Questions??????

Sounds like the F16 is a great boat! We raced with one this past wkend and it looked like something we could have a lot of fun with. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We weight about 255 together. So we have to carry weight and are unable to right our H20 unless the wind helps alot. My Skipper also has a H17 to sail alone. What are the opinions on selling both boats and getting a F16? How does it sail with light weight crew? What kind of wind could we expect to sail in and still control the boat? (Skipper has 25+ yrs exp and crew 1 yr) How much does a new one run? Any other information or suggestions are welcome.
Thanks-and great sailing!

You may find many of your questions answered on the following (archived) posts:

Post 1

Post2

You'll need 170 lbs (+/- 5 lbs depending on wind) to right the Blade. I'm just at 170 lbs and use Tom Shannon's ATRS (Alabama Trash Righting System....a large commercial trash bag) that I fill with water (several gallons or you risk bursting the bag) pulled onto your lap and Voila' ... a righted cat.

You can contact VectorWorks Marine, to inquire about current pricing ...321-269-8444. Ask for Matt McDonald.

For the Taipan you can contact Jill Nickerson, 727-734-0799, at Sun and Fun. They distribute the AHPC Taipan in N.A.

These are the two most popular F16's in the U.S.


If you live in FL, there is the Alter Area D qualifier this weekend in Gulfport (St. Petersburg) where several Blades and Taipans will be competing (F16 class) as well as other classes.

I was a previous H17 sailor and chose the F16 class based upon flexibility of sailing uni or sloop. In the US we use the same Portsmouth rating for both. In uni-mode we fly a main and spi', for sloop a main, jib and spi'.

There is no minimum crew weight:

1.9 Minimum weight of the crew


1.9.1 There will be no other restrictions on crew weight apart from the requirement that the crew weight must be sufficient to right the boat unaided under all encountered sailing conditions.


Others more experienced with wind conditions can best answer your questions about controlability of the boat.

Joanna,
You and L.O. would be a good fit on the F16. No minimum crew weight, but lots of performance. I can't really speak to doublehanding the F16, as I sail it uni 95% of the time, but it seems to take a breeze pretty well. The controls for depowering (downhaul, outhaul, mast rotation) all work very well as the mast is fairly flexible and sail shape is pretty changeable. I guarantee you'd feel more comfortable in high winds than on the H20 - only because of your combined crew weight.

I like the boat because I can sail uni or double and it is fast enough for distance racing. It gives me a lot of options. It would replace the functionality of the single hander and a double hander you mentioned.

BTW, I stuck around Sunday and let multiple skippers take the F16 out for a ride. The breeze built to a "fun" level, but not overpowering. I did not leave the club until dark. Pictures to be coming soon. I should have done a better job of getting you guys out on the boat before you left for home.

Hope to have an F16 fleet next year at a couple of events at BSC. There is discussion of few more F16s showing up (permanently) over the winter/spring. We'd love to put in a multi boat order and have an "assembly party".

Thanks for all the feed back-it will help in the decision.

Tom-maybe we can head back down and try it out-sorry we missed the chance Sunday. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Keep us posted on any races you have at BSC-it's close and we would love to come. Had a great time at CatCappers!

A lot of speak of awesome controls and smooth sailing. The f16, specifically the blades (I am sure it applies to the Taipans as well) have better de powerability as well.

It is amazing. Reminds me of the sailing clinic we had. First day there it started blowing probably 12 to 15kts. Single handed it becomes a busy boat if powered up too much. Just a little mast rotation out and the boat will settle beautifully.

At 255lbs sloop rigged, you will be on the lighter side of the spectrum. So it will be imperative you learn how to de-power the rig in high winds. Max downhaul (get the 12:1) max mainsheet (get the 8:1) mast rotation out and YOU will be flying crazy fast!

I'll keep you guys posted on how things develop this winter. There are more and more used boats on the market, too.

We are really going to put an effort in rejuvenating the BSC fleet in 2007 (an event in May and Oct that we will try to have big cat fleets). I've talked to four or five sailors that used to be active, got out of sailing for a while and are ready to come back - but they want a more versatile boat (no crew, want spin, something to sail with kids, etc.). It seems like we all took a break and now are ready to start sailing again - but our boats don't match our needs.

Anytime you guys want to come down, we can go for a sail. The boat looks very sharp in doublehanded mode (and is probably a more effective racer once it gets to trapezing wind conditions).

www.formula16.org
www.ahpc.com
www.bladecatamarans.com
www.vectorworkssail.com
www.stealthmarine.co.uk

are all good websites with lots of information on the class and options for boats.

Shoot me an email with your contact info, tbshannon[at]charter.net, and I'll be sure to get you on the spam (kidding) list.

Tom you may want to change that link www.ahpc.com to www.ahpc.com.au

Wouter

Taipan is a very smooth boat too.

I agree that at 255 lbs you'll have gobs of power sailing sloop. In fact, in conditions over 15 knots just leave the jib on the beach. I've sailed 2-up as a uni-rig plus spin and it's a blast. You'll be able to double trap upwind at 255 in 15 knots easily.

I fully agree with the comments of the others. Especially Robi's advice is good when considering your crew make-up.

It is my opinion that if you two are currently sailing the H20 then the F16 will be a noticeable improvement. Yes you are a light crew, but the H20 should be noticeable less suited to that then the F16.

One trick is to order the boat with a mainsail cut for your combined crew weight (or just a little above it). This can not be done with the H20. The result will be more controllable boat and one that is easy to depower for you. It all dependent on sailing skill but with sufficient amounts of it available I really don't see why you'll need to back off were you would be comfortable with either the H17 ot H20. Several of us singlehand the F16 to in the 20 knot wing range. And that includes setting the spinnaker. Just adjust the boat to suit your weight and body make-up, something that is fully possible under the Formula rule set. There are no class rules preventing such modifications, so make full use of them. Actually one result of this is that both light and heavy crews are more comparable in performance with these mods. Heavy crews can use them to power the boat up a little more and ligther crews can use them to depower it some more.

The F16 will be easily righted by your 255 lbs with only a righting rope. I weight 195 lbs (=88 kg)and I right it singlehandedly unaided in even the most difficult conditions (flat water, no wind). Additionally no weight needs to be carried by you.

The F16 will totally replace the H17 and H20. It will be an improvement over both in several aspects. Moving it about on the beach and putting it on the trailer will be one. Stepping the mast another. If one suddenly decided to stay on the beach then that is okay as there will be no need to rig (or bring) the other boat.

It will certainly be cheaper then maintaining two seperate boats.



If you are contacting Jill Nickerson about the Taipan design then ask her about the Viper F16. This Viper F16 is the official replacement of the Taipan design by the builder AHPC. See my other posting for more info. It will be significantly cheaper then a new Taipan and will feature all kinds of things not found standard on the Taipan. It is expected to be better suited to F16 sailing then the Taipan. Having said this, as a second hand option the Taipan should still be high on your list.


In the way of second hand options there are Taipans, Stealth and a (demo) Blade on offer. Especially the second hand Stealth is attractively priced right now. Ask Eric Poulsen for more info if interested.


But as my last comment is reserved for the best advice I have. Test sail the boats yourself and ask the owner to show you the different controls and have him show their effect. Flip the boat intentionally and right it yourself. Only then will you know exactly what can be expected and whether you are willing to invest in it.

Best of luck !

Wouter

Wouter you weigh 195KG? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Talk about a fatty! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Ooops,

Has been corrected now, thank God for the edit button ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now if God can make the US change over the international metric system as well then it will just be perfect.

Wouter

Does this rule mean that you need to be able to right without the aid of a righting bag? Just curious about Rules.

This question can best be answered by quoting the full section on righting and crew weight



1.8 Righting

1.8.1 It is the responsibility of the crew to ensure that the boat is equipped with a righting system that will enable the crew to right the boat without outside assistance.

1.8.2 The Formula 16 Class Authority may demand that a crew demonstrate their ability to right their boat, but only at a time when doing so does not directly affect the fairness of racing.



1.9 Minimum weight of the crew

1.9.1 There will be no other restrictions on crew weight apart from the requirement that the crew
weight must be sufficient to right the boat unaided under all encountered sailing conditions.



So if your weight is insufficient to right the boat then you are allowed to correct this by implementing a different righting system that does allow you to right the boat with your given crew weight unaided.

That makes sense. Thanks!