Wouter?

What did you guys do to him? Haven't seen him on here in a month.

Dont worry,... he is in my basement.

Davy Jones's Locker has a basement?

I saw him post on the main board a couple days ago. See? You complain about him posting so much and then miss him when he doesn't.

No he is still writing up some long post refuting something. Just going to be a lot longer than normal...

Or he just ran out of pompous pontifications and just expired.

Or some whacky Austrian (not Australian) sex fiend kidnapped him and he's ended up in the proverbial basement.

I want Wouter to return, refreshed and reinvigorated by his abscence, 2009 the year of Wouters return ( well it is good fun when he gets going telling the world how it should or shouldn't be )

Or maybe he went sailing? That would be a change.

you guys are really something....

It's been my observation that Wouter is correct a LARGE/Overwhelming percentage of the time w/ his well researched and well thought-out points-of-view. Everytime I disagree w/ Wouter when I take the time to think over his points I have reached the conclussion that Wouter was/is correct and I hadn't thought the problem/issue completely through .... and of course no-one (w/ an ego, especially me) wants to admitt that they were/are wrong.

Wouter, May your holidays be full of Happiness, Friendship, Good Food and some excellent Madeira. Travel Safe ... until we hear from you again ....

HarryMurphey

I think W has personal issues? He could be wise to take up other interests like poetry for instance!!

And whats wrong with poetry ?

www.authorsden.com

Go to J and scroll down to Tony Jenkins and 72 of mine are there to be read.

I think I have been away for longer then that Karl.

And I think I will remain "away" for considerably longer still.

I still read the forums once in a while.

Happy new year to all and best of succes in whatever you guys are occupied with in daily life.

Wouter

I tried sending you a PM, but your box was full.

Sorry Karl,

I've kept my inbox full to avoid receiving any more catsailor mail. Also with the forum software upgrade I have to "loose" over 100 mails in order to get below the upper limit and I really didn't have the taste to sort through all these mails to find out which can go and what should be archived.

Please use my normal mail account if you want to contact me.

Wouterhijink(at)hotmail.com

With kind regards,

Wouter

A healthy and prosperous New Year to you. Stay in touch.

You know, Karl, I want Wouter back for a while for some insight into the numbers and quality of the FX One is Europe.

How does it compare with the F16. Both are one-up, wave-piercing. How many of them in Europe? Is the F16 hotter?

Woot for Wouter! I got your back, man. What is happening?

Okay, I'll bite this time.

Here are my personal views on the FX-one class in Europe. In the pst I would dig up Europeans and National results and provide references to them. But this time I'll allow myself only to provide an update on the latest results, those of the 2008 Europeans. The rest I'll provide from memory and you can research the validaty of that yourself using google.

One thing always pisses me off though, Hobie typically only names the first 3 placings of each class and never names the total number of participants. Therefor one always has to dig deep to get the full results and know how many were there.

http://hobieracing.dk/2008multi/results/08fxone.htm

Looking over the results you'll find 5 boats racing (3xGER, 2xNED ,1xSUI) in Denmark 2008 of which the two Dutch boats never entered a single race. So bsically only 4 boats raced. It is my memory that this is pretty typical for the FX-one class over the years. I believe the FX-one class had the largest fleets when the Europeans were held in Spain (Cagnas 2005?) or France (2006). There were some 11 boats registered then. Typically these results included 5 Dutch boat of 4 sailors are from the same club in Noordwijk and (way) past 50 years old. At that time, Hobie would also quote the birthdates of FX-one crews and I remember two of them being from the 1940's. Actually, Tony Mels and someother guy whose nameI can't remember now are/were by far the youngest sailors in the Dutch FX-one class. Tony has now switched to the F18 class and I don't see Dirk Zwitser turn up at these events anymore (he typically wins them), but even he is close to or past 50 now. Stealth Sailors in the UK report that the FX-one class is dead overthere when it went downhill right after our combined F16/FX-one event back in 2003 I believe. I have never seen signs of it having recovered overthere. I have no intimate knowlegde of the France FX-one fleet or that of other EU nations Although I do know that no boats are to be found in Nations like Norway, Sweden, Finland were there are F16's to be found.

With European results like that, I feel that the F16 class could have called several European championships already. Heck a good number of club races at my home club attracted as many racers. But my personal opinion is that any fleet having less then 10 boats racing is not a Worlds or Europeans.

I'm not sure how many there are in Europe so I have to guess about it. Personally I would expect between 50 and 100 boats.

With respect of the FX-one class racing, I think the average skill level is now higher in the F16 class. In that sense and design wise I truly believe the F16 class is hotter then the FX-one (or nacra 17 for that matter).

The developments in the F16 class are ongoing with the VWM Falcon being the newest installment.And I truly feel that the F16 designers and builders are inputting past experience into their new products, so with each new iteration the boats become better. The FX-one design is getting on in life and hasn't nearly seen the same amount of development. Maybe the icat is going to change that but rumour has it that it won't be qualifiable as a FX-one anyway so ...

Having said all this I think the F16 class could do better in Europe, but maybe we have got to give some more time. Afterall, there is an economic downturn to take into account and sailboats are luxury products by definition.

Wouter

Maybe a small correction for Finland, I have the feeling that there are more FX One around than F16. Valtteri may know the exact number.
Finland is a Hobie country and there seems to be no way to change that

Wouter, did you realize that "woot" means a "celebratory exclamation" in American slang? Also that the word hijinks refers to "boisterous celebration"? That would make the root of Wouter Hijinks a celebratory exclamation in a boisterous celebration.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

As much as I lusted over a F16, a deal came along on an FX that I couldn't refuse.

At any rate, I did some poking at FX history and noticed that Hobie stated sales at over 1,000 boats. How many made it over here is hard to tell.

It appears to me that the FX somewhat pioneered the wave-piercing bow and the one-up design. It did those things before the F16 did those things. That so?

Also, what is the deal with the FX's portsmouth ratings compared with F16? F16 has less sail area? All this to ask how is it that the FX appears to somewhat stranded between the 16 designs and the 17 designs. At least so it seems.

I like this boat. I hope parts support stays around a good while, although it appears that maybe a shakeout is imminent. (I thought I heard Mr. Obama in tonight's speech say that he guaranteed my FX would be supported unconditionally no matter how unpromising the future...)

It appears to me that the FX somewhat pioneered the wave-piercing bow and the one-up design. It did those things before the F16 did those things. That so?



[/quote]

It is thru that the F16 is done beyond the FX one but the FX is not a pioneer at all, the wave piercing idea, what ever that may mean ( selling feature ) . The original plan of the FX is coming from A-class it is more or less a bad modified/copied A-class Flyer, done by Nils , it was around 1999 or 2000 i believe.

Just for your info,

Hans

The FX was and to me still is a nice looking Cat. I remember going to the UK Boat Show in London and seeing the FX One for the first time and I was really impressed. However, I'm really glad I never actually purchased a FX. This is because I sail on Coastal Waters (not a lake) and wanted to sail recreationally (without a safety boat). Sailing a FX single handed even in moderate to light wind conditions could still be a risky exercise due to the weight of the FX mast. As previously mentioned it belongs on an F18 not a Cat originally designed for the single handed market. Nowadays the FX's are tending to be marketed for the two up's and I'm not surprised as in my opinion they are too dangerous to be sailed single handed for the average to lighter person to sail (185-160 lbs 84-72kgs)
So please be careful and I hope your future will not be to uncompromising.

Ha !

But seems fitting somehow.





To this I would like to replay of a very long standing opinion of mine, ever since the start-up of the F16 class. I strongly feel that the F16's, FX-ones and I17R/F17's (older EU I-17 are too slow however) should just race eachother on elapsed time. There is not enough between them to make a meaningful difference in any (recreational) racing.

I hope to see more combined fleets having fun together in the future.




I have always a very hard time believing such claims. For a boat that has been sold over a 1000 times, mostly in Europe, it is still a pretty rare sight at regatta's. Not to mention ONLY 6 boats at last years Europeans. Currently the F16 class has about 150-200 boats the world over depending on how you count (Taipan 4.9 class has 300 the world over) and you sure don't see less of them at Texel etc then the FX-one's for example.


The pioneering is most A-cat related. Nils Bunkenburg and Peter Eigner tried it first on a A and then Nils copied the idea to the Hobie Fox and then the FX-one. F16 came about 2 years after the FX-one launch if I remember correctly and started without with a wave-piercer hull shape (Taipan, Stealth) and it was only later introduced to the class with the Blade. The F16 class was never about a specific design detail like that. Always about a set of general performance limiting rules to garantee level (first in wins) racing among different designs. Maybe in time the F16 designs move away from wave-piercers hulls again, we don't know.




The mainsail area and spinnaker area between both are as good as identical. The FX-one length is only 8 to 10 inches more and that is not enough to make a meaningful difference either. The measurement based systems predict slower performance due to the high ready to sail weight of the FX-one (around 150 kg) and the Portsmouth ratings are most likely influences by the lack of development in the FX-one class and the lack of top tier sailors in the class.

I wish you they best of enjoyment with your FX-one, it is not a bad boat at all !

Wouter

It is also my personal opinion that the FX-one feels better when sailed 2-up with a light to medium crew. I feel this is due to the stiff mastsection (only a little automatic depowering or power control), very long daggerboards (tripping) and the volume distribution of the hulls. The FX-one sits better in the water with about 130 kg on board and I found it to be a fast ship that way when fitted with the 4.15 sq. mtr jin (also of the F18). It felt like it had more grunt and was able to better transform it into speed then.

Wouter

That's interesting. I have wondered about the mast setup. The nice thing about being a rookie is that all technical information/opinions are more or less on equal footing until verified. Not as a matter of skepticism.

One reason I did not look at the A cat too seriously was the whole "power to platform" thing -- which is mast/sail power that is placed on the hull/crossbars. Seems almost like putting a 400 hp engine in a Volkswagen. Some want it and obviously can handle it.

The FX mast is listed at 27' 7" but appears to measure a little over 28'. However, the Blade mast is 28' also. Your comment had to do with mast weight, though. At 230 lbs and 6, I can balance (carefully) the mast with one hand. It doesn't appear all that heavy (I will weigh it.) Possibly you are talking about the mast plus the additional weight of all the accessories? It would interesting to compare the F16 total mast weight with that...

Despite the fine points, the question is still answered, I think, in that the power of the boat is at the edge for what the platform can handle. I noticed something interesting in Jeremy Evans review of the FX: That according to Gavin Colby, whom he listed as the FX's designer, the FX becomes "difficult" in 25 knot winds. No answer in the article as to why. But I deduced from the context that the boat was way overloaded.

My next thought was that maybe all big performance cat design seem to run into this problem of balancing sail to platform.



Duh on me, I can't find that mention. And the search engine fails me...

...which backs up Mark P's thought? Depowering and the problem of board tripping I have heard mentioned. Seems like depowering is where it's at. Prefer not spending all my time screaming "slow down, dammit, SLOW DOWN" ONLY, if you know what i mean.

I'd say that a boat that becomes difficult in 25 knot winds is actually quite tame. My blade is a challenge at 18 knots and scary in winds over 20 knots, and i'm definitely not a feather weight.

Yeah, Simon, I wondered if someone was going to question that quote. The point in the article was that Colby is an incredible talent and even he was admitting to troubles with a boat that he designed apparently to handle those conditions and up. My guess.

Anyway,for the responses, thanks. I am going to sail out of F16 forum now before I get harassed for talking Hobie in F16 land.

Come back to the light!!

The FXone starts getting difficult in much over 15kts. At 25kts you're in a world of trouble. I haven't sailed anything other than a bigger keel boat that wasn't though.

There are about 5 FXones in Ireland- don't race much on the open circuit, and are always left sitting by the Spitfires.

So we have located 5, now just 995 to find...

I seriously doubt there is a 1k of them out there, more like 400. Sail numbers are in the mid 500's I believe and they probably started production boats at 100, but I don't know that and I'm just taking a stab at where they started.

I'd bet there's 100 in the US, but nobody races them. I can think of about 9-10 boats that I know of. A dealer in Cali said he sold a dozen last year, but once again to nobody who races.

Being a Hobie sailor, I looked to the Hobie family when I wanted to upgrade. When I saw the FX One, I said, "now there's a cool looking performance cat." But I looked for over a year for a used one. One here and there would come on the US market, but they'd get snatched up. I actually have an easier time finding a used Blade.

I was willing to drive from Minnesota to New Jersey to get mine. Fortunatly the previous owner had some friends somewhere in between and I met him in Pennsylvania. The used ones are hard to come by, that's for sure. They seem to come in spurts, none for 6 months, then theres three for sale listed in various places.

One of the FX One owners at Datchet has tried a Stealth carbon mast on his boat with great success, seems to counter a lot of the problems such as single handers not being able to right the boat and in his opinion seems that it also makes the boat easier to sail. On changing over the masts we measured them against each other with both being almost equal length but the diamonds and spinnaker hoist position being over 400mm higher on the FX one. Weight was the telling stat, over 20 kilos against 13 but more tellingly the FX1 was nearly 10kgs at the tip against 5.5 for the Stealth. Now our scales were only bathroom scales so you could plus or minus that 1/2 kilo probably.

So anybody buying a FX1 should perhaps buy the platform from Hobie and buy a Carbon mast from Stealth marine, bet you would save a lot of money as well.