weight of f16

lets have a pole on who thinks we should as a group increase the weight of the f16. I would like it to remain the same

same, leave the rules as they are, no need to change them.

Pleeeeease don't change any of the F16 rules. Leave well enough alone and let the class grow! Slightly heavier boats will be plenty competitive.

I dont think anybody except perhaps some manufacturers want to change the min. weight, so no worries. No matter what, there would have to be a vote before the rules were changed, so no worries. It would take very strong arguments to convince the current owners and builders that it would be in the best interest of the class to raise the min weight.

Oh, and of course the min. weight should be where it is today.

Hi all,

I want to tell that the rules as they are on the moment will not change. The weight rule as it is now will be remain. The first what needs to be done now is to create a more stable class and let the manufactures have the change to develop a boat what is competitive, strong and good. If we are changing to much they cannot follow that and they will stop there investments in the class which will kill the class.

I actively and fundamentally oppose any raising of the ready-to-sail weight rules.

Wouter

Me too. If this were to happen the F16 would be a laughing stock. "oh, look, the The F16 has got lardier, how funny is that, everyone is making their boats lighter and the F16 went then other way - how silly".

THE SOUL REASON we got the boat is because of its weight, our weight, and NO minimum crew weight!!!!!

Are you sure it's "SOUL" -- deeply felt emotion

or

maybe it's "SOLE" -- being the only one

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Will we sea (see) you at Juan's Good Time, Sept 8-9 ?

Well it really isn't the "only one" reason, yes we feel a "deep emotion" with the boat, and I am a math/science person so my spelling/english stinks....So I am not sure which it is. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for Juana's--CatFest in Charlotte, NC falls on the same weekend. To support our division and because it is much closer we are going there. But we would really like to get together with you all sometime.

BTW Good news!!!!! By next weekend we will have another Blade in Chattanooga.

Here in the UK the A Class is marketed as "the fastest singlehanded racing boats in the world" (Y&Y June 1,2007) If that is true then at present F16's must be the fastest single handers downwind in the world. I don't think it will be to long until a F16 beats an A at a relevant regatta to take the complete title, that is for as long as we don't add any unnecessary weight to the platform.
Mind you at that time the A's will probably argue that F16's aren't strictly singlehanders!!!

The rumour is that Rohan Veal (current Moth World Champion) is beating Glenn Ashby (current A-class World Champion) around the course!

I don't think A's can claim to be the fastest single handers anymore...!

RAISE THE MINIMUM WEIGHT ????
I WOULD VOTE TO HAVE IT LOWERED (but then that's just me, the older I get the less weight I like to pull around)

Comparing a foiler with a displacement / planing sailboat doesn't seem right to me.

Raise the weight?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I'd rather see us put foiler boards and rudders on the F16's and then go race with the Moths! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The comparison was between singlehanders, not foiler/non-foiler.

The Australian A-class Association website does say "the fastest one-man yacht in the World".

But the Taipan and Mossies have been produced for many many years. Unfortunately the so called “big manufactures” are unwilling to do anything more then regurgitate old hull designs and use primitive production techniques performed by poorly supervised unskilled labor. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That claim by the A class association is now very suspect when the Yachting Victoria yardsticks list both the A class and the F16 (for F16 both 2 up AND SINGLEHANDED) at 71. These yardsticks are based on real performance results IN A VARIETY of ACTUAL races, and as such is a very good representation of their true performance accreditation against each other, ON THE WATER. Even more so as in those A class results there have featured some of, if not the best A class sailers in the world, whereas the F16 sailers, although good sailers, have not had the benefit of the same extensive close F 16 "class" competition over long hard years of top tuning/racing that the A's have. A conservative analogy would be that, all things being equal, the single-handed F16 performances will only improve over time whereas the A class will in all probability remain relatively the same. Even so, as it stands as of this moment, the F16 single handed IS currently rated exactly the same as the A class, ergo, the A class cats are NOT the fastest single handed cats in the world today. Their statement is false.

QUOTE
{But the Taipan and Mossies have been produced for many many years. Unfortunately the so called “big manufactures” are unwilling to do anything more then regurgitate old hull designs and use primitive production techniques performed by poorly supervised unskilled labor.} END QUOTE

Hang about a minute, we regularly see the inside of the hulls of both Taipans and Mosquitoes and the supposedly “big manufacturers” who have made them have definitely NOT used “primitive production techniques performed by poorly supervised unskilled labour”, quite the contrary, in all instances of those two particular makes of cats, the building techniques and materials used, when made by commercial manufacturers, have been excellent by anyone’s standards.
The hull designs are an entirely different “subjective “ matter, probably best left to individual desires and preferences.

That would rather be B&Q with dame McArthur on it or Laurent Bourgnon on the singlehanded ORMA Tri Primagaz or one of the newly launched singlehanded maxis. And lets not forget about Longshot c.q. Hobie trifoiler ! But even closer to home we have some modern 18squares that will be a right challenge to A-cats.

Some A-cat sailors have a hard time accepting that the sailing world around them has changed in the last 15 years.

With respect to F16's getting faster with good crews on them ? Yeah I can confirm that now. Last weekend I was lucky to do some training for the F16 World Cup with 2 other F16 crews ; the 4th walking nervously about the beach waiting to get well soon. One of my sparring partner did a bloody horizon job on us sailing upwind, 3 TIMES IN A ROW ! The guy is a better sailor then the other crew and I am but boy this was a HUGE difference. And note that I'm already snatching at the heels of the better F18 sailors at our club. This other guy is wasting no time and is simply killing them on his F16. I haven't seen too many A-cat sailors do that to well sailed F18's, including "this guy" himself.

There is no doubt in my mind that the F16 is an over all faster boat then the A's when sailed with an equally skilled crew as the competition. I would love to see what a crew like Ashby or Heemskerk can pump out of this concept with a little training.

But I'll settle for Greg Goodall and Remco Kenbeek !

Wouter

Joanna,

Who is it that we may welcome as the new F16 crew in your neck of the woods ?

Is it another Alter Cup boat or a new order ? (I thought all Alter Cup boats were already sold)

Wouter

My point being the Taipans and Mossies have been around for almost as long as the H16 and so has the technology. So why do some builders want to change the weight rule? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Raising the weight of the F16 seems indeed a strange idea. I would also be in favour of lowering it, if possible.

I think the class should stay open for everyone, meaning it must be possible to achieve minimum weight with normal hulls, masts, ...
Switching to carbon only can only be an option when it stays affordable.

Gill

Wouter,
His name is Jody and he is picking up his brand new Blade this weekend!! We finally have someone in the area who wants to sail our lake and on the same boat-what luck. Division D-N watch out you all will have two of us to contend with. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe I am just noticing it more but are the Blades selling pretty quickly these days?

Yes ... Keep in mind that the Alter Cup had a surplus of 10 boats to be sold. Obviously this helps ... but so does the fact the fleet is growing and more people get to see this cat (some for the first time).

Shouldn't we compare apples with apples when doing boat comparisions,Any boat on any given day could claim to be the fastest one man boat.And also when doing boat comparisons shouldn't you compare wind , wave other boats on courses etc and also courses sailed
Just my thoughts Richard

I got a better idea. Never claim of your own craft that it is the fastest singlehanded yacht in the world.

Solves all issues.

Wouter

............unless it's an F14 <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

The journey into understanding ourselves is interesting if done with an open mind.
Why do I look at foiling moths and think "no thanks". ...they are fast etc and obviously need great skill to sail but I have no attraction at all to it.
There are monos that I can really get the groove on for....but I just think that once the hull has no relation to the water it is no longer a boat. At that point it is just a seat on a stick. I certainly don't want to condem it or the sailors...it's just a feeling ...maybe just a fear of the unknown.

'Seat on a stick' <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You just know I'm going to use that. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

yes.. that is more fun!!

may I point out many A cats are not carbon skinned nomex! They are kevlar on foam!!
If you want to know more about light weigh boat development.. Read Bethwaites book...

which "big manufacturters" make T4.9s and or mossies?
I would have classified "big manufacturers" as Hobie, Performance and the ilk..

I'm with you.
In fact, I think foilers are kind of like a step backward in evolution.

If you want to see a really big foiler, check out the cover of this month's Sailing World Magazine! It's a picture of that L'Hydroptere French tri on foils. I'll try a link, maybe they have a picture on their web site.

http://www.sailingworld.com

Yup, it's there, look over on the far right of the web site and you will see the cover picture. It also says, "The Future Is Here" inside there is also a picture of a Moth foiling.

so wouter, who at your club is doing a horizon jobn then ?