Fastest Wildest ride yet.

Hi all,

had a great sail on the FCA Blade one up today, in a club race on the Gippsland Lakes. Wind around 20 kts. Very choppy mostly .5m or so I guess.

Learnt a couple of things, when gybing in high winds with kite up and the main traveller near centre to depower. Tipping over is easier to avoid if you release traveller on the way through the gybe.

First gybe of race, capsize was caused when main flicked over and countered my pulling away so much that I couldn't stop it heading up the small amount, that made the main tip it over. On the 3 following runs I released traveller in gybe and was able to avoid capsizing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

After the race I decided to unleash the BEAST <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.

All runs in race I had sat on deck and sailed down with room for error, never realy pushing a bow under, but not going as fast as possible. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So I pulled centre boards up to rope hole height and jumped on trap, foot in strap on back corner of boat, with kite up and main centred. It was WILD <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />, the Blade just sat up on top of the water and went faster and faster, bows occasionaly knifed through a wave but never enough to slow down, the usual slapping of water on hull was gone, only a incredible wooshing noise, unreal ride. Best ever on a F16, my heart is still pounding <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

The major control problem was actualy keeping the boat tracking straight enough to keep in control, it was so loose it could have spun on the spot, no lee helm or weather helm, just extremely touchy steering. Interestingly this situation had come up in discussion with Greg only a few weeks ago. He felt that this would be the limiting factor for one up downwind speed for the F16, as early on the F18's some skippers trapped downwind, but found it so difficult to maintain smooth straight steering from trapeze at top speed that it is now considered best to steer from the tramp. And most F18's do with the kite up.

Control was questionable, but it sure was a huge BUZZ <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

You didn't by any chance have a GPS unit with you, did you ?

Would love to know the F16 top speeds under spinnaker 1-up while trapping.

Wouter

Gary, what kind of tension did you maintain on your mainsheet (backstay) in those conditions?

Gary,

I'm glad I'm not the only one having this problem! I've decided above about 18kts its just too difficult to stay in proper control and so don't wire above that. Keep trying now and again and keep wiping out. No doubt this is more to do with my skill level than anything else.

I just find that the tiller is so sensitive at these speeds and when being thrown about on the wire I cannot steer carefully enough. - the line is too fine.
Good fun trying mind....

Yeah... I would describe the steering as "squirrelly" under spin. It would be nice to have some lee helm to balance it a little more. Just so touchy. If I had an easy answer that wouldn't screw with the nice neutral helm up wind, I would do something about it.
It is a complete BLAST though sailing solo with the spin. I have to lean WAY back in any significant chop though or I will bury it. I haven't pitchpoled under spin though (yet).
When I go over solo with the spin up it is usually due to gybing (thought it does help to let the trav out some when you come around) or when first getting out on the wire and I accidentaly turn town and I fly away from the boat and pull it over on top of me <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Interesting, release the traveler on the gybe in high winds to avoid a capsize.

Yesterday on a downwind leg I over stood the layline a bit. I traveled out and pulled the spiny tight. We were trucking along very nicely almost on a reach and the boat felt very fast. I was trapped out with Tod sitting where I would sit.

how much did you travel out?

I think the reason why letting the trav out when gybing decreases the risk of capsizing is that it decreases the tendency of the boat to round up too quickly before the spin starts drawing.

I was maybe three inches from the end of the track.

thats pretty far. I find that trying to reach too high isn't fast with the spin (but then again, not very fast without the spin in mild-mod conditions either).

dude, where's my shirts? its been what.. like 2 days so far? What kind of operation are you running?

If you let the traveller out while gybing doesn't it make the boat less stable? Doesn't the swing of the main from starboard to port (or vice versa) makes the boat capsize? I thought with the main centered the risk would be lower.

Gill

I uncleat the trav and when the boom comes over I let it out, so there is no real WHAM as it goes over, more like a nice easing. As soon as I release it a little and I feel like things are still under control I cleat it and then slowly pull it up.

I find keeping the boat going dead downwind in the gybe is more important than where the traveler is, but I do let it out quite a bit. I always try to S turn in the gybe, so as the boom comes over, I'm actually steering down more, not up, so when the boom does go -Bam- after crossing over, both bows are squre downwind to absorb the push down, in heavy wind of course.

Then I trim in the spinnaker, head up to course, then bring up the traveler last. This would be when singlehanded obviously.

problem with dead downwind is the accidental gybe back. I find that I need to avoid that area at all costs (unless I am going downwind in survival type conditions without the spin up- in which case I actually prefer to tack than to gybe. of course this is not racing)

I was only talking about being dead down wind for the split second it takes to get the boom across, and as soon as it has gone -bam- I head it up enough so it won't be coming back over. Thus the S turn.

I've never flipped while gybing in heavy wind, only after the gybe, trying to "heat it up" with all sails pulling. I've driven both bows under to the mast many times and recovered, but sometimes not. Once the rudders are out of the water, you're done steering. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I've found that letting the traveller down makes it worse as the sail gains more momentum. My technique is to steer an S hape during the if it's howling. As soon as the main goes over I steer a bit deeper take the power out of the main as it fills. Then get everything sorted and head back up.

gotcha

the problem, in either case, is suddenly rounding up and going over or accidentaly gybing back when you are on the now-downwind side of the boat.

What do you solo guys do with the spinni while you are going through the gybe, and especially when adjusting the traveller out & back in? Like, do you try to control it all?

if the wind is tolerable I might try to sail it across a little but I usually just sacrifice the spin to concentrate on driving for a minute.

I fly the spin through the gybe. If there is much wind, I pay particular attention to my heading. For me, heading up on the new tack while sheeting the spin is guaranteed disaster.

How about mainsheet tension? Keep the boom parallel to the tramp? I ask this because the photo of the boat in last years' worlds with the mast bent forward concerned me. I don't want to break the mast before the honeymoon is over. Greg

It needs to be tight but it doesn't need to be REALLY tight. You can let it out some (hard to describe) without worry. I wouldn't be overly concerned about it as long as you are aware of the fact that you need some tension and it shouldn't be uncleated in a pinch. I have occasionally tripped it out of the cleat when gybing but I usually notice before really powering back up.

As you can see in this picture it's not very windy (sorry it's a bit fuzzy) so I don't have the mainsheet in too tight.

I noticed that you have your boards up a little. Do you only leave them completely down off the wind in light air? My understanding with the Blade is that you start to pull them up when you're starting to trip over your toes off the wind in decent breeze.

talking to Matt when I picked up my boat ("old" style boards, short and fat) he said with them I should leave them down all the time unless things really picked up. My boards don't stay up really well anyway. I have put a little effort into making them stay up but with the philosophy of just leaving them down I haven't had a huge amount of motivation to do so. I do pull them up in high winds, they just don't stay there very well.

My boat has longer boards than most (approx 1m projection below the hulls).

They stay fully down until about 12kts; I then slowly raise then a little as the wind comes up; over about 20 I have them about 2/3 down which is a about the same as a standard Stealth. Once in real survival conditions I bring them up a bit more; maybe 1/2 up.

On the control issue, just an ignorant question. Why is it harder to control a cat from the trapeeze downwind than a 49er, 29er, 18footer etc? What is the physical difference making it harder on a cat? Might it be that we are just a bit less skilled at it?
Two stringing downwind on the Tornado was a buzz, and we rarely did it as the VMG often went haywire, but if it was a race winner, we would have worked on it until we got the skill.

Hi Wouter,

if I had the money for a GPS I would have spent it on some new ropes or cleats or sails by now <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I know it was a lot faster than when I have been clocked at 15 kts. by a rescue boat.

Hi Greg,

I had it pulled in firm, like a tight reach. Still twisted leech.

Yeah Scooby, I followed the idea that it allowed the boom/sail to gain momentum also. But when keeping it centred tipped me over I had to try something else. I think steering the S with the traveller released, stops the main from stopping hard. Certainly worked on the day boom/sail didn't bang hard once with traveller released. It did bang over with traveller centred.

All boats a above have a crew, makes a massive difference if you are not trying to play the kite, mainsheet, traveller and steer all at the same time!!!!!! (and I don't do all 4 very much at all).

Twin stringing with the kite is a breese!

Better comparison might be a MPS, and I think the difference partly that cats do plow the furrow so there is more fore/aft movement which makes keeping the tiller still, we are moving faster, but I think mainly it's a skill issue, we just need to learn to hang on better!

have double trapeze the 49-er under spinnaker as a the skipper I can tell that it certainly isn't any simpler or less sensitive then the F16. I fact it is more sensitive. As Phill likes to say : "That isn't sailing, that's ballet !"

Wouter

But surely, just steering and playing the mainsail is easier?

Unless you have three hands, I would think playing the mainsheet is second priority to trimming the spi?

Yep, but sometimes when sailing long distance races, you need to make a mark / avoid the sand...

Every year we do a long distance race from Osea Island to Clacton and back: link to google maps Clacton is ENE along the coast.

The bit along the coast to/from Calcton is usually a tight reach in one way is most years. I find that the only way to carry the kite on one of these legs if the wind is light is to be out on the wire with the Kite, mainsheet and traveller.

Small gusts you can oversheet the kite, slightly bigger gusts you can let the kite flog, but at times the only thing to do is to dump some traveller/mainsheet, but as soon as you do this, you then need to pull it all back in. (imagine you are sailing along on Starboard) I've found that if you put the tiller under your left shoulder, you can then hold the Spi sheet in your right hand and keep the traveller / mainsheet in place with your left. Big gust comes, you can bear off by moving your left shoulder back a bit and then quickly put the Spi sheet into your left hand and then let some traveller off with the right hand; this allows you to then play the traveller untill the wind settles down again adnthen go back to playing the kite; it is just about possible to play the Spi too, but not for long.

It is a high-risk game as if you get a big gust you end up on the beach and so you have to sail a few 100m offshore (in slightly less wind) to make sure you have time to come in and drop the kite if need be.

Sounds like I better start saving up for a prosthetic arm or two..