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F16 @ North Sea Regatta

Posted By: Bundy

F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/18/10 09:42 AM

We have applied to get the F16 class included in the Delta Llyod North Sea Regatta next month.
The regatta was initially only F18, F20, Hobie 16 and Dart. The organizers are willing to let F16 attend if we can get a minimum of 10 boats on the water.
The regatta is 22-24 May 2010 in Scheveningen, The Netherlands.
Regatta website is www.nsr.nl
It will be awesome promotion or F16 if we can get this happening.
We now need your support to attend. If you want F16 to be a major player in Europe now is the time to act and get on the water.

Gill, How many boats can you have here?
Wouter? You have the most contacts for F16 in the Netherlands. Can you contact everyone or pass them on to me.
Blade? Stealth? Spitfire?
Eric? Its not that far.
Please pass it on to all F16 sailors in Europe.

Winter is over!!! TIME for ACTION!! Please email me if you want more info or can attend.. even if its not for the whole regatta.. bundy(at)2bsailing(dot)eu

Hope to see you there.
Darren
Posted By: Stewart

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/18/10 10:47 AM

Sounds like a fantastic opportunity!!
Hope you and the series is well supported by the Euro F16 fleets..
Posted By: pgp

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/18/10 02:17 PM

Best of luck, keep us posted.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/18/10 02:52 PM

Sounds like a Fine idea. I'd love to come; but still broken and no money!!!

Spitfire is not an F16 I am afraid...

Might be worth trying to get hold of Hans via here or the F16 owners forum on the website: http://www.formula16.net/forum/

Hans
Posted By: Gilo

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/19/10 06:53 PM

Darren,

You can count me in. I would love to see some more F16 there!

Gill
Posted By: Mark P

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 07:21 AM

I doubt anybody from the UK will be attending. With Fuel currently costing 7 US dollars a gallon or 9 AUS dollars a gallon and the cost of taking a Van and Trailer across the Channel being in excess of 497 USD / 534 AUSD it soon becomes a very expensive hobby.
Therefore, one trip to Italy and the F16 Euro's is basically all I can afford both numerically and family. However, I'm sure there are enough mainland F16's to make up the numbers, it's just a shame of the relatively short notice.
Posted By: Phile

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 12:08 PM

Actually the $AUS is not far off parity with the $US at present, at about $0.93 last time I looked. $US 7 = approx. $AUS = 7.50. Still I get your point about the cost of travel. We were one of the few countries to go through the GFC pretty well unscathed, but keep that quite because we have enough migrants as it is.

I guess it is too far for Wouter to go.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 01:53 PM

Holy crap! It costs $500 to cross the channel? Is that by boat, or the chunnel?
Posted By: Stewart

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 02:03 PM

hope its by private jet!!
Posted By: Jalani

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 02:16 PM

It's by ferry I'm afraid - being an island we're a 'captive' audience!!!

I went on to the web this morning to check prices for that weekend and crossings (one way) ranged from £173 to £402. When booking a return trip the closer to the weekend either way the price goes up so out Thurs and back following Weds the total best price is £350. Go out Thurs last ferry and return last ferry Sunday, best price is £506... On top of that by using the late ferries you HAVE to book a cabin - cheapest is £37pp.
Then we've got fuel, acommodation etc.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 02:33 PM

I thought you could drive through the chunnel, wikipedia says no.
Posted By: Stewart

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 02:38 PM

so piggyback two boats a trailer? 4 on a truck?
would that work? Don't know just thinking.. s

Radical idea.. 34 kms across the channel. Dover to Calais.. long distance tune up.. have a truck ready to pick uyp the boats in Calais..
Posted By: waynemarlow

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jalani
It's by ferry I'm afraid - being an island we're a 'captive' audience!!!

I went on to the web this morning to check prices for that weekend and crossings (one way) ranged from £173 to £402. When booking a return trip the closer to the weekend either way the price goes up so out Thurs and back following Weds the total best price is £350. Go out Thurs last ferry and return last ferry Sunday, best price is £506... On top of that by using the late ferries you HAVE to book a cabin - cheapest is £37pp.
Then we've got fuel, acommodation etc.


Look outside the norm a little and go Dover Dunkirk return with Norfolk Line ferries and a car and trailer is £ 134.00 return going out Friday evening and returning Monday morning. They are a great Ferry Co and are so much cheaper than the P & O's and the likes across to Calais.
Posted By: pepin

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I thought you could drive through the chunnel, wikipedia says no.
You drive onto a train and the train goes through the tunnel.
Posted By: pepin

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mark P
I doubt anybody from the UK will be attending. [...] it soon becomes a very expensive hobby.
Therefore, one trip to Italy and the F16 Euro's is basically all I can afford both numerically and family. However, I'm sure there are enough mainland F16's to make up the numbers, it's just a shame of the relatively short notice.
Same here, my only outing this year will be Italy. And even sharing costs with Mark (taking his van and double stacking) between the ferry (£325), the tolls (€40), petrol (€300), the Swiss vignettes (€54) , the hotel stop on the way (€80), the accommodation in Gravedona (€250pp), the regatta fee (€200pp) and the necessary food (€) and alcohol (€€€€€€) funds it's going to be an expensive trip. But they say Como is really nice, I'm not sure a week end in the north sea in the middle of may can compare with a week in Italy in July smile
Posted By: Jalani

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 03:32 PM

Thanks Wayne - they are cheap!!

I've just entered the dates needed - out Thurs and back Sun (last ferry) and it's come out at £175.

Unfortunately, you've then got to drive from Dunkirk! That's 300km as opposed to 35km......

Still, for those that can get away and can afford it, it's a very good option that I certainly wasn't aware of.
Posted By: pepin

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 03:44 PM

Arrgh, can't you spell the name of this city right, it's Dunkerque darn it!

John, Dunkerque is closer to the Neederland than Calais.
Posted By: Stewart

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 04:04 PM

John you obviously don't live in Australia, USA or Canada!!
300 Km is what I do to see my son every weekend when I'm home.. Its a bugger but not a huge drive..

One of the issues in living in the most isolated capital city in the world.. Tyranny of distance!!




Posted By: Jalani

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 04:36 PM

Sorry Pepin...........

'O' level history and all that! smile - showing my age.
Posted By: Jalani

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 04:40 PM

Stewart, when it takes 40 mins (and sometimes more) to drive 20 miles around here it tends to colour one's judgement of distance!!

The point I was making was that paying the higher price to travel to Rotterdam had to be balanced against a drive of just 35km and say, 6 litres of fuel as opposed to getting the cheaper ferry but then driving 300kms for 3+ hours and using 60 litres of fuel!
Posted By: Wouter

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 05:14 PM


Quote

We have applied to get the F16 class included in the Delta Llyod North Sea Regatta next month.
...
It will be awesome promotion or F16 if we can get this happening.
...
Wouter? You have the most contacts for F16 in the Netherlands. Can you contact everyone or pass them on to me.



I will do what I can.

Personally, I feel the Spitfires will be most welcome to share a class with us.

Wouter
Posted By: Seeker

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 05:26 PM

No wonder half the world wants to live in the US....My wife or I live in two different cities during the week (317km round trip) and take turns going back and forth each weekend...and have been doing it for over 7 years. I feel for you guys....hopefully we will flush all the nut jobs out of washinton before we get to $7.00 a gallon.
Posted By: DanTnz

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Wouter

I will do what I can.

Personally, I feel the Spitfires will be most welcome to share a class with us.

Wouter


Don't want to stir up a can of worms here but is there a reason the spitfire isn't F16 compliant? Couldn't find a reason in the archives - seemed to start off being part of the class and then not.

I doubt I can make it, I'm in the last throws of completing my MSc dissertation and finish two law essays, so I've had hardly any time on the boat and don't know my butt from my elbow yet, especially sailing one up, which is new to me (but great!). Also owe my family a holiday which this could cut into.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by DanTnz
Originally Posted by Wouter

I will do what I can.

Personally, I feel the Spitfires will be most welcome to share a class with us.

Wouter


Don't want to stir up a can of worms here but is there a reason the spitfire isn't F16 compliant? Couldn't find a reason in the archives - seemed to start off being part of the class and then not.

I doubt I can make it, I'm in the last throws of completing my MSc dissertation and finish two law essays, so I've had hardly any time on the boat and don't know my butt from my elbow yet, especially sailing one up, which is new to me (but great!). Also owe my family a holiday which this could cut into.


The Spitfire does not measure as an F16.
Posted By: DanTnz

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 06:35 PM

Which bit doesn't measure (just out of interest)?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 06:47 PM

I think the main issue is sail area -

Spitfire http://www.catamaran.ie/cats/spitfire.htm
Main 15.5sq m
Jib 4.50 sq m
Spin 18 sq m

Formula 16 http://www.formula16.net/content/view/18/40/lang,en/
Main 15.0 sq m
Jib 3.70 sq m
Spin 17.5 sq m
Posted By: pepin

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by DanTnz
Which bit doesn't measure (just out of interest)?

All the sails are larger than permitted by F16 class rules for starters...
Posted By: DanTnz

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 06:55 PM

Cheers guys, for some reason I was thinking it had a smaller sail area - maybe I was thinking of the shadow. Strange how it has a higher texel rating given that extra sail area, I suppose it is 30 Kg heavier than F16 min though.
Posted By: Gilo

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 08:34 PM

I still think the idea of gathering with F16 at a big international regatta is a great idea.

The Delta Lloyd regatta is maybe not the best regatta according to what I hear.
If we would attend a regatta 'in group', to my opinion the regatta should be:
- attracting an international audience
- have a large fleet of C1 next to F18
- multiple days to make it worth the trip
- this summer of later > in time to book cheap ferries?

Any other ideas and proposals for regattas?

Sailing at as many places as possible, with as much boats as possible is best way to promote the class!

Gill
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/20/10 09:10 PM

Texel?

The North Sea Regatta is a three day event though and is one of the biggest regattas in Europe (not just cats there obviously).
Posted By: Aido

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 02:08 AM

Gill,
the north sea regatta is the perfect place to showcase the class. The will be lots of f18s and lots of sailors in general. The venue is great and the regatta is extremely well organized. The trophys are some of the coolest ones you'll see as well.

IMO the spitfire should be allowed to compete just make the 10 boat cut off, if not to get more boats on the water. Realistically they are no longer as quick as the modern f16s so there shouldn't be a problem. If a spitfire won the event they would definitely deserve it.

I wish I could go.
Posted By: Wouter

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 05:27 AM

Quote

seemed to start off being part of the class and then not.


The Spits were always none-compliant in the strickt sense but I (as the class chairman in the first years) always invited them and envisioned the two classes joining forces. The grandfather rule was specifically written to allow the Spits and other makes that were very similar to compete in F16 events. The reason for this rule was to consilidate the cat scene into a F16 class in this area of boat specs and use.

I felt it was not wise to ask these sailors to just sell their boats and buy an F16 especially when their current boats were so similar in performance anyway. I felt it was much more important to have more boats on the line and provide sailing enjoyment for all. I personally do not think that there was enough difference between the boats to make the racing unfair; and that is eventually the only real consideration in a formula class. In time the two classes could have migrated to a single uniform class.

A similar thing happened with the pre-F16 Stealths. I think all of these were eventually modified into fully compliant boats and retained much of their resale value. I felt it was wise to not try to beat (and kill) the other class but to coopt them and provide for a smooth transitional path that saved the personal investments of the owners.

I still believe this is the most wise course to take.

The new leadership in the F16 class has different idea's in this respect and that is when the Spits were "disinvited". I still feel that is a pitty as the process of courting over many years was starting to bear fruit so to say.

Other then that I feel we must be realistic with ourselves. Guaranteeing over 10 participating F16-boats at the NSR with a 30 days notice is a tall order. The Dutch F16 class has been a bit disfunctional lately. I personally hadn't planned to take my own boat out of winter storage till june/july due to work obligations.

Wouter
Posted By: Mark P

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 07:21 AM

Hi Phile
The difference in cost between the US gallon and imperial Gallon is due to the US gallon being roughly 1.5 pints less. So this was taken into consideration whilst doing my workings out as I thought it would be easier for people to understand. So that is why there is difference between the US Dollar cost and AUS Dollar cost of a "gallon"
Posted By: pgp

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 12:48 PM

You could always ask to sail with the F18s. wink Just be ready to duck and cover.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
You could always ask to sail with the F18s. wink Just be ready to duck and cover.


Where are you going with this Pete? Are we going to start snipping and each other’s class again?
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 01:49 PM

Pete: I think that they would be on the same starting line as the F18s anyway.
Posted By: pgp

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 02:34 PM

laugh You're assuming I ever stopped!
Posted By: Gilo

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 04:35 PM

I would love to be on the same starting line with the F18. More fun then just 10 boats on the line. I'm afraid of sailors on the course that don't handle their boat well, I don't mind close racing.

I would like to go to the regatta so only 8 to go!

Hans, Geert, Martijn?

Gill
Posted By: geert

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/21/10 07:37 PM

Wish I could be there!
It is indeed about time to get the F16's on the water again, in Holland.
But I probably can't make it, very small opportunity that I can escape from the office. Friday is not possible either.

But still interested in another F16 event in Holland.

Hope to see some of you at Texel, we'll definite be there all week.

Geert

Posted By: alutz

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by pepin
Originally Posted by Mark P
I doubt anybody from the UK will be attending. [...] it soon becomes a very expensive hobby.
Therefore, one trip to Italy and the F16 Euro's is basically all I can afford both numerically and family. However, I'm sure there are enough mainland F16's to make up the numbers, it's just a shame of the relatively short notice.
Same here, my only outing this year will be Italy. And even sharing costs with Mark (taking his van and double stacking) between the ferry (£325), the tolls (€40), petrol (€300), the Swiss vignettes (€54) , the hotel stop on the way (€80), the accommodation in Gravedona (€250pp), the regatta fee (€200pp) and the necessary food (€) and alcohol (€€€€€€) funds it's going to be an expensive trip. But they say Como is really nice, I'm not sure a week end in the north sea in the middle of may can compare with a week in Italy in July smile


BTW a swiss vignette cost's you 40 SFR ~> 30 Euro
Posted By: alutz

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 07:09 AM

>BTW a swiss vignette cost's you 40 SFR ~> 30 Euro

Forgot that you have to pay for the trailer too, so you where about right with the 57 Euro.

BTW we are planning to go to Texel as well, so we might see some of you folks there!
Posted By: Hans_Ned_111

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 07:12 AM

If i have my boat ready then i will go but i cannot say if it will be on time. There is some more stuff to finish before my boat, the disadvantage of building i think.

Hans
Posted By: Mark P

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 07:15 AM

Is it true that we have to purchase two Vignettes, one for the vehicle and one for the trailer?
Posted By: pgp

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 10:48 AM

I'll bite. What's a vignette?
Posted By: Aido

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 10:56 AM

The Swiss charge you to drive thru their country. Its almost worth the money tho.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by pgp
I'll bite. What's a vignette?

An overpriced sticker!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignette_%28road_tax%29

Posted By: Hans_Ned_111

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mark P
Is it true that we have to purchase two Vignettes, one for the vehicle and one for the trailer?


Yep Mark,
You do need for the car and trailer a vignette. Do not try to save money on it because when you get caught it is a ticket of around 250 to 300 euro's.


Hans
Posted By: GBR6

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 12:17 PM

But only needed if you travel on the motorways?
Posted By: pepin

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by GBR6
But only needed if you travel on the motorways?
Yeah, and as such mandatory as regular roads in Switzerland are awfully slow: they are mostly twisty mountain roads with slow swiss drivers on them numbingly following ridiculously low speed limits. Trust me, you don't want to cross Switzerland using regular roads, especially with a long trailer.
Posted By: Mark P

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/22/10 03:41 PM

Their Motorways are probably made from the Jewish Gold they have yet to return following WWII wink
Posted By: alutz

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/23/10 07:40 AM

Allways used to drive without sticker on the trailer.
But got caught two years ago... At this time the fine was 100 SFR (so not so high)
And now they raised the fine too 300 SFR.
Since then I had ther sticker on my trailer, except last year when I forgot again and didn't got caught. grin I guess some people never learn.

Personally I think for the car it's ok, but a sticker for the trailer is too much (and so unfair wink ).
But still much better than the toll road system they use in france and italy. The regular traffic jams in front of the toll place, is just too anoying!

You guys should have an account for the teams who travell the most.
And at the end of the year, the ones with the most distance covered, should get a little revenue.
Posted By: Bundy

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/26/10 05:02 PM

The Spitfires are more than welcome...At this stage we will accept anything that resembles a 16ft boat.. Gee's more of a challenge than I thought..
Posted By: macca

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/26/10 08:46 PM

I have a Nacra F20 Carbon, it "resembles" a 16ft boat... can I play?

Posted By: Bundy

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/27/10 06:26 AM

Seems like a even match for the Viper.. Don't make me wait for you at the top mark.
Posted By: pepin

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/27/10 09:07 AM

What we like to see: trash talk. Now it's full on smile
Posted By: Mark P

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/27/10 10:55 AM

I was at the "Try a Sail Day" at Datchet last Sunday, I only saw Dave & Nigel where were all the other F16 Sailors laugh
Posted By: pepin

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/27/10 01:26 PM

I was there all of Saturday. From 9 to 5. Manning a rib.
Posted By: waynemarlow

Re: F16 @ North Sea Regatta - 04/27/10 07:47 PM

mmmm either I was missing something here or I missed you, sorry busy 12.30 until 5.30 driving the ribs amongst the many things that need to be done on these sort of days.

Evidently it was quite successful with a number of new members signed up and more importantly for us, many lined up and sampling cat sailing along with dingy sailing. Quite fun for all concerned to be transferring people whilst sailing along, from the ribs to the cats, not so easy on the monos.
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