Am I dreaming?

Or did a whole thread just get zapped?

I kinda like it, obvious censorship issues aside. If it were going to happen, should have been a long time ago.

Well maybe, but it's not the only way to deal with it. It has been fascinating to watch some individual's M.O.'s.

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Sometimes an example must be set... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It was removed as it was not serving any purpose.

Yes it seems like they really don't want to talk boat weight after all. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Something about "people living in glass houses" and they threw in the towel directly. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It revealed to me a few F16 issues.

1, F16 is not yet a viable alternative to A class or F18 if you are a professional sailor or want to race against professional sailors at that level and it will be some time before it gets there, 10 years maybe.

2, F16, with maybe 150 boats doesn't justfy the hype that surrounds it.

3, The F16 weight thread wasn't effectively dealt with by your class management. Who asked what ratherbsailings Taipan actually weighed? The answer is worth the research.

Darryn
Mozzy
1782

1. How many professional sailors are there really? Why do we want to cater for professional sailors? Will professional sailors really come to the F16 if the weight is changed? I don't believe that many are even in the crew weight ballpark? I thought sailing was for everyone...not just the professionals.

2. The only "hype" that surrounds F16 is on the web. Web based hype should always be taken with a grain of salt, it is too easy for anyone with half a clue to publish, which in turn builds the hype. What you should be looking at is the printed media for a true indication of the level of hype there is around the boat...not much properly published articles are around yet.

3. It was asked of ratherbsailing very early on (first or second page)...my recollection is that it wasn't answered, although it may've been lost in all the personal attacks and OT responses. The reason for the lack of response is unclear, although I don't think ratherbsailing responded much to the topic through its troubled, short life...

I do agree though that the class management dropped the ball on that thread. Although when someone has an axe to grind, there's not a lot that can be done about it online, short of moderation or lawsuits...

IMHO it would be better to "lock" threads that violate the terms of use rather than delete them, that way you can still read them but not contribute.

Yeah, my preference too. We can remind ourselves who the idiots are and always have ammunition for future battles.

Reload!

Medic!

The reason I did not answer was, I was contacted by persons within the F16 group not to continue with the thread as the class needed more stability(there words not mine) so I gave up and watched it all go to hell.Now hopefully this weekend the boat will go on a class set of scales and I will have an official measurement when this is done I will be happy to publish if this does not offend the moderators or any official with in the F16 group.As a boat owner I think I should have the rite to question rules or ask question regarding the future of the f16 class even if they step on toes. For me this has put a little doubt whether this was a good class choice. I would like to see the GC take charge and make some harsh but fair decisions.

Such as

1/ remove all but one of the moderators as these persons caused more trouble than they moderated.

2/ Get the much needed association's formed so the class can move forward with some of the pressing issues.

3/This forum should remain open to ALL even if some do not like what is posted.

I also would like to say by removing the F16 Weight thread this has only put it in the back round for a short while it will come back and it ain't over yet.

Well said. I think the moderators did more damage than good. Plus private contact telling you to basically to "shut up" is really not in line.

Profesional was probably the wrong word to use. Perhaps sailors who are looking for serious competition.

Perhaps some hard to argue facts and truths came out and it was thought best to hide the issue.

Objecting to it here may see it discussed in open forums or on other sites where the moderators have less control and the audience is greater.

Okay,

Now I officially had it with the following guys !

Yes, that means Macca, TornadoAlive, TaipanFC, Mattaipan, Ratherbesailing, Buccaneer and now Darryn too.

It you guys are not happy with the F16 class as it is now and is developping then pack your bags and buzz off. You all had you say multiples times and now is time to put up or shut up ! The rest of the world simply does NOT agree with you and never will. Accept it.

And please don't start bitching about boat weights again. My homebuild boat weights 121.8 kg ever since the beginning of the class and it never has been an item on this forum and I was never prevented from making this public knowledge. Now that some homebuilder achieves the same weight or worse every other in the land is screaming that sky is falling. What a load of crap.

Several homebuilders have build lighter and even down to minimum weight, lets not forget that homebuild taipan were build down to 102 kg overall weight and adding a spi doesn't take 20 kg ! So if you don't achieve the class minimum then you only have yourself to blame; same would apply to myself if I had any desire to blame anybody.

You have all been told several times that we understand your arguments but don't agree with them. You have been told how to officially progress your rule change idea's but you all refuse to follow those paths like normal people. All you want to do is kick up dust on a public forum and repeate the same arguments over and over over again. If you had been serious then you would have send in a rule change proposal months ago, but none of you did.

Ergo, guys are only trying to wreck the F16 class, nothing more nothing less. I have absolutely no respect for dishonourable behaviour like that. In my eyes that is sufficient grounds to be reprimanded, deleted and finally be banned althogether. You guys are already a long way up that ladder !

That is called policing rather then censoring.

Now all you guys make a decision. Become F16 members and play by the rules like everybody else or simply buzz off.

Wouter

At the request of the poster I have edited this post.

So if someone doesn't agree with your views, and discussion continues to be made on this topic much to your chagrin, then we are wrecking your class?

And as for those Aussies, not all of them are in the one location. Actually far from it.

I think it was a bold step the f16 class took to air their debates and allow others in and show what an OPEN minded class they are ,it was never going to be an easy route , you would have to be naive to think so .

now unfortunately , as things haven't worked to plan the OPENESS has withdrawn .F16 have changed face with a keystroke .

The fact that the debate on weight in some peoples minds was counterdestructive should not have forced them to remove the thread, if let to run long enough perhaps something good would have evolved from it ,
as it see it F16s have evolved from debate and arguement in open forum,for better or worse , (in my mind better ) its a shame F16 have abandoned this concept just because they couldn't deal with adverse comment and resorted to censorship.

As to lambast other countries with paranoid accusations I reckon thats more worthy of censorship (not that I suggest it )

If F16 want to show they have balls they should take the theme back on board and run with it , perhaps keeping minds open and considering their response to adverse comment a bit more carefully before posting .

or you could always remove my post , who would know ???

Thanks for the complement, I am sure the other skipps appreciate being called winers..... However winners is spelt with two n’s mate.



You mean the place that breads the worlds best cat sailors. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



The rest of the World or those F16 sailors on this forum. Might be a bit different if it is discussed in the open forums or other open forums where some other knowledgeable and non bias sailors (without blinkers) frequent.



I seem to remember Marcus voice his concerns about the weight too. I would love to hear his thoughts about the potential for rule exploitation in the class too.



You just don’t get that a Taipan was never designed for spinnaker loads. Extra weight comes through structural reinforcement, increased hull volume on top of the hardware.



You don’t agree with them because we are wrong or it is detrimental to the F16 class. Why would I invest in a class so as to make rule changes that may not happen until it is too late. I am very serious about a 1 man / 2 man 16 footer and will be buying one. But doubt I will become part of the F16 class as it currently stands.



Nothing more or nothing less...... Not even close
Censorship will hardly solve the problem or stop the talk.

I might be mistaken, but I don't believe I have tried to wreck the F16 class at all. I'd like to be shown where this has been the case, if it has.

I think your issues are more from a personal point of view, which is fine by me, the feeling is very much mutual.

If I am to be banned from the forum, I would like the moderators to contact me with the reasoning behind that decision, as I don't know how high the ladder is, or how high I have climbed.

Paragraph Deleted, as I may fall from top of said ladder, with my views on whom is causing the most damage to the F16 class.

Steve - Come join us in Taipan fleet, you'd be more than welcome.

It was removed because the weight issue had been discussed at length.

The main thrust was that Macca and Sue wanted to constantly repeat the same things, many members of the class had explained that if THEY, non owners of an F16 wish to change the class rules, the method by which this can be done had been clearly explained to them.

They continued to make the same points over and over after this was explained to them.

It we obvious that they had motives and their sole aim was in damaging the class by repeating the same things constantly hoping that someone would believe them.

The F16 has a minimum weight in the class rules. If someone chooses not to build down to the min weight then that is their outlook. Current manufactures of the F16 are producing boats down to the min. weight.

How about we discuss the benefits of the F16 with owners and prospective owners instead of feeding the likes of Macca who are just coming to the F16 forum to make trouble.

Subject closed.