Florida combined fleets

Ding we need to combine the F18/16 fleets for Florida residents. We don't have critical mass for either fleet for our year round sailors.

I'm not talking about premier events like Tradewinds, Performance Mid-Winters or the upcoming F16 Nationals. Rather the in state regattas like Wildcat, Kelly Park and others. We already do it fact, it is time to make it offical, start collaborating openly and sharing resources. Which means you need to join GYC.

It's Monday, its wet and cold and I'm too lazy to go to the gym.

So what do you think?

Pete, you and I are exactly on the same page on this issue. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are only a couple of weekend regatta's I go to were I want a separate start and sadly most of the FL F18's and F16' don't go to the other one (Spring Fever), and oddly we agree on this point too.

I'm not sure what resources we are talking about sharing Pete, can you please explain that a bit.

As far as joining GYC, I'm starting to hear things that are a bit off putting. I'll probably join but I won't get involved with the current administration, it doesn't sound like I'd fit in.

FYI, that's a weak excuse not to go to the gym, if I can go you can go... slacker.

Ding

"I'm starting to hear things that are a bit off putting"
Pm me.

An F18 brother from a different mother just pointed something out to me. I'm fine with a combined start but will never support combined results where it requires the use of higher math to compute. Regardless if we are on the same start or not I'm not racing F16's/N20's or whatever, my only competition on the course is other F18's and I will not engage another class unless it's tactically beneficial to me in the F18 fleet. At this time that line item is not negotiable for me, I'd also like to point out I'm only speaking for myself on this issue not the F18 fleet as a whole.

I'm betting that when the same F16 team puts you into second place a few times in a row that you WILL come to race them as if they were an F18.

In the end it is all about bragging rights, right ?

Wouter

Listen research boy, what makes you think that hasn't been happening for the last 4 years! Still not racing them! You be wrong... again.

At a typical Florida regatta I was thinking of a spinnaker fleet with trophies for:

• Line Honors- first boat across wins. That would give the I-20s a chance or any of the open cats for that matter
  
• First F18
• First F16

No formulas, no portsmouth awards. I would hope Portsmouth data would be kept and published because it inerests me (just like baseball statistics)and probably others. It would also provide a means for the curios to compare boats, as unappetizing as that might be. Anything that generates interest in the sport is good, imo.

I like your thinking... wish you would come over for Hagar, there is a party planned for Saturday night that would be a good place bounce these ideas around.

Dave

Let's see:

• Hagar- sailing, talking about sailing, talking about sailors
• Venice- talking to wife's farm relatives about the prices of soy beans and hogs. Not sleeping on the couch for a month.

Yep, Venice is lovely this time of year.

Pete, you really need to look into a more comfortable couch!

"I'm not sure what resources we are talking about sharing Pete, can you please explain that a bit."

Our only real resource is people. Have we ever tried to conduct a census and establish a budget? If we determine who our participants are, we might discover their preferences and limitations. For instance, an increasing number of people favor three day events. But that presents a hardship for working people with families. At least one sailor of my acquaintance opted out of Tradewinds because he didn't want his children to miss more school. Weather played a part in that decision as well. I'm not suggesting we ask Rick to go back to a two day format, but we might want to try and rework the format of an existing regatta to accomodate families with children.

Imo, the A class has executed a brilliant marketing strategy by teaming up with the 505s for a regatta. That exposes them to an entirely different segment of the boating public. Can we identify a similar opportunity?

My intention is not to criticize anyone, but to build on existing strengths. Before that can happen, those strengths have to be identified.

There are at least two very easy opportunities to get more exposure for cats right here in middle FL.

One is showing up at the Sarasota Sailing Squadron for some of their big dinghy regattas, and the other is showing up at the Lake Eustis Sailing Club for some of their big dinghy regattas.

In years past (my Inter 20 days) I contacted the clubs directly to ask if we could come to their regattas, I was always told they would welcome us, on a -one design- basis only, no time keeping. All we need to do is get enough of one class registered and then show up.

The one big problem we had in Sarasota was, they put us on the "Big Boat" course because of our speed I guess, which was stupid, as we would rather race lots of short courses vs. one or two very long courses. We just need to iron that part out.

Oh, BTW, I prefer the 2 day format at any regatta. 2 days really means 3 or 4 when you include the travel days. 3 days of racing means 4 or 5 days of "time away" from mamma or work, or both.

Pete, nobody can in all good conscience use the three day format as a reason to opt out. There is a provision that allows you to race only two days if you wish and you have the option to sail Fri/Sat or Sat/Sun. I don't have an issue with doing what it takes to make event more doable but I don't want to waste any energy chasing down red herrings and the "I didn't do Tradewinds because it's 3 days" is a red herring.

I can tell you this regarding budgets for the paper clubs like SCCA the regatta price reflects our cost. Now, from time to time we might get lucky and make a few bucks and I'm talking just a few bucks, it's not uncommon to overrun as well. If we don't get our break even numbers we are screwed. If we get a bad weather weekend we are going take a bath, so from the SCCA point of view there is NO wiggle room and it's always a nail biter until everything is in the books.

New regatta's with mono's:

Agreed good idea but look at the exchange. The A-cats (at least my observation) are tending towards doing more venues that do not include other mulithull classes. I'm not saying it's good or bad but the point is the A-cats didn't attend Tradewinds because their regatta prior to Tradewinds and won't attend Charlette Harbor because of the Ft. DeSoto regatta. Look at the current FL schedule, fall, winter and spring are packed with regattas, we cannot keep adding regattas and expect participation to stay flat or rise. There are only so many regattas the sailing community can attend in a single year. So, hard choices have to be made, if you add another event then you know the weaker regattas will suffer and possibly go away because they are no longer financially viable. To be a bit cold hearted about it, maybe that is what needs to happen.

In all honesty this isn’t the first time we’ve been down this road. It’s tough decision time, I have a pretty good idea what has to happen but I aint putting it on an open forum.

Tim, you are aware you don't have to sail all three days, right? We have a scoring provision that will let you sail only two days if that is what you can only do.

Yes, I realize that and for one big regatta per year, maybe 2 max, I would have no problem coming for a 3 day event. Every past Tradewinds I was there on Thursday night anyway, I'd just as soon race Friday as "practice".

I was talking more about the smaller, more local regattas, like Wildcat or KPRR, two days is about all I can get away from the wife without some kind of a "payback" being thrown at me, when I least expect it!

We are not all as lucky as you, Matt, Karl and Pete, to be married to sailors!

That was my dream, but I was lied to...don't get me started.

Karl, can I send my Beth to talk to your Beth? Maybe she'll listen to a woman's perspective!

Tim, you don't have to sail all three days. Is the problem with averaging the scores for the races you miss? What's the issue?

No issue. Like I said, I'd be there sailing (racing) on
Friday if it were Tradewinds or GC or the upcoming F16 Nationals.

I doubt if I will come on a Friday for KPRR or Wildcat though. If you can get the day off, fine, don't let me stop you, I just can't without having to -pay the piper- so to speak. I couldn't care less about the scoring for Friday. I come to those regattas for the party on Saturday night, not the scores. I will still come and sail Sat. and Sun.

I'm one of those wacko's who sail for fun.

I do not mind a couple of the bigger key event doing it, but I am not in favor to have them all that way.

3 day events are a lot harder on the organizers and volunteers. Do not get me wrong as the main reason I go to regattas is for the party, but 3 dayers are not condusive to work and kids. No you do not have to race all 3 days, but Ill take the BS and uncertanties of Portsmouth racing any time before agreeing that the average scoring deal has any validity to the end result.

Well, there's that too. If I cared about the scores I might have an issue with this scenario:

What if a guy shows up on Friday, but races with only a few other boats, scores 3 bullets, against 3 boats. Then he leaves after three 6ths's on Saturday when there are now 10 in his class, and doesn't race on Sunday? Do you "average" the 3 bullets for his Sunday scores? Is that fair to the guy who posted 3 bullets on Saturday against 10 boats?

Or is racing on Sunday mandatory to get the average of the Friday scores?

Like I said, I really don't care, just wondering if it will p/o the ones who do care.

Slightly different road this time around.

By "census" I meant trying to determine who would like to attend a number of regattas in a given year. You and I are examples. For the last year or two we've posted a list of regattas we would like to attend. I don't make good on all of mine, but I do try, and actually make good on the majority. If we encourage others to do the same we would have a core group of active sailors, a census.

Budget is a little tricker in that it involves money and time. Most people don't want to speak openly about money but time is a little easier. They will say how far they're willing to drive and on what dates.

I offer this insight. My wife didn't attend Tradewinds because we couldn't come to terms on accommodations and she had a number of other things going on. As a result, she stayed home and I slept in a hovel. Cheap, clean (no bedbugs)close to the regatta site. A few others stayed at the same place. Tback on the other hand is a genius at finding nice places to stay at very low prices. Next year the whole crew will probably stay wherever he stays and my wife will come with me. The trick is to count yourself in. Let him know beforehand so he has an accurate headcount. I'm sure there are other sub-groups who could do the same.

These two items exemplify the need for communication. Showing an interest in what others are interested in invites participation.

My experience is that successful groups expend a fair amount of energy contacting their membership, asking about their wants, and INVITING them to participate. This isn't happening in Florida. We are a loose coalition with
no structure for people to attach themselves and claim membership.

It's covered in the KPRR NOR.

And the link to that is...where?

I don't agree that this isn't happening in FL. Some FL fleets do spend a significant amount of time trying to get their boats to the beach, I would also describe those fleets as very structured and organized.

Here you go.

http://home.comcast.net/~smalldog266/KPRR_NOR.pdf

Thanks Dave.

Yep Dave does an awesome job sending out emails and always asks who is in and who is out. Same with Jill and Robby.

Maybe its an F18 thing??

PGP
On a side note with your history of openly bashing people on this forum me included, what is the point? I tend to distance my self from people who arent very nice either on the net ore at the Yacht Club.

My contribution to the "F18" thing.

I posted a fill in the box spreadsheet for major regattas in FL on 1design.net. This way instead of typing here which race you're going to , you can type a "Y", "N" or "?" under the race to indicate your attending.

This will give a quick, visual "dashboard" of who within your Fleet is attending each race.

Check it out. 2010 FL Racing Calendar

That is very cool.

Good deal! Thanks.

If you do Area D, I'll do Juana's.

Tback, that's the shizzznet there.

I'll updat that myself after the show.

Added color to the responses so now it "really" looks like a "dashboard"....these are added by a formating rule so when you put in a "N" it will show RED, a "Y" shows GREEN ...

have fun.


Note: Best I can tell Google Docs doesn't require a "Save" ... so don't worry about looking to save it ... it happens as you type

and it's multi user friendly. you can see other people updating their row if you time it right.

I take it you saw me experimenting on how to format the rows with the color keys?

No, I watched Karl update his row yesterday

That was you????? I thought my computer was stalking me.

BTW, Once you hit the Google doc, it best to save it as a bookmark so that you don't have to go dig back thru the 1design.net forum thread to locate it.

That was a great chart there Terry, thanks for doing that! I think I updated mine but I couldn't find any "Enter" type prompt when I was done, is there one?

Nope! You don't need to save anything. Looks like it's setup to do an autosave.

Great idea. We need to do that...

Can you add the NACRA and F18 Nationals in Racine August 9-13

I don't know if this tid bit of info is a good or bad thing but anyone can add/update anything.

I've added Racine (because they're National Events) .... However, the spreadsheet isn't locked. so you can add to it.

I do request that the races entered gear towards FL sailors AND major events that FL sailors might attend.

Otherwise, feel free to snag the spreadsheet, doctor it up and put your own races in that coordinate with your geography.