F-16HP/F-18HT Cooperation

I am distressed by all the negative comments on the old forum, particularly those directly attacking the F-18HT boats, the F-18HT Class, and individuals. The majority of the negative comments come from one source and I think everyone is familiar with this poster. I trust that the rest of the F-16HP class will try to place a more positive light on all the new lightweight formula classes.



I propose that the F-18HT and F-16HP classes work together to build their respective classes. The class should appeal to two distinct groups of sailor, and therefore not compete but cooperate.



I have previously e-mailed several F16HP advocates and expressed my willingness to work together. I recommended that the class share a common race circuit and North American Championship, if their memberships wished. I offered the space in the F-18HT trailer when room allowed. I offered the use of the digital scale, which I recently ordered, to weigh their class boats.



To date the main response has come from Stealth Marine. The Stealth folks seem sincere in their desire to work together. I find their response encouraging. How does the rest of your class feel?

I will not reply to W.F. post directly yet and only after the US sailors have reacted.



I do however confirm that :



- W.F. has indeed e-mailed me and proposed to work together, I've fowarded this message to the class heads of each region : UK, Aus, US, NL (myself ofcourse). I'm waiting for the last class head to reply.



- W.F. did propose to combine our cirquits; I've forwarded this to Kirt (US class) and leave it to him as he is the local class head for the US and is/has made up the US list of races.



- I don't recall W.F. offering us space in his trailor. I will look this up in my e-mail history and get back to you on this.



- I'm sure that W.F. did not offer us the use of the digital scale, but again I will check and get back to you on this.



- Indeed no big response was send to W.F. on his proposals, reason I'm waiting for the last local class head to reply. And indeed my personal feelings with respect to the mails and concerns. I can't speak for Stealth marine in this respect, I leave that to John himself.





I would like to underline that each local class is independent of the main body (and me ! ) as longs as the class rules are uphold. You as the US group have the right to decide on cooperation with F18HT as the local US class. Ofcourse for the F16HP class as a whole more is needed, that is only logical.



Furthermore I will not interfere in any way with the local class way of doing things provided that it doesn't go against the class rules.



So if you want to take W.F. up on his offers, do so.



Wouter

Wouter,



I stand corrected with regard to my offering the use of the digital scales to the class trhough you. owever, I have discussed it with former Taipan 4.9 owner and F16HP class avocate, Peter Cogan. I just recently ordered the scales and did not write you directly to offer their use, as you have not been responding to my e-mails regarding interclass cooperation.

I did however offer the spots, when available, on the trailer. I thought that if the classes chose to share circuit events, then it would make sense to fill the trailer with F-16HPs if space was available.

Perhaps, class coexistence can be discussed further at the Spring Fever Regatta?

Wouter and the F-16HP Class,



After rechecking my first post, I confirmed that I did not state that I had made the offer of the scales and etc directly to Wouter. I initially recommended class cooperation and a common circuit to Wouter (via several e-mails), however his lack of response and anti-F18HT post prompted me to speak (e-mail) other class members. Please review my first post on this subject (an excerpt is found below):



"I have previously e-mailed several F16HP advocates and expressed my willingness to work together. I recommended that the class share a common race circuit and North American Championship, if their memberships wished. I offered the space in the F-18HT trailer when room allowed. I offered the use of the digital scale, which I recently ordered, to weigh their class boats. "



I remain in favor of this type of cooperation and coexistence, however I chose not to work with Wouter in any way. He is far to controversal and his reputation for negativity could damage any class associated with him. Several members of our group have expressed concern about being associated with Wouter, as well. Wouter and the folks who respond to his negativity (take the bait) are responsible for the current state of the old forum, in my opinion. Heck, I am often goated by his attacks into responding myself. I have decided that from this day forth, not to post on the old forum except to link to the new forums.



Thank you Rick and Mary for this new forum format. I feel that its format should keep things more positive. This sport needs more positives!



Fortunately, Kirt, Stealth Marine, and others seem willing to foster a relationship between the 18HT and the 16HP Classes. I see this as a positive!

WF-

As the U.S. "spearhead" person for the F16 HP class I responded almost instantly (next day) to your personal note to me regarding class cooperation. In fact- Here's a copy of what I sent you-



W.F.

Happy New Year's! Thanks for your note. I am interested in cooperation between all the Formula classes and certainly see obvious reasons our two classes should cooperate. I think setting up a "circuit" is an excellent idea and something I proposed for our class quite awhile ago, including setting up a "Formula Circuit" for any/all interested Formula classes. Due to distances I think having "Regional" Circuits is probably the way to go, with integration between the "Regions" to avoid conflicts if possible.

I'm located in Arkansas so quite a ways from you so would probably be in a different "Region" from you but an "Eastern Region Circuit" perhaps set up by yourself would be great and I'll be happy to work on a "Central region circuit" if desired.

If you are asking about the Taipan class (or F16 HP?)- I am planning to attend Spring Fever and bring another Taipan from Texas, we have one from OH, one from MI and at least two (perhaps up to 5) from Florida plus the Guck demo. there-

I think Wouter is concerned the F18HT will "steal" potential F16 HP sailors- Not sure how to address this w/ him- Although the boats are similar they ARE different and should appeal to different people.



Regards,

Kirt



I have not posted anything negative about the 18 HT and I hope you know me well enough to know I do NOT post "anon" messages-

There DOES appear to be someone posting "negative" messages about cetain classes and also posting notes about other boats and implying or using an alias that would SUGGEST they are a Taipan owner or F 16HP sailor-

Obviously, that's the problem w/ the anon posters- NO way to find out who they are OR anything about them- They could be anyone w/ any kind of agenda using an alias to discredit the "group" they seem to be speaking for.

Anyway, I am (and always have been), in favor of ALL the "Formula" type (I include the "A", "C", and Tornado also) boats working together in the U.S. (Won't speak about elsewhere)-

I look forward to our cooperation and mutual respect in the coming year-



Kirt

Kirt,



Thanks for you post! Yes, you are one of the positives, as I indicated in my previous post-



"Fortunately, Kirt, Stealth Marine, and others seem willing to foster a relationship between the 18HT and the 16HP Classes. I see this as a positive!"



I think that the Spring Fever Regatta could be an excellent opportuntiy for membership from both classes to meet and discuss our futures. I must state that I do not intend to be the F-18HT Class Commodore (or Chairman etc) and feel that there are several individuals within our group better suited than I. I am simply one of the founding members and a TEMPORARY spokesman. However, I will continue, as a class member, to support cooperation between our classes!



As far as anon posters attacking various class, Wouter is not anonomous and he is the one attacking our class, almost singlehandedly! Please review the old forum and decide for yourself who is initiating the negativity. It goes like this, Wouter makes an inflamatory post, then other (mostly anon) posters retailiate. It is a horrible situation! If Wouter would be positive in his post, then everyone would benefit!



I look forward to meeting you soon.



Sail Fast and Light,



W.F.

I did not find an e-mail where he propose either the scales or the room in his trailor directly to me. Ofcourse I can't speak for the mails he send to the others.



About Peter Cogan, I was not aware that held any official rank in either the F16HP or the F16HP USA organisations.



W.F. did propose combining race cirquits as I already indicated in me first reply.



The offers were make on the 26 of December 2001, just two weeks ago.



I am sure that coexistance can be discussed further at the spring fever regatta and W.F. may choose who he sees fit as the F16 HP respresentative.



I will not interfere in this matter as my posts on the old forum are made on my personal title and the F16 HP class is not linked to this.

I am excited about the idea of the F16HP class. I will be receiving my 4.9 in a few days and really look forward to sailing it against other makes with basically the same rating. I like sailing "open" Portsmouth already because of the variety of boats and the challenge to try and beat a particular boat that is strong on a prticular point of sail (long distance stuff), especially if that is my (and my boat's) weak point.



I will try and participate as much as possible in races and offer assistance in getting others interested in the class. One of the main reasons is that you all are very positive. No need to bash. You know the saying - if you have nothing good to say don't say anything.



Again - can't wait to sail my 4.9. We have 10-15 knots predicted Sunday with temperatures up to 77 degrees F. Saturday is 10 knots. COME ON 4.9!!!!!!!