Tradewinds???

Cold, breezy? What's ths story?

Lots of wind!!! I'll let everyone tell their own story. I think Tim/Andy and Terry/Tina were the only ones to tough it out. The rest of us either broke or quit. I did both.

I pitch-poled the boat right after rounding "B" mark in the 1st race, got separated (for the first time ever in my life)with the boat eventually drifting about 1/4 mile away. After twenty minutes or so Tim and Andy fished me out and Arie and I righted the boat. No problem. BUT. . .the jib had somehow gotten wrapped around the forestay and created enough windage for the boat to reach off at about 3 knots. No matter what I did, I could not get the boat up into the wind and we had a hell of a time getting back on board. Finally, we got on the boat and were able to sail back to shore to sort things out. There was no irreparable damage but the conditions were clearly beyond my abilities. Mid 20s gusting to high 20s I think.

Twenty five to thirty five on Sunday. I stayed in bed.

Ouch!!

Hard to summon the energy and $ to make that trip when the weather can screw you so bad... but thats life with sailing.

PTP, you are right, it's a lot of time, money and effort just to drive down there. A bunch of sailors came all the way from upstate NY too.

Saturday was -in my opinion- perfect. Not too hot, not too cold, I wore shorts and a T-shirt, the air was about 79f and the water about 75? Plenty of wind for two up sailing. Without a crew, probably too much to be out as a Uni, but I know the guys who did Zandvoort will dispute that.

I'm just glad I failed miserably at my diet or Andi and I would have been too light. We did "carbo-load" on plenty of Pizza and beer Friday night (Thanks Pete!) in anticipation of a blow on Saturday. The nice part was the wind and water were both warm on Saturday because we flipped 3 times, once going upwind, twice downwind, and Andi slid off the back of the boat once bearing off at B mark when the boat took off turning downwind. It sure can go!

But on Saturday night, a cool front came through (snow in B-ham) and the temps dropped to abut 67 but the wind came way up, big gusts too, and shifted to the NW, so the bay side was going to be much rougher than it had been on Saturday, and with all the separated sailors we had on Saturday, I think the RC did the right thing to cancel on Sunday. You would have needed at least 5 more crash boats to keep up with all the capsizes. Nice day for a Wave though. (35 mph winds).

Andi made it home OK, I checked to see if he got on his 5pm flight. I didn't sleep at all Sunday night because with that big wind the storm shutters were banging on the wall outside the window by my head, so at 0300 I got up and turned on the Weather Channel, at 0400 I woke Andi and at 04:15 we hit the road for Palm Beach. He missed the 0700 flight but made the 08:25 to ATL. I got home at about 10 am and took a nap!

It was great to see all you guys/wives in one place at one time, and not just on the water. I think we should rent a house every regatta. Thanks to Terry and Diane for doing all the hard work to make that happen, and thanks Diane for all the great food and cleaning up the mess we made.

I just like being in the Keys. It was worth it to me just to go down and hang out.

Of course I'm much closer than most of you. So travel is not such a big deal.

The fact that some of us went out uni and raced back then doesn't necessarily imply that we thought the conditions were ... "favourable". <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter

Well I wasn't there so I will leave it to Matt to compare the two. We had pretty flat water Saturday at Tradewinds because the wind was blowing away from the beach. Sunday it was more out of the North to NW, more on-shore, so I know it would have been much rougher if we had gone out.

ROFLMAO! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I know you are serious and would have been in your glory! For me, no chance!!

For those of you who didn't see it, Tim and Andi are serious heavy air sailors!

Pete, you mean we are "good swimmers"! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

We sure had plenty of practice.

That too! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You mean like this ?











Very nice form Andi and Tim !

What did Andreas think of the boat ?


All the other F16 pics taken at Tradewinds can be seen at :

http://f16.beasts.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=7014

Notice in the bottom photo the mast rotation is pointing to the side-stay (fully powered up). Reading back in previous post, many suggest rotating back towards the rear beam; however, looking at many of the photos (Tornado, I20, F18, F16) it seems that most have their mast rotated way out.

Granted, Andi and Tim ate ...errrrrrr... alot of pizza and drank many beers on Friday night .... but .....

What is the current conventional wisdom on mast rotation in 20+ knots of wind?

Less rotation for less power. Where this comes in the sequence of depowering is up for debate I think. My scheme is downhaul, traveler out, less rotation, go home.

I think it would be worth it to just go to one of these races just so I could get some action pics taken of my boat.

Thanks for finding and posting the pictures Wouter. Those were all taken near the A mark upwind in the flatter water, as you can see. The other end of the course had some nice waves! Andi said he liked the boat quite a bit and he will be posting something here later on, he is at work right now, straight off the flight, so I know he is tired!

On the mast rotation, from here it does look excessive, but sometimes during a tack, the line would get pulled from the clete, so then I would have to adjust it later, but we were tweaking it now and then, only in the really big blows would we bring it in to streamline it for less power. Mostly we were looking at the backside tell tales to be sure it was not in too much. Plenty of down-haul on most of the time upwind, completely off downwind. And as you see the boards were up about 6" and the traveler down about the same.

We tried to be on one hull as much as possible which really helps going upwind, but it did cause us to pitchpole once going upwind when we stuffed a really big wave. We nearly lost the boat as it was going very fast away from us but I was still hooked into my trap handle so I grabbed Andi's arm as I went by. As the boat was pulling us through the water at a good clip, he was able to pull himself up the trap wire to the mast tip, then I did, and we were able to quickly right it once we got a hold of it. If my trap wire had broke, the boat would be half way to Galveston by now! Luckily the only damage was a busted trap bungie cord.

After that, Andi would sometimes have his back
foot in the strap (see photos) to keep from sliding forward when stuffing the low bow. We moved front and back constantly to keep it ballanced so the bow wouldn't be too low or high.

Mostly I was sawing the mainsheet constantly in the gusts while he drove it up or down according to the waves/wind, etc. It took us a little while to get in synch but we eventually did.

Downwind was another story all together, we started out with me on the trap, but after numerous stuffs we decided that unless we were being pushed by a competitor, we would take the conservative route, boards way up, traveler way out, driving deep on two hulls most of the time. Matt and Gina were pushing us in the first race...until they crashed, that's when we decided to take it easy going downwind, because swimming is slow. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Didn't one of the other guys say that in a blow the traveler should be in down wind? If it's out, when you dive down wind the rig tends to accelerate.

Inquiring minds wanna know!

The Apparant wind was well forward and we were both sitting all the way at the aft beam, Andi in on the tramp, me right next to him out on the edge of the hull and my outside foot against the back of the up board to keep from sliding forward. As long as we kept the bows up it would plane and climb up over the waves, but you are right, if you stuff the bows you are going over with the main out like that. We did that once. Most of the time we were shouting, "Here's a gust, Hold ON!" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Did you ever get a chance to pace yourself with a F18?

What happened with Matt and Gina?

Matt heard there was RUM on the beach...wanted to be sure to get his share before everyone else got in <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

They were right beside us after the B mark in the first race, first lap, (but running a bit deeper, see photo) with the kite up when they stuffed it and flipped. Someone hit the main (Gina?) and pulled it out of the mast track halfway up, while someone else (Matt?) hit the boom and put a "speed bend" in it. They went in to fix it all but never returned, Revenge of the Rum maybe?

Check out the roostertails on the wakes of both boats! This was on the short reach to B mark, thus no spinns up yet.

All the starts were 3 minutes apart, I20's first, then F18's then F16's. There were times when we were near some of each but I think only because they had flipped and recovered. It was very hard to keep track of who was where because one minute they were "right there" and the next minute, gone...swimming. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Seth and Stephan (Taipan 4.9 F16) got a taste of the old Karma after they laughed at us as they passed us while we were recovering from one dump, Seth was yelling, "I've got you now you Mother F'rs..." or words to that effect as they screamed by. We were hot to catch them once we got going again, next thing I know, they are gone. On the next lap I see them tied to a crash boat, mast down. Karma's a Bitch! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We did pass one F18 and one I20 going upwind on one lap late in the day, can't tell you who, where, when or why.

Nice Pictures Wouter!

I was very cool to be at the Tradewinds regatta and we had al lot of fun!
A great thanks to everybody who was there, I really enjoyed the great hospitality there!

The place has a great Caribbean ambiance with palm trees, turquoise waters and a little beach
And it was blowing too! There was a gusty wind blowing with 20kn – 25kn.

> Tim and Andi are serious heavy air sailors!
I really enjoyed sailing in these conditions but would not consider myself as a serious heavy air sailor.

We had our fair share of swimming and capsized 3 times.

>What did Andreas think of the boat?
The Blade F16 is definitely a little pocket rocket! The boat is well balanced and very sensitive to sail with moderate sheet loads.

I would have really liked to see what the Blade could do against other boats in these conditions. I think we were definitely in the ball park.

Tim gave me the tiller and he was grinding the mainsheet.
Upwind I think this is what made the biggest speed difference, his constant trimming made the boat really going in the puffs.

Downwind we tried to single trapeze, but almost pitchpolled on the first downwind leg.

So we played it safe and we both sat it out on the tramp. Tim had one foot on the daggerboard to ensure he stays at the back of the bus, while I sat below him with my back at the rear beam.

To bad the weather didn't play with us on sunday!

Hehe, Ringer Tim grinding the mainsheet ...

It looked more like this:
He was working his a__ off!
His hands were bleeding, had blisters and his rubber gloves were worn through after the races.

A true effort and he made it easy for me to keep the hull out of the water. Without his effort, I could have sailed no where near as fast.

Ringer Andi <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There is a good post on the CABB forum of Catsailor about rescue efforts at Tradewinds.

At the end he mentions a Taipan demasting. Was that Seth/Stefan? What happened? Any permanent damage to crew or boat?

Yep, team S&S. I think Stefan got slammed forward during a violent pitch-pole and sheared off the stanchion(?) at deck level. The boat went home with Matt for repairs, the bruise went home with Stefan!

Ouch.... you talking about ripping the shroud/sidestay anchor out of the hull?

Sort of. That is a welded piece and the weld let go. No damage to the boat, just to Stefan's hip. He had a noticable limp on Sunday.

They would be very competitive if they would just back off a little bit.

If the winds are heavy in March, and Chris Stater is here sailing like he did at JPOR, he will be tough to beat. Whoever swims least will be the winner!

Man, I wish you guys weren't so cool in person. It would be easier to have a go at you here <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Terry, is Tina an awesome crew or what! You two did a great job at Twinds

Nice to meet you Andi. I hope the Keys lived up to your expectations.

what worked for me with the rotator on the Blade was that I didn't travel out and brought the rotator in from behind the shroud until I felt the boat climb upwind. This setting was always different as conditions aren't usually exactly the same, but when we sailed the boat in +/- 20 I had the rotator between where the rear crossbar met the hull and the hiking strap. The boat literally "took off" going upwind when I found the right setting. The rotator has to be adjusted a lot on these wing masts, which adds another layer into the fun of sailing! It is a really fun boat to sail upwind in those conditions.

This the reigning Alter Cup Champ. Take notes.

Hey, did you guys take him up on his offer to do a seminar on boat handing and trim for you ?

I would have swallow my pride and drop to my knees in gratitude for that offer ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter

Nope! I couldn't get any takers. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I think it was more of a timing thing, not enough people could show up.

This stuff is not rocket surgery. All as you are doing is attempting to keep the mast rotated such that there is a smooth transition from the mast to the sail, no kink or bend in or out. More down haul, flatter sail, less rotation. Go out on your boat and mark the position where the rotation and downhaul match by looking up the mast while sailing. This is your starting point and just adjust flatter by using both settings from there as the wind picks up. Typically for a full sail this is about 2/3 down haul distance and the rotator about 1/2 way between the db trunk and the rear cross bar. This varies for every mast and sail also with how much prebend you have in the mast, so the magic point is different for everyone and you need to find it for yourself. If your spreader rake is in the ball park, 1 item to note for the VMI Blades is that if you see the spreaders interfering with the jib going up wind, you can bet you are rotated out too far. This gives poor flow around the back side, cuases the top to kink and the leach to then flutter all while not allowing the top to twist off so is slow and feels over powered. By over rotating in board as noted by JC in a blow, the top of the mast spills of becuase these are very soft in sideways bending and bleeds off a lot of excess power while keeping the sail full down low. By controliing the sail power and keeping in control, you can get great hull speed and this is what then translates into the percieved pointing ability as the hulls and foils start working for you.

M

[/quote]
This stuff is not rocket surgery.
M [/quote]

Good, not that I was going to operate on any rockets. That's for THE Chuck and Fearless Rider.

Matt, what is so blatanly obvious to you is unfathomable to me. That's why you finish so far ahead of me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I apologize for any percieved impressions that may come across due to the forum as no disrespect was meant.

My point was that there are a very few and usually simple concepts involved in sailing. With a simple search I can easily find 100s of posts addressing mast rotation. Most are very generic with advice like point it at the daggerboard or rudder etc. as if you can hook up a knot meter to scale your settings. This position may be correct for certain points of sail but it is not a cure all position. Luckily if you are tuned in the ball park, it really will not make much if any difference to your performance. (i.e. if you are going slow, for most of us there is a very high probablility it will not be corrected buy any tuning adjustment you can make it is all in the tiller and the sheet, in fact having your head in the boat and worrying about them is likely to further slow you down)Boat settings and tuning are just a very small part of performance. This is why I really love sailing. Everytime I go out I feel like I have learned a little more. I have come a very long way from my first day with a boat having to get rescued, yet I get in events where it is obvious I am still a beginner.

--Go that way VERY FAST, if something gets in your way; TURN

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

Bump: Hey, can we talk about sailing again or would that be too much to ask??

Gulfport, who's in? I've heard lots of F16's coming down from up north, VA, TN, ATL, etc. Yes? Might be 16 of them? Who's sailing Uni and who's with crew? Thanks.

Well said Matt. If I can offer just a bit of phillisophical indulgance here with what a very wise sailor told me once. Its not so much about going fast, its about going slow less often. Ed

I don't think this skipper can get a kitchen pass, so the crew may be looking for a ride. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I distinctly remember telling Tina .... DIVE, DIVE.

Of course, it didn't help to have 8-10 gallons of water as moveable ballast in the leeward hull. apparently caused from the top deck plate coming unglued 3-4" forward of the dagger board well.

Someplace along the race Tina did ask "Do you think we have water in that hull"....when we got back to the beach the answer was YES!

Did you get a kitchen pass for the premier event of the year? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />