for voter fraud."

Overwhelmingly white. Why is that Todd?

"Orange County has a controversial history when it comes to poll observing. In 1988, the Orange County registrar of voters was told that mostly Latino residents arriving at 20 Santa Ana polling locations were greeted on the day of the presidential election by uniformed guards holding signs with a message in Spanish and English that read: ďNon-Citizens Canít Vote.Ē

The guards had been hired by the campaign of a Republican state assembly candidate, and the incident produced allegations of voter intimidation and racism ó as well as a lawsuit that eventually was settled."

"Trumpís calls for supporters, who are mostly white, to watch for fraud by urban voters, including in places like Philadelphia ó with a population that is about 50% black ó has led many critics to accuse him of bigotry."

Bigotry by Republicans?!?! Say it ain't so Todd.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 09:56 PM

since it's illegal to present election results before close of polling on election day, AND election results aren't official until for up to 10 days after election day (to give time to count absentee and provisional ballots), these "polls" you refer to can only be speculations based on:

- exit poll interviewing (those few people who will discuss who they voted for. Keep in mind the ballots are forever secret, so we have to trust when a voter "says" they voted for a particular candidate/issue)

- Demographics. It is public record to know WHO voted (and what party they are registered with) but not HOW they voted, so if a particular precinct has 1500 voters participate in early voting, and 75% of those are Democratic, the "polls" can only speculate that all of the registered voters will vote straight down their party lines. So they can say "Democrats are in the lead" ONLY because more of them showed up at a particular time. Did all of them vote their party? Doubtful

Focus on the issues, rather than these "polls" which are concocted by media interests to help influence us sheep out there to "go with the winner"... But the public loves to be spoon-fed and patted on the head, so ....

Does that make me an angry voter? I would like to think not, but the head-fake the media presents does give me pause at how gullible we (myself included) can be.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/05/16 10:09 PM

Actually, one (or two) good things about this whole train-wreck? Being in a swing state, I had the luxury of meeting BOTH candidates and one ex-president within the span of a week.

Had I only known to wear an "UNDECIDED" t-shirt I could probably have had them kissing my keister, but that's for the next election I guess.

And I will give serious props to the kool-aide drinkers otherwise known as Campaign Aides who have got to be the most motivated, hard-working millenials I've ever seen. They must live on red-bull and Nyquill as most looked so strung out last week I thought they'd collapse.

When I asked an 'aide' an "off-message" question, the response reminded me of the Star Trek (season 2 episode 12; I, Mudd)... "I am not programmed to respond in that area"
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/06/16 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


Ha! Coming from the person who can't weave together a coherent paragraph on his own or convey an opinion with out playing kunt n' paste.

Ya killin' me mikey. Keep it up though, I need a little entertainment now and again.


Your thought would flow much better if you said, "... who can't weave a coherent paragraph together on his own..."

With out is spelled without.

Keep trying Carl. You'll eventually catch up with Todd the CAPS LOCK king.
Posted By: northsea junkie

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/06/16 02:11 PM

Why is it, that with complex problems like voting the leader, makes that everybody tries to proof his right.
Advancing out that all the facts point in their big being right.
Despite the media epoch which informs every intelligent person very well.


There is a theory that our judgement is far less rational as we think.

This theory suggests that we all have this moral gut feeling which works as a loathsome mechanisme.
This starts already when we are baby's. Do you, yes or no, like the milk, the food , which toys to play with, etc.

Later on this moral intuition will eventually bond people together in "moral tribes".
Like the conservatives contra the progessives, the left or rightwings, etc.

However, because of this loathing mechanism, bringing up facts and figures, wlll by definition never convince the other tribe!

More's the pity that this theory gives no real solution.
Maybe focus on the moderating group. Hardliners can never be reached anyway.

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/06/16 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


Ha! Coming from the person who can't weave together a coherent paragraph on his own or convey an opinion with out playing kunt n' paste.

Ya killin' me mikey. Keep it up though, I need a little entertainment now and again.


Your thought would flow much better if you said, "... who can't weave a coherent paragraph together on his own..."

With out is spelled without.

Keep trying Carl. You'll eventually catch up with Todd the CAPS LOCK king.




Your recommendations have been considered and dismissed.

Try again?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/06/16 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by northsea junkie
Why is it, that with complex problems like voting the leader, makes that everybody tries to proof his right.
Advancing out that all the facts point in their big being right.
Despite the media epoch which informs every intelligent person very well.


There is a theory that our judgement is far less rational as we think.

This theory suggests that we all have this moral gut feeling which works as a loathsome mechanisme.
This starts already when we are baby's. Do you, yes or no, like the milk, the food , which toys to play with, etc.

Later on this moral intuition will eventually bond people together in "moral tribes".
Like the conservatives contra the progessives, the left or rightwings, etc.

However, because of this loathing mechanism, bringing up facts and figures, wlll by definition never convince the other tribe!

More's the pity that this theory gives no real solution.
Maybe focus on the moderating group. Hardliners can never be reached anyway.



A perfect example of tribalism is right here in front of us. mikey will blindly follow fools like Obama, and Todd will blindly follow fools like Bush. In the current State, Clinton and Trump.

Our two party system is completely fukced. I have no demographic to cling to. The republicans are too liberal for me fiscally and too into controlling every facet of my life. The democrats are the exact same except for shuffling around a few got button topics that have zero value in the operation of our Republic.

I despise both of the presidential candidates. They are both trash human beings. Luckily I've got some good people running on the local level decent on the state level. That's what really matters. The actual role of our president isn't that great, the Seat does not carry that much actual power without Congress behind it, in theory. When you get pieces of sh!t like Bush and Obama in there, and sheep not holding their elected accountable, you get done of the problems we've got.

Our government is corrupt on virtually every level and has strayed so far from what it started, I don't think there's any going back.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/06/16 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


Ha! Coming from the person who can't weave together a coherent paragraph on his own or convey an opinion with out playing kunt n' paste.

Ya killin' me mikey. Keep it up though, I need a little entertainment now and again.


Your thought would flow much better if you said, "... who can't weave a coherent paragraph together on his own..."

With out is spelled without.

Keep trying Carl. You'll eventually catch up with Todd the CAPS LOCK king.


Your recommendations have been considered and dismissed.

Try again?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/06/16 03:56 PM

The S&P 500 was down Friday for the ninth straight day, something that hasnít happened since 1980. ďThe U.S. elections are the elephant in the room for markets,Ē Julius Baerís head of research Christian Gatticker told Bloomberg. Donald Trump is still a long shot, consistently trailing Clinton in key swing states, but the stock market seems to be evaluating his odds for what they are: a low, if real, chance of economic harm.

Deporting some 11 million undocumented immigrants, building a wall along the border with Americaís third biggest trading partner, starting a trade war with Mexico and China that would destroy 4 million U.S. jobs: These are all deeply harmful economic policies.

Moodyís says Trumpís policies would throw the U.S. economy into the longest recession since the Great Depression. Citigroup thinks a Trump win could cause a global depression. By a different measure, Trump in the White House would cause the American economy to shrink by $1 trillion over five years, according to British research firm Oxford Economics.

That a campaign based on those ideas still has by some estimates a 35 percent chance of winning should scare markets.


You don't care do you Carl? You've got your little cabinet shop deal going so you're immune from Wall Street. Oh, wait. Wasn't wind blown saw dust the only thing moving in your shop during the last downturn?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/06/16 05:51 PM

But I survived and thrived didn't I? I work for the 1% on up, they give no ****s when it comes to showing off their worth, especially when the smart ones hedge on things going to hell. When there's blood on the streets, but property.

I seriously doubt Trump will be elected. How rigged the game is was shown top us when Clinton took the Democratic Party's nomination.

Building a wall? Neither's puppet master will allow it.
Removing all the illegals? Neither's puppet master will allow it.

And as far as me caring, I don't really. Bring on the chaos, I'm getting bored.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 02:23 AM

"It turns out that Trump is not the rough-talking, screwy, ignorant candidate they say he is, but is actually a wise politician and a prescient presidential candidate." ó A May 31 column in DPRK Today, a mouthpiece of the reclusive, deeply anti-American regime in North Korea, after the Republican nominee suggested the U.S. should pull its troops from South Korea unless Seoul pays it more.

No wonder the wingers are firmly behind Trump.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 03:17 AM

Oh oh...

The FBI's much-trumpeted new scrutiny of emails related to Hillary Clinton has turned up nothing that would cause the bureau to recommend charges against her, the bureau's director, James B. Comey, has told Congress.

Somebody stepped in a doggie Picasso.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
But I survived and thrived didn't I? I work for the 1% on up, they give no ****s when it comes to showing off their worth, especially when the smart ones hedge on things going to hell. When there's blood on the streets, but property.

I seriously doubt Trump will be elected. How rigged the game is was shown top us when Clinton took the Democratic Party's nomination.

Building a wall? Neither's puppet master will allow it.
Removing all the illegals? Neither's puppet master will allow it.

And as far as me caring, I don't really. Bring on the chaos, I'm getting bored.


Rigged? I'm surprised how many people are buying into that. The voting system is so purposefully disjointed that it would be practically impossible to actually rig it. Everyone keeps screaming "rigged!" but where's the evidence?

The electoral college is an artifact - I'll give you that but it's worked in republican's favor in the not so distant past. The same guys that are screaming rigged are pointing at polling stations that are staying open late to allow the people already in line at closing time to place their vote (due to overwhelming local turnout). They point at this as "rigging" the vote. However, folks, being provided a chance to vote is the foundation of democracy. The fact that people are publicly trying to keep people from voting and not getting called to the mat for it is terrifying. It's bad enough with the gerrymandering that takes place with district border manipulation but this is a whole new level. Man, this is some twisted crap and I'm shocked at some of the people that are buying it without question.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 01:44 PM

We're too divided. Maybe what we need is a horrifying failure for the next four years, to unify us behind someone like in the Carter/Reagan election? Bush II and Obama tried, but apparently weren't quite bad enough.

Channeling Rachel Phelps here...

Mike
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
I realize Steven isn't as big a deal to you wingers as Nugent but this is a pretty big event.

The black belt martial artist-turned-action movie star ďhas been insistent for a long time in asking to be granted Russian citizenship,Ē Putin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters in Russia. ďHe is known for his warm feelings to our country, he never made a secret of it, and heís also a well-known actor, which gave grounds to make him a Russian citizen.Ē

In 2013, the Kremlin tapped Seagal to be the face of its weapons industry and help market the Degtarev arms plant.

And just like that, Steven Seagal has become a Russian citizen

Will he use his Secret Ninja skills to plant even more false information with the FBI?

The national nightmare is over. Nugent is back in the news.

[size:14pt][b]Ted Nugent grabs his crotch at Trump rally[/b][/size]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 04:18 PM

No surprise here...


Donald Trump is losing more than this election. If recent news reports and his own self-evident behavior are any indication, may also be losing his mind.

Trump has entered the final days of his campaign increasingly anxious and in need of both discipline and reassurance, according to a shocking New York Times report Sunday. He barely sleeps and reportedly needs aides to keep him company late at night, particularly his son-in-law and adviser Jared Kushner. Because his poll numbers are looking worse and worse by the day, heís had to instead point to the size of his rallies and insist that aides vocally share his optimism. When in less generous moods, Trump has made ominous threats, such as vowing to create a super PAC after the election which exact vengeance against politicians he deems to have been enemies.

Perhaps the most remarkable story is how Trumpís Twitter account ó which he once wielded like an ax against everyone from Republican primary opponents and Hillary Clinton to former pageant queens who angered him at 3 a.m. ó has been taken over by his staff, who review and edit his tweets before publishing them.

Trumpís deteriorating mental state has also had a very real impact on the substance of his campaign. Despite maintaining comparatively higher discipline now than in the early months of his candidacy, Trump has still shot himself in the foot, despite pleas from those around him. On Oct. 22, as he prepared for a speech in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, intended to draw attention to a series of populist policy proposals, Trump insisted on threatening to sue the women who had publicly accused him of sexual assault.


Still bored Carl? I'm heading to Costco to buy a case of popcorn.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
We're too divided. Maybe what we need is a horrifying failure for the next four years, to unify us behind someone like in the Carter/Reagan election? Bush II and Obama tried, but apparently weren't quite bad enough.

Channeling Rachel Phelps here...

Mike


I would counter that it's in no one's best interest that the government "fail". I doubt seriously that anyone would actually wish that upon their political rival, as my recollection of a failed government is something like Somalia which no one wants.

Sure, you've stockpiled 10,000 rounds of ammunition and some C-4. But I don't think that will solve a whole lot when the country is in khaos (no utilities, no martial law, etc.). Unless you've got a large piece of property (and the manpower to defend it from the hoards) and are really good at farming...

Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 05:23 PM

If the rate of lying in this election cycle has failed to impress a giant group of people, I'm sure the government "failing" would also land with a dull thud of denial.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/07/16 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Sure, you've stockpiled 10,000 rounds of ammunition and some C-4. But I don't think that will solve a whole lot when the country is in khaos (no utilities, no martial law, etc.). Unless you've got a large piece of property (and the manpower to defend it from the hoards) and are really good at farming...


When they run out of ammo and explosives, they can throw Beck Gold Coins at 'em.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 12:28 AM

I'm just baffled that Trump is polling at around 45% of the popular vote. crazy
If you look at all of the crazy stuff he said both in public and in private he really must be some salesman, I have not heard him say one positive or hopeful thing during this entire election.
Ripping people of with his fake university, losing a billion dollars on a Casino(!), not paying any taxes, and just not being knowledgeable in general make it hard for me to believe millions of people want this man as the leader of their country.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by brucat
We're too divided. Maybe what we need is a horrifying failure for the next four years, to unify us behind someone like in the Carter/Reagan election? Bush II and Obama tried, but apparently weren't quite bad enough.

Channeling Rachel Phelps here...

Mike


I would counter that it's in no one's best interest that the government "fail". I doubt seriously that anyone would actually wish that upon their political rival, as my recollection of a failed government is something like Somalia which no one wants.

Sure, you've stockpiled 10,000 rounds of ammunition and some C-4. But I don't think that will solve a whole lot when the country is in khaos (no utilities, no martial law, etc.). Unless you've got a large piece of property (and the manpower to defend it from the hoards) and are really good at farming...



You clearly missed the sarcasm. You need to go watch Major League again.

No one wants a repeat of the gas rationing or any of the other economic horrors of the late 70s. And, we're extremely unlikely to find another Reagan.

Mike
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 03:39 AM

I didn't serve all those years to hand the place to Fascists. I know Iím not the only one who has ever taken an oath that includes ď...against all enemies, foreign and domestic...Ē Call me psychic, but I think Trump and his white nationalist groupies fall into the latter categoryóand when we find out for sure, it is going to be way too late to un-rub this particular genie lamp. So do all of us G.I.s a favor and exercise that Constitutional right to vote. Please. It is perhaps the ultimate form of national service, and just might head off a national nightmare.


Word brother.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 03:44 AM

Glenn Beck Confesses: 'So Much Of What I Used To Believe Was A SHAM' - Ya Think?

Do you think Beck will buy the gold coins back from Chumlee? Stranger things have happened.


There have been too many bizarre events in the past year to keep track of. This election is going to provide material for a whole library worth of books and analyses. And one of the subsections of the collection is going to have to cover the metamorphosis of Glenn Beck.

When the campaign season began Beck was reluctant to choose a candidate. It was an embarrassment of riches with several of Beck's favorite wingnuts in the running. However, as the roster whittled down he eventually decided that Ted Cruz was God's choice for president and Beck took up the Lord's cause.

Unfortunately for God, Cruz was bested by a reality TV game show host. Donald Trump tagged him as Lying' Ted and cast him into the Lake of Fire. Throughout it all, Beck remained firmly opposed to Trump. At every opportunity he blasted The Donald as unbalanced and unfit. It was jarring to see Beck taking a position that was in alignment with many progressives, at least so far as NeverTrump was concerned. But he still wasn't on board with Hillary Clinton.

Nicholas Schmidle of New Yorker magazine has noticed Beck's descent into Bizzaro World as well. He writes that Beck was recently impressed with a speech by Michelle Obama. You know, the wife of the guy that Beck once said had "a deep seated hatred for white people." On his radio radio show Beck described the First Lady's speech as "The most effective political speech I have heard since Ronald Reagan."

Continuing, Beck said that "If youíre a decent human being, those words were dead on." Although you would still have to wonder what Beck knows about being a decent human being. He has spent most of the last decade condemning liberals to hell and prophesying the end of civilization. But according to Scmidle:

"That was the old Beck, he insists: 'I did a lot of freaking out about Barack Obama.' But, he said, 'Obama made me a better man.' He regrets calling the President a racist and counts himself a Black Lives Matter supporter. 'There are things unique to the African-American experience that I cannot relate to,' he said. 'I had to listen to them.'"
Of course, Beck has had revelatory transformations before. There is no more reason to believe that this one is any more sincere than the others. It's often just a scam to attract more media attention. But it is kinda fun. Especially when when he goes after Trump saying that "This guy is dangerously unhinged. And, for all the things people have said about me over the years, I should be able to spot Dangerously Unhinged." That's actually pretty funny, and suggests some measure of self-awareness. As does this:

"So much of what I used to believe was either always a sham or has been made into a sham. Thereís nothing deep."
That may be the truest thing that Beck ever said. He is tacitly admitting the fallacy of his whole career as a demagogic broadcaster. Although he isn't quite admitting that he was responsible for creating the sham.

Time will tell if this incarnation of Beck lasts for more than a couple of ratings periods. But it's gonna be interesting to watch how his fans react to this transformation. We may already have a hint of it as Beck worries about recent death threats he's received from Trump supporters. He's now saying about some of the folks who used to follow him like a prophet that "These people scare the hell out of me." Me too, Glenn. Me too.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 03:47 AM

From Rolling Stone Magazine

But now is the moment for every last American to decide what it truly means to be a citizen. You can be reluctant about Hillary Clinton. You don't even have to vote for her (though I did, without doubt or hesitation).

What you cannot do is vote for Donald Trump and pretend that this is just another election, and he is just another candidate. It is your minimum duty as a citizen not to support a racist, sexist, unqualified, dishonest, corrupt manchild who celebrates everything that's ugly about America and not a single thing that's great about it.

No matter how left out or left behind you feel, voting for Trump is nothing short of a moral failure. It's a vicious act against the human beings, mostly women and people of color, who would suffer miserably under his presidency.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 02:27 PM

I honestly can't believe that one of these nincompoops is going to be our next President.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
From Rolling Stone Magazine


How much of a check do they have to write to settle the slander case they just lost? And how much is the other plaintiff going after them for?

Lets see, Dan Rather, Brian Williams, Rolling Stone, Daily Kos, etc.... They say you can't make this **** up... in their world I guess you can...
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
From Rolling Stone Magazine


How much of a check do they have to write to settle the slander case they just lost? And how much is the other plaintiff going after them for?

Lets see, Dan Rather, Brian Williams, Rolling Stone, Daily Kos, etc.... They say you can't make this **** up... in their world I guess you can...

Is that goat roper bar logic?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 04:01 PM

Is this your immediate future Todd?


I feel betrayed by my Trump-voting extended family. It goes beyond just the fact that Trump is the worst candidate I can imagine. Itís that I have a son with severe autism. Everything in life is a challenge for him. He is near puberty now, and this flood of confusing emotions just makes everything that much more overwhelming to him. He is regressing in school. He has developed such deep obsessive-compulsive behaviors that they affect every aspect of his day. He can barely communicate verbally, and itís hard to understand what heís trying to say even when he does talk as rarely do the string of words make much sense. He canít communicate how he hurts physically or emotionally.

Anything new scares him to death. He has no sense of his own safety or the dangers around him. He is getting bigger and taller. When he panics, itís almost impossible to keep hold of him so he doesnít hurt himself or others. He may run into traffic. He doesnít mean to harm anyone. Deep down he is kind and even silly. The world is just often a terrifying place for him, and I fear this is only going to get harder for him.

We get basically no assistance from local or state disability services. Weíve been on the Medicaid Waiver wait list for years with no end in sight. Frankly, we are getting rather desperate. We are just exhausted. We feel like we are losing. We feel like we are failing him.

Compounding this is that we have a younger son. He alternates between fiercely loving and protecting his older brother to being completely overwhelmed by a life that to him feels really unfair. He often has to play second fiddle to his brother because he has so many needs. It isnít fair. We do whatever we can to make him feel special in his own right and spend focused time with him. But sometimes things blow up, and we have to deal with it. Heís had to grow up so fast. Heís had to see things that are pretty scary. I donít know how someone his age processes his older brother screaming and stomping and banging his head, but it has to be terrifying. We talk about things regularly, but still. Itís so hard.

We get no respite or help. We grab what advice and help we can from professionals, but we can only afford so much of that. We have begged and pleaded. We were told we can only get government assistance for our son right now if we threaten to hurt him.

Trump has threatened to take away all of his education rights.

Trump has threatened to take away what pre-existing condition coverage we currently rely on.

Trumpís plans would destroy any chance of him ever getting a Medicaid Waiver for help now and funding that might let him have independence later.

Trump would leave us and him on our own.

Trumpís plans would destroy his future.

And worst of all, Trump has made it OK to bully and mock my son. Those who support him are saying itís OK, too. They have created a culture in which kids see itís OK to bully. And if youíd ever meet my son, he has so many of the outward, stereotypical behaviors of an autistic child. You might as well paint a big bullseye on his back that says ďbully meĒ. He would have no way to defend himself. He wouldnít even understand what is going on. I am terrified every day for him.

The biggest stab in the back are all the Trump supporters in my family who say they love our son. They know how desperate things are for him and for us. They know what Trump has done. They know what his policies will mean to my son and to our family. They know it endangers his present and his future. And yet, they voted for him anyway.

I feel utterly betrayed.

I never expected them to vote for Hillary. That would have been a bridge too far. But they could have left it blank or written in one of the uncles or something. Anything but this.

For his whole life, they have been about the only lifeline we have. In emergencies, they have helped us many, many times. Honestly, they are the only semblance of a support system we have if things go to pieces.

Our younger son adores them. He knows we like Clinton, so like many kids he likes who his parents like. Iíve talked with him a lot about how government works and how sacred voting is and how so many have sacrificed so that we might have that freedom to vote. Weíve talked about the Constitution and Amendments, suffrage and slavery, and so much of what I want my child to grow up knowing about. I want him to believe in our democracy. I want him to believe it works.

I havenít told him a thing about why Trump is a cruel, heartless **** because heís a brilliant kid for his age. He will know the people he loves voted for Trump, the man who mocked his brother and all who have certain challenges, and it will break his heart. But someday he will learn. I canít keep him from knowing forever. Someday his heart will break. Itís a terrible thing to suddenly learn the people you love arenít who you thought they were.

No matter what happens tomorrow, my family will be left with broken pieces that we might never be able to put together again. We have always put family before differences - and believe me weíve had lots of differences - but this is different. This is saying that my son doesnít deserve respect, that he is a second-class citizen, that he doesnít deserve a chance at a better future, that my family doesnít deserve help. I feel like we no longer matter.

Yes, this election has divided America in ways that might take us a long time to recover from. But it has also crushed families in ways we may never recover from. I want to believe there is a way forward. I want to believe there is a way to heal all the wounds that have been inflicted. But right now I canít.

Right now, I am simply heartbroken.
Posted By: hobie1616

Donald Trump Is A Garbage Fire - 11/08/16 04:10 PM

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Donald Trump Is A Garbage Fire - 11/08/16 04:34 PM

Make sure Trump stays in his 757.


He also complained, as he often does, of Obamaís use of the Boeing 747 that is primarily used as Air Force One and how wasteful it is. Trump over the years and over this campaign has made it clear how fond he is of his own Boeing 757. In an interview with Rolling Stone last year, he even ― incorrectly ― claimed it was larger than Air Force One.

757-300 Length 178 ft 8 in (54.47 m) Wingspan 124 ft 10 in (38.05 m)
747-200B Length 231 ft 10 in (70.6 m) Wingspan 195 ft 8 in (59.6 m)

The New York Times reported this week that seeing the much larger aircraft parked near his own in Miami angered Trump to the point of his insisting on an insulting tweet, which his press aide softened before hitting send.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Donald Trump Is A Garbage Fire - 11/08/16 05:44 PM

Get Trump a beer to cry in.

ďLet me tell you,Ē he said, dismissing supporters who have credited him with leading a movement win or lose,ĒIf I donít win, I will consider it a tremendous waste of time, energy, and money.Ē he said before falsely claiming that he will have spent more than $100 million of his own money on his campaign.

Trump then repeated his false claim that he will have spent more than $100 million of his own money on his campaign. But a late October Federal Election Commission filing showed Trump was still $40 million short of that figure.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Donald Trump Is A Garbage Fire - 11/08/16 05:46 PM

Did you have "the talk" yet Todd? It may be too late.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: northsea junkie

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616


Right now, I am simply heartbroken.


I've red your open and personal story and to be honest you broke my heart too.

I know there are people who have sometimes so much circumstances and life-events working against them.
But reading your story here on the forum, shocks me deeply and makes me desperately searching for comforting words.

But I can't find them, they are not there.

I can only say (but that's easy for me as an outstander) try not to blame your family too much. I completely share your feelings of treason.
But try to be honest to them and show your feeling to them on a non-accusing way. Maybe you all can still find each other...

I wish you and your family all the strenght and courage which you need these coming days.

Know that via this forum, there are people on the other side of the ocean which have taken you and your family in their heart.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by northsea junkie


I've read your open and personal story and to be honest you broke my heart too.


I'm sorry Ronald. The story was posted on another forum I follow. It seemed appropriate for this one. I'll add your response to the other forum's replies.

I've got my own story about my step-son who was born with a laundry list of problems. He's an adult now but my wife and I worry about his support system and whether it will still be there if Trump wins.

Thank you for your heart felt reply.
Posted By: northsea junkie

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 08:59 PM

o.k. I missed the metaphorical quality of your story.

This is internet......

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/08/16 10:21 PM

I just got back from the only polling place in West Maui. In the years I've live here it's been a ghost town. West Maui is known for having the worst turnout in the state. Not this year.

The left turn lane was backed up at least four light cycles. I did an illegal left turn through the police station. It took ten minutes to get to the first table where they verify you're legal. Another ten minutes to get to where they hand out the ballots. And still another ten minutes to get a booth.

While waiting for a booth I commented to a poll worker that it appeared to be a good turnout. He replied, "I've been doing this for forty years. I've never seen it like this." And that's with a record 24,000 absentee and early voting island wide.

It looks like cranks bring out the vote.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Donald Trump Is A Garbage Fire - 11/09/16 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Did you have "the talk" yet Todd? It may be too late.

[Linked Image]


The Trump women probably had "the talk" but it doesn't hurt to confirm they were listening.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Bob_Curry

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 08:53 AM

TRUMP WINS!!!!!! TRUMP WINS!!!!!!

I was a deplorable until it became cool!!
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bob_Curry
TRUMP WINS!!!!!! TRUMP WINS!!!!!!

I was a deplorable until it became cool!!


You're still deplorable Bob, just because something becomes mainstream doesn't change what it is. Being a bigot will never be cool.
Posted By: catman

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bob_Curry
TRUMP WINS!!!!!! TRUMP WINS!!!!!!

I was a deplorable until it became cool!!


+1
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
Doesn't matter which one wins, we've all already lost.
Mike


...and the losing continues. How's your 401k looking this morning? Why does the "businessman" win, and the markets panic? We're screwed...

Just so you're not confused, I'm thrilled that Hillary lost, just wish we had a better option than Trump.

I just hope we're not looking at a rematch in four years, or worse (possibly more likely), Elizabeth Warren poking her nose into the ring.

Oh, and just when I thought I couldn't possibly have less respect for Hillary, she hides away and doesn't publicly concede. After mocking Trump when he said he'd contest a close loss. What a piece of work.

Mike
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 04:02 PM




[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 05:06 PM

Congratulations to President-Elect Gregory Ammas Stillson. Where was Johnny Smith when we needed him?
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
Originally Posted by brucat
Doesn't matter which one wins, we've all already lost.
Mike


...and the losing continues. How's your 401k looking this morning? Why does the "businessman" win, and the markets panic? We're screwed...

Just so you're not confused, I'm thrilled that Hillary lost, just wish we had a better option than Trump.

I just hope we're not looking at a rematch in four years, or worse (possibly more likely), Elizabeth Warren poking her nose into the ring.

Oh, and just when I thought I couldn't possibly have less respect for Hillary, she hides away and doesn't publicly concede. After mocking Trump when he said he'd contest a close loss. What a piece of work.

Mike


whut? She conceded with a phone call to Trump at 2:30am and gave a gracious unifying speech this afternoon. Not sure where the problem is.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 06:26 PM

Hopefully, you're kidding Jake.

She didn't publicly concede and congratulate her opponent until the next day. That's pretty weak, at the very least for the untold thousands of people who worked on her campaign.

Normally, the loser publicly concedes before the winner accepts.

Maybe she was just getting a head start on prepping for the rematch.

Mike
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 06:58 PM

Quote
...and the losing continues. How's your 401k looking this morning? Why does the "businessman" win, and the markets panic? We're screwed...


You sound a bit like the NYT blathering fool, Ex-Enron advisor Paul Krugman (I know, only incidentally - you're not a fool Mike) --
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...Body&action=click&pgtype=article

"Still, I guess people want an answer: If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is never."

Dow Jones Industrial Average
INDEXDJX: .DJI - Nov 9, 1:57 PM EST
18,548.97Price increase216.23 (1.18%)

S&P 500 Index
INDEXCBOE: .INX - Nov 9, 1:57 PM EST
2,160.34Price increase20.78 (0.97%)

Index Value Change Net / %
NASDAQ 5231.43
37.94 ▲ 0.73%


Also, the Clinton Foundation issued a brief statement regarding the election results: "No Refunds"
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
Hopefully, you're kidding Jake.

She didn't publicly concede and congratulate her opponent until the next day. That's pretty weak, at the very least for the untold thousands of people who worked on her campaign.

Normally, the loser publicly concedes before the winner accepts.

Maybe she was just getting a head start on prepping for the rematch.

Mike


Talk about splitting hairs. Trump had ALREADY filed lawsuits to contest elements of the election before it practically began and you're upset because Clinton delayed making her public speech until the next morning? She didn't deny anything, didn't discount the result, she didn't do anything but make a positive, rebuilding, concession speech. I'm pretty sure you would find a way to be upset about anything she did because if that riles you up, wow.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by brucat
Hopefully, you're kidding Jake.

She didn't publicly concede and congratulate her opponent until the next day. That's pretty weak, at the very least for the untold thousands of people who worked on her campaign.

Normally, the loser publicly concedes before the winner accepts.

Maybe she was just getting a head start on prepping for the rematch.

Mike


Talk about splitting hairs. Trump had ALREADY filed lawsuits to contest elements of the election before it practically began and you're upset because Clinton delayed making her public speech until the next morning? She didn't deny anything, didn't discount the result, she didn't do anything but make a positive, rebuilding, concession speech. I'm pretty sure you would find a way to be upset about anything she did because if that riles you up, wow.


So I did a little research and you're right, the concession speech usually precedes the victory speech. Typically, however, the victory speech waits until the concession speech takes place and usually falls about an hour later. For instance, in 2004, Kerry waited until late into the next day in order to contest a close vote in Ohio. He delivered his concession speech at 3pm and W gave his victory speech an hour later. No concession speeches have take place after 1am since 1992 so, at some point, you have to wonder if it's just too late at 3am and might as well wait until the next morning...but whatever, man..I'm still not sure how that timing affects anything. Maybe we ask why Donald went ahead and did his victory speech before the concession but, while I can guess at what his opinion might have been on the topic, I really don't care. It's over, I personally felt like the speeches and outreach by everyone involved was gracious and healing and I don't see how the minutia of the timing affects any single important thing.

I'm just glad the hate filled speech has been given a rest for the moment.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 08:52 PM

As the OP,

I want to Thank Obama and The Clintons,

Without their disaster and corruption,
there is NO Way in Hell Trump would have ever won!

People are fed up with the BS- ya think?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jake


Talk about splitting hairs. Trump had ALREADY filed lawsuits to contest elements of the election before it practically began...


Wait until Trump hits Federal Court November 28. It should be quite a show.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:06 PM

I work directly on international trade and business development deals. To say first world nations are "concerned" is an understatement.

Not that they are predicting clamity; rather "uncertainty" which in the short term is much more disastrous. Several multi-national deals which would actually (gasp) create jobs (or at least wealth - unfortunately, not much of my own) have been on hold since the rumors of Brexit. Now this train-wreck of an election...

But now that part of the uncertainty is dealt with (we have a president-elect), the cabinet appointments will be the next trigger. Foreign trade policy is much more time consuming to unwravel, which might allow markets to recover somewhat.

Our next move on foreign policy (do we shift alliances?) will affect a great number of moving parts (namely, foreign investment & trade) with certain economies (euro, asian, and even indian or eastern euro).

What has this to do with Joe the Plumber? Pretty much nothing. Joe likely doesn't have retirement savings or investments, and people's toilets will still clog regardless of their 401(k) balance.

Joe's challenge toward middle class growth will be his chops (or lack thereof) to grow his business. Joe can only fix so many pipes in one day. Business acumen, marketing skill, and staff development are his keys to success. Can he excel? The free-market will tell.

A business mentor once shared that she was happy to pay taxes because it meant that the company had earned money. She built a two person business into a 600 employee staffing firm and retired at 50 with a 85' motoryacht as a retirement gift. Last I heard she was in the Med. enjoying her late 60's.

I also knew several business competitors that never got past a meager staff.

What was her edge? It's not like that industry is particle physics.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:07 PM

She did call Trump. The problem is that she was too chicken **** to address all her supporters at the end. If I was her supporter and waited till 3am for final results and was told by someone else that we lost, go home. I would be PISSED. They deserved more than that.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
She did call Trump. The problem is that she was too chicken **** to address all her supporters at the end. If I was her supporter and waited till 3am for final results and was told by someone else that we lost, go home. I would be PISSED. They deserved more than that.


Quite possibly so, and I'd share your feeling on that. But having your entire future crushed before your eyes and then having to stand up and present your scabbard to the victor while announcing to the masses that you're back to square one takes a little focus.

I would probably have waited that long to deliver my concession speech, too. If only to have enough composure to NOT drop the "F" bomb during my talk smile
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jake


I'm just glad the hate filled speech has been given a rest for the moment.


Did you listen to Clinon's concession speech? Sounded to me like she couldn't put it down and had to make one last stab at Trump...

In looking at the riots in Seattle and Berkeley... I think the Hate is just started.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:23 PM

So First World- several peoples post election comments
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:27 PM

now that the fog has cleared a bit, I didn't see more than maybe 6 younger voters (under 30) yesterday at my polling station. We logged over 1,400 voters.

I guess millennial apathy can be a benefit sometimes... To paraphrase Ding "Old angry dudes rule!"
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:56 PM

The markets rebounded after some serious futures drops overnight. And yes, I know that it was fueled by uncertainty if nothing else.

You guys mainly missed my point: they both suck, and we're the ultimate losers. Admittedly, I guess I spewed more disgust in Hillary's direction, sorry if that misled you.

My only hope is that they start working collaboratively in DC, but I'm not going to hold my breath (THAT would be foolish...).

Mike
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 09:59 PM

The common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
---H.L. Mencken

Maybe the only way for Americans to really, truly understand how toxic, wrong-headed and futile Trumpís policies are is to let him provide proof of concept. That is, to give us Trumpism, good and hard. Maybe the only way to prove that Trump canít bring back manufacturing jobs, or coal jobs, or other jobs displaced by technology and productivity gains, is to let him try to do so through his ill-advised tariffs.

With Republicans dominating both houses of Congress, Trump should have little trouble transforming his many harebrained, math-challenged policy schemes into law, assuming heís ever able to commit them to paper. With time, his economically anxious followers will realize that even after the swamp is drained and the bums thrown out, tough-talking Trump is still unable to improve their economic standing. When his policies turn out to be a bust, he'll blame the results on President Obama or other political enemies, or distrusted ethnic groups. There is so many to be used as scapegoats. Or, he may deny the negative outcomes entirely given that he and his followers are prone to producing their own sets of facts and data.

So, good luck dummies. Pretend you've lived in Kansas the last few years and love to keep bending over. BOHICA!
Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 10:03 PM

I watched her speech today, I thought it was plenty gracious and appropriate given the situation.

I was expecting them to give their supporters something last night, and I think I would have been disappointed had I been at her HQ. However it was pretty late to try to address the nation. Not too many of the people I spoke with today stayed up till 3am, a decision I regret today.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/09/16 11:11 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 02:21 AM

OK, actions on the streets now, and who is the deplorable crowd?
Posted By: catman

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Bob_Curry
TRUMP WINS!!!!!! TRUMP WINS!!!!!!

I was a deplorable until it became cool!!




You're still deplorable Bob, just because something becomes mainstream doesn't change what it is. Being a bigot will never be cool.


Bigot, "a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions."

Of course you tolerate everyone and everything, right?
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
now that the fog has cleared a bit, I didn't see more than maybe 6 younger voters (under 30) yesterday at my polling station. We logged over 1,400 voters.

I guess millennial apathy can be a benefit sometimes... To paraphrase Ding "Old angry dudes rule!"


Dude, you live in Naples that's where people go to die. Of course there wasn't any millennial's there!
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by catman
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Bob_Curry
TRUMP WINS!!!!!! TRUMP WINS!!!!!!

I was a deplorable until it became cool!!




You're still deplorable Bob, just because something becomes mainstream doesn't change what it is. Being a bigot will never be cool.


Bigot, "a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions."

Of course you tolerate everyone and everything, right?


You got me, I'm intolerant of bigotry! Never thought a lot of you but I couldn't put my finger on it, it makes sense now.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 02:48 PM

Garrison Keillor checks in:

So he won. The nation takes a deep breath. Raw ego and proud illiteracy have won out, and a severely learning-disabled man with a real character problem will be president. We are so exhausted from thinking about this election, millions of people will take up leaf-raking and garage cleaning with intense pleasure. We liberal elitists are wrecks. The Trumpers had a whale of a good time, waving their signs, jeering at the media, beating up protesters, chanting ďLock her upĒ ó we elitists just stood and clapped. Nobody chanted ďStronger Together.Ē It just doesnít chant.

The Trumpers never expected their guy to actually win the thing, and thatís their problem now. They wanted only to whoop and yell, boo at the H-word, wear profane T-shirts, maybe grab a crotch or two, jump in the RV with a couple of six-packs and go out and shoot some spotted owls. It was pleasure enough for them just to know that they were driving us wild with dismay ó by ďus,Ē I mean librarians, childrenís authors, yoga practitioners, Unitarians, bird-watchers, people who make their own pasta, opera-goers, the grammar police, people who keep books on their shelves, that bunch. The Trumpers exulted in knowing we were tearing our hair out. They had our number, like a bratty kid who knows exactly how to make you grit your teeth and froth at the mouth.

Alas for the Trump voters, the disasters he will bring on this country will fall more heavily on them than anyone else. The uneducated white males who elected him are the vulnerable ones, and they will not like what happens next.

To all the patronizing B.S. weíve read about Trump expressing the white working-classís displacement and loss of the American Dream, I say, ďFeh!Ē ó go put your head under cold water. Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity. America is still the land where the waitressís kids can grow up to become physicists and novelists and pediatricians, but it helps a lot if the waitress and her husband encourage good habits and the ambition to use your God-given talents and the kids arenít plugged into electronics day and night. Whooping it up for the candidate of cruelty and ignorance does less than nothing for your kids.

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids, and we Democrats can go for a long , brisk walk and smell the roses.

I like Republicans. I used to spend Sunday afternoons with a bunch of them, drinking Scotch and soda and trying to care about NFL football. It was fun. I tried to think like them. (Life is what you make it. People are people. When the going gets tough, tough noogies.) But I came back to liberal elitism.

Donít be cruel. Elvis said it, and itís true. We all experienced cruelty back in our playground days ó boys who beat up on the timid, girls who made fun of the homely and naive ó and most of us, to our shame, went along with it, afraid to defend the victims lest we become one of them. But by your 20s, you should be done with cruelty. Mr. Trump was the cruelest candidate since George Wallace. How he won on fear and bile is for political pathologists to study. The country is already tired of his noise, even his own voters. He is likely to become the most intensely disliked president since Herbert Hoover. His children will carry the burden of his name. He will never be happy in his own skin. But the damage he will do to our country ó who knows? His supporters voted for change, and boy, are they going to get it.

Back to real life. I went up to my home town the other day and ran into my gym teacher, Stan Nelson, looking good at 96. He commanded a landing craft at Normandy on June 6, 1944, and never said a word about it back then, just made us do chin-ups whether we wanted to or not. I saw my biology teacher Lyle Bradley, a Marine pilot in the Korean War, still going bird-watching in his 90s. I was not a good student then, but I am studying both of them now. They have seen it all and are still optimistic. The past year of politics has taught us absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. The future is scary. Let the uneducated have their day. I am now going to pay more attention to teachers.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 04:05 PM

David Horsey checks in:

There is a good reason that Donald Trump failed to win the endorsement of a single serious newspaper (the Ku Klux Klan ďCrusaderĒ does not count). It is not because the press is uniformly liberal; there were plenty of traditionally Republican and conservative editorial boards that could not bring themselves to support Trump. It is because people who work on newspapers deal in facts, and the fact is that the president-elect is woefully unprepared for the office he has won.

That is the core reason I have been so critical of Trump and will continue to be.

This is not a knee-jerk aversion to any and all Republicans (I used to be one myself). If George H.W. Bush had beaten Bill Clinton back in 1992, I would not have worried that the country was in dangerous hands. Bush the elder, besides being a complete gentleman, was a seasoned practitioner of statecraft. If Sen. John McCain had won in 2008 or Mitt Romney in 2012, I would have been disappointed, but I would not have thought the election of either man would be perilous for us all (although having Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the presidency would not have been reassuring).

It is Trump who is uniquely scary, not because he is a Republican and not because of his personal demerits. The nation can survive a president with a record of using women as sexual toys (Trump will not be the first). The nation can survive a president who is rude and bullying. The nation can even survive a con man. But it will be much harder to steer clear of harm with a president who seems to have no idea how little he really knows about very important things.

For all his experience as a businessman, his ideas about economics are neanderthal. Those who actually understand the intricacies of the global market fear he will provoke a disastrous trade war if he follows through on his threats to tear up trade deals and slap high taxes on imports.

His fantastical promises to bring back jobs in the coal mines and manufacturing plants were further proof of his dim-bulbed grasp of economic realities. Yes, those promises raised hopes and won him votes in the Rust Belt states ó and probably won him the election. But he was fooling those voters and probably fooling himself. Global competition is the force that diminished the old industries and no new trade deal will change that reality. Manufacturing may well rebound in this country, but it will be built on robots and automation. The high numbers of jobs that once provided a middle-class lifestyle for men without a college degree will never come back.

In the final days of the campaign, Trump repeatedly mocked U.S. military leaders for announcing in advance their plans to retake regions of Iraq held by Islamic State militants. ďWhatever happened to the element of surprise?Ē Trump asked repeatedly, as if war were a game of hide-and-seek. Letting Islamic State leaders know the attack was coming gave them a chance to run away, Trump said. Military strategists responded by pointing out that Islamic State commanders on the run actually made much better targets and that was just one of several good reasons to broadcast intentions.

Trump is no military genius, although he has famously claimed to know more than the generals. If he carries that delusion with him into the White House, it could lead to catastrophe. So could his failure to understand the immense value of the NATO alliance. So could his simple-minded admiration of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Low-information voters have given us a low-information president. Trumpís lack of sophistication and his apparent disinterest in doing the hard work it takes to understand the complexities of economics, international relations and military strategy is the most alarming aspect of his looming presidency. His character flaws and reactionary tendencies are hardly insignificant, but his willful ignorance of vital knowledge is what may make him the worldís most dangerous man.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by catman
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Bob_Curry
TRUMP WINS!!!!!! TRUMP WINS!!!!!!

I was a deplorable until it became cool!!




You're still deplorable Bob, just because something becomes mainstream doesn't change what it is. Being a bigot will never be cool.


Bigot, "a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions."

Of course you tolerate everyone and everything, right?


You got me, I'm intolerant of bigotry! Never thought a lot of you but I couldn't put my finger on it, it makes sense now.



I always thought it was an odd stance to take the moral high ground. "I'm super tolerant, but not of you because you're intolerant of ___________"

George Carlin had the best line about political correctness. I've used it a few times. ďPolitical correctness is Americaís newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control peopleís language with strict codes and rigid rules. Iím not sure thatís the way to fight discrimination. Iím not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.Ē


On my front, if you hate me because I'm part towel head, or part kraut, or part square head, or part whatever, good for you! Everyone needs something.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/10/16 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by brucat

You guys mainly missed my point: they both suck, and we're the ultimate losers.


I got you on that point...

As much as I would like to see what a "woman" president could do, I didn't really want THAT woman up on the podium. Someone suggested Oprah could get the votes and sweep an election... That gave me pause...

But she could probably pay off the deficit with her checkbook... "You get a tax break, You get a tax break, You get a tax break....."
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 03:48 AM

Aaron Sorkin checks in:

As this is a long, well written letter Todd. You may have trouble reading it to the end. Here's some key words and phrases.

incompetent pig, The Klan won last night, White nationalists, Sexists, racists and buffoons, misogynistic shitheads, Abject dumbness was glamorized, Donald Trumpís fans are not fans of Jews. Weíre not powerless and weíre not voiceless. Our darkest days have alwaysóalwaysóbeen followed by our finest hours.

There's a lot more Todd. See if you can get through to the end. Jolt Cola might help.


Sorkin Girls,

Well the world changed late last night in a way I couldnít protect us from. Thatís a terrible feeling for a father. I wonít sugarcoat itóthis is truly horrible. Itís hardly the first time my candidate didnít win (in fact itís the sixth time) but it is the first time that a thoroughly incompetent pig with dangerous ideas, a serious psychiatric disorder, no knowledge of the world and no curiosity to learn has.

And it wasnít just Donald Trump who won last nightóit was his supporters too. The Klan won last night. White nationalists. Sexists, racists and buffoons. Angry young white men who think rap music and Cinco de Mayo are a threat to their way of life (or are the reason for their way of life) have been given cause to celebrate. Men who have no right to call themselves that and who think that women who aspire to more than looking hot are shrill, ugly, and otherwise worthy of our scorn rather than our admiration struck a blow for misogynistic shitheads everywhere. Hate was given hope. Abject dumbness was glamorized as being ďthe fresh voice of an outsiderĒ whoís going to ďshake things up.Ē (Did anyone bother to ask how? Is he going to re-arrange the chairs in the Roosevelt Room?) For the next four years, the President of the United States, the same office held by Washington and Jefferson, Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt, F.D.R., J.F.K. and Barack Obama, will be held by a man-boy whoíll spend his hours exacting Twitter vengeance against all who criticize him (and those numbers will be legion). Weíve embarrassed ourselves in front of our children and the world.

And the world took no time to react. The Dow futures dropped 700 points overnight. Economists are predicting a deep and prolonged recession. Our NATO allies are in a state of legitimate fear. And speaking of fear, Muslim-Americans, Mexican-Americans and African-Americans are shaking in their shoes. And weíd be right to note that many of Donald Trumpís fans are not fans of Jews. On the other hand, there is a party going on at ISIS headquarters. What wouldnít we give to trade this small fraction of a man for Richard Nixon right now?

So what do we do?

First of all, we remember that weíre not alone. A hundred million people in America and a billion more around the world feel exactly the same way we do.

Second, we get out of bed. The Trumpsters want to see people like us (Jewish, ďcoastal elites,Ē educated, socially progressive, HollywoodÖ) sobbing and wailing and talking about moving to Canada. I wonít give them that and neither will you. Hereís what weíll doÖ

Öweíll ****ing fight. (Roxy, thereís a time for this kind of language and itís now.) Weíre not powerless and weíre not voiceless. We donít have majorities in the House or Senate but we do have representatives there. Itís also good to remember that most members of Trumpís own party feel exactly the same way about him that we do. We make sure that the people we sent to Washingtonóincluding Kamala Harrisótake our strength with them and never take a day off.

We get involved. We do what we can to fight injustice anywhere we see itówhether itís writing a check or rolling up our sleeves. Our family is fairly insulated from the effects of a Trump presidency so we fight for the families that arenít. We fight for a woman to keep her right to choose. We fight for the First Amendment and we fight mostly for equalityónot for a guarantee of equal outcomes but for equal opportunities. We stand up.

America didnít stop being America last night and we didnít stop being Americans and hereís the thing about Americans: Our darkest days have alwaysóalwaysóbeen followed by our finest hours.

Roxy, I know my predictions have let you down in the past, but personally, I donít think this guy can make it a year without committing an impeachable crime. If he does manage to be a douche nozzle without breaking the law for four years, weíll make it through those four years. And three years from now weíll fight like hell for our candidate and weíll win and theyíll lose and this time theyíll lose for good. Honey, itíll be your first vote.

The battle isnít over, itís just begun. Grandpa fought in World War II and when he came home this country handed him an opportunity to make a great life for his family. I will not hand his granddaughter a country shaped by hateful and stupid men. Your tears last night woke me up, and Iíll never go to sleep on you again.

Love,

Dad
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 06:20 AM

No surprise here.

From the LA Times...

One of the largest Ku Klux Klan groups in the country has announced a parade to celebrate President-elect Donald Trump's win.

The Loyal White Knights of Pelham, N.C., says on its website that its parade will take place on Dec. 3.

"TRUMP = TRUMP'S RACE UNITED MY PEOPLE," says the website's front page.

No time or location for the event is listed, and a phone call to the number on its website was not returned.

The group has between 150 and 200 members and is "perhaps the most active Klan group in the United States today," according to the Anti-Defamation League. Last year, it was part of a South Carolina protest against the Confederate flag's removal from the state Capitol.

Several Klan groups endorsed Trump. Well-known former Klan leader David Duke, who on Tuesday lost a Senate bid in Louisiana, was also a vocal supporter.

Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 04:29 PM

The election is over.

It is Trump for the next four (8 possibly) years. Interesting times, and I hope they will be good.

Mike. Time to move on. The current emotional and quite hateful displays of childish rage is plain pointless.


Norwegian politicians are already sending ouvertures of friendship and cooperation to the new administration - while looking at how to increase the national defense budget..




Again - interesting times..
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 05:40 PM

David Horsey checks in:

[Linked Image]

Iím sure thousands of bottles of Budweiser will be raised tonight in those white, working-class neighborhoods of the upper Midwest that put Donald Trump over the top in the electoral college. You folks should enjoy your moment and donít trouble yourselves with the thought that plenty of celebratory champagne is being poured in corporate board rooms, country clubs and in the spacious mansions of hedge fund managers.

Thanks to your votes, Mr. and Mrs. White Working Class, all those rich people will soon get a massive tax increase and relief from the environmental regulations that have kept them from polluting your air and water and from the financial oversight that has restrained them from milking every last penny from their employees and the victims of their big-money schemes.

Yes, congratulations. At the same moment you elected a billionaire who claimed he would drain the special interest ďswampĒ in Washington, you kept in power insiders such as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, one of the biggest snakes in the swamp, plus all the other Republicans in Congress who have fought to keep the mighty flow of corporate dollars streaming in.

You think you have struck a blow against the ďelitesĒ on the coasts who look down on ďreal AmericansĒ in the heartland. You say you have been forgotten or misunderstood by the powers that be. That may be true. But I must say that those of you who act as if you are the only ones in the country who work hard, care for your families and love your country are pretty damn elitist, as well.

I look around at my friends and neighbors here on the West Coast and I see lots of patriotic people who put in long hours of labor to put food on the table and put their kids through school.

There is Keith, a guy with whom I recently got acquainted when we discovered our common affinity for good drinks, good ribs and good jazz. Keith is a muscular black man who would likely be subject to unfair and unfriendly scrutiny from the local sheriff if he showed up in a small Midwestern town, but forget the stereotype. Keith had a career in the Marines before taking a job managing security for Hollywood celebrities. In his free time, he works to help the homeless in downtown Los Angeles.

There is the Korean family that runs the laundry down the street from my apartment who never seem to take a vacation or even a day off. There are the Latino men I see laboring every day in the Southern California heat cutting lawns and repairing houses. There are the men of every race I pass by on my way to work who are hauling steel, handling jackhammers, driving trucks and raising girders as they build new subway lines and raise up towering skyscrapers.

And there are my colleagues in the newsroom, both the seasoned veterans of the news business and the charged-up millennials. Thereís nothing elite about them, unless being able to spell and use proper grammar are now elite attributes. The men and women around me are working harder than ever for wages that are not rising in an industry threatened by rapid change. Sound familiar?

Most of us here do not live in Beverly Hills. We live in more modest places such as Pasadena, East Los Angeles, Inglewood and Long Beach. Of course, the working class here is a lot more brown than where you might live. They sweat just as hard, though, and put in long hours just like you ó maybe longer, and maybe for less money. But you have not done them a favor by electing a guy who threatens to start a trade war based on an illusion. The illusion is that if America cuts itself off from the global market, all those manufacturing jobs your fathers once had will come flooding back. It wonít happen. The robots have taken over the assembly lines. But what a disruption in trade would do is shut down the West Coast ports and, according to expert estimates, kill more than 600,000 working-class jobs in California.

I know you didnít think about that sort of effect when you cast your protest vote to Make America Great Again, but what exactly were you thinking? Whenever one of you was interviewed by a TV reporter all I heard was you parroting the vague generalities being spouted by your candidate: America doesnít win anymore; we need a wall to keep out immigrants; political correctness sucks.

I didnít hear any of you say you were happy with the longer droughts, bigger storms and more vicious wildfires that are devastating farms, ranches and rural communities. But your new president has promised to rip up the international treaty that might mitigate some of the extreme weather caused by climate change.

I didnít hear any of you say you were tired of the peace and order created by the NATO alliance and would rather have a cozier relationship with the Russians. But you just elected a man who has denigrated NATO and has warm and fuzzy feelings about Vladimir Putin.

I did hear plenty of you say you hated big government, but is that because you are someone who got fined by the EPA because your industrial plant was poisoning a river? Or because you are a rancher who doesnít want to pay grazing fees when you exploit publicly owned land? Or because you are a farmer who doesnít want to admit that government price supports are what keep your business viable?

Does your hatred of government mean you voted for more pollution? With your vote, were you demanding that big banks be set free to run the economy into the ground? Were you eager for less consumer protection? Did you insist that more of the tax burden be put on average Americans and less of it on the super-rich? I hope those are the things you wanted because that is what you will get from a Republican Congress and a Republican president.

Do I sound angry? That is because I am. Iím mad because your misguided hissy fit is messing with the country I love. I am as much a patriot as you are. I choke up when I visit the Lincoln Memorial or the graves of the Kennedys. I love the flag and do not cringe from the Pledge of Allegiance. When I ride a horse across open country, I feel a link with all my ancestors ó the first of whom arrived on the Maryland shore in the 1640s. Those family members who came before me slowly made their way West, generation after generation, until they finally found a home within sight of the Pacific. I am about as ďrealĒ an American as you can get.

But I am fed up with those of you who think there is only one way to be American. Some of the truest Americans I have met are among those whose ancestors came here in slave ships. Some of the Americans who give me the most hope are the children of parents who slipped across the border in search of a better life; young dreamers working hard for an education and a chance to contribute to our society. Some of the Americans I admire the most are like my friend Jack who left the narrow-mindedness of his home state and came West to Los Angeles, where he met and married the man he loved. America is great because it has room for all these people and more.

If, ultimately, the real reason you voted for Trump was because he promised to start shutting doors that have been opened for people who do not fit a narrow definition of American, you should understand you are in for a fight. Itís now my turn to say it: I want my country back.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
The election is over.

It is Trump for the next four (8 possibly) years. Interesting times, and I hope they will be good.

Mike. Time to move on. The current emotional and quite hateful displays of childish rage is plain pointless.


Norwegian politicians are already sending ouvertures of friendship and cooperation to the new administration - while looking at how to increase the national defense budget..




Again - interesting times..

Sorry brah, it is time to fight. Read the above by Horsey. I'll go with his closing, "I want my country back."
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616

Sorry brah, it is time to fight.


That's right, let the fight begin... has one asking; who are the real hate mongers here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=GfJenokrmb4

Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen


Mike. Time to move on. The current emotional and quite hateful displays of childish rage is plain pointless.


Let him rage on, it is all he has in life.. He is the textbook example of _________________
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 07:11 PM

Well Mike, good luck with that.

I dont see how this will improve anything at all for democrats or liberals though. Quite the opposite really, in my opinion.

Well well.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616

Sorry brah, it is time to fight.


That's right, let the fight begin... has one asking; who are the real hate mongers here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=GfJenokrmb4


I'll see your high schoolers and raise you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9amHnjkM44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVvb5_rMGyY Political combat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeYTpzz6pxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFqW_2G-wqM Why would you wear the hat Kunt-n-Paste?

Got an answer yet Schwartz?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 10:31 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^

Inciting violence to swing an election... now now Mikie... The good Doktor Geobbels would be very proud of DNC....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY

Just think, wouldn't it have been a total shocker if Hillary got elected and a week after the inauguration, the US Capitol blew up, the republicans get blamed, and marshal law is declared... and place like Manzanar, Mendoka, Tuel River, and Toaz start popping back up...

Of course we wouldn't call them concentration camps... now would we? More so something in the lines of Gestalt Centers.... Better brush of your Koffka and KŲhler text there Mikie... the party needs you now more than ever....







Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
^^^^^^^^^^^

Inciting violence to swing an election... now now Mikie... The good Doktar Geobbels would be very proud of DNC....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY


Donald Trump's victory followed by wave of hate crime attacks

In Los Angeles, hate crimes against Latinos had increased by 69 percent

Robbery of a Muslim student at San Diego State University by two men who ďmade comments about President-elect Donald Trump and the Muslim communityĒ, before stealing her purse, rucksack and car.
______________

Maha Abdul Gawad said she was shopping in a local Wallmart on Wednesday when another woman approached, pulled off her hijab and said: ďThis is not allowed anymore, so go hang yourself with it around your neck not on your head.Ē
____________

ďWe have two kids wearing Trump shirts pull a hijab off a Muslim girl today at school. OSS [out-of-school suspension] for five days. ďWhen asked why? ĎBecause sheís about to get kicked out anyway and we won.íĒ
________________

A woman in Delaware described overhearing four white men near her at a petrol station discussing Mr Trumpís victory and ďhow theyíre glad they wonít have to deal with n*****s much longerĒ.

ďOne walked over to me and said Ďhow scared are you, you black b****? I should just kill you right now, youíre a waste of airí,Ē she wrote.

ďThen another guy steps forward and shows me his firearm. He says: ĎYouíre lucky thereís witnesses or else Iíd shoot you right here.í I have called the police.Ē
__________________

Natasha, a student from the Christian Baylor University in Texas, said she was walking home from a class when a man shoved her off the pavement.

ďHe said Ďno n*****s allowed on the sidewalkí. I was shocked, I had no words,Ē she said in a video posted on social media.

ďAnother guy said Ďdude, what are you doing? Thatís not coolí. The guy said: ĎIím just trying to Make America Great Againí.Ē
_________________

ďAs they sped their truck up on me, they rolled their window down and yelled: ĎF*** you n***** b****,Ē she wrote.

ďTrump is going to deport you back to Africa'. In my 33 years of live, Iíve never had blatant racism shown to me than in that moment.Ē
___________________

ĎI canít wait until Trump asks us to rape your people and send you back over the biggest damn wall weíre going to build. Go back to hell, wet backí.

ďAfter saying all of that, he threw the water in his cup in my face, gave me the middle finger, and ran off.
______________

Real cute huh Schwartz? Being a goat roper should give you plenty of license to Make America Great Again with a little A&B or theft. Put on your favorite **** killers and trophy belt, set your pickemup truck to rolling coal and make America safe again. You can do it Kunt-n-Paste!







Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 11:49 PM

post deleted
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
^^^^^^^^^^^

Inciting violence to swing an election... now now Mikie... The good Doktar Geobbels would be very proud of DNC....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY


Donald Trump's victory followed by wave of hate crime attacks

In Los Angeles, hate crimes against Latinos had increased by 69 percent


Now now Mikie.. lets get the facts right here... I am sure there was no mention of the Mexican Mafia in the article that reported these facts...

Quote
Overall hate crimes in the county declined for seven years until 2015, when they rose 24 percent across the board, according to the commission. Hate crime increased 10 percent statewide last year. Sadly, Mexican MafiaĖtied street gangs were blamed for the oversize share of hate crimes.

"As in past years, the largest number of hate crimes targeted African-Americans, who represent only about 8.3 percent of county residents but [who] were 58 percent of victims of racial hate crime," according to a summary of the report. "A significant factor driving the over-representation of black hate crime victims are racially motivated attacks by street gangs, mostly those with ties to the prison-based Mexican Mafia gang."


You're getting very boring....

Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/11/16 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
So maybe 2 or 3 percent of people that voted for Trump are assholes, they likely were before Trump and likely will continue to be after. Hillary has plenty of assholes that voted for her too.


I live in the south, my voting precinct is roughly 50% black and 50% white (simply based off observation of the line over the past years). We all got along just fine talking football while waiting in the cold for an hour.


I believe most of it is false anyway... Unless of course there is a video to substantiate the claim... everyone has video right???

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
The election is over.

It is Trump for the next four (8 possibly) years. Interesting times, and I hope they will be good.

Mike. Time to move on. The current emotional and quite hateful displays of childish rage is plain pointless.


Norwegian politicians are already sending ouvertures of friendship and cooperation to the new administration - while looking at how to increase the national defense budget..




Again - interesting times..

Sorry brah, it is time to fight. Read the above by Horsey. I'll go with his closing, "I want my country back."


To which I say; bring it wispy.

I think trump is a ****ing fool, but the alternative would've been so much worse.

I stand by my the election is rigged stance too.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 12:08 AM

Not convinced Schwartz? Here's some more...

Countless Acts Of Hate Carried Out Since Trumpís Win

One of the comments reads, "When you shine a light on rats, they run away. Show every incident of hate. Let the Trump voters see what they have done."

Wear your best Cool Dude Sunglasses Kunt-n-Paste.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 12:17 AM

Is your wife on loose Schwartz? A few too many Jšger bombs maybe?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Not convinced Schwartz? Here's some more...

Countless Acts Of Hate Carried Out Since Trumpís Win



One of the comments reads, "When you shine a light on rats, they run away. Show every incident of hate. Let the Trump voters see what they have done."

Wear your best Cool Dude Sunglasses Kunt-n-Paste.


Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

Those same twits are using Twitter to Tweet assassination threats... gee now there are some real Phi Betta Kappa rocket surgeons for ya!

http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/assass...mp-flood-twitter-after-election-shocker/

What else ya got...
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Is your wife on loose Schwartz? A few too many Jšger bombs maybe?


Hey Mike,

You want to take jabs and barbs at me go ahead... don't bring my family into it..

You have my respect to keep your wife and kids out it, I would appreciate the same... If you can't do that, then lets end the fun

For now, you're back on ignore....
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 02:30 PM

Summed up in five minutes... and Mike, please pay attention to the last 45 seconds.... or at the least, the last 5 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d9lm-T87AQ
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Not convinced Schwartz? Here's some more...

Countless Acts Of Hate Carried Out Since Trumpís Win



One of the comments reads, "When you shine a light on rats, they run away. Show every incident of hate. Let the Trump voters see what they have done."

Wear your best Cool Dude Sunglasses Kunt-n-Paste.


Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

Those same twits are using Twitter to Tweet assassination threats... gee now there are some real Phi Betta Kappa rocket surgeons for ya!

http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/assass...mp-flood-twitter-after-election-shocker/

What else ya got...

I'm so sorry Schwartz. I forgot that, unless it appears on Faux News, it's just not true.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Is your wife on loose Schwartz? A few too many Jšger bombs maybe?


Hey Mike,

You want to take jabs and barbs at me go ahead... don't bring my family into it..

You have my respect to keep your wife and kids out it, I would appreciate the same... If you can't do that, then lets end the fun

For now, you're back on ignore....

Gosh Schwartz, you and the rest of the dummies had no problem with Chumlee bringing my wife in thanks to K-Lube spilling his guts. But, as it turned out, Chumlee had named his favorite appendage for polishing the Bishop's knob. Why would he discuss that in polite company?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Is your wife on loose Schwartz? A few too many Jšger bombs maybe?


Hey Mike,

You want to take jabs and barbs at me go ahead... don't bring my family into it..

You have my respect to keep your wife and kids out it, I would appreciate the same... If you can't do that, then lets end the fun

For now, you're back on ignore....

Gosh Schwartz, you and the rest of the dummies had no problem with Chumlee bringing my wife in thanks to K-Lube spilling his guts. But, as it turned out, Chumlee had named his favorite appendage for polishing the Bishop's knob. Why would he discuss that in polite company?


Grow your own pair and fight your own battles. JFC, you can't make this up!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Is your wife on loose Schwartz? A few too many Jšger bombs maybe?


Hey Mike,

You want to take jabs and barbs at me go ahead... don't bring my family into it..

You have my respect to keep your wife and kids out it, I would appreciate the same... If you can't do that, then lets end the fun

For now, you're back on ignore....

Gosh Schwartz, you and the rest of the dummies had no problem with Chumlee bringing my wife in thanks to K-Lube spilling his guts. But, as it turned out, Chumlee had named his favorite appendage for polishing the Bishop's knob. Why would he discuss that in polite company?


Grow your own pair and fight your own battles. JFC, you can't make this up!

I would Carl but I'm too, too depressed.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/12/16 05:53 PM

Just got a note on how Dems should conduct themselves over the next four years.


The election is over and all reasonable Democrats need to move on in the interest of the country. We need to accept and support President Trumpís mandate. It is clearly ungracious to take to the streets to protest the results of a democratic election. So, no time for sour grapes, I suggest the following:

1) We should encourage our elected representatives to extend the SAME consideration to President Trump as was accorded by our Republican breathren to President Obama.

2) We should advise our Senators and Representatives NOT to scrutinize President Trumpís business dealings with any less vigor than that which was used during President Clintonís Whitewater investigation.

3) Naturally we would suggest that Democratís NOT pursue allegations of sexual impropriety with any less zest than was applied during the Monica Lewinsky and Paula Jones cases.

No doubt, if our elected representatives follow these guidelines, we can expect President Trump to achieve his expected destiny for the good of the American people.

What say you all?


Well, what say you all?
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/13/16 11:42 AM

Mike,
Come on over to the 'logical, correct side',
you'll feel a lot better. Take a deep breath, .........exhale, there, that's better
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/13/16 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
Mike,
Come on over to the 'logical, correct side',
you'll feel a lot better. Take a deep breath, .........exhale, there, that's better

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/13/16 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

What else ya got...

Muslim teacher receives anonymous note about headscarf: ĎHang yourselfí

"Dear Americans,

Go ahead, vote for the guy with the loud voice who hates minorities, threatens to imprison his opponents, doesn't give a kiss about democracy, and claims he alone can fix everything. What could possibly go wrong.

Good luck.

- The people of Germany

#beentheredonethat
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/13/16 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

What else ya got...


UM student wearing hijab threatened to be lit on fire
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/14/16 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

What else ya got...


Donald Trump on Sunday told his supporters to stop harassing minorities, in his first televised sit-down interview since becoming President-elect.

"I am so saddened to hear that," Trump told CBS' Lesley Stahl on "60 Minutes" when she said Latinos and Muslims are facing harassment. "And I say, 'Stop it.' If it -- if it helps, I will say this, and I will say right to the cameras: 'Stop it.'"

Trump directed his comments to his own supporters whom Stahl said have written racist slogans or chanted degrading messages -- particularly in schools. It was a powerful appeal to a nation ripped apart by the divisive 2016 campaign. Trump's election has left Democrats angry and many minorities fearful about the future.


What else ya got Schwartz?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/14/16 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

What else ya got...


What do you make of this Schwantz?


Have you ever seen someone being publicly harassed by haters? I hadnít...before this week. Looks like Iíll have to get better prepared for dealing with it.

Thursday night after work I stopped to get gas at a busy intersection. Earlier in the day I had listened to an elderly Jewish woman whose family escaped the Holocaust when she was 6 years old tell me her fears about the election results, about how history seemed to be repeating itself. I had just finished a diary recalling Momís wisdom: ďThis, too, shall pass.Ē I pulled around to the open pump in front of a jacked-up big-wheel pick-up truck. As I swiped my debit card I heard yelling and saw a tall, skinny, hyped-up shaved-headed tattooed chain-bedecked shirtless young guy swaggering back to his truck where awaited another skinhead in the passenger seat. Oh, great. I turned away and started pumping gas, but the yelling intensified and had definitely taken on a threatening tone. I turned and looked again, and saw the tall skinhead now hurling invectives at a young brown man gassing up his beater Toyota across the way.

I moved to the back of my car, crossed my arms, and made eye contact with the young brown man, not sure what else to do but bear witness. I wanted to walk up to the two young tattooed chain-covered punks and scold them, but they seemed too out-of-control with rage and something elseó Drugs? Alcohol? so I kept my distance but kept watching them, feeling helpless and somewhat cowardly. I didnít want to get hurt. I am not a hero or a warrior. I didnít want to escalate the situation.

The young brown man stood there impassively, watching the two thugs. I couldnít make out the words they were screaming over their truckís engine, but their intent was clear. The tall skinhead jumped back in his truck and gunned it, still yelling, and then spotted me, a 60 year-old professionally dressed white lady giving him the stink-eye. His truck suddenly lurched towards me and I thought, Well, there goes my car, as it looked like he was going to ram the back of it. As he narrowly swerved around my car he bellowed out the window at me:

ďRAPE AND MURDER, BITCH! Weíre free now, we can do anything we want! Weíre free!Ē
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/14/16 06:57 AM

So this guy will be one of the most powerful people in the US? Not very reassuring to be honest.

http://qz.com/836329/breitbart-head...-strategist-steve-bannon-sees-the-world/
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/14/16 01:28 PM

Apologies Mike, but I thought the "time to fight" would have been BEFORE the election?

Since it appears there weren't enough people pulling levers to overwhelmingly approve a different candidate, I think the "fight" now would be more directly with your congressional representatives?

If you were too lazy to vote, then you shouldn't complain about what you "got".

But if it makes you feel better, toss all that internet crap out because that will CERTAINLY make everyone change their mind... (sarcasm) Everything I read on the internet must be true, of course...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and it's wonderful that we can conduct a healthy debate of issues (perhaps more effectively in person that on an electronic forum).

I for one am quite interested in what (if any) progress is made by the next administration toward the deficit, foreign policy, tax code changes, climate change and a host of other more state-centric issues.

But my perception of "progress" may be much different than yours. There are NEVER any easy (or simple) answers to the questions of governance, and spouting one just makes one appear simple or uninformed. I believe we all saw that during the debates.

Stay tuned... Cabinet appointees are coming. The rubber will hit the road (or not) soon enough!

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/14/16 05:57 PM

The fight now is for 2018.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/14/16 07:15 PM

indeed....
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/14/16 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
but I thought the "time to fight" would have been BEFORE the election?


There was a fight, and against all odds... Trump won! This fight election is over, and there are more coming up... now is the time to start.

But..... I think the next time around people are going to be looking at different sources for information... The media screwed this one up big time

http://www.people-press.org/2012/08...ity-ratings-for-most-news-organizations/

Like I said, I didn't vote for Trump... but it was a pleasure to watch Wolf Blitzer and Rachelle Maddow implode with PA was announced...

Best analogy of what just happened...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rk5rp499Q

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/15/16 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

What else ya got...



Still got questions Schwantz? There's a lot more answers.
Posted By: phill

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/15/16 08:22 PM

"Like I said, I didn't vote for Trump..."

I expect we will be hearing that quite a lot as reality sets in.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/16/16 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by phill
"Like I said, I didn't vote for Trump..."

I expect we will be hearing that quite a lot as reality sets in.

Word.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/16/16 04:36 AM

Air Horn Guy Busted, Offered Job

El Segundo has been under attack by the Air Horn Guy for the last six weeks. He was finally busted at 4 AM this morning.

The praise poured onto El Segundo Police Departmentís Facebook page from ecstatic residents.

ďThey found the air horn guy!!Ē wrote Jenn Birch.

Jennifer Phan wrote to another resident, ďIt was this idiot thatís been waking us up!Ē

According to police, Phan and other residents can now sleep easy.

On Sunday, patrol officers heard the blare of an actuated air horn ó a device similar to a train horn ó as it shattered the pre-dawn silence of El Segundoís west side at about 4 a.m., police said on Facebook.

Officers looked around and saw only one car on the street ó a little blue four-door, 2006 Chevrolet Aveo ó and pulled it over, said Sgt. Vincent Martinez.

In the back of the car, officers found an air tank with hoses connected to a device near the carís gas pedal, Martinez said. When an officer tried the carís horn, the sound of ďa big truck or trainĒ blasted from the diminutive hatchback, he said.


John W. Nuggent, brother of Ted Nugent, admitted he was the man who for the last six weeks had been driving down the street in the middle of the night waking up residents.

Nuggent has been contacted by the DNC and offered a job sounding his horn outside the White House after Trump takes office. The thinking is Trump may believe itís the 3 AM phone call.

Not surprisingly, he looks a lot like Todd.

'They found the air horn guy!!' El Segundo residents rejoice after driver with air horn arrested
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/16/16 04:51 AM

Melissa Zimdars, an assistant professor of communication at Merrimack College in Massachusetts has put together a list cataloging false, misleading, clickbait-y and satirical 'news' sources. She has divided them into four categories. Category one and two should be avoided by anyone who wants to cleanse their newsfeeds of misinformation. This, of course, excludes Todd, Schwantz, Chumlee, Sparky and Carl.

CATEGORY 1: Below is a list of fake, false, or regularly misleading websites that are shared on Facebook and social media. Some of these websites may rely on ďoutrageĒ by using distorted headlines and decontextualized or dubious information in order to generate likes, shares, and profits. These websites are categorized with the number 1 next to them.

CATEGORY 2: Some websites on this list may circulate misleading and/or potentially unreliable information, and they are marked with a 2.

CATEGORY 3: Other websites on this list sometimes use clickbait-y headlines and social media descriptions, and they are marked with a 3.

CATEGORY 4: Other sources on this list are purposefully fake with the intent of satire/comedy, which can offer important critical commentary on politics and society, but have the potential to be shared as actual/literal news. Iím including them here, for now, because 1.) they have the potential to perpetuate misinformation based on different audience (mis)interpretations and 2.) to make sure anyone who reads a story by The Onion, for example, understands its purpose.



100PercentFedUp.com (2,3)
EnduringVision.com (1)
PakAlertPress.com
21stCenturyWire.com (2, 3)
FPRNradio.com
PoliticalBlindSpot.com
70news.wordpress.com (1)
The Free Thought Project (3)
PoliticalEars.com
Abcnews.com.co (1)
GeoEngineeringWatch.org
Politicalo (1)
ActivistPost.com (2, 3)
PoliticusUSA
Addicting Info (3)
GovtSlaves.info
PrisonPlanet.com
AmericanNews.com (1)
GulagBound.com
PrisonPlanet.tv
AnonNews.co (3)
HangTheBankers.com
Private-eye.co.uk (4)
Associated Media Coverage
HumansAreFree.com
ProjectVeritas
BeforeItsNews.com
Huzlers (4)
Being Liberal
IfYouOnlyNews
React 365
BigAmericanNews.com
Indecision Forever (1)
RealFarmacy.com
BigPZone.com
IJR (Independent Journal Review)
RealNewsRightNow.com (1, 4)
Bipartisan Report
InfoWars (1, 2)
RedFlagNews.com
BizPac Review
Infowars.com
Red State (3)
Blue Nation Review (2,3)
IntelliHub.com
Reductress (4)
Breitbart (3)
Inquisitor.com
RileNews.com (1, 4)
Cap News (4)
JonesReport.com
Satira Tribune
ChristWire.org (4)
LewRockwell.com
Sprotspickle.com (4)
Chronicle.su
Liberal America
The Blaze
CivicTribune.com (1)
LibertyTalk.fm
The Free Thought Project (3)
ClickHole.com (4)
LibertyUnyielding
Borowitz Report (4)
CoastToCoastAM.com (2)
LibertyVideos.org
The Onion (4)
CollectiveEvolution (3)
LMR/LibertyMovementRadio.com
The Other 98% (3)
ConsciousLifeNews.com (2)
MediaMass.net (1)
The Reporterz
ConservativeOutfitters.com (2)
MegynKelly.us (1)
The Stately Harold
ConspiracyWire (WideAwakeAmerica.com) (2)
MSNBC.com.co (1)
TheDailySheeple.com
CountdownToZeroTime.com (2)
MSNBC.website (1)
TheNewsNerd.com
CounterPsyOps.com
Naha Daily (4)
TheRunDownLive.com
National Report
TheUsPatriot.com
CreamBMP.com (1)
NationalReport.net (1)
TruthFrequencyRadio.com
DailyBuzzLive.com
NaturalNews.com
Twitchy.com (3)
DailyCurrant.com
NC Scooper
UnconfirmedSources.com
NCT (New Century Times)
Daily Wire
News Examiner
USA Supreme
DCClothesLine.com
News-Hound.com (1)
US.Blasting.News
Catsailor.com (1)
DCGazette.com (1)
NewsBiscuit.com (1)
US Uncut (3)
DerfMagazine.com
Newslo (1, 4)
VeteransToday.com
Disclose.tv
NewsMutiny.com (1, 4)
DrudgeReport.com.co (1)
Newswatch 28
WakingUpWisconsin.com
DuffleBlog.com (4)
Newswatch 33
Winning Democrats
DuhProgressive.com
NewsWire-24.com
WitScience.org
Embols.com
NoDisInfo.com
World Net Daily
Empire Herald
Now8News
World News Daily Report (4)
Empire News (1)
NowTheEndBegins.com
WorldTruth.tv
EmpireNews.com
Occupy Democrats (3)
ZeroHedge
Endingthefed.com

Tips for analyzing news sources:


Avoid websites that end in ďloĒ ex: Newslo (above). These sites take pieces of accurate information and then packaging that information with other false or misleading ďfactsĒ (sometimes for the purposes of satire or comedy).

Watch out for websites that end in ď.com.coĒ as they are often fake versions of real news sources.

Watch out if known/reputable news sites are not also reporting on the story. Sometimes lack of coverage is the result of corporate media bias and other factors, but there should typically be more than one source reporting on a topic or event.

Odd domain names generally equal odd and rarely truthful news.

Lack of author attribution may, but not always, signify that the news story is suspect and requires verification.

Some news organizations are also letting bloggers post under the banner of particular news brands; however, many of these posts do not go through the same editing process (ex: BuzzFeed Community Posts, Kinja blogs, Forbes blogs).

Check the ďAbout UsĒ tab on websites or look up the website on Snopes or Wikipedia for more information about the source.

Bad web design and use of ALL CAPS can also be a sign that the source youíre looking at should be verified and/or read in conjunction with other sources.

If the story makes you REALLY ANGRY (Todd??) itís probably a good idea to keep reading about the topic via other sources to make sure the story you read wasnít purposefully trying to make you angry (with potentially misleading or false information) in order to generate shares and ad revenue.

Itís always best to read multiple sources of information to get a variety of viewpoints and media frames. Some sources not yet included in this list (although their practices at times may qualify them for addition), such as The Daily Kos, The Huffington Post, and Fox News, vacillate between providing important, legitimate, problematic, and/or hyperbolic news coverage, requiring readers and viewers to verify and contextualize information with other sources.





Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/16/16 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by phill
"Like I said, I didn't vote for Trump..."

I expect we will be hearing that quite a lot as reality sets in.


Phill,

It seems the a lot of folks from OZ have a fascination with US politics.... Not looking to start a fight, but can I ask why that is? Is OZ still that dependent on the US economy? Being so close to the Asian sphere I would think China would be a bigger influence?

It seems that OZ has a lot of same concerns on Healthcare, Social, Immigration, Foreign & Domestic Policies, etc.... and isn't your Liberal Party at the helm... seems to be very similar to what got Trump elected, that is the so called party of the middle class?

Are people over there regretful to Malcolm Turnbull?
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/16/16 08:24 PM

Hobie1616

The data show... Vox Facts don't make a difference

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/16/13426448/trump-psychology-fact-checking-lies

As the notorious george costanza noted... "It's not a lie... if you believe it."

IMO, A "lie" is a moral judgement.... determined by one's culture, society and theology about something in the real world.. The impact of a lie varies... from nothing to profound.

So.. we experience the real world by perception.. the article notes... that people can set aside their belief "Its a lie" perception when they get paid cash... basically something real happens to them if they perceive the real world accurately.

Another quip from the election...
"Regular people take trump seriously and not literally. Elites take trump literally and not seriously"

Take the events of 14 years ago concerning the Iraq war.

So... Trump BELIEVES he opposed the Iraq war from the beginning. This is not a fact and is documented. His supporters do take him seriously and not accurately.. and agree he opposed the Iraq war. The FACTS don't matter. AND THERE IS NO COST to them for this view or payoff.

Now consider the underlying issue about the Iraq war.... Was the Iraq war sold on or based on the basis of a Big lie existence of WMD? Again, we have the facts and the perception of the facts by the left is YES while the right perceives these facts as NO.

The FACTS have never mattered with respect to the war... Calling Bush/Cheney LIARS based on your moral/ethical/theological/cultural foundation or TRUTH TELLERS based on the same made no difference.

What DID make a difference was the actual costs of blood, treasure and wounded warriors. FACTS that impacted your or your families life. Support went from for to against in 4 to 5 years.

Given this reality Facts don't matter... Have you ever persuaded someone on the basis of FACTS?....

Personally.... my answer is NEVER.

New game question for you
... Obama's recovery act was max 2 year shovel ready projects... aka Keynesian stimulus of 1/3 building 1/3 temp tax cuts/ and 1/3 other stuff for 900 billion or so.

Trump proposes about the same... Now called Infrastructure
rebuild for about the same amount of money... but longer term.

The fact is both are Keynesian stimulus programs. WHAT were the LIES about Obama' program... What will be the LIES about Trump's program.
Sadly, the facts again won't matter.
The unfortunate fact of life is... the PERCEPTION of the lie is much stickier in your memory then the hard reality of the fact.
Human nature is human nature. Lying and believing Lies has survival value.

Irony is relabeling lying as political correctness... Political correctness obscures "the truth" Both sides get to deploy this one.

So. the American solution ... the history of slavery/native american policy gave rise to our unique non democratic (small d) constitution and electoral college. In the long run.... the facts tend to win.... but the costs are steep and as they say... in the long run... you are dead.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 12:08 AM

I agree Mark. The science says global climate change is real. it's confirmed by 97% of climate scientists. But the oil and other energy interests who see a cratering of their bottom line have used FUD to convince the low information types that it's a scam. Look at the screeching our favorite RINO Todd projects.

Todd was also fun to watch when he was screeching about the demise of the 100 watt incandescent light bulb. A program that George W. Bush championed. Ol' Todd was literally fighting his own best interests i.e. reducing his power bill.

And it's not just the wing nuts that get taken up with the anti-science rants.

Years ago, the City of Berkeley, California decided that the styrofoam food containers used by fast food joints were a environmental disaster. They wanted them to convert to waxed paper. Huge demonstrations, letters to the editor, the whole deal. In the middle of it all, the company that made both type of containers issued a press release stating that waxed paper was actually worse as it took forever to break down in land fills and were quite a bit more expensive.

Did Berkeley back off? Nope. Their minds were made up and waxed paper use became the law.

So, will Todd, confronted with overwhelming evidence, ever change his mind about climate change? Nope. His ego won't let him.

And when Trump turns out to be an unmitigated disaster helping only himself and his ilk while leaving the people that believed in him worse off than they were with Obama, will Todd change his mind? Ego strikes again.
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 02:36 AM

It's because we used to follow the USA's moral compass Ventucky, this meant we went in with whatever your country wanted to do, now we find we have to find our own way which is fine, your president elect has stated he is going to reconsider the current agreements and that means we will as well but he should consider that we used to be closely aligned with the USA and we have a huge trade deficit with the USA so if he wants to slap tariffs on or muck around with trade Aus will make a fortune by mirroring his policies
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Come on Mikie.. this is all hearsay Tweets on Twitter by twits..

What else ya got...

Megyn Kelly: 'I felt like (I'd) been dropped into a shark tank'
"Kelly recounted how one of Trump's lawyers, Michael Cohen, retweeted a Twitter user saying "we can gut her" at a time of heightened threats.

Kelly said Fox News executive Bill Shine intervened, telling Cohen, "You gotta stop this."
Cohen "didn't much care," according to Kelly. She said Shine responded: "Lemme put it to you in terms you can understand. If Megyn Kelly gets killed, it's not going to help your candidate."

"She also noted that Corey Lewandowski, Trump's campaign manager during the primaries, "specifically threatened me if I showed up at the second debate hosted by Fox News.""

Wow Schwantz.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 04:07 PM

Looking to earn extra money Todd? This is for you.

Fake News Writer: Trump Won ĎBecause of Meí

Paul Horner, an individual who creates hoaxes and fake news on Facebook, said he believes he is the reason why Donald Trump won the 2016 presidential election. ďHonestly, people are definitely dumber,Ē Horner said in an interview with The Washington Post. ďThey just keep passing stuff around. Nobody fact-checks anything anymoreóI mean, thatís how Trump got elected.Ē He added: ďI think Trump is in the White House because of me. His followers donít fact-check anythingótheyíll post everything, believe anything.Ē When asked why he wouldnít stop, Horner said he didnít think Trump could ever actually win the presidency. Recently, Google said it would scrub fake news from its ad platforms, which worries Horner because he makes $10,000 per month from advertisements that run with his work.


$10,000 a month Todd. There's plenty of suckers out there. You continue to confirm it.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

Keynesian stimulus programs.



Our economy has become a consumerism model (the theory that an increasing consumption of goods is economically beneficial.)

People just want to buy, buy, buy....







Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
It's because we used to follow the USA's moral compass Ventucky, this meant we went in with whatever your country wanted to do, now we find we have to find our own way which is fine, your president elect has stated he is going to reconsider the current agreements and that means we will as well but he should consider that we used to be closely aligned with the USA and we have a huge trade deficit with the USA so if he wants to slap tariffs on or muck around with trade Aus will make a fortune by mirroring his policies


What is good for US of A is good for OZ? I would think OZ was tied close to the UK....

Have you converted to the square top for you 5.8 per your new class rules?
Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


People just want to buy, buy, buy....



The consumption of the public is pretty disgusting.
Posted By: rehmbo

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
The consumption of the public is pretty disgusting.


Sez the guys with the $10k-$20k sailing toys.

I'm guilty here too. Just saying we probably ought not pass judgment on this one blush
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 09:33 PM

We are far removed from UK, don't do nearly as much trade as with USA which is why we have such a large deficit to you guys. Yep I have had the square top since it came in, it isn't faster for heavier crews like me because the top lays off in a breeze turning it into a pin head anyway, so my top speed is down a bit but with the 10 to 1 sheet it means smaller people can enter the class. Here's a video of a couple of weeks ago on a 50km race showing how it keeps the bows down a bit
https://youtu.be/Wf-D_3na1e0
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
We are far removed from UK, don't do nearly as much trade as with USA which is why we have such a large deficit to you guys. Yep I have had the square top since it came in, it isn't faster for heavier crews like me because the top lays off in a breeze turning it into a pin head anyway, so my top speed is down a bit but with the 10 to 1 sheet it means smaller people can enter the class. Here's a video of a couple of weeks ago on a 50km race showing how it keeps the bows down a bit
https://youtu.be/Wf-D_3na1e0


Kewl Vid... thanks for sharing...

It is awesome you guys are still making and racing the 5.8's down (or is it over) there.. It is still a pretty potent boat.. Here is mine with a square top from about ten years ago...

[Linked Image]

Hmmm.... maybe we could fix that trade deficit and revise the 5.8 class he in the US of A...

Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/17/16 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


People just want to buy, buy, buy....



The consumption of the public is pretty disgusting.


Consumption is not a bad thing, seems like many have made it the only thing....

Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red

Consumption is not a bad thing, seems like many have made it the only thing....


Spot on, nothing wrong with consumption, we had factories building things long ago but had small businesses in every area repairing the items, now we throw stuff away with no support industry
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 12:51 AM

Here's what the new ones look like, because of the mast rotation it looks like it doesn't go to the top but it does

Attached picture IMG_9640.jpg
Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by rehmbo
Originally Posted by bacho
The consumption of the public is pretty disgusting.


Sez the guys with the $10k-$20k sailing toys.

I'm guilty here too. Just saying we probably ought not pass judgment on this one blush




I think the nickel and dime stuff adds up to way more than any single large item.

I'm more frustrated with some of my peers that are convinced they have to "out do" each other. Last summer I heard a report that something like only 47% can come up with $500 cash for a surprise bill. Our population spends every available dime consuming everything possible with no regard for tomorrow.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by JeffS
Here's what the new ones look like, because of the mast rotation it looks like it doesn't go to the top but it does


Sweet... I got to make a trip down there sans the family... call it a sailing pilgrimage..

For ****s and giggles, what are the new ones selling for, the whole boat that is...
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by bacho

I think the nickel and dime stuff adds up to way more than any single large item.


Flew with a guy from Chicago to LA once, he ran a bunch of Pay Day Loan stores... Told me a majority of the people they do business with are not destitute, they are just so far in debt they are forced into pay check to pay check lifestyle... it comes in and goes right back out...





Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 02:56 AM

Get a new one about Aus$25,000, there's people replacing their 5.8's every couple of years so good supply of two year old boats about Aus$17000, three brand new Nacra 5.8's launched in the last 4 months with about 30 expected at the Nacra National titles at lake Cootharaba near Noosa Queensland over New Years. I've got a boat to lend you on your sailing pilgrimage or you can have a shot on all of them. Here's another video from about 6 weeks ago that shows the New 5.8 sails in the background and me giving my wife a thorough rinsing
https://youtu.be/IgcT5PaEKU4
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
It's because we used to follow the USA's moral compass


Holy cow that seems like a bad idea.... There are some who say there has been no moral compass in the USA since the late 1860s Isn't that why we're supposed to be wiped off the map by a certain radical group?

I get so confused these days... Where are those lodestones to recalibrate this compass? smile
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
Originally Posted by rehmbo
Originally Posted by bacho
The consumption of the public is pretty disgusting.


Sez the guys with the $10k-$20k sailing toys.

I'm guilty here too. Just saying we probably ought not pass judgment on this one blush




I think the nickel and dime stuff adds up to way more than any single large item.

I'm more frustrated with some of my peers that are convinced they have to "out do" each other. Last summer I heard a report that something like only 47% can come up with $500 cash for a surprise bill. Our population spends every available dime consuming everything possible with no regard for tomorrow.


Our entire economy is built on debt and I agree that there are too many people with no savings. This was part of the reason why we pushed the housing industry years ago and that system encouraged people to buy housing which was an investment/savings....except that big banking figured out a way to profit off the poor practices of a lot of people and things got out of control. Even Trump makes his money off debt and by simply using other people's money (debt) to make things happen.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/18/16 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Even Trump makes his money off debt and by simply using other people's money (debt) to make things happen.


OPM (Other Peoples Money) is the whole Ponzi scheme of real estate investing...


Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/19/16 01:25 AM

Any idea on what's going on here Todd?

North Pole an insane 36 degrees warmer than normal as winter descends
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/19/16 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by JeffS
It's because we used to follow the USA's moral compass


Holy cow that seems like a bad idea.... There are some who say there has been no moral compass in the USA since the late 1860s Isn't that why we're supposed to be wiped off the map by a certain radical group?

I get so confused these days... Where are those lodestones to recalibrate this compass? smile

We're too small a country, lazy and laid back to set our own way, now like a remora we just need to suck onto something and follow them, suddenly the nutters in our government are talking about stronger links with China, yea right like that's a good idea
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/19/16 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by JeffS
It's because we used to follow the USA's moral compass


Holy cow that seems like a bad idea.... There are some who say there has been no moral compass in the USA since the late 1860s Isn't that why we're supposed to be wiped off the map by a certain radical group?

I get so confused these days... Where are those lodestones to recalibrate this compass? smile

We're too small a country, lazy and laid back to set our own way, now like a remora we just need to suck onto something and follow them, suddenly the nutters in our government are talking about stronger links with China, yea right like that's a good idea


China is your #1 trading partner.... what links need to be strengthened?

Quote

China. Major exports include iron ore, coal and gold. ...
Japan. Major exports include coal, iron ore and beef. ...
United States. Major exports include beef, aircraft and spacecraft parts, and alcoholic beverages. ...


Bloody hell.... do we drink that much Fosters here in the US?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/20/16 02:40 AM

I think Bundy is used as a chemical cleaner.
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/20/16 07:05 AM

Real Aussies don't drink fosters, it's for poms and tourists, if you took fosters to a barbie everybody would take the piss out of you
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/20/16 07:41 AM

What's up with this?


File this one under either ďBe careful What You Wish ForĒ or ďElections Have Consequences.Ē

The good folk of Clay County, KY voted by a huge margin of 86-11for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton in last weekís presidential election.

It also turns out that:

About 60 percent of Clay County's 21,000 residents are covered by Medicaid, up from about a third before the expansion. The counties [sic] uninsured rate for nonelderly adults has fallen from 29 percent to 10 percent.

That means that a good portion of the residents of that county just voted to have their own medical coverage taken away from themselves, their families and their neighbors.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/21/16 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
Real Aussies don't drink fosters, it's for poms and tourists, if you took fosters to a barbie everybody would take the piss out of you


Then it must be all the Yellow Tail Shiraz and Pinot Garcio.... stuff that if you brought to cookout in CA.... well you get the hint.. grin

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/22/16 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
that system encouraged people to buy housing which was an investment/savings...


I tend to think that "investment" idea was a marketing sham as well. Housing to me is, well, shelter. Buy it and pay it off. It's not an "investment" or a bank account.

Especially today when it appears that millenials have no interest in buying housing (and the debt, maintenance, and other hassles associated with property ownership), it would appear that my housing "investment" may not produce the kind of yield that the industry touts as reason to keep buying bigger houses.

And who would be the beneficiary of this housing "investment"? I can't realize the net gain on the house until I sell it, and then I'm out of shelter? Or would my beneficiaries get the gain when I'm dropped in a hole in the ground?

Shows how out-of-fashion my thinking is these days prioritizing security (financial/physical) over some "net worth" or "buying power" figure on papers...
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/22/16 07:36 PM

A harsh truth about fake news: Some people are super gullible

Todd? Schwantz? Carl?!?!
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/22/16 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb


I tend to think that "investment" idea was a marketing sham as well. Housing to me is, well, shelter. Buy it and pay it off. It's not an "investment" or a bank account.


To me it is an investment despite the market, and it has done pretty well for my portfolio.. On two of my properties the rent is almost double the mortgage.

And I agree, these are not ATM machines like many have done in the past... Can't believe I am starting to hear the ads again, refi you house, payoff you debt and refi some more when you debt gets back up again...

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/22/16 08:49 PM

In your case, real estate is an investment. I was referring to people that don't have anything other than their primary residence as "real estate holdings"

In the rental/leasing business, who do you find are the tenants? People who can't afford a mortgage, those who don't WANT a mortgage, or something else?
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/22/16 10:05 PM

;-)
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/22/16 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
In your case, real estate is an investment. I was referring to people that don't have anything other than their primary residence as "real estate holdings"

In the rental/leasing business, who do you find are the tenants? People who can't afford a mortgage, those who don't WANT a mortgage, or something else?


Not a question I can really answer...

We have two military bases near by, and we're registered with the Base Housing Office... this is where 99% of our tenants come from. We need to keep the rent and deposits under certain amount for them to list it; however, there are some back end advantages.... never have to worry about rent or any legal issues... tenants are pre-screened... and they are generally some good people to work with... in the past 30 years only once have I had to bust balls with a tenant, and even then one call to the CO and the problem was solved...

But we do have one that wants to be close to the private school their kids are in.... think about it, forgoing owning a house to send their kids to a private school... what does the tell you about the schools in The Peoples Republic of California.
Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/23/16 12:15 AM

I certainly view my real estate as an investment. I own 2 properties, I intend to sell them at a profit down the road and have more cash than I started with. At that time I will need to purchase another home, and I will intend to do the same maneuver. When I can no longer take care of myself or/and a home, that investment is cashed in.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/23/16 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
I intend to sell them at a profit down the road and have more cash than I started with. At that time I will need to purchase another home, and I will intend to do the same maneuver. When I can no longer take care of myself or/and a home, that investment is cashed in.


Sounds great on paper, and this strategy will likely prove successful as you have several parcels..

At the time you decide to sell your properties, do you expect to find alternative land/housing at a more attractive price than you paid for your original two parcels? Or would you in effect be "downsizing" by combining the proceeds from the sale of these parcels into fewer purchases (like one parcel instead of two)?

If I sold my house now I'd see a profit versus what I bought it for, but to buy an identical house (size, location, age, etc) I would have to pay more than the sale of my current one. So my net result might be negative if I chose to sell and buy something else.

Which was my thought regarding considering your primary residence an "investment". If I had other parcels, of course I'd consider those investments since I can sell them and still retain a roof over my head.

I think maybe I fall into the "Ron Swanson school of finance": Bury it in the back yard...? smile Or perhaps considering "cash-on-hand" as a measure of buying power rather than net worth (which requires borrowing = paying someone else for the privilege of using your money)
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/23/16 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
think about it, forgoing owning a house to send their kids to a private school... what does the tell you about the schools in The Peoples Republic of California.


Don't fret... It's almost as bad here in FL. I got two in private school which means I won't be buying a foiler for another 12 years. And that's IF they get scholarships (they aren't minority or otherwise disadvantaged kids).

All for the hope that they will be able to afford a nice old-folk home to put me in when I'm decrepit. Otherwise it will likey be that trailer park that smells like pee.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/23/16 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb


If I sold my house now I'd see a profit versus what I bought it for, but to buy an identical house (size, location, age, etc) I would have to pay more than the sale of my current one. So my net result might be negative if I chose to sell and buy something else.

Which was my thought regarding considering your primary residence an "investment". If I had other parcels, of course I'd consider those investments since I can sell them and still retain a roof over my head.



Yes, I consider my primary residence as an investment as well... with every purchase, I have always gone a little over my head in down market... For what I have purchased my current home for and what I could sell it for is... well.... With this house, they're carrying me out feet first.. I am done buying, rehabbing, and moving...

By the way it is not a profit or revenue... it is a capital gain... it has to do with how the IRS considers the income and taxes it... Unless of course your in the "house flipping business."

Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/23/16 06:14 PM

Hey, take this real estate/investment garbage to a new thread!! LOL
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/23/16 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
what does the tell you about the schools in The Peoples Republic of California.


Why do you stay? There's lots of red states where you'd fit right in. Call Bekins today!
Posted By: dave mosley

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/23/16 08:19 PM

This is the saddest post I have ever seen on this forum, people insulting each others wives and families, spreading lies, inciting violence, pretty despicable stuff.
Can we not go back to insulting people about their crappy mark roundings and fouls at the starts and leave this political stuff for people on other forums?
I mean come on, let's at least support each other, sailing, and this forum.
Is this what we want new cat sailors to see when we say " hey there is this great forum on catsailor.com , everyone is super friendly and super helpful, stay away from sailing anarchy.com, those guys are a bunch of A-holes".

Understand my point?
Time to drop this from Ricks site.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/24/16 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by dave mosley

...,stay away from sailing anarchy.com, those guys are a bunch of A-holes".



Hi Dave,

Like many other things in life there is a choice and you don't have to click on the thread... Experience being the teacher here, the Drill Baby Drill thread should have taught you that lesson... As a fiend of mine once said, "religion, politics, and the queen are not to be discussed at the supper table." This and previous threads are a prime example of this philosophy.

Though I do agree with you on the fact family should be left out of, there are a few that use this style in conversation to get a reactionÖ For them it is their only form of communication and for this we have the ignore feature... sort of like the Safe Place from micro aggression's... except we don't have play doh, psychologist, pillows, soothing music and an understanding, sympathetic staff. We just donít have to deal with their shite and can continue a discussion with those that want to act like adults.

Lastly, regarding Sailing Anarchy... from that forum I have made some great friends both in the US and abroad.... AAMOF got a chance to go sailing in Germany a few years back along with some great recommendations for travel,and have a standing invitation for the same in France, Finland, and Amsterdam. I have received some great information on "how tos'" on topics outside of sailingÖ Along with some great travel, cooking, etcÖ tips.. There is a pretty good brain trust over there you may want to tap into it.. Saying there all a bunch of assholes is like saying all liberals are idiotsÖ or all conservative morons.. not trueÖ but I will acquiesce that the Pareto principle does come into playÖ.

Have a great Thanksgiving and I hope you can get on the water... we are!!!!



Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/24/16 02:48 AM

I'm pretty sure we've covered everything cat sailing related. Virtually every topic has been beaten to death.

A home is a mediocre investment at best. Even with bonkers inflation and very low interest rates, you aren't going to make double digit numbers. That's excluding weird factors. I probably could've made 15% per year on a house that I bought, when things bottomed out, and sold four years later, but that's extenuating circumstances. An anomaly.

Most people are terrible with money. Home ownership is the only shot they have to building any wealth at all.

Rental property is a whole different story, though given the choice I would go commercial over residential, but the entry cost is higher. Generally renters are the people who can't get their **** together to buy a home, and the laws are much more favorable as the owner in commercial space. With a well written lease agreement, you're in control.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/24/16 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
With a well written lease agreement, you're in control.


In a few states the tenants have more rights than the landlord..

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/24/16 04:44 PM

That's certainly true for residential, commercial though the laws are more on your side
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/24/16 05:16 PM

Well Dave,
To you and your family, and others reading this thread,
Happy Turkey Day, Good Mark roundings, and have fun.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/28/16 09:57 PM

The Associated Press defines 'alt-right.'

ďAlt-rightĒ (quotation marks, hyphen and lower case) may be used in quotes or modified as in the ďself-describedĒ or ďso-called alt-rightĒ in stories discussing what the movement says about itself.

Avoid using the term generically and without definition, however, because it is not well known and the term may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supportersí actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience. In the past we have called such beliefs racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist.

[b]Writing about the Ďalt-rightí[/b]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/29/16 05:44 PM

O'Reilly says don't worry about Todd and Schwantz.

Bill OíReilly: Donít worry about white nationalist...
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/29/16 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
The Associated Press defines 'alt-right.'

ďAlt-rightĒ (quotation marks, hyphen and lower case) may be used in quotes or modified as in the ďself-describedĒ or ďso-called alt-rightĒ in stories discussing what the movement says about itself.

Avoid using the term generically and without definition, however, because it is not well known and the term may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supportersí actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience. In the past we have called such beliefs racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist.

[b]Writing about the Ďalt-rightí[/b]



That's not very accepting of the Associated Press. White Supremacists are people with feelings too ya' know. Would it be better if they conducted their meetings in a safe space or wore a safety pin for you?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/30/16 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Would it be better if they conducted their meetings in a safe space or wore a safety pin for you?


Nah, just post all this drivel on the internet since that ALWAYS changes people's opinions smile

Cuz I believe everything I read...
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/30/16 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
That's not very accepting of the Associated Press. White Supremacists are people with feelings too ya' know. Would it be better if they conducted their meetings in a safe space or wore a safety pin for you?

There is no doubt that you have feelings Carl.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 11/30/16 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
That's not very accepting of the Associated Press. White Supremacists are people with feelings too ya' know. Would it be better if they conducted their meetings in a safe space or wore a safety pin for you?

There is no doubt that you have feelings Carl.


They're in there somewhere. Buried under layers of booze, exhaustion, and sawdust. wink
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/01/16 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb

Don't fret... It's almost as bad here in FL. I got two in private school which means I won't be buying a foiler for another 12 years. And that's IF they get scholarships (they aren't minority or otherwise disadvantaged kids).

All for the hope that they will be able to afford a nice old-folk home to put me in when I'm decrepit. Otherwise it will likey be that trailer park that smells like pee.


Ditto. Two in private school and a third that will start next year. No boats in my near future.



Edit: Oops, I guess I have been away from the forum for too long. I replied before I finished reading the thread.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/07/16 03:00 PM

I was listening to Sheriff David Clark on the drive to work this morning, he's guest hosting a morning show.
Yep- one of the few Democrats I'll vote for, as I live in his county.
So, now I'm also llistening atr work on I heart radio! You should listen to him, now on 1130 AM readio- Milwaukee, or listen to the posd casts.
Sharp guy- When he talks, I listen.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/07/16 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
I was listening to Sheriff David Clark on the drive to work this morning, he's guest hosting a morning show.
Yep- one of the few Democrats I'll vote for, as I live in his county.
So, now I'm also llistening atr work on I heart radio! You should listen to him, now on 1130 AM readio- Milwaukee, or listen to the posd casts.
Sharp guy- When he talks, I listen.

Of course you'd listen to him Todd.

Clarke has proposed that about 1 million people should be sent to Guantanamo Bay if they useĒjihadi rhetoricĒ online.

He has referred to the Black Lives Matter movement as ďBlack Lies Matter.Ē

Clarke doesnít believe police brutality is a problem and rails about the ďwar on police.Ē

He favors riots to aid Donald Trump but is anti-protest when people are against him.

Terrill Thomas, 38, was found dead in a Milwaukee County Jail cell on April 24, nine days after being arrested in connection with a shooting. Other inmates heard Thomas beg for water in the days before he died, the Journal Sentinel reported in July. Fellow inmates told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel corrections officers shut off the water in Thomasí cell for the six days before his April 24 death. The jail officers refused the inmatesí warnings that Thomas was sick and in dire need of drinking water, the inmates said.

Yet another person has died at the Milwaukee County Jail, the facility overseen by Sheriff David Clarke, an avid Donald Trump supporter. This time, it was a newborn baby.

According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, a former inmate at the facility claims that a guard laughed off her request for medical attention as she went into labor in her jail cell in July. Thirty-year-old Shadť Swayzer has since filed a notice of claim against the jail alleging that the facilityís staff is responsible for her childís death, her attorney said Wednesday. Swayzer, who was about nine months pregnant at the time of the incident, is seeking $8.5 million in damages.

He's your kinda guy Todd. Just don't get thrown into his jail.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/07/16 04:10 PM

Garrison Keillor checks in.

Itís a wonderful satire right out of Twain or Thurber. A minority of the electorate goes for the loosest and least knowledgeable candidate, certain that he will lose and their votes will be only harmless protest, a middle finger to Washington, and then ó whoa. The joke comes true. You put a whoopee cushion on your fatherís chair and he sits down and it barks and he has a massive coronary. You wanted to get a rise out of him and instead he falls down dead. Very funny.

Thank you, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania for this wonderful joke. Voters in high dudgeon against Wall Street manipulators and the Washington aristocracy vote for the billionaire populist who puts tycoons in power and the Republican hierarchy who owned the logjam that the voters voted against. If Billy the Kid had been smart, heídíve run for sheriff.

And now we sit and watch in disbelief as the victor drops one piece of china after another, spits in the soup, sticks his fist through a painting and gobbles up the chocolates. Not satisfied with the usual election night victory speech, he stages a post-election victory tour and gloatfest, a series of rallies in arenas where he can waggle his thumbs and smirk and holler and point out the journalists in their pen for the mob to boo and shake their fists at. He puts the Secret Service through their paces, highways are closed, planes diverted, cities disrupted, just so the man can say how much fun it was to defeat Hillary Clinton and confound the experts.

I stood in an airport last Thursday and watched live cable news coverage of his first stop in Indiana where he toured a factory whose owner had been promised a $7 million tax break in return for not laying off 800 workers. In November, 178,000 jobs were created and unemployment fell, and here was a platoon of journalists in Indiana trailing a big galoot with a red tie who offered a corporation $7 million not to lose 800 workers. No gain, simply a non-loss. It was a classic TV moment, extensive live coverage of essentially nothing whatsoever and we all stood in a stupor and watched, like people mesmerized by drops of rain sliding down a windowpane.

Eighty thousand Trump voters in three states gave us this man, which goes to show you how much damage a few people can do. It takes 12 million to provide health care, 3 million to run the public schools, but 19 men with box cutters can turn the country upside down and empower the paranoid right and create the pretense for wars that will cost billions and kill a million people and give us a permanent army of blue uniforms yelling at us to take off our shoes and put our laptops into plastic trays.

He is a showman, and oddity has paid off for him, as it did for Lady Gaga and Gorgeous George and Liberace. But the public demands new tricks. Today, railing at the journalists who slavishly cover him is, like bear-baiting or lion-taming, entertainment enough, but by next fall he will need to pull canaries out of his ears, and by 2018 heíll be diving on horseback from a high tower into a pool of water while playing ďMalagueŮaĒ on a trumpet. Meanwhile, the Democrats wander in the woods, walking into trees. A wealthy San Francisco liberal is reelected as minority leader in the House, having flung millions into the wind and gotten skunked in 2014 and drubbed this fall, and a lackluster black Muslim congressman from Minneapolis is a leading candidate for chair of the Democratic National Committee, the person who will need to connect with disaffected workers in Youngstown and Pittsburgh. Why not a ballet dancer or a Buddhist monk?

Meanwhile, the emperor-elect parades in the nude while his congressional courtiers admire him and the nation drifts toward the rapids. The one bright spot is the old draft-dodgerís newfound fondness for generals, including the one who talked him out of the idea of torturing prisoners of war. Military experience does encourage a certain respect for reality. There is hope that if the showman should decide late one night to incinerate Iran or North Korea and get it over with, someone might say, ďHold on. Letís think this through.Ē


Do you ever think things through Todd?
Posted By: dave mosley

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/07/16 06:50 PM

Oppositional Defiant Disorder

Children with ODD can be manipulative and often induce discord in those around them.

Commonly they can incite parents and other family members to fight with one and other rather than focus on the child, who is the source of the problem.

Children who have ODD are often disobedient. They are easily angered and may seem to be angry much of the time.

Very young children with the disorder will throw temper tantrums that last for 30 minutes or longer, over seemingly trivial matters.

Does your child:
ēOften argue with adults
ēOften lose his/her temper
ēIs often angry and resentful
ēIs often spiteful and vindictive
ēDoes he/she yell that they "hate you"
ēIs he/she constantly in trouble at school
ēIs often touchy or easily annoyed by others
ēDoes your child have extreme mood swings
ēOften deliberately annoys people and is rude to adults
ēOften blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
ēIs your he/she a little angel with others but a "monster" at home
ēDoes he/she constantly argue with you and always has to have the last say
ēDoes your child have trouble making friends and fitting in at school/pre-school
ēHis/her temper actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
ēIs your child stealing, from home, school, etc. and constantly lying about where he/she obtained the items from
Posted By: dave mosley

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/07/16 06:53 PM

Narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders. Personality disorders are conditions in which people have traits that cause them to feel and behave in socially distressing ways, limiting their ability to function in relationships and other areas of their life, such as work or school.


If you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may feel a sense of entitlement ó and when you don't receive special treatment, you may become impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything ó for instance, the best car, athletic club or medical care.

At the same time, you have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation. To feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make yourself appear superior. Or you may feel depressed and moody because you fall short of perfection.

Many experts use the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, to diagnose mental conditions. This manual is also used by insurance companies to reimburse for treatment.

DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:
ēHaving an exaggerated sense of self-importance
ēExpecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
ēExaggerating your achievements and talents
ēBeing preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
ēBelieving that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
ēRequiring constant admiration
ēHaving a sense of entitlement
ēExpecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
ēTaking advantage of others to get what you want
ēHaving an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
ēBeing envious of others and believing others envy you
ēBehaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal and value yourself more than you value others.

When to see a doctor

When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may not want to think that anything could be wrong ó doing so wouldn't fit with your self-image of power and perfection. People with narcissistic personality disorder are most likely to seek treatment when they develop symptoms of depression ó often because of perceived criticisms or rejections.
Posted By: dave mosley

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/07/16 06:54 PM

just sayin....
Posted By: Bob_Curry

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/07/16 08:47 PM

I thought this thread was dead after Nov 9. Ice cold Dr. Pepper here!!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/08/16 04:16 AM

Snails - 1
Trump - 0

Snails accomplished what 16 Republican primary opponents and Hillary Clinton could not: defeat Donald Trump. The US president-elect just withdrew plans to build a massive seawall that would protect his Irish golf resort from rising sea levels caused by the climate change that he previously said is a Chinese hoax. Environmental activists opposed the development that would have extended 1.7 miles (2.8 kilometers) on Doughmore Beach in the Atlantic Coast village of Doonbeg, claiming that construction of the 15-foot limestone wall would have destroyed the EU-protected Carrowmore Dunes sand dune habitat that is home to the rare prehistoric snail, vertigo anguistor.

While Trump has recently waffled on his past statements denying the human connection to climate change and promising to withdraw the US from the Paris climate agreement, the documents submitted for the seawall in May were quite clear about the impact of climate change, stating that ďrising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion.Ē
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/08/16 01:49 PM

Seriously? Most people here despise obedience to authority (just mention US Sailing and see what happens), and I recognize at least half of the Narcissistic traits in many, many posts on this site.

Hopefully, that's all just an artifact of communication via this format; otherwise, we're surrounded by maniacs...

Mike
Posted By: Bob_Curry

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/09/16 12:45 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/0...colin-kaepernick-for-anthem-protest.html
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/09/16 03:59 PM

It's all in the numbers Todd.

President Obama's overall approval rating is at 50%. However, while his favorability with Republicans is 9%, it is only 5% of Trump voters.

Trump voters live in a virtually fact-free or made-up-fact environment.

The stock market under President Obama soared. The Dow Jones Industrial average went from 7,949.09 to 19,614.91, again, up 11,665.72. In other words, it more than doubled. 39% of Trump voters think the stock market went down under Obama.

Unemployment dropped from 7.8% to 4.6% during the Obama administration. Clinton, Johnson, Stein and other voters are well aware of that fact. But not Donald Trump voters; 67% of them believe unemployment rose under President Obama.

40% of Trump voters believe that Donald Trump won the popular vote.

60% of Trump voters believe that millions voted illegally for Clinton.

73% of Trump voters believe that George Soros paid Trump protesters.

29% of Trump voters believe California vote should not be included in the popular vote.

"I think it shows that even after the election, what Trump voters believe about the world is distinctively different from what the rest of the country believe. And from what is true. And this is an alternate reality that they are in, -- it is weird enough and specific enough that you can't say it just springs from broader a misunderstandings or from a broader ignorance on issues that afflicts the country.

And this is a specific alternate reality that was created by the Trump movement for a political purpose. And it worked for that political purpose. And now as the Trump administration takes shape, they have to know that they are in power thanks to their voter base that has these false beliefs about the country.

False beliefs about the country, false beliefs about the economy, false beliefs about the outgoing president, false beliefs about what California is. In terms of what happens next in our country, it seems important to know this incoming president basically created this fantasy life for his supporters."
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/09/16 11:36 PM

Mr. Curry,

As I remember, you are retired military, I thank you for your service. However I must object to your tag line. I find it to be insulting, petty and just plain wrong.

The America Civil Liberty Union has protected the civil rights of all America citizens that we have under our constitution. They have protected your right to say what you have said about them.

You and I are close to the same age, so you probably entered the service in the Vietnam era. A conflict spearheaded by 2 chicken hawk presidents. Our young men should not have been sent there.

As you were in the military, I must ask, was every soldier of the Christian faith?

Were there any Atheist's?

Any Shinto's, Buddhist's or Muslim's?

Or are they also SOB's?

As far as toughening up, I will do just as I did after Nixon was elected. I will deal with it and not act like Mc Connell & Boehner and doom him from day 1.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/10/16 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by jkkartz1


You and I are close to the same age, so you probably entered the service in the Vietnam era. A conflict spearheaded by 2 chicken hawk presidents.



As you were in the military, I must ask, was every soldier of the Christian faith?



Regarding Viet Nam, I believe Eisenhower got us into this and Kennedy started the escalation... both of these were decorated WWII Vets... as was Johnson who kept us there and was awarded, even though he was a naval officer, the Army Silver Star in WWII. Also, Nixon who ended the war was awarded two battle starts for service in the South Pacific... None of the Viet Nam era presidents were chickenhawks..

In answer to your second question... there are no atheist in a fox hole.. just saying....
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/10/16 06:52 PM

Chicken hawk may be the wrong descriptor of these men.

Ego driven men without the will to admit that made a mistake and correcting it may be more appropriate.

Please refer to Robert A. Caro's biographies of LBJ for a better history.

The best way to support our troops is to not send them on foolish missions.

Are you absolutely sure of your second response?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/11/16 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by jkkartz1


Ego driven men without the will to admit that made a mistake and correcting it may be more appropriate.



Kennedy was advised by both Eisenhower and Douglas MacArthur to pull out of Vietnam... Eisenhower was tied to lending support to the French and the newly established South Vietnamese government as part of the Paris Treaty at the end if WWII... terms agreed to by Truman.

Some say the Kennedy wanted out and this may have cost him his life...

Some say that Johnson saw the writing on the wall after Kennedy was hit a decided to go along with what Eisenhower referred to as the Military Industrial Complex..

So lets sum this up...

Ho Chi Minh approached Truman (a democrat) after assisting the US in fighting the Japanes to help in establishing a free country... Truman said no..

Eisenhower (a republican) gave aid and advisors to South Vietnam to help in the fight against the communist. But, refused to escalate it beyond that.

Kennedy (a democrat) escalated the conflict with more aid and ground and air support.

Johnson ( a democrat) further escalated the war and this cost him his presidency... that is he chose not to run and ran from the problem..

Nixon (a republican) ended it...

Score D-3 R-2.. looking at the scoreboard... looks like team D has the bigger ego Huh!

You forgot one name Robert McNamara - he should have been hung for treason... I my mind he was the true culprit behind this.... Or at least all of his CEO buddies

jkkartz1, for tomorrows class be prepared to discuss the Bay of Pigs and the events leading and including the Kennedy assassination.. cool



Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/12/16 11:12 AM

No matter it was a mistake made by several presidents.

Hopefully we have learned something from it.

Would you care to address Mr. Curry's ACLU comment?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/12/16 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by jkkartz1


Would you care to address Mr. Curry's ACLU comment?


Sure, I'll bite

The ACLU is a Necessary Evil... they have done some good and bad... and sometimes they should just mind their own business..

To their credit, the stood with the Nazi/Skinheads; which was politically incorrect even back then, when they wanted to march in Chicago in defense in their right to free speech. As well as Brown v. Board of Education. Regarding Brown, a lot of liberals really championed this but once the law was passed, nothing really happened... Care to take a guess at who really enforced school desegregation?

As for the bad, I don't like that fact that due to the diligent work of the ACLU, in many cases a criminal has more rights than the victim's of their crimes. I can't seem to recall the ACLU standing up for victims rights.

As for minding their business; recently, there was a HS football game where they we're honoring first responders and alocal fallen hero... innocent shite. But this tweaked the ACLU to the point where the sent a letter to the school district noting that this was a direct protest and an injustice to the pro athletes who have taken a knee during the National Anthem, following the actions of San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick.



Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/12/16 02:26 PM

it is humorous to see all these "simple" answers on how to "fix" foreign relations.

But thank you to those who are posting some of the information which demonstrates it's not so simple when you really start to dig in...

Does isolationist policy really work?

Is global policing really the only answer? (Team America movie comes to mind)

Should the concept of foreign policy be designed only to advance American interest? If so, at what cost to the remainder of the globe?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/12/16 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Kennedy was advised by both Eisenhower and Douglas MacArthur to pull out of Vietnam... Eisenhower was tied to lending support to the French and the newly established South Vietnamese government as part of the Paris Treaty at the end if WWII... terms agreed to by Truman.

Some say the Kennedy wanted out and this may have cost him his life...

Some say that Johnson saw the writing on the wall after Kennedy was hit a decided to go along with what Eisenhower referred to as the Military Industrial Complex..

So lets sum this up...

Ho Chi Minh approached Truman (a democrat) after assisting the US in fighting the Japanes to help in establishing a free country... Truman said no..

Eisenhower (a republican) gave aid and advisors to South Vietnam to help in the fight against the communist. But, refused to escalate it beyond that.

Kennedy (a democrat) escalated the conflict with more aid and ground and air support.

Johnson ( a democrat) further escalated the war and this cost him his presidency... that is he chose not to run and ran from the problem..

Nixon (a republican) ended it...

Score D-3 R-2.. looking at the scoreboard... looks like team D has the bigger ego Huh!

You forgot one name Robert McNamara - he should have been hung for treason... I my mind he was the true culprit behind this.... Or at least all of his CEO buddies

jkkartz1, for tomorrows class be prepared to discuss the Bay of Pigs and the events leading and including the Kennedy assassination.. cool


That's quite a history lesson Schwantz. Here's a recent quote from a guy who also made history.

Trump lives and thrives in a fact-free environment. No president, including Richard Nixon, has been so ignorant of fact and disdains fact in the way that this president-elect does. It has something to do with the growing sense of authoritarianism that he and his presidency are projecting and the danger of it is obvious and heís trying to make the conduct of the press an issue not his own conduct.

What we have seen throughout the campaign is pathological disdain for the truth, a kind of lie and ease with lying that we have not seen before.
--- Carl Bernstein

Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/13/16 03:25 PM

People who have all this contempt and hate is just a poison that they take in hopes that the other person dies
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/15/16 07:38 PM

Did you see that while Michigan went Red, in Detroit area alone, there found more people had voted that had registered? Look it up

Thanks Stein for making it possible to point that out
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/15/16 10:32 PM

does Detroit allow on-site voter registration?

Can't imagine how you could walk up and vote without that provision...

Things are different here (registration closes 29 days before election and Photo ID verification at check-in)
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/16/16 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
does Detroit allow on-site voter registration?

Can't imagine how you could walk up and vote without that provision...

Things are different here (registration closes 29 days before election and Photo ID verification at check-in)


The way all states should be!!
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/20/16 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
Did you see that while Michigan went Red, in Detroit area alone, there found more people had voted that had registered? Look it up

Thanks Stein for making it possible to point that out


Facts matter:

Not "registered" but were logged by the poll station staff. They write down the person voting in a log book upon arrival and then the person votes. The votes vs. the log book didn't match at several precincts. In some cases there were more votes than in the log books, in some cases there were fewer votes than in the log books. It's definitely a good reason to do an audit to rule out or determine ill intent but there is a decent chance that it was human error and/or poor procedures or, even worse, shitty voting equipment that resulted in the discrepancies. For example; Machines were reported to have jammed when the voter feeds their ballots in and the vote gets nullified when the ballot is attempted to feed in a second time. Poll staff are supposed to correct the issue but may not have in many locations. Also notable is that 158 of the 392 precincts in Detroit where discrepancies were found were only off by 1 vote between the log and the vote tally and I can imagine that most of the others hovered in that single digit range. Wild numbers are fun but details matter.

My point is; because there are discrepancies doesn't automatically mean that someone was cheating. It should definitely be drilled into and the issues discovered.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/20/16 08:28 PM

I would agree with Jake's position that discrepancies don't always point to fraud.

My particular district had something like 1400+ voters cast ballots, and many of those ballot "styles" were multiple pages (front and back) because of the number of questions on the ballot as well as the english/spanish translations of each question.

So, roughly 2800 ballot "pages" were run through the machine (not counting the "provisional ballots" which are counted separately).

We also have to consider that more than a handful of voters screwed up their ballot (didn't fill out the bubble, marked areas that the scanner couldn't read, etc) and had to "spoil" one page and get a new copy.

Heck, some voters intentionally did not fill out anything on their ballots. There is even a procedure to count those blank ballots...

Each of these "issues" has a corrective action (and documentation) which helps prevent or at least explain any difference between the number of voters and the number of ballots cast.

Is all of this perfect? I doubt it. But does this constitute "fraud", or will this difference be enough to swing an election by 2 million votes? I suspect the answer is "no".
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/20/16 08:31 PM

I guess I should also strongly urge those folks who feel the election process is "rigged" actually volunteer to be a voting station worker.

I know I had to complete almost 40 hours of training for the local election, and then re-certify for each election after that. Through this effort, I gained respect for the way our state operates the election process.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/21/16 01:04 PM

I miss the "dimpled chad".

Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/21/16 02:19 PM

Jay, I fully appreciate your effort to make our democracy work.

I don't know if this is universal, but where I live, our ballots are huge, and have to be filled in by hand (ovals), then scanned at a central location.

I don't know why, but there is no curtain around the scanner, and for as long as I recall (except this year), some volunteer tells us HE has to put the ballot into the scanner (and of course he reads the votes first).

That just don't seem right...

Mike
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/21/16 03:31 PM

In Md.... We now are back to the scanning system because it provides a hard record for recounts. You put your ballot in a folder and then open the folder and push the ballot into the scanner. The poll worker supervises you pushing the ballots into the scanner. You have to do it tho. If you think somebody can read your ballot between the time you move it from the sleave and stuff it into the scanner.... well. I would ask you to provide some evidence. Perhaps the poll worker who stuffs your ballot into the machine can record your vote.. but again... I would need some evidence.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/21/16 04:33 PM

The process here is similar, Mark. Only the voter handles his/her ballot. If the machine kicks it back, the poll worker is only there to provide instructions.

If a ballot has to be touched by anyone other than the voter, a requirement is to have two workers (one from each party) assist/observe.

In addition to all this, there are up to 4 poll watchers (2 from each political party in my case) who watch like a hawk and call the elections office to report any discrepancies.

Finally (and I think I said this before), the machines are audited which means the ballots are removed, hand-counted and the scores are compared against the machine readout. All this is done in the presence of multiple witnesses from all political parties and/or a public meeting.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/21/16 05:44 PM

wow, SC more technically advanced for once. We have digital voting machines - you enter your vote into the digital machine with no paper ballot. Staff at a desk record your name into the log book and give you a red tag. You wait at a short line for a voting machine to come available. Another polling place staffer walks you to that machine where he/she inserts a large red block/dongle to enable the machine for your vote. When done, you just leave and they remove the red dongle.

Now, drawbacks? I don't think you could technically do a recount other than compare the logbook to the number of votes the machines totaled. You would also need to go to some really great lengths to make sure that machine (and however it sends it's data) can't be tampered with.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/22/16 12:51 AM

Jake, MD had those machines 2 years ago... but the best practice study prompted the state to sell those machines and go back to scanners and paper ballots... Handicap access was provided in other ways.... That is what got lost in the reversion to scanners.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/22/16 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Jake, MD had those machines 2 years ago... but the best practice study prompted the state to sell those machines and go back to scanners and paper ballots...


Did South Carolina buy them?
Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/22/16 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Jake, MD had those machines 2 years ago... but the best practice study prompted the state to sell those machines and go back to scanners and paper ballots...


Did South Carolina buy them?


Seems they have been around a decade or
So.

I did not know there was still as many other areas still using paper. Our machines in my mind make hacking a possibility, though very very remote. I'm not crazy about the idea about having no physical record of my vote.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/22/16 02:23 PM

I really like the way Florida has been doing it with the paper. I just wouldn't trust a strictly data-driven system. Data can easily go *poof* during a malfunction and it's gone forever. I also feel it can be easily manipulated if hacked. It's much harder to manipulate hard paper with the oversight they have set up. I think their check-in procedures are pretty spot on as well. You have to be on their list of registered voters and show ID. I'm sure there are still bad players who can abuse the system this way, but it is much more difficult than simply jumping on a bus and riding from polling station to polling station.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/22/16 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Redtwin
I really like the way Florida has been doing it with the paper. I just wouldn't trust a strictly data-driven system. Data can easily go *poof* during a malfunction and it's gone forever. I also feel it can be easily manipulated if hacked. It's much harder to manipulate hard paper with the oversight they have set up. I think their check-in procedures are pretty spot on as well. You have to be on their list of registered voters and show ID. I'm sure there are still bad players who can abuse the system this way, but it is much more difficult than simply jumping on a bus and riding from polling station to polling station.


I'm still a little lost on the ID requirement. You are either a registered voter on the list or you aren't. If you aren't on the list, you can't vote. If you are on the list and already voted, you can't vote. Only if you are on the list in your precinct and have not registered a vote can you vote again. It would be really difficult to leverage that to your advantage on any significant scale.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/22/16 08:13 PM

The ID requirement stops someone from voting fraudulently as a dead voter... IE the recently dead who have not been purged from the voting roles.

The 1960 election is mythologized as thousands of dead voters swinging the election to Kennedy from Nixon in Chicago. This was driven by the Daley Democratic machine who made the levers churn by using their machine. The republicans are hyping the risk of the dead voting to provide a reason for ID restrictions that suppress minority vote. The issue is not presenting an ID... its presenting one of the approved photo ID's which are pricey to get. The benefit of course is that it suppresses vote in the urban areas where "THOSE" voters are.

At the end of the day.. you are correct that it is really difficult to leverage the dead voting. Truth be told... its much easier to send the oldest and most likely to malfunction machines to the areas where you want to suppress vote.. Waiting in line for 6 hours can be the norm in some areas. The impact of voter ID laws happen well before the voting period... It raises the bar for voters so that they don't even try to re register after a change of address, life status, etc (money, time, headache, confusion, etc)
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/23/16 12:26 AM

I didn't mean to imply that the worker reading my ballot at the scanner was attempting to commit fraud in any way. But, it leaves a very unpleasant impression (far too nosey for why should be a secret process).

One year, the guy actually took a moment to stop and read it, I guess trying to read it as it was being pulled into the scanner was too much of a challenge...

We don't get folders or sheaths, just a ballot. I suppose anyone in the area with good eyes could read it, not just the worker in that position.

Mike
Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/23/16 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
The ID requirement stops someone from voting fraudulently as a dead voter... IE the recently dead who have not been purged from the voting roles.

The 1960 election is mythologized as thousands of dead voters swinging the election to Kennedy from Nixon in Chicago. This was driven by the Daley Democratic machine who made the levers churn by using their machine. The republicans are hyping the risk of the dead voting to provide a reason for ID restrictions that suppress minority vote. The issue is not presenting an ID... its presenting one of the approved photo ID's which are pricey to get. The benefit of course is that it suppresses vote in the urban areas where "THOSE" voters are.

At the end of the day.. you are correct that it is really difficult to leverage the dead voting. Truth be told... its much easier to send the oldest and most likely to malfunction machines to the areas where you want to suppress vote.. Waiting in line for 6 hours can be the norm in some areas. The impact of voter ID laws happen well before the voting period... It raises the bar for voters so that they don't even try to re register after a change of address, life status, etc (money, time, headache, confusion, etc)



An approved photo ID is a pricey venture?

I don't believe in large scale fraud, but I also have a hard time believing that an appropriate ID is such a burden. In fact I hardly see how it's practical to get through life these days without one.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/24/16 05:54 AM

My drivers license is my only photo id and it costs $140 per two years. (State went on a user fee binge under Erlich.

What other state approved photo ID do you have in your wallet AND that is readily available. (Oh and its 20 bucks to get a copy of a birth certificate for any of these things... .... so if you need a birth certificate to vote... this is all known as a poll tax)
Posted By: bacho

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/24/16 12:23 PM

Hmm, a DMV issued photo ID (not a drivers license) is free in this state to anyone over 17. Must provide proof of identity, citizenship and residency in this state.

http://www.scdmvonline.com/dmvnew/default.aspx?n=identification_cards


Looks like the same thing would cost you $24 every 8 years. Free to seniors. Again I don't see this as a huge burden.

http://www.dmv.org/md-maryland/id-cards.php


I hardly see it as a "poll tax" these are all things that are very useful in everyday life.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/25/16 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
My drivers license is my only photo id and it costs $140 per two years. (State went on a user fee binge under Erlich.

What other state approved photo ID do you have in your wallet AND that is readily available. (Oh and its 20 bucks to get a copy of a birth certificate for any of these things... .... so if you need a birth certificate to vote... this is all known as a poll tax)


wow! I've never lived anywhere were the drivers license required fees like that or that much renewal...MY SC license has been valid for 10 years and I think there's a $20 fee associated with it or something.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/25/16 09:10 PM

I want to say seven years and $35 for renewal here in Minnesota.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/26/16 04:45 AM

USER FEES... are my states republican way of cutting taxes but maintaining the revenue. We invented the flush tax... to pay for waste treatment plants and then applied it to septic owners.... Lots of noise about that one.. but... all in all it worked so... the next admin was democratic and created the Rain tax to pay for the EPA consent decree to mange rain water runoff waste water into the bay. So, the next admin promised to kill the rain tax... and pay for the consent decree... though general revenue. So we come full circle... at the end of the day... you have to pay for things.... what you call it... is marketing.

So... charge anything for a photo id... that you require for voting.. its a poll tax. Now ... how you market it... well
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/26/16 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
USER FEES... are my states republican way of cutting taxes but maintaining the revenue. We invented the flush tax... to pay for waste treatment plants and then applied it to septic owners.... Lots of noise about that one.. but... all in all it worked so... the next admin was democratic and created the Rain tax to pay for the EPA consent decree to mange rain water runoff waste water into the bay. So, the next admin promised to kill the rain tax... and pay for the consent decree... though general revenue. So we come full circle... at the end of the day... you have to pay for things.... what you call it... is marketing.

So... charge anything for a photo id... that you require for voting.. its a poll tax. Now ... how you market it... well


Is there a breakdown of what those fees are used for... such as the State Patrol, etc.....

I thought in MD you could get an ID card for $15.00 that will last 8 years... has this changed?

Funny... went to the doctor the other day... they know me I know them, but now with the AHA they need a copy of my ID with each visit or they don't get reimbursed... seems you can't get through life without a photo ID these days

Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/26/16 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
USER FEES... are my states republican way of cutting taxes but maintaining the revenue. We invented the flush tax... to pay for waste treatment plants and then applied it to septic owners.... Lots of noise about that one.. but... all in all it worked so... the next admin was democratic and created the Rain tax to pay for the EPA consent decree to mange rain water runoff waste water into the bay. So, the next admin promised to kill the rain tax... and pay for the consent decree... though general revenue. So we come full circle... at the end of the day... you have to pay for things.... what you call it... is marketing.

So... charge anything for a photo id... that you require for voting.. its a poll tax. Now ... how you market it... well


It's not "known" as poll tax, it's SPUN as poll tax. As mentioned above, there are places where seniors can get them for free.

A driver's license is a privilege, not a right. It's happens to be a convenient form of photo ID. There are other forms.

As you noted, everything costs money, to print, administer, etc.

A really smart government would make the IDs free to protect the legitimacy of the vote, and pay for it out of general funds. Of course, that will never happen with our overly-partisan system that values fight and change over working together to make us stronger.

Mike
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/27/16 12:35 PM

Not to start a fight about voter fraud, but didn't one of the Democratic leaders up North (NY?) admit to bussing folks around from precinct to precinct and casting multiple votes? Maybe I have been a victim of false news???

EDIT: I don't know the credibility of the source but here is the story.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/18/project-veritas-election-videos/#
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/27/16 01:21 PM

Old saying
"No tickey No laundry"
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/27/16 04:19 PM

Jake,

Florida used those electronic only machines for one of the elections a bit ago (I think after the 2000 election debacle) but moved back to the electronic/paper system after the questions were raised about accountability.

With the paper trail, not only can we verify the # votes = # voters, but we can audit the machine itself (# votes for candidate 1 = # ballots for candidate 1).

I think there was a rumor that one precinct in Texas 2008 had a machine programmed wrong so that a vote for candidate 1 was actually checking the box for candidate 2.

And our paper ballots are issued with a privacy sleeve to be used by the voter until such time as they (themselves) insert it in the machine.

As to the issue of voter ID, I agree that some forms of ID cost money (and therefore can be seen as a sort of "poll tax"). But the list of photo/signature ID is rather large and includes some forms of ID that are free (photo/signature credit card is one that pops out in my mind). But the vast majority use Driver license / ID or Passport.

Those who don't have ID are given a provisional ballot to be evaluated by a separate "canvassing board" who establish the citizen's right to vote and count that ballot if those eligibility criteria are met.


What is really interesting, however, is the vast differences between states as to how they handle the election process.... Surely there must be some "best practices" list of things that is shared among states. But since voting is left under the pervue of state gub'ment I guess it's all up to elected representatives...
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/28/16 01:34 AM

Mike... a really smart government.... Say WHAT!

"Starting with John F. Kennedyís victory over Richard Nixon in 1960, Delia Anderson had voted in 14 straight presidential elections.

She had cast her ballot at the same polling place for years, never with a glitch. This year, however, a volunteer driving her to the polls mentioned that she would be asked to show a state-approved photo ID.
ADVERTISING

ďDonít these poll people already know who I am?Ē replied Anderson, who is 77, black and uses a wheelchair, as she frantically sifted through her purse for anything to prove her identity.

It was a lost cause. She had planned to vote for Hillary Clinton. Instead, for the first time in 56 years, she did not cast a ballot.

ďLord, have mercy,Ē she said. ďWhat happened to voting?Ē"
In Wisconson...

from la times

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-minority-voter-suppression-2016-story.html

OH... and even a charge of 15 dollars for the right to vote... is aka a poll tax. Semantics!

So far... i believe they have ID 1 case of voter fraud in the last election....
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/28/16 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by brucat


It's not "known" as poll tax, it's SPUN as poll tax. As mentioned above, there are places where seniors can get them for free.
...
Mike


But not All places will provide an ID for free - relatively few are. If you have to pay money for an ID, that you wouldn't need otherwise, and you need that ID in order to place a vote - It doesn't take much spin to consider that a poll tax.

That said, most of us need that ID for other things (driving a car) and it comes in handy for a lot of other things. With that being the case, most of us see very little issue or hassle with having to provide one to vote. However, the Constitution does not intend for only "most of us" to be able to vote.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/28/16 04:09 PM

For Florida at least:

Approved forms of picture identification are:

Florida driver's license

Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles

United States passport

debit or credit card

military identification

student identification

retirement center identification

neighborhood association identification

public assistance identification

veteran health identification card issued by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs

license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm issued pursuant to s. 790.06

an employee identification card issued by any branch, department, agency, or entity of the Federal Government, the state, a county, or a municipality (Section 101.043, F.S.)


Some of these forms of ID do not require money, only the time/effort to obtain it. Those not willing to spend that time/effort probably won't want to spend time voting either?
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/28/16 05:47 PM

Delia Anderson at 77 years of age more than likely is getting social security benefits as well as medicare
How can she cash the checks or open a bank account with out proper ID
Posted By: mbounds

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/28/16 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
For Florida at least:
Approved forms of picture identification are:

Florida driver's license
Costs $48, requires passing several tests (eye exam, written, driving)

Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
Costs $25, requires proof of identity, a SSN and proof of FL residency

United States passport
Costs $110, requires proof of citizenship, valid ID, photos.

debit or credit card
Costs $0 (might have monthly charges), requires a bank account (which requires ID, etc.)

military identification
Requires being in the military

student identification
Requires being a student (paying tuition)

retirement center identification
Requires being in a retirement center ($$)

neighborhood association identification
Requires owning a home ($$$$$$)

public assistance identification
Requires being on public assistance, which requires completing a lengthy form and a SSN

veteran health identification card issued by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs
Requires having been in the military

license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm issued pursuant to s. 790.06
$112 fee, background check

an employee identification card issued by any branch, department, agency, or entity of the Federal Government, the state, a county, or a municipality (Section 101.043, F.S.)
Requires being a federal employee

Some of these forms of ID do not require money, only the time/effort to obtain it. Those not willing to spend that time/effort probably won't want to spend time voting either?


I'm a homeless person with no bank account who makes my "living" standing on a street corner with a "Help Me" sign and I spend my nights in a shelter. I'm too proud to be on public assistance - or maybe my reading skills aren't good enough to read the form. I watch the news on television at the shelter and I want to vote in the election. The State of Florida is preventing me from voting.

Your argument is invalid.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 12:56 AM

Given that there haven't been any serious documented cases where a lack of ID requirement was leveraged to create forged votes on any significant scale, why are IDs a big deal?...unless you want to keep a particular group from voting...which isn't very constitutional. You're much more likely to die in a car crash that experience a fraudulent vote but I don't hear you guys screaming for a reduction in speed limits or 5 point harnesses ;-).

It's not like you can just walk up to any precinct to vote. You still have to be a registered voter in THAT precinct and that registration only gets to vote once.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 01:00 AM

Quote
with out proper ID


This is just typical of the BS spin... How can XXX not have ID in this country blah blah blah....
the ISSUE is PHOTO ID for VOTING... not proper ID for voting. The little old lady had tons of ID... some probably government issued... just not PHOTO ID...

There is NO PROBLEM with individual Voter fraud by false ID photo or otherwise.
There are NO revolving door polling places where you cast votes as mr jones... mr smith and mr brown. The republicans cannot produce any data... much less compelling data that demonstrates a problem.

PHOTO ID requirements are a way to raise a barrier to voting that impact some demographics more then others. I don't know why they just don't cut the polling booths by half in the areas that don't support the powers in charge. Much more effective. "HEY... you could have voted if you waited in line for 6 hours... Your choice!" IMO, Both are barriers that are un American.

OH..BTW
We don't have "Papers" in this country. You don't have to walk around with specific government ID AT ALL...

I don't know of any law that requires you to carry ID ... AT ALL
Now... if you want to have that debate... Let' have at it. (HINT... its a real issue for all those wanting actual immigration caps and enforcement AND it will redefine American Values.
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 11:36 AM

Hmm Too proud to go on public assistance but not too proud to beg
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Hullflyer1
Hmm Too proud to go on public assistance but not too proud to beg


That's not what we're talking about here. That was an example and I think you missed the point smile
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Quote
with out proper ID


This is just typical of the BS spin... How can XXX not have ID in this country blah blah blah....
the ISSUE is PHOTO ID for VOTING... not proper ID for voting. The little old lady had tons of ID... some probably government issued... just not PHOTO ID...


Again Mark, this is not BS spin.... for her to apply and receive SS benefits she needed a photo ID, for her to cash her SS check, she'll need a photo ID, for her to apply and received Medicaid benefits she needed a photo ID, the list goes on...

Leave you photo ID at home and see how far you can get without it..

Oh! In CA if you're on public assistance, the card is free.... pretty sure this is the same for most states

Quote
OH..BTW
We don't have "Papers" in this country. You don't have to walk around with specific government ID AT ALL...


Your right, this is not a federal law, but it is a state law in many states that are part of the Interstate Motor Vehicle Compact... which Maryland and Virginia are part of...
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 06:27 PM

The government issued ID problem is much bigger than many of you believe. 3.2 million Americans do not possess a government-issued picture ID according to a 2012 study co-authored by Norden.


from http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote
Quote
Who Are They?

By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Americans don't have picture IDs.



You marry these facts with a lack of actual fraud that these new rules are prophesied to protect us against and it's pretty easy to assume there is an ulterior motive...or at least a quietly agreeable benefit to those that are putting these rules in place.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 09:10 PM

Jake highlights facts.. YOU (Or me) don't get to say how you choose to live in this country. So... the little old lady has not needed a photo ID to live her life in this country for 70 plus years.. You don't get to judge that reality and deny them a constitutional right. ...

Matt's principled street beggar gets to choose their existence... and you also don't get to judge that as up or down and deny them constitutional rights either.

We are talking about VOTING.... not functioning in American society according to a standard that YOU or your political party wants to impose.

So... we eventually got the constitutional right to vote mostly sorted out. Blacks, can now vote... Woman can now vote.... you don't have to own property to vote..

All constitutional rights are balancing acts and the specific details get decided by the Supremes.

On the one hand, you have a legitimate concern that all votes are cast according to the constitution.... and on the other hand.... what is an undue burden on individuals voting to ensure that result.

as Jake points out... some populations don't have photo Id. I point out that PROOF of voter ID voting fraud is trivial and almost non existent. Moreover, the difference a photo ID would make on the trivial numbers documented are vanishingly small and the impact of fraud of this type hardly decisive in normal political election. (Counting and arithmetic errors in one county swamp the literally handful of documented voter fraud cases nationwide)

So... What is your argument that PHOTO ID voting requirements is a BALANCED response to the legitimate concern that elections are representative, fair and accurate. Don't forget our constitution takes into account the rights of the individual and stops majorities from stomping on individuals. ... So... balance away...

Posted By: catman

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by mbounds
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
For Florida at least:
Approved forms of picture identification are:

Florida driver's license
Costs $48, requires passing several tests (eye exam, written, driving)

Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
Costs $25, requires proof of identity, a SSN and proof of FL residency

United States passport
Costs $110, requires proof of citizenship, valid ID, photos.

debit or credit card
Costs $0 (might have monthly charges), requires a bank account (which requires ID, etc.)

military identification
Requires being in the military

student identification
Requires being a student (paying tuition)

retirement center identification
Requires being in a retirement center ($$)

neighborhood association identification
Requires owning a home ($$$$$$)

public assistance identification
Requires being on public assistance, which requires completing a lengthy form and a SSN

veteran health identification card issued by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs
Requires having been in the military

license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm issued pursuant to s. 790.06
$112 fee, background check

an employee identification card issued by any branch, department, agency, or entity of the Federal Government, the state, a county, or a municipality (Section 101.043, F.S.)
Requires being a federal employee

Some of these forms of ID do not require money, only the time/effort to obtain it. Those not willing to spend that time/effort probably won't want to spend time voting either?


I'm a homeless person with no bank account who makes my "living" standing on a street corner with a "Help Me" sign and I spend my nights in a shelter. I'm too proud to be on public assistance - or maybe my reading skills aren't good enough to read the form. I watch the news on television at the shelter and I want to vote in the election. The State of Florida is preventing me from voting.

Your argument is invalid.



You and your fantasy scenario's.

This state has a law where you have to ID yourself on demand.

We have got to this point because people lie and cheat.

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane?

Because of one guy.

If you are not responsible enough to get an ID then maybe you should not vote.

And watching the news at a shelter, LOL. What ABC, CBS, NBC, please.

You don't like our state laws, stay the hell out.
Posted By: mbounds

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/29/16 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by catman

You and your fantasy scenario's. Sorry, but the use of an apostrophe here is inappropriate. Are you educated enough to vote?

This state has a law where you have to ID yourself on demand.
Show us your papers!
[Linked Image]
Actually, it's not a general law - in Florida, the police must have a reasonable suspicion that you're involved in criminal activity (a Terry stop).

We have got to this point because people lie and cheat. No, we got here because people are convinced that the elderly, the poor, "coloreds" and the under educated are somehow not fit to vote. That they'll lie and cheat to somehow "rig" an election.

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane? Don't know about you, but I don't have to. It's called TSA PreCheck.

Because of one guy. Thanks Richard Reid! Although I think Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab had more style. Shouldn't we all be commando on planes now? I'm confused.

If you are not responsible enough to get an ID then maybe you should not vote.
And if I said if you aren't responsible enough to buy a gun, then maybe you should not have one, you'd have spittle flying out screaming "Hurrrr! 2nd Amendment! This is 'Merica!" Sorry, you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution you like.

And watching the news at a shelter, LOL. What ABC, CBS, NBC, please.PBS NewsHour laugh I'm an educated beggar.

You don't like our state laws, stay the hell out. Sorry, you don't get to make that call, either. I'm a US Citizen. Last time I checked there was no such thing as a "Florida Citizen."
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/30/16 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by mbounds

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane? Don't know about you, but I don't have to. It's called TSA PreCheck.


Remind me again on how much that cost you and the verification process you were subjected to for this privilege?






Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/30/16 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by mbounds

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane? Don't know about you, but I don't have to. It's called TSA PreCheck.


Remind me again on how much that cost you and the verification process you were subjected to for this privilege?

For me, it was free. And, there was no verification process.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/30/16 04:20 PM

There is a certain type of person in the US that confounds me and is a real threat to this country. They pound the constitution like a bible when it suits their needs but are lightning quick to ignore it when it doesn't. They scream "FREEDOM!" and "DON'T TREAD ON ME!" but only care to apply that philosophy to the flesh contained within the perimeter of the belt around their waist. This country is not yours, mine, or theirs. It is ours. Every single United States Citizen has rights and protections provided under a unified Constitution and this has created a magnificent country. Quit trying to kiss it up by picking and choosing which rules you want to apply.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/30/16 05:54 PM

The accuracy of votes (and potential of fraud to actually impact the outcome) should be a concern to everyone here. There have been crazy-tight results in several of the recent presedential races (virtual 50/50 ties, relying on electoral strategy), that I don't see how you seriously think this isn't a problem.

If the average citizen thinks the system is rigged, that's bad enough to keep them from voting. If they have proof that it's rigged, there will eventually be riots. This is to say nothing about the international view of our democratic process. Do we really not want to take action to avoid that?

Hanging chads forced the change in voting machine technology, it's natural to want to ensure that all votes cast are legitimate. I don't know why you have to consider me a bigot/racist/supremacist to say that (I'm none of those).

Mike
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/31/16 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by mbounds

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane? Don't know about you, but I don't have to. It's called TSA PreCheck.



Remind me again on how much that cost you and the verification process you were subjected to for this privilege?

For me, it was free. And, there was no verification process.


Everyone will get a free pass every once in a while... If you're lucky to get it on one flight chances are you'll get it on the return flight... And, if your traveling a lot you can have a permanent PreTSA or Known Traveler Number.

The cost is $100, plus an background check, and a ID verification.

A lot of my work mates that do international travel have a Nexus Card or a Global Entry card that has your photo on it and other info similar to a driver license... This lets them breeze right through TSA and Customs...

Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/31/16 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
There is a certain type of person in the US that confounds me and is a real threat to this country. They pound the constitution like a bible when it suits their needs but are lightning quick to ignore it when it doesn't. They scream "FREEDOM!" and "DON'T TREAD ON ME!" but only care to apply that philosophy to the flesh contained within the perimeter of the belt around their waist. This country is not yours, mine, or theirs. It is ours. Every single United States Citizen has rights and protections provided under a unified Constitution and this has created a magnificent country. Quit trying to kiss it up by picking and choosing which rules you want to apply.


Jake, I liked when you used the term 'United States Citizen' and Constitution
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 12/31/16 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
The accuracy of votes (and potential of fraud to actually impact the outcome) should be a concern to everyone here. There have been crazy-tight results in several of the recent presedential races (virtual 50/50 ties, relying on electoral strategy), that I don't see how you seriously think this isn't a problem.


Mike



um... Accuracy and constitutionality of voting IS a shared concern. (that is why this debate is ongoing.

crazy-tight results is a FACT.

It is a complete and total failure of logic to conclude that..
"seriously think this isn't a problem. "

By your logic... the basketball game was for the championship (integrity is important given the impact).. the game was tight (a measurable fact)... it was decided by 1 POINT (The specific fact in this case). So Seriously... we have a problem with .... the score keeper, the last shooter.. the referee, the coach, etc etc etc or the existential question... DID the ball go through the hoop 97 times.... really?

What do you want to argue here? You Need to measure and prove a FACT.... not handwave.... with your "seriously think this isn't a problem argument"

STep one... Identify and measure the actual problem. How much voter fraud related to ID fraud is there, where and when and what is the rigor of proof?

Try again... WHAT is your balancing act between the two concerns. Constitutional integrity of voting AND undo burdens on voting.

Me... I think showing one form of records with your address in the district is sufficient. It preserves both integrity of voting and constitutional rights.

Me... I think showing TWO forms of records with your address in the district is more then sufficient... and you Could make the case that it is an unreasonable BARRIER in some circumstances. If its judged a barrier... then your constitutional right to vote is abridged.

Me... I think showing a PICTURE ID with your current address in the district is a BARRIER and moreover, solves no real problem. (AND I have data showing this fact disparate impact is in fact true)

If you had to travel 100 miles to update your FREE photo ID solely to vote... would that be a barrier to you... how about your 90 year old grand parent in a wheel chair who changed his address to a new retirement home? My point... EVEN FREE ID....is not the complete test of a barrier that takes away your constitutional right.

How about a deal? A government records certification site issueing picture IDs within 5 miles of every precinct voting station in USA AND a nationwide standard for the number of voting machines in each polling station.... I will then conclude that a photo ID is not a barrier.

PS... Who said/inferred you are a bigot/racist/supremacist? Why is it... that all discussion ends with one party deciding they were called a racist in so many words?
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/01/17 04:47 AM

OK, maybe I'm spoiled because everything here is within a half-hour drive. We all know that dealing with the government (registry of motor vehicles, etc.) is certainly a drain on your free time.

Hey, I get annoyed because I'm registered, and own a house, and pay taxes, and vote every year, and I'm on the list; yet I'm forced to wait in a separate line to prove who I am (with a photo ID) because I don't respond to the town's annual census. So, that's irritating, but I still value that they're making sure all votes are from actual citizens of that district. Call me crazy...

Happy New Year, everyone.

Mike
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/01/17 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by mbounds

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane? Don't know about you, but I don't have to. It's called TSA PreCheck.



Remind me again on how much that cost you and the verification process you were subjected to for this privilege?

For me, it was free. And, there was no verification process.


Everyone will get a free pass every once in a while... If you're lucky to get it on one flight chances are you'll get it on the return flight... And, if your traveling a lot you can have a permanent PreTSA or Known Traveler Number.

The cost is $100, plus an background check, and a ID verification.

A lot of my work mates that do international travel have a Nexus Card or a Global Entry card that has your photo on it and other info similar to a driver license... This lets them breeze right through TSA and Customs...

I've had free PreCheck since it started. It might have something to do with the 1.8 million miles I've flown with American.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/02/17 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616

I've had free PreCheck since it started. It might have something to do with the 1.8 million miles I've flown with American.


The don't do the inclusion program anymore for the high mile traveler, or those that earn mileage points using their airline credit cards... that is why I got the Known Traveler Number.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/02/17 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616

I've had free PreCheck since it started. It might have something to do with the 1.8 million miles I've flown with American.


The don't do the inclusion program anymore for the high mile traveler, or those that earn mileage points using their airline credit cards... that is why I got the Known Traveler Number.

I still get PreCheck printed on boarding passes. My wife gets it too as she's connected with my account.

I've got over 1.8 million flight miles. The credit card points have taken me well over two million.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/02/17 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616

I've had free PreCheck since it started. It might have something to do with the 1.8 million miles I've flown with American.


The don't do the inclusion program anymore for the high mile traveler, or those that earn mileage points using their airline credit cards... that is why I got the Known Traveler Number.

I still get PreCheck printed on boarding passes. My wife gets it too as she's connected with my account.

I've got over 1.8 million flight miles. The credit card points have taken me well over two million.


Well good for you and your wife....
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/03/17 03:55 PM

I don't know if that's "good." How many years of your life do you spend in an airliner seat to accumulate 1.8 million miles?

Mike
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/03/17 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
I don't know if that's "good." How many years of your life do you spend in an airliner seat to accumulate 1.8 million miles?

Mike


Taking the average speed of an airliner... 737 and above @ 550 MPH.... that is 3,272 hours... just a little under a half a year... or 136 days in the air... very doable..

My self, I have been at it for about 30 years... and between my three most used... I have just about 1.1 million actual miles. Add in the credit card and other perks it is much higher. I haven't traveled as much in the last 6 years.... it gets old quick and the TSA has really proven that the chronically unemployed are employable..
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/03/17 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
I don't know if that's "good." How many years of your life do you spend in an airliner seat to accumulate 1.8 million miles?

Mike

Too many. Most of it was international. Minimum of ten hours and some that were fifteen plus. My longest trip started out in San Francisco. Went to Mexico City, looped through Miami to Bogota, reversed course to Auckland and ended up in Brisbane before going through Sydney to get back to San Fran. I was gone for a month.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/03/17 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616

I've had free PreCheck since it started. It might have something to do with the 1.8 million miles I've flown with American.


The don't do the inclusion program anymore for the high mile traveler, or those that earn mileage points using their airline credit cards... that is why I got the Known Traveler Number.

I still get PreCheck printed on boarding passes. My wife gets it too as she's connected with my account.

I've got over 1.8 million flight miles. The credit card points have taken me well over two million.


Well good for you and your wife....

She enjoys first class trips on miles.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 12:00 AM

Wow. I used to travel for work, mostly domestic. Coach is bad enough cross-country, horrible across an ocean.

Mike
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
[
She enjoys first class trips on miles.


Better burn those miles... many of the airline are going to a segment / ticket dollar model per year similar to Southwest and a few of the other cheapies... Seems those upgrades will not be available unless you have status...

http://thepointsguy.com/2017/01/aa-2017-elite-spend-requirements/





Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by mbounds
Your argument is invalid.


What would you propose in lieu of some form of identification?

Is there a way to establish that a person walking up is:
- Registered to vote
- Resides in the precinct
- Has not had their right to vote revoked (i.e., felony conviction, prior fraud conviction, etc)
- HAS NOT VOTED ALREADY (by mail, in another precinct, etc)



And those who cannot or will not present identification are still allowed to vote a provisional ballot. The canvassing board then establishes the eligibility of this voter (not the polling station) and counts the vote if they are eligible.

So there is a way that someone with no ID can vote legally. It's just a bit more time consuming than the more automated systems.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 03:04 PM

I think my biggest challenge at the voting station for people with no ID is that we couldn't establish exactly which ballot they were supposed to get..

Several precinct lines intersected our voting location, so I had 7 or 8 ballot "styles" which corresponded to various senate, legislative and county seats.

So two people living next door to each other could, in theory, have two different ballot styles if the boundaries crossed between them.

I saw this issue firsthand as we had a van drop off several folks with no address or identification. One person did give the name of a local homeless shelter so we used that address as their residence and issued a provisional ballot. Only one other person gave vague directions to his location (obviously didn't want us knowing which lot he has used) so that's all we could do (issue provisional).

Being that we have a large undocumented population in FL, it would be nice to know if there is a means to identify those eligible voters without some form of documentation?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by mbounds
Your argument is invalid.


What would you propose in lieu of some form of identification?


For the downtrodden that can't get to or afford a photo ID.... let them show their Obamacare card.... after all this is a mandate that everyone has coverage and in order to get coverage what do you have to do? Provide what again?

Oh! Thought so...

Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by mbounds
Your argument is invalid.


What would you propose in lieu of some form of identification?

Is there a way to establish that a person walking up is:
- Registered to vote Voter Registration database that conforms to a minimal national standard available 6 months prior to election. States can reconcile the data on the voting roles at their option
- Resides in the precinct Two forms of US mail or ID with current address[dated within the past 6 months

-Has not had their right to vote revoked (i.e., felony conviction, prior fraud conviction, etc) That is a state issue... Up to them to build the court database and reconcile.... Personally think that once you serve your time... You are automatically reinstated as a full citizen. Hell a govener can blanket pardon all convicted voters and restore their voting rights... see VA
- HAS NOT VOTED ALREADY (by mail, in another precinct, etc[/color])State issue again... They maintain the voter role. Purge duplicate entries and If they send an absentee ballot then only provisional ballot at the poll



And those who cannot or will not present identification are still allowed to vote a provisional ballot. The canvassing board then establishes the eligibility of this voter (not the polling station) and counts the vote if they are eligible.

So there is a way that someone with no ID can vote legally. It's just a bit more time consuming than the more automated systems.


I don't think provisional ballots are a universal option. I think progressive states have put these procedures in place to preserve the constitutional right... Other states... meh....

The ultimate answer to absolute ballot fidelity is a national ID. Not sure if you want to trade your notion of civil liberties AND the risk of Identity Fraud for absolute certainty in voting.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 05:00 PM

I'm pretty liberal about a lot of things, but WOW is that a stretch. Giving up civil liberties to have an ID? What civil liberties?

I don't think there's anything in the Constitution that states you have the right to be anonymous and have access to any other right. The Constitution is for citizens, without an ID, how does anyone prove they're a citizen?

I don't think that anyone passing through the country (or worse) gets the right to vote.

Don't forget, at the time the Constitution was written, physical access to the country was quite difficult.

Mike
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/04/17 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
I'm pretty liberal about a lot of things, but WOW is that a stretch. Giving up civil liberties to have an ID? What civil liberties?

I don't think there's anything in the Constitution that states you have the right to be anonymous and have access to any other right. The Constitution is for citizens, without an ID, how does anyone prove they're a citizen?

I don't think that anyone passing through the country (or worse) gets the right to vote.

Don't forget, at the time the Constitution was written, physical access to the country was quite difficult.

Mike


I'm not sure who brought up "civil liberties" but is about whether or not you a making an unnecessary barrier to vote for those that do not have an ID.

I fully support needing to register to vote (free) ahead of time so your name will show up on a registry for an extended period (years). This action is easy enough to support/promote with very little burdon on the citizens. The state is responsible to eliminate people from those registration lists upon death, incarceration, or change of citizenship. If you are not registered, i.e. on the list at your polling station, you don't get to vote at your polling station.

There has not been established any concrete (or significant) issue of voter fraud when IDs are not required. From a historical perspective, simply having the ability to posses a photo ID is a relatively modern capability and one that is deeply overshadowed by a long history where such an ID wasn't even a technical possibility.

This country came a long way allowing for voting without IDs for a hell-uv-a long time. Remind me why it needs to change.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/05/17 01:41 AM

Sorry! .... I introduced a new issue in a misguided attempt to make it uncomfortable for the pro photo ID crowd to maintain their support for the silly notion that photo ID helps any actual problem... (other then not stopping the wrong people voting in the first place)

The conservative half of the country goes bonkers at the notion that the Federal government will require all citizens to carry a national ID card (in addition to all of the state ID cards for privileges that you carry).

Of course, If everyone had a national ID card (aka passport) and was required to have one and update it every 10 years.... then the non existent voter fraud due to lack of photo ID problem would diminish further.

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/05/17 03:28 PM

I suggested that anyone who wishes not to provide ID just request a vote-by-mail ballot. That goes to the address of the person registered in that precinct. Problem solved, right?

Now, on to those who wish to vote but have no permanent address..

The utility bills can be used to get another form of photo/signature ID, but without some form of ID, the person holding that utility bill cannot prove they are the same.

Perhaps a tangent discussion is that with all the people that are ELIGIBLE to vote, less than 40% actually do. So we're fighting for the few folks that don't have some form of identification while we ignore the vast majority that are too lazy to vote (by mail or in person).

And the other issue is those seasonal residents who may try to register in both locations (north and here).

There are actually 2 separate databases we use at the voting location to verify a person. But that all relies on being able to verify that the person standing in front of us is actually the person they say they are. Hence the requirement for some sort of photo/signature ID.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/05/17 03:39 PM

The thought occurred to me regarding all the transient folks in my particular area... They have to obtain a resident ID card to pick up their paycheck(s). The employer often obtains them (or pays for the fee) for the employees...

but that's back to the "having a job" thing as a form of poll tax.


Those in line at the SSN and/or Gub'ment benefits office already have a form of ID used to prove voter eligibility

So we're talking about those folk with no address and no employment.

I think the "Grahm Stain" ink on the finger can help stop the multiple-vote people...

Perhaps the utility bill can help with the folks with no ID. The database would show if the person on the utility bill voted already or not.

But what of those eligible voters that live in a house where the utility bill is in someone else's name? Like a parent, or perhaps a domestic partner?

Splitting hairs on how to make everyone eligible to vote is a great thought experiment, but I doubt it amounts to a substantial percentage of voters who would otherwise be able to cast ballots?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/06/17 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by brucat
I don't know if that's "good." How many years of your life do you spend in an airliner seat to accumulate 1.8 million miles?

Mike



About 3000 hours if your traveling at an average of 600 mph. Rough numbers.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/06/17 01:13 PM

It was really sort of a rhetorical question, lol...

Mike
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/06/17 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I suggested that anyone who wishes not to provide ID just request a vote-by-mail ballot. That goes to the address of the person registered in that precinct. Problem solved, right?

Now, on to those who wish to vote but have no permanent address..

The utility bills can be used to get another form of photo/signature ID, but without some form of ID, the person holding that utility bill cannot prove they are the same.

Perhaps a tangent discussion is that with all the people that are ELIGIBLE to vote, less than 40% actually do. So we're fighting for the few folks that don't have some form of identification while we ignore the vast majority that are too lazy to vote (by mail or in person).

And the other issue is those seasonal residents who may try to register in both locations (north and here).

There are actually 2 separate databases we use at the voting location to verify a person. But that all relies on being able to verify that the person standing in front of us is actually the person they say they are. Hence the requirement for some sort of photo/signature ID.


but whats the issue you are trying to solve? What are the numbers behind it? Is it worth disenfranchising 3.3 million voters to fix it?
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/06/17 05:18 PM

Maybe. How many do you disenfranchise by not cleaning this up?

Again, lots of people already think voting is fixed, I don't think we don't should wait to prove that it is.

Just for the record, I'm not completely convinced that there's a problem where I live (or I would have stopped voting long ago), but I don't assume everything runs as smoothly everywhere.

Mike
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/06/17 08:10 PM

Ok..

what is your definition of disenfranchise?

What exactly is there to clean up?

What is the basis for thinking that voting is "fixed"... by whom and how?

Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/06/17 08:20 PM

I've already covered my thoughts on these questions earlier in the thread...

Mike
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/07/17 01:05 AM



Quote
Maybe. How many do you disenfranchise by not cleaning this up?


How do you, Mike, personally LOSE your franchise to vote... Say, I wander up to your township and find a way to cast a vote?

the notion of franchise is not some zero sum game as you are implying......my action has no effect on your behavior or properly recorded vote. your franchise is not effected.

It is like your franchise to free speech in the public square... I have NOTHING to do with your franchise... Now, i can shout and shout you down but you still have the franchise to free speech. I have disrupted the listeners by my shouting..but your franchise is not impacted. (only the government could shut you down... BUT we have a constitution that protects that right... unlike say the Brits)

You conflate the franchise to vote and to free speech with a preferred result. Your team wins the election OR your listeners get to hear your speech.

Trump makes the same error. The Russians did lots of things to sway the election for Trump.... Trump thinks that people will assume that the russians took away their franchise to vote. Liberals think that the russians took away THEIR franchise to vote.... Both argue that Trumps victory is or is not legit BUT... it doesn't work that way!

In fact... you can make a VERY STRONG case that the republican actions in Florida in 2000 actually took away FLA voters franchise. They argued that hanging chads were not votes and in fact argued that those ballots should not be counted... Now THAT was disenfranchisement.

Closing a polling place early or having half the machines broken are cases of disenfranchisement. NOT YOURS.... its the voter who CAN't vote that is impacted

Your argument
Quote
Maybe. How many do you disenfranchise by not cleaning this up?

is not an argument... just a complaint that you MIGHT not get your desired result.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/07/17 04:36 PM

I'm an enigma in your fight. I actually don't care who wins (especially this last election), I only care that the results are correct, based on actual citizens voting. Sorry if I didn't somehow make that point clearly enough

Mike
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 12:42 AM

Quote
the results are correct, based on actual citizens voting.


Once again.... fuzzy thinking... What do you mean by "correct" (This is what you are not clear about)

fair? honest? duly recorded? your side wins? Puerto Ricans can vote? Dual citizens can vote? the idiots can't, the mentally incompetent don't vote? ONLY people who can make it to a polling place? slaves don't vote? woman don't vote? non property owners don't vote? uneducated don't vote? You must be able to read to vote? Or... the position you seem to fix on... must have a photo ID.

Some of my possible answers to your request of "correct" are fuzzy eg FAIR... others are specific eg woman can't vote! Some have been rectified and other issues... nominally rectified. (see voting rights act) All have to stand up to the test of... Is this a barrier to YOUR franchise to vote.

The problem you seem unwilling to address is that the gap between "correct" and "franchise to vote in a democracy by citizens" is enormous and the issue is... what are the details?.

I repeat... NO ONE in the debate is saying non citizens should have "no" barrier to voting. Lord knows... they can politic in elections just like citizens and hope to influence your vote. (see Russia and Israel, and many other countries)

The only completely accurate system with integrity would be for EVERY man woman and child in the country to have a single government issued ID card (aka passport) updated every XXX years and show that along with local address documentation to VOTE. This system eliminates the gap between "correct" and "actual citizens" voting

Short of that... what trade-offs do you want to make? and what set of facts supports the need for your system and would explain what you mean by "correct"?
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 03:07 AM

Why does your argument have to include so many negatives. I neither said, nor implied, nor believe any of those horrible things.

If the poor folks volunteering to work at the poll can't figure out if Voter X is a citizen, we have a problem.

If you're happy that the current system can do that, fine. I don't think everyone shares that opinion. Even if it's fake news, or whatever, this is something that we should be able to handle at this point in history.

Mike
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 03:52 AM

This nicely sums up the intelligentsia that have fought tooth and nail against the ACA/Obamacare. The stoopid is strong in this one.

This Image Explains The ACA Debate I Hear Every Day
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 08:36 AM

Mike,

The people at the polls are not Carnac the magnificent... they can't suss out.. who is and who is not a legal voter.. All they can do... is enforce the current set of rules. In this country... each state and locale sets the rules and history has shown that many tilt the playing field against some classes of voters. I have seen NO evidence that Poll workers are raising alarm bells about illegal voters and their inability to run an election by the letter AND spirit of the law. However, politicians and power brokers use the issue to gain power.

So... we DON'T have a problem at the polls experienced by poll workers ...... we have lots of noise about an unproven problem... that nobody can measure the amount of or ID the actual perps and then prosecute them. Moreover, these states put in place barriers that disenfranchise legitimate voters. A true Flim Flam.. The federal courts have tossed many of these rules out the window. The fight continues because its just about power and money.

I am not arguing that you in fact believe many of those issues. Don't throw up a red herring...
Of course you recognize American History and these were issues that faced the country... and slowly but surely (major war involved for one of them ...) we resolved most of these issues. Again, history shows that the arguments against members of the community being granted full CITIZENSHIP were mostly self serving power grabs by the powers in charge. Of course,they wrapped their crap argument in nice words to justify their position as fair, reasonable and of course... all American.

So, is history repeating itself? ..

Is the current noisy campaign about the supposed lack of integrity in the voting system... and the FRAUD we supposedly suffer... a legit issue... or just the usual trojan horse for yet another power grab.

the problem you have is... You take as evidence that "many people are of the OPINION that there is a problem of in person voter fraud.

I have one friend who argues... well... OK... in North Carolina... it's clearly racist actions to cut the blacks out.. BUT in Southern CAl... his cousins tell him how bad the mexican voter fraud problem is... and THAT is where the real problem is... and well... you can't prove it.. (for some reason) His "logic" is identical to yours. So, the rules to stop it are "justified".

Opinions are not facts, evidence, or proof.... When you base your stand on opinion and look the other way at the evidence for disenfranchisement... you are in the same boat as all those citizens who argued that... blacks should not vote, ditto woman, etc etc etc. Doesn't really matter if you believe that crap or not. You are in the boat with all of the others.

Yours is not a principled argument (that is OK)... its just an expression of majority rules politics wrapped in face saving rhetoric that shows that you are "fair minded" and "really" a proponent of common sense solutions.
Is that where you want to be?
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 01:22 PM

I challenge all the posters on the subject of voting to go to the classes and become a poll worker and then report on what they have seen.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 01:39 PM

Mark, you make sense until you start wrapping the hatred and problems of the past and bigger "power players" into the argument. Now I can't have an opinion that our system could use enhancement without being accused, or at least associated with, evil and second-handedness?

And I'm the one with the problem?

I have no secret agenda, and generally despise politics. The only votes I don't want counted are fraudulent ones.

I already told you what they do in my town, and I don't think it's fair. Send in a census by mail, walk right in, give your name and address and vote. No census, go show your ID to a separate desk and get back in line. Sure, this is better than nothing, and probably eliminates most fraud, but seems like a double standard (some show IDs, others don't).

Again, I don't think we have a problem yet (at least not enough to actually change a result), but why wait until we can prove an election was rigged? That would be a mess from which we'd never want to have to recover.

Mike
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
...

Again, lots of people already think voting is fixed, I don't think we don't should wait to prove that it is.

...


This is why we are at an impasse. There is NO actual evidence of a problem but there are drastic changes taking place to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Those drastic changes are tilting the ability of people to vote unanimously in favor of republicans. You don't see this as a gigantic problem and threat to democracy? C'mon guys, you at least have to know that there is a problem before you justify messing with voting rights or you just need to admit that the system is being changed/rigged to favor one party over the other. THIS action is what is rigging the votes - you can't see that?

You are taking it on "faith" that there is some non-quantifiable problem with voting that can only be fixed by eliminating a certain category of voter that just happens to tilt the voting in your favor...That's koolaid drink turning into serious landscape changing activity. That's scary stuff.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
.

If the poor folks volunteering to work at the poll can't figure out if Voter X is a citizen, we have a problem.


Actually, Mike, the poll workers only have to verify that the person standing in front of them is ELIGIBLE to vote. It's not our job to determine WHY (as in, citizen or whatever).

And to Jake's point, we are discussing ways to bring in that last (estimated) 1% of the people who COULD be eligible to vote but for some reason AREN'T able to vote (transportation, identification, etc).

Does missing this 1% disinfranchise the 99%? Not sure.

I can't personally believe that the low overall voter turnout numbers are only due to the problem of getting those few that slip through the cracks a ballot...

What was the turnout this election cycle (eligible voters vs. those that actually voted)? Maybe 50%-60%?

As hotly contested and vitriolic as it was, you'd think the turnout to vote (by mail, in person, etc) would be higher. Especially given how many people have made comments about the election. So it's not like this was one of those election dates that people forgot about.

So in my mind, there are other reasons people don't exercise their right to select leadership. Not because they can't find a way to cast a ballot.

Your thoughts?
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 06:18 PM

Good points. The registration process should determine who's eligible (citizen or not), correct?

Turnout is never 99% (missing just the 1% you mentioned).

I think this past election drove us into four groups: Those who voted for Trump (or against Hillary), those who voted for Hillary (or against Trump), those who thought they were both bad, but voted for who they thought would do the least damage, and those who were so disgusted with the choices that they just stayed home.

I think the last group was bigger than usual, and probably answers to your question. There are always people who stay home because they don't think their vote counts (like if you live in a state that one party "always" wins, and you'd prefer the opposite candidate).


BTW, how many homeless/jobless people are actually registering and voting? I think both sides are coming up with some pretty implausible arguments.

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 10:01 PM

I would agree with you Mike.

It seems that everyone's upset based on the results rather than a particular issue with the process. But they blame the process as "rigged". As of yet, I haven't seen any credible (or even plausible) theory on how it was rigged.

We got on a tangent regarding people and their ability to vote, but I think we can agree that those who weren't able to vote were overshadowed by those who chose not to vote.

Maybe I've missed an important topic as to date I haven't read the details on how this election process was rigged (other than disinformation campaigns and allegations of "Pay to stay home" campaigns).
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/09/17 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by brucat


BTW, how many homeless/jobless people are actually registering and voting? I think both sides are coming up with some pretty implausible arguments.

Mike


It's not implausable. In fact, the only actual fact that has come up on this topic is the number of voters that don't have the ID's to vote in their areas. You can't gloss this over:

From HERE
A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters donít have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting.

...

Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driverís license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.



From HERE

The 2001 Carter-Ford Commission on Election Reform found that between 6-11 percent of voting-age citizens lack driverís license or alternate state-issued photo ID.
A 2007 Indiana survey found that roughly 13 percent of registered Indiana voters lack an Indiana driverís license or an alternate Indiana-issued photo ID.
In a 2009 study in Indiana, Professors Matt Barreto, Stephen NuŮo, and Gabriel Sanchez found that election restrictions like voter ID laws have the greatest impact on the elderly, racial and ethnic minorities, immigrants, those with less educational attainment and lower incomes. The professors found that of the citizen adult population, 81.4% of all white eligible adults had access to a driverís license, whereas only 55.2% of black eligible adults had the same access. Indeed, study after study has similarly concluded that burdens to voting have a large and disparate impact on individuals with fewer resources, less education, smaller social networks, and those who are institutionally isolated.
The 2007 study, Voter ID Requirements and the Disenfranchisement of Latino, Black, and Asian Voters, based on exit polls from the 2006 elections in California, New Mexico, and Washington State, found that minority voters are less likely than whites to be able to present photo identification.
Many citizens who believe they have valid and sufficient photo IDs often do not. A national survey conducted after the November 2008 election found that 95% of respondents claimed to have a driverís license, but 16% of those respondents lacked a license that was both current and valid. So of the of Americans who possess a photo ID, many lack proper identification that would enable to them to vote in elections under the new laws passed in Wisconsin, Kansas, Texas, South Carolina, and under legislation pending in many more states.


Additional studies and research findings on voter ID are collected here .


The voter fraud "problem" is made up. The number of people without IDs is not.
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/10/17 03:27 PM

It's all garbage, on both sides.

We need politicians worth our votes, then people will make the effort to register and vote. Even if that means getting an ID.

Mike
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/10/17 05:42 PM

Quote


I would agree with you Mike.

It seems that everyone's upset based on the results rather than a particular issue with the process. But they blame the process as "rigged".


Mikes starts with a principled and truly American stand that American citizens and only American citizens should determine their future by casting legal and proper ballots. He doesn't pay attention to the specifics about how the principle actually works out in the real world and doesn't want to think critically about the policies.

Over the course of US history... we have patched the constitution up to reflect this principled ideal.... the patches are reactions to the power politics of each era. At any moment in US History... on the ground.... the American principle is just a fig leaf to mask power politics that gain you power. The patches come about when those politics are defeated.

Quote
It seems that everyone's upset based on the results

No!
the voting ID thing has been going on for 10+ years as part of a deliberate republican strategy of voter suppression to maximize their results. Many of the photo ID court cases predate the supreme courts decision on voting rights title 9? (pre clearance). The southern states were held back from these campaigns because of (pre clearance rules) ergo... North Carolina's situation.

Same as it every was.... take the American principle and use it to mask your power politics game.

If you had not noticed the attack on voting rights aka voter suppression... ... you simply were not the target... and had the luxury of being ignorant about the power politics at work. (remember... it's not a zero sum game here)

The basic idea is the same ol same ol.... Group X is taking the goodies from god fearing true American patriots. So, by god... vote for us and we will stop it... This is human nature...... You can disguise this motivation by attempting to wrap it up in the american ideal of voting and democracy... but its just a racket. Power politics wrapped up language that allows you to pretend that you are indeed principled and truly american.

There is nothing principled about voter photo ID.. it is just the latest strategy in voter suppression to win and hold power. What is needed is critical thinking by each voter if you want to go back to taking a principled American stand....

Step one in the critical thinking process is... what is the data... How good are the measurements and what is the weakness of the data. Jake nicely sums up the available data.

You can question the data collection, statistical analysis, relevance etc etc.. to sort out the actual reality... but you need to have much more then..
Quote
But they blame the process as "rigged"
or as my friend uses... anecdotal opinions about illegal Mexicans voting in So Cal. This is critical thinking!

AND... nothing says that you have to take an AMERICAN principled stand on these issues.. It is the USA. you can stand up an say... I am a Zionist... uber Israel... I am a White Nationalist (uber David Duke and the KKK) ... i am a black nationalist (uber the black muslims and Farrakhan)...or I am a Bernie supporter... uber Democratic Socialism... or simply HEY, get real.... its about winning... I want mine! do what ever it takes.

Finally,
Quote
It seems that everyone's upset based on the results


Negative campaigning works, (as old as the country) Voter suppression works as well (an equal ugly record), moreover, the degree to which voter suppression and negative campaigning drive voter disgust with the entire process is a major factor in the embarrassing (for the supposed premier democracy on the planet) voter participation rates. ("It's rigged"... is just more bs that lets the voter off the hook by blaming "others" or... the whine... "we just need better candidates" Nope... its the voters responsibility...)

I premised my stand on "American citizens and only American citizens should determine their future by casting legal and proper ballots" and the standard... the will of the people will carry the day. Sadly, this is JUST NOT REALTY. What we are upset about is how disinformation and propaganda marshaled by the international right wing AND coupled with negative campaigning, character assassination, and voter suppression are able to impact a minority of the voters in a quirky system to take power.

All I can do.. is point out the fuzzy thinking at play that led to 48% of the country calling the shots for the 51% of the country of voters ... not to mention the enormous number of citizen non voters.

Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/10/17 08:51 PM

"...moreover, the degree to which voter suppression and negative campaigning drive voter disgust with the entire process is a major factor in the embarrassing (for the supposed premier democracy on the planet) voter participation rates."

Mark, on this, we fully agree.

There's just too much paranoia and vitriol in the rest. Stop insulting people who have a different opinion than yours.

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/10/17 09:16 PM

Don't have a photo/signature ID? THEN VOTE BY MAIL

See the attached Florida voter registration form. It DOES NOT REQUIRE anything other than social security number....

You get your ballot by mail, so I guess you can't be homeless...

Only those folk who choose to show up at the voting station would need to show ID to prove who they are.

Perhaps that helps circumvent the "poll tax" argument and the barrier to voter registration? Voter registration form


Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/10/17 11:09 PM

Mike... this is a debate... I am not intending to insult you... I am challenging your position at the level of facts with respect to your belief that your position is constitutional and "American"...

My inferences are perhaps ugly... but follow from the argument and are an attempt to persuade you of the fall out from your position.

If you agree with Jake's set of facts... and then form an opinion after that.... I want to understand how you get there. What is the reasoning.. I may or may not agree... but first step is to understand what the reasoning you are using is. After this last election... I refuse to let fuzzy thinking pass.

Or you don't agree with Jakes facts... then I want to know what you are basing your opinion on. Data that I don't know about? Data that i don't find valid?, anecdotes from your part of the country?, fox news?, what ever... If your position is not supported by facts.... all I can do is point this out and note that its unprincipled and factually not supportable. (that is not paranoia or vitriol)

As I repeatedly note... its a free country... you stand for any principal and opinion on any basis you want... but... if you enter the debate... the game is ... you get to defend it. I suggested a range of other principled positions... some particularly odious. All of those principled positions don't speak to the AMERICAN Principle of voting/citizenship. So Why raise them? Not to insult you or infer that you support any of them. .... but to point out the basic requirement: Sure, you can SAY you hold the shared American principle, but presumably your argument on the voting issue is logical. A shared principle not supported by reality in facts or by action is a waste of energy (So... once again,... what is the logic in your position?)

So, please explain why you find this debate paranoiac or vitriolic? I draw harsh inferences and point them out... but that is NOT saying that is your position Its a debate the contrast is needed to focus the argument that a principled position is founded on facts supporting your principles... you get to counter and argue a position as well.!

Consider this alternative to principled voting.
My sister voted for trump.... when I asked why... she said... I don't know anything about any of these policies ... either Clinton or Trump... but I want a change and he is different. So, she makes no argument... she makes no pretense of standing on a principle of any kind... She makes no attempt to persuade or justify her vote on any principled ground.
So, if she is not standing on principle... she is voting a value. OK, what does she value in voting? The only value that she expressed was ... she values change? When you ask her... what change does she wants to see?.... She said... too many "poor black and uneducated white people" are now showing up in her hospital because of obamacare. I asked... what is the problem... Too many poor people?... or too much medical care?.... She had no thoughtful answer beyond both! AND that is OK!.. She just wanted a change... and to hope for "better" whatever that is. It doesn't have to make sense either... That is the thing about values... they are what they are... They are not persuasive,don't have to make a bit of sense or be based in reality (of course there is more of a chance they are shared values if based in reality) and what you value can change in an instant.

So, not much to debate with my sister and thus learn from her. She does not have a logical position... there is not much to learn from in her experience living in the country... and no chance that any argument of any kind could change her opinion.

Since, I know my sister from her beginnings... I was not surprised... Why did I bother?... Because, my civics education stressed responsibility to vote... and the other part... you must be responsible for your vote.. The point I make to my sister is... OK... I got it... you voted on what you value. So... you voted... that is half of your citizen responsibility. Good news!, you are responsible for Trump and his politics and actions going forward. (and if you did not vote... you are saying... whomever wins... well that is OK with you) All of us, trump voter, clinton voter and the feckless who did not vote or voted otherwise are responsible.

So, If Trump takes action on starting the torture process back up (as he repeatedly promised) ... He does it in the name of the USA and we are responsible. You can't wiggle out of responsibility for your vote. You have to own it...

So, while I may disagree with Obama on some decisions.... I understand his principles, hold most of them as well and I can argue from the facts in the real world, applying my principles and supporting my opinion and Obama's actions.





Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/11/17 12:17 AM

Jay, your point is just a work around for the possible disenfranchisement. Not a problem, it works,... just not the point and does not address the fairness component.

The state of Washington has NO polling places... all voting is by mail. Problem solved...everyone is equal... nobody is disenfranchised but again..that is not really the point.

The game being played is how to disenfranchise some voters to gain an edge in particular states ... power politics wrapped up in a warm fuzzy blanket of American Principles.

This is NOT a game of how to make a bullet proof and fair system that removes barriers to the full exercise of citizenship.

So far... we have solutions the fully enfranchise all voters... they are.

Vote by mail, all citizens,.... State of Washington.

Or National ID system that is mandatory and free to all citizens.

Almost all of the new laws go in the opposite direction.
As several courts have judged.
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/12/17 03:06 AM

Bump
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/12/17 11:17 AM

bump
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/12/17 02:39 PM

Did this thread really need a bump?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/12/17 04:34 PM

I personally prefer the vote-by-mail process Mark. Not sure why we even need the physical polling stations and all the associated hassle.

A very good question I will pose to the supervisor of elections.

I guess my follow-up to your point on voting by mail is how does one go about registering to get such a ballot, and what does one need to do to prove they are eligible to vote?
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/12/17 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Did this thread really need a bump?


Quote of the year...

Mike
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/12/17 10:25 PM

Haha not for me to moderate but to be honest more talk on this thread that on any other, it will sink when more people talk sailing, RIP Rick
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 02:21 AM

Ah.... there again is the issue. Voting registration is up to each state and ... you can play games at the registration of voting level as well. The difference is.. disputes have time to be sorted out.

RE: 100 percent mail ballots
People think there is something important about election day Its the way it has always been...Something about civics of the crowds in voting..lines etc etc... BECAUSE!.. And of course "Last minute bombshells" are able to shift results.
Remember... Comey weighed into this election for the THIRD time... two or so days before hand. The Bush drunken driving charge was two weeks etc etc... Politicians like the high stakes of VOTING DAY.. Data show... that if your football team wins the Sunday before... the more likely you vote the incumbent. Passions carry the day.... The Princeton Poly sci group say FBI's Comey's 2nd intervention caused a 4 percent swing.... of which 2 percent held through election day.

So, I agree the uniform vote by mail is a preferable system. The argument against it... is... What happens with late breaking information that could change your vote.... Don't we NEED a polling station.. My answer... Its like your taxes... postmarked by such and such a day and time... ITS A VOTE... it gets counted. Otherwise its a spoiled ballot... So... you could wait to the very very last minute if that is what you want... Otherwise... the first count of votes is issued on election night. And in tight races... whenever everything gets counted...

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 02:20 PM

Ooooh, a little gem in there Mark... "spoiled ballot"...

So if you vote by mail you only get one shot to fill it out as you want it. If you screw it up (fill it out wrong - can't be in pencil) or mark it up so it's not read... you can't ask to get another mailed to you...


Another question I'm asking the elections supervisor: If you "spoil" a vote-by-mail ballot, can you see when/why it wasn't tabulated, and can you do anything about it (like vote in person)...?

I believe the mail ballots aren't counted until after election date so if they're f'd up then you don't get a re-do.

If you vote in person and by mail (the database tells you that a ballot was mailed) you commit fraud
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 03:10 PM

Hmm... voter error ??

I have to admit... I have clicked enter on the voting machine and then had a brief panic attack that I filled it out incorrectly as I walk away.

In my states machine era... You clicked enter and that was a final decision. No oops... I want a redo opportunity.

In my states scantron era... I don't know... If you walk up with a ballot that you have not scanned and spoiled in some way... I would assume... they record destroying the bad one and give you another go... Once it enters the scanner... finished..

I take the word "cast" as meaning a once and done final decision.... No Redos.... So... I cast my vote by postmarking it. hitting enter on the machine... or stuffing it into the scanner.

So, I would imagine... IF you want a redo of your spoiled ballot that is still in your possession... you get a redo. Once you post mark it... or scan it... or click enter... You are finished.

Personally, I don't see how "Rules" on the orderly management of vote collection are in any way disenfranchising a voter. Do you have an argument on this issue that I am missing?

The small d democratic principle is that citizens have the right and duty to vote and the state has the responsibility to maximize the opportunity to vote and conduct the voting fairly.. with out disenfranchising anyone... or favoring one party.

in this light.... "to cast" is a final irrevocable action and small d democratic.

One interesting thought came up.... If you have mail in ballots... How do you ensure privacy... How far must the state go to allow you /ensure that you CAN vote in privacy.. If you mail ballots to husband and wife... What stops one individual from coercing the other to vote a certain way. Should the state HAVE to provide a public polling place?
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Did this thread really need a bump?


Uhhh, no.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
It's all garbage, on both sides.

We need politicians worth our votes, then people will make the effort to register and vote. Even if that means getting an ID.

Mike


Not if that means getting an ID. It changes the rules and excludes a very certain demographic from voting, for no good reason other than tilting the vote in a particular flavor. It's not complicated. It's evil. Stop changing the rules that don't need to be changed. There is no fraudulent voting of any scale that makes changing these rules necessary. The line of thinking that there is fraud that must be fixed by requiring IDs is a lie. Plain and simple. That lie is created to make it harder for a certain demographic to place a vote. That benefits the people that are continuing the lie. This isn't complicated.

I'm easy to convince that IDs are necessary. Just show me where the actual fraud is that these rules will protect us from. Certainly you would agree, that given the amount of energy put into these ID laws, that if there was wide scale voter ID fraud that was swinging elections that it would be pretty easy to detect and show. Nobody has been able to do that - why? It's a lie.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider



In my states scantron era... I don't know... If you walk up with a ballot that you have not scanned and spoiled in some way... I would assume... they record destroying the bad one and give you another go... Once it enters the scanner... finished..


Yup. If you marked it wrong, you "spoil" that one and get a new one (subject to a max of 3 tries).

If it won't go in the scantron (keeps getting pushed back) you get to keep trying until it works (the voter is the only one handling the ballot). But once accepted your vote is "cast" and you are done.


On the privacy at home voting thing, you have an envelope for the ballot that goes in the mailing envelope. So I guess you could vote your conscience and then seal it up so your spouse can't get eyes on it...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 08:00 PM

and good point Jake.

If you didn't see earlier our state's voter registration form doesn't require any ID other than knowing your SSN.

These forms are available on the web, libraries, at any election/driver license office, and are handed out on a regular basis by any political activity group.

So perhaps that might ease (or eliminate) the "poll tax" argument.

Although you do have to mail your ballot which is something like $0.60 now?
Posted By: brucat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/13/17 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
Haha not for me to moderate but to be honest more talk on this thread that on any other, it will sink when more people talk sailing, RIP Rick


Agreed. I'm done here. Hopefully this dies faster than the drill thread.

I respect that there are those here with a different opinion on this topic than mine. Hopefully the feeling is mutual.

Mike
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/14/17 01:55 AM

Nope... no pass... on the can't we just set aside our differences of opinion.

Mike, were it just a benign difference of opinion....
take a difference of opinion on war and peace... while in no way inconsequential, is ... just a difference of opinion. (I can respect your differing opinion and be done with it. Agree to disagree and all that... I will buy you a beer) You and I don't have any responsibility in that debate. War and peace is not a constitutional issue at the core of democracy.

We have a constitutional democracy which has over the years corrected itself to reflect our American Ideal with respect to citizenship and voting. We pledge allegiance to the constitution and we take responsibility as citizens to honor, preserve and protect the constitution and the rights that it bestows. George Washington and the other founders spoke about our interdependence in our democracy. So... at stake are the rights of other citizens to vote.

Yes, you have an opinion as to these voter photo id laws and their impact on some citizens in the country. I respect that part... However, unlike a difference of opinion on war and peace, etc. I ask you to consider your responsibility as a citizen to honor and uphold the constitution. Will you test your opinion against the reality? What facts do you have that voter photo ID laws are not taking away some people's constitutional rights? What facts of jake's do you discount?

See Jake's last post and address the facts as a responsible citizen.... Not just a citizen with opinions.

Remember, The civil war was not a difference of opinion... it was a constitutional crisis. Richard Nixon precipitated a constitutional crisis when he fired all of those people at justice (separation of powers). These were not just differences of opinion. Citizens had the responsibility to resolve the issue. (eg slavery/secession and the president must obey the law)
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/14/17 07:29 PM

Trumps pretty powerful, with one tweet that the new fighter was no good, he got our parliament to start looking for a new fighter
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/15/17 11:41 AM

bump, more sailing threads if you want this one gone
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/15/17 11:09 PM

Why am I so fired up about just an "opinion" about what is at the core of a democratic republic, "voting rights".

George Bush's speech writer, Michael Gerson, wrote this this AM.

Quote
There are a lot of debunkers at work in American society. They point out that the priest is really a balding, middle-aged man with sweat stains at his armpits. They see the judge as an old woman who has the remnants of lunch caught between her teeth. They see John Lewis as just another career politician. But the priest holds the body of Christ, the judge embodies the rule of law, and Lewis once carried the full weight of Americaís promise across the Edmund Pettus Bridge.


Voting Rights are fundamental to America... We have a responsibility to protect them by debunking the noise that fuels "opinion" and remind everyone that citizen is the most powerful position in a democracy and with citizenship comes responsibility (cribbed bits from current AG).
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/16/17 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
Trumps pretty powerful, with one tweet that the new fighter was no good, he got our parliament to start looking for a new fighter

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/16/17 11:48 PM

the one with audio is much better ;-)

Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/17/17 11:55 AM

Only 3 more days until MAGA
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/17/17 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
What facts do you have that voter photo ID laws are not taking away some people's constitutional rights? What facts of jake's do you discount?


I had to clarify my earlier posts that photo ID is only required to vote in person.

A photo ID is NOT required to register to vote (or vote by mail) in my state.

Posted By: Timbo

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/17/17 08:38 PM

See below, I had to steal Jake's coding to get it to load, thanks Jake.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/17/17 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
the one with audio is much better ;-)



I like this one better still...but...

"I am not talking about the pee pee!"
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/18/17 12:38 PM

Only 2 more days to go until MAGA
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/18/17 01:46 PM

Is this really the best you guys could come up with?
He didn't even know how many countries make up Europe (something that a US president really should know IMO).

He is also becoming aware that companies are using him to recycle their old business news for cheap PR (companies don't do $1B investments decisions in a week).
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/18/17 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Is this really the best you guys could come up with?
He didn't even know how many countries make up Europe (something that a US president really should know IMO).

He is also becoming aware that companies are using him to recycle their old business news for cheap PR (companies don't do $1B investments decisions in a week).


Ya see Tony facts and intelligence are no longer relevant. Trump has promised to make white people great again and that's all that matters so anything Trump says or does is acceptable because it's all part of the plan to make Merica white and christian the way god intended!

#peepeeparty #grabthembythepussy
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/19/17 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Is this really the best you guys could come up with?


300 million people and Trump and Clinton were our only choices... yes it is pretty sad...

This was an opportunity for a third party to really shine and what did they do with their candidates... shinola comes to mind.



Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/19/17 01:49 AM

Quote
This was an opportunity for a third party to really shine


ah... now we are back to matters of opinion.. If you are a fan of 3rd parties... are you also in favor of a parliamentary system?

assuming the answer is no... as a practical matter... How would anything get done in our system with a third party president... with NO politicians of his side in the two legislative branches.. (This sounds like obama talking about hope and change in changing politics.... Nope!)


We have a two party system because that is what tends to work. Hell, Washington worried about parties given the design of the country ... The system is designed to be a FORCED CHOICE and to AMPLIFY small differences of opinion into a governing action. and it has a but.... The election is a forced choice... It's A or B.... and if you don't vote or vote third party...ONE of them wins... The system is designed to force a clear decision but over time ... that is the BUT. in two years... you get to vote in 1/3 of senate and all of the house. So that is why you build it with a forced choice. The idea is to get /force government actions and slow your roll.

Hating both candidates is unusual ... but in our system... you vote for one of them. If you don't... and then try to claim some non existent high ground... of ... a third party would have been better.... and then hating both of those guys... not to mention other people on the ballot. probably means you need to rethink how you vote in the two party system we have. Voting is not a beauty contest... its a forced choice. One of them will win. Doesn't matter if you like the choices... One of them will win.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/19/17 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

We have a two party system because that is what tends to work.


The two party system would work if the politicians understood that they are there for the people they represent not their or their party's self interest... Which as of late has become a Them vs. Us manifesto

The truth is - a two-party system isn't really that Democratic when you think about it..

Go read George Washington's farewell address.. he pretty much summed it up.

Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/19/17 07:46 PM

You know - I have not seen so much vitriol since the last time a republican was elected.

But really - this time it has gone really over the top with hints of assasination and what not. Incredible things are said on "both" sides of this. At least that is the way it looks from my side of the pond.

But let me bring a small reminder from the last time (and I really thought this guy was not the smartest dude around - but.. Come on - he was elected and the US of A is a democracy as good as any)


[Linked Image]



To be honest - even if Trump is really a special piece of work - the media does look to be pretty biased. Even over time.




Tomorrow is MAGA day - and we will see the beginning of the Trump show. I bet his viewer ratings is improving all the time. Who will he fire first - and what executive orders will we see? How is the budget going to look, if there will be a budget..

Interesting times.

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/19/17 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram

Ya see Tony facts and intelligence are no longer relevant. Trump has promised to make white people great again and that's all that matters so anything Trump says or does is acceptable because it's all part of the plan to make Merica white and christian the way god intended!


Funny you say that. My "sista from anotha mista" who happens to be non-white asked about "Make America Great... Again".

She was wondering if that meant back in the day of Jim Crowe laws and such... oof
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/19/17 11:20 PM

Quote
The truth is - a two-party system isn't really that Democratic when you think about it..


I agree... (small d democratic) The idiot Bernie supporters think that the PRIVATE Democratic Party... must be completely small d democratic... Nope... its a choice... a private party can function through smoke filled rooms as it once did. ...be much more in tune with what the founders wanted BTW ...

Quote
if the politicians understood that they are there for the people they represent not their or their party's self interest.

The devil in all of this political organizational stuff is... an attempt to answer "what do you do about human self interest when you try to govern".

Hey... the founders understood self interest.. they made SURE that the constitution allowed self interest to petition the government.

So, exactly WHO do these politicians represent. you say they don't represent the people... and/or the people's interest.

I understand and can identify a real estate developers self interest.... a teacher's self interest, a miner's self interest, a pornographers self interest. Romeny argued the buisness's were people to.... I have NO idea what the "peoples" interest is.

I can see how a politician represents my interest as a ____ .
I can ID interests for any group in the country.... eg beach access for small catamaran sailors.... VERSUS owners of coastal waterfront property. What does a politician do to represent the people's interest?

So, ... How does that self interest work with the "People's" interest?

My view is that Trump was crystal clear about who's interest he represented in the election... He is on TV now talking about his group of voters and how he will turn it around for them ...
Now of course... tomorrow, he will be trying to obfuscate that stand and say... he is for the people's interest..

same as Obama, Same as Bush, Same as Clinton, Same as Bush, Same as Reagan, Same as Carter, same as Ford, same as Nixon, same as Johnson.

Can you say... ANY of these presidents served the "people's interest in anything but name only... No!... they favored and disparaged lots of things.... and BS'd that as THOUGH it was for the "people's interest".

It's trivial to find opinion and many a fact on how each of these guys did not serve the "people's " interest....

So... IMO, I think the people's interest is a unicorn... and we would love to live in the fairy tale world of unicorns.... but that is not reality.

Seems to me...stop the fairy tale about the "people's interest" and just get down and fight it out...Put it out there... your self interest is XXX and as far as you are concerned... THAT is the people's interest.

Now if you want to talk about principals and values not interests... see the voting rights debate above. We pledge to American Principals.. (everyone's values are their values)

So perhaps the best way to deal with the unicorn called "the Peoples Interest" is contrasting Nixon and Clinton with respect to American PRINCIPALS.
When Nixon attacked the separation of powers... he was impeached ... going to lose and resigned instead. THAT was the only clear cut example of politicians operating on the American PRINCIPALS... some "peoples" interest in nixon finishing his term were killed. He WAS POPULAR until the end .. ... the universal American Principal in protecting and following the constitution as it has evolved through legitimate proscribed means was preserved.

Was it in the American Principle to impeach Clinton for an extramarital blow job and a gotcha legal proceeding answer? History would say nope... Historians have it down right now as partisan self interest. The public had clinton at 60 plus favorable through it all.

Was it on American Principles that Trump argued and promoted the fake news that Obama was illegitimate as president because he was born in Kenya? Or Self interest? Perhaps the people's interest???

Hmm...

IMO, when somebody waves the "peoples interest" at me... I take another hard look at it... Usually... its somebody's self interest at stake and not the People's Principles embodied in the constitution!
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/20/17 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Quote
The truth is - a two-party system isn't really that Democratic when you think about it..


I agree... (small d democratic)

Quote
if the politicians understood that they are there for the people they represent not their or their party's self interest.

The devil in all of this political organizational stuff is... an attempt to answer "what do you do about human self interest when you try to govern".

So, exactly WHO do these politicians represent. you say they don't represent the people...

I understand and can identify a real estate developers self interest.... a teacher's self interest, a miner's self interest, a pornographers self interest. I have NO idea what the "peoples" interest is.
I can see how a politician represents my interest as a ____ .
I can ID interests for any group in the country.... eg beach access for small catamaran sailors.
But... How does that self interest work with the "People's" interest.


My view is that Trump was crystal clear about who's interest he represented in the election... He is on TV now talking about his group of voters and how he will turn it around for them ...
Now of course... Tomorrow, he will be trying to obfuscate that stand and say... he is for the people's interest..

same as Obama, Same as Bush, Same as Clinton, Same as Bush, Same as Reagan, Same as Carter, same as Ford, same as Nixon, same as Johnson.

Can you say... ANY of these presidents served the "people's interest in anything but name only... No!... they favored and disparaged lots of things.... and BS'd that as it was for the people's interest.

It's trivial to find opinion and many a fact on how each of these guys did not serve the "people's " interest....

So... I think the people's interest is a unicorn... and we would love to live in the fairy tale world of unicorns.

Seems to me...stop the fairy tale about the "people's interest" and just get down and fight it out...Put it out there... your self interest is XXX and as far as you are concerned... THAT is the people's interest.

Now if you want to talk about principals and values... see the voting rights debate above.


My interest is what is going on in my back yard - city and county government, and at my state's legislature... that is the stuff that is going to an effect on me everyday.. These are the politics that 99% of the electorate are asleep at the switch on.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/20/17 02:44 AM

My point still applies... It's all about self interest. forget the rhetoric about "peoples interest"

So... if 99% of the electorate are asleep (sounds about right to me) what can you do?

My complaint akin to your complaint ,... If people are so damn upset... why are so many politicians re elected?

This stuff is not rational... I HATE the Patriots.... completely irrational... they have hall of fame coaching... hall of fame quarterback...can't tell you many players they win with... I just hate em... but who cares if I hate the patriots...
I think the same happens in politics for most people... You have a gut reaction...it's your team, D's or Rs... big difference... Politics has real impact on the world and people.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/21/17 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
olitics for most people... You have a gut reaction...it's your team, D's or Rs...


100% of the problem right there... we're on team D... therefore anything team R says or does is wrong no matter how right it is, it is wrong because... and Visa Versa.

Keep going, you're really helping build the argument for the need of a third party.

Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/21/17 08:24 PM

Consider this.... we have EXTREME partisanship... and weak Parties.

The Republican Party could not even nominate a Republican who would even parrot republican orthodoxy....

Parties have lost control of their message and their followers. Every Senator... thinks... I could be president... They work at being the Independent senator... D or an R SSSHH.... Every voter, says, I vote for the candidate... NOT the set of principles and values that an organized group.... aka a party stands on. The voter now believes that they should determine IF the candidate "authentically" stands on his campaign promises..

Parties are so weak... Heck, the very weak democratic party allowed a 30 year socialist candidate to join the party SOLELY to run as a democrat and then put up with him kvetching about the rules. BUT he was "authentic"

The party platform is irrelevant to every candidate in this era. Why bother... You know your side D or R .... its too damn much work to figure out what your side is actually all about... BUT you know in your bones... that the other side is WRONG WRONG WRONG. and the most important feature of a candidate is "being authentic" and you can suss that out better then anyone....

TRUMP and his voters have proven that the Republican Party orthodoxy, aka ... libertarian driven economics, limited government, freedom abroad, muscular foreign policy was not even a majority opinion within the republican rank and file. We are back to the Charles Lindburgh "America First" party of the 30s...

So... Why exactly do you think a third party makes sense... you are not looking for a party organized around some principle... ... you are looking for "the leader who captures the public for a short period of time"

In an election where... "being authentic" was won by the TV STAR over the Politician because... it was clear to the voter.. ... who was "being authentic"!

Consider, "being authentic".... is like being an actor... a great actor is a master at "being authentic" in the role.
So, what ever you do... "BE AUTHENTIC"

It's like George Costanza's view... Its' not a lie... if you believe it... aka BEING AUTHENTIC!


Well, from Trumps Speech yesterday... here we are.. you have "the Leader and his cabinet of oligarchs committed to saving The People from the carnage that is 2016 America created by the two party system of D's and Rs of the last 60 years. AND he is authentic!

Tell me why... a third party makes sense again? and standing on what philosophy... ?? Morever, the key point... can they "be authentic"?

Nope... you were right the first time... voters need to be informed on the issues, have actual facts in hand and then think about their principles and values and vote accordingly. hmm.. IT WILL TAKE A LOT OF WORK! Now, If you want to make a difference beyond your individual point of view/vote ... perhaps getting organized would make a difference.... hmm.... what should we call that thing again ....


Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 02:04 AM

I get a serious kick watching the far left freak the phuck out because Trump is now president.

What confuses me is why democrats are so up in arms about a Democrat being President.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 10:29 AM

The first press briefing was already full of easily verifiable lies, I find that very worrying.
This is not opinion or bias but just fact, it's important to be critical no matter if it's "your team" or not.

Posted By: Timbo

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 12:17 PM

On the 3 party thing, I've always considered myself an Independent voter, the left is too far left for me on some issues, and the right is equally too far right on some too. I agree with about half of each party, but cannot get 100% behind either one.

As someone mentioned earlier, the fact that these two parties could only produce these two candidates is pretty sad. Mark laid out why we have a two party system, but also if we were to have 3 parties, and say they were evenly split, 33% support of each, then no matter which party won an election, the other two parties, or a 66% majority of the population, would then be governed by a clear 33% minority, and nobody wants that.

I think both R+D are willing to submit to being governed by the other, as long as it's about a 50-50 split, they know the pendulum will swing back to their side eventually, just like it's been doing for years. 8 years of Clinton, followed by 8 years of W followed by 8 years of Obama.

But nobody wants a 3rd party to contend with, because the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 04:51 PM

Some signs from the women's march yesterday.

Donald J, Trump Will Lie About This

Super callous fascist racist extra braggadocios

Women Are the Wall
Trump Will Pay For It

Iíve seen smarter cabinets at IKEA

Hands off my twat you tweeting twit!

Tinkle tinkle little czar
Putin made you what you are

Hey, Mr Tangerine man, get impeached for me

If I incorporate my uterus, will you stop regulating it?

So bad, even introverts are here

FREE MELANIA!

Melania, blink twice if you need our help

First, they came for the Muslims and we said...
NOT THIS TIME MOTHERF****R



Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Some signs from the women's march yesterday.

Donald J, Trump Will Lie About This

Super callous fascist racist extra braggadocios

Women Are the Wall
Trump Will Pay For It

Iíve seen smarter cabinets at IKEA

Hands off my twat you tweeting twit!

Tinkle tinkle little czar
Putin made you what you are

Hey, Mr Tangerine man, get impeached for me

If I incorporate my uterus, will you stop regulating it?

So bad, even introverts are here

FREE MELANIA!

Melania, blink twice if you need our help

First, they came for the Muslims and we said...
NOT THIS TIME MOTHERF****R


But, looking at the positive of all the marching yesterday... Trump got more overweight people out walking in one day that Michelle Obama got out in eight years... cool

Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Timbo
On the 3 party thing, I've always considered myself an Independent voter, the left is too far left for me on some issues, and the right is equally too far right on some too. I agree with about half of each party, but cannot get 100% behind either one.



As someone mentioned earlier, the fact that these two parties could only produce these two candidates is pretty sad. Mark laid out why we have a two party system, but also if we were to have 3 parties, and say they were evenly split, 33% support of each, then no matter which party won an election, the other two parties, or a 66% majority of the population, would then be governed by a clear 33% minority, and nobody wants that.

I think both R+D are willing to submit to being governed by the other, as long as it's about a 50-50 split, they know the pendulum will swing back to their side eventually, just like it's been doing for years. 8 years of Clinton, followed by 8 years of W followed by 8 years of Obama.


Well done. You describe how what you value is divided between D's and Rs. That is the case for almost every voter.
You get the process.... you vote for one of them...(an as an american... you demand a fair and inclusive process) Nobody ever said... you had to like the choice.... just choose!

So, Why would just two parties form.... The answer is... How could you get anything done in the real world?

Do you have any examples in life where you have 3 groups who have to make ONE decision at a time and then repeat the process...for the next and the next.. and it never stops. I can't because human brains don't work that way... A forced choice design works and thus the two teams.

Three factions always work their way down to two... again... a forced choice.. the winner of course is always in the "public's interest" (cause they won)

So, its just one self interest beating the other self interest in the public arena with a lot of marketing.

How does that work... The system gets buy in... when they convince you, a voter, that you REALLY have autonomy and you can individually make a difference in the unicorn called a public interest.
Nope... you need group action that is directed... compare Tea Party... don't take my stuff and give it to undeserving "others" A special interest used that noise to preserve their self interest in medical and insurance policy. with MOVE ON, "we want banksters locked up and suffering" Lots of noise that went no where... Hmm whats the difference?

The republican PARTY used the noise and the system to make total resistance to insurance reform acceptable as part of a public interest fight (its what they value) ..... the democratic PARTY did not find it in their interest to use the Move on noise. (they were in power and had passed banking reform as consistent with what they value)

Yesterday, the Woman's movement generated EPIC noise on a world stage... I suspect the Dem's will follow the Republican model and mount total massive resistance with the Noise to whatever Trump and the Republicans eventually come up with.

My point... you need group action that is managed by a strong political party to get results. its hard ball! don't fall for the unicorn... of "it's the public's interest..." don't believe in fairy tales of how things work.
Its mobilized group action that is manipulated by a PARTY to move a self interest that is a shared value.

Got have both bits... and you can't undervalue either one AND the next value could differ... nothing is perfect....

Bottom line... We need to have STRONG partys... not weak ones to make a difference. Misunderstand that relationship... and you amp up your partisanship. As an individual, YOU THINK that your strong Partisanship is important...

Nope... you just made it easy for shadowy special interests to petition the government and get what they want from a weak party structure that gets rolled and paid off. (The Republican Party collapsed after McCain and Romney got crushed by a black politician in america.... the weakness in the rules and PR campaign allowed Trump. MEANWHILE, Democratic weakness allowed Bernie Saunders to rebrand himself and now they are trying to weaken the PARTY further...
You note that the weak parties we have rotate power every 8 years.... umm.... the true special interest ALWAYS win in this environment.. the more PARTISANSHIP... the easier their job to roll the individual politicians and further drive up hyper partisanship.






Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Some signs from the women's march yesterday.

Donald J, Trump Will Lie About This

Super callous fascist racist extra braggadocios

Women Are the Wall
Trump Will Pay For It

Iíve seen smarter cabinets at IKEA

Hands off my twat you tweeting twit!

Tinkle tinkle little czar
Putin made you what you are

Hey, Mr Tangerine man, get impeached for me

If I incorporate my uterus, will you stop regulating it?

So bad, even introverts are here

FREE MELANIA!

Melania, blink twice if you need our help

First, they came for the Muslims and we said...
NOT THIS TIME MOTHERF****R


But, looking at the positive of all the marching yesterday... Trump got more overweight people out walking in one day that Michelle Obama got out in eight years... cool

We Shall Overcomb

Make America Think Again

Think Outside My Box

Did You Remember To Set Your Clocks Back 60 Years Last Night?

Grab him by the midterms

If Momís Not Happy, Nobodyís Happy

Orange Is the New Fascism

Leave it to the Beavers

Viva la Vulva

This Pussy Grabs Back

Donald You Ignorant Slut

Impeach Trump, Convert Pence

Sorry World, Weíll Fix This

We Want a Leader, Not a Creepy Tweeter

1968 is Calling. Donít Answer

Fact Checkers of the World, Unite!

I know signs. I make the best signs. Theyíre great. Everyone agrees
.
Vaginas Brought You Into the World
Vaginas Will Vote You Out

I Wish My Uterus Shot Bullets So the Government Wouldnít Regulate It
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I get a serious kick watching the far left freak the phuck out because Trump is now president.

What confuses me is why democrats are so up in arms about a Democrat being President.


Let me stop you right there Kellyanne Karl, there is no way you're going to hang the dumpster fire known as Trump on the democrats. You guys bought into his rhetoric and believed he gave **** about anyone other than himself. He is all yours sunshine!



Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/22/17 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616

Vaginas Brought You Into the World
Vaginas Will Vote You Out



Where were all of those Va Jays Jays on election day?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I get a serious kick watching the far left freak the phuck out because Trump is now president.

What confuses me is why democrats are so up in arms about a Democrat being President.


Let me stop you right there Kellyanne Karl, there is no way you're going to hang the dumpster fire known as Trump on the democrats. You guys bought into his rhetoric and believed he gave **** about anyone other than himself. He is all yours sunshine!





You guys? No f-ing way would I piss a vote away for someone as far left as a republicunt, so that really rules out the democrats. I voted Johnson, but he's not nearly the libertarian he claims to be.

Donald Trump has been a registered Democrat most of his adult life. Changing a label shortly before an election changes nothing.

I wouldn't fret too much. I'd bet he won't complete a full term. Impeachment is a stretch, but him just quitting is a strong possibility. If the republicunts couldn't get slick willy out, no way will a bunch of whiny snow flake democrats get an impeachment to stick.


(edit)-. Bitch did you really unfriend me on Facebook because of this election?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616

Vaginas Brought You Into the World
Vaginas Will Vote You Out



Where were all of those Va Jays Jays on election day?

Popular vote count

Clinton - 65,844,954 (48.2%)

Trump - 62,979,879 (46.1%)

Maybe you can provide some "alternative facts" Schwantz.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616

Vaginas Brought You Into the World
Vaginas Will Vote You Out



Where were all of those Va Jays Jays on election day?

Popular vote count

Clinton - 65,844,954 (48.2%)

Trump - 62,979,879 (46.1%)

Maybe you can provide some "alternative facts" Schwantz.


Remind me again, who is residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


(edit)-. Bitch did you really unfriend me on Facebook because of this election?


So much said in one sentence.
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 04:24 PM

There is nothing that puts a bigger smile on my face than reading all the whining posts on this site.

Thank all of you for making my day
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by hobie1616

Vaginas Brought You Into the World
Vaginas Will Vote You Out



Where were all of those Va Jays Jays on election day?

Popular vote count

Clinton - 65,844,954 (48.2%)

Trump - 62,979,879 (46.1%)

Maybe you can provide some "alternative facts" Schwantz.


Remind me again, who is residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?


That's not what you asked originally Schwantz.

Trump is in the White House. Here's some thoughts about his first few days.

ďThese are not normal times. These are extraordinary times. And extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.

When you have a spokesperson for the president of the United States wrap up a lie in the Orwellian phrase "alternative factsĒÖ

When you have a press secretary in his first appearance before the White House reporters threaten, bully, lie, and then walk out of the briefing room without the cajones to answer a single questionÖ

When you have a President stand before the stars of the fallen CIA agents and boast about the size of his crowds (lies) and how great his authoritarian inaugural speech wasÖ.

These are not normal times.

The press has never seen anything like this before. The public has never seen anything like this before. And the political leaders of both parties have never seen anything like this before.

What can we do? We can all step up and say simply and without equivocation. "A lie, is a lie, is a lie!" And if someone won't say it, those of us who know that there is such a thing as the truth must do whatever is in our power to diminish the liar's malignant reach into our society.

There is one group of people who can do a lot - very quickly. And that is Republicans in Congress. Without their support, Donald Trump's presidency will falter. So here is what I think everyone in the press must do. If you are interviewing a Paul Ryan, a Mitch McConnell, or any other GOP elected official, the first question must be "what will you do to combat the lying from the White House?" If they dodge and weave, keep with the follow ups. And if they refuse to give a satisfactory answer, end the interview.

Facts and the truth are not partisan. They are the bedrock of our democracy. And you are either with them, with us, with our Constitution, our history, and the future of our nation, or you are against it. Everyone must answer that question.Ē


Keep those alternative facts coming Schwantz.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Remind me again, who is residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

[Linked Image]

Don't ya love those alternative facts Schwantz?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

(edit)-. Bitch did you really unfriend me on Facebook because of this election?


that is the funniest thing I've read on this whole thread....
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/23/17 11:34 PM

Since the period for public comment (aka "the election") is over, perhaps we could focus more on what's ahead.

To measure the administration's future performance, perhaps you could list ONLY 3 objectives that if they achieved them would constitute a "successful term".

These three priorities, then, should be the marching orders you give your elected representatives (Congress) who should then be able to push through if they have enough support?

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/24/17 01:29 AM

Were you talking to this lady Schwantz?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/24/17 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616

Keep those alternative facts coming Schwantz.


Trump won the popular vote in 31 states to Clinton's 19 and D.C. 62% to her 38%.

Hillary won California 5,860,714 to Trumpís 3,151,821. 61.6% to 33.1% exclusive of the other candidates. Thus California gave Hillary the popular vote for all states as claimed by the Democrats and their media stooges.

But deduct her California vote from her national vote leaving her with 54,978,783, and deduct Trumpís California vote from his national total, leaving him with 57,113.976, he wins in a landslide in the other 49 states, 51.3% to her 48.7%.

So, in effect, Hillary was elected president of California and Trump was elected president of the rest of the country by a substantial margin.

This exemplifies the wisdom of the Electoral College, to prevent the vote of any one populace state from overriding the vote of the others.

The Democratic party is at its lowest point since the Civil War! Could this mean the end of the Democrat Party? Now that January 20, 2017 has come and gone, the Republican Party has:

1) The Presidency.

2) A majority of the House of Representatives.

3) A majority of the Senate.

4) Almost two-thirds of all the governorships.

5) Total control of the statehouses in almost two-thirds of all the states.

And in the near future, Republicans will be able to add:

6) A majority of the Supreme Court. The above has never happened before in American history.

And why is this?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/24/17 04:04 PM

From the NY Times

Trump Repeats Lie About Popular Vote in Meeting With Lawmakers

It's not a lie, it's just alternative facts. Right Schwantz?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/24/17 04:11 PM

Is Trump mentally ill?


The first days inside Trumpís White House: Fury, tumult and a reboot
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/24/17 04:46 PM

Triumph Poops On Trump's Inauguration



ďYes, today Donald Trump will be sworn in and on Monday he will move into the White House,Ē Triumph began, ďcontinuing his long tradition of evicting black families.Ē

After the speech had ended, Triumph praised Trumpís nod to Franklin D. Roosevelt, ďwhen he said all we have to fear is fear itself, and Muslims, and Mexicans, most of the Middle East, all of Africa except South Africa, BuzzFeed, Access Hollywood, chemtrails, lizard people, undercover cops posing as hookers, undercover dudes posing a lady hookers, snakes, Saturday Night Live and backstabbing Bruce Springsteen cover bands.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/24/17 05:42 PM

Alternative Facts

ďIím a very big person when it comes to the environment. I have received awards on the environment.Ē
ó President Trump, remarks during a meeting with business leaders, Jan. 23

The Facts

The short answer is: No. Media outlets and environmental groups have tried to find evidence of this claim since 2011 but have come up short. We could not readily find references to Trumpís environmental awards in news coverage over the past 10 years. We checked with the Natural Resources Defense Council Action Fund, the Environmental Defense Fund and the Sierra Club, and none had any record of Trumpís environmental awards.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/24/17 11:22 PM


Alternative Facts

President Donald Trump believes millions of votes were cast illegally in last year's election, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said on Tuesday, but he wouldn't provide any concrete evidence for the claim, which has long been debunked.

"The President does believe that, I think he's stated that before, and stated his concern of voter fraud and people voting illegally during the campaign and continues to maintain that belief based on studies and evidence people have brought to him," Spicer said.

Pressed for what evidence exists, Spicer would say only that Trump "has believed that for a while based on studies and information he has."

When pushed about whether Trump will call for an investigation into the voter fraud, Spicer said, "maybe we will."

The Facts

A number of studies have found no evidence of widespread voter fraud. The Truth About Voter Fraud, a report written by experts at The Brennan Center for Justice, found voter fraud rates were between 0.00004% and 0.0009%.

"Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls," reads the report.

South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham slammed Trump earlier Tuesday over the claim. "I wasn't there, but if the President of the United States is claiming that 3.5 million people voted illegally, that shakes confidence in our democracy ó he needs to disclose why he believes that," Graham told CNN.

[Linked Image]

This is too easy Schwantz.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/25/17 01:59 AM

CRUSHING THE MEDIA WAS AN ORDER!

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/25/17 05:02 PM

From the Washington Post

While the phrase ďalternative factsĒ reminded many of the terms ďfalsehoods,Ē ďliesĒ and ďuntruths,Ē it reminded many others of George Orwellís dystopian, politically charged novel ď1984.Ē

- If you play George Orwell's book "1984" backwards, it says "Trump is President, Trump is President, Trump is President"

- 1984 has become the inspiring story about a man overcoming fake news to love his leader.

- #IKnewWeWereDoomed when '1984' started sounding like a current events textbook.

Not only were people inspired to tweet about that, they wanted to purchase a copy. By early Wednesday morning, the novel was the best-selling book on Amazon.com.

ďWe put through a 75,000 copy reprint this week. That is a substantial reprint and larger than our typical reprint for Ď1984,íĒ a Penguin spokesman told CNN.

ďThe party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command,Ē for example, reminded some of Spicerís argument that Trumpís inauguration had record-breaking crowds, despite obvious evidence to the contrary.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/25/17 07:09 PM

Speaker At Group Supported By Betsy DeVos Says Hitler Was Good At Reaching Children

Any thoughts on this Schwantz?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/25/17 07:16 PM

Donít look now: Itís President Pence! Donald Trump can be deposed, even without impeachment

"Donald Trump is in over his head. This comes as no surprise to the millions of people who could see that he was unprepared and unfit for the job of president of the United States and voted against him. Heís basically a celebrity heir to a fortune who was so entitled that he believed his privileged existence proved he was competent to run the most powerful nation on Earth. Thatís the attitude of an aristocrat who ascended to the throne without having any idea what it actually takes to rule. Historyís full of such men. It doesnít often work out well."

Schwantz? Schwantz? Earth to Schwantz.
Posted By: hobie1616

Eleven Stories To Watch - 01/25/17 09:00 PM

From the Washington Post

Eleven Stories To Watch

1. MOVING TO LIFT THE BAN ON CIA BLACK SITES
ďThe Trump administration is preparing a sweeping executive order that would clear the way for the Central Intelligence Agency to reopen overseas Ďblack siteí prisons, like those where it detained and tortured terrorism suspects before former President Obama shut them down,Ē the New York Timesís Charlie Savage reports.

2. MUZZLING AGENCIES:
ďTrump administration officials instructed employees at multiple agencies in recent days to cease communicating with the public through news releases, official social media accounts and correspondence, raising concerns that federal employees will be able to convey only information that supports the new presidentís agenda,Ē Juliet Eilperin and Brady Dennis report.

3. AN ASSAULT ON CLIMATE SCIENCE:
Itís not surprising that Trump followed through on promises to issue executive orders to revive the Dakota Access and Keystone XL oil pipelines, but the administration is making a much harder play below the radar to eviscerate Obamaís environmental legacy.

It has instructed EPA officials to freeze all grants and contracts, a move that could affect everything from state-led climate research to localized efforts to improve air and water quality to environmental justice projects aimed at helping poor communities.

4. BLOCKING REGULATIONS, INCLUDING ONE TO PREVENT PLANE CRASHES:
White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus issued an order Friday night to freeze all regulations that havenít yet been formally published in the Federal Register.

5. KEEPING THE DOOR OPEN TO ENTITLEMENT CUTS:
Trumpís nominee to lead the Office of Management and Budget, Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.), defended his support for cuts to popular entitlement programs that Trump vowed to keep intact during the campaign.

6. DECLINING TO COMMIT THAT CONSUMERS WILL BE BETTER OFF UNDER OBAMACARE REPLACEMENT:
Trumpís choice for health secretary repeatedly refused during his own testy confirmation hearing to promise that no Americans will be worse off under Trumpís executive order to ease provisions of the Affordable Care Act.

7. RETAINING COMEY:
Hillary Clinton believes very strongly that FBI director James Comey cost her the election with his two announcements during the run-up to Nov. 8, and sheís angry that he did not publicly discuss evidence of Russian interference on behalf of Trump.

8. SESSIONS REFUSING TO RECUSE HIMSELF:
ďAttorney general nominee Jeff Sessions wonít commit to recusing himself from potential Justice Department investigations into controversies involving Trump ó from Russia to business conflicts of interest ó despite his vigorous campaigning on behalf of Trump during the 2016 election season,Ē Politicoís Seung Min Kim reports.

9. CURTAILING ABORTION:
Flanked by a group in the Oval Office that consisted entirely of men, Trump reinstated the so-called Mexico City policy. The Reagan-era policy bans American assistance to organizations that offer abortion services, including counseling and referrals.

10. RENEGING ON PROMISES OF TRANSPARENCY
During the presidential campaign, Trump said repeatedly that he could not release his returns because he is undergoing an audit and that he would do so once that process is complete. The audit has always been a flimsy excuse. Nothing is stopping him from releasing the returns any way, and he could release previous years not under audit.

11. TAKING THE OIL
Speaking crassly in front of the honor wall at CIA headquarters in Langley, Trump said Saturday that the United States should have kept the oil after the liberation of Iraq. ďTo the victor belong the spoils,Ē he said. ďSo we should have kept the oil. But, okay, maybe youíll have another chance.Ē
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/25/17 11:54 PM

The Devos's sre sailors. Quantum Sails, a TP52 for the Med circuit, and the 80' Windquest for the Mac Race.

Lest we forget, the source on money is Amway.

The idea of privatizing our education system is another example of the money, greed and avarice mind set. I do not want my tax money to pay for an unaccountable organization.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by jkkartz1
The Devos's sre sailors. Quantum Sails, a TP52 for the Med circuit, and the 80' Windquest for the Mac Race.

Lest we forget, the source on money is Amway.

The idea of privatizing our education system is another example of the money, greed and avarice mind set. I do not want my tax money to pay for an unaccountable organization.


[Linked Image]

Amway was the company behind claiming the Proctor & Gamble logo symbolized Satanism. They were able to get dropped from the suit and left their distributors holding the bag.

P&G sued and eventually won a $19.25 million judgement.

Procter & Gamble Wins Satanic Civil Suit

Procter & Gamble wins $19 million in Satanism suit

Trademark of the Devil
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


(edit)-. Bitch did you really unfriend me on Facebook because of this election?


You told me to.

Karl Brogger: Man you have a hard on for this guy.
∑ October 13, 2016 at 7:47pm

Jake Domingo: 7+ years of my news feed polluted with thinly veiled alt right bigotry and racism then this guy comes along and tells them their white privilege is under attack by the brown people and also tells them their racism is patriotism, yeah you better believe I have a hard on for Trump. On the upside I now know a great deal more about my family and "friends" and can make changes accordingly.
∑ October 14, 2016 at 6:52am


Karl Brogger: Ha! That's funny Dave.
∑ October 14, 2016 at 8:19am

Karl Brogger: Btw, you can delete me, I'm so racist I hate the white parts of Obama. laugh


Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 12:20 PM

Haha, oh Dave. I figured you just got tired of me picking on your hypocritical trump rhetoric, but failing to point out Clinton's falling points. Poking at your tribalism and pretend moral high ground was entertaining though.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
CRUSHING THE MEDIA WAS AN ORDER!




That video clip, from whatever movie it is, has been used a zillion times. My favorite was when hitler's Honda VFR was stolen and he freaks because the the Wehrmacht got him a BMW GS to replace it. I about pissed myself.

Where are the folk calling this out as horrible and insensitive like they did in the AC thread a few years ago? Or is it okay to promote anti-semitism now so long as it's directed at trump?

More of that pretend moral high ground and hypocrisy at work for you Dave. sleep
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by hobie1616
CRUSHING THE MEDIA WAS AN ORDER!




That video clip, from whatever movie it is, has been used a zillion times. My favorite was when hitler's Honda VFR was stolen and he freaks because the the Wehrmacht got him a BMW GS to replace it. I about pissed myself.

Where are the folk calling this out as horrible and insensitive like they did in the AC thread a few years ago? Or is it okay to promote anti-semitism now so long as it's directed at trump?

More of that pretend moral high ground and hypocrisy at work for you Dave. sleep


[Linked Image]

Carry on boys...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 05:57 PM

isn't that video clip from that movie where the germans lived on the back side of the moon? And were going to invade the globe on those zeppelins?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 06:28 PM

Not even a week into Donald Trumpís presidency, some liberal internationalists find themselves privately pining for George W. Bush.

Is President Trump surrendering Americaís moral high ground?

Mike Pompeo was reportedly ďblindsidedĒ yesterday when he found out about the draft order to consider reopening black sites and resuming waterboarding.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 06:51 PM

Talk to one of the White Houses

Trump has shut down the 202-456-1111 White House Comments Line to further stifle dissent. But not to worry! Bernieís campaign digital team has created a work around.

WhiteHouseInc.org was originally created about a year ago by Bernie Sandersí campaign digital team, Revolution Messaging, to ďpush Trump to divest from his business while in office,Ē but has been reconfigured to provide a means to contact one of the White House Satellite locations.

On the site, callers fill out a form with their email and phone number and then receive a call that connects them to one of Trump's properties ó from all over the world and totally randomly. The website is aware that you will probably be connected to a hotel or golf course, but they suggest you "tell management that until Trump steps away from his businesses for real, their property is no different from the Oval Office and you want to talk about the issues that matter most."
Simply fill out the form on WhiteHouseInc.org and you will be connected to one of the satellite White Houses!

When you submit your phone number on the right, youíll receive a call and be randomly connected to one of Trumpís properties. Donít be fooled, theyíll ask you to make a reservation or a tee time, but remember, youíre talking to the White House, so use the opportunity to discuss important issues.


I love technology.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 07:00 PM

have you tried that? Let us know how it works...
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 07:23 PM

Voter Fraud ????

Quote
With Kushner, The Washington Post has now identified four Trump family members or top administration appointees who were registered in two states during the fall election. The others are chief White House strategist Stephen K. Bannon; Tiffany Trump, the president's youngest daughter; and Treasury Secretary nominee Steven Mnuchin, as first reported by CNN.


Hmm.... sorry... not illegal! not fraud either ....

BUT its a hell of a pretense to pass more rules which target "groups" of voters and just so happens favors your side in winning.

(note: a pretense... is NOT A FACT)

IMO, the only bullet proof way to this kind of certainty is a national ID ( I doubt that is popular tho)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 08:16 PM

Amazon loves Conway and Spicer Newspeak.

In that brilliant critique, Orwell casts the blame for political corruption widely, and he insists that we all bear a responsibility to resist it by thinking and especially by writing more clearly (stay away from the caps lock key Todd). ďOne ought to recognize,Ē he wrote, ďthat the present political chaos is connected with the decay of language, and that one can probably bring about some improvement by starting at the verbal end.Ē Thereís a patriotic challenge you wonít hear coming from Washington, no matter which party is in power.

Fortunately, weíre not living under the dystopian terror that Orwell described in ď1984.Ē Our new leader is not the manufactured icon of a supreme state. Heís a supernova of insecurities, tweeting out his insults and threats to increasingly perplexed citizens who still ó for the moment, at least ó enjoy the right to object in whatever language they choose.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 08:21 PM

Alternative Facts

From the Washington Post

Tally up the lies and distortions...

1) Trump repeated his false claim that there was rampant voter fraud in the election, and when pressed on the fact that his claim has repeatedly been debunked, Trump said: ďNo it hasnít. Take a look at the Pew reports.Ē

2) When ABC pressed Trump on the fact that the author of the Pew report undermined his claims, Trump claimed, somewhat unintelligibly, that this author was ďgroveling.Ē

3) Trump said this about all of the people who he falsely claims voted illegally in the election:

ďThose were Hillary votes. And if you look at it they all voted for Hillary. They all voted for Hillary. They didnít vote for me. I donít believe I got one. Okay, these are people that voted for Hillary Clinton. And if they didnít vote, it wouldíve been different in the popular.Ē

4) Trump said this about his glorious victory:

ďI had a tremendous victory, one of the great victories ever. In terms of counties I think the most ever or just about the most ever. When you look at a map itís all red. Red meaning us, Republicans.Ē

5) Trump said this about the size of the audience for his inaugural speech:

ďWhen I looked at the numbers that happened to come in from all of the various sources, we had the biggest audience in the history of inaugural speeches.Ē

6) Trump said this about immigration:

ďWe have to stop people from just pouring into our country.Ē

This is not exactly a lie, since ďpouring inĒ is not a precise statement, but it leaves an enormously misleading impression.

7) Pressed by ABC on the fact that Obamacare repeal could mean at least 18 million people lose insurance, Trump said:

ďNobody ever deducts all the people that have already lost their health insurance that liked it. You had millions of people that liked their health insurance and their health care and their doctor and where they went. You had millions of people that now arenít insured anymore.Ē

This is not quite a lie, but it is a flagrant distortion.

8) HOW TRUMP WILL MAKE MEXICO PAY FOR THE WALL:

Trump has now moved forward with the wall, but U.S. taxpayers will fund it at first. In an interview with ABC News, he explains how heíll make Mexico pay for it later:

ďWeíll be reimbursed at a later date from whatever transaction we make from Mexico Ö that wall will cost us nothing. Iím just telling you there will be a payment. It will be in a form, perhaps a complicated form.Ē

ďA complicated form.Ē Translation: Iíll come up with some kind of convoluted lie to explain this away later.

There's a lot more...
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/26/17 08:38 PM

From the NY Times

Don't argue with my alternative facts.

Trumpís Chief Strategist Says News Media Should ĎKeep Its Mouth Shutí

Of all of Mr. Trumpís advisers in the White House, Mr. Bannon is the one tasked with implementing the nationalist vision that Mr. Trump channeled during the later months of the campaign, one that stemmed from Mr. Bannon himself.
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 12:01 AM

Tiffany Trump and Jared Kushner are both registered to vote in 2 states.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 02:12 AM

Alternative Facts

The president of Mexico and myself have agreed to cancel our planned meeting scheduled for next week.

The Facts

Mexican President Enrique PeŮa Nieto on Thursday called off his trip to Washington scheduled for next week, after Trump moved forward with his plan for a long-promised border wall and needled his southern neighbor about forcing Mexico to pay for it.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 02:33 AM

Alternative Facts 1984 Today


Trump pressured Park Service to find proof for his claims about inauguration crowd


Newspeak is alive.

On the morning after Donald Trumpís inauguration, acting National Park Service director Michael T. Reynolds received an extraordinary summons: The new president wanted to talk to him. In a Saturday phone call, Trump personally ordered Reynolds to produce additional photographs of the previous dayís crowds on the Mall, according to three individuals who have knowledge of the conversation.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 02:43 AM

You know you're a screw-up when the alternate Faux News outlet jumps in your poop.

Wall Street Journal - Trumpís Little Mexican War
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 04:54 PM

Alternative Facts

ďYou know, the only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters, OK?Ē

Facts

A petition on the White House website asking President Donald Trump to release information about his tax returns has now received more signatures than any other petition in the systemís five-year history.

As of Thursday afternoon, the petition had over 368,000 signatures, surpassing the previous record of 367,180. The previous record-holder called for the United States government to ďlegally recognize the Westboro Baptist Church as a hate group.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
From the NY Times

Don't argue with my alternative facts.

Trumpís Chief Strategist Says News Media Should ĎKeep Its Mouth Shutí

Of all of Mr. Trumpís advisers in the White House, Mr. Bannon is the one tasked with implementing the nationalist vision that Mr. Trump channeled during the later months of the campaign, one that stemmed from Mr. Bannon himself.


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Alternative Facts

ďYou know, the only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters, OK?Ē

Facts

A petition on the White House website asking President Donald Trump to release information about his tax returns has now received more signatures than any other petition in the systemís five-year history.

As of Thursday afternoon, the petition had over 368,000 signatures, surpassing the previous record of 367,180. The previous record-holder called for the United States government to ďlegally recognize the Westboro Baptist Church as a hate group.Ē


You're going to be really disappointed when you find out he personally probably doesn't make much.

Any smart entrepreneur pays themselves as little as possible.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/27/17 05:31 PM

Alternative Facts

President Donald Trump believes millions of votes were cast illegally in last year's election, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said on Tuesday, but he wouldn't provide any concrete evidence for the claim, which has long been debunked.

Facts

Maybe Trump is right.

A woman who was arrested after voting twice for Donald Trump ó and in the process became a flash point in the voter fraud debate ó is incompetent to stand trial, her attorney said in a motion filed in Iowa court.

Terri Lynn Rote, 56, was accused in late October of casting two ballots in the general election: an early-voting ballot at the Polk County Election Office and another at a county satellite voting location, according to police records. Rote, a registered Republican, remains charged with first-degree election misconduct, and her felony case has been winding through Iowa courts.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/28/17 05:49 PM

<**** and lies. And itís not entirely clear how to respond.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/28/17 06:01 PM

When even Darth Vader thinks your policies are un-American, you really need to start rethinking.

Dick Cheney, a decisive conservative himself, said Monday on The Hugh Hewitt Show that the (Muslim) ban "goes against everything we stand for and believe in."

"I think this whole notion that somehow we can just say no more Muslims, just ban a whole religion, goes against everything we stand for and believe in. I mean, religious freedom has been a very important part of our history and where we came from,"
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/28/17 07:35 PM

Trump's Obama Derangement Syndrome

The Obama inauguration was a historic event; grand and uplifting, filled with pomp, talent, excitement, and joy. The Trump version was better attended than your usual white supremacist function, filled with pompousness, thin on talent, exciting if you are fond of harangues, and joyless as watching the Statue of Liberty being vandalized.

During the after-inaugural parade the stands were jammed to overflowing with people who wanted to see President Obama. The Trump stands were largely empty but for a few homeless people taking advantage of this pop-up bivouac spot. That will be the last help they get from him. Worse yet, Trump got out of his car to do a sleazy and self-serving infomercial as his hotel was passed by, and no one watched.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/29/17 04:37 PM

There's a big difference between lying and what Trump says. Read the book.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/29/17 04:40 PM

From the Washington Post

By Editorial Board January 28 at 4:33 PM
THE EXECUTIVE ORDER that President Trump signed on Friday calling a temporary halt to travel to the United States from seven predominantly Muslim nations ó and indefinitely blocking refugees from the worldís largest humanitarian crisis, in Syriaóis an affront to values upon which the nation was founded and that have made it a beacon of hope around the world. George Washington declared in 1783 that the ďbosom of America is openĒ not only to the ďopulent and respectable strangerĒ but also ďthe oppressed and persecuted.Ē Now Mr. Trump has slammed the door on the oppressed and persecuted in a fit of irrational xenophobia.

He ordered foreign nationals from Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen and Iraq be barred immediately from entry into the United States for 90 days while more rigorous visa screening is put into place. This touched off panic and chaos at airports on Saturday as people with already-issued visas were turned away from boarding flights and others detained on arrival. Among those caught in the mess and held at John F. Kennedy Airport in New York was an Iraqi who had worked for the United States in Iraq for a decade. Green card holders, already permanent residents in the United States who happened to be overseas, were told they could no longer re-enter. Untold thousands of people who have applied for visas ó including translators and interpreters who have worked with U.S. forces in Iraq ó were left wondering if they would ever make it to American shores.

Syriaís civil war has forced about 4.8 million people to flee to neighboring countries, and 1 million are seeking asylum in Europe. Mr. Trump callously and without evidence declared that Syrian refugees are ďdetrimental to the interests of the United States,Ē although in fact the relatively small number who have come to the United States have proven overwhelmingly positive. Mr. Trumpís four-month ban on refugees from these predominantly Muslim nations was accompanied by an instruction to prioritize refugee claims made by religious minorities facing persecution, chiefly Christians whose communities have suffered greatly over many decades. We think thereís a legitimate place in refugee policy for favoring persecuted minorities, but favoring one faith while blocking people from another is demeaning to all and runs counter to the basic tenet that the United States does not discriminate by religion.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/29/17 05:23 PM

Even Kim Kardashian is looking smarter than Trump. Go figure.

[Linked Image]

Any thoughts Schwantz?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 01:39 AM

Action <---> Reaction

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) received more than $10 million since Saturday and has hundreds of thousands of new members in the day since it took action against President Trump's executive orderÖ

ďIíve never seen anything like this,Ē Romero said. ďPeople are fired up and want to be engaged. What weíve seen is an unprecedented public reaction to the challenges of the Trump administration.Ē
...

ďI hope Trump enjoys losing,Ē ACLU national director Faiz Shakir toldYahoo News Saturday. ďHeís going to lose so much weíre going to get sick and tired of his losing.Ē
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 09:46 AM

That is not terrifying at all.

[Linked Image]

Attached picture IMG_20170130_104402.jpg
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 05:39 PM

Why is this temporary blocking of visas an issue now when it hasn't been in previous administrations?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 07:44 PM

the one blocking visas from the 7 nations, or another executive order?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
That is not terrifying at all.

[Linked Image]

With Bush it was President Cheney. Now it's President Bannon.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 08:00 PM

Building a Wall of Ignorance

So letís sum it up: The White House press secretary created a diplomatic crisis while trying to protect the president from ridicule over his foolish boasting. In the process he demonstrated that nobody in authority understands basic economics. Then he tried to walk the whole thing back.

All of this should be placed in the larger context of Americaís quickly collapsing credibility.

Our government hasnít always done the right thing. But it has kept its promises, to nations and individuals alike.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 10:33 PM

Alternate Facts

Trump says his order didn't cause weekend airport chaos.

Facts

Protesters block LAX traffic, face off with police as they rally against Trump's travel ban

Democrats will attempt to rescind Trumpís travel ban

How Trumpís Rush to Enact an Immigration Ban Unleashed Global Chaos

OBAMA EMERGES! ĎAMERICAN VALUES AT STAKEí

It Took Donald Trump 8 Days To Bring The U.S. To The Brink Of A Constitutional Crisis

ďObedience to specific court orders is what keeps us from being a banana republic or fascist dictatorship. Thatís a really big deal.Ē


Where are Schwantz and Todd to mansplain all of this to us?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/30/17 11:00 PM

Our good friend Todd called Michelle Obama a thug (we all know what that really means in Todd-speak) for daring to touch Queen Elizabeth.

[Linked Image]

Now Trump wants to visit the UK. Could a Trump visit to Britain embarrass the queen? More than a million Britons say yes

Thug indeed!
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 02:55 AM

Well that escalated quickly!

Trump appointee tells Trump NO!... Just won't do it!.. Trump Fires Her. Swears in appointee number two. Then fires the guy who he thinks screwed up his big victory of the muslim weekend... the customs and immigration guy..

This smells like the Nixon Sat Night Massacre It took Nixon to the third level to get some one to fire Archibald Cox, the Nixon special prosecutor who wanted Nixon's tapes.

So... yes... the president can fire his political appointees.. and the context matters.

But... wow... what an echo from history.

(In this issue, Trump could have just picked a Justice Dept Trump flunky /true believer/ to defend his actions in court as a special prosecutor and tell her to recuse her self... and wait till his guy gets approved... but... well you know... his small hands meant ... not taking that crap from some no name babe)

The screws of history... are evil. That Nixon lackey was none other then Robert Bork.... So... as Trump gets ready to name a new Justice (after the BS of the last year for Garland) ...It was going to take a herculean performance to pretend that the next justice action was not pure politics. It will be nuclear.

Now, Trump has fallen into the trap of having the justice department viewed as his political enforcer. Moreover, today Spicer told the State Dept people signing onto a statement opposing the new travel ban.... don't like it.... leave! (not even sharp enough to remind the staff to do their job and he was sure.... they would do their job... NOPE...its trumps way... or the highway)

The public LOVES a strong man... so Trump may fire up his base... He just said... YOUR FIRED.... In a world where you are the hammer.... EVERYTHING looks like a nail and its what he knows... So... couple that with those hippies with pink pussy hats in the streets... and History makes another echo. Nixon destroyed McGovern and those hippie loosers as the dems were in total disarray (just like now)
Now THAT is a possible future echo of the past....

Other echoes.... The echo of J Edgar Hoover is problematic... I could not have believed that the Justice Department's FBI guy, Comey, ignoring all precedent and advice from his boss and playing politics with the Clinton investigation using the FBI as a weapon...AND then punting on the russian intervention till the election was over... Trump says... good boy... you can stay for your ten year contract.

I am having an even worse horrible flashback then Hoover and watching the TV show... the propoganda called "Tales of the FBI" tho!.... I remember being driven to grade school and listening to the morning news coming from Viet Nam. The US killed 30 ... 50... 100s of viet cong and suffered just a few casualties day after day ... I thought of it like a ball game... Cool.... we are winning 100 to 5... Then I remember the anti war marches... and I followed my parents point of view that ONLY Nixon could protect us from those Hippie commies. Did you see what they did to the returning soldiers who were THIS CLOSE TO WINNING THE WAR... Didn't Nixon's secret plan to win the WAR almost work... (40 years later we find out ONLY after telling the South Vietnamese... NOT to cut a deal with Johnson and end the damn thing... so that he could beat Humprhey) Then I remember my Governor/Sitting Vice President.... resigning... Why ... I was told... Oh... the commies trumped up some charges.. (he strong armed kickbacks in my county) Those appeasers forced us to surrender in Viet Nam... WTF... the USA NEVER looses a war... The hippie left did this.... So.... i remember being very sad when they got Nixon. What?... they nailed him for dirty tricks campaign... REALLY....

Thank god... they taught history in college..and i learned to read the newspaper and the history of the constitution.

Trump is out there doing exactly what trump promised... Can't imagine it working... How much of my flashback reprises.... god, I hope none of it... but not looking good right now.
So, I guess I have the misfortune of living through the 70s again... this time a bit more aware! I was just a kid getting fed propoganda, the usual american fairy tale that white washed our past. ...Now as an adult... i get fed alternate facts... Its just different!

Till I read of the Canadian tragedy of a white supremacist opening fire on the poor people in the mosque killing 5... Anti muslim action..... who would have predicted?

rant over! (i feel better now)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 03:33 AM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: northsea junkie

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 06:12 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc

skip to 35sec.




Posted By: H17cat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 06:50 AM

Good winds in West Maui today, did you make it out on the water?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 03:59 PM

Alternative Facts

"The acting Attorney General, Sally Yates, has betrayed the Department of Justice by refusing to enforce a legal order designed to protect the citizens of the United States," White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in a statement.

Facts

The firing of Yates represents a spectacular example of Trump lashing out at a person who has dared to assert a moral vision that conflicts with his squalid and fearful worldview.

ďPresident Trump has now put his Cabinet on notice: if you adhere to your oath of office to defend the Constitution, you risk your job," said Sen. Patrick Leahy, a senior member of the Judiciary Committee.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 04:14 PM

Five year-old terrorist.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Our good friend Todd called Michelle Obama a thug (we all know what that really means in Todd-speak) for daring to touch Queen Elizabeth.

[Linked Image]

Now Trump wants to visit the UK. Could a Trump visit to Britain embarrass the queen? More than a million Britons say yes

Thug indeed!


The petition, that has now garnered over 1,600,000 signatures, at one point was being signed by more than a thousand people per minute.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 04:44 PM

Alternative Facts

President Donald Trump told a pool of reporters that he thought the execution on the ground, at the airports, ďwas working out very nicely.Ē

Facts

ďTrump did accomplish something truly remarkable. He managed to spark another round of massive nationwide protest for the second time in just the first week of his presidency. And people are willing to go to [bleeped] places to protest. Last week, it was parks. This week, it was airports. Next week, people are going to march for gay rights at the DMV,Ē Meyers joked, although, the way this administration is going, he could be right about that prediction.

Meyers noted that federal judges have issued a stay on Trumpís executive order, proving the president might not have had a full chance to think about this.

ďTrump should be the first president that legally has to count to 100 before taking action,Ē Meyers said. ďNot because he will think better of it, but because he will forget what it is.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 05:16 PM

The week in review

The new administration began with a poorly attended inauguration that led a wounded Trump to lash out at the media in a bizarre speech at the CIAís headquarters.

Sean Spicer summoned reporters to the White House briefing room and, defying clear evidence to the contrary, brazenly and falsely claimed that Trump drew ďthe largest audience ever to witness an inauguration ó period.Ē

Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway went on national television and rebranded Spicerís bald-faced lies as ďalternative facts.Ē

White House chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon launched a calculated strategy of open war on the press, saying the ďelite mediaĒ should ďkeep its mouth shut.Ē

All of this established the tone for Trumpís full-blown, Orwellian assault on reality. After scrubbing mentions of global warming from the White House website, Trump imposed gag orders on the Environmental Protection Agency and other federal agencies.

Trump doubled down on his widely debunked claim that he lost the popular vote only because of massive voter fraud and promised to launch a ďmajor investigationĒ

Trump reiterated his belief, contradicted by intelligence experts, that torture ďabsolutelyĒ works.

A string of controversial Cabinet confirmations and an ever-growing list of executive actions ó on issues including the Affordable Care Act, the ďglobal gag ruleĒ on abortion, the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipeline projects, the Mexican border wall, and the grotesque Muslim ban.

Trumpís cascading attacks on the body politic, including instigating a potential constitutional crisis by firing the acting attorney general for ordering Justice Department lawyers not to defend his un-American travel ban, cannot erase the fundamental truth that he does not represent a majority of the American people.

The incredible turnout for the Womenís March, which turned out to be the largest single day of mass political action in U.S. history.


This, has been a hell of a week. Any thoughts on what this week will bring? Schwantz? Todd? Carl?

Demonstrations on Tax Day to protest Trumpís refusal to release his tax returns?

Scientistsí March on Washington?

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 05:25 PM

Alternative Facts

ďOnly 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning.Ē
ó President Trump, tweet, Jan, 30, 2017

Facts
The Trump White Houseís figures on the scope of the travel ban are ludicrously low. The universe of people likely affected by the travel suspension is around 90,000 ó not 109. The White House should also not use the overall daily number of travelers as a comparison.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 05:29 PM

Alternative Facts

ďBut we cut approximately $600 million off the F-35 fighter, and that only amounts to 90 planes out of close to 3,000 planes. And when you think about $600 million, it was announced by Marillyn, whoís very talented, the head of Lockheed Martin. I got involved in that about a month ago. A lot was put out, and when they say a lot, a lot meant about 90 planes. They were having a lot of difficulty. There was no movement and I was able to get $600 million approximately off those planes.Ē
ó President Trump, remarks to the press, Jan. 30, 2017

Facts

Trump, yet again, claims credit for decisions that were already made before he became president. Trump stated he ďwas able to get $600 million approximately off those planes,Ē thereby ending the ďdifficultyĒ and ďno movementĒ in the program.

Yet the Pentagon had already announced cost reductions of roughly $600 million before Trump began meeting with Lockheed Martinís chief executive. Once again, we award Trump Pinocchios for taking undue credit.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 08:36 PM

Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it.

"Itís so tough for congressional Republicans. They sold what little remained of their souls to get a Republican president, but it turns out Donald Trump doesnít think he owes them anything:

Rather than the hoped-for collaborative new relationship between the White House and Congress, GOP officials complain that Trump is brushing aside their advice, failing to fully engage on drafting tough legislative packages like tax reform and Obamacare, and bypassing Congress by relying on executive actions, something they frequently complained about under President Obama.

At the same time, Trumpís unilateral moves continue to blindside Republicans and direct the national focus toward topics many in the party would rather avoid, whether thatís how to pay for building the border wall with Mexico, warming ties with Russia, investigating false claims about voter fraud or, most recently, implementing sweeping new policies on refugees and visas.
Go figure. During the campaign, Trump learned that he didnít need the Republican establishment behind them and that, once he was nominee, they wouldnít try to lay a finger on him no matter what he did. Now, heís acting on the power they gave him, and while a handful of Republicans have started making uncomfortable noises about his Muslim ban, thereís no sign theyíre going to start standing in his way on anything he really wants. Until theyíre ready to do thatóand they wonít be, as long as they think Trump is their ticket to kicking tens of millions of people off health insurance, gutting environmental and workplace protections, and taking control of womenís bodiesówhy would Trump give congressional Republicans a momentís thought?"
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 01/31/17 08:49 PM

It is disappointing that one person has made 142 post on this thread and there are only 23 total post about the passing of Rick White
Maybe it is time to end this thread
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/01/17 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hullflyer1
It is disappointing that one person has made 142 post on this thread and there are only 23 total post about the passing of Rick White
Maybe it is time to end this thread

You're asking three questions.

Why is there only one person that's posted 142 times? With what's now turned into a real Constitutional crisis vs. Sparky's imagined Constitutional questions in the past, why hasn't everyone using this forum posted 142 times?

Why are there only 23 posts about the passing of Rick White? Anyone who was helped by or knew Rick should have posted something.

Maybe it's time to end this thread? Lack of interest will do that.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 04:40 AM

ah hell no..... its getting real now... We get to fight the aussies now...

much better to have a pissing contest in english...bashing the aussies.
Posted By: JeffS

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 06:01 AM

No fight from us, we'll just sit it out, pretty surreal couple of months really now we're looking for new trade and military partners
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
No fight from us, we'll just sit it out, pretty surreal couple of months really now we're looking for new trade and military partners


Answer the phone, it's the Chinese. Another positive for you guys is you won't get pulled into pointless, bloody and expensive wars. You know president Bannon and his dumb dumb puppet are itching to get into shooting war with the Chinese and that is one you definitely want to sit out.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by JeffS
... we'll just sit it out,

Lucky you.

Report: Trump lashes out at Australian PM on phone call

U.S.-Australia Rift Is Possible After Trump Ends Call With Prime Minister

Maybe the popular vote loser will swap with Arnold.

Arnold Schwarzenegger just fired back at Donald Trump, telling the president if he's so obsessed with ratings, why not just do a switcheroo and go back to what appears to be his true passion?

Arnold just blasted Trump for blasting him at the National Prayer Breakfast Thursday. Trump asked everyone to take a moment and pray for the movie star because his ratings, according to Trump, are a "disaster."

Arnold's people just added, "Arnold is praying that President Trump can start improving his own approval ratings, which were the worst in history for an incoming President, by taking his job seriously and working inclusively."
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 05:14 PM

ďYou have a bunch of bad hombres down there,Ē Trump told the Mexican prez. ďYou arenít doing enough to stop them. I think your military is scared. Our military isnít, so I just might send them down to take care of it.Ē

Capture Cabo and Cancun first. They'll both make great R&R centers for our troops.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 05:22 PM

This thread has gotten much too serious. How about some humor?

ND lawmakers defend Sunday 'Blue Law' so 'wives can make breakfast in bed,' not spend their money

Want to stop into Target to pick up household supplies on a Sunday afternoon? You canít. Using whatís known as a Sunday ďBlue Law,Ē it is illegal in North Dakota for businesses to operate on Sunday:

Except as otherwise provided in sections 12.1-30-02 and 12.1-30-03, it is a class B misdemeanor for any person between the hours of twelve midnight and twelve noon on Sunday to do any of the following activities:

a. Engage in or conduct business or labor for profit in the usual manner and location.

b. Operate a place of business open to the public.


There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, the entire state is shut down. Needless to say, a lot of residents would like to see this archaic law gone from the books and be free to operate their businesses and run their errands as they see fit. So, North Dakota lawmakers have been debating the repeal of their blue law and some of the defenses are nothing short of jaw-dropping. From another century, even another planet:

One lawmaker in favor of keeping the law in place feels Sunday mornings should be used for your wife to make you breakfast in bed.

"Spending time with your wife, your husband. Making him breakfast, bringing it to him in bed and then after that go take your kids for a walk,Ē says Representative Bernie Satrom.

Another feels his wife spends all his hard earned money the rest of the week and his wallet needs a day off. "I don't know about you but my wife has no problem spending everything I earn in 6 and a half days. And I don't think it hurts at all to have a half day off," says Representative Vernon Laning.


You see, his wife already has too much time to spend his money. His wallet needs a day off!

When the comments were made public, Rep. Laning basically told Valley News Live that all you little ladies need to get a sense of humor. Yuck, yuck. Thanks for mansplaining the hilarious joke to us, Rep. Laning!


His wallet needs a half day off. Nuck, nuck, nuck. Isn't that funny?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 05:53 PM

Some thoughts from Australia about the popular vote loser to PM phone call.

Turnbull changes Facebook relationship status, posts emo memes following Trump phonecall
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 09:08 PM

Need more humor?

Popular Vote Loser's Longtime Doctor Says President Takes Hair-Growth Drug
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/02/17 10:26 PM

Know the players

Your future, and the future of the world, now rests in the hands of a tiny team of zealots and opportunistic hacks in the White House who prefer to rule the country by edict and ďalternative factsĒ while ignoring the courts, leaving Congress out of the loop, purging seasoned officials from the government and targeting the independent media.

It is worth noting that the coup is being managed by a collection of characters who seem unable to pull it off without raising deep opposition. Journalist Jonathan Alter called Trump and company ďa breathtakingly incompetent administration.Ē And he is far from alone in that assessment, especially after the cruelly chaotic imposition of a temporary ban (yes, ban ó thatís what the president called it) of refugees and travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries.

Heading up the propaganda team is motor mouth Kellyanne Conway. Less than a year ago, she was on the Ted Cruz campaign team. Back then, she called Trump a whiner and attacked him for his Trump University scam. Now, having coined the euphemism ďalternative facts,Ē she has given her soul to the con man and enthusiastically warps common rules of language to justify any untruth that comes out of her new leaderís lips.

The teamís mouthpiece is Sean Spicer, the communications director whose angry outbursts at the White House press corps look like the reaction of someone who knows he is being forced to defend preposterous fibs and hates being caught in the act. This is the knucklehead who said out loud in front of all the world that it would have been ďmisguided and wrongĒ if airport security officials had not handcuffed a 5-year-old boy who got caught up in the snare of the Muslim ban.

The chief of staff is Reince Priebus, a political apparatchik who, as chair of the Republican National Committee, was one of the few members of the GOP establishment to hitch his wagon to Trumpís rising star. His loyalty paid off ďbigly,Ē as Trump would say.

Retired Gen. Michael Flynn, a big fan of conspiracy theories, is Trumpís national security advisor. Flynn is currently under investigation by U.S. counterintelligence agents for his communications with Russian officials during the presidential campaign. Congressional Democrats are asking if the fee Flynn received for a speech in Moscow in 2015 broke the law against receiving payments from foreign governments.

One of the architects of the Muslim ban that the administration now claims is not a Muslim ban is Stephen Miller. As a college student a decade ago, Miller organized events to raise awareness of the terrorist threat and ďIslamo-fascism.Ē Before coming to the White House, he worked for Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions, Trumpís nominee for attorney general, pushing a hard line on immigration and Muslims. For Miller, the current ban is just a tiny first step.

And then there is Stephen K. Bannon, a self-described ďLeninistĒ and former boss at Breitbart News, where he provided a platform for an array of ideas from the so-called alt-right, including white nationalists and extreme anti-immigration activists. If the Trump administration continues to foment turmoil in government and economic and trade policy, it may actually be intentional. That is Bannonís vision for America, and he has inserted it into the cavernous spaces inside Trumpís untutored mind.

"Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that's my goal too,Ē Bannon said in a much-quoted 2013 interview. ďI want to bring everything crashing down and destroy all of today's establishment.Ē

Yes, this guy is the senior advisor to the president of the United States and has been given a seat on the National Security Council.


I'n sure Schwantz will offer a counter-point.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 04:02 AM

Need more humor?

Popular Vote Loser's Longtime Doctor Says President Takes Hair-Growth Drug

UPDATE:

This explains a lot.

Trump Takes Propecia, A Hair-Loss Drug Associated With Mental Confusion, Impotence

With the revelation that Trump is taking finasteride, many rushed to warn of possible side effects &#8213; including mental confusion and permanent sexual dysfunction.

Punchlines aside, the safety of the drug has been challenged.

ďThe FDA-approved pill has been called into question, with emerging research and a slew of lawsuits suggesting that finasteride may be more dangerous than previously believed,Ē reported Menís Journal. ďUsers report that its side effects ó inability to orgasm, painful erections, chronic depression, insomnia, brain fog, and suicidal thoughts ó can last long after patients stop taking the pill.Ē

Since 2011, at least 1,245 lawsuits have been filed against Propeciaís manufacturer, Merck, alleging that the company didnít sufficiently warn users of sexual and cognitive side effects. Patients and physicians reportedly call the effects ďPost-Finasteride SyndromeĒ because, they say, symptoms often persist after discontinuing the drug.


Is Propecia what caused Tom Hanks' brain cloud in Joe vs. The Volcano?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 03:27 PM

The queen of alternative facts is still at it.

Alternative Fact

During a Thursday interview with MSNBCís Chris Matthews, the counselor to the president defended President Trumpís travel ban related to seven majority-Muslim countries. At one point, Conway made a reference to two Iraqi refugees whom she described as the masterminds behind ďthe Bowling Green massacre.Ē

ďMost people donít know that because it didnít get covered,Ē Conway said.

Fact

The Bowling Green massacre didnít get covered because it didnít happen. There has never been a terrorist attack in Bowling Green, Ky., carried out by Iraqi refugees or anyone else. It appeared initially that Conway was referring to two Iraqi citizens living in Bowling Green who were arrested in 2011 and eventually sentenced to federal prison for attempting to send weapons and money to al-Qaeda in Iraq for the purpose of killing U.S. soldiers, according to a statement from the Justice Department.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 03:58 PM

Popular vote losing Trump is a business guy so he'll be good for business.

Oops.

Stability Is Good for Business. Trumpís Whims Threaten It

One weekend came close to undoing the firm legal foundation on which U.S. business has thrived.

Whatís happened so far? Immigration bans, border walls, abandoned trade agreements, an official reliance on ďalternative facts,Ē unprompted promises to bring back torture. And what hasnít happened so far? Tax policy is a complete mystery, with an unclear and walked-back proposal to impose a border tax. Health-care policy is even more mysterious. Trump has promised to do a ďbig number on Dodd-FrankĒ and has issued an executive order requiring agencies to retire two regulations for each new regulation they implement, but that order doesnít seem to apply to Trumpís own remarkable flurry of rules that complicate the regulation of immigration and business relocation.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 04:21 PM

Many in the Washington power elite are united in their dismay about Trumpís White House

The opposition to Trump is spilling across partisan and ideological boundaries as the realization grows that the awesome power of the U.S. government, its mass surveillance and law enforcement agencies and its nuclear arsenal, is now controlled by a band of amateur renegades who are out to dismantle the American state.

The dismay in Washington carries a hint of alarm. The traditional mandarins are not just offended by Trumpís cavalier treatment of the CIA and Pentagon in his first week in office or the callous, pointless and chaotically implemented immigration order. They are disturbed by his systematic contempt for the standard procedures of governance followed by every Democratic and Republican administration since the passage of the National Security Act of 1947.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 04:47 PM

President Trump is finally following through on his promise to Make America Safe Again. He has begun our long-overdue attack on Australia.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 05:07 PM

Well the Obama record is complete
we are at the mythical full employment level with no inflation (2% target). Benchmarks of the post war era!....We are growing by 200K jobs a month or about 2%. (Report today said... wow... those minimum wage laws have had an effect and real incomes have ticked up.... who would have thought) .... So.. We fixed the Bush/republican era fubar.

Here's the problem... growth requires either more people (demand)... so you can breed like rabbits... or have immigration add population. OOOPs .. we are not doing the nasty productively enough... AND for some " reasons??" we plan to cut immigration. 2% growth could be all that is available.

Or you can grow by improving productivity (inovation) .... Problem is... productivity means more output per worker... If the demand is constant.... then that is fewer workers... Fear the future... the robots are coming...

Or you can grow by making the universe bigger... ie globalization and trade .... Oops... we need to kill off those trade agreements..
I am just making sure we acknowledge where we are last quarter of 2016.

So... high water mark... or base to build from using the republican/trump template.... What is the winning move?

Trump just now promised to turn it around.... umm... well that would be par for republican economic performance of the past... sadly... turn it around... would point the economy down hill.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 05:53 PM

Where's The Beef Going?

From cable TV to cattlemenís websites, flood of Trump news swamps the media

ďSparking a trade war with Canada, Mexico, and Asia will only lead to higher prices for American-produced beef in those markets and put our American producers at a much steeper competitive disadvantage,Ē Brunner said in a news release. ďThe fact remains that 96 percent of the worldís consumers live outside the United States, and expanding access to those consumers is the single best thing we can do to help American cattle-producing families be more successful.Ē
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/03/17 09:23 PM

Ornstein and Mann recommend the US take on the Aussie system
Quote
To counter this set of problems, we propose adoption of the Australian system of mandatory attendance at the polls, where voters who do not show up (they do not have to vote for specific candidates, but can cast unmarked ballots) and do not have a written excuse are subject to modest fines, the equivalent of a parking ticket. This system moved Australian turnout from around 55 percent, similar to the United States, to over 90 percent.10 Most important, it changed Australian campaign discourse. Politicians of all stripes have told us that when they know that their own base will turn out en masse, and will be balanced by the other partyís base, they shift their efforts to persuading voters in the middle. That means talking less about wedge issues, like abortion or guns, and more about larger issues like education and jobs; and it means using less of the fiery or divisive rhetoric that excites base voters but turns off those in the middle.


How valid is this point?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/04/17 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Ornstein and Mann recommend the US take on the Aussie system
Quote
To counter this set of problems, we propose adoption of the Australian system of mandatory attendance at the polls, where voters who do not show up (they do not have to vote for specific candidates, but can cast unmarked ballots) and do not have a written excuse are subject to modest fines, the equivalent of a parking ticket. This system moved Australian turnout from around 55 percent, similar to the United States, to over 90 percent.10 Most important, it changed Australian campaign discourse. Politicians of all stripes have told us that when they know that their own base will turn out en masse, and will be balanced by the other partyís base, they shift their efforts to persuading voters in the middle. That means talking less about wedge issues, like abortion or guns, and more about larger issues like education and jobs; and it means using less of the fiery or divisive rhetoric that excites base voters but turns off those in the middle.


How valid is this point?


[Linked Image]
Posted By: garda

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/04/17 10:46 AM

Seen from down here, it seems to work very well. But surely there'd zero chance of getting anything compulsory going in the USA?

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/04/17 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
What is the winning move?



Dodge the system as long as you can, then get the phuck outta here.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/05/17 02:38 AM

TRUMP UNHINGED: PREZ ATTACKS JUDGE

Trump Inches The U.S. Closer To Constitutional Crisis

Federal Agencies Stop Enforcing Key Parts Of Trumpís Travel Ban After Court Order

Inside the White House-Cabinet battle over Trumpís immigration order

This is all great stuff. We're barely into February and the popular vote loser has already run off of the tracks.

Where's Schwantz and Todd to mansplain all of this to us?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/05/17 02:43 AM

OíReilly loses his script.

OíReilly told Trump that Putin is a killer. Trumpís reply: ĎYou think our country is so innocent?í
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/05/17 02:54 AM

How protesters plan to get under Trumpís skin wherever he goes

About 200 of the 1,200 marchers made it across the bridge to the back gates of Mar-a-Lago. Across the street, a few dozen pro-Trump people waved American flags, but the spectacle was the protesters, beating drums, singing and chanting. This is the reality of Trumpís honeymoon-free presidency.

Trump ó the most unpopular new president in modern times ó canceled a trip to the Harley-Davidson factory in Milwaukee, where local groups had planned to protest his appearance; the White House said the protests were not the reason for the cancellation.

... a plan for a mass mooning of his hotel in Chicago.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/05/17 04:20 PM

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/05/17 04:58 PM

A thank you letter to Schwantz, Todd, Sparky, Clumlee, Ninny and K-Lube. Please excuse me if I left your name off of the list.


This note is a heartfelt ďthank youĒ from the Left. You showed us that people who really hate a President and his administration can make a national difference in how well that President and administration can do their jobs through simple grassroots organizing (at least, that's what you claim you had - the Koch brothers' funding of your movement notwithstanding). You demonstrated all kinds of techniques for how to harass your congress people and senators into changing their votes and stopping President Obama's attempts to make everyone's lives better. Over the six to eight years you've been operating, you've demonstrated these techniques over and over, showing us what they look like when they're organized, finely honed, and repeated.

You may think that I'm being sarcastic, but I'm actually being serious when I say "thank you." You were a very small group of people and you made huge waves in our political system. You developed a wonderful model for targeted, organized, effective grassroots activism.

Why am I thanking you? Well, after the election on November 8th, 2016, a lot of people noticed just how well your tactics and strategies had worked to stop the Obama administration from getting things done. And since you already field-tested them for us, we just have to copy your successful strategies without worrying that we're going to screw it up.

For me, the best part is that now you'll get to watch as a far greater number of people than you were ever able to recruit to your sorry-butt causes use those same strategies and tactics to shut down the morons you've put into office and send them packing. Why, just today, a group of Californians sent their Republican Congressman running and hiding when they showed up at his town hall meeting with questions he couldnít answer. And he wasnít even the first one to run and hide from his constituents since the election!

Once again, I really have to thank you for all your efforts on behalf of this great nation, especially the field-testing of all those tactics. Youíre true patriots, showing us how to make America great again (although our signs will be correctly spelled ó thanks for showing us how NOT to write a protest sign!).

Heckuva job, Tea-bees!

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/05/17 07:00 PM

"Hang on. I'm gonna try something I saw in a Road Runner cartoon."

Revisiting a red-blue divide: States with the worst highway death rates favored Trump

Novemberís presidential contest was bizarre in many ways, but there is one peculiarity that pundits havenít pounced on: The states with the worst rates of traffic deaths in the country went solidly for Donald Trump, while Hillary Clinton swept states with the lowest fatality rates.

That odd association between traffic deaths and how states voted echoes what happened just over four years ago, when this red-blue divide first came to light. As FairWarning reported in 2012, low fatality states voted blue to re-elect President Barack Obama, while states with higher death rates went red for GOP challenger Mitt Romney.


This might explain why Sparky, Ninny and Chumlee have been so quiet.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/06/17 04:08 AM

You got conned...


You voted for Trump because Clinton was going to be in Wall Street's pocket. Trump wants to repeal Dodd-Frank and eliminate the Fiduciary Rule, letting Wall Street return to its pre-2008 ways.

You voted for Trump because of Clinton's emails. The Trump administration is running its own private email server.

You voted for Trump because you thought the Clinton Foundation was "pay for play." Trump has refused to wall off his businesses from his administration, and personally profits from payments from foreign governments.

You voted for Trump because of Clinton's role in Benghazi. Trump ordered the Yemen raid without adequate intel, and tweeted about "FAKE NEWS" while Americans died as a result of his carelessness.

You voted for Trump because Clinton didn't care about "the little guy." Trump's cabinet is full of billionaires, and he took away your health insurance so he could give them a multi-million-dollar tax break.

You voted for Trump because he was going to build a wall and Mexico was going to pay for it. American consumers will pay for the wall via import tariffs.

You voted for Trump because Clinton was going to get us into a war. Trump has provoked our enemies, alienated our allies, and given ISIS a decade's worth of recruiting material.

You voted for Trump because Clinton didn't have the stamina to do the job. Trump hung up on the Australian Prime Minister during a 5pm phone call because "it was at the end of a long day and he was tired and fatigue was setting in."

You voted for Trump because foreign leaders wouldn't "respect" Clinton. Foreign leaders, both friendly and hostile, are openly mocking Trump.

You voted for Trump because Clinton lies and "he tells it like it is." Trump and his administration lie with a regularity and brazenness that can only be described as shocking.

Let's be honest about what really happened.

The reality is that you voted for Trump because you got conned. Trump is a grifter and the American people were the mark. Now that you know the score, quit insisting the con-man is on your side.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/07/17 03:02 PM

Alternative Facts

Popular vote loser states media chooses not to report on terrorist attacks

Facts

"It has been a busy day for presidential statements divorced from reality."
---CBS News anchor Scott Pelley

Can you help us here Schwantz? You're divorced from reality and should have some insight.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/07/17 03:20 PM

ďIt could be more media bias. I say they need to present both sides of the story: The things that did happen and the things that didnít happen. Then let the victims of the Bowling Green massacre decide if they were killed.Ē
---Stephen Colbert

ďThe important thing is that three million people died in the Bowling Green massacre, and they are all still registered to vote.Ē
---Seth Meyers

Posted By: David Ingram

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/07/17 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
What is the winning move?



Dodge the system as long as you can, then get the phuck outta here.


And go where Karl? The rest of the world is either too brown, too liberal or both for you! Try to enjoy the next two years... tick tock!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/07/17 11:21 PM

Woman still supports popular vote loser even after her family is tossed out of the country.

"I am a supporter of the constitution of the United States, and the freedom that we have here," she says. "I don't know what [Trump's] going to do next or if I support what he's gonna do. I can't tell at this point."

The Stoopid Is Strong In This One

The stoopid is also strong in this one.

... my uncle, who is an evangelical conservative who always votes Republican. He just told me that he's not worried that the GOP will take away his Social Security because if they try to, and I quote, "The Democrats will scream."

This is the quintessential conservative red state voter: vote against your own interests and hope like hell that the Democrats will bail you out.


Is his name Todd?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/08/17 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram


And go where Karl? The rest of the world is either too brown, too liberal or both for you! Try to enjoy the next two years... tick tock!



Iceland or Hungary. Iceland is probably warmer than where Karl is right now anyway
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/08/17 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
And go where Karl? The rest of the world is either too brown, too liberal or both for you! Try to enjoy the next two years... tick tock!


Too brown? You're a special kind of stupid sometimes. A good chunk of the world isn't nearly as far left as the U.S. has fallen, so that isn't a problem either.

Given the opportunity, I would likely move somewhere with as little government intrusion as possible. Preferably warm(ish). Costa Rica maybe? There's a lot of eastern bloc countries where the government is barely there and the dollar goes a long ways, and they aren't stupid cold. At one point Estonia had a 10:1 exchange rate I doubt know where it's at now. Not an option now though, I'm stuck here.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/08/17 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by David Ingram
And go where Karl? The rest of the world is either too brown, too liberal or both for you! Try to enjoy the next two years... tick tock!


Too brown? You're a special kind of stupid sometimes. A good chunk of the world isn't nearly as far left as the U.S. has fallen, so that isn't a problem either.

Given the opportunity, I would likely move somewhere with as little government intrusion as possible. Preferably warm(ish). Costa Rica maybe? There's a lot of eastern bloc countries where the government is barely there and the dollar goes a long ways, and they aren't stupid cold. At one point Estonia had a 10:1 exchange rate I doubt know where it's at now. Not an option now though, I'm stuck here.

Estonia is the place for you Carl. That's where Linkovich Chomovsky is from.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/08/17 10:33 PM

Alternative Facts Universe

Comedians everywhere are returning to school to take creative writing courses as they all realize they can never come up with material this good for their acts.

I understand now. The Trump administration is right about everything.

It is not their fault that their facts appear to be quite different from what is happening in the universe where most people live. They did not ask to come here. Something went wrong with the timeline, is all. Somebody stepped on a butterfly, and here we are.

When we look at their recently provided list of times when the media failed to cover Horrible Acts Of Terrorism, what we see is a long series of misspellings in which, often, zero people died.

The Bowling Green Massacre, something Kellyanne Conway mentioned in multiple interviews, is a real thing that happened. The carnage was unbelievable ó not in the sense that it is here, where we donít believe that there was any carnage. In the other sense.

The ďinner citiesĒ are unbelievable. In that universe, any time people in the nightmarish hellscape of the inner city leave their homes, they are instantly shot. Every time. You cannot go to the store without being shot. People sit huddled in their homes waiting to draw straws as to who will leave the house first, as whoever does so is inevitably killed. Itís awful. If we could only see what is happening in that universe, we would agree with sending in the feds.

In that universe, you need guns in your schools to protect from bear attacks, which are CONSTANT.

Maybe Schwantz and Todd are taking classes too.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/08/17 11:02 PM

Here's a story Todd will really enjoy.


Ted Cruz: ĎThe Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klaní


In 2013, Virginia state Sen. Stephen Martin said that the Democratic Party created the hate group. Martin later released a statement saying he ďregretted the carelessness and inaccuracy of his comments,Ē according to PolitiFact.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/08/17 11:33 PM

Maybe he doesn't want the job...

Supreme Court Nominee Calls Trumpís Attacks on Judiciary ĎDemoralizingí

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/09/17 04:19 PM

Georgia white supremacist under FBI investigation after police find evidence of ricin in his car

William Christopher Gibbs, a 27-year-old man from Fannin County, Georgia is under FBI investigation after driving himself to the hospital last week, claiming he came into contact with the deadly substance ricin.

Gibbsí Facebook profile indicates the 27-year-old white man is a member of the Georgia Church Of Creativity C.A and is a self-identified ďWhite Racial Loyalist.Ē A profile photo on his account writes as the caption, ď100 years from now when someone finds one of these trees thay [sic] will know that there was once a White Race.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/10/17 02:11 AM

Mitch McConnell gets some kinda award.

[Linked Image]

Nice flag Mitch.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/10/17 02:25 AM

The popular vote loser has been taking typing lessons from Todd.

In response to the Ninth Circuit decision regarding restricting refugees and travel by immigrants from a number of Muslim-majority countries...

SEE YOU IN COURT, THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION IS AT STAKE!

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/10/17 04:25 PM

Travel ban ruling: In court as on Twitter, Trump confronts evidence gap

The list of evidence-free claims from President Trump and his administration is long and growing. ďMillionsĒ of people voted illegally. Inauguration turnout was the ďbiggest ever.Ē All negative polls are ďfake news.Ē

Trumpís defiance might work well as political theater, and thereís no denying that it made for an effective presidential campaign. But as a legal strategy, itís already hitting roadblocks. The first came last week, when a federal judge froze his controversial executive order shutting U.S. borders to refugees and migrants from seven mostly Muslim countries. But the real blow came Thursday, when an appeals court upheld that freeze. In a unanimous opinion, a three-judge panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit found that the government had failed to show why the travel ban needed to be immediately reinstated. To arrive at that decision, the appeals court did something close to what fact-checkers, journalists, scholars and others do every day when Trump and his surrogates make extraordinary claims: It demanded extraordinary evidence ó or at least some evidence ó for the administrationís arguments.

And it got none, the judges said.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/10/17 04:36 PM

A week's supply of baloney

"We're writing about a president who makes quite a number of misstatements," said Glenn Kessler, the Washington Post reporter whose regular fact checks award "Pinocchios" based on the magnitude and brazenness of false claims. "This has increased our workload and increased the level of interest in fact-checking."

The number of unique visitors to Kessler's web page in January was 50 percent higher than in October, its previous busiest month, and 15 times greater than in January 2013, he said.

The Associated Press routinely publishes AP Fact Checks on political discourse. Last week, the AP premiered an aggregation of disputed political statements under the headline, "A week's supply of baloney." A separate fact check on Conway's false claim of a Bowling Green "massacre" on Thursday was the most-read story on the APNews.com website Friday. Similarly, on Monday, readers spent more time with a story examining President Donald Trump's claim about the media underplaying incidents of terrorism than they did with any other news item that day.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/10/17 08:18 PM

Todd hates this guy. That means he knows what he's talking about. Listen to him. Or else...

When the Fire Comes

What will you do when terrorists attack, or U.S. friction with some foreign power turns into a military confrontation? I donít mean in your personal life, where you should keep calm and carry on. I mean politically. Think about it carefully: The fate of the republic may depend on your answer.

Of course, nobody knows whether there will be a shocking, 9/11-type event, or what form it might take. But surely thereís a pretty good chance that sometime over the next few years something nasty will happen ó a terrorist attack on a public place, an exchange of fire in the South China Sea, something. Then what?
__________
Unfortunately, the suspension of critical thinking ended as such suspensions usually do ó badly. The Bush administration exploited the post-9/11 rush of patriotism to take America into an unrelated war, then used the initial illusion of success in that war to ram through huge tax cuts for the wealthy.
__________
Every day brings further evidence that this is a man who completely conflates the national interest with his personal self-interest, and who has surrounded himself with people who see it the same way. And each day also brings further evidence of his lack of respect for democratic values.
__________
In the end, I fear, itís going to rest on the people ó on whether enough Americans are willing to take a public stand. We canít handle another post-9/11-style suspension of doubt about the man in charge; if that happens, America as we know it will soon be gone.



Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 01:47 AM

Trump vs. Scots



Trump gets ballooned.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 01:58 AM

Mitch gets some ink.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 02:32 AM

Where have Schwantz and Todd disappeared too? Are they investigating massive voter fraud?

Trump Again Falsely Insists He Would Have Won New Hampshire If Not For Voter Fraud

According to a source briefed on the discussion, Trump told Ayotte that she would have won re-election had she not been critical of him during the course of the campaign. He then alluded to thousands of people who supposedly went into New Hampshire illegally to vote against both him and Ayotte, saying they both would have won ďif there hadnít been voter fraudĒ in the state. The source called the exchange ďuncomfortable.Ē It was first reported by Politico and independently confirmed by The Huffington Post.


Isn't Sparky from NH? Wasn't he a member of the tin foil hat brigade? Schwantz and Todd should work with him as he knows where the NH fever swamps are.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 03:14 AM

Back in October I receive a note thanking me for staying on top of things. I replied, "If Hillary wins, Todd, et al. will be screeching for months about rigged elections, finally filling Scalia's seat, etc.

If Trump wins they'll be beating their chests while waving their favorite firearms. It'll take a couple of years for them to realize how much more screwed they are with him but they'll never admit it."

Was I wrong. With the disappearance of Schwantz and Todd, it looks like it only took two weeks. They still won't admit it though.
Posted By: phill

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 03:30 AM

Trump has turned the US government into a circus.
The rest of the world is buying popcorn.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 03:31 AM

It was a circus long before Trump was elected
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 03:14 PM

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away
---Buffalo Springfield

From the department of ďYou canít make this **** upĒ:

Aides to Donald Trump say that the President is employing food tasters out of a fear of being poisoned, and has been for some time. The aides spoke on condition of anonymity.

Apparently this practice predates the election.

ďTrump knows how many people utterly despise him,Ē one aide said, ďand has for a long time.Ē ďOne night on the plane he told us that beginning immediately he would only eat in restaurants that didnít employ any Mexicans.Ē

Apparently the impracticality of that demand was completely lost on The Donald.

ďPriebus told him that his restriction would eliminate every restaurant in America as an option,Ē confirmed an aide. ďTrump said that if that was the case he wanted all food to be ordered carry-out and anonymously.Ē

Once food was brought back to the campaign, the tycoon made a big show of making sure that everybody got their food and had begun eating before he started.

ďHe tried to pretend that he was looking out for the little guy. ĎThe Donald doesnít eat until everybody else is fed,í he liked to say. But we knew what was really going on. And frankly, we were just as glad the food orders were being placed and picked up anonymously.Ē
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/11/17 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
It was a circus long before Trump was elected


Yeah, but nowhere near this level. The thought of having some sort of actual crisis in this chaos is pretty scary. Olbermann is pretty far left, but he makes a pretty comprehensive list of the mayhem and lies that have taken place so far.

http://video.gq.com/watch/the-close...ziest-things-trump-has-done-as-president

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 01:53 AM

Alternative Facts

Proving that he's still controlled by his image-conscious ego, Trump offered a new version of the voter fraud lie. According to Politico, Trump blamed his loss of the state of New Hampshire on "thousandsĒ of people who were 'brought in on buses' from neighboring Massachusetts to 'illegally' vote." Once again, he refused to provide any documentation of the claim.

Facts

The allegation was noticed the Federal Elections Commission (FEC). Ellen Weintraub, a George W. Bush appointee to the commission, made a public request for Trump to fess up. Her letter said in part that:

"President Trump has alleged an astonishing voter-fraud scheme [that] would constitute thousands of felony criminal offenses. [And that] democracy rests on the faith of the American people in the integrity of their elections. [...] I therefore call upon President Trump to immediately share his evidence with the public and with the appropriate law-enforcement authorities so that his allegations may be investigated promptly and thoroughly."
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 05:13 PM

"But isn't it better for all of us that he is tweeting rather than trying to govern?"
---Mark Cuban
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 05:41 PM

The NY Times managed to get a job application for the popular vote loser's White House.

[Linked Image]

Is a Job at the White House Right for You?

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 05:48 PM

While the world is paying attention to theatrical battles over President Trumpís executive orders and cabinet nominees, a largely unnoticed and potentially landmark case sits before the Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States. A petition for a writ of mandamus seeking to nullify the results of the 2016 U.S. Presidential election sits on the SCOTUS docket.

A petition for a writ of mandamus is a filing imploring a Court to take mandatory action in the nature of public duty. The writ Ė filed Jan 18, 2017 by Diane Blumstein, Donna Soodalter-Toman, and Nancy Goodman Ė has been assigned docket number 16-907.

The main argument for the writ is that, per Article IV ß 4 of the U.S. Constitution, it is the job of the federal government to keep U.S. territory safe from foreign invasion. The Constitution stipulates, ďThe United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion.Ē The petition cites evidence of such an invasion, namely the Russian hacking, and asks that the entire 2016 election be nullified, all the way back to the primaries, on the grounds that cyber-territory in the U.S. was invaded with the intention of altering the results of our Presidential election. The petitioners seek an entirely new election.

Per Title 28 of the U.S. Code ß 1251, SCOTUS has ďoriginal jurisdictionĒ over cases like this due to the involvement of a foreign state. There is no remedy for the foreign cyber-invasion, they argue, other than complete nullification.

No. 16-907

In Re Diane Blumstein, et al., Petitioners v.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 06:07 PM

Still lyin' after all these years.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 08:44 PM

Still lyin' after three weeks.

Today's propaganda effort was devoted to assuring American citizens that our national elections are, in fact, almost unimaginably corrupted. This is being done, by members of the new leader's team, for two reasons. The first is because their boss lost the popular vote and, because he is an unstable and easily infuriated little man-child, will tolerate no explanation other than invisible foul play. The second is as propaganda effort; the white nationalist elements of Trump's staffers and cabinet have a plan to widely roll back the rights of non-white voters in this nation.

If that requires falsely telling Americans that their own election system has been, all this time, so corrupt that they were foolish to ever trust the results, then that is what a traitor to his nation Stephen Miller will appear on television to do.

White House's Stephen Miller Doubles Down on Voter Fraud Claim, But Gives No Evidence

During a tense interview Sunday on ABC's This Week, host George Stephanopolous asked Miller to provide evidence of voter fraud after Trump falsely alleged last week that he would have won New Hampshire during the election if "thousands of people hadn't been bused in to illegally vote."
ďAnyone whoís worked in New Hampshire politics is aware of this," Miller said, who insisted that the White House has provided "enormous evidence" of voter fraud, citing the ďmassive numbers of non-citizens in this country who are registered to vote.Ē


The White House has provided no evidence of voter fraud whatsoever. It is a lie. The White House pointed to studies which showed no such thing. The White House claimed that somehow thousands of invisible people travelled on invisible buses to out-of-state polling places where compliant polling workers for some reason allowed them all to vote despite their names not being on the rolls to begin with and that even as "three to five million" similarly nation-breaking scams flooded over the country on election day, not one official anywhere in America was able to discover the scheme or catch even so much as one person involved with it.

"For the record, you have provided zero evidence that the president was the victim of massive voter fraud in New Hampshire," Stephanopoulos said at the end of the interview. "You have provided zero evidence of the president's claim that he would have won the popular vote if 3-to-5 million illegal immigrants hadn't voted. Zero evidence for either one of those claims.

Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job!
---Popular Vote Loser
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 08:46 PM

Alternative Facts

51% of republicans believe the Bowling Green Massacre as peddled by Kellyanne Conway is real.

Facts

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

Schwantz? Todd? Any thoughts?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 09:45 PM

Still lyin' after three weeks II

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me move on, though, to the question of voter fraud as well. President Trump again this week suggested in a meeting with senators that thousands of illegal voters were bused from Massachusetts to New Hampshire and thatís what caused his defeat in the state of New Hampshire, also the defeat of Senator Kelly Ayotte.

That has provoked a response from a member of the Federal Election Commission, Ellen Weintraub, who says, ďI call upon the president to immediately share New Hampshire voter fraud evidence so that his allegations may be investigated promptly.Ē

Do you have that evidence?

MILLER: I have actually, having worked before on a campaign in New Hampshire, I can tell you that this issue of busing voters into New Hampshire is widely known by anyone whoís worked in New Hampshire politics. Itís very real. Itís very serious. This morning, on this show, is not the venue for me to lay out all the evidence.


This is false. PolitiFact New Hampshire in November gave the stateís governor, Chris Sununu, a ďPants on FireĒ for claiming that voters were bused in ó and Sununu quickly retreated from his comment. New Hampshire Secretary of State Bill Gardner said voter fraud was not widespread problem, largely because the law requires voters to show a valid identification at the polls. If an ID is lacking, the voterís photo is taken, they have to sign an affidavit affirming their identify and then state officials follow up.

MILLER: But I can tell you this, voter fraud is a serious problem in this country. You have millions of people who are registered in two states or who are dead who are registered to vote. And you have 14 percent of noncitizens, according to academic research, at a minimum, are registered to vote, which is an astonishing statistic.

A 2012 Pew Center on the States study found problems with inaccurate voter registrations, people who registered in more than one state (which could happen if the voter moves and registers in the new state without telling the former state) and deceased voters whose information was still on the voter rolls. But the primary author of the Pew report tweeted in response to Trumpís staffís claim that he ďcan confirm that report made no findings re: voter fraud.Ē

As to the 14 percent figure ó stemming from research by Old Dominion University professors, using data from 2008 and 2010 ó that also has been misrepresented by Trump and his staff. They have ignored updates and challenges to the research. The researchers have also warned that ďit is impossible to tell for certain whether the noncitizens who responded to the survey were representative of the broader population of noncitizens.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/12/17 09:54 PM

Still lyin' after three weeks III

STEPHANOPOULOS: You canít make a ó hold on a second. You just claimed again that there was illegal voting in New Hampshire, people bused in from the state of Massachusetts. Do you have any evidence to back that up?

MILLER: Iím saying anybody ó George, go to New Hampshire. Talk to anybody who has worked in politics there for a long time. Everybody is aware of the problem in New Hampshire with respect to ó

STEPHANOPOULOS: Iím asking you as the White House senior ó hold on a second. Iím asking you as the White House senior policy adviser. The president made a statement, saying he was the victim of voter fraud, people are being bused from ó

MILLER: And the president ó the president ó the president was.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you have any evidence?

MILLER: If this is an issue that interests you, then we can talk about it more in the future. And we now have ó our governance is beginning to get stood up. But we have a Department of Justice and we have more officials.


An issue of voter fraud is something weíre going to be looking at very seriously and very hard.

But the reality is, is that we know for a fact, you have massive numbers of noncitizens registered to vote in this country. Nobody disputes that.

False. As shown above, this is disputed even by the researcher whose work is being cited by Miller: ďThere has been a tendency to misread our results as proof of massive voter fraud, which we donít think they are.Ē

MILLER: And many, many highly qualified people, like Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state, have looked deeply into this issue and have confirmed it to be true and have put together evidence.

And I suggest you invite Kris Kobach onto your show and he can walk you through some of the evidence of voter fraud in greater detail.

Miller mentioned Kobach, but the latterís efforts at proving voter fraud have been mocked in Kansas.

In a scathing editorial titled ďKris Kobach is a big fraud on Kansas voter fraud,Ē the Kansas City Star accused the ďpublicity-seekingĒ Kansas secretary of state of throwing out ďwild claimsĒ and wasting taxpayer funds as part of ďloathsome attacks on U.S. immigration policy.Ē

State Rep. John Carmichael noted that Kobach has not brought a single case against a noncitizen for voting illegally. All of the cases he has brought concern U.S. citizens accused of voting in more than one state.Ē

STEPHANOPOULOS: Just for the record, you have provided absolutely no evidence. The presidentís made a statement.

MILLER: The White House has provided enormous evidence with respect to voter fraud, with respect to people being registered in more than one state, dead people voting, noncitizens being registered to vote. George, it is a fact and you will not deny it, that there are massive numbers of noncitizens in this country who are registered to vote. That is a scandal.


As noted, the ďenormous evidenceĒ has been repeatedly debunked.

MILLER: We should stop the presses. And, as a country, we should be aghast about the fact that you have people who have no right to vote in this country registered to vote, canceling out the franchise of lawful citizens of this country.

Thatís the story we should be talking about. And Iím prepared to go on any show, anywhere, anytime, and repeat it and say the president of the United States is correct 100 percent.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you just repeated, though, you just made those declarations. But, for the record, you have provided zero evidence that the president was the victim of massive voter fraud in New Hampshire. You provided zero evidence that the presidentís claim that he would have won the general ó the popular vote ó if 3 million to 5 million illegal immigrants hadnít voted, zero evidence for either one of those claims.

Itís pretty shameless to cite research in a way that even the researcher says is inappropriate, and yet Miller keeps saying 14 percent of noncitizens are registered to vote. The Republican governor of New Hampshire has admitted that he was wrong to say buses of illegal voters voted in the election, and yet Miller shamelessly suggests that is the case. Miller cites a supposed expert on voter fraud, Kobach, who has been mocked for failing to prove his own claims of voter fraud. Miller also repeats a claim about people being registered to vote in two states, even though that is not an example of voter fraud.

Miller earns Four Pinocchios ó over and over again.

[Linked Image]

Come on Schwantz, you gotta have some witty comments about the lying bastards we're all stuck paying for. Ignore what's playing on the goat roper bar TV and face reality.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/13/17 01:14 AM

The Spy Revolt Against Trump Begins

Our Intelligence Community is so worried by the unprecedented problems of the Trump administrationónot only do senior officials possess troubling ties to the Kremlin, there are nagging questions about basic competence regarding Team Trumpóthat it is beginning to withhold intelligence from a White House which our spies do not trust.

Whatís going on was explained lucidly by a senior Pentagon intelligence official, who stated that ďsince January 20, weíve assumed that the Kremlin has ears inside the SITROOM,Ē meaning the White House Situation Room, the 5,500 square-foot conference room in the West Wing where the president and his top staffers get intelligence briefings. ďThereís not much the Russians donít know at this point,Ē the official added in wry frustration.
Posted By: H17cat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/13/17 02:21 AM

Rumor has it that Obama, is setting up an effort to take down Trump. If you want to know how that turns out, read "Liberty's Last Stand"

"Barry" does not fare well.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/14/17 04:18 AM

Flynn resigns amid controversy over Russia contacts

The sudden exit marks the most public display yet of disarray at the highest levels of the new administration, which has faced repeated questions over a slew of controversies and reports of infighting among senior aides during its first three weeks.

The controversy intensified after the report put Pence and several senior White House advisers in an uncomfortable position, as they had denied in TV interviews weeks earlier that Flynn discussed sanctions with the ambassador. Some administration officials said Flynn must have misled Pence and others.

AMF.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/14/17 03:33 PM

A letter from mental health professionals, including fifteen psychiatrists, concerning the popular vote loser's mental health.

To The Editors of the New York Times

To the Editor:

Charles M. Blow (column, nytimes.com, Feb. 9) describes Donald Trumpís constant need ďto grind the opposition underfoot.Ē As mental health professionals, we share Mr. Blowís concern.

Silence from the countryís mental health organizations has been due to a self-imposed dictum about evaluating public figures (the American Psychiatric Associationís 1973 Goldwater Rule). But this silence has resulted in a failure to lend our expertise to worried journalists and members of Congress at this critical time. We fear that too much is at stake to be silent any longer.

Mr. Trumpís speech and actions demonstrate an inability to tolerate views different from his own, leading to rage reactions. His words and behavior suggest a profound inability to empathize. Individuals with these traits distort reality to suit their psychological state, attacking facts and those who convey them (journalists, scientists).

In a powerful leader, these attacks are likely to increase, as his personal myth of greatness appears to be confirmed. We believe that the grave emotional instability indicated by Mr. Trumpís speech and actions makes him incapable of serving safely as president.

Lance Dodes, M.D.

Joseph Schachter, M.D., Ph.D.

Susan Radant, Ph.D.

Judith Schachter, M.D.

Jules Kerman, M.D., Ph.D

Jeffrey Seitelman, M.D., Ph.D.

Henry Friedman, M.D.

Babak Roshanaei-Moghaddam, MD

David Cooper, Ph.D.

Dena Sorbo, LCSW, BCD

Joseph Reppen, Ph.D.

Ernest Wallwork, Ph.D.

Judith E. Vida, M.D.

Richard Reichbart, J.D., Ph.D.

Joseph Abrahams, M.D.

Leslie Schweitzer-Miller, M.D.

Cheryl Y. Goodrich, Ph.D.

Lourdes Henares-Levy, M.D.

Alexandra Rolde, M.D.

Dr. med. Helen Schoenhals Hart

Eva D. Papiasvili, Ph.D.

Mali Mann, M.D.

Phyllis Tyson, Ph.D.

Era A. Loewenstein, Ph.D.

Marianna Adler, Ph.D.

Henry Nunberg, M.D.

Marc R. Hirsch, Ph.D.

Lora Heims Tessman, Ph.D.

Monisha Nayar-Akhtar, Ph.D.

Victoria Schreiber, M.A., L.M.S.W.

Penny M Freedman, Ph.D.

Merton A. Shill, JD. LLM., PhD.

Helen K. Gediman, Ph.D.

Michael P. Kowitt, Ph.D.

Leonard Glass, M.D.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/14/17 03:54 PM

Trump staffer Omarosa Manigault bul...ossiersĒ of negative information: report

During their altercation, Ryan said Manigault told her that she was among several African American journalists who were the subject of White House ďdossiers.Ē Manigault has previously said that Trump is keeping ďa listĒ of opponents, though at the time she was referring to Republicans who voted against Trump.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/14/17 04:33 PM

Lyin' basterds.

In a remarkable interview, Kellyanne Conwayís spin about Mike Flynn crashes and burns

The White House appears to have let its repeated false statements about Flynn stand for weeks after that notification from Yates, and has yet to account for what it did with the warning she conveyed. The disclosures about Flynn have added to the swirling suspicion about the Trump administrationís relationship with Moscow ó suspicion based in part on Trumpís repeated expressions of admiration for Russian President Vladi≠mir Putin.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/14/17 04:40 PM



While Trump scandals mount, Chaffetz decides to investigate... a cartoon character

Chaffetz, after his unending probes of the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton, hasnít shown any appetite to examine, say, the Trump administrationís ties to Russia or its many conflicts of interest. But the chairman has shown determination to probe, without fear or favor, the threat to America posed by Sid the Science Kid.

Chaffetz did say Conwayís Fox News infomercial was ďwrong, wrong, wrong.Ē Maybe heíll have a hearing on the matter ó once he dispenses with Sid the Science Kid and the rest of the late Hensonís empire. Many unanswered questions remain for Chaffetz to probe:

Does Snuffleupagus really exist?

Are Ernie and Bert just friends?

Does Cookie Monster floss?

Is the Count a vampire?

Does Mr. Noodle know how to talk?

What happened to Big Birdís parents?

And: Can you tell me how to get to Sesame Street?


These are important questions. Maybe Schwantz has the answers.
Posted By: H17cat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/14/17 08:20 PM

Hey 1616, have you finished reading "Liberty's Last Stand"?
Spoiler Alert, "Barry is taken out by one of his own.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/15/17 04:59 AM

No surprise here.

Neo-Nazis blame ďthe JewsĒ for Michael Flynnís resignation

Neo-Nazi writers are upset that retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn has resigned from his position as national security adviser. The anti-Semites are lionizing Flynn as ďone of our best guysĒ and a ďtrue patriotĒ who has ďbeen quite critical of the Jews in the past.Ē

The disgraced former national security adviser has repeatedly pushed toxic views. Last July, Flynn shared a tweet that read in part, ďNot anymore, Jews. Not Anymore.Ē Flynn also endorsed the work of racist author Mike Cernovich, who has frequently pushed white nationalist themes on his Twitter account.

The Daily Stormer is a neo-Nazi website that worships Adolf Hitler, posts defenses of the Holocaust, and attacks Jewish people as ďkikes.Ē Editor Andrew Anglin wrote that Flynnís resignation ďis dumb. Team Trump shouldnít give these people an inch. Flynn is one of our best guys. And he did nothing wrong.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/15/17 05:11 AM

Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence

American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/15/17 04:07 PM

Ignorance Is Strength

When I travel to Asia, Iím fairly often met at the airport by someone holding a sign reading ďMr. Paul.Ē Why? In much of Asia, names are given family first, personal second ó at home, the prime minister of Japan is referred to as Abe Shinzo. And the mistake is completely forgivable when itís made by a taxi driver picking up a professor.

Itís not so forgivable, however, if the president of the United States makes the same mistake when welcoming the leader of one of our most important economic and security partners. But there it was: Donald Trump referring to Mr. Abe as, yes, Prime Minister Shinzo.

Mr. Abe did not, as far as we know, respond by calling his host President Donald.

Trivial? Well, it would be if it were an isolated instance.

The legal expert Benjamin Wittes described the infamous executive order on refugees as ďmalevolence tempered by incompetence,Ē and noted that the order reads ďas if it was not reviewed by competent counsel at all.Ē

The president continues to rely on a chief adviser who, suspicious closeness to the Kremlin aside, appears to get his strategic information from right-wing conspiracy theorists.

Hearings for Betsy DeVos, the education secretary, revealed her to be completely ignorant about even the most elementary issues.

Before the Abe flub, the official agenda for the state visit by Theresa May, the British prime minister, repeatedly misspelled her name.

The Council of Economic Advisers, which is supposed to provide technical expertise, has been demoted from cabinet rank, but that hardly matters, since nobody has been nominated to serve.

Many in the GOP seem shocked to learn that repealing any major part of Obamacare will cause tens of millions to lose insurance.

All indications are that the people in charge have no idea what theyíre doing, on any front.

But meanwhile, whoís in charge? Crises happen, and we have an intellectual vacuum at the top. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Posted By: Jake

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/15/17 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by H17cat
Rumor has it that Obama, is setting up an effort to take down Trump. If you want to know how that turns out, read "Liberty's Last Stand"

"Barry" does not fare well.


Obama? seriously? The dude's been on a serious and well documented vacation since just about the day after the inauguration. I'm afraid nobody is to blame but Trump himself for this mess.

Nobody is making him sign executive orders that flaunt with the constitution

Nobody is making him sign executive orders that he hasn't even read.

Nobody is making the Whitehouse officials issue wildly conflicting statements four times just hours apart from each statement.

Nobody is making his administration post different copies of executive orders to the White House website that are different from what was legally submitted.

Nobody is making them release executive orders without a thorough review with the responsible departments and building an action plan for implementation.

Nobody is making him and his staff toy with direct and obvious conflict of interest issues hocking wares and personal business dealings on multiple occasions.

Nobody is making Trump attack the US intelligence people that are talking about his Russian ties instead of simply talk about the non-existence of his ties and stop doing things that give the appearance of Russian ties (like standing up for Russia repeatedly... or carrying on a completely different approach than the harsh language he directed at Obama for his reaction to a similar Russian fly-by last September).

No democrat made Flynn have documented discussions with Russians about sanctions before he was in office.

I could go on...but my point is, you don't have to be left or right to see that this administration is not off to a great start of their own volition. You're really going to have to lay out a detailed case that this is somebody elses fault.

And let me remind you, we're only in week 4 of 208!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/15/17 05:15 PM

Itís bigger than Flynn. New Russia revelations widen Trumpís credibility gap.

Two days after Trumpís victory, Russiaís deputy foreign minister told a reporter in Moscow that ďthere were contactsĒ between Russian officials and the Trump campaign. ďObviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,Ē he said. That prompted a vigorous denial from Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks, who insisted there had been ďno contact with Russian officials.Ē

ďThe call logs and intercepted communications are part of a larger trove of information that the F.B.I. is sifting through as it investigates the links between Mr. Trumpís associates and the Russian government, as well as the hacking of the D.N.C. Ö As part of its inquiry, the F.B.I. has obtained banking and travel records and conducted interviewsÖ

CNN published additional details, as well: ďHigh-level advisers close to Ö Trump were in constant communication during the campaign with Russians known to US intelligence, (according to) multiple current and former intelligence, law enforcement and administration officials...

Where's the popcorn Schwantz?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/15/17 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
[quote=H17cat]
...but my point is, you don't have to be left or right to see that this administration is not off to a great start of their own volition.


I love the left/right ideology when being applied to American politics. Aren't all of our politicians on the far left?

To clarify the scale, the absolute far right is complete anarchy. Zero governmental control at all. The absolute far left is complete totalitarianism. You don't do anything without clearing it with somebody in an official position.

Which end of that scale are we closer to? And how varying are the last ten fuckwits from one another on that scale? laugh
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/16/17 03:44 AM

umm No.... look at 20th century history!

The democratically elected countries aspire to a liberal world order designed,set forth and carefully built post WWII despite a Cold war and subsequent collapse of the USSR. These first world countries get scored on a Burkian conservative vs liberal social democrat axis as they implement this shared liberal world order goal. It is foundational that there be constitutional rule of law for both conservatives and liberals in functional democracies. It led to the most rapid increase in global wealth and living standards in human history and reduced war to regional conflicts. Their mission was to contain the authoritarians and their fellow travelers.

What you describe is a libertarian vs communtarian scale. Of course organizing the world on this axis and the battle for supremacy between these two poles led to Global Depression and two world wars plus the agreement which divided up the Ottoman empire creating ruling minorities of sectarian majorities. We THOUGHT this was relegated to the dustbins of history post war till Regan, Paul Ryan and the Koch brothers rebranded it and torqued the Republican party to rebirth it as small government conservatism... aka the ann rand makers versus takers philosophy.

Then of course you get the always present authoritarians. Hitler,Sadam Husein, Kim jun Un, Trump, Putin, Castro, Mugabe, Chavez and any number of other strong men with their unwitting or incapacitated sheep in tow.


So that is the big picture question... will the Authoritarians in US leadership of the feckless libertarian right change the direction of world history? A return to the Calvin Coolige era is a feature... not a bug. Or will the liberal world order (with the ominpresent healthy battle between burkean conservatives and the progressive liberals) figure out the domestic economics, political messaging and basic politics and keep the world growing with an ever expanding world economy.

If they don't... the era of I got mine... FU! will be a simple zero sum game.... where survival is the ultimate goal.

Remember the big picture of 20th century history when the end of liberal world order began!
Bush I fought the Iraq war I to preserve the liberal world order concept of borders are not changeable by invasion, and helped the Germans establish the whole German state. Clinton intervened in Yugoslavia to stop further genocide and re establish borders in southern europe. After the Bush/Clinton rebuilding job from Regan's mistakes... the US was flush with cash, real incomes had risen ... and by and large the world was at peace.

The liberal world order consensus ended when Bush II, Tony Blair and Putin reacted to muslim extremism (World trade center and Chechnya) by illiberal solutions. They just discarded the principles of the liberal world order in the name/service of security/maintaining their power. Bush invaded Iraq under a weak pretense of self defense against WMD???, and pro American/Randian values to remake the middle east and buggered it up for years. He dumped international law to create black sites and torture as a tactic. (He could not have stood for reelection in 2 years had he not invaded somebody with a name) Putin crushed Chechnya, invaded Georgia, Ukraine and annexed the Ukraine's Crimea and completely undermined the notion of international borders. Obama spent 8 years trying to rebuild that liberal world order... DECLINING to invade Lybia or Syria or any of the fubars in Africa while wielding power in killing terrorists from extremest factions hell bent on fomenting religious jihad.

It is not clear that you can put humpty dumpty back together after Bush. Obama's record is mixed... not for lack of trying tho.


The scoreboard favors the illiberal authoritarian/libertarian side with Trump et al aligning with Putin.

Trump of course wants to get on with the religious war, renegotiate the trade rules as a way to win a zero sum game and not continue with the liberal trading global order. He wants to take America back to an era where Jim Crow was just fine and domestic terrorism was swept under the rug.. Japanese internment of CITIZENS was just fine and all that matters is America first and then your libertarian economic interests.

The post war order of things was not divine good luck.... it was a product of policy's that prioritized global growth and self imposed limits on domination by the sole super power taking care of number 1. A large minority of voters elected Trump to spite the liberal world order.

The power driving illiberal solutions is a lack of judgement by the people themselves.
100 people die every day from distracted driving (texting and cell phones)... yet a Handful of victims of muslim extremists in a year are enough to drive the country in rejecting their 50 year old post war commitment to taking care of refugees. The almost equal number of terror victims of the racist right are ignored. Really? what standards are you using?
Emails? really!
Clinton foundation issues ... really?
Trump OMG in spades...

Is this status quo nirvana???.... Oh hell no... Are there solutions available to redistribute wealth equitably not taken because of political power... yes.

Is the solution to embrace a very illiberal movement that uses authoritarianism and the oligarchs fighting it out with libertarian utopians to forge a restoration of the good ol days of the early 1900s while preserving their latter day robber baron status and privilege???

Choose wisely! authoritarian or liberal constitutional democracy. (But could you at least find some literate authoritarians, .... to and too are distinguished in what... the third grade!)

Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/16/17 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Jake
[quote=H17cat]
...but my point is, you don't have to be left or right to see that this administration is not off to a great start of their own volition.


I love the left/right ideology when being applied to American politics. Aren't all of our politicians on the far left?

To clarify the scale, the absolute far right is complete anarchy. Zero governmental control at all. The absolute far left is complete totalitarianism. You don't do anything without clearing it with somebody in an official position.

Which end of that scale are we closer to? And how varying are the last ten fuckwits from one another on that scale? laugh

Seems like complete anarchy to me, and its only 4 weeks in.
Confusing/contradicting statements about policy, absurd spokespeople making crazy statements (like this guy, complete nutter IMO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHiHuTmxxgI)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/16/17 03:50 PM

The irony of Trump whining about leaks

Donald Trump has benefited from leaks more than the CEO of Depends.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/16/17 04:17 PM

Mr. President: ĎJust who the hell do you think you are?í

Letís be brutally clear here. If you were a smart guy with unimpeachable integrity and a good heart who was enacting wise policies for the betterment of all humankind, youíd still be subject to sharp scrutiny from news media, oversight from Congress, restraint by the judiciary ó and public opinion.

And you, of course, are none of those things. I know you fetishize strength. I know your pal Vladimir would never stand still for reporters and judges yapping at him.

Posted By: H17cat

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 12:09 AM

So, to be fair and balanced, did you read all the comments?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 02:20 AM

This administration is running like a fine tuned machine.
---Popular Vote Loser 2/16/17
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 04:00 AM

Still Lyin' After All These Weeks

The dizzying, mesmerizing Trump show

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 04:15 AM

Republican Painter: It's time to impeach Trump

ďI swear, it's like we elected the Clampetts, if the Clampetts were grifters.Ē

After the election, many hoped that Trump would ďgrow upĒ into the job Ė that he couldnít possibly be as bad as some thought. Well, itís gone the other way. The bully has become a more entitled bully. Anyone disagreeing is attacked. Policy is announced in illiterate tweets.

The leader of the band of Mad Hatters occupying the White House has already insulted allied world leaders, issued illegal and badly written orders, impugned a ďso-calledĒ judge appointed by his own party, and appointed the least-qualified cabinet ever. The first secretary of state was Thomas Jefferson. Trump appointed a big-oil executive with close ties to Russia. The first treasury secretary was Alexander Hamilton. Trump appointed a former Goldman Sachs exec who got rich foreclosing on homeowners. The national security advisor lasted 24 days.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 04:18 AM

Admit it: Trump is unfit to serve

The Michael Flynn fiasco was the entirely predictable product of the indiscipline, deceit, incompetence and moral indifference that characterize Donald Trumpís approach to leadership.

Even worse, Trumpís loyalties are now in doubt. Questions about his relationship with Vladimir Putin and Russia will not go away, even if congressional Republicans try to slow-walk a transparent investigation into what ties Trump has with Putinís Russia ó and who on his campaign did what, and when, with Russian intelligence officials and diplomats.

It will be said that Trump was elected and thus deserves some benefit of the doubt. Isnít it rash to declare him unfit after so little time?

The answer is no, because the Trump we are seeing now is fully consistent with the vindictive, self-involved and scattered man we saw during the 17 months of his campaign. In one of the primary debates, Jeb Bush said of Trump: ďHeís a chaos candidate and heíd be a chaos president.Ē Rarely has a politician been so prophetic.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 04:25 AM

She Smith of Faux News comments on the popular vote loser's presser.

ďItís sort of our job to let you know when things are said that arenít true,Ē Smith began. ďThis president keeps telling untrue things and he does it every single time heís in front of a microphone Ö some of them arenít really big, but theyíre coming from the president.Ē

Smith noted the biggest question right now is the nature of Trump campaign aidesí ďconstant contactĒ with the Russian government during the 2016 election, adding ďwe donít get a straight answer on this question.Ē

ďHe says Russia is a ruse, itís fake news. The leaks are real, but the news is fake. So, thatís impossible,Ē Smith said later adding, ďitís very confusing.Ē

The Fox News host then repeated that it is his job to point out when the President of the United States says things that are ďdemonstrably, unquestionably, opinion aside, 100 percent false.Ē

Smith later slammed Trump for deflecting blame onto reporters and attempting to delegitimize negative stories about his administration. The Fox host specifically mentioned Trumpís treatment of CNNís Jim Acosta, saying, ďItís crazy what weíre watching every single day. Itís absolutely crazy.Ē

ďHe keeps repeating ridiculous throwaway lines that are not true at all and sport of avoiding this issue of Russia as if weíre some kind of fools for asking the question,Ē Shep said. ďReally? Weíre fools for asking the questions? No sir, we are not fools for asking the questions. And we demand to know the answer to this question.Ē


Who woulda thunk?
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 12:49 PM

hobie1616
You are one angry sailor
Better check your blood pressure
You are about to explode
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Hullflyer1
hobie1616
You are one angry sailor
Better check your blood pressure
You are about to explode

Nope. I'm laughing so much at the popular vote loser I'm crying.

I'm laughing at the dopes who voted for him.

I'm laughing at the morans (sic) who repeat his lies.

Fact-checking President Trumpís news conference

My BP is fine. My RHR is 42.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 03:59 PM

ĎIím a Dead Man Walkingí

Mark Sanford is not like most Republicans in Washington.

His digs at Trump cover the spectrum. The president, Sanford says, ďhas fanned the flames of intolerance.Ē He has repeatedly misled the public, most recently about the national murder rate and the mediaís coverage of terrorist attacks. He showed a lack of humility by using the National Prayer Breakfast to ridicule Arnold Schwarzeneggerís ratings on ďThe Celebrity Apprentice.Ē Most worrisome, Sanford says, Trump is unprepared for the presidency.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 04:37 PM

Trumpís Public Humiliation

The Financial Times, Washington Post, CNN, and other news outlets are reporting that Harward turned down the offer in part because Trump wouldnít let him fire several officials who Flynn had hired for his staff and install his own team instead. This suggests that Trump is adamant on keeping certain people loyal to himóincluding Deputy National Security Adviser K.T. McFarland, a former Fox News commentator who Trump admired. The news reports donít mention whether Harward made demands about Steve Bannon, Trumpís chief political strategist who wrote the executive order that placed himself on the NSC Principals Committee and has created a parallel NSC structure called the Strategic Initiatives Group, comprising a few extreme right-wing associates. But any serious person would insist on the dismantling of this weird group as another condition for taking the job.

CNN quoted one of Harwardís friends saying that, in mulling over the decision, he was persuaded most of all by the sheer dysfunction of Trumpís presidency, describing the job he was offered as ďa **** sandwich.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/17/17 04:52 PM

Donald Trumpís disastrous reality s...ing president searches for a new villain

CNNís Jake Tapper called it ďunhingedĒ and ďwildĒ and a ďFestivus airing of grievances.Ē MSNBCís Chris Hayes tweeted, ďWe can agree across all ideological, political and partisan divisions that this is a deranged performance, right?Ē Even Shep Smith of Fox News seemed shell-shocked, saying, ďIt is crazy what we are watching every day; it is absolutely crazy.Ē CBS Newsí Scott Pelley said, ďToday we learned the length of the presidentís fuse.Ē (Which unfortunately brought to mind what my great-aunt used to say about her first husband: ďHe was a 6-foot, 3-inch stick of dynamite with a little bitty fuse.Ē)

[A]s the official White House press conference disintegrated further into unhinged criticism and belligerent sniping, reporters seated in the East Room could hardly contain themselves. There was an awkward mix of laughing with Trump, and chuckling at him as the president kept venting and sneering. The reporters present couldnít stop quietly gossipping about Trump. ďWhat is going on?Ē one journalist whispered to another. ďThis is insaneĒ and ďWhat the hell?Ē were other popular refrains in the room.


Are ya laughing Hullflyer1? How's your BP doing?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/18/17 12:24 AM

What a Failed Trump Administration Looks Like

Judging by his Thursday press conference, President Trumpís mental state is like a train that long ago left freewheeling and iconoclastic, has raced through indulgent, chaotic and unnerving, and is now careening past unhinged, unmoored and unglued.

The Civil Service has a thousand ways to ignore or sit on any presidential order. The court system has given itself carte blanche to overturn any Trump initiative, even on the flimsiest legal grounds. The intelligence community has only just begun to undermine this president.

President Trump can push all the pretty buttons on the command deck of the Starship Enterprise, but donít expect anything to actually happen, because they are not attached.

For the past 70 years most nations have instinctively looked to the U.S. for leadership, either to follow or oppose. But in capitals around the world, intelligence agencies are drafting memos with advice on how to play Donald Trump.

The first conclusion is obvious. This administration is more like a medieval monarchy than a modern nation-state. Itís more ďThe Madness of King GeorgeĒ than ďThe Missiles of October.Ē The key currency is not power, itís flattery.

The corollary is that Trump is ripe to be played. Give the boy a lollipop and he wonít notice if you steal his lunch. If you want to roll the Trump administration, youíve got to get in line.

The Israelis got a possible one-state solution.

The Chinese got Trump to flip-flop on the ďOne ChinaĒ policy.

The Europeans got him to do a 180 on undoing the Iran nuclear deal.

Vladimir Putin was born for a moment such as this. He is always pushing the envelope. After gifting Team Trump with a little campaign help, the Russian state media has suddenly turned on Trump and Russian planes are buzzing U.S. ships. The bear is going to grab what it can.


Would you like a lollypop Hullflyer1? Will you share with Schwantz and Todd?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/18/17 12:29 AM

This should give you a good laugh Hullflyer1

The Downfall of Kellyanne Conway

As Kellyanneís once-forceful cable news denials have disintegrated into whimpers, I canít say I feel anything for her at all. I donít mind when people point out how tired she looks. I simply cannot dredge up any sympathy for a person who has acknowledged the structural problems most women face only when she is personally facing them, or used them as derailing tactics when sheís losing an argument. I canít mourn the downfall of a fair-weather feminist, a woman who has used her power to hurt other women.

Ms. Conway made her bed. And now itís time for her to get some sleep.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/18/17 12:43 AM

I'm not laughing at this Hullflyer1. Are you?

Trump familyís elaborate lifestyle is a Ďlogistical nightmareí ó at taxpayer expense

Barely a month into the Trump presidency, the unusually elaborate lifestyle of Americaís new first family is straining the Secret Service and security officials, stirring financial and logistical concerns in several local communities, and costing far beyond what has been typical for past presidents ó a price tag that, based on past assessments of presidential travel and security costs, could balloon into the hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of a four-year term.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/18/17 02:56 AM

"Little" Jared Kushner gets in on the popular vote loser's grift.

Jared Kushner complained to CNN about Ana Navarro. She had a scorching response.

Don't mess with the ladies "baby boy." They'll hand your butt to you.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/18/17 03:06 AM

ďThe president decided to hold an impromptu press conference, and it was a sight to see. It reminded me of something youíd see before a pay-per-view boxing event. Ö The tone of the press conference was like if your dad found a pack of cigarettes under your mattress.Ē
---Jimmy Kimmel

ďDid you hear him? He said heís not ranting and raving, but again, what president hasnít had to say ĎIím not ranting and ravingí? Who can forget Lincolnís tirade at Gettysburg? Or FDRís fireside meltdowns? And, of course, Ronald Reagan famously saying, ĎMr. Gorbachev, if you donít tear down this ****ing wall, Iím going to lose my ****!íĒ
---Seth Meyers

Trump at his press conference: ďTo be honest, I inherited a mess.Ē

Stephen Colbert: ďNo. You inherited a fortune. We elected a mess.Ē
---The Late Show

"At an international tennis match, U.S. officials accidentally played the Nazi national anthem. White House adviser Steve Bannon was outraged and said, 'Weíre not rolling that out till August! Címon!'"
---Conan O'Brien

"The White House 'counseled' Kellyanne Conway after she violated a federal ethics rule by promoting Ivanka Trump's clothing line on Fox News. Counseled? Her job title is literally ĎCounselor to the President.í So Trump's White House is so dysfunctional his counselor needs a counselor. That's like your Uber driver asking you to get out and push."
---Michael Che, SNL

And eight years agoÖ

"How about President Barack Obama's first prime time press conference last night? He was cogent, eloquent, and in complete command of the issues. I'm thinking to myself, what the hell am I supposed to do with that?Ē
---David Letterman
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 05:04 AM

None dare call it treason: As the F...der the evidence that Trump is a traitor

In all, the Republican Party and its voters have abandoned their Cold War bona fides and their (somewhat exaggerated) reputation as die-hard enemies of Russia and the former Soviet Union. To borrow from the language of spy craft, it would seem that they have been ďflippedĒ by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

In the midst of these not so new ďrevelationsĒ about Michael Flynn and other members of Trumpís inner circle, the news media is now fixated on the Nixonian question: ďWhat did the president know and when did he know it?Ē This question ought to not be treated like a mystery. The answer should be readily apparent because it is a direct reflection of Trumpís political and personal values.

Trump has repeatedly shown that he is a fascist authoritarian who admires political strongmen and autocrats such as Putin. In keeping with that leadership style, Trump has surrounded himself with family members and other advisers so as to insulate himself from criticism ó and also to neuter any political rivals. In violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution, Trump is also using the office of the presidency to personally enrich himself, his family members and other members of his inner circle, such as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. Donald Trump also has a longtime pattern of open admiration for gangsters and organized crime.

In sum, Trumpís presidency has many of the traits of a criminal enterprise and a financial shakedown operation, masquerading as a democratically elected government.

In an earlier essay for Salon, I argued that for a variety of reasons that Trump can be considered a traitor to the United States. By that standard, his voters and other supporters who do not denounce him are also traitors, and any Republican officials who continue to back Trump are traitors as well.

Shwantz. Todd. Have you been flipped? Was it painful?

Where are my traitors?!?!
Posted By: Pressure Drop

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 05:42 AM

Hobie1616 do you ever tire of replying to your own posts over and over?
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 06:39 AM

We can all cut and paste our favorite comments, but really. There is a lot more to do on West Maui.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by H17cat
We can all cut and paste our favorite comments, but really. There is a lot more to do on West Maui.



Apparently there isn't more to do.

I've had him on ignore for years. I only see mikeys posts when I want to. It's a much more pleasant experience.
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


Apparently there isn't more to do.

I've had him on ignore for years. I only see mikeys posts when I want to. It's a much more pleasant experience.


How do you add someone to your ignore list?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by H17cat
We can all cut and paste our favorite comments, but really. There is a lot more to do on West Maui.
Apparently there isn't more to do.

I've had him on ignore for years. I only see mikeys posts when I want to. It's a much more pleasant experience.

It's mikey's Carl. Try to stay up.

When you smell something, say something.
---Jon Stewart

Donald Trump Calls The Media ĎThe Enemy Of The American Peopleí

On Wednesday the WH called the media the "opposition party." Today it is the "enemy of the American people."

On December 1972 tape, Nixon told Kissinger, ďThe press is the enemy, the establishment is the enemy, the professors are the enemy."
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 06:33 PM

This should make wing nuts everywhere happy, happy, happy!!

Ted Nugent, Alleged Draft Dodger, Weighs 2018 Senate Run

ďIf these GOP sonsabitches dont get it right this time I will come charging in as the ultimate WE THE PISSED OFF PEOPLE Mr FixIt Consitutional firebreathing shitkicker candidate from hell!Ē Nugent posted.

Nugent is perhaps best known for his 1977 interview with High Times, in which he said he avoided the Vietnam draft by defecating in his pants. Yep.

Wangy dang sweet poopytang.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 06:41 PM

Alternate Facts

President Donald Trumpís administration labeled The Associated Pressís reporting on a leak ď100 percent falseĒ on Friday morning...

Facts

... only to acknowledge less than an hour later that the story was based on a real document.

Trump Team Denies Report On National Guard, Then Admits It Was Based On A Real Document
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 06:44 PM

On Wednesday the WH called the media the "opposition party." Today it is the "enemy of the American people."

"We have met the Enemy, and He is Us" Pogo




Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 09:01 PM

When the Maine Maniac says you've run off the rails you know you're in trouble.

Even Maine Gov. Paul LePage thinks President Trump needs to take charge of his administration

Last year he came under fire for claiming that heroin dealers with names like ďD-Money, Smoothie, Shifty ó these types of guys ó they come from Connecticut and New York, they come up here, they sell their heroin, they go back home. Incidentally, half the time they impregnate a young white girl before they leave, which is a real sad thing because then we have another issue we have to deal with down the road.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/18/17 09:04 PM

"This just isnít going to last long because he just doesnít have control of reality."

ďMorning JoeĒ reveals the secret panic of GOP lawmakers after Trumpís unhinged press conference

ďThe No. 1 story is the stability of the president of the United States. The first 35 minutes of that press conference was watching a president of the United States who has lost a grip on reality. It was as if he performed for himself because he needed to perform like that because he needed to convince himself he was president.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/19/17 12:56 AM

ďHarry PotterĒ author J.K. Rowling tweeted: ďUp until an hour ago, the scariest thing Iíd ever watched was Psycho.

Was it more like 'SNL' or 'Dr. Strangelove'?

Trump referred to his Cabinet ó from which National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was just fired ó as a ďfine-tuned machine,Ē called it the greatest Cabinet ever assembled (though itís not fully assembled), asked an African American reporter if she could arrange a meeting between him and the Congressional Black Caucus, and accused Hilary Clinton of giving uranium to the Russians.

Itís doubtful if even Peter Sellers, who played President Muffley in ďStrangelove,Ē could duplicate the sheer absurdity of the unscheduled, seemingly unending, presser.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/19/17 05:41 PM

Could one of you wingers go by the WH and take the popular vote loser out for lunch or a beer?

The Summary: Hair FŁhrer vs. The Media

A Trump adviser tells us the president is experiencing acute ďcabin feverĒ in the White House ó hemmed in by headaches, unable to easily pop out to a restaurant the way he could in New York.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/19/17 05:50 PM

You look at what's happening last night in Sweden! Sweden! Who would believe this, Sweden!
---Popular Vote Loser

This happened in Sweden Friday night, Mr President

3:24 PM (local time): A man set himself on fire at Sergels torg, a plaza in central Stockholm. He was taken to the hospital with severe burns. There is so far no information on his motives but the intelligence service is not part of the investigation.

6:42 PM: The famous singer Owe ThŲrnqvist had some technical problems during rehearsal for the singing competition ĒMelodifestivalenĒ. (However, the 87 year old singer still managed to secure the victory the very next day.)

8:23 PM: A man died in hospital, after an accident in the workplace earlier that day in the city of BorŚs.

8:46 PM: Due to harsh weather in the northern parts of Sweden the road E10 was closed between KatterjŚkk and Riksgršnsen. Due to strong winds and snow in the region the Met office also issued an avalanche warning.

12:17 AM: Police officers initiated a chase for a fleeing Peugeot through central parts of the Swedish capital of Stockholm. The pursuit ended in police officers ramming the suspect at Engelbrektsgatan. The driver is now accused of driving under the influence, traffic violation and car theft.

IN LIGHTER NEWS:
11:23 AM: Ok, letís not be fake news, this story took place in the autumn, but was reported Friday before lunch and we thought you would like it. A wooden moose got the attention of a lovesick moose bull. It all happened in 79 year old Ove Lindqvistís garden in Byske outside SkellefteŚ, northern Sweden. ĒI thought it was going to start a fight, instead it humped the wooden moose thriceĒ, he said.

______________________
This morning the survivors of the Bowling Green massacre announced they will be journeying to Sweden to show support for what is happening in that country. The trip came together quickly, soon after the president highlighted the terror that is occurring in Sweden because of their immigration policies. It was for the Bowling Green group nothing less than a call to arms to help and support their Swedish brothers and sisters in their hours of need.

ďThe parallels between the Bowling Green massacre and the terror in Sweden are extraordinary,Ē said one member of the Bowling Green group.

ďI feel as the terror victims of Sweden and I exist in the same small universe,Ē said another.

The group expects to be welcomed by the Swedish government. ďI have contacted them and they said we could get together and smoke a little something,Ē said the leader of the group. ďAn activity that I hope will bring us together in important ways. We share so much, we are in many ways the only ones who can understand each other.Ē

The group will then stop at Maro-Lago on the way home. ďWe wonít be able to get in of course,Ē the leader of the group said. ďBut we will hold a candle light vigil outside, across the water, eating Subway sandwiches. We just want the president to know we are there and we existÖ.at least in his own mind.


Do you understand why I'm laughing Hullflyer1?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/20/17 03:18 PM

Hell-Demons from another dimension invading our country with help from Satan-worshipping Dems
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/20/17 03:39 PM

Is Red State the bible for literate wing nuts? If it is there must be a few tin foil hats spinning.

And there is nothing more concerning than seeing all the rabid Trump fanatics, eating up this unconstitutional load of steaming horse crap that heís feeding them, in small, manageable bites.

Trumpís Feud With The Media Needs To Stop Now

ďI want to speak to you without the filter of the fake news,Ē Trump said to huge cheers.

Translation: I want to ladle raw sewage directly into your ears.

ďThe dishonest media, which has published one false story after another with no sources, even though they pretend they have them Ė they make them up in many cases. They just donít want to report the truth.Ē

Almost as dishonest and false as promoting a story of a political opponentís multiple affairs, with no sources. Or that part about all but directly accusing that same opponentís father of being involved with the murder of a U.S. president. Also dishonest, false, and meant to harm a manís family and their reputation.

ďMany of our greatest presidents fought with the media and called them out,Ē Trump said, mentioning Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln.

I know Thomas Jefferson had a rancorous relationship with the press, but rather than whine about ďfake news,Ē he remained stoic and moored in principle.

ďWhen the media lies to people, I will never, ever, let them get away with it. I will do whatever I can that they donít get away with it,Ē he said. ďThey have their own agenda and their agenda is not your agenda.Ē

Their agenda is to report the news, so of course itís not the same agenda. People have different jobs. Stop trying to work up an army of Brown shirts to burn down newspaper and cable news offices.

ďBut despite all their lies, misrepresentations and false stories they could not defeat us in the primaries or general election and weíll continue to expose them as what they are and most importantly weíll continue to win, win, win,Ē said Trump.

Because the media that you demonize now gave you several billion in free air time during the run up to the election. They couldnít defeat you because they were working for you.

I donít know about the win, win, win, but I am convinced that you will continue to be a fool, fool, fool until you get bored or Steve Bannon fires you.

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/20/17 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Redtwin
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


Apparently there isn't more to do.

I've had him on ignore for years. I only see mikeys posts when I want to. It's a much more pleasant experience.


How do you add someone to your ignore list?


I couldn't find the option looking for it now, but it's on here somewhere. It's worth the time spent searching
Posted By: Redtwin

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/21/17 12:02 AM

Found it! Ah... the peace. I can start thinking of sailing again.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 02/21/17 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
Did you hear the news today?

Of course not- the mainstream media IS the democraptic party, and wont publish/discuss it.


"If you want to preserve democracy as we know it, you have to have a free and, many times, adversarial press. And without it, I am afraid that we would lose so much of our individual liberties over time.

That's how dictators get started. They get started by suppressing free press.

In other words, a consolidation of power. When you look at history, the first thing that dictators do is shut down the press. And I'm not saying that President Trump is trying to be a dictator. I'm just saying we need to learn the lessons of history."
---Sen. John McCain
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/22/17 12:26 AM

Another day, another entry into the seemingly unending list of stories about Trump supporters being delicate little flowers who demand America's respect but are too damn stupid to earn it.

Those who journeyed to Trumpís Saturday evening event on Floridaís Space Coast said that since the election, they have unfriended some of their liberal relatives or friends on Facebook. They donít understand why major media outlets donít see the same successful administration they have been cheering on. And theyíre increasingly frustrated that Democrats ó and some Republicans ó are too slow to approve some of the presidentís nominees and too quick to protest his every utterance.

Are you a delicate flower Schwantz? Todd is.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/22/17 02:13 AM

Just as a curiosity mikey, why weren't you all up in arms when Barry was showing his true neo-con colors?

Btw, the rhetoric you post is exactly why the the psychopath in red was elected instead of the blue one.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/22/17 02:42 AM

Karl
Forget the headliners... Republicans under Obama have obtained bullet proof margins in many states. The question is why?

What message do you hear that gives republicans these bullet proof advantages in state legislatures, house and senate?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/22/17 04:16 AM

I don't have an answer as to why. It baffles me that anyone would cast a vote in the Republican or Democrat way after the amount of fuckery that has taken place over the last could of decades.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/22/17 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
It baffles me that anyone would cast a vote in the Republican or Democrat way


in many cases, those were the only two choices. My ballot card is pretty slim for all but the highest offices...
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/22/17 05:20 PM

Doctors: We could not create a leader more dangerously MENTALLY ILL than Donald Trump

ďIf we could construct a psychiatric Frankenstein monster,Ē Dr. Gartner said. ďwe could not create a leader more dangerously mentally ill than Donald Trump. He is a paranoid, psychopathic, narcissist who is divorced from reality and lashes out impulsively at his imagined enemies. And this is someone as you said who is handling the nuclear codes.Ē

ďI would argue to my colleagues that those who donít speak out,Ē Gartner said. ďare being unethical. If we have some knowledge and understanding about the unique danger that Donald Trump presents through our psychiatric training and donít say something about it, History is not going to judge us kindly.Ē

ďHe lies because of his sociopathic tendencies that Dr. Gartner was talking about,Ē Dr. Dodes said. ďHe lies in the way anybody who scams people does. Heís tried to sell an idea or a product by telling you something that is untrue. Ö There is also the kind of lie he has that in a way is more serious; that he has a loose grip on reality. We can say that because he lies about things that arenít;t that important. Ö I think what that indicates is that he canít stand an aspect of reality that he doesnít want. So he rejects it. His grasp of reality, his attention to reality is loose, an extremely dangerous trait in a president. It actually makes him unqualified.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/23/17 01:27 AM

Where's all my anti-science bone heads?

ĎWe did not start this fightí: In Trump eraís dawn, scientists rally in Boston

ďOur colleagues who have been attacked have not been attacked because they did something wrong,Ē Oreskes continued. ďThey have been attacked because they did something rightĒ ó namely, producing information that proved politically inconvenient.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/23/17 01:33 AM

Where's all my little Vlad lovers?

Vladimir Putinís popularity is soaring among Republicans

Vladimir Putin is on a bit of a hot streak among Republicans of late. In new Gallup polling, more than 3 in 10 Republicans have a favorable view of Putin ó almost three times the percentage who said the same in 2015.


Do you think Schwantz and Todd are attending Young Pioneers classes at former FEMA camps?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/23/17 01:38 AM

Kellyanne Conway got pulled off the air for a week

The counselor to President Trump, one of the new administration's most visible faces, was pulled off the air by the White House, CNN's Dylan Byers reported Wednesday afternoon. It has been more than a week since Conway appeared on television ó an eternity, by her standard. The White House continued to trot her out after she coined the phrase "alternative facts," cited a "Bowling Green massacre" that never happened and promoted Ivanka Trump's products on Fox News, but apparently Trump could not abide statements that undermined the administration's official message.


Maybe Vlad has her is FSB school on how to tell more convincing lies.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/23/17 02:42 AM

Mexico may play some catchup.

Mexico may strike back. Hereís how.

PRESIDENT TRUMP has a good idea of the power the United States wields over Mexico, and the pain it may inflict ó the construction of a wall Mexico fiercely opposes; taxes that could be slapped on Mexican imports, wreaking havoc on its economy; deportations of undocumented Mexican immigrants living in the United States, who would be thrust back into a country that would struggle to absorb them. Mr. Trump might have a fuzzier idea of the pain Mexico, its people furious and its pride wounded by his taunts and contempt, might inflict on the United States.

Start with those deportations. At least half of Americaís 11 million unauthorized immigrants are Mexican, but many have no documents proving their nationality. For the Trump administration to deport them, it would need cooperation from Mexico, which cannot be forced to accept deportees without certifying that they are Mexicans. As former Mexican foreign minister Jorge G. CastaŮeda has already warned, Mr. Trump can round up hundreds of thousands or millions of migrants, but without Mexicoís cooperation, they could clog U.S. detention centers and immigration courts ó at enormous cost and, conceivably, for years.

Consider, too, the effect on Americaís southern border if Mexico were to loosen immigration controls on its own southern border ó the one over which Central American refugees are already streaming north in near-record numbers. Even with what U.S. officials say are aggressive interdiction efforts by Mexican authorities, the Border Patrol detained more than 220,000 mainly Guatemalans, Hondurans and Salvadorans crossing from Mexico into the United States in the fiscal year ending last fall, exceeding the number of Mexicans apprehended, which has fallen to a 45-year low. If you think the Border Patrol is swamped now, as Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly insists, imagine if Mexico, which last year sent home more than 140,000 Central Americans, simply stepped aside.


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Get ready suckaahhs!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/23/17 04:42 PM

BOHICA

Trump will likely sell out his working-class white base. Hereís how.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 12:42 AM

Our credibility is in the toilet. Could you spread some lies for us?

FBI refused White House request to knock down recent Trump-Russia stories

The FBI rejected a recent White House request to publicly knock down media reports about communications between Donald Trump's associates and Russians known to US intelligence during the 2016 presidential campaign, multiple US officials briefed on the matter tell CNN.

White House officials had sought the help of the bureau and other agencies investigating the Russia matter to say that the reports were wrong and that there had been no contacts, the officials said. The reports of the contacts were first published by The New York Times and CNN on February 14.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 12:46 AM

This pretty much confirms the Popular Vote Loser is a joke.

Witches From All Around the World Will Cast a Spell on Donald Trump Tomorrow

[Linked Image]

Throughout much of history, the witch has been cast as a hooked nosed and wart faced harridan, whose primary intentions were to exact evil and cause harm. They skulked about in the dark corners of the world, concocting diabolic brews and spells, waiting for the next victim to come into their purview so that they may stike. This was the stuff of fantasies.

Real witches do exist, and they practice various forms of witchcraft. And we now know that many of these real life modern day witches do not fit within the confines of the stereotypes. In fact many witches practice a form of witchcraft that is meant to do good. Todayís witches are humanists, feminists, healers, supports of equality and diversity, and advocates for the environment.

On the evening of February 24th, 2017, witches will become heroes of the resistance, as witches from around the world will come together to produce a spell that is meant to prevent Donald Trump and his merry band of nihilist from exacting anymore of their evil upon our world. This ritural will be repeated during every waning crescent moon.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 12:48 AM

Conway is a deadbeat.

Kellyanne Conway is listed as a D.C. Bar member under her maiden name, Kellyanne E. Fitzpatrick, but is a suspended member for not paying her dues, according to the disciplinary filing.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 12:51 AM

Any thoughts from the chicken hawks? Schwantz? Todd Sparky?

University of Texas System Chancellor William H. McRaven, a retired U.S. Navy four-star admiral, had a strong reaction to the Donald Trumpís tweet calling the media the enemy of the people and he shared it with a crowd at the University of Texas last night.

UT System Chancellor Bill McRaven on Tuesday night said President Trumpís recent description of the media as ďthe enemy of the American peopleĒ must be challenged and ďthis sentiment may be the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime.Ē

He made the comment during the inaugural event of the Communication and Leadership Speaker Series at UTís Belo Center for New Media. McRaven, who has served as chancellor for two years, is also a UT journalism alumnus. During his lecture, McRaven said the country needs journalists now more than ever before and they must continue to hold others accountable.

Prior to becoming chancellor, McRaven was the commander of U.S. Special Operations Command during which time he led a force of 69,000 men and women and was responsible for conducting counter-terrorism operations worldwide. McRaven also is a recognized national authority on U.S. foreign policy and has advised presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama and other U.S. leaders on defense issues. And his book, ďSpec Ops: Case Studies in Special Operations Warfare: Theory and Practice,Ē published in several languages, is considered a fundamental text on special operations strategy.

McRavenís military legacy goes beyond strategy and warfare. As commander of U.S. Special Operations Command, McRaven spearheaded the creation of the Preservation of the Force & Family initiative to ensure the mental, spiritual and physical well-being of those who serve, as well as their families. His wife, Georgeann, has dedicated much of her career to playing a leadership role with military families and wounded warriors.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 01:29 AM

He there everybody!

I was thinking about Rick W., and came back to check the site.

Sorry my thread gave Mike such a dumping ground.

I'm having fun on my Liter Bike these days

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails
'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'


Spoken like a true chicken hawk.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 03:08 PM

Like Obama?
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 04:52 PM

Ok... what is your definition of chicken hawk?
Why is obama a chicken hawk?

I would have thought you would have called obama a chicken for not rescueing Syria. in contrast to mcain who is a classic hawk.

W proved himself a classic chicken hawk... natl guard service for rich boys and talked like a dove in his first election... only to turn into a classic chicken hawk starting two wars with no worries about other kids skin in the game.

Romeny was ??? (He seemed to lean hawkish in his rhetoric)

I have no idea what you call Trump who rants and raves about Not getting into foreign wars. But talks a big hawk game. ... Given his debilitating injury which got him a deferment when it counted... I have him down as a chicken right now.

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 06:12 PM

ah yes, arguing on the internet.... that always works whistle
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 07:46 PM

Served eight years in the Army, left as Captain, but know enough to trust the senior Military. They know the current situation, and the last thing they want is to go to War.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 08:25 PM

We ARE at war now. I saw US troops on the ground in Mosul just last night on the news..

the choices are
withdraw
escalate
muddle along with containment and not educate the country on why that makes sense. it sucks but it makes sense. Obama could never pull that off.

I know what trumps generals would do... Muddle along... try to catch their breath.

Trump... who knows? maybe he declares victory and allows us to muddle along as we are now... but with the great trump victory.. Ok then, ... I don't have to understand it... but that would OK by me.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 08:34 PM

An early spring may sound nice, but it comes with serious consequencesóboth to human health and the environment.

An Alarmingly Early Spring is Sweeping Across the Southern United States

These findings are consistent with the fact that the instrumental record shows that 2016 was the hottest year ever recorded for the globe, and that it was the third record-breaking year in a row. Researchers have noted that 16 of the 17 hottest years recorded occurred since 2000. These new maps show that 2017, at least so far, is shaping up to be another warm one, but also that different regions exhibit variable responses over time.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 09:03 PM

If the popular vote loser can't control the media he'll throw them out.

White House blocks CNN, New York Times from press briefing hours after Trump slams media

The streak of televised briefings did not end because the cable channel finally decided they are no longer breaking news events. (Not every day, anyway.) The streak ended because the White House decided to prohibit cameras from Friday's session. What's more, the White House barred news outlets, such as CNN, the New York Times, Politico and the Los Angeles Times, from entering the room.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 09:11 PM

Alternative Facts

President Donald Trump bragged at his recent Florida rally that after a negotiating session of merely an hour he managed to shave a billion dollars off the price of a new Air Force One.

Facts

The Air Force has no idea what heís talking about. The price had not been determined and the new jets have yet to be designed. So itís unclear what Trump might have been negotiating.

Donald Trump Claims He Saved $1 Billion On Air Force One. Thatís News To The Military.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 09:19 PM

CPAC attendees wave Trump/Russian flags.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/24/17 09:27 PM

Popular vote loser hurts travel industry.

The Travel Press is Reporting the 'Trump Slump,' a Devastating Drop in Tourism to the United States

Though they may differ as to the wisdom of the move, the travel press and most travel experts are of one mind: They are currently drawing attention to an unintended consequence of the Trump-led efforts to stop many Muslims from coming to the U.S., pointing to a sharp drop in foreign tourism to our nation that imperils jobs and touristic income.

Itís known as the ďTrump Slump.Ē And I know of no reputable travel publication to deny it.

Thus, the prestigious Travel Weekly magazine (as close to an ďofficialĒ travel publication as they come) has set the decline in foreign tourism at 6.8%. And the fall-off is not limited to Muslim travelers, but also extends to all incoming foreign tourists. Apparently, an attack on one group of tourists is regarded as an assault on all. [Ö]

According to the Global Business Travel Association, in only a single week following announcement of the ban against certain foreign tourists, the activity of business travel declined by nearly $185 million.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Ok... what is your definition of chicken hawk?
Why is obama a chicken hawk?


My understanding of a chickenhawk in this context is one who promotes war without having ever participated in such conflict.

If that's correct, Obama would've fit that definition in textbook perfection. He promised to pull us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We're still there and virtually every other sh!t hole on the planet. In fact, he's done it in an even more insidious way. Relying highly on uav strikes where there's no dead soldiers for the media to capitalize on. Wouldn't that be pure chickenhawk?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 01:52 AM

"So here is where we're at right now: Trump can dominate the news merely by referencing something that didnít happen in Sweden. Ö Trump dominates the news cycle the way a fart dominates the interior of a Volkswagen Beetle. There is simply no escape from him."
---John Oliver

"The Washington Post has done an analysis of Trumpís first month as president and says that during that time, Trump has made 133 false or misleading statements. Ö Itís only been 34 days. It feels like heís halfway into his second term, doesnít it? This is the first administration where the public is aging faster than the president."
---James Corden

"You played golf six times in one month? Are you the President of the United States or a San Diego dentist?Ē"
---Seth Meyers

Trump wonít be flying down to Mar-A-Lago tonight. Itís his one weekend a month to stay in D.C. and wander the halls in his bathrobe scaring the crap out of the prisoners still in Cheney's dungeon under the White House.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Ok... what is your definition of chicken hawk?
Why is obama a chicken hawk?


My understanding of a chickenhawk in this context is one who promotes war without having ever participated in such conflict.

If that's correct, Obama would've fit that definition in textbook perfection. He promised to pull us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We're still there and virtually every other sh!t hole on the planet. In fact, he's done it in an even more insidious way. Relying highly on uav strikes where there's no dead soldiers for the media to capitalize on. Wouldn't that be pure chickenhawk?


Chickenhawk (politics)
Chickenhawk (also chicken hawk and chicken-hawk) is a political term used in the United States to describe a person who strongly supports war or other military action (i.e., a war hawk), yet who actively avoids or avoided military service when of age.

The term indicates that the person in question is hypocritical for personally dodging a draft or otherwise shirking their duty to their country during a time of armed conflict while advocating that others do so. Generally, the implication is that chickenhawks lack the moral character to participate in war themselves, preferring to ask others to support, fight and perhaps die in an armed conflict.

Origin of the term
In political usage chickenhawk is a compound of chicken (meaning coward) and hawk (meaning someone who advocates war, first used to describe "War Hawks" in the War of 1812). The earliest known print citation of chickenhawk in this sense was in the June 16, 1986 issue of The New Republic. An association between the word chickenhawk and war was popularized several years earlier in the 1983 bestselling book Chickenhawk, a memoir by Robert Mason about his service in the Vietnam War, in which he was a helicopter pilot. Mason used the word as a compound oxymoron to describe both his fear of combat ("chicken") and his attraction to it ("hawk"), a slightly different use of the term which nonetheless might have inspired the current usage.

On an episode of the American television show "Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In" that aired 1/19/1970 (season 3, episode 18), Dan Rowan made the following joke:

"On the Vietnam issue, I have a friend who says he's a chickenhawk. He wants us to fight on to victory, but to do it without him."

Previously, the term war wimp was sometimes used, coined during the Vietnam War by Congressman Andrew Jacobs, a Marine veteran of the Korean War. Jacobs defined a war wimp as "someone who is all too willing to send others to war, but never got 'round to going himself".

In summary, a coward, lacking in moral character.
See Carl
See Schwantz
See Todd
See Sparky
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 02:06 AM

Karl, agree.
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 02:17 AM

[quote=Mark Schneider]We ARE at war now. I saw US troops on the ground in Mosul just last night on the news..


True, but if the Military had their way, we would not be there. They would have fixed the problem the first time.




Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 02:44 AM

Chico Marx has taken control of the White House.

Trump's White House press office just put up a velvet rope in front of the media

On the one hand, the excluded reporters might feel relieved at having a day off from Spicerís usual stream of counterfactual spin. This is, after all, the press secretary who began his tenure on a Chico Marx note, telling reporters not to believe what they saw at the inauguration with their own eyes and instead accept the administrationís grossly exaggerated attendance estimates.

It evokes memories of that most famous White House compiler of an enemies list, Richard Nixon ó probably not the president whose footsteps Trump wants to follow.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
Mexico may play some catchup.

Mexico may strike back. Hereís how.

PRESIDENT TRUMP has a good idea of the power the United States wields over Mexico, and the pain it may inflict ó the construction of a wall Mexico fiercely opposes; taxes that could be slapped on Mexican imports, wreaking havoc on its economy; deportations of undocumented Mexican immigrants living in the United States, who would be thrust back into a country that would struggle to absorb them. Mr. Trump might have a fuzzier idea of the pain Mexico, its people furious and its pride wounded by his taunts and contempt, might inflict on the United States.

Start with those deportations. At least half of Americaís 11 million unauthorized immigrants are Mexican, but many have no documents proving their nationality. For the Trump administration to deport them, it would need cooperation from Mexico, which cannot be forced to accept deportees without certifying that they are Mexicans. As former Mexican foreign minister Jorge G. CastaŮeda has already warned, Mr. Trump can round up hundreds of thousands or millions of migrants, but without Mexicoís cooperation, they could clog U.S. detention centers and immigration courts ó at enormous cost and, conceivably, for years.

Consider, too, the effect on Americaís southern border if Mexico were to loosen immigration controls on its own southern border ó the one over which Central American refugees are already streaming north in near-record numbers. Even with what U.S. officials say are aggressive interdiction efforts by Mexican authorities, the Border Patrol detained more than 220,000 mainly Guatemalans, Hondurans and Salvadorans crossing from Mexico into the United States in the fiscal year ending last fall, exceeding the number of Mexicans apprehended, which has fallen to a 45-year low. If you think the Border Patrol is swamped now, as Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly insists, imagine if Mexico, which last year sent home more than 140,000 Central Americans, simply stepped aside.


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Get ready suckaahhs!


Mexico has informed the Trump administration that it cannot accept non-Mexican nationals whom U.S. authorities arrest along the border and seek to remove from U.S. territory, the nationís internal security chief said Friday. Earlier this week, the Trump administration rolled out a broad immigration crackdown that included a proposal to send non-Mexican detainees apprehended along the U.S.-Mexico border back to Mexico while their immigration cases were pending in the United States. The vast majority of non-Mexican nationals detained along the U.S.-Mexico border are Central Americans. They often travel overland through Mexico to reach the United States.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 06:03 AM

Um... which first time are you talking about?

More the point.... We have civilian control of the military. Lots of factors go into starting and finishing a war.
I remember being PO'd that Bush 1 walked away and did not march into Bagdad. Why did he not listen to the generals??

After a month of trump... I finally understand Bush.... the liberal world order (you can't just go an invade a country) is precious. The further we get from WWII.... the fewer people understand what that cost and why the US role in maintaining the liberal world order is indispensable. Trump's generals know this Anyway... they get to manage all of his bluster and BS while teaching the old guy... some post war history. One of them walked away from Trumps offer.... Thankfully the new guy seems to be a pro and demanded his own staff (no Fox TV hacks please)

As to the wisdom of the generals... Well... it depends on which general... the one who told bush II.... it would take 300 K troops and got retired?... or the generals who agreed that they could take over a country with a 100k and F'd it up for decades?

How about the current generals? the jury is still out.
Lets see what the bottom line was on the Yemen catastrophe... Did the generals green light an opp to give Trump a macho win? Did the generals just have a hi risk/reward tolerance than Obama and his team would have. Does the fubar cost the US blood and treasure down the road for the big fail of an operation that it seems to have been? Is the cost of the opp just the loss of life and equipment or prestige and power in the region? (carter's failed rescue opp made us look weak... reagans walk away from lebanon military barack bombing made us look weak)

Clearly a mixed bag... Just because they have lots of stars... does not make them all knowing. The most famous general out of iraq is on probation because he wanted a block buster biography from his mistress so he could pretend to be Eisenhower or Grant.

My take home... we pay a fortune for the military that we have... we need them to be forward leaning...We don't need snowflakes... so we need to use them to further US interest when hard power is needed. we also need a civilian check on the generals... and as the current NSC guy notes... we need generals to tell politicians where to go when needed (viet nam).
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/25/17 11:51 PM

True Mark, we will see. Trust in Mad Dog, and without a community organizer in charge, that fired all the generals that did not agree with him, we should be OK.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 04:19 PM

The popular vote loser has been in office for 36 days. Just think what he can do if he lasts for a year. It boggles the imagination.

[Linked Image]

First 100 Lies:

White House press secretary Sean Spicer falsely claimed the crowd on the National Mall was ďlargest audience to ever witness an inauguration.Ē (Jan. 21)

Trump falsely claimed that the crowd for his swearing-in stretched down the National Mall to the Washington Monument and totaled more than 1 million people. (Jan. 21)

As Trump fondly recalled his Inauguration Day, he said it stopped raining ďimmediatelyĒ when he began his speech. A light rain continued to fall throughout the address. (Jan. 21)

During his speech at CIA headquarters, Trump claimed the media made up his feud with the agency. In fact, he started it by comparing the intelligence community to ďNazi Germany.Ē (Jan. 21)

During his speech at CIA headquarters, Trump repeated the claim that he ďdidnít want to go into Iraq.Ē He told Howard Stern in 2002 that he supported the Iraq War. (Jan. 21)

During his speech at CIA headquarters, Trump said he had the ďall-time record in the history of Time Magazine. Ö Iíve been on it for 15 times this year.Ē Trump had been featured on the magazine a total of 11 times. (Jan. 21)

Trump claimed that his inauguration drew 11 million more viewers than Barack Obamaís in 2013. It didnít, and viewership for Obamaís first inauguration, in 2009, was even higher. (Jan. 22)

Spicer said during his first press briefing that there has been a ďdramatic expansion of the federal workforce in recent years.Ē This is false. (Jan. 23)

While pushing back against the notion of a rift between the CIA and Trump, Spicer claimed the president had received a ďfive-minute standing ovationĒ at the agencyís headquarters. He did not. The attendees were also never asked to sit down. (Jan. 23)

Spicer claimed that ďtens of millions of peopleĒ watched the inauguration online. In fact, about 4.6 million did. (Jan. 23)

Trump told CBN News that 84 percent Cuban-Americans voted for him. Itís not clear where Trump got that number. According to the Pew Research Center, 54 percent of Cuban-Americans in Florida voted for him. (Jan. 23)

While meeting with congressional leaders, Trump repeated a debunked claim that he only lost the national popular vote because of widespread voter fraud. (Jan. 24)

In remarks with business leaders at the White House, Trump said, ďIím a very big person when it comes to the environment. I have received awards on the environment.Ē There is no evidence that Trump has received such awards. (Jan. 24)

In signing an executive memo ordering the construction of the Keystone pipeline, Trump said the project would create 28,000 construction jobs. According to The Washington Post Fact Checker, the pipeline would create an estimated 16,000 jobs, most of which are not construction jobs. (Jan. 25)

Spicer said in a press briefing that Trump received more electoral votes than any Republican since Ronald Reagan. George H.W. Bush won 426 electoral votes in 1988, more than Trumpís 304. (Jan. 24)

In remarks he gave at the Homeland Security Department, Trump said Immigration and Customs Enforcement and border patrol agents ďunanimously endorsed me for president.Ē Thatís not true. (Jan. 25)

Spicer said during a press briefing that a draft executive order on CIA prisons was not a ďWhite House document.Ē Citing three administration officials, The New York Times reported that the White House had circulated the draft order among national security staff members. (Jan. 25)

In an interview with ABC, Trump again claimed he ďhad the biggest audience in the history of inaugural speeches.Ē False. (Jan. 25)

Trump claimed during an interview with ABC that the applause he received at CIA headquarters ďwas the biggest standing ovation since Peyton Manning had won the Super Bowl.Ē It wasnít even a standing ovation. (Jan. 25)

In an interview with ABC, Trump attacked the Affordable Care Act and said there are ďmillions of people that now arenít insured anymore.Ē Twenty million people have gained health coverage because of the law so far. The estimated 2 million people who did not qualify under the law received waivers that kept the plans going until the end of 2017. (Jan. 25)

At the GOP retreat in Philadelphia, Trump claimed he and the president of Mexico ďagreedĒ to cancel their scheduled meeting. Enrique PeŮa Nieto said he had decided to cancel it. (Jan. 26)

At the GOP retreat in Philadelphia, Trump said the national homicide rate was ďhorribly increasing.Ē It is down significantly. (Jan. 26)

On Twitter, Trump repeated his false claim that 3 million votes were illegal during the election. (Jan. 27)

In an interview on ďGood Morning America,Ē Trump counselor Kellyanne Conway said Tiffany Trump, the presidentís daughter, had told her she was ďnot registered to vote in two states.Ē A local election official confirmed to NBC News twice that the younger Trump indeed was. (Jan. 27)

Trump said he predicted the so-called ďBrexitĒ when he was in Scotland the day before the vote. He was actually there the day after the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. (Jan. 27)

Trump claimed The New York Times lost subscribers ďbecause their readers even like me.Ē The Times experienced a sharp uptick in subscribers after Election Day. (Jan. 27)

Trump claimed two people were fatally shot in Chicago during Obamaís last speech as president. That didnít happen. (Jan. 27)

Trump claimed that under previous administrations, ďif you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible.Ē In fact, almost as many Christian refugees were admitted to the U.S. as Muslim refugees in fiscal year 2016. (Jan. 27)

Trump defended the swiftness of his immigration order on the grounds that terrorists would have rushed into the country if he had given the world a weekís notice. Even if terrorists wanted to infiltrate the refugee program or the visa program, they would have had to wait months or even years while being vetted to get into the country. (Jan. 30)

The White House maintained that Trumpís immigration order did not apply to green card holders and that was ďthe guidance from the beginning.Ē Initially, the White House said the order did include green card holders. (Jan. 30)

Trump said his immigration order was ďsimilar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months.Ē Obamaís policy slowed resettlement of refugees from Iraq, but did not keep them from entering the country. Moreover, it flagged the seven countries included in Trumpís order as places the U.S. considered dangerous to visit. (Jan. 30)

Spicer said that ďby and large,Ē Trump has been ďpraisedĒ for his statement commemorating the Holocaust. Every major Jewish organization, including the Republican Jewish Coalition, criticized it for omitting any specific references to the Jewish people or anti-Semitism. (Jan. 30)

A Trump administration official called the implementation of Trumpís travel ban a ďmassive success story.Ē Not true &#8213; young children, elderly people and U.S. green card holders were detained for hours. Some were deported upon landing in the U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) even criticized the rollout as ďconfusing.Ē (Jan. 30)

Spicer equated White House adviser Steve Bannonís appointment to the National Security Council Principals Committee with Obama adviser David Axelrod attending meetings pertaining to foreign policy. Axelrod, however, never sat on the Principals Committee. (Jan. 30)

Spicer said people would have ďfloodedĒ into the country with advance notice of Trumpís immigration order. Not true. (Jan. 30)

Spicer insisted that only 109 travelers were detained because of Trumpís immigration order. More than 1,000 legal permanent residents had to get waivers before entering the U.S. An estimated 90,000 people in total were affected by the ban. (Jan. 30)

Trump tweeted the false claim that ďonly 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning.Ē (Jan. 30)

Trump took credit for cutting $600 million from the F-35 program. But Lockheed Martin already had planned for the cost reductions for the next generation fighter plane. (Jan. 31)

Trump accused China of manipulating its currency by playing ďthe money market. They play the devaluation market, and we sit there like a bunch of dummies.Ē According to The Washington Post, the United States is no longer being hurt by Chinaís currency manipulation, and China is no longer devaluing its currency. (Jan. 31)

In defending the GOPís blockade of Merrick Garland, Obamaís nominee to the Supreme Court, Spicer said no president had ever nominated a justice ďso lateĒ in his term. It previously happened three times. (Jan. 31)

Spicer repeatedly insisted during a press conference that Trumpís executive order on immigration was ďnot a ban.Ē During a Q&A event the night before, however, Spicer himself referred to the order as a ďban.Ē So did the president. (Jan. 31)

White House officials denied reports that Trump told PeŮa Nieto that U.S. forces would handle the ďbad hombres down thereĒ if the Mexican authorities donít. It confirmed the conversation the next day, maintaining the remark was meant to be ďlighthearted.Ē (Jan. 31)

Trump claimed that Delta, protesters and the tears of Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) were to blame for the problems over his travel ban. In fact, his administration was widely considered to blame for problems associated with its rollout. (Jan. 31)

Trump said the Obama administration ďagreed to take thousands of illegal immigrants from Australia.Ē The deal actually involved 1,250 refugees. (Feb. 1)

Trump said the U.S. ďhas the most generous immigration system in the world.Ē Not really. (Feb. 2)

Trump said the U.S. was giving Iran $150 billion for ďnothingĒ under the Iranian nuclear deal. The money was already Iranís to begin with, and the deal blocks Iran from building a nuclear bomb. (Feb. 2)

Spicer called a U.S. raid in Yemen ďvery, very well thought out and executed effortĒ and described it as a ďsuccessful operation by all standards.Ē U.S. military officials told Reuters the operation was approved ďwithout sufficient intelligence, ground support, or adequate backup preparations.Ē (Feb. 2)

Spicer said that Iran had attacked a U.S. naval vessel, as part of his argument defending the administrationís bellicose announcement that Iran is ďon notice.Ē In fact, a suspected Houthi rebel ship attacked a Saudi vessel. (Feb. 2)

In his meeting with union leaders at the White House, Trump claimed he won union households. He actually only won white union households. (Feb. 2)

Conway cited the ďBowling Green massacreĒ to defend Trumpís travel ban. It never happened. (Feb. 3)

Conway said citing the nonexistent ďBowling Green massacreĒ to defend Trumpís immigration order was an accidental ďslip.Ē But she had mentioned it twice prior to that interview. (Feb. 3)

Trump approvingly shared a story on his official Facebook page which claimed that Kuwait issued a visa ban for five Muslim-majority countries. Kuwait issued a statement categorically denying it. (Feb. 3)

Trump claimed people are ďpouring inĒ after his immigration order was temporarily suspended. Travelers and refugees cannot simply rush into the U.S. without extensive and lengthy vetting. (Feb. 5)

After a judge halted his immigration ban, Trump claimed that ďanyone, even with bad intentions, can now come into the U.S.Ē Not true. (Feb. 5)

Spicer said nationwide protests of Trump are not like protests the tea party held, and called them ďa very paid AstroTurf-type movement.Ē Although Democrats have capitalized on the backlash against Trump by organizing, the massive rallies across dozens of cities across the country &#8213; which in some cases have been spontaneous &#8213; suggests they are part of an organic phenomenon. (Feb. 6)

During an interview with Fox News before the Super Bowl, Trump repeated his debunked claim of widespread voter fraud during the presidential election. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Republican and Democratic state officials have said so, as have Trumpís own campaign attorneys. (Feb. 6)

During an interview with Fox News before the Super Bowl, Trump repeated his false claim that he has ďbeen against the war in Iraq from the beginning.Ē (Feb. 6)

Conway said she would not appear on CNNís ďState of the UnionĒ because of ďfamilyĒ reasons. CNN, however, said the White House offered Conway as an alternative to Vice President Mike Pence and that the network had ďpassedĒ because of concerns about her ďcredibility.Ē (Feb. 6)

Spicer claimed CNN ďretractedĒ its explanation of why it declined to take Conway for a Sunday show appearance. CNN said it never did so. (Feb. 6)

Trump cited attacks in Boston, Paris, Orlando, Florida, and Nice, France, as examples of terrorism the media has not covered adequately. ďIn many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesnít want to report it,Ē he said at CENTCOM. Those attacks garnered wall-to-wall television coverage, as well as thousands of news articles in print and online. (Feb. 6)

The White House released a more expansive list of terrorist attacks it believed ďdid not receive adequate attention from Western media sources.Ē Again, the list includes attacks that were widely covered by the media. (Feb. 6)

Trump said sanctuary cities ďbreed crime.Ē FBI data indicates that crime in sanctuary cities is generally lower than in nonsanctuary cities. (Feb. 6)

Trump claimed The New York Times was ďforced to apologize to its subscribers for the poor reporting it did on my election win.Ē The paper has not issued such an apology. (Feb. 6)

Trump claimed the murder rate is the highest itís been in 47 years. The murder rate rose 10.8 percent across the United States in 2015, but itís far lower than it was 30 to 40 years ago. (Feb. 7)

Spicer explained that the delay in repealing Obamacare was a result of the White House wanting to work with Congress. Unlike during the Obama administration, he asserted, the legislature &#8213; not the White House &#8213; was taking the lead on health care. Various congressional committees worked on drafting multiple versions of the bill that would become the Affordable Care Act &#8213; a lengthy process that took over a year. (Feb. 7)

Trump accused Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) of misrepresenting ďwhat Judge Neil Gorsuch told himĒ in response to the presidentís attacks against the judiciary. Gorsuch called Trumpís tweets attacking federal judges ďdemoralizing.Ē A spokesman for Gorsuch confirmed the judgeís remarks. (Feb. 9)

Trump has repeatedly said he doesnít watch CNN. But he had to in order to see and offer and opinion on the networkís interview with Blumenthal. (Feb. 9)

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has said that phone calls he made to Russia prior to Trumpís inauguration were not related to sanctions. According to a Washington Post report, however, Flynn held private discussions with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, before Trump took office, suggesting that sanctions against Moscow would be eased by the incoming administration. (Feb. 9)

Trump took credit for Fordís decision not to open an auto factory in Mexico and instead expand its Michigan plant. The company said Trump was not responsible for its decision. (Feb. 9)

Trump told a room full of politicians that ďthousandsĒ of ďillegalĒ voters had been driven into New Hampshire to cast ballots. There is no evidence of such a claim. (Feb. 11)

During an interview with ABCís ďThis Week,Ē White House senior policy aide Stephen Miller falsely said the ďissue of busing voters into New Hampshire is widely known by anyone whoís worked in New Hampshire politics.Ē Again, not true. (Feb. 11)

Miller cited the ďastonishingĒ statistic that 14 percent of noncitizens are registered to vote. The study the stat is based on has been highly contested. (Feb. 11)

Trump said Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) was ďcut offĒ on CNN for ďusing the term fake news the describe the network.Ē The senator was joking and he was not cut off. (Feb. 12)

Trump accused the media of refusing to report on ďbig crowds of enthusiastic supporters lining the roadĒ in Florida. There were a few supporters, but they were vastly outnumbered by hundreds of protesters. (Feb. 12)

White House officials told reporters that Flynn decided on his own to resign. However, Spicer said during a press briefing that the president asked Flynn to resign. (Feb. 13)

Trump denied in a January interview that he or anyone on his campaign had any contact with Russia prior to the election. However, The New York Times and CNN both reported that Trump campaign officials and associates ďhad repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officialsĒ before Nov. 8. (Feb. 15)

Spicer denied in a daily briefing that anyone on the Trump campaign had had any contact with Russian officials. (Feb. 15)

Trump complained he ďinherited a messĒ upon being elected to office. The stock market is experiencing record highs, the economy is stable and growing, and unemployment is low. (Feb. 16)

Trump disputed the notion that his administration is experiencing turmoil, telling reporters it is working like a ďfine-tuned machine.Ē His poorly executed travel ban has been suspended by the courts, a Cabinet nominee was forced to withdraw his nomination, and Trumpís national security adviser resigned after less than four weeks on the job. (Feb. 16)

Trump said his 306 Electoral College votes was the biggest electoral votes victory since Ronald Reagan. Obama got 332 votes in 2012. (Feb. 16)

Trump said his first weeks in office ďrepresented an unprecedented month of action.Ē Obama accomplished much more during his first weeks in office. (Feb. 16)

Defending himself from charges of hypocrisy on the matter of leaks &#8213; which he frequently celebrated when they pertained to his campaign opposition but now denounces &#8213; Trump said that WikiLeaks does not publicize ďclassified information.Ē It does, often anonymously. (Feb. 16)

Trump repeated his claim that Hillary Clinton gave 20 percent of American uranium to the Russians in a deal during her tenure as secretary of state. Not true. (Feb. 16)

Trump said drugs are ďbecoming cheaper than a candy bar.Ē They are not. (Feb. 16)

Trump said his administration had a ďvery smooth rollout of the travel ban.Ē His immigration caused chaos at the nationís airports and has been suspended by the courts. (Feb. 16)

Trump said the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is in ďchaosĒ and ďturmoil.Ē It is not. (Feb. 16)

Flynn lied to FBI investigators in a Jan. 24 interview about whether he discussed sanctions with Russian officials prior to Trumpís inauguration, according to The Washington Post. (Feb. 16)

Trump falsely suggested at a Florida rally that Sweden had suffered a terror attack the night before his speech. It had not, and Trump was likely referring to a Fox News segment on crime in Sweden. (Feb. 18)

During his Florida rally, Trump repeated his false claim that the United States has already let in thousands of people who ďthere was no way to vet.Ē Refugees undergo the most rigorous vetting process of any immigrants admitted to the United States, often waiting upwards of two years to be cleared for entry. (Feb. 18)

White House chief of staff Reince Priebus said in a ďFox News SundayĒ interview that Trump ďhas accomplished more in the first 30 days than people can remember.Ē Obama accomplished much more during his first weeks in office. (Feb. 19)

Trump said during his campaign that he would only play golf with heads of state and business leaders, not friends and celebrities like Obama did. Trump has golfed with world leaders like Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. Most recently, however, he hit the links with golf pro Rory McIlroy, International Sports Managementís Nick Mullen and his friend Rich Levine. (Feb. 19)

A White House spokesperson told reporters that Trump only played a ďcoupleĒ of holes at his golf resort in Florida. A day later, as reports came out saying the president had played 18 holes with Mcllroy, the White House admitted he played ďlonger.Ē (Feb. 19)

Trump said the media is ďtrying to say large scale immigration in Sweden is working out just beautifully. NOT!Ē Swedenís crime rate has fallen in recent years, and experts there do not think its immigration policies are linked to crime. (Feb. 20)

Spicer said Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) asked for a meeting with Trump at the White House. John Weaver, a former campaign aide of the governor, said the president asked for the meeting. (Feb. 21)

Vice President Mike Pence called Obamacare a ďjob killer.Ē Overall, job growth has been steady since it was signed into law. And the number of unwilling part-time jobs has also gone down, contrary to GOP claims. (Feb. 22)

Trump claimed that he negotiated $1 billion in savings to develop two new Boeing Co. jets to serve as the next Air Force One. The Air Force canít account for that number. (Feb. 22)

During a meeting with the nationís CEOs at the White House, Trump claimed his new economic adviser Gary Cohn ďpaid $200 million in taxĒ to take a job at the White House. Cohn didnít have to pay taxes, he had to sell more than $200 million of Goldman Sachs stock. (Feb. 23)

Trump claimed there were ďsix blocksĒ worth of people waiting to get into the Conservative Political Action Conference to see him. People filled only three overflow rooms. (Feb. 24)

At CPAC, Trump said that Obamacare covers ďvery few people.Ē Nearly 20 million people have gotten health insurance under the law. (Feb. 24)

At CPAC, Trump said companies like Intel were making business investments in the United States because of his election. The company planned their new investments before the election. (Feb. 24)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 04:27 PM

Does this profile fit anyone you know?

As tyrants take control of democracies, they typically do the following seven things.

1. They exaggerate their mandate to govern, claiming, for example, that they won an election by a ďlandslideĒ even after losing the popular vote. They criticize any finding that they or co-conspirators stole the election. And they repeatedly claim ďmassive voter fraudĒ in the absence of any evidence, in order to have an excuse to restrict voting by opponents in subsequent elections.

2. They turn the public against journalists or media outlets that criticize them, calling them ďdeceitfulĒ and ďscum,Ē and telling the public that the press is a ďpublic enemy.Ē They hold few, if any, press conferences and prefer to communicate with the public directly through mass rallies and unfiltered statements (or what we might now call ďtweetsĒ).

3. They repeatedly lie to the public, even when confronted with the facts. Repeated enough, these lies cause some of the public to doubt the truth and believe fictions that support the tyrantsí goals.

4. They blame economic stresses on immigrants or racial or religious minorities and foment public bias or even violence against them. They threaten mass deportations, ďregistriesĒ of religious minorities and the banning of refugees.

5. They attack the motives of anyone who opposes them, including judges. They attribute acts of domestic violence to ďenemies withinĒ and use such events as excuses to beef up internal security and limit civil liberties.

6. They appoint family members to high positions of authority. They appoint their own personal security force rather than a security detail accountable to the public. And they put generals into top civilian posts.

7. They keep their personal finances secret and draw no distinction between personal property and public property, profiteering from their public office.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 04:27 PM

hmm... obama did indeed fire a general.... In fact he fired the general he inherited and who was stone cold crazy and a future russian asset. in fact... Trump fired the same guy.

Obama fired Mcrystal for going on the record.... that is ON THE RECORD for bashing obama choices. Even the military guys said that obama had to fire him... because of the rank insubordination.

So... we are now 4 - 5 years out in Afhgan... who was right?. Mcrystal... escalate... Obama... mititgate the fubar?

Obama was sorry that he had to fire McCrytsal... even tho he disagreed with McCrystals judgement. In the end, McCrystal was a great general... and a lousy politician..... aka the peter principle... you rise to your level of incompetence.

The strength and weakness of the US military is the chain of command... A 4 star tells a 3 star what he believes. They manage this by moving people through the system. Equally important is civilian control of the military. The generals serve the elected reps.

I am not so keen on having a general in the civilian role of Defense sec. 4 stars tell 3 stars how high to jump. That is why they had a rule against a general walking over. Trump is so off the charts... a smart general was a lifesaver.

obviously you hate obama...pray tell.. what are the skills you need to be commander in chief and which background serves you better in the US system of three co equal branches.

community organizer/law professor/state legislature/senator versus
real estate developer/TV reality star/Branding wiz versus
Baseball team owner/Texas governor/3rd generation scion of political family.

Make your case for commander in chief ... (then I will make mine)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 05:05 PM

**** of the walk.

Israelis Will Soon Be Mass Producing AK-47s for the U.S. Market

The symbolism of a Kalashnikov on U.S. soil isnít lost on CAA either. ďFor the intelligent [weapons] consumer, what do they want? They want an M-16, or [its close cousin] the AR-15, they want a shotgun, some want an [Israeli] Uzi, some get a Beretta [Italian]óand now you can buy a Russian Kalashnikov,Ē Oz observed, ticking off the names of the gun worldís strongest brands.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
hmm... obama did indeed fire a general.... In fact he fired the general he inherited and who was stone cold crazy and a future russian asset. in fact... Trump fired the same guy.


Technically not a firing but President Obama got rid of Petraeus (known as Betrayus by his troops).

On June 30, 2011, Petraeus was unanimously confirmed as the Director of the CIA by the U.S. Senate 94Ė0. Petraeus relinquished command of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan on July 18, 2011, and retired from the U.S. Army on August 31, 2011. On November 9, 2012, General Petraeus resigned from his position as Director of the CIA, citing his extramarital affair, which was reportedly discovered in the course of an FBI investigation. In January 2015, officials reported the FBI and Justice Department prosecutors had recommended bringing felony charges against Petraeus for allegedly providing classified information to his biographer, Paula Broadwell (with whom he was having an affair), while serving as Director of the CIA. Eventually, Petraeus pled guilty to one misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified information.

It's hard to estimate who gave away more classified material, Petraeus or Flynn.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 05:33 PM

Queue up the circus music.

President Trump wants to put on a show. Governing matters less.

ďIf youíre ever confused about Trumpís motives, go to showman first.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 07:10 PM

And the circus music keeps blaring.



Trumpís Cabinet has to work as a cleanup crew

This public and often yawning gulf between Trump and his agency heads has added to the sense of chaos and turmoil emanating from the White House, sending his secretaries scrambling to interpret their bossís exact positions and leaving other nations confused as to who, exactly, speaks on behalf of the administration.
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 10:50 PM

Can't beat my 12 gauge pump Mossberg with 18 in barrel.
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/26/17 10:59 PM

Mark:
George Washington
Abe Lincoln
Ronald Reagan
Did not hate Obama, just thought he was not up to the job.

Back to the Beach.

(Mikey, slight overcast, but a beautiful day. You should be out or on the water)



Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/27/17 04:27 AM

Whatís the matter with Kansas?

That phrase has been around a while, thanks to Thomas Frankís book that explored why the state is so conservative. Now, however, the question applies in a more direct sense, as in: why is the stateís budget in the crapper, and why is its economy one of the worst performing in the country, both in terms of jobs and overall growth? (Kansasís economy actually contracted in the last two quarters of 2016ówhen the state fell, in technical terms, into recession.)

The answer is simple: conservative Republicans got their way. Now the Jayhawk is coming home to roost.

Meanwhile in Ninny's favorite state...

Golden State voters elected a Democratic governor, Jerry Brown, and elected huge Democratic majorities. The stateís budget was in shambles when Brown took over from Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger, with a deficit of $25 billion in fiscal year 2011-12.

What did Democrats do?

They raised taxes on the wealthiest households, and their plan brought the budget into balance, paid down huge debts from past deficits, and has even run surpluses the last couple of years. At the same time, Californiaís economic growth rate has been very strong. In the most recent year for which we have data, it was more than double the average for the country, and was in fact tied for the highest rate with Oregonóanother state with a Democratic governor and Democratic majorities in both houses of the state legislature. California may have to make some adjustments going forward, but overall the liberal tax and budget policies implemented a few years ago have been a real success.


Democrats need to show the American people that governing is about results, about delivering for them. And liberal policies do that a hell of a lot better than conservative ones.

Todd? Todd?? Yoooooohooooooooooooo, Todd!!
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/27/17 07:42 AM

ah... the issue is not if you hated obama.... Or thought he failed at the job.

The question was... Given the backgrounds of the last couple of presidents... and your stance that generals are great. What track record gave you the best chance to be commander in chief... ie a civilian politician in control of the military and why?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/27/17 04:32 PM

I consider the media to be indispensable to democracy. We need an independent media to hold people like me to account. Power can be very addictive, and it can be corrosive.
---President George W. Bush
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/27/17 05:07 PM

Popular vote loser voters having second thoughts? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

These Iowans voted for Trump. Many of them are already disappointed.

Tom Godat, a union electrician who has always voted for Democrats, cast his ballot for Donald Trump last year as ďthe lesser of two evilsĒ compared to Hillary Clinton. Heís already a little embarrassed about it. ďIt seems almost like a dictatorship at times. Heís got a lot of controversial stuff going on and rather than thinking it through, Iím afraid that heís jumping into the frying pan with both feet.Ē
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/27/17 08:34 PM

Mark, I am not a military strategist. Last job on active duty was Battalion S-2/S-3, a long time ago. However, the President is the Commander in Chief. He must have a strong Team of Military and Civilian Advisors and be able to listen to them, and make the final decision. Think Washington, Lincoln, Truman and Reagan.

Back to the Beach, only a couple more days before returning to the snow.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/27/17 09:36 PM

Caleb, I am also not a military strategist... just a voter.

You seem to elevate Reagan as a great commander in chief. Why?

What attributes or results inform that opinion. Mind you.... this is not really military strategy as much as foreign policy!

I get flagged when you highlight words like... "must listen to the generals" usually that means... do what the current general in charge is spinning or you are not respecting the military.
I have a big problem with this.

Two points... we have lots of generals with a complete spectrum of views. (See GWB era... I need 300k.... versus... I need 100 k in troops) Cherry picking your general is FINE (see Lincoln) so long as you, as president, completely own the decision. (Did Bush own this FUBAR in Irag or Afgan?)

The buck stops with the president and you will be second guessed for eternity. You better grow a pair when you take hard choices that don't fit American folk lore. We venerate winning generals and neuter the loosers. We celebrate our colonization period where we could kick some a$$. (Remember. the trope we were fed as kids... America never loses a war... America never starts a war... but will damn well finish it) The president has to own the choice and so he damn better be ready. the modern world does not yield white flags and surrender ceremonies very often. (See Dayton but also see Korea)!

Trump causes a lot of upset when he opines that American soldiers don't win wars anymore. Really?... do you think the volunteer force and the generals he just appointed have f'd it up over the last 60 years since Truman?

given the number of generals now in charge and trumps record, speech and behavior... Its a good time to take a careful look at your assumptions!
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/28/17 01:09 AM

Today's Spirit of America rallies draw massive support for the popular vote loser.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
There would have been more but they were busy knocking grave stones over.

[Linked Image]
Why do they all look so depressed?
[Linked Image]
The guy on the left was promised donuts.

[Linked Image]
Needed a wide angle lens to fit them all in.

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5sXSzEXMAAa-6b.jpg[/img]
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5sXUjCXEAcAjCR.jpg[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5sa5gmXMAEwNAk.jpg[/img]
Maybe call it the man-on-a-million-corners rally?

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5sa8VHXEAAhjSd.jpg[/img]
Get your Trump University graduation picture right here!

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5r5N_wWYAAEUbB.jpg[/img]
Break time! I hope that fat guy didn't Hoover all the donuts.




Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/28/17 02:39 PM

Fake news. Right Schwantz?

Prison for 2 who threatened violence at black childís party

Douglasville judge says Confederate flag case was a hate crime

To make their point about their right to fly the battle flag and what they thought of African-Americans, they threatened black motorists with epithets and a gun, heckled black customers at a Paulding County Wal-Mart with the same epithet, and repeated their actions at a convenience store. The store manager called 911.

Then they happened upon the outdoor birthday party for an 8-year-old African-American child at his grandmotherís house in Douglasville. The confrontation that ensued, and its aftermath, culminated Monday with lengthy prison sentences for Torres and Norton.

[...]
Assistant District Attorney David Emadi detailed how the group had gone on a drunken, two-county spree July 24 and July 25. Emadi said that by the time the group reached the birthday party, they pulled a black, tactical pump shotgun out of one of the trucks. The shotgun matched one found in Torresí truck later, Emadi said.

Emadi said Torres and two others passed the gun around, holding it as they and the others taunted not only the adults but the children.

ďĎWeíre going to kill some (racial epithet)s today,íĒ Emadi said, quoting witnesses present during the standoff. ďWeíll blow the head off the little bastards. Weíll kill all the little (racial epithet)s.Ē

Someone passed ammunition to Torres and he leveled the shotgun at the group and yelled, ďIíll kill all of you (racial epithet)s,Ē Emadi said.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 02/28/17 03:15 PM

What happens when gun manufacturers project lower revenues? Trot out Krazy Wayne of course.

The NRAís new gun-sales pitch: America is a war zone and the ďviolent leftĒ is coming for you

Perhaps LaPierre is really pissing in his pants, afraid of leftist protesters. But the gun-safety advocates I spoke with took a more cynical view, arguing that LaPierreís be-afraid-buy-guns speech is better understood as a marketing move.

The number of Americans who own guns has been declining for years, creating a serious marketing problem for the gun industry. With fewer owners out there, the gun industry has to convince the people who do own then to buy more and ideally build up a massive and expensive stockpile of weaponry.

Will Chumlee buy more pieces? If he can unload his Beck gold coins...
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/01/17 07:57 PM

ďSo, I start to think to myself: Oh, I think this guy is trying to let people know Iím a Jew. And I think to myself, ĎDoesnít my face do that?íĒ recalled Stewart at the benefit. ďHonestly! Where have you seen this face other than a poster for Yentl? In what world are people like, ĎStewart? Thatís a Scottish name! But thereís something about that fella that looks a little schmear-y.í It would be funny if it wasnít so toxically fuckiní crude and horrible.Ē

Revisiting Donald Trumpís Anti-Semitic Attacks Against Jon Stewart

Steven Goldstein, the executive director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect, said it best: ďTrump quacks, walks, and talks like an anti-Semite. That makes him an anti-Semite.Ē
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/01/17 09:19 PM

You Canít Spell America Without ME: The Really Tremendous Inside Story of My Fantastic First Year as President Donald J. Trump

Alec Baldwin and Kurt Andersen are writing a Trump book together. Sad.

Coming in November.
Posted By: phill

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/01/17 09:52 PM

Just wondering how many people are killed in the US by guns kept in homes. Do they keep these kinds of figures for say the last 12 months?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by phill
Just wondering how many people are killed in the US by guns kept in homes. Do they keep these kinds of figures for say the last 12 months?


Posted Feb. 28.

As of ďpress time,Ē 20 people had accidentally shot themselves during the week beginning February 5. Thatís a little on the high end, but not very far out of keeping with routine. The weekís list also included six minors accidentally shot (and three shootings by kids under age six, not including those who accidentally shot themselves), five accidental gun fatalities, five people who accidentally fired guns they were cleaning, and five people who accidentally fired guns while they were out and about with the rest of us, shopping, dining, staying at hotels, etc. And, as usual, there were multiple incidents of members of the military and law enforcement officers involved in GunFAIL incidents of various kinds, hunting accidents, and ďhome invasion shootings,Ē where friendly gun enthusiasts (accidentally) include their neighbors in their activities, sending discharged bullets into their homes and properties without waiting for an invitation.

Speaking of accidentally firing into a neighboring property, and of accidentally firing your guns while youíre out shopping with the rest of us, Florida has got us covered on both counts. On February 10, in Seminole, a 19-year-old girl was shot in the back while getting a pedicure at Daraís Nail Salon and Day Spa. I may have the wrong picture in my head, but it seems like getting shot in the back during a pedicure isnít all that easy. And as it happens, this one had to be pulled off by accidentally firing a .45 through the wall of the gun shop next door. Be aware of who your neighbors are, I guess! Though the owners of the nail salon here could certainly be forgiven for believing the NRAís propaganda, telling them that the gun shop next door was the safest neighbor anyone could have. If theyíre not GunFAIL readers, that is.

The next day, on the opposite coast, a friendly Responsible Gun OwnerTM and concealed carry permit holder accidentally dropped his little friend in the Dunkiní Donuts in Coconut Creek. The floor of the donut shop, which is not licensed to carry firearms irresponsibly fired the weapon, striking a 55-year-old woman, more likely there for donut holes than bullet holes. But whatís a patriotic citizen to do? The concealed carry permit holder was merely exercising his right to keep drop and bear accidentally discharge arms. And at least he did what his concealed carry permit required him to do in such a situation. That is, carry his gun out of the establishment, and conceal himself elsewhere, before the police arrived.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 02:52 AM

Alternative Facts
At his Jan. 10 Judiciary Committee confirmation hearing, Sessions was asked by Sen. Al Franken, a Minnesota Democrat, what he would do if he learned of any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of the 2016 campaign.

ďIím not aware of any of those activities,Ē he responded. He added: ďI have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians.Ē

Facts
Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) spoke twice last year with Russiaís ambassador to the United States, Justice Department officials said, encounters he did not disclose when asked about possible contacts between members of President Trumpís campaign and representatives of Moscow during Sessionsís confirmation hearing to become attorney general.

One of the meetings was a private conversation between Sessions and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak that took place in September in the senatorís office, at the height of what U.S. intelligence officials say was a Russian cyber campaign to upend the U.S. presidential race.

The previously undisclosed discussions could fuel new congressional calls for the appointment of a special counsel to investigate Russiaís alleged role in the 2016 presidential election. As attorney general, Sessions oversees the Justice Department and the FBI, which have been leading investigations into Russian meddling and any links to Trumpís associates. He has so far resisted calls to recuse himself.

Sessions met with Russian envoy twice last year, encounters he later did not disclose

Well bless his heart.


Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by phill
Just wondering how many people are killed in the US by guns kept in homes. Do they keep these kinds of figures for say the last 12 months?


I wonder how many people will die if they decide to rescind the right to own fire arms here.
Posted By: phill

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 09:35 AM

Karl, Good question.
Can you point out some that were saved?
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by phill
Karl, Good question.
Can you point out some that were saved?


Many.. for instance

https://bearingarms.com/category/guns-saving-lives/

I like this one

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journa...ng-to-debate-having-a-gun-saved-my-life/

Quote
She then emphasized the importance of bearing arms:

Criminals will always have guns, this is not about them. Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms. Humans have a right to defend themselves. If we didnít have the Second Amendment, we would create it.

ÖGet a gun, get legal, be responsible, trust yourself. Donít trust yourself? Then donít carry. But for Godís sake then, shut the f**k up about it, because thatís where your involvement ends.







Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by phill
Just wondering how many people are killed in the US by guns kept in homes. Do they keep these kinds of figures for say the last 12 months?


I'm sure they do. But they don't always list the reason for the death. I'd venture most are either suicide or accident.

But the overall number of firearm injuries/deaths pale in comparison to auto deaths (occupant, pedestrian, motorcycle or bicycle) and injuries.

And the reasons for most auto deaths are similar (accident/distracted driving).

In my opinion there are a large proportion of vehicle owners (and firearm owners) who really aren't responsible enough to be in charge of one... but that's the reality of our society.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by phill
Karl, Good question.
Can you point out some that were saved?


oh, crap... you just opened another "Drill" thread... The NRA is happy to post in each of their magazine issues, many police narratives of self-defense related shootings (where the defender was in the right). I believe at least one or two pages of each issue is dedicated to recent events of self-defense.

I use those little narratives to determine where i DO NOT want to live (like certain parts of Atlanta, ALL of Detroit, and wherever Karl lives smile , for example)

I would also posit that for every responsible firearm enthusiast, there might be 2 "gun nuts" who see ownership as some form of empowerment. It's these twerps that cause most of the bad reputation.

Just like the USA driver license test being a complete joke, many conceal-carry training courses are wholly inadequate.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb


I'm sure they do. But they don't always list the reason for the death. I'd venture most are either suicide or accident.


One of the top medical journals; I forget if it was NEJM or the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery, had article on this a while back

#1 - Anger... on spouse shooting the other in a fit of rage... at least that is how the lawyers spin it.

I think suicide and accidents were #6 & #10.

Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb


I would also posit that for every responsible firearm enthusiast, there might be 2 "gun nuts" who see ownership as some form of empowerment. It's these twerps that cause most of the bad reputation.



I prefer my Schutzhund trained Belgian Maloniose and baseball bat...

I have no desire to own a gun... That said.. with 911 response times being more that 10 minutes.... and with a larger number of psychopaths and sociopaths running around... I have no qualms with those that do..

Ever see what a well trained K-9 can do in five minutes?

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 05:40 PM

Obama Administration Rushed to Preserve Intelligence of Russian Election Hacking

American allies, including the British and the Dutch, had provided information describing meetings in European cities between Russian officials ó and others close to Russiaís president, Vladimir V. Putin ó and associates of President-elect Trump, according to three former American officials who requested anonymity in discussing classified intelligence.

Separately, American intelligence agencies had intercepted communications of Russian officials, some of them within the Kremlin, discussing contacts with Trump associates.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Ever see what a well trained K-9 can do in five minutes?



Mine just licks his (former) balls, but I haven't exactly kept up with the continuing training for him.

I respect those who don't own firearms and those RESPONSIBLE folks that do. Like a hammer (on steroids), it is a tool that can be used and mis-used.

I've got nothing someone would want to kill for, and I don't present myself as a target (dark alleys, cash hanging out, soliciting hookers or meth) so I suspect my need to defend using lethal force is low.

But those flying scot sailors can be an unruly bunch so I should probably pack heat at the next regatta. You got to be on meth to think those things are fun (or fast). cry

But back to your statistic regarding domestic violence. Interesting to know, although I would wonder how many domestic violence injuries are caused by firearms vs. anything else (vehicles, objects, etc.)

I'd also have to wonder why a background check didn't pick any prior domestic abuse history (unless they were all first-timers).

Not that I'm defending the gun lobby or the gun-ban lobby...
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb


I would also posit that for every responsible firearm enthusiast, there might be 2 "gun nuts" who see ownership as some form of empowerment. It's these twerps that cause most of the bad reputation.



I prefer my Schutzhund trained Belgian Maloniose and baseball bat...

I have no desire to own a gun... That said.. with 911 response times being more that 10 minutes.... and with a larger number of psychopaths and sociopaths running around... I have no qualms with those that do..

Ever see what a well trained K-9 can do in five minutes?



any facts behind this.... or just news reports on the TV that you naturally filter as pschopath attack.

Case in point... Have there been any acts of domestic terrorism in the last two weeks?

well.... if you shoot and kill one of two Indian engineers.... you could call that an increase in pschopaths and sociopaths that warrant conceal carry .... domestic anti muslim terrorism.... hate crimes against people of color.... or right wing terrorism.

Pick your filter.

This would be a normal issue in social research... what is abnormal are the laws which prevent data collection that score gun use, no matter how they are used.

Posted By: Redtwin

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb

But those flying scot sailors can be an unruly bunch so I should probably pack heat at the next regatta. You got to be on meth to think those things are fun (or fast).


Alright!!! A little sailing discussion. That's reason to celebrate!

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by phill
Karl, Good question.
Can you point out some that were saved?


My question was poorly written.

How many people are going to die in the act of being disarmed? The internet guesstimate is 3% will stand up and fight. I don't know how accurate that is. You can put me in "cold dead hands"category, but my reasons to go on are pretty thin
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb


I would also posit that for every responsible firearm enthusiast, there might be 2 "gun nuts" who see ownership as some form of empowerment. It's these twerps that cause most of the bad reputation.



I prefer my Schutzhund trained Belgian Maloniose and baseball bat...

I have no desire to own a gun... That said.. with 911 response times being more that 10 minutes.... and with a larger number of psychopaths and sociopaths running around... I have no qualms with those that do..

Ever see what a well trained K-9 can do in five minutes?



any facts behind this.... or just news reports on the TV that you naturally filter as pschopath attack.

Case in point... Have there been any acts of domestic terrorism in the last two weeks?

well.... if you shoot and kill one of two Indian engineers.... you could call that an increase in pschopaths and sociopaths that warrant conceal carry .... domestic anti muslim terrorism.... hate crimes against people of color.... or right wing terrorism.

Pick your filter.

This would be a normal issue in social research... what is abnormal are the laws which prevent data collection that score gun use, no matter how they are used.



Are you saying the perpetrators of crimes against persons don't exhibit these predictors in their behavior...

If so can you cite that?

The discussion here is people protecting themselves in their home form those that violate those boundaries...





Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
This would be a normal issue in social research... what is abnormal are the laws which prevent data collection that score gun use, no matter how they are used.

What is the NRA and their lapdogs in congress afraid of? The CDC was ready to do the research but couldn't get funded.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red

The discussion here is people protecting themselves in their home form those that violate those boundaries...


.... and flying scot sailors
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 09:37 PM

I work retail, at the checkout counter when they open their wallet, the concealed carry permit is in front of their driver's license.

My worry is that one of these days there will be a situation where one a**hole with a gun will stand his ground and then all of the others will start shooting without a clue what they are doing.

Here locally I'm more afraid of law enforcement. This week a county deputy put 8 into a drunk, crazy man wielding a knife. Before that just 4 blocks from my house a city officer shot & killed a citizen (she was in our store the day before)in a shoot/no shoot demo in the fire station.

Those that have guns are looking for ways to use them.

If you are a hammer then the whole world is a nail.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 10:32 PM

<****

Scientists are back in a position theyíve been in many times before, in which they might have to voice their political views, both to ensure their own survival and as an ethical necessity. ďThe level of activity Iíve seen in the past few months has been incredible,Ē Teich said. ďI havenít ever seen scientists get this worked up before.Ē Kuznick said that the level of organization is reminiscent of the 1930ísóor beyond. US scientists are planning marches, running for office, speaking publicly at meetings, and reaching out to the general public. Theyíre trying to make their way back into the political world theyíve inhabited before.

ďThe idea of the disinterested, removed scientist is dead everywhere except in pop culture,Ē said Egan. ďThe public still thinks thatís what a scientist is...but closing yourself off in the lab is no longer an option.Ē Kelly Ramirez, like scientists across the country, recognized that right away on the morning of November 9th, and in the wake of the election, she and many other scientists like her knew exactly what they were going to do: organize, resist, and advocate for science.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/02/17 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
[quote=waterbug_wpb]

Iand with a larger number of psychopaths and sociopaths running around... I have no qualms with those that do..







Are you saying the perpetrators of crimes against persons don't exhibit these predictors in their behavior...

If so can you cite that?

The discussion here is people protecting themselves in their home form those that violate those boundaries...



No that is not my point or the question.
This debate is about the reasons for making a choice to weaponize the home. The purpose of the argument is justifying the action as reasonable, getting a pass on the judgment, or persuading others of the reasonableness.

Lots of fuzzy thinking here... usually we use the term reason in the context of cause and effect... reasons are facts that support the mechanism. when really.... what you have is the expression of a value ( I value guns) ... which doesn't need a reason.

Someone, claimed that there were "Larger NUMBERS of nuts" So this introduces a debate about the level of risk AND more importantly.. the idea that the "risk" is actually increasing....

Critical thinking would cause you to consider that the level of deviants is constant or even declining and just being reported more because it sells eyeballs on tv news. Or... a pretty blondes was the victem and we sympathize. Alternatively are you, the observer, just filtering the noise 'of the news and "it seems like" the risk of a home invasion is increasing. (another pretty blonde was a victim)
Can someone point to some measurements that yield valid data .... the frequency and number of nutter home invasions is increasing???

A single event in the country a year could be enough of reason for you to take an action. Hell... No actions are needed to express a value.... You can make it up. "I value guns" Full stop..

However, the intent was to persuade others to ratify some one's decision as being based on much more then a single reason. It was stated as a FACT that the level of deviance had INCREASED and because circumstances had changed... there were MANY bad events and the decision made to weaponize was VERY reasonable. I don't see the data for this.... and so I argue that changing behavior would be Un reasonable.

Somebody else raised the issue of the downside. Ie death caused by emotional exchanges within the family, suicide, accidents etc. This is the other side of the "reasonable argument". They are inviting a person who does opt for an un real reason to own a weapon to also consider the downside risk and share their assessment of the downside risks as they balance against the upside risks ...

Of course, you never have to look at the risk reward balance either. its a free country... you can weaponize your home for NO reason. not a problem. (Now weaponizing the public space... hmm).

A persuasive case to weaponize your home would be founded in facts about the actual risk in your world, actual facts about the change in risk and consideration for the facts of the down side risk that comes with it.

What is actually going on is the attempt to make the case simply by agreement.. EVERYONE has a gun... so its "reasonable" to have a gun in the home. this is simply not a cause and effect relationship. The term reasonable shouldn't be used. This is just agreement based on a shared value. So... facts like the decline in numbers of homes with guns undermines the pro home owner gun argument "by agreement". Fewer people then the past have guns in the homes... ergo... Less agreement on gun values and less of a faux "reason"

No worries... the second amendment gives you the right as a matter of the constitution.... so... even if the number of gun families continues to decline... no changes to you for so long as we have no constitutional amendments passed.
(now ..... if the popularity of gun ownership declined enough... a constitutional amendment would take away your right.... so driving up fear to reverse the everybody has one agreement argument is what it is... a strategy... not a reason.)

I have family members who weaponize for no reason beyond false perception of risks/reward. (they mistate the facts) I only visit the ones with gun safes and good track records of maintaining their firearm skills (helps that they are ex military). I had one family member with a flying scott... Yeah... maybe we should solve that problem once and for all

Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider



Can someone point to some measurements that yield valid data .... the frequency and number of nutter home invasions is increasing???

A single event in the country a year could be enough of reason for you to take an action. Hell... No actions are needed to express a value.... You can make it up. "I value guns" Full stop..


Stop being lazy and go do some of your own research... you will be surprised at the statistics specifically of the robberies that occur while someone is in the house that brews into a murder, or the rapes... There is a very popular Weta sailor out here, that I believe has posted here a few times, whose stepson's murderer was just convicted after 20 years. He surprised the burglar when he came home and was stabbed to death. And this was not some PG County Ghetto Hood either.

Would having a gun changed the outcome of that encounter... that we don't know, but this happens a lot more that what you elude to with your statement above.

Again, I am not advocating guns... I have a dog's bark that does a better job of keeping them away... Again, for those the chose this I have no problems with you... but two things... my child will not come to your house to play with your child... and if you pull it you better use it because it may be used on you.

I guess your tune will change if it hits close to home for you.

Let move on to something more pleasant like Damon getting this site up and running an how we can support his with this.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Let move on to something more pleasant like Damon getting this site up and running an how we can support his with this.


When you're losing the argument, change the subject. Right Schwantz?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 04:40 AM

President Trump Baits the Hook

Donald Trump is all bait. It is the essence of his existence, his governing principle. Herds of stray cats follow him around because he smells like a bag of musty tuna. He is one of those creepy deep-sea monster fish, all eyes and teeth and dangled glowing lure. Every tweet is a ladle of chum tossed into the water. It takes a special kind of self-control to lay off, but you have to if you want to keep everyone's eyes fixed on what matters, and not on whatever is scrolling across the careening Times Square ticker-tape screen that passes for his mind.
Posted By: phill

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 05:02 AM

Why is there a law against collecting information about gun use?
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 06:02 AM

Politics of Two parties on a hot button issue.
Posted By: mbounds

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by phill
Why is there a law against collecting information about gun use?
There's no law against it, but the NRA has successfully lobbied congress not to fund it.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 06:28 PM

What I don't understand is why people care about firearm related anything when it's such a small portion of what kills people every year. The medical industry as a whole unintentionally kills something crazy like 400,000 people a year. Wrong medications, misused prescriptions, screw ups in treatment.

Cancer kills 600,000
Heart disease another 600,000
Respiratory diseases 150,000
Accidents 150,000 (of which some are firearm related)
Stroke 130,000
Alzheimers 90,000
Diabetes 80,000
Influenza and pneumonia 55,000
Nephritis (No clue what that is) 48,000
Suicide, (of which some are with firearms) 43,000

I just don't see how such a statistically insignificant number is such a hot button with people
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by mbounds
Originally Posted by phill
Why is there a law against collecting information about gun use?
There's no law against it, but the NRA has successfully lobbied congress not to fund it.


Doesn't mean there are no independent studies... for instance
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/04/24/5-facts-about-the-nra-and-guns-in-america/

But as always, the question of who funded the study will always make them suspect...

I am sure the FBI has some compiled data.... but it will take an act of congress to get it.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
What I don't understand is why people care about firearm related anything when it's such a small portion of what kills people every year. The medical industry as a whole unintentionally kills something crazy like 400,000 people a year. Wrong medications, misused prescriptions, screw ups in treatment.

Cancer kills 600,000
Heart disease another 600,000
Respiratory diseases 150,000
Accidents 150,000 (of which some are firearm related)
Stroke 130,000
Alzheimers 90,000
Diabetes 80,000
Influenza and pneumonia 55,000
Nephritis (No clue what that is) 48,000
Suicide, (of which some are with firearms) 43,000

I just don't see how such a statistically insignificant number is such a hot button with people


You're also forgetting Hospital Acquired Infections... MERSA being one.... some nasty ****


Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/03/17 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
What I don't understand is why people care about firearm related anything when it's such a small portion of what kills people every year. The medical industry as a whole unintentionally kills something crazy like 400,000 people a year. Wrong medications, misused prescriptions, screw ups in treatment.

Cancer kills 600,000
Heart disease another 600,000
Respiratory diseases 150,000
Accidents 150,000 (of which some are firearm related)
Stroke 130,000
Alzheimers 90,000
Diabetes 80,000
Influenza and pneumonia 55,000
Nephritis (No clue what that is) 48,000
Suicide, (of which some are with firearms) 43,000

I just don't see how such a statistically insignificant number is such a hot button with people


[Linked Image]
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 12:31 AM

35,092 traffic deaths in 2015 (last full year data)
Posted By: Jake

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
What I don't understand is why people care about firearm related anything when it's such a small portion of what kills people every year. The medical industry as a whole unintentionally kills something crazy like 400,000 people a year. Wrong medications, misused prescriptions, screw ups in treatment.

Cancer kills 600,000
Heart disease another 600,000
Respiratory diseases 150,000
Accidents 150,000 (of which some are firearm related)
Stroke 130,000
Alzheimers 90,000
Diabetes 80,000
Influenza and pneumonia 55,000
Nephritis (No clue what that is) 48,000
Suicide, (of which some are with firearms) 43,000

I just don't see how such a statistically insignificant number is such a hot button with people


It's because we can put a finger on the cause - we can point to the responsible individual and we know how to eliminate a significant percentage of those deaths if we could find a way to accept the trade-off of some aspect of gun ownership. Gun deaths are such a hot topic because we are able to make a reduction in the undeserved deaths with action. People ARE trying desperately to find a cancer cure, stroke cure, Alzheimers cure....they're getting support, aid, money...nobody is standing there with a cancer cure while somebody else screams at them about their rights to have cancer. The reality of most of the other deaths you listed is that any solution to those is still largely a scary random shot in the dark (pun unintentional) that might or might not work. A solution is unknown. Guns? Keeping guns out of the hands of people likely to murder with them? Researching and investing in ways to prevent needless deaths at the hands of an **** with a gun? yeah...even the table won't survive that conversation about how to get started.

Automotive accident deaths are probably the most comparable scenario - limits on driving require a balance of acceptable limits on speed and maneuvering to the ability of the technology to maintain it safely vs. the convenience and economical considerations of getting to where you need to go in a reasonable time frame and with a reasonable amount of risk. If we all drove at 5mph everywhere, those death by accidents would probably be almost nothing...but that's not very practical. Neither is allowing everyone to drive at 120mph and accepting a huge increase in accidental deaths. Collectively (and through elected leadership) we basically come to an agreement on how many automotive accident deaths are worth the tradeoff in the convenience and economical benefits related to speed and other limits. You can absolutely look at gun technology in the same way. However, it's such an emotionally charged and irrational issue that we can't even start to talk about HOW many deaths from a gun, or type of gun, are acceptable.

BTW, Trump just made it easier for mentally unstable people to own a gun two days ago by reversing a rule that Obama had put in place to tie government disability support for mental conditions be an item that would show up on a background check to own a firearm. (that one was signed without media photos and in the background of a lot of other publicized noise on other topics)
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 02:35 AM

Despite early denials, growing list of Trump camp contacts with Russians haunts White House

The past few days have brought a growing list of confirmed communications between Trump campaign aides and Russian officials, with each new revelation adding to a cloud of suspicion that hangs over the White House as critics demand an independent investigation.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 03:26 AM

Texting while driving is a supremely stupid way to kill someone or yourself.

How long before we mandate a motion sensor in the car that shuts off the outgoing phone signal when you are moving??



Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 03:57 AM

Quote
Nephritis (No clue what that is) 48,000


Kidney failure.... major preventative measures. Moderate your drinking..... stay off the protein supplements.

Its a value question. Do you value mitigating individual suffering by progressive taxation funding government managed public health campaigns and restrictive laws or taxes.
Or
Do you value your libertarian sense of personal responsibility and autonomy and tolerate the deaths as necessary cost of your free society.

Middle ground is ????


Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

Do you value your libertarian sense of personal responsibility and autonomy and tolerate the deaths as necessary cost of your free society.

Middle ground is ????




This.

Thre middle ground is the libertarian approach. The far right approach is no oversight whatsoever, commonly called anarchy.

Jake, I know what you're saying, but the majority of three things on that list can are for the most part avoidable by taking better care of yourself.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 05:38 PM

Karl... fair try to capture the high ground by suggesting that Anarchy is a viable choice for organizing society. Nope!... 5000 years of civilization has left us with Social Democracy versus Libertarians. You can't imply libertarianism is virtuous because it is in the middle.

No pass. The bounds in this country are between some reflection of libertariansim and some reflection of social democracy.

Interestingly... where does the idea that moderation ... being in the middle is virtuous.... compromise is a moral high ground, if you will come from? I set it up that way... you implicitly agreed.

So, what are your values grounded in so that the middle ground is "good"?

nothing?, might makes right? who has the most money? just the means to an end you want... civil /philosophical principles? theology? which theology?

This inquiry is the foundation for seeing the middle ground as a compromise, ie. a morally superior solution,

OR see the middle ground as a temporary circumstance forced down your throat and you will reverse it ASAP.

Pick an issue..... nephritis... or gun regulations. What are your principles and how do they inform your value that is essentially libertarian.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Thre middle ground is the libertarian approach. The far right approach is no oversight whatsoever, commonly called anarchy.

Jake, I know what you're saying, but the majority of three things on that list can are for the most part avoidable by taking better care of yourself.


It's good that you are a libertarian because your ideas will never be tested.†
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 05:56 PM

Despite early denials, growing list of Trump camp contacts with Russians haunts White House

Two days after the presidential election, a Russian official speaking to a reporter in Moscow offered a surprising acknowledgment: The Kremlin had been in contact with Donald Trumpís campaign. The claim, coming amid allegations that Russia had interfered with the election, was met with an immediate no-wiggle-room, blanket denial from Trumpís spokeswoman. ďIt never happened,Ē Hope Hicks told the Associated Press at the time. ďThere was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.Ē

In fact, it is now clear it did happen.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 06:01 PM

Alternative Facts

President Trump on Saturday angrily accused former president Barack Obama of orchestrating a ďNixon/WatergateĒ plot to tap the phones at his Trump Tower headquarters last fall in the run-up to the election. Citing no evidence to support his explosive allegation, Trump said in a series of five tweets sent Saturday morning that Obama was ďwire tappingĒ his New York offices before the election in a move he compared to McCarthyism.

Trump, citing no evidence, accuses Obama of ĎNixon/Watergateí plot to wiretap Trump Tower

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!
Posted By: Pressure Drop

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 07:10 PM

You need to seek help.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 08:28 PM

Take Nixon in the deepest days of his Watergate paranoia, subtract 50 IQ points, add Twitter, and you have Trump today.
---Bruce Bartlett, adviser to Ronald Reagan
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/04/17 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Pressure Drop
You need to seek help.

Surely. I'm looking for truth. What are you, Schwantz, Todd and Carl looking for? Alternate facts?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/05/17 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

Do you value your libertarian sense of personal responsibility and autonomy and tolerate the deaths as necessary cost of your free society.

Middle ground is ????




This.

Thre middle ground is the libertarian approach. The far right approach is no oversight whatsoever, commonly called anarchy.

Jake, I know what you're saying, but the majority of three things on that list can are for the most part avoidable by taking better care of yourself.


The difference is that you have a great deal of control over taking better care of yourself with regards to those health issues. When an idiot shows up with a gun and kills you, you have practically no control in that situation.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/05/17 04:02 PM

<**** or John Anthony West, they've got some cool insights on how old civilization is. Not important to this, just some interesting shi!t.


Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
No pass. The bounds in this country are between some reflection of libertariansim and some reflection of social democracy.


No, I don't agree with this either. We have far left, and left. There isn't too many in our government that stand up for things like personal freedom, though the masses may cry out against things, their votes speak differently. On the economic side, there's even fewer. I spend far more paying taxes than I get to pay myself to support the social democracy.


Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Interestingly... where does the idea that moderation ... being in the middle is virtuous.... compromise is a moral high ground, if you will come from? I set it up that way... you implicitly agreed.


Please re-write this sentence in a coherent fashion.


Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
So, what are your values grounded in so that the middle ground is "good"?


I value personal responsibility. Self sufficiency when possible. Acting in an honorable way, and not taking advantage of those who can be. Too many in our small view of this world take no responsibility, are far from self sufficient on any measure, and have no honor of any kind. Basically, I'm not here to rely on you, you aren't here to rely on me, and we shouldn't be f ucking one another over. Seems simple right?




Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
nothing?, might makes right? who has the most money? just the means to an end you want... civil /philosophical principles? theology? which theology?

This inquiry is the foundation for seeing the middle ground as a compromise, ie. a morally superior solution,

OR see the middle ground as a temporary circumstance forced down your throat and you will reverse it ASAP.

Pick an issue..... nephritis... or gun regulations. What are your principles and how do they inform your value that is essentially libertarian.



You're starting to get repetitive Mark.

-Might apparently does make right in this society. Ever try to tell a police officer to go f uck himself when he tells you you have to wear a seatbelt? Ever have your plans completely crushed because the treasury decides it needs another $50,000.00 from you last year then see what happens when you tell them to go f uck themselves? They call in the gov't for muscle and you either pay and sidetrack your life, or go to jail.
-Apparently money helps, though I get by, I'm a long ways from buying my way out of problems. You gotta go past the 1% to get into that realm. More like the .00001%
-Everything is a means to an end. As an example, you drop a dollar into some charity, the means in the dollar, the end is you pretend to feel better about yourself. I go to work so I can eat, and have a roof.
-Theology? I'm not going there. Religion in any form is not for me, I'm far too skeptical of that sort of thing.

You're making stuff up for the middle ground as being anything, much less morally superior.

Everything is temporary. You're temporary, I'm temporary our government is temporary, our specie is temporary, our solar system is temporary. Done being dramatic in your choice of words yet?

Picking an issue, you should be free to do what you want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. You want to smoke meth, have at it. You want to own firearms, have at it. I'm sick of being controlled on almost every front. I was just born in the wrong time. I would've been better suited to living even a hundred years ago. Humans are genetically the same as they were 40k years ago, I ain't cut out for this sh!t.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/05/17 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

Do you value your libertarian sense of personal responsibility and autonomy and tolerate the deaths as necessary cost of your free society.

Middle ground is ????




This.

Thre middle ground is the libertarian approach. The far right approach is no oversight whatsoever, commonly called anarchy.

Jake, I know what you're saying, but the majority of three things on that list can are for the most part avoidable by taking better care of yourself.


The difference is that you have a great deal of control over taking better care of yourself with regards to those health issues. When an idiot shows up with a gun and kills you, you have practically no control in that situation.



So people are lazy? They aren't willing to take control and take better care of themselves, so they want a small bandaid fix on what is in actuality a non-issue to make them feel better about being an overweight slob?

You can't fix crazy. There's a lot of people on this planet, some of them are going to do some f ucked up things, the tools don't matter. I'm not sure removing an essential part of the checks and balances our government is built around is wise.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/06/17 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger



So people are lazy? They aren't willing to take control and take better care of themselves, so they want a small bandaid fix on what is in actuality a non-issue to make them feel better about being an overweight slob?

You can't fix crazy. There's a lot of people on this planet, some of them are going to do some f ucked up things, the tools don't matter. I'm not sure removing an essential part of the checks and balances our government is built around is wise.


I'm not sure what you mean by a "non-issue"...you talking about gun related deaths?

Absolutely people are lazy. There are a lot of ways a people can negatively impact their health and we all do at least some of them. It would be insane to expect that level of governance to make people take care of themselves (with regards to something that mostly impacts the person who's responsible himself). Bandaid? Gun deaths? I'm not an overweight slob and I would feel better if we at least made some sort of effort to reduce the number of gun related deaths. I want our society to thrive and advances...making this place safer, more comfortable, easier to live and thrive in so the people that DO take care of themselves have an easier path to success and enjoying life. It's important to me that people don't needlessly lose their lives in a way that is out of their control but that can be prevented.

You can actually make a pretty significant impact on crazy...for starters, making it harder for people who are certifiably crazy, and getting government assistance because of it (because that an easy list to create), to buy a gun (you know, the bit Trump just undid). You can also improve the mental health care in the country (which, BTW, is a really poorly run system). Background checks can certainly be improved. You can make guns, or certain types of guns, harder or impossible to obtain. There are plenty of examples of these things, and more, that have simply saved lives.

I'm lost on your point about checks-n-balances part - are you referring to guns again or something else?
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/06/17 02:22 AM

Quote
I value personal responsibility. Self sufficiency when possible. Acting in an honorable way, and not taking advantage of those who can be. Too many in our small view of this world take no responsibility, are far from self sufficient on any measure, and have no honor of any kind. Basically, I'm not here to rely on you, you aren't here to rely on me, and we shouldn't be f ucking one another over. Seems simple right?


Quote
nothing?, might makes right? who has the most money? just the means to an end you want... civil /philosophical principles? theology? which theology?


so... your guiding principle is uber individualism and hyper self sufficiency for which you value a strict libertarian points of view. Moreover, you recognize that you are out of step with a large majority of the country.

So...
How do you compromise.... or find a middle ground with the world....

Where do you stand when another individuals concerns are unavoidable conflict with yours?

Where is there room for negotiation and compromise with a liberal like my self who grounds their values in the philosophy of "do unto other's as you would have them do to you"?

Posted By: tback

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/06/17 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

Do you value your libertarian sense of personal responsibility and autonomy and tolerate the deaths as necessary cost of your free society.

Middle ground is ????




This.

Thre middle ground is the libertarian approach. The far right approach is no oversight whatsoever, commonly called anarchy.

Jake, I know what you're saying, but the majority of three things on that list can are for the most part avoidable by taking better care of yourself.


The difference is that you have a great deal of control over taking better care of yourself with regards to those health issues. When an idiot shows up with a gun and kills you, you have practically no control in that situation.



So people are lazy? They aren't willing to take control and take better care of themselves, so they want a small bandaid fix on what is in actuality a non-issue to make them feel better about being an overweight slob?

You can't fix crazy. There's a lot of people on this planet, some of them are going to do some f ucked up things, the tools don't matter. I'm not sure removing an essential part of the checks and balances our government is built around is wise.


Miss you Karl!! [End BroMance]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/06/17 04:30 PM

Hahahahahahahahaha!!

Seeded in jealousy: President Trump is comparing his rough month to Obamaís achievements

Even as Trump was making groundless claims that his White House predecessor, Barack Obama, had wiretapped him, Trump was also fuming that Obama had achieved more during the first month-and-a-half of his presidency than Trump has pulled off in the same period of time, according to The Washington Post. This has forced Trump to focus on reimplementing his notorious Muslim travel ban, as well as concentrate on a repeal-and-replace bill for the Affordable Care Act while temporarily setting aside everything else in his legislative agenda.

Inside Trumpís fury: The president rages at leaks, setbacks and accusations

Trump was mad ó steaming, raging mad.

Trumpís young presidency has existed in a perpetual state of chaos. The issue of Russia has distracted from what was meant to be his most triumphant moment: his address last Tuesday to a joint session of Congress. And now his latest unfounded accusation ó that Barack Obama tapped Trumpís phones during last fallís campaign ó had been denied by the former president and doubted by both allies and fellow Republicans.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/06/17 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
You can also improve the mental health care in the country (which, BTW, is a really poorly run system).


Any suggestions on a starting point?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/06/17 05:52 PM

Don't be messin' with the brothers...

Gun sales have dropped since Trumpís election, except among people scared of his administration

But that overall decline has been accompanied by some unusual growth: Gun clubs and shops that cater to black and LGBT clients say there has been an uptick in interest in firearms since November among those who fear that racial and gender-based violence could increase during Donald Trumpís presidency.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/07/17 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by phill
Just wondering how many people are killed in the US by guns kept in homes. Do they keep these kinds of figures for say the last 12 months?


I wonder how many people will die if they decide to rescind the right to own fire arms here.


Who said anything about rescinding the right to own fire arms?...there are middle ground ideas.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/07/17 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by Jake
You can also improve the mental health care in the country (which, BTW, is a really poorly run system).


Any suggestions on a starting point?


Universally include more significant mental health care in health insurance coverage for starters. Place more legal emphasis and oversight on the facilities that are providing serious/emergency mental health care. There is a lot of BS going on in the facilities that are run by big business and its nearly impossible to get the legal / policing system to take incidents seriously.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/07/17 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by Jake
You can also improve the mental health care in the country (which, BTW, is a really poorly run system).


Any suggestions on a starting point?


Universally include more significant mental health care in health insurance coverage for starters. Place more legal emphasis and oversight on the facilities that are providing serious/emergency mental health care. There is a lot of BS going on in the facilities that are run by big business and its nearly impossible to get the legal / policing system to take incidents seriously.


Actually the police and legal system does take mental health seriously. The problem, at least here,is their hands are tied by the Lanterman-Petris-Short (LPS) Act, which virtually abolished involuntary hospitalization except in extreme cases. All they can do is hold them for 24 to 72 hours. From there you go before the judge, they ask three questions, and if you can answer them you're on your way back out.

I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but out here and quite a few other states mental health is generally under the domain of the state or county government.. I don't know how much more oversight you can get.. Regarding the private facilities these are generally Hiltons with psyc staff. I think by your statement of big business, are you referring to the convalescent facilities that may have a psychiatrist on call.

As for the coverage, I believe this was addressed with the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008(MHPAEA) which pretty much does cover what is detailed at the time in the DSM-IV.. which is now DSM-5.

Posted By: Jake

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/08/17 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by Jake
You can also improve the mental health care in the country (which, BTW, is a really poorly run system).


Any suggestions on a starting point?


Universally include more significant mental health care in health insurance coverage for starters. Place more legal emphasis and oversight on the facilities that are providing serious/emergency mental health care. There is a lot of BS going on in the facilities that are run by big business and its nearly impossible to get the legal / policing system to take incidents seriously.


Actually the police and legal system does take mental health seriously. The problem, at least here,is their hands are tied by the Lanterman-Petris-Short (LPS) Act, which virtually abolished involuntary hospitalization except in extreme cases. All they can do is hold them for 24 to 72 hours. From there you go before the judge, they ask three questions, and if you can answer them you're on your way back out.

I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but out here and quite a few other states mental health is generally under the domain of the state or county government.. I don't know how much more oversight you can get.. Regarding the private facilities these are generally Hiltons with psyc staff. I think by your statement of big business, are you referring to the convalescent facilities that may have a psychiatrist on call.

As for the coverage, I believe this was addressed with the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008(MHPAEA) which pretty much does cover what is detailed at the time in the DSM-IV.. which is now DSM-5.



UHS is one example and is a national outfit. They get away with quite a lot that is not in the interest of the patient. I'm not going into details but trust that I have witnessed several of the exact poor/illegal practices as what is portrayed in this article by the same company.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/rosalindadams/intake?utm_term=.dr1K9eOMK#.na4AVbmQA

There are also other specific cases where our mental health care system failed to properly handle persons with issues that have turned violent. It's HARD and it's definitely complex but there is certainly room for improvement.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/08/17 05:39 AM

What should a United States senator, or any citizen, do if the president is a liar? Does ignoring this reality benefit the American people? Do we make a bad situation worse by disrespecting the president of the United States? Or do we have an obligation to say that he is a liar to protect Americaís standing in the world and peopleís trust in our institutions?

I happen to strongly believe in civil political discourse. The vast majority of people in Congress who hold views different than mine are not liars. It is critical we have strong, fact-based debates on the important issues facing our country and that we respect people who come to different conclusions. In a democracy people will always have honestly held different points of view.

But how do we deal with a president who makes statements that reverberate around our country and the world that are not based on fact or evidence? What is the appropriate way to respond to that? And if the media and political leaders fail to call lies what they are, are they then guilty of misleading the public?
---Bernie Sanders
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/11/17 03:39 PM

This could have been called ToddFest because SchwantzFest just doesn't roll off the tongue easily.

Lock her up, lock her up, we still need to pursue that.

If you donít like it here, go to Syria, go to someplace else.

I donít want íem, as a veteran I donít want íem, let íem go back home. If theyíve got a problem, let Saudi Arabia take care of íem.

If sheís Jewish, she should go back to her country.

This is America, we donít want Sharia Law. Christian country.

Sen. John McCain is a secret communist.

I just want to let them know that I canít wait for the liberal genocide to begin. Thatís the way to make America great again. Liberals are destroying the country.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/17/17 04:54 PM

Trump should know OBAMA NEVER LEFT THE WHITE HOUSE! He's in the closet! HE HAS SCISSORS!
---Author Stephen King
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/24/17 11:39 PM

The people who vote for this will have this vote tattooed to their foreheads as they go forward.
---Nancy Pelosi
Posted By: phill

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/25/17 04:18 AM

H1616,
I thought you must have emigrated.
The circus has been going on without your commentary.

Have you been on holidays?

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/26/17 02:53 AM

Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill.
---Steve Bannon

You know, the last time someone ordered me to something, I was 18 years old. And it was my daddy. And I didn't listen to him, either.
---Member of House Republican Caucus
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/26/17 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by phill
H1616,
I thought you must have emigrated.
The circus has been going on without your commentary.

Have you been on holidays?


[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/26/17 07:34 PM

You have attracted people that have determined ideology is more important than facts.
---Ted Koppel speaking to Sean Hannity

This may explain why Todd and Schwantz are so whacky.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 03/28/17 12:14 AM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/01/17 01:26 AM

The beclowning of the executive branch

1) Mike Flynn, President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser, has told the Federal Bureau of Investigation and congressional officials investigating the Trump campaign’s potential ties to Russia that he is willing to be interviewed in exchange for a grant of immunity from prosecution, according to officials with knowledge of the matter.

When you are given immunity, that means you probably committed a crime.
--- Michael Flynn in the fall of 2016.

2) Less than a week after suffering a stinging defeat on health care legislation, President Donald Trump shook up his West Wing staff on Thursday, dispatching one of his top aides to shore up an outside political group that the White House believes failed to support Trump’s agenda at a critical juncture.

3) If her devotion explains how Manigault wound up in Trump’s White House as the highest-ranking African American in the West Wing, it is far less easy to explain exactly what she’s doing there. Some African American political insiders already have concluded that she is ineffective, and she is routinely derided on social media as simply providing cover for a president deeply unpopular with African Americans. Some black Republicans were particularly critical of the Trump administration’s handling of the HBCU initiative, which included a White House meeting with the school officials that some viewed as little more than a photo op for the president …

Armstrong Williams, another longtime Republican strategist and close adviser to [Ben] Carson, said Manigault‚Äôs influence goes beyond ‚Äúthe so-called black agenda.‚ÄĚ He said Manigault has input on press secretary Sean Spicer‚Äôs daily briefings and that ‚Äúshe carries a lot of weight‚ÄĚ with candidates seeking ambassadorships.


4) Jared Kushner, son-in-law and senior adviser to President Donald Trump, has been dispatched by the White House to discuss criminal justice reform issues with key senators, BuzzFeed News has learned. Kushner met with Sens. Chuck Grassley and Dick Durbin on Capitol Hill Thursday.

Let‚Äôs just stop for a second and consider the fact that the person described by himself as ‚Äúfirst among equals‚ÄĚ in the White House has been given the lead on U.S. relations with Canada, Mexico, China and the Middle East, has also been asked to run a White House Office of American Innovation, and will now also apparently be running point on improving the criminal justice system. This is a person whose prior background suggests no particular competence in any of these areas of government. His only qualification for White House service appears to be that he married well.

5) Secretary of State Rex Tillerson takes a private elevator to his palatial office on the seventh floor of the State Department building, where sightings of him are rare on the floors below.

On many days, he blocks out several hours on his schedule as ‚Äúreading time,‚ÄĚ when he is cloistered in his office poring over the memos he prefers ahead of in-person meetings.

Most of his interactions are with an insular circle of political aides who are new to the State Department. Many career diplomats say they still have not met him, and some have been instructed not to speak to him directly ‚ÄĒ or even make eye contact.

On his first three foreign trips, Tillerson skipped visits with State Department employees and their families, embassy stops that were standard morale-boosters under other secretaries of state.


Nothing to see here, just someone whose primary job in government is to talk to other people being averse to … talking to other people.


Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/03/17 06:04 PM

Nothing prepared us for the magnitude of this train wreck.

Our Dishonest President
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/03/17 06:14 PM

He gives every indication that he is as much the gullible tool of liars as he is the liar in chief.

Why Trump lies
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/05/17 02:40 PM

What’s uniquely threatening about Trump’s approach, though, is how many fronts he’s opened in this struggle for power and the vehemence with which he seeks to undermine the institutions that don’t go along.

Trump’s Authoritarian Vision
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/05/17 02:45 PM

When he calls journalists ‚Äúenemies of the people,‚ÄĚ Trump (whether he knows it or not) echoes Josef Stalin and other despots.

Trump’s War on Journalism
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/06/17 05:39 PM

Much of his misinformation is of the creepiest kind. Implausible conspiracy theories from fly-by-night websites; unsubstantiated speculations from supermarket tabloids. Bigoted stories he may have simply made up; stuff he heard on TV talk shows.

Conspiracy Theorist in Chief
Posted By: H17cat

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/10/17 06:48 PM

Is this now the Mikey Forum?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/19/17 08:24 PM

Bill O’Reilly Is Out At Fox News

Where will Todd go for his alternative facts now?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 04/24/17 05:47 PM

Delusional? You be the judge.


Trump’s over-the-top, boastful AP interview, annotated
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/01/17 04:49 PM

Will Trump Voters Ever Admit They Were Wrong?

On the Power of Being Awful
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/01/17 06:10 PM

Trump has the intellectual depth of a coat of paint.

Trump’s Degradation of the Language

In Trump world, facts don‚Äôt matter, truth doesn‚Äôt matter, language doesn‚Äôt matter. Passionate performance is the only ideal. A lie forcefully told and often repeated is better than truth ‚ÄĒ it is accepted as an act of faith, which is better than a point of fact.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/12/17 01:31 PM

Trump fires Comey and then threatens him! Dumb dumb has lost his damn mind!

Is this what winning feels like? Is America great again?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/14/17 11:06 PM

When Trump gives an interview, why does he always look like he's sitting on a toilet?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/16/17 01:54 AM

Trump makes George W. Bush look like a Rhodes Scholar.

More and more Republicans are ordering...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/16/17 03:28 PM

He's actually what you thought a black president would be.
---Dave Chappelle
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/20/17 12:36 AM

"A real nut job."

Hahahahahahaha! When Trump is convicted he might get a real nut job.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 05/29/17 02:12 AM

Even princelings get the blues.

Jared Kushner’s Growing Stench of Treason
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 06/11/17 02:44 AM

Profiles in Poltroonery

**** assholes playing the role of ‚Äúsenator‚ÄĚ and ‚Äúformer FBI Director‚ÄĚ and ‚ÄúDirector of National Security‚ÄĚ and ‚ÄúDirector of the NSA‚ÄĚ had run for the exits and called out over their shoulders, ‚ÄúAsk Bob Mueller. It‚Äôs in his court now.‚ÄĚ

Trump is dirty. He’s guilty of something so bad he fired the director of the FBI trying to keep it covered up. He’s running scared. Trump obviously figured that actually obstructing justice by trying to influence a criminal investigation by the FBI was preferable to having that investigation discover what he is covering up. That prospect scares him to death. There is only one question remaining to be answered, really. What information could be so damaging to Trump that it’s worse than obstruction of justice, a federal crime and an impeachable offense?

There’s something out there having to do with Russians and money and Russians and sex. Money laundering? Illegal loans? Offshore payments on which he hasn’t paid tax? Hot and cold running hookers? Peepee parties? Whatever it is, Trump is afraid of it coming out not only because it will cost him the presidency, it will cost him his identity, his manhood. It will cost him who he is.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 06/12/17 09:00 PM

In a recent Quinnipiac University poll, respondents were asked what word immediately came to mind when they thought of Donald Trump: The No. 1 response was ‚Äúidiot.‚ÄĚ This was followed by ‚Äúincompetent,‚ÄĚ ‚Äúliar,‚ÄĚ ‚Äúleader,‚ÄĚ ‚Äúunqualified,‚ÄĚ and finally, in sixth place, ‚Äúpresident.‚ÄĚ Superlatives like ‚Äúgreat‚ÄĚ and a few unprintable descriptives came further down on the list. But let us focus on the first.

In ancient Greek society, an idiotes was a layperson who lacked professional skills. The idiot contributed nothing to public life or the common good. His existence depended on the skill and labor of others; he was a leech sucking the lifeblood from the social body. Related to this, idiocy (from the root idios, ‚Äúone‚Äôs own‚ÄĚ) was the state of a private or self-centered person. This contrasted with the status of the public citizen, or polites, such that to be an idiot was to be withdrawn, isolated and selfish, to not participate in the public, political life of the city-state. In Greek society, the condition of idiocy was seen as peculiar and strange (a meaning that is retained in the English word ‚Äúidiosyncratic‚ÄĚ); thus ‚Äúidiot‚ÄĚ was a term of reproach and disdain.

Trump and the True Meaning of ‚ÄėIdiot‚Äô
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 07/04/17 03:45 PM

We have a president who neither understands nor respects the basic norms of American democracy. Make no mistake: Donald Trump is a true aberration. There is no figure like him in U.S. history, for which we should be thankful.

Trump’s inexperience is unique; he is the only president never to have served in government or the military. This weakness is exponentially compounded by his ignorance of both policy and process, his lack of curiosity, his inability to focus and his tremendous insecurity. He refuses to acknowledge his shortcomings, let alone come to terms with them; and he desperately craves the kind of sycophantic adulation that George Washington, a genuine hero, pointedly rejected.

Our #FakeHero president is an insult to our Founders
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 07/13/17 10:15 PM

Trump comments on border wall while flying to France on Air Force One.

"One of the things with the wall is you need transparency. You have to be able to see through it. In other words, if you can't see through that wall ‚ÄĒ so it could be a steel wall with openings, but you have to have openings because you have to see what's on the other side of the wall.
And I'll give you an example. As horrible as it sounds, when they throw the large sacks of drugs over, and if you have people on the other side of the wall, you don't see them -- they hit you on the head with 60 pounds of stuff? It's over. As cray as that sounds, you need transparency through that wall. But we have some incredible designs."

Them Mexicans are some strong mofo's to be able to toss a 60 pound bag of drugs over a 40 foot wall.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 07/13/17 10:39 PM

Trump Lawyer Marc Kasowitz Threatens Stranger in Emails: ‚ÄėWatch Your Back , Bitch‚Äô

I gotta get more popcorn.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 07/17/17 05:11 PM

Trump is killing the Republican Party
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 07/19/17 02:03 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 07/20/17 04:06 PM

President Trump’s first six months: The fact-check tally

Trump, the most fact-challenged politician that The Fact Checker has ever encountered.

Trump also has a disturbing habit of taking credit for events or business decisions that happened before he took the oath of office ‚ÄĒ or had even been elected.
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 07/21/17 02:13 AM

With the latest news concerning Trump researching whether he can pardon himself, this thread should be moved to the humor section.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 07/24/17 09:07 PM

Was this guy your state congressman in Texas Todd?

[Linked Image]

GOP congressman blames health care struggles on ‚Äėrepugnant‚Äô Republican ‚Äėfemale senators‚Äô

Rep. Blake Farenthold suggested he’d like to resolve things with a gunfight.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 07/26/17 07:49 PM

Trump and Republicans treat their voters like morons

But their strongest motivation right now is fear, fear of the voters they regard as too dim-witted to be able to make a rational judgment about the most consequential policy question one can imagine.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 07/27/17 10:06 PM

You know you're screwed when Vogue Magazine gets political and dumps on you.

Look, It’s Time to Collectively and Officially Give Up on Ivanka Trump
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 07/28/17 02:23 PM

Trump Is Woody Allen Without the Humor

The president’s primary problem as a leader is not that he is impetuous, brash or naive. It’s not that he is inexperienced, crude, an outsider. It is that he is weak and sniveling.

He’s not strong and self-controlled, not cool and tough, not low-key and determined; he’s whiny, weepy and self-pitying. He throws himself, sobbing, on the body politic. He’s a drama queen.

Half the president‚Äôs tweets show utter weakness. They are plaintive, shrill little cries, usually just after dawn. ‚ÄúIt‚Äôs very sad that Republicans, even some that were carried over the line on my back, do very little to protect their president.‚ÄĚ The brutes.

His public brutalizing of Attorney General Jeff Sessions isn’t strong, cool and deadly; it’s limp, lame and blubbery.

The truth, six months in, is that he is not presidential and is not getting it done. His mad, blubbery petulance isn‚Äôt working for him but against him. If he were presidential he‚Äôd be getting it done‚ÄĒbuilding momentum, gaining support. He‚Äôd be over 50%, not under 40%. He‚Äôd have health care, and more.

Meanwhile the whole world is watching, a world that contains predators. How could they not be seeing this weakness, confusion and chaos and thinking it’s a good time to cause some trouble?
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/05/17 12:04 AM

[Linked Image]

TRUMP, AMERICA'S BOY KING: GOLF AND TELEVISION WON'T MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/09/17 12:56 AM

Trump gets a folder full of positive news about himself twice a day

... the folders are filled with screenshots of positive cable news chyrons (those lower-third headlines and crawls), admiring tweets, transcripts of fawning TV interviews, praise-filled news stories, and sometimes just pictures of Trump on TV looking powerful.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Possibly the best part of this wonderful, hilarious, deeply terrifying story is that they have to do it twice a day. They can't just pop in each morning with a collection of news clippings that paint Donald in a positive light‚ÄĒthey have to go in twice, because just once a day isn't enough. And augment it with tweets praising him. And printed-out pictures of himself.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/10/17 03:13 AM

Trump translated...

Norwegian: Trump or trumpa translates as ‚Äúa smelly substance picked up in the street that one cannot easily scrape off the bottom of a shoe.‚ÄĚ Usage: ‚ÄúYour boots are covered in dog trumpa, please leave them outside!‚ÄĚ

Catalan: Trumpello means ‚Äúthe color yellow‚ÄĚ and, alternately, ‚Äúurine, but only in the context of a golden shower.‚ÄĚ

Mandarin: Trump-hao has two possible meanings, ‚Äúa dangerous escalation in tensions triggered by a minor trade dispute‚ÄĚ or, simply, ‚Äúescalator.‚ÄĚ Example: ‚ÄúDon‚Äôt let your extra long tie get caught in the trump-hao."

Danish: The Danes use the word trumpsen to convey the feeling of sadness or it can be translated more concisely as ‚ÄúSAD!‚ÄĚ

Polish: Trumpczyk is defined as ‚Äúhuge or enormous,‚ÄĚ as in ‚ÄėThe crowds for the inauguration were trumpczyk!‚Äô‚ÄĚ

Vietnamese: In this Southeast Asian language, trumpyen denotes ‚Äúrust caused by oxidation and moisture‚ÄĚ or ‚Äúrust that forms on a democracy when it is not used enough or is neglected.‚ÄĚ

Russian: The playful word trumpovski means ‚Äúpuppet‚ÄĚ or ‚Äúpawn‚ÄĚ in Russian. Example: ‚ÄúWith an incriminating videotape in his possession, the brilliant puppet master was able to fully control the empty-headed trumpovski.‚ÄĚ

Arabic: Trumpadi is a form of rebuke or way of scolding others, especially employees, and can be translated as ‚ÄúYou‚Äôre fired!‚ÄĚ

German: The Germans use the president‚Äôs original surname, drumpf, when referring to racism or someone who is racist, as in ‚ÄúGood thing the island nation is not lead by a drumpf, otherwise minorities would be in big trouble.‚ÄĚ

Italian: The simple form, trumpano, means ‚Äúwindbag, blowhard, or blabbermouth.‚ÄĚ Usage: ‚ÄúIf I have to listen to that trumpano for four more years, I‚Äôm definitely moving to Canada.‚ÄĚ

Hebrew: In Israel and other places where Hebrew is spoken, a trumpowitz is ‚Äúan emotionally-stunted individual obsessed with his mother or, less kindly, a mama‚Äôs boy.‚ÄĚ Example: ‚ÄúThat kind of whiny tantrum is unusual for a man, but common with a trumpowitz.‚ÄĚ

Turkish: A 19th century addition to the language, the word trumpogan is used to denote ‚Äúa weird or offbeat hairstyle‚ÄĚ as in, ‚ÄúWith the large front shelf, the rakish comb over, and those slicked back sides, the man created his own unique trumpogan.‚ÄĚ

Greek: The word trumpolous entered the Greek language in Plato‚Äôs time and refers to a person who dodges military service. Usage: When war broke out, the cowardly trumpolous claimed he had a foot problem rather than serve to defend his country.‚ÄĚ

Swahili: Trumpaea is commonly used in Tanzania, Kenya, and other African countries to mean ‚Äúvagina.‚ÄĚ Usage: When he tried to grab her trumpaea, she slapped him in the mouth, then threw him to the lions.‚ÄĚ

Japanese: In Japan, they have a very precise word for bankruptcies that involve real estate properties‚Ää‚ÄĒ‚Äätrumpimoto. Example: ‚ÄúWhen the economy tanked, all the over-leveraged casinos went trumpimoto.‚ÄĚ

Hindi: Trumpatel is a verb in India‚Äôs primary language and means ‚Äúto continuously trumpet one‚Äôs vast wealth, long after anyone cares.‚ÄĚ Usage: ‚ÄúHis entire organization trumpateled his many billions, but without tax returns, there was no proof.‚ÄĚ

Korean: A culinary word, trump-pak is defined as ‚Äúthe soft underbelly of a domestic dog considered delicious served with duck sauce.‚ÄĚ

French: A self-portrait is called a trumpeau in French. Example: ‚ÄúShe hung a trumpeau of her husband in the basement of their white house, where it would not constantly nauseate her.‚ÄĚ

Nepalese: A word that originated in the foothills of the Himalayas, a trumpsherpa is a ‚Äúpotbelly, paunch, or beer gut,‚ÄĚ as in, ‚ÄúHe had to have his expensive suits taken out twice a year due to his ever expanding trumpsherpa.‚ÄĚ

Spanish: Trumpierdo is defined as an acute state of confusion, fear, or disbelief: ‚ÄúThe entire country was overcome with trumpierdo when a circus barker was accidentally given a stockpile of lethal weapons.‚ÄĚ
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 08/11/17 05:25 PM

Only six months in office and the guy almost starts a nuclear war over twitter?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 08/11/17 07:42 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/13/17 09:04 PM

Any thoughts here Todd?

Why Are Neo-Nazis on Twitter So Scared of Being Called Neo-Nazis?

[Linked Image]

But after the streets were cleared, far right thugs who participated in the demonstration seemed only concerned with one thing: Not being called Nazis.

... high-profile people from the protests have been clutching their pearls on social media whenever people have dared called them Nazis.

Do you wear pearls Todd?
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/14/17 03:59 AM

If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.
---President Lyndon Baines Johnson

We have a bigoted billionaire-cum-president who has done precious little for the white working class whose resentment fueled his rise. They have emptied their ethical and economic pockets in support of him even though he turned his back on them the moment he entered the Oval Office. The only remnant of his leadership they have to hold on to is the folklore of white nationalist sentiment, and xenophobic passion, that offer them psychic comfort if little financial stability.

Do you know where your wallet is Todd?
Posted By: hobie1616

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! - 08/17/17 07:07 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/17/17 10:23 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Trump Goes Sailing - 08/18/17 01:59 AM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/18/17 06:19 PM

Arnold is talking to you Todd...

Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/18/17 09:27 PM

Obama Invites Trump...

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 08/21/17 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by hobie1616
[Linked Image]



Typical democrat
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/21/17 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Typical democrat


Typical RepubliKlan

Four warrants out for America's saddest white nationalist, who still wants your pity

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/22/17 10:20 PM

President Trump’s list of false and misleading claims tops 1,000

That‚Äôs an impressive number by any standard. In fact, we are a little late with this update because we have simply been overwhelmed keeping track of the deluge of claims made by the president in the later part of July. Things slowed down during the president‚Äôs ‚Äúworking vacation,‚ÄĚ so we have finally been able to catch up.

At the president‚Äôs current pace, he averages nearly five claims a day. Many are repeats of claims that have been previously debunked. We also include statements that are unacknowledged flip-flops from previously held positions, such as touting new highs in a stock market that he previously derided as being a ‚Äúbig, fat bubble.‚ÄĚ
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/23/17 01:33 AM

Trump's base...

Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/23/17 03:22 PM

What does it tell us when businessmen demonstrate a greater moral resolve than ministers?

Under Trump, evangelicals show their true racist colors
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 08/28/17 03:25 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/07/17 02:07 PM

A well written letter:

I am a 67-year-old American white woman. My parents enlisted in World War II to fight fascism. They both served; my mother was a nurse, my father navigated bombers. They lost friends in that bloody war so that all the world could be free of fascism. They did not fight so that some white people could claim supremacy or that Nazis could openly walk the streets of America.

White person to white supremacist person: What is wrong with you?

People of European heritage are doing just fine in the world. They run most of the world’s institutions, hold much of the world’s wealth, replicate as frequently as other humans. You’re not in any danger here. The world is changing, that’s true. Others want a piece of the pie. They work for it, strive for it and earn it. Technology (robotics) is having a greater effect on your job prospects than immigrants. Going forward, tackling corporate control and climate change will need all of our attention, ideas and energy. Put down your Tiki torches and trite flags and get involved in some real work.

By the way, the world won the war against Nazi fascism in the 1940s, just as America won the war against the Confederacy in the 1860s. Aligning with two lost causes just labels you as profound losers.

And finally, white person to white person: Like my parents before me, I will not stand idly by nor give up my rights or the rights of other Americans because you think you are better than some of us. It doesn’t work that way. All Americans stand shoulder to shoulder against your hatred and bigotry.

Jonna Ramey
Salt Lake City
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/10/17 02:16 AM

Do RepubliKlans like poetry? Here's a little ditty for ya...

Like the climate change-denying Kochs

Rush Limbaugh thought that Irma was a hoax.

But that opinion underwent a change

Once his Palm Beach home got into range.

You know the region must be in dire straits

When that pompous butt evacuates.

Many a Florida Rushbo ditto head

May, because they listened, turn up dead:

Thanks to him, they'll not have left in time.

It's, Al Roker said, almost a crime

Their feeblemindedness so to abuse

By saying that the hurricane's fake news.
Posted By: phill

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 09/10/17 06:54 AM

Good for a laugh !







Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/13/17 02:41 PM


‚ÄúI honestly don‚Äôt think it was Ted Cruz, I don‚Äôt think Ted Cruz looks at porn,‚ÄĚ Jimmy Kimmel said. ‚ÄúTed Cruz masturbates to pictures of poor people without health care.‚ÄĚ
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/16/17 01:43 AM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/16/17 01:45 AM

The popular vote loser's major concern now is, when he's indicted, will he be charged as a juvenile or adult?
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/18/17 01:29 PM

‚ÄúHere‚Äôs what I keep saying: We know there‚Äôs something wrong, but what I‚Äôm tired of is people ‚Äē daily, nightly, on all the cable news shows ‚Äē telling us there‚Äôs something wrong. I just think we ought to direct our resources and our energies to doing something about it. And other people have made this point: If the guy was running Dairy Queen, he‚Äôd be gone. This guy couldn‚Äôt work at The Gap. So why do we have to be victimized by his fecklessness, his ignorance? But it‚Äôs just the behavior is insulting to Americans, whether you voted for him or not ‚Äē and I feel bad for people who did vote for him because he promised them things that they really needed and one wonders if he‚Äôs really going to come through. I know there‚Äôs trouble in this country and we need a guy who can fix that trouble. I wish it was Trump, but it‚Äôs not, so let‚Äôs just stop whining about what a goon he is and figure out a way to take him aside and put him in a home.‚Äú
---David Letterman
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/19/17 02:27 AM

No wonder Todd supports the Popular Vote Loser. They both have the same world view.

The tutoring team at the Trump White House is attempting to teach Donald Trump the value of the rest of the world.

Trump's national security team had become alarmed by the president's frequent questioning about the value of a robust American presence around the world. When briefed on the diplomatic, military and intelligence posts, the new president would often cast doubt on the need for all the resources.

Trump has thrown missiles into Syria and exchanges almost daily threats with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, but somehow it has eluded him that those places are not handy walking distance from military bases in the United States. As with previous attempts to educate Trump on any subject, getting him to understand that expressing military power on the far side of the planet first requires having military power on the far side of the planet required that the whole thing get boiled down to visual aids.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson organized the July 20 session to lay out the case for maintaining far-flung outposts - and to present it, using charts and maps, in a way the businessman-turned-politician would appreciate.

This follows in the level of detail that it requires to feed Donald Trump his intelligence briefings.

Keep it short and free of nuance‚ÄĒthat is the new guidance that has recently circulated to some intelligence analysts who compile materials for the President‚Äôs Daily Brief on security threats around the globe.

Of course, Trump has also asked why America has nuclear weapons if we don’t get to use them. So whoever staffs the Department of Remedial Presidency should be asking for a budget increase.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/23/17 09:47 PM

Washington hostesses are all aflutter today as they vie with one another for the august honor of being the first to throw a bash for Sarah Palin, just named as the First Ambassador to Nambia, of any gender.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)‚ÄĒDonald J. Trump on Friday capped a busy week of diplomatic activity by naming the former Alaska governor Sarah Palin the United States Ambassador to Nambia.

By naming Palin to this diplomatic post, the United States has become the first nation in the world to formally recognize Nambia’s existence.

In a joint appearance with Trump at the White House, Palin acknowledged that she ‚Äúdidn‚Äôt know a lot about Nambia‚ÄĚ but said that she was looking forward to receiving a comprehensive briefing on the nation‚Äôs history, culture, and customs from the Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos.

‚ÄúThen it‚Äôs Nambia, here I come!‚ÄĚ Palin exclaimed.

In a sign that Palin’s appointment was a popular move, a new poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Americans support her permanent relocation to Nambia.

‚ÄúYes, I will be relocating to Nambia very soon. Betsy says that they wear rings on their toes and eat fruitfly ice cream and I‚Äôve never done that. It sounds so exciting. But to tell you the truth, this is my second choice of an ambassadorship. I was really hoping to get assigned to Nibiru. Donald spoke with their charge d‚Äôaffaires, the Third Least Wuge, about me coming up for a visit at least. The Wuge said he would undergo soovlaffi before having me on his world. So once he gets settled, maybe Ann Coulter can take my place and I‚Äôll go to Nibiru and look at Saturn from my back yard.‚ÄĚ

A cultural attache revealed that soovlaffi is a form of slow torture, where the victim is staked out in the desert under a broiling sun and sentient vines encircle their prey and squirt poisonous liquid. It was outlawed seventeen millenia ago. Since their approach to earth the Nibiruns have decided to attempt a controlled explosion at one of their poles, hoping to knock Nibiru out of its current orbit and move it as far as possible away from Washington, D.C.

Note: Nambia is the world's leading exporter of covfefe.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/28/17 12:53 AM

Is this the bar Todd hangs out in? If not, it will be.

Reefpoint Brew House co-owner suggests killing kneeling NFL players in Facebook comment

RACINE ‚ÄĒ A co-owner of a popular lakefront restaurant advocated for the killing of kneeling NFL players in a Facebook comment posted Monday, according to multiple screenshots circulating on social media.

The owners of Reefpoint Brew House, 2 Christopher Columbus Causeway, acknowledged the comment from fellow co-owner John Valko in a statement released on their Facebook page Tuesday evening.

In the comment, which has been deleted but appears as a screenshot multiple times in the comments on the statement, Valko advocates for the killing of NFL players who kneel during the national anthem before games, something more than 200 players did Sunday.

‚ÄúKill the idiot players,‚ÄĚ Valko wrote. ‚ÄúExecute them. They are nothing but garbage. The league is screwed up if they think it is their right. It is their duty to respect our country and our flag. They should go kneel in front of a freight train. Shame on these stupid misfits of society. They need to die.‚ÄĚ
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 09/30/17 03:59 PM

It’s wrong to do it in the streets; it’s wrong to do it in the tweets.

You cannot do it on the field; you cannot do it if you’ve kneeled.

And don’t do it if you’re rich, you ungrateful son of a bitch.

Because there’s one thing that’s a fact; you cannot protest while you’re black
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 10/02/17 01:26 AM

... cheap cracker.

Posted By: hobie1616

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 10/04/17 09:03 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 10/05/17 04:52 AM

A Narcissist’s Guide to Helping Others Understand It Is All About You
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 10/06/17 12:54 AM

Is Trump Really a 'Moron,' as Tillerson Said, or Just Racist and Obnoxious?

Stupidity is one of the more easily accessible and widespread explanations for Trump’s behavior. It’s no coincidence, of course, that his election resurrected the futuristic cult classic “Idiocracy’ about a dumbed down America that chooses a loutish porn actor as president. It’s true that Trump has claimed in the past that his IQ is much higher than that of Obama or of comedian John Stewart, but in that case, he’s doing an excellent job of concealing his intelligence, as his visit this week to Puerto Rico showed.

Some people ascribe Trump‚Äôs behavior in such events to obnoxious racism rather than stupidity. Prejudice and racial stereotypes are such a prominent feature of his personality, they maintain, that he just can‚Äôt keep them under lock. He has described himself as ‚Äėthe least racist person ever,‚ÄĚ but since he launched his presidential run by describing Mexican immigrants as rapists and murderers, Trump has described Puerto Ricans as lazy, Muslims as wannabe terrorists, African-Americans as thugs, Jews as proficient with money and women as inferior sexual objects. It‚Äôs only among neo-Nazis, apparently, that Trump has found ‚Äúsome fine people.‚ÄĚ

Others cite Trump‚Äôs sensational victory in the elections ‚Äď assuming that it wasn‚Äôt all the result of a Russian sting operation ‚Äď as proof of his political smarts. According to this view, all of Trump‚Äôs scandals, controversies, insults and inanities are but a ploy aimed at rallying his base, first to win the elections and then as leverage against the unruly Republican Party. Like a wolf in sheep‚Äôs clothing, Trump is a smart guy pretending to be a dunce. If that‚Äôs true, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu should be worried by Barak Ravid‚Äôs report on Wednesday that Trump told the United Nations' secretary general that the prime minister is more problematic that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. If Trump is a ‚Äúmoron,‚ÄĚ on the other hand, as Tillerson testified, then his words about Netanyahu should be taken as seriously as his assertions about Obama‚Äôs birth certificate, his support for Marine Le Pen in the French elections and his praise for the homicidal Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, who will have the privilege of hosting Trump next month.
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 10/06/17 03:10 AM


27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President

Get your copy today!

The consensus view of two dozen psychiatrists and psychologists that Trump is dangerously mentally ill and that he presents a clear and present danger to the nation and our own mental health.

This is not normal.

Since the start of Donald Trump‚Äôs presidential run, one question has quietly but urgently permeated the observations of concerned citizens: What is wrong with him? Constrained by the American Psychiatric Association‚Äôs ‚ÄúGoldwater rule,‚ÄĚ which inhibits mental health professionals from diagnosing public figures they have not personally examined, many of those qualified to answer this question have shied away from discussing the issue at all. The public has thus been left to wonder whether he is mad, bad, or both.

In THE DANGEROUS CASE OF DONALD TRUMP, twenty-seven psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mental health experts argue that, in Mr. Trump‚Äôs case, their moral and civic ‚Äúduty to warn‚ÄĚ America supersedes professional neutrality. They then explore Trump‚Äôs symptoms and potentially relevant diagnoses to find a complex, if also dangerously mad, man.

Philip Zimbardo and Rosemary Sword, for instance, explain Trump‚Äôs impulsivity in terms of ‚Äúunbridled and extreme present hedonism.‚ÄĚ Craig Malkin writes on pathological narcissism and politics as a lethal mix. Gail Sheehy, on a lack of trust that exceeds paranoia. Lance Dodes, on sociopathy. Robert Jay Lifton, on the ‚Äúmalignant normality‚ÄĚ that can set in everyday life if psychiatrists do not speak up.

His madness is catching, too. From the trauma people have experienced under the Trump administration to the cult-like characteristics of his followers, he has created unprecedented mental health consequences across our nation and beyond.


Has Todd contracted the madness?
Posted By: phill

Re: Popular Vote Loser News - 10/16/17 06:00 AM

An interesting read-

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...when-he-learns-what-his-policies-do.html
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 10/18/17 02:43 AM

What is the difference between Todd and Trump?

"... the reason we have a president increasingly isolated, ever more deranged, legislatively impotent, diplomatically catastrophic, and constitutionally dangerous, is not just because he is a ****ing moron requiring an adult day-care center to avoid catastrophe daily. It’s because he’s a reactionary fantasist, whose policies stir the emotions but are stalled in the headwinds of reality.

They are the unhinged fantasies of a 71-year-old Fox News viewer imagining he can reconstruct the late 1950s."

Answer - Age.

Andrew Sullivan: Trump’s Mindless Nihilism
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 10/19/17 07:00 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Popular Vote Loser News - 10/20/17 12:50 AM

Donald is a tortured soul

Who doesn't know how to console.

Kelly fed him words to say;

They didn't come out the right way.

Donald couldn't play his part:

He couldn't say them from the heart.

He only made the widow cry.

Then afterwards he tried to lie,

Claiming that he had not said

The very phrases that he read

From the script he was provided.

The whole maneuver was misguided.

Kelly speaking to the press

Tried to clean up Donald's mess

But it too then went awry,

For it proved Trump told a lie.

That Trump should lie is not bizarre:

Just think about the fake Renoir.

Lies are his modus operandi,

Always ready, always handy.
Posted By: hobie1616

Post-Trump de-Nazification - 10/21/17 01:40 AM

[Linked Image]

Post-Trump, the country needs its own, domestic version of the de-Nazification program established in Germany after World War II, an inquiry into how so many alleged neo-Nazi, white-supremacist sympathizers had input into this presidency, and their connection with neo-Nazi and nativist movements overseas. Trump has legitimized the hate militias like no president ever before, one of his many blighting legacies and perhaps his most lasting. The domestic threat posed by white-supremacist militias and other violent extremists armed to the steel teeth has been minimized by Republicans, who, jerked around by their Fox News puppet masters, prefer fulminating against Black Lives Matter and antifa street fighters. But white people’s grievances are always given precedence, reflecting the racial makeup of newsrooms and corporate hierarchies.

WILL WE EVER RETURN TO NORMAL AFTER TRUMP?
Posted By: hobie1616

Lyin' Donnie - 10/23/17 10:45 PM

In 263 days, President Trump has made 1,318 false and misleading claims

OCT 8 2017
‚ÄúSenator Bob Corker 'begged' me to endorse him for re-election in Tennessee. I said 'NO' and he dropped out (said he could not win without my endorsement.‚ÄĚ
Todd Womack, Corker's chief of staff, disputed each of the claims the president made in his tweets. Trump called Corker early last week and asked him to reconsider his decision not to seek reelection, according to Womack. He said the president also reaffirmed that he would have endorsed Corker had he decided to run again ‚ÄĒ which, Womack added, was not the first time that Trump had extended such an offer of support.

OCT 8 2017
“Our country has been unsuccessfully dealing with North Korea for 25 years, giving billions of dollars & getting nothing. Policy didn't work!
Under the Bill Clinton accord with North Korea, between 1995 and 2003 the United States spent about $400 million supplying the fuel oil to North Korea that was required under the deal. An international consortium spent about $2.5 billion to replace the North’s plutonium reactor with two light-water reactors; the project was not completed before the deal collapsed by the money mostly went to South Korean and Japanese companies, not North Korea. The United States stopped paying food assistance to North Korea after 2011, with the exception of $1 million in humanitarian aid in January 2017 that was negotiated by outgoing Secretary of State John Kerry just before Trump was inaugurated. Total food assistance since 1995 was about $700 million. George W. Bush in 2007-2008 provided about $150 million in fuel oil when engaged in negotiations.

There's a lot more...
Posted By: hobie1616

Trump Tower - 10/29/17 07:29 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

DO SOMETHING! - 10/30/17 03:48 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Doin' God's Work - 11/07/17 03:12 AM

Hans Fiene, a Lutheran pastor who is also a regular contributor to the right-wing website The Federalist, has written a new column in which he explains that allowing 26 people to die at the hands of a crazed gunman at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, this weekend was actually God’s way of answering their prayers. [...]

He then explains to liberals that it was part of God’s plan that over two dozen people would get shot up while in their own house of worship. [...]

‚ÄúSo when a madman with a rifle sought to persecute the faithful at First Baptist Church on Sunday morning, he failed,‚ÄĚ Fiene says. ‚ÄúJust like those who put Christ to death, and just like those who have brought violence to believers in every generation, this man only succeeded in being the means through which God delivered his children from this evil world into an eternity of righteousness and peace.‚ÄĚ
Posted By: hobie1616

Jared Grabs Some - 11/09/17 04:25 PM

Honka, honka?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: hobie1616

Gross Roy Moore - 11/14/17 02:54 AM

Our view: Roy Moore grossly unfit for office
By AL.com Editorial Board
on November 13, 2017 at 4:23 PM, updated November 13, 2017 at 4:51 PM

Roy Moore simply cannot be a U.S. Senator. Even if his party and many of its adherents still think it possible, it is unthinkable -- for his state, and his country.

Last week, four women described Moore's unseemly taste for dating high school girls when he was a single man in his 30s. Another described what can only be seen as a sexual assault on her when she was 14. In a radio interview last week, Moore himself suggested that he may have dated teenage women during his 30s, though he vehemently denied the claims made by these women.

Today, even as those women face disgusting attacks on their motives and credibility, a fifth brave Alabama woman stepped forward and described how when she was 16, Moore violently sexually assaulted her in his car. She said she felt it to be an attempted rape, and that it ended with her bruised from either falling from or being pushed from the car, with Moore warning her he was a powerful man and that no one would believe her if she told anyone.

The seriousness of these incidents cannot be overstated. They should not be parsed with talk of statutes of limitations or whether proof exists. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a consideration for the courtroom, not the ballot box. When choosing our representative before the rest of the world, character matters.

Nor should these women's statements be diminished because the incidents are decades old. If readers objectively look at the reality of life for sex assault victims - at the public doubt and vitriol they face - they'll understand why girls and women do not come forward readily, or early.

And sadly, the reactions of many over the past several days support modern understanding of women's reluctance to voice these things. They stayed quiet while Moore ascended in local and state politics, but they have spoken out as he seems on the verge of attaining national office. For that, Alabama and America owe them respect and appreciation.

We believe these women.

As a news organization, we have independently investigated as many of these claims as possible and have found no reason to doubt the accounts outlined in the Washington Post. If anything, the stories we've heard in Etowah County have only further corroborated them.

In our view, Moore has already revealed himself as grossly unfit to be a U.S. Senator before these revelations.

He has been twice-removed from statewide office for his defiance of the law. His views on women's rights, same-sex marriage and religious freedom no longer reflect the majority of Alabamians. And they are incompatible with the governance of this country. He has said that the murderous 9/11 attacks on America and the tragic school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut may have been God's will because America had sinned.

Investigations into Moore's nonprofit the Foundation of Moral Law, have revealed a man who champions himself above all else. Above Alabamians. And, yes, above God. Moore has used his platform to personally enrich himself and his family and to pursue his own, radical agenda.

As each day passes, more Republicans, including Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Sen. Lindsay Graham, Louisiana's Senator Bill Cassidy, and many others, have stated Roy Moore simply cannot be a U.S. Senator.

It's time that he and his party read the writing on the wall: His candidacy is over. His true character has been revealed. It's time for the GOP to remove its official support.

And since he and his party can't assure it, the voters of Alabama must.
Posted By: phill

Re: Gross Roy Moore - 11/17/17 04:41 AM

"many others, have stated Roy Moore simply cannot be a U.S. Senator."
What a load of rubbish, of course he can. He is perfectly qualified.
Posted By: hobie1616

Spectacular Accumulation of Lies - 11/17/17 06:00 PM

Lies on disclosure forms. Lies at confirmation hearings. Lies on Twitter. Lies in the White House briefing room. Lies to the FBI. Self-protective lies by the attorney general. Blocking and tackling lies by Vice President Pence. This is, with a few exceptions, a group of people for whom truth, political honor, ethics and integrity mean nothing.

What are the implications? President Trump and others in his administration are about to be hit by a legal tidal wave. We look at the Russia scandal and see lies. A skilled prosecutor sees leverage. People caught in criminal violations make more cooperative witnesses. Robert S. Mueller III and his A-team of investigators have plenty of stupidity and venality to work with. They are investigating an administration riven by internal hatreds ‚ÄĒ also the prosecutor‚Äôs friend. And Trump has already alienated many potential allies in a public contest between himself and Mueller. A number of elected Republicans, particularly in the Senate, would watch this showdown with popcorn.

But the implications of all this are not only legal and political. We are witnessing what happens when right-wing politics becomes untethered from morality and religion.

The Russia investigation’s spectacular accumulation of lies
Posted By: hobie1616

Will Roy Moore Bring Back Stoning? - 11/19/17 02:38 PM

Garrison Keillor has some interesting thoughts.

The triumph of Judge Roy Moore in Alabama's Republican Senate primary was a ray of sunshine for those of us who'd like to restore stoning to our legal system and remove the curse of profanity once and for all from our country. Scripture is very clear: "Thou shalt not swear." But God's chosen party, the Republican Party, has waffled on this issue, as it has on the issue of adultery and obedience to parents and observance of the Sabbath and the engraving industry. And that is why our country today is on the verge of destruction. The signs are everywhere. Judge Moore is the only man who dares say so.

Beatitudes v. Ten Commandments...

Democrats are fine with the Beatitudes -- "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" and all that -- but blessing people is no substitute for upholding God's standards, and there are people in spiritual poverty who express that by taking the Lord's name in vain, or by shopping on Sunday, or disobeying their parents, or by coveting their neighbor's wife, and if we don't punish sin, then sin will overrun the nation, as it has done already. That is why Judge Moore is not a Beatitudes guy but a Ten Commandments man. The law is the law.

Population control…

Let us be honest here. There are too many people in this country. You know it and I know it. When we reduce the excess population by stoning and become a nation of 10 or 15 million, this country will be a paradise. You'll be able to drive and not languish in traffic. No waiting for tee times. Our enemies will be gone, all of them, bonked to death, and we will gain their homes and their wives and their cleaning ladies. It will be perfect.

[url=http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/09/garrison_keillor_maybe_roy_moo.html]Full article...
Posted By: hobie1616

Question Of The Day - 11/28/17 12:27 AM

What's worse to have in Congress, a child molester or a Democrat?

The question posed by the election is apparently, for Republicans, existential. Both Roy Moore supporters and Roy Moore detractors in the party have framed the political debate as a clear choice: Would you rather have an actual child molester in office‚ÄĒor someone from the other party? This is apparently a profound and difficult choice. Republican leaders and functionaries continue to be at odds with each other over whether installing a child molester and serial predator as their newest Republican senator would be worth it if the child molester is willing to vote with the party to cut corporate taxes.

You would think that this is a joke, or a philosophical what-if scenario presented to demonstrate to students what true public corruption looks like. Nope. Alabama Republican leaders and supposed "evangelical" Moore backers alike are all struggling with whether Child Molestation Is Really That Bad, if it helps cement party or church power. Those people are monsters.
Posted By: hobie1616

You're An Idiot - 11/29/17 07:17 PM

If you‚Äôre a Republican voter, I have some bad news for you. The people who lead the movement that supposedly represents your views ‚ÄĒ the politicians, the media figures, the activists ‚ÄĒ think you‚Äôre an idiot. In fact, they count on it.

That’s