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New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues

Posted By: CaptainKirt

New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 03:01 AM

Seems this forum has turned into largely a Blade forum these days, and that is fine, but there still are a few of us Taipan sailors around and many of us race as F16's. Apparently the Taipan 4.9 class (in Australia at least, which essentially is the class) has voted to adopt a new square top mainsail. I don't have the exact dimensions right now but just eyeballing it I would say it is very similar to the current Blade main. The issue is this-
For those of us with Taipan 4.9's if we "upgrade" to what is now a "class legal" mainsail but do NOT "upgrade" to a new, self-tacker jib what will be our status sailing as an F16?? For point of reference the current class legal jib is too large to technically fit the F16 rules, BUT if one is using a "class legal" 4.9 mainsail the jib is allowed (since the original main is smaller than the maximum I believe and definitely has a small squarehead). For me, since I largely sail uni anyway probably won't make a difference most of the time but for those rare occasions when I do bring crew will I have to use my "old style" mains or can I use a "new" style main with my original (and still class legal) jib??

Discussion??

Kirt
Posted By: Robi

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 03:50 AM

Kirt, I am sure us F16 sailors in FL wont care. I think the changes are too small to seriously affect how the boat reacts. This is an assumption, please correct me if I am wrong.

Me personally, I wont care. The more on the line the better. I usually have the mind set of "Run what you brung"

Is there really a 4.9 class in the US?
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 04:09 AM

Quote
Is there really a 4.9 class in the US?


From Portsmouth ratings

Taipan 4.9 Slp no spi T4.9 68.2 72.7 70.6 67.5 64.9
Taipan 4.9 Uni no spi 1-up T4.9U 69.4 73.5 71.4 68.8 65.9

The kicker is "For Taipan 4.9 spi, see F16" so what do you do?

Kirt,

We're considering coming down for Sand Snakes to get some practice in for a young lady sailing in the Women's nationals. Will you be in town that weekend? Would like to get a firsthand look at the Taipan. If so PM me please.
Posted By: Robi

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 04:21 AM

John, just because there is a DPN number does not necessarily mean there is a class per say.

I know there is a good amount of taipans around, but they are scattered all around the US. So I am sure the T4.9 running stock jib with F16 mainsail should NOT have a problem.

Just use the f16 rating two or one up.
Posted By: ratherbsailing

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 04:45 AM

here are the measurements for new sail Hi Taipan sailors,

Below are the new measurements for the big head main that were voted into the Taipan 4.9 class rules. The change will take effect 18 months after the results of the vote were accepted. If you are looking to purchase a new big head sail please consider AHPC www.ahpc.com.au or Ashby Sails www.ashbysails.com who regularly support Australian Taipan sailing and TCAA fundraising efforts. AHPC have already began testing and development of the new sail plan.

Happy sailing - Kings

Hi Kings,
The following are the restrictions for the big head main as I sent through to Dennis last March.
They are slightly different to the original proposed measurements back in 2005.
The new measurements bring the sail area very close to the F16 sail area. This is about a 1% increase in area over the old Taipan mainsail area.

Regards,
Greg


The new restrictions for the bighead mainsail are set out below
I have also increased the maximum luff length of the sail as this can easily be accommodated by having a 50mm cut out at the head of the sail, exactly the same as the A-Class, Mosquito and F18. This brings the head of the mainsail almost level with the top of the mast. With this configuration the clew will also be 30 - 40mm higher allowing more room for mainsheet systems, mast rake and the skipper.

The changes to the restrictions for the mainsail would be; (the old restrictions are shown in red).

d. MAINSAIL:

ix. The top of the sail shall not exceed (400) 950mm measured perpendicular to the head.

x. At a point on the leech 1000mm down from the head, the nearest point on the luff shall be not more than 790mm distant including the bolt rope.- DELETED

xi. Measured to include the bolt rope:
At the 1/4 leech point, the nearest point on the luff shall be not more than (2090) 2015mm distant.
At the 1/2 leech point, the nearest point on the luff shall be not more than (1820) 1780mm distant.
At the 3/4 leech point, the nearest point on the luff shall be not more than (1260) 1410mm distant.
At the 7/8 leech point, the nearest point on the luff shall be not more than 1095mm distant.

The 1/2 leech point shall be found by folding the head to clew and smoothing the sail flat.
The 1/4 and 3/4 leech points shall be found by folding the clew and the head to the 1/2 leech point and smoothing the sail flat.
The 7/8 leech point shall be found by folding the head to the 3/4 leech point and smoothing the sail flat.

xii. The distance from the head to the clew shall be not more than (7940) 7950 mm
xiii. The distance from the clew to the tack shall be not more than (2150) 2100mm measured to include the bolt rope.

xiv. The foot round, when smoothed out for measurement, shall be a maximum of (75) 50mm.

15. MAST
f. Measurement bands shall be painted round the mast such that the inner distance between bands is not greater than (8050) 8100mm. Measurement bands shall be in a colour contrasting with that of the spar and have a minimum width of 25mm.


Attached picture 106958-TaipanBigHeadDevelopmentApr2007003.jpg
Posted By: ejpoulsen

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 04:47 AM

Quote
John, just because there is a DPN number does not necessarily mean there is a class per say.

I know there is a good amount of taipans around, but they are scattered all around the US. So I am sure the T4.9 running stock jib with F16 mainsail should NOT have a problem.

Just use the f16 rating two or one up.


My feeling is that not having a self-tacking jib and having a narrower boat are penalties to the T4.9. I think using the new main and the old jib would be perfectly fine and fair. It will be a liability in heavy air and downwind but a slight advantage upwind or reaching in light air. This issue probably affects only a small handful of us scattered across the US.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 08:38 AM



Put in a formal request to the F16 governing council to formulate an official response to this matter. That is the only way to be sure. Personally I say bring what you got and race but official class policy can easily differ from this for very good reasons. Afterall at one point the class needs to draw a line.

Wouter
Posted By: Buccaneer

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/05/07 12:55 PM

Shouldn't be a problem, that is unless you start winning. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've got the new set-up and when sailed correctly the newly approved main is an nice enhancement, especially when sailing solo. Highly recommended… <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 09:20 AM



Interesting enough, we all have been sailing with the "new setup" for several years now. Eric's mainsail, which he uses for singlehanded racing, is actually an Ashby sail that predates the "new Taipan prototype".

I think most of us have been recommending the new setup for several years now. But it is nice to see the Taipan sailors discovering the benefits of something that got us kicked out of the Taipan class several years ago.

Wouter
Posted By: mattaipan

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 10:16 AM

Just let it go Wouter.

I don't know why at every opportunity you feel the need to stick the boot in to the Taipan class, you've got your class and they've got theirs, why not just leave it at that.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 10:55 AM

Quote

I don't know why at every opportunity you feel the need to stick the boot in to the Taipan class,


Because at alot of opportunities they had felt the need to do so to me.

Point in case ; see the daggerboard discussion of only days ago.

Why not just call the Taipan mainsail what it really is. An F16 mainsail. Prototyping was done in the F16 class against some great adversity when it wasn't fashionable to explore such a "novel" idea.

I do indeed think it to be funny for a Taipan sailor to "highly recommend" the "new" mainsail design to sailors who have actually already sailed with such a sail for several years now.

Don't you see the irony in that situation. You guys are catching up, not "prototyping". All rebranding aside.

Wouter
Posted By: mattaipan

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 11:29 AM

Why not think for a moment that the Taipan sailor isn't recommending the sail to you, but to others who are sailing Taipans with the original main, either as the OD or the F16.

Call the main anything you want, I'm sure thats nothing to do with the issue anyway, we refer to it as new as it is new to the Taipan class.

And sorry their not catching up, they were never behind. Catching up to whom? Another class? Their racing as a OD design and to their yardstick. I don't think theres any need to feel they have to catch up with another class or compare themselves to another classes.

The class has made the decision to modernise the rig, and if you want to say with an F16 main, thats fine, no worries I don't see any problem with that, or feel the need to take a swipe at the class at the same time.
Posted By: fin.

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 11:48 AM

Quote
Seems this forum has turned into largely a Blade forum these days, and that is fine, but there still are a few of us Taipan sailors around and many of us race as F16's. Apparently the Taipan 4.9 class (in Australia at least, which essentially is the class) has voted to adopt a new square top mainsail. I don't have the exact dimensions right now but just eyeballing it I would say it is very similar to the current Blade main. The issue is this-
For those of us with Taipan 4.9's if we "upgrade" to what is now a "class legal" mainsail but do NOT "upgrade" to a new, self-tacker jib what will be our status sailing as an F16?? For point of reference the current class legal jib is too large to technically fit the F16 rules, BUT if one is using a "class legal" 4.9 mainsail the jib is allowed (since the original main is smaller than the maximum I believe and definitely has a small squarehead). For me, since I largely sail uni anyway probably won't make a difference most of the time but for those rare occasions when I do bring crew will I have to use my "old style" mains or can I use a "new" style main with my original (and still class legal) jib??

Discussion??

Kirt


I agree with Wout for the most. Just go sailing and enjoy! If it ever becomes an issue the class can address it at that time.

You'll be glad to know Taipans outnumbered Blades at GYC yesterday.
Posted By: Buccaneer

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 12:39 PM

Hey Dude lighten up a little.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> The Taipan has always been on the cutting edge and with the updated main remains so. That should not detract from the F16 project. Besides I thought the mainsails you guys were using required a Halyard? The Taipan main needs no stinking Halyard.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Mary

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 01:43 PM

Quote
The Taipan main needs no stinking Halyard

We had to put a halyard on our 4.9. Too hard to get the sail up without it. And too hard to get the sail down, if you need to, out on the water. Maybe it's just us <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> -- but I think a lot of A-cat sailors use halyards, too.
Posted By: tback

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 02:22 PM

Quote

You'll be glad to know Taipans outnumbered Blades at GYC yesterday.


Sorry I couldn't join you, Pete, I'm about 300 sf into a 1000 sf DIY hardwood flooring job. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fin.

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 02:35 PM

Quote
Quote

You'll be glad to know Taipans outnumbered Blades at GYC yesterday.


Sorry I couldn't join you, Pete, I'm about 300 sf into a 1000 sf DIY hardwood flooring job. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


A blessing on your house. You'll need it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

btw- Don't read this Beth! Found a new crew we can pass around! Beth is a GYC stalwart, but didn't have any spinnaker experience, so she asked me for a ride! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Making the story short, she got an awful flogging. I had let the starboard rachet jam and she labored through the last two races. Didn't get it sorted out 'til the racing was over. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Nevertheless, she was still smiling and asking for more!
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 04:36 PM

To Matt and others who are indeed taking some abuse from me on this issue.

I'm fully aware that I'm a jerk on this issue and I'm not really proud of that either. It would indeed be alot better if I would be very positive in my replies to this but I just can't bring myself to that. The frustrations of past experiences now combined with the introduction of the "new" Taipan mainsail design is just too much. And I'm only human.

So I guess I'm just asking for a little forgiveness on this issue of my persona, knowing that I can never bring myself to view the upgrades to the Taipan OD class as something that was already done years ago by people who got burned by it at the time. Maybe I do expect somebody to come along and say to us :"you guys were on to a good thing back then, to bad the time wasn't ripe for it". That would be the truth and would acknowlegde the fact that the real trail blazing and prototyping was done much earlier by a different group of people. Who, I may add, were predominately Taipan sailors. And even we stole a good portion of the development from the A's and the F18's. But it is better that I do not rehash that again.


Quote

And sorry their not catching up, they were never behind. Catching up to whom? Another class? Their racing as a OD design.



But the real point here is that if this upgrade was done a few years earlier then the Taipan class could have broken through internationally. The Aussie Taipan sailors hung the non-aussie Taipan sailors out the dry. In in some cases they hung individual persons out to dry. The Taipan mainsail was most definately falling behind, the same with some other aspect, mostly to the F18 class and the A's.

Now all the reasons against the upgrade still apply but this time it did not proved to be a block to introducing it. I know, not all things go ahead when it is best timewise, but if only this change could have happened a little bit earlier.

You know I'm really not slacking on the Taipan design or its class racing. I love the boat and the design concepts enclosed in it. My frustration comes from missing this golden opportunity to make the Taipan a truly international class and having great racing world wide. From the fact that the upgrades that could have made the design break through internationally were a serious taboe several years back but now when the race internationally is all but completely lost the Australian class decides to go ahead with it.

I think the upgrade to be a very good one. I know very well what the benefits are and indeed one side of me is thrilled to see the Taipan class incorporating it. It is just the other side of me that only sees the score of missed opportunities. And there were quite a few, several of which are not public knowlegde yet. So please forgive from being torn on this issue and for the fact that I'm unable to see the Taipan class developments exclusively in a positive light.

I really don't mean to be bad juju about it but on the other side I just can't help it. Not enough water under bridge yet I guess.

I hope you understand.

I will now shut-up about it.


Wouter
Posted By: mattaipan

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/06/07 08:23 PM

Wouter

Thats probably the best post written by you, I've probably read to date. I've said all along that I'm most definately not, in anyway, anti F16. But as you would do, and I see you do, I will stand up and defend my chosen class.

Wouter, you guys were on to a good thing back then, too bad the time wasn't right for it.

I will shut up about it now.
Posted By: Marcus F16

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/07/07 06:09 AM

I think this forum needs a "handshake" option icon !!!
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/07/07 10:13 AM



Thank you, very much indeed.

Handshake ?

Wouter
Posted By: mattaipan

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/07/07 10:34 AM

My hand is pointing at the screen now.

My Wife has a puzzled look on her face. But anything to do with boats or sailing seems to do that anyway.

Regards
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/07/07 10:35 AM




Shaking ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/07/07 11:39 AM

All this warmth and humility is making me feel gooey <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />.

After finding out that the "New" main had been passed, I wondered how long it would be before the subject of the Taipan Australia class standard jib being to big would come up. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I had put off bringing it up myself.

In OZ I don't see it being a problem until the numbers of F16 build up, after all the difference in performance is mainly 2 sail reaching I think <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.

Actualy it will be interesting to see if Yachting Vic. change the yardstick for the Taipan, again this would be unlikely as the yardstick people don't seem to have been keeping up with things in recent years. But it is possible that a Taipan sloop with spinnaker adjustment added, could be rated faster than F16 if they moved the Sloop yardstick down any further <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/09/07 10:49 AM

Forget warm and fuzzy, I’ll say it…….

Wouter, you really are unit. Tell me why the Taipan class should change its rules for you and bring the boat up to full F16 spec whilst turning its back on all its current members. It is more than just a main sail. It is a new self tacking jib, spinnaker kit, carbon mast, wider beams, new tramp, new side stays, bridle, fore stay.

The Taipan class does not want a kite. This boat is used by many whom introduce young and new sailors into cat racing who are not comfortable or able to use a spinnaker. It has been a very successful introduction and development class for young sailors whilst also offering high quality racing for all members.

You were obviously not involved in the class in OZ or understand the scene, but where an outsider looking in wishing to change things for their own personal needs….. Very selfish.

I believe AHPC developing a totally new class and leaving the 4.9 class to progress at the rate it’s members wish too is a much better solution for all except for you, because you already had taipan hulls.

Just build a bridge and get over it Wouter. You went to them with an idea and they did not see it was in the best interests of the class, which is well within their rights. You do not have the right to force the Taipan class members into accepting your changes to the class.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/09/07 11:38 AM

Stephen,

How do you feel about that new Tornado setup ?

What an a$$holes Booth and Bundock were for pushing those changes through against the will of the Tornado class members !

The Tornado class would be so much better of without that Olympic slot and an active European Tornado market. Then all those budget tight backwater sailors could still affort to keep the class active.

And the new carbon mast what is that all about ? Forcing all those class members to buy new masts !

What is the world coming to ? If we are not careful then they will even put spinnakers on hobie 16 's !

ehhh ... ?

But thank God that the Taipan class will stick to the old setup despite all the "heads-up's" pointing in the other direction. I'm so glad the model T-fords held out when the newer models of the competition were launched. They surely showed how to keep an active following alive.


Stephen, I said it years ago and I'll say it again. In todays sailing scene dominated by development and formula setups, staying stagnant equals inviting extinction. If the Australian Taipan class members think THAT to be the best class policy then the best of luck to them. The intermediate result so far is that Taipan class is dead in all regions except Australia. What a fool I am to think that continuing this policy is a dangerous proposition.

How is the Taipan OD sailing in NSW ? Fricking booming right ? Right ?

And whats up with AHPC bringing out a 16 foot competitor to their own Taipan 4.9 design ?

Does anybody else spot the writing on the wall ?

And it is my full right to feel that way and to say that in public forums without asking the approval of the Aussie Taipan sailors or even you.


P.S.

Come to think of it, Maybe you are right afterall Stephen. Since "the boat" has left the dock a long time ago and the full F16's are about to be introduced to Australia itself, there is no point anymore in upgrading the Taipan 4.9 class. The only thing left to aspire to is to survive as a OD class locally in Aus. Either way the Taipan class has left the "game board" altogether and does not factor in anymore in determining what will happen to the cat sailing scene. They are now too small and too localized to factor in. Fighting extinction is now the only thing left.

Now lets shut up about it and yes that includes me as well

Wouter
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/10/07 11:07 AM

Hi Stephen,

if you wanted to substitute, Mosquito for Taipan in your post you could be commenting on something that happened some years earlier, it's amazing how history repeats itself. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As far as youth classes, the Mossie will always be a better option for introducing youth to cat sailing, as it doesn't overpower so quickly for light crews. So maybe the Taipan doesn't need to stay spinnaker less, as there is already a class for youth to crew on. Don't forget the Taipan was designed as the Mossie couldn't carry enough weight for Adults to crew. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> How the wheel has turned <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

My point <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />, you can't stop progress, classes wax and wane depending on decisions made by assoc. that don't have crystal balls. Who knows where the Taipans would be around the world if they had decided to make rig changes earlier, I would suggest more popular <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />.
Posted By: mattaipan

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/10/07 11:59 AM

Well that didn't take long, about a day, and your at it again Wouter.

Why am I not surprised.

My hand is doing something else at the screen now, bet you can't guess what.

You do your cause more harm than good, about time you opened your eyes to that.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/10/07 02:39 PM



Hey, I'm allowed to answer back when another person like Stephen fans the flames.

Wouter
Posted By: Stewart

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/11/07 04:24 PM

Since the "classic" Tiapan 4.9 was grandfathered.. Then I suspect the "upgraded" Tiapan would not be F16 class legal. If we take other precedents in other classes..
It would be up to the T4.9 or a sub group to ask for a review.. Till that time the a upgraded T 4.9 should race with F16 as unofficial...
Posted By: taipanfc

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/12/07 02:11 AM

The way Wouter reacts to many comments that don't agree with his view and browbeats his opinion is really a negative aspect to this forum and class.

One of the reasons I don't bother coming here much (used to be regularly), and that F16 wasn't at the top of my list when I bought a new cat.

Case of lighten up and go sailing.
Posted By: Jalani

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/12/07 07:03 AM

That's a real shame - it should be remembered that Wouter is just an individual who owns an F16. He is a class member and that is all. He has no say in any official capacity within the class and as such his views should be considered as the views of an individual. The F16GC and the NAs will always act in the interests and take on board the views of the majority of the membership.
It would be wrong to condemn/ignore a really great concept and design because of one loose cannon.
Posted By: Phile

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/12/07 08:43 AM

Best not take Wouter too seriously. He obviously enjoys baiting. My guess is that he had a difficult childhood and this has turned him into the pedantic **** that he is today.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/12/07 11:04 AM

Quote

Best not take Wouter too seriously. He obviously enjoys baiting. My guess is that he had a difficult childhood and this has turned him into the pedantic **** that he is today.



It is not baiting at all.

When you are about to stick your hand in the fire and I yell at you :"don't do it !", then that is not the result of any bad childhood on my part, nor does it mean that I hate you or try to bait you.

I fundamentally disagree with some people about certain aspects because I have some clear and concrete indications that they are on the "wrong" track. Now, indeed, what constitutes "wrong" in the last phrase is subjective and everybody is right to have their own views on it. However, I will argue that things associated with economic feasibility and customer perception are not spread out evenly over the spectrum of all possible opinions. In these fields you can definately "get it wrong" and eventually have to the pay the price for being wrong.

From personal experience and principles of economic feasibility I claim that a certain class is persisting in doing things wrong (in the latter meaning) and that that is not very smart.

I not only claim that but have even shown that to be the case by building up the F16 class and have it grown into a more serious part of the catamaran scene with each passing year, including Australia itself. If you compare the two classes directly you'll certainly see the effects of doing things differently.

Then you come back at this (and me) and claim that I had a bad childhood.

If that makes you feel better personally then I guess it is harmless enough.

If that is an extention of the official policy of your class then ... Ohhh dear !

Wouter
Posted By: Buccaneer

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/13/07 01:58 AM

This discussion makes me wonder was changing the beam to 250 and adding a self tacking jib a help or hindrance to your F16 class?..... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/13/07 07:09 AM

Quote

I claim that a certain class is persisting in doing things wrong (in the latter meaning) and that that is not very smart.


Is that wrong in your personal, selfish eyes or in the eyes of the class and its active members?????

Quote
I not only claim that but have even shown that to be the case by building up the F16 class and have it grown into a more serious part of the catamaran scene with each passing year, including Australia itself.


Class has grown into what????? I don't see much of a class in OZ at all, and from what I have heard, it is VERY small off shore too. Perhaps it needs the major manufactures to jump in an kick start the class.

FYI, I don't dislike the F16 class, infact there may be one in my drive way not to far down the track once the class sorts its self out.....
Posted By: mattaipan

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/13/07 09:44 AM

Until the Blade and Viper establish themselves here, the only thing keeping the F16 in Australia is the Taipan and Mosquitos, so to be constantly attacking one of the main veins to the F16, I don't think THAT is very smart or should that be WRONG, not sure.

Earlier in this thread you mention rebranding Wouter, lets step back a bit and have look at what your on, a rebranded Taipan. I noticed early last year when tried all this crap then, the word Taipan was quickly removed your signature.

You state information that is incorrect, such as your knowledge or lack of, in regards to the Taipan hulls being discontinued, acting as though you have a finger in pie of everything that goes on over here, or at AHPC, or Jim Boyer when its obvious at the end of the day, half of what you say is crap.

Everything is fine until someone says something that is not in line with your thinking, then you try and shut them down or put out the old 'your a dumb butt' line. The F12 is certainly taking huge strides - not, and theres only one reason for that.

Again just get over it and yourself.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues - 05/13/07 05:56 PM



Whatever guys !

The future will be merciless to one of us and I'm happy to let her be the judge of things.

And that is the end of it from my part.

Wouter
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