JPOR

Friday practice anyone?

That is the current plan. I will be there late morning pulling boats down and trying to get in a little sail if possible.

M

Expect between 1 and 2.

There is a little problem with the party Friday night. The restaurant closed.

It hasn't rained in what, a month? So of course the forecast for JPOR is rain on Saturday, clearing on Sunday... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

5 Blades pre-registered!! Sweeeeet. We want pictures. Ed

Well, the only pictures you might see are the ones I will be sending to my insurance company. We had a squal line come through Friday night and flip three Blades over. My starboard hull took a big hit, Matt's mast folded but Pete's boat was ok. The regatta was re-scheduled to Sept. due to Tropical Storm Barry, the very high surf, the comittee boats couldn't get out of the inlet and I doubt if any of us could have got off the beach without being destroyed.

That sucks!! And you only had the boat for a week! My HT almost went flying at Lake Pont regatta (was flying a hull 4 feet up even after being tied to the trees)

That's bad news, how many tie down points did you have ?

Zero.

Well in that case; tough.

If you leave your boat somewhere it must be tied down. I have 4 long screw thread type pegs (about 3 feet long) that I screw into the ground.

One is directly under the back beam, one under the mast step and one each side of the boat. Boat gets tied down to each of these.

Yes, I know, and I'm still kicking myself in the nuts for not tieing it down or waiting 'till morning to put up the mast.

I haven't found them (but haven't looked too hard) for those anchors that screw into the ground like for a dog lease or something like that. If one is put in the ground right under the dolphin striker then tied to that I think it would work well. I don't think the forces on the dolphin striker would be too intense given the angles to make it so that the anchor would have to be really dug in. If no anchor is available I try to put the boat near trees so I can try to tie the trap lines to the trees with small sections of line.
My (your old) HT took a tumble on the beach here early on when I didn't tie it down and it broke a diamond wire (one of the reasons why I am still impressed with the Riba mast on that boat- it didn't break the mast, just the diamond wire). The guy that owns the land I keep my boat on had his HT up on saw horses to trim the rudders and forgot about it. Squall came through (wouldn't take much) and it flipped his boat around and put a 1 ft hole in the transom which he repaired very nicely. It took him a little time to discover that the mast had also been cracked which was luckily a relatively easy fix.

Tim- I hope you can get your boat fixed up soon. If I weren't 9 hours away I would offer to help fix it. It sucks when stuff like that happens but I actually somewhat like trying to fix it. Given how new the boat is I would probably go professional though. One thing I am not in a hurry to learn is gelcoating.

I've a boat tied down to 2 of these go for a fly in a big storm; I now always use 4.

When I am travelling I aim to tru and tie the boat to 2 trailers, or my trailer and something else, or even my trailer and the tow bar of the car.

The boat is at Vectorworks awaiting the insurance man and a new starboard hull. I have a 7 day trip to Bombay tomorrow so I won't be using it anyway.

On the tie down thing, it was very soft sand so you would have to dig quite a way down to get solid mass, a simple dog screw wouldn't grab enough I think. What I have come up with, after a long drive home, is two 5 gallon bucketts and a small shovel, I can use them to wash the boat on arrival, then burry one on each side of the boat and tie the trap handles to the bucket handles to keep the boat in place. It will be a pain to un-dig them after the regatta but not as much pain as a flipped boat.

The worst part of course is listening to my wife say, "I told you to buy a jet ski..."

Tim,

I use Hurricane anchors...they can be had at Home Depot or Lowes for about $10. They are VERY LONG and take FOREVER to screw them in .... but I doubt they'd come up easily.

That is another good idea.

part of the kit I take with me are 2 large tyres for this reason;

Dig a big hole in the sand, bury them and then tie the boat to them.

1 meter long by 12cm wide planks buried in snow have tremendous holding power. Perhaps something to test if you are in need of a quick fix (not in the snow, but the sand).
Dont kick yourself too hard, we all mess up now and then, but you will never go into this particular trap again. Hope you get to use the boat soon!

grounds for divorce!

Oh, we've both given each other plenty of reasons, but neither of us wants the 4 kids... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Is the hull that bad that it can't be repaired?

The boats on trailers with masts DOWN were fine. They all had sail boxes and were pretty heavy. A Capricorn with MAST UP, on a heavy trailer was fine.

A H-16, with mast up, on the trailer was fine.

My boat, mast UP was tied to the trailer and flipped anyway, trailer and all. My rigging hung-up on the trailer of the Capricorn parked next to me. My boat suffered no damage, neither did the Cap. My trailer does not have a sailbox. I have intentionally tried to keep my trailering weight down.

I will add a sail box to my trailer, with very little consideration of weight and keep some tie down anchors in it. My preference will be to keep the boat on the trailer with mast down.

Thanks Jennifer, Fred, Bryan, Chuck, Mavis, David, Kathy, Paul and Terry. I hope I haven't forgotten anyone. It took all those folks plus Matt, Tim and me a couple of hours to police up all the bits and untangle all the spahetti.

Was it tied down on both sides ?

I always try and tie my boat down both sides if I can.

So <boat trailer><BOAT><car or other trailer> and then use the trap wires with ropes on to tie the boat down; this stops it blowing over. If at all possible I will also try and tie it to something to stop it going forwards or backwards.

My boat was secured to the trailer at four points, i.e. fore and aft on each hull.

Holey moley and it still blew away !

Was can you work out if the mast powered up and caused it to go over ?

Was that an alu trailer or steel?

I usually tie my boat to its steel trailer when at events (the trailer gets tied to the ground when at home).

Paul

Ah, yes. Good point.

I think the wing mast had a lot to do with the Blades going over while the Hobie 16 stayed upright, of course the lighter weight of the Blade didn't help hold it down, but once the wind changed direction and got to the 'wrong' side of the mast, there is quite a bit of wing area up there for it to act on. It appeared that my boat flew about 30 feet backwards and landed on the starboard bow.

Yep, boat is tied down here as well.

When I'm at a regatta venue that is not my homeport then sometimes I make sure that another F16 sailors places his trailer next to mine with enough spec between them to place both our boats. We then use the trapeze wires and the trailers to pin our boats to the trailers when the masts are stepped. We survived some good winds that way. And it removes the requirement to dig. Quick and effective.

But indeed F16's must never be left unattended or untied when their masts are stepped (or even the sails are hoisted). These boats are light enough to by thrown about even by modest gusts.

I learned my lesson as well, luckily no damage.

When I'm on a sail away to a neighbouring club to do some races there then I tip my boat over intentionally when I'm on the beach and getting a drink. I forgot to do that one time and a very modest gust flipped it when I was some 200 mtr away. The rig narrowly missed a pedestrian. Additionally I ALWAYS unhook my mainsail when I'm on the beach.

Again, these boats are just too light to take chances with.

Wouter

Another trick is to use a section of 1x2 timber, say 2 feet. Dig a hole (2 feet deep), tie a piece of line the to middle of it and place the timber horizontally in the hole and close it. You will need tons of kg to pull that ground achor out by force. But when digging it up you just dig a narrow hole and lift it out by one end.

Best to place both such ground anchors to each side of the boat and tie the line off to the sidestays. This is how we all do it here in the boat parking and we have very soft sand as well. We survived all storms to date.

Wouter

Yep, that wingmast can generate quite alot of power on its own. Remember that their is 1.5 sq. mtr. of area in the mast and it is a (symmetrical) WING shape. Almost like a helicopter rotor blade.

I always secure my mast rotation in addition to tying the boat down. If I don't then the mast will go look for angle with the optimal power ratio and shake my boat about. With a secured mast rotation the chance are that the angle it wrong and a stalled flow goes across the mast reducing the force generated.

Lets face it guys these boats just want to FLY !

Wouter

My trailer is galvanized steel and has an adjustable wheel attached to the front of the tongue, making it even heavier.

My mast rotation was NOT locked down, intentionally. I thought that was the proper technique. Jennifer Lindsey, the engineer on the spot, believes a "free" wing mast sets up an oscilation that adds to the instability. (Think about that bridge that shook itself apart in the U.S. back in the forties.) She also suggests a much wider base for the tie-downs, such as many of you have suggested.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> After my boat had been righted (by Fred and Jennifer), it blew over again! Right in front of me! I did not think the wind was excessively high at that point, maybe 15-20, but the boat was not tied to the trailer. It was just sitting on the beach! IMO, if the wind is over 15, the boat needs to be tied down, or someone needs to be sitting on it. Even while rigging.

Hi all,

I avoided replying to this post straight away, hopeing to give time for the hurt to fade <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />.

I too always lock my mast across, most times my boat has been left on beach rollers with mast up at different regattas. My hold down set up is to move rollers to back beam, then I fill two 20 litre drums with water (aprox. 20kgs each), either tap or what we race in <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Then tie the trap wires to the handles on the drums which are moulded in, the drums are placed at the side of the boat near sidestays.

Advantages, if you are going sailing there is allways stuff to put in them, light weight when travelling, doesn't matter if you are on hard ground or soft sand, if filled by tap can be used to wash down before packing up <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Those dog screw type anchors really won't hold very well in sand. We use the orange anchors that you can find at "rustic" hardware stores (like a local Ace Hardware or similar). They have a 1/2" rod in the center with a spiral plate welded to the tip (not a twisted rod). These will hold much better than those dog tie-out screws. I suppose those could be the same as the "hurricane anchors".

yes the same jake ... except at ACE you get more assortment of lengths...from 12" up to 4' in length.

Tim & Matt, sorry to hear of the damage. With the A Cats I'm used to tying the boat down early and often but I've been enjoying not having to worry so much with the heavier (although slightly) and wider F-16. Looks like I need to be diligent with this boat also. I'm using the same stake as Jake with good results. We get ours at the local farm supply and they come in different lengths up to 4'. They are also available in Horse (tack) supply shops if you live in a horse type area. Ed

Ed,

I was using 1 of those screw type anchors and it was still solidly attached to the dolphin striker with the boat upside down. It was one of the short ones, but I had dug a deep hole first, screwed it in then as far as I could go, then filled in the hole, so the top was at least 2 below the surface. I also had my heavy cat trax tied to the front of the bows to add more weight. They also were still firmly tied to the bows the next morning.

When I left for the site, the forecast was for the wind to continue to die slightly and back around more west over night. I had to completely string up the whole boat and was supposed to help with the event set-up, so was trying to get a head start on rigging for Saturday. Turned out to be a bad call. I think what really got us was that the east wind and full moon brought the tide way up. The weed line was above where we were tied down and the trailers were all partially submurged. The waves most likely shifted the boat and the wing mast took it from there.

That's what I get for trying to do things in advance; why couldn't I have procrastined as ususal (another case of positive reinforcement for a bad habit). I lucked out, other than the broken stick, there was not so much a scratch on the boat. Timbo ended up with the bad deal.

some people use a small sized old car tyre that is buried in standing position for about 80%. Place it under your dolphin striker and even in loose sand it will save your boat. And yes always secure your mast rotation, prevents your boat from jumping like a kangaroo

We are usually working with compacted dirt up here. It looks like working with sand is a whole nother story and I appreciate all the tips providied. Again, sorry you guys (and gals) had a tough weekend of it. There are many more regattas coming up and I'm sure they will ease the pain. Ed