pain, turmoil and melodrama

I've been a good boy for months. Time to stir up a little [censored]! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

How about a handicap number for 1-up, no spin. I use the old Taipan number at GYC occassionally and it's really sweet!

My excuse is the attraction for A class sailors who don't want to pony-up the bucks to play in that league.

My personal feeling is that each distinct class should have its own handicap, rather than multiple handicaps within the same class.

Solution, start a new class. Box rule, 1-up, no jib, no kite and it can have its own handicap.

You could call it F16 Uni-Topless and use the Taipan number. Works for me... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You're much too easy! Timbo is on the right track! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How about F16 Full Monty!?

FM16?

I guess the Mosquito's have four "divisions" within the class. Uni, sloop, uni with kite and sloop with kite...

The only time Mozzy Uni and sloop are seperated is at National and State titles, the rest of the year the Uni's and sloops race each other, first across the line wins. VYC yardstick is the same for both.

Using a Taipan yardstick for a Blade without spinnaker isn't very fair on those your racing against <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, you wont get away with that for long.

Darryn
1782

My bad re: mozzies...but there are kited and non-kited mozzies, certainly no "first past the post" racing between them.

Yeah but Pete, if you are going to sail it "Full Monty" then all you get to wear is your trap harness and gloves! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

That's illegal. . . even in Gulfport!

Great...now I have to gouge out my minds eye! How am I gonna get THAT image out of my head!

Me, Tim and Karl!? Are we the only ones with a sense of humor? Get to work you slackers! Surely there is at least one more smart butt out there!

Andi, is a naked fat man on skis funny in Switzerland? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It would be in Finland because cold does wonders for [censored] <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I havn't raced against a F16 how close is a F16 to an A with similar sailing skills, also where do they rate against a Taipan 5.7. Only asking because I've sold the Stingray and looking for my next boat
regards

Wait a minute...that was a serious question. I didn't think we were done making fun of Pete yet!

Basically you can expect the F16, when singlehanded, to be about as fast around the course as an A-cat. In very light winds the A will be marginally faster, in medium to strong conditions the F16 will be slightly faster and in strong conditions it is the sailor who can survive best who wins. A doublehanded F16 will keep performance up well into strong wind conditions and also be slightly faster then the A's there. F16's and A's do require different skills I'm told, which is really not that amazing when recognizing the differences in concept. Spinnaker sailing is significantly different from sailing downwind under a mainsail alone.

Under Texel the boat you name are rated as :

A-cat = 101
F16 1-up = 101
F16 2-up = 102

Taipan 5.7 2-up (no spi) = about 99
Taipan 5.7 2-up (with spi) = about 95

For comparison :

F18 = 101


That Taipan 5.7 is a fast boat. Not too surprising either as it has more sailarea then a F18 and weights only 136 kg where the F18 weights 180 kg. Small wonder that it is rated a couple of points faster. As a 2-up boat the Taipan 5.7 is about as good as it gets, it will even give the M20 a good run for its money.

Still the 17.22 sq. mtr mainsail on the Taipan 5.7 is quite some sailarea to sheet while singlehanding.

Also are you sure that you want to know about the Taipan 5.7 and not the Taipan 4.9 ?

Wouter

You tell 'em Karl! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> What the hell is wrong with you guys!

". . . beware of the naked man." - R. Newman

How about we make the Tikipete rating! I would call it the f16SAF F16 Slow-az-fuk

See you at GYC ill be driving Tods Boat!

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I may need crew for this. Anybody around?

I heard Stephan is looking to crew for someone...someone with a mast that will stay up! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

That's an idea, but my pitchpoles aren't radical enough for him! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Wouter I'm not looking to single hand the 5.7 that would be a crewed boat and I would keep the A or an F16 get rid of the A and only have to worry about one boat
regards

I see !

Well, the combo of an A-cat and the Taipan 5.7 is something to lust over. Choice to sail what won't get much better then that.

If combining both into one single boat is a requirement then the F16 can't be beaten. As nothing can ever be perfect you'll have to accept some payback, like slower performance to the T5.7, but having only one boat that does all may outweight these again. Having had two boats myself for several years I also see the advantages of having just one, both practically and financially (insureance etc)

I think that is basically the choice before you.


But like I always advice to sailors interested in getting an F16, I advice you to try and get a test ride on one. Gary Maskiel is still travelling about in South Aus with his Aussie Blade F16, in my opinion one of the best build F16 designs at this time. Afterwards you know for certain about what you are getting into and that will certainly help in making the final decision. When looking at converting a Taipan 4.9 then you must be aware that you'll be accepting a few additional drawbacks that require some additional modifications if you want to get rid of those. Contact me or someone else again it you are considering going that route.

Good luck and may you find the best boat(s) for your situation

Wouter

Skiing naked? Outch!

How about ice fishing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Not quite naked but allmost.

Looks like the de-icing gear is busted!

That's exactly why I joined the Air Force instead of the Navy! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, (since no one wants to make jokes) should we have a rating for the 1-up no spin rig?

Tim this is your fault! Remember you pointed out to me that a "naked" F16 is a lot like an A cat. Also a lot less money.

Relax Rolf! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> No rules changes being considered here, just a "what if" scenario.

Oh god, have I been branded as the "no rule changes" dude who cries "wolf" all the time? Sorry, but I got a bit worked up in 'that other thread' <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seems logical for me that a rating for the F16 without spi is what you need if you are going to race fairly. I think it is a bit counterproductive to first work to get just one number for the F16 in the US and then request a new number for the same platform with just mainsail and one up. I tend to agree with Ncik but dont feel strongly about it. Going racing without spi under rating rules if you could race with a F16 fleet on the other hand.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Can't you calculate that rating using the handicap modifiers allowed by the Portmsouth committee?

Yep -

http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables06/modifications06.asp

Modification SN: "Class normally with spinnaker, genoa, reacher, hooter or wire/rope luff headsail attached to a pole, not equipped with one"

Just use the no-spi modifier on the basic F16 1-up USPN rating.

Area's using Texel have a spi-less rating for the F16's by default so the question is mute there.

Wouter

In addition to the P corrections, I thought the origian Taipan 4.9's were Uni, non-spinnaker boats, then added the jib, then finally the spinnker? I realize they were built long before there was a F16 rule but I think they measure pretty close (except in beam and...what else?) to the current F16 rules, so you could use their old numbers as a comparison.

Here's a "quandry" for you, as this has actually happened, quite often around here. Say a boat wants to race in an open fleet, distance race. Say the boat has a spinnaker on board, but due to the wind direction, and the course direction, the chute never leaves the bag, so effectively, this boat is carrying extra weight and windage just by having the thing on board, never to be used. Along side this boat races another just like it, but this skipper left his spin in the car, pole too, and halyard, sheets, bag, all the extra crap you need for a spinnaker.

Now the guy with the spinnaker on board but never using it has to use a much lower rating than the guy without, who is actaully sailing a lighter boat with less windage! At the finish line, they tie, crossing at exactly the same instant. Who wins? The guy without the extra stuff who is also using the higher rating of course.

So Pete, if you are going to -not- use your spinnaker, it would be a good idea to remove all the associated hardware as well and save your boat some wt. and windage. There might be a call for such a sub-fleet with new F16 owners who are crewless and maybe not so experienced with their spinnakers. Ask around, you might be able to get a few to go topless with you! (see picture above!) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Personally, I cannot imagine wanting to go without it unless it was just incredibly windy, in which case I might be at the bar instead of sailing anyway. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Part of the game those guys playing the numbers get into.
Answer: The guy with no spin/hardware wins. The mods are applicable whether they are used or not.

If I really wnat to play it you can just look at the forecast and bring a whole different boat with you that fits the day. I will wait for the 30 knot reach distance race and pull my H16 out of mothballs and kick all your butts - Likely boat for boat

I like the name "F16-topless", it is kinda sexy ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter

I will wait for the 30 knot reach distance race and pull my H16 out of mothballs and kick all your butts - Likely boat for boat [/quote]

No Doubt! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pete - I see in the classified section that your boat is sold. Is it really true??? Gone???

No. It's off the market. No idea why it's designated as sold.

Well that's good to hear, can't bust your chops if you don't have a boat. Oh, wait.....Robi doesn't have a boat...nevermind.

Pete would a Mk3 A for $4000 keep up with a naked F16
regards

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You would think so!