Falcon

How has there NOT been a discussion of the new Falcon on here? or did I miss it?

BTW... I want to see pics of the rudders.

You know, I wanted to hear about it too!!! Any pics?

It looks like an Infusion, in that it has rounded topsides foreward of the mast. The tramp is laced up the sides like the new F18's too. Gina said she liked it but it is harder to lay on the hulls up front in light wind as they are round on top. Matt was using the standard Blade rudders but has some other shape coming. Nice looking boat. No, I didn't have a camera.

I took some pics and sent them to M&G yesterday.

I was wondering what logo that was (3rd sail from the left).
Is it a new design? Who's is it?

It is a new design from Matt McDonald. I'm sure he'll post the pictures soon.

Nah, Tim, you misunderstood me. If I'm laying on the bow of the boat, then I shouldn't be sailing. We do not like bobbing in light air. As for the bow differences, I have to have my weight more forward vs. toward the back on the Blade in the downwind blows. I like it very much as it seems more stable for Matt and I. I also like how it reaches - again, very stable. Like the Blade, I'll have to get used to the difference in weight positioning - every time I went out on the wire, I ran into Matt. And I can't wait for the lines to get a bit more worn and for them to stay tied. New boats... You'll have to take it for a ride and I'll even crew for you if you promise not to hurt me. Oh, I miss my purple spinnaker too.

I was hoping the design was a little more friendly in terms of the bows burying. Sounds like it is.
wash the lines in a washing machine... that ought to make them more friendly!

Boy, am I behind things...SO Matt is making a new F16? the Falcon? Is VW still making the Blade? I would like to see photos too.
See you all at the Invitational in April!!!

That, my friend, is up to the driver!

Ok, this is really exciting and only a little talk?

What's the weight, design differences .......????


I know I'm getting a Viper, but any new F16 boat is great for the class!!!!


Mike

I only spoke to Matt briefly. The weight is at or near minimum, the rocker is farther forward than the Blade. The obvious visual difference is hull volume. The Falcon seems to have more volume than either the Viper or the Blade. There is a "hump" (saddle?) that the rear cross bar sits in.

I could not tell any difference in performance. M&G rock regardless of the boat they are sailing!

I couldn't tell any difference in the sails, Glasers, but wasn't really looking.

The Falcon uses a high aspect board.

There are some photos courtesy of Dingram on the F16 website forum, as well as some detail expaining the differences between the 2 designs.

There should be some shots underway when the Tradewinds phots are published, and we will be doing some more set up-tuning and 2 boat testing as soon as the weather warms up.

M

how about posting some here for those who aren't members yet

Here you go.

Remember, it was on the class forum first
http://formula16.net/forum
Directly: http://www.formula16.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

https://home.comcast.net/~smalldog266/smalldog266/Pictures/F16_Falcon/DSC_0018.JPG
https://home.comcast.net/~smalldog266/smalldog266/Pictures/F16_Falcon/DSC_0019.JPG
https://home.comcast.net/~smalldog266/smalldog266/Pictures/F16_Falcon/DSC_0021.JPG
https://home.comcast.net/~smalldog266/smalldog266/Pictures/F16_Falcon/DSC_0022.JPG

You can join the forum without being members; you can then post in the public area; members get to see more!!!

In the starting line photo above you may notice there were 4 F16's starting with the F18 class at Tradewinds. This was a change to the original start sequence that had the F16's starting 3 minutes behind the F18's. Matt pushed for this change and he went to every F18 skipper to ask permission first.

Thanks F18 Skippers for allowing us to start with you, I hope we didn't adversly affect your starts or finishes, it was great practice for us since we would have been very few starting alone.

Incidently, there were several F18 Skippers who said they wanted to start with the Inter 20's, so maybe next year we should push the RC to start all the spinnaker boats together?

Tim, please don't assume "more is better" when you're not racing against the "more" because for many it's not better.

If a fleet has the numbers like the 20 class did they deserve their own start. You never see classes with the numbers soliciting the classes with smaller numbers it's always the other way around (in my experience). If you guys hadn’t approached us I would have been perfectly happy starting with the eight we had. It’s hard to look at a friend and say piss off.

For me, getting our own start is a perk for getting the numbers on the line in the first place.

Ding, first thanks for not saying "piss off"

I can see your point, but.... If I was in a the fleet with 40 and there were other boats of "similar" capabilities I would be all for getting them on the line as well.

More boats for me improves the racing. (I do not want something of drasticly differing performance in the mix like adding the Wave fleet) Big fleet starts are something we do not get to have very often and it is the biggest thrill and advange to having a "fleet" for me. Having more boats, is also (IMO) the best way to force one to improve their boat handling skills.

I do not agree with the argument about getting run over or up by another boat that is not being scored with you. On the line you are forced to race everyone and the guys who win regularly will still come out ahead with more baots, and developing those skills (or any skills) is why I race. Name a race besides a 1 design or class nationals where there are not other boats on the course that may or may not effect your outcome in a race wheter it is on the starting line or not. The Waves were not starting with us at Tradewinds, but I know they effected me on a number of occasions, and Mike Hill even a bit more. Dodging boats is all part of the tactics same as missing crab pots and trying to pick shifts.

This may not be everyones opinion obviously, but I go to regattas for the social aspect, but I race becuase I am trying to learn more every time I am on the boat. The moment I have quit learing, I am done. The more boats on the course the more it is mixed up and the more there is to learn.

Matt, we've had this debate before and neither one of us have changed our position, kind of like that drill baby drill thread or the change the rating system thread.

In all honesty if you guys had more than 4 boats I would have problaby said no thank you. Bottom line, if the fleet I'm racing in has decent numbers and for me 8 is decent then adding fleets I'm not racing against doesn't enhance the experience for me. I have to race mixed fleets most of the of the season, I'd like to have a couple of regattas were it's just one fleet and for me it's Tradewinds and Spring Fever.

Personally I must agree with Matt. How challenging is a start with 8 boats? Everyone easily parks front row...

Same for bouys and tactics as a whole.
I think you are pushed more to the limits of your own sailing in bigger fleets -> more progress

While I did enjoy the mixed fleet racing, there is no doubt it cost me a place or two when we got stuck at A mark, coming in on port with a wall of F18's coming in on starboard. We had to tack low of the layline, wait for them to go by, then tack twice more to get around A, while M+G went by on starboard. Still, it is much more of a challenge and teaches you how to deal with that situation better next time.

I can see Ding's point too, I hope I didn't cause any F18's to lose some placings while trying to avoid me. Personally, I would prefer if we each had 15-20 boats (or more) of each class on it's -own- start.

Ding, did you hear any complaints about us being there? I don't need names, etc, just a general feeling. I don't want to piss anybody off either.

The FALCON looks great! I bet it can FLY.

agreed, looks great Matt, good job.

Listen it's not that big of a deal but there are just a couple of times a year I'd prefer to start and race against my fleet. And Tim, nobody said anything to me, what would have been the point you talked to everyone in the fleet, right?

Are there any elapsed time results from Tradewinds?

I'm still waiting on the elapsed time from Area D south!

There was a H17 and two Sharks sailing portsmouth. I'm not sure why any other times would have been taken.

So am I.

Some interesting reading over here.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=165509&page=2

"Todd, you want the numbers done right volunteer to crunch the numbers. It's been my experience the OA will happily hand off this task.
_________________________
David Ingram
F18 #672
http://www.naf18.com "

When will the Falcon be available on the market?

I think it is available now. At least I know of -one- that is. Drop Matt a private message and he will tell you.