sailing uni

What's the best way to do it?

Keep the mast pointed generally in the direction of the sky

I think I feel a challenge coming!

Who thinks Matt ought to jump into the Uni fleet?

Seriously, I'm having a lot of trouble going to weather (always have). What do you uni guys do? Some of you are pointing almost with the A class.

If Matt goes Uni, I call Dibbs on Gina!



But seriously, we may someday get enough of both to have two fleets scored. Not that I am trying to cut the class in half, I am not, I am trying to award more trophys, keep more people coming back for more racing. Like Mike Borden did with the Top Uni Bottle of Rum! Thanks Mike.

Pete,
I have the same problem as you when going to windward, that is getting out on the trapeze; however, I did this past weekend and it helps, BIG TIME.

If it's blowing, get out on the TRAPEZE, that will help you point and keep the boat down better. I was still a little slow, but I think there were two reasons for this...

1. I needed to move my body more forward on the boat. I was at or a little behind the sidestay and the bows were out of the water which creates drag... I needed to move more forward, but I didn't because I'm still getting used to doing this....


2. I was probably pointing a little high trying to keep the boat down which is a little slow...

So, get out, sheet in as much as possible and keep the boat down....


Of course, I'm a newbie, so what do I know!!!!


Mike

Mike, here's a little trick you can try to see if it helps. When it's really blowing hard, try pulling up your daggerboards a little bit (6" if racing, more if just practicing) when going up wind. This will settle the -up- hull down in the puffs, it won't fly as quickly so you can keep better control of the boat.

The single most important thing you need to do is to see the puffs coming down the lake, and prepare for them in advance. Unclete the main and be ready to ease it as the puff comes on, and try not to round up into the puff as that will just slow you down. Try to keep the up hull at a constant height and try to keep driving in a straight line, ease the main when the puff comes on then trim it back in as the puff passes.

Every time you wiggle the rudders, you are putting on the brakes, so try to keep a staight line. (look back at your wake to see if you are going straight).

Once you get comfortable doing this with the boards up a bit, then put them back down and do it some more. There is no substitute for practice though, so get out and sail it as often as you can.

A possible solution (dependents on the cut of your mainsail)

Crank on the downhaul hard (after the mainsheet is already tight) and let out some mainsheet. The top with both flatten and open up and start to stream. You have to find the right setting and may point a little lower then the other boats but have a hell of a VMG due to high speeds.

Wouter

I'd suggest NOT cleating the mainsheet at all going up wind. It's too slow.... You need to react more quickly than that.

THe only time I cleat is if I need the extra hand to do someting else or the kite is up - usually faffing around on the tramp when it is light. If I need to pull more Downhal I hold the sheet in my rear hand and put the tiller uner my arm.

Saturday I pulled the crew trapeze wire off completely, and tied a line between the two bungees for the remaining single trap to run on. That cleans up the work space for me and allows me to get my weight further forward without getting onto the crew's wire. The result was that I was able to go to weather much better and actually slipped past Matt & Zack in 1 race (of 4 races)! That doesn't happen very often! Before Kelly Park the jib cleats and the self tacker are coming off. It seems that in the 6-8 knot range the boat points a little better if I sit right next to the mast rather than trying to crawl out on the hull. Currently, that means sitting on the jib cleat! Hopefully, getting back on board will be easier if the tacker is out of the way.

Oh! And I took Wouter's advice and opened everything up so the rig could breathe: no outhaul, minimum downhaul, no rotation, the very lightest sheet tension possible. When the wind picked up, it was necessary to limit the rotation a little, maybe 15 degrees?

Actually, opening up the rig doesn't mean throwing everything loose. It refers to the how the sail looks. It should not have too much draft or a hooking leech. In fact a leech that falls off by bit is often best. (But not always).

Each sail is different in what to do with the controls to achieve this. On my boat (but I have a mainsail with a building error) I need to pull the downhaul on to high medium, rotate relatively far out and use little sheet tension. Outhaul is such that just a fist is between the boom and sail at midpoint. This seems to work best for me when singlehanding in light winds. In strong winds I crank on the downhaul very hard, have the rotation arm points to the back of the daggerboard (= to much for properly cut sails) and reasonable mainsheet tension.

My mainsail will flatten out towards to top and have a noticeable (but not alot) of twist. Medium winds condition I sail with a more tight rig; here I need to pull very hard on both downhaul and mainsheet as per advice of Daniel van Kerckhof (Taipan champ). AND I MEAN HARD !

These settings may not work for you and are probably specific to my mainsail design (with the known error). In my case I have too much draft in the top of my mainsail. This was just to show that opening up the rig is different from releasing all the controls. It just refers to not hooking the leech or sail with to little twist. Nor increase draft to much if looking for power; it if often better to flatten the rig open up the head and let the sail stream. Also a lesson by Daniel "Flat is fast". You'll feel less powered up but may well go faster never the less. Never, and I mean NEVER, adjust the rig setting to your position on the boat (liking keeping you or your crew on the wire) set the rig for max speed and adjust your position to maintain that setting. Not following this simple rule (a common mistake) can make a huge difference to performance; especially so to the F16's.

And ohhh ask JC for advice and trim tips. He seems very willing to give us some pointers after having sailed the F16's at the Alter cup 2007.

I hope this helps

Wouter

I'm having no luck at all with a flat sail. I recently installed a Ronstan cleat,so that I get good, positive control of the outhaul. When I pull the sail flat. The boat stops. If I give it 50-60 mm of draft and loose mast rotation, it goes just fine. I was matching course and speed with Matt & Zach (Viper)with everything "loosey-goosey". As an experiment, I tightened the main slightly and they began to close immediately.

And JC is abroad these days. You'll probably run into him before I do.

This puzzle is great fun! Life is good!

Thanks for all your help.

Pete,

Do you have an Ullman F16 sail by any chance.

If so then everything is in reverse.

That sail is actually too flat and has its leech fall away to quickly and too much.

So the old rule of thumb still applies, each sail is different.

And you say; if you stay up with the leaders then you are doing something right so remember the settings/what you've done for a later time.

Best of luck

Wouter

No, I have a brand new set of Goodalls.

I think my problem is primarily weight and weight distribution. I weigh 100-105 kg. and positioning is critical, within 5-10 cm. Recently, Stefan (70 kgs?) was on board as crew. I was sitting in, just aft of the shroud. We could not go to weather until he swung forward on the trap. The moment he got near the bridle, the boat took a hitch to weather on it's on. No tiller movement on my part. When he passed a certain point there was a physical jerk and the boat was pointing almost ten degrees higher! From that moment, we were approximating course and speed with Jennifer and Fred on her F18. Hence the conclusion for weight distribution. Weight needs to be forward of the CLR, at least with my short boards.

For us "bigger" boys I'm starting to think mast rake has something to do also with the heading ability of the F16's, it seems the lighter the jocky the further the mast can go back, the higher the heading.

Umm comments from any wise sage out there on this ?

Yeah, that's a point.

I already notice examples of this with my own 85 kg's and you have another 20 on me (+25%).

As Matt always says; weight placement is critical.

I guess you have to be forward of the sidestay alot.

Wouter

"wise sage", not I! But everytime I rake the mast back, the problem only worsens. Mine is straight up, and when all the other variables are correct, the boats performance is just fine!

This recent experience with Stefan was a real eye opener. For us bigger boys, the weight has to be in exactly the right place or you're just pissing in the wind. In my very humble opinion.

"I guess you have to be forward of the sidestay alot." yeh, quite a lot!

Umm...

I've set my boat up so that I have enough mast rake so I have a "bit" of weather helm when sailing up wind. I THink I have more rake than most, but it's difficult to tell, perhaps we should check next time we are all in the same place? On that note, anyone coming to the East coast Piers Race?

Yes I seem to have mine alot further upright than most, if I start to lean it back suddenly I find I can get into " irons " all to easily. The oh wise sage JP advocates leaning the stick back until you do get the " irons " problem then standing it up a little.

I do think though that all our boats have been designed as a compromise for handling a wide range of weights and on occassion a jib and spinnaker, thus the dagger boards are probably further foward than really where a single hander would desire. I looked at a range of A's and all the dagger boards were way back there. Also all the newer designs are moving the beams and dagger boards further back by some way

Virtually all the Stealth owners are up around the stay with the heavier guys further foward again with front foot nearly on the beam on the upwind legs so you are not unique in getting well foward.

Another reason I went for longer boards!!!!



I never get infront of the shrouds with my front foot (I was about 75kg last year - currently a bit more......).

Once the wind comes up I move back a little as the plates come up.

I have the same problem, going into irons without warning. I've loosened my shrouds a good bit and the mast seems to rotate more freely. The result seems to be that tacking is nearly effortless and the "irons" problem has ironed itself out somewhat!

I'm off to Kelly Park in two weeks; we'll see how astute my observations have been!

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Another reason I went for longer boards!!!!

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I'm not sure how long boards help, they simply offer lift at that point. On the Stealth the boards are vertical so making them longer is simply more lift ( and drag ). Elaborate

I'm not sure how long boards help, they simply offer lift at that point. On the Stealth the boards are vertical so making them longer is simply more lift ( and drag ). Elaborate [/quote]

Are you sure they are vertical? I dont think mine are

We found we were fastest when we sailed with less rake than the class norm. Sailing with the class norm our rudders even ventilated at times so we had to sheet out to regain control! With less rake we were seriously fast and went even better to windward. I think we overcomplicate a lot of stuff. Trim rake so the boat tracks straight when going to windward in your dominant conditions and you are fine in my opinion.

Pete, by moving weight forward you get less mast rake quite fast.

I dont advocate sailing with loose shrouds. Your jib tension will hurt in light winds, you want that mast to stand straight all the time and you want to be able to control it. With loose shrouds I find it harder to sail properly, even if the mast is easier to rotate well

"jib tension " No jib! Loose shrouds, but not too loose!

Travel the main out and sheet in, then tighten the shroud, that is what I mean by right and thight And find the balance for mast rake. I bet you can sit by the shroud and sail as fast as the top who sail with "mega rake"..

Rolf, my "loosey-goosey" settings are giving me the best results I've had with the F16 so far. These are for light air, no whitecaps. I'll see what happens at Kelly Park before I change anything else. Of course, if the wind is higher the shrouds will have to be tightened a bit.

If that works best for you, run with it! Dont listen to any mumbo-jumbo before an event at least Afterwards when there is plenty of time, perhaps test my suggestion in a two-boat setting.
I think your observation on better windward VMG with more weight forward is very accurate and it is something I would have worked more on to replicate.

What I learned at Kelly Park:

Basically, weight placement is critical! Going to weather, I keep two toes ( I'm serious) forward of the front cross bar and if the wind drops I slide in and hug the mast. Going forward onto the the weather hull doesn't seem to help. Getting the weather hull out of the water helps a lot.

Downwind, getting the weather hull out of the water is like lighting the after burner!

So, my boat is fine. It points well and is quick off the wind. Now I need to do lots of work on tactics and boat handling. A little preventive maintenance wouldn't hurt.


I did tighten the rig a bit and put on a little bit of rake. Those things need tweaking.

Wish I read this before... our rudder on the T did not only ventilate but break last week-end. Now we join the club, not sailing but laminating

Cheers,

Klaus

How did it break, Old age, fair wear and tear or hit something harder? Big T foils look very robust compared to the more modern designs.
I had a great sail yesterday on the F16 which hadn't been out since the Rutland Cat Open, I have been doing a bit of crewing on a Cork 1720 in the meantime which is a great sportsboat.
The Weather was surprisingly nice after a showery start to the day. The wind was light to moderate and I went out 1 hour prior to a Club race to practice spi gybing from the wire. I hardly ever fly the kite from the wire during a race and it's something I wanted to work on to improve my current dodgy technique. I think it will take another 2-4 hrs to find a good routine for getting out on to the wire and also master a gybe where the spi doesn't collapse as soon as I start to come in off the wire. Having studied Cats racing I reckon a collapsed spi costs on average 2 boat lengths and this is one of the main reasons why I usually sit in downwind.
Do you racers who regularly trap downwind have any video footage of your spi gybes, if so could us minions get to see them somewhere?
The OOD arrived 30mins late for the race and only 1 F18 and a Dart stayed out. I won the race but the wind was so light by 19:00hrs there was no way of trapping up or downwind.

old age (30 years), careless helm (me) and fair winds. Hard to say how much wind, 20kts, maybe 25kts. I wanted to bear away to use a wave for surfing, when I broke the rudder. When I sail on that boat (it belongs my friend), something is breaking. Sort of curse. We are still friends...

That is the story of old Tornados unfortunately, as far as my experience goes. 1987 or more recent Marstrøm Tornados are durable.

Pete, thanks for that thread. Having no one to compare to I find I’ve been way off on my body placement. The mast has been so straight up that I’ve been sailing with my front foot at the side stay. (68 Kg., me)
thanks.

Currently, I'm running a moderate amount of mast rake. Using the trap wire method, the rake is 1" forward of center of the rear port.

I had a chance to talk with Matt over the weekend and he stressed making all movements as smoothly as possible. He cited several specifics of top A class sailors. My tendency is to lurch around like a wounded hippo! Bad form, very bad form.

I've been sailing uni also this weekend (mast settings remained for 2-up mode) -> rake about the same as Pete however.

The wind was about 13 knots and I weigh 72 kg.

I must say that my experience was not in line with my expectations on beforehand...

I thought I would be sailing slower and higher upwind and slower and deeper downwind compared to an Infusion.
However, upwind I had about the same speed and angle as the Infusion. If I steered higher I had no lift and no speed. But to keep a steady speed it was not easy since a small gust made me lift a lot. -> so eventually I lost ground after a while.

Downwind I sailed as fast but deeper so gaining on them.
Downwind it was easier to keep the boat up to speed, so I didn't loose ground here.

What I was really surprised of was that I couldn't steer higher then the 2-up boat (and I was standing at the front stay). Do you have the same feeling or am I missing something?

Hi Gilo,

why do you expect to sail higher than a F18? I guess that they could double trap already. So they are fully powered, have a longer mast and longer boards, two guys on the wire, four hands...
So everything is for the F18, it is quite impressive that you can keep them upwind.

Cheers,

Klaus

I have found that I can not sail any higer 1 up vs 2 up. If anything I go better 2 up because at 70kg in winds over 10knots I tend to pinch more than I should sailing uni. It feels like I am going high but at the end of a leg I am lucky to be even.

There was an A I saw a few years ago that was fitted with a jib. They could go just as high as the uni boats, and a bit faster in the light to med stuff because of the added sail. Then they were a lot faster off the wind.

My personal view of the uni going to weather better is bunk. Its the driver.

Point noted this weekend with strange westerly winds and random chop. We ended up in a mix of H16's and could not point with them for a while. We could go faster, so just kept going sailing the wind and conditions we had at that moment.

Good to hear that this is the same for everyone.
If you sheet in with a main only you feel the boat wants to head up. With a jib fitted this is not the case. Therefore I thought I would point higher.

As Matt says, when I was trying to pinch, the foils stopped working and I ended up lower.

I must say that I was very impressed with the way the Blade behaves uni in those conditions. I have heared the FXone to be quite a beast to handle in 10+ (I'm not sure if it is design or the driver). Anyway, I could trim the Blade so it was very pleasant to sail and not having the feeling I was way overpowered.

And ofcourse the downwind run was a great ride!

Regards,
Gill

1 up beating to wind is all about 'feel'. It's got to be as you don't have any jib tell tales or crew to tell you when you are pinching.
Some solo helms like to go higher and slightly slower, others go lower and slightly faster.
The very best seem capable of doing both (high & fast) but they are paid to do so!
If I were you Gill the next time you sail solo just alter your mast rake slightly further forward and then you might not get that horrible heavy weather helm feeling. Or just let off some tension in your top 2nd & 3rd battens which is a little less time consuming (not sure how well it would work).

Gill,

I have the same experience as you. Same pointing upwind and about the same speed to the F18's and deeper and faster on the downwinds (all when 1-up).

Wouter

I'll give it a try this weekend Mark! Thanks.