optimized uni

I have three basic problems:

1) hoisting the spinnaker quickly and efficiently
2) steering while hoisting (and dousing)
3) dousing the spin

I've seen a lot of Uni sailors do those things well, but none of them are as quick and efficient as a sloop. Surely there is better way to steer than with a "butt cleat".

Getting back aboard is also more of a problem for Unis than sloops. I think that prompts a lot of Uni sailor to be more conservative, especially on the down wind.

regarding your second question:
Has your boat lee- or weatherhelm when hoisting or dousing?
I drop the traveller and open rotation and downhaul. My boat has leehelm with this setup. I can leave the tiller while hoisting, the boat will not turn to the wind, has no risk to capsize.
Upwind, the boat has slight weatherhelm.

Why is getting back on board a problem for uni sailors? Two people need twice the time to get back, I would say. Or are you saying that it goes faster when one helps the other?

Cheers,

Klaus

My boat has very slight weather helm, almost neutral. I too drop the traveler down (when I remember). And, if my timing is right the boat tracks okay. Still, I haven't seen any of the Uni guys perform this operation nearly as quickly as a good sloop crew. I would say, on average, a Uni looses 5-10 boat lengths on this operation alone.

Getting back on board is a big problem for short fat people. But, even for others the boat can some times pick up headway immediately after righting and in such cases it is easy to get overpowered and end up being dragged along behind the boat. With the sloops, the best crews can board the boat as it rights, hold the tiller up into the wind and help the other member aboard.

Pete, those are the tradeoffs when you race Uni. Naturally a crewed boat can get the spinny up faster as the crew is already pulling the tack and hoisting while the skipper is driving to the offset mark. Same with the douse, the skipper can hold a high line and trim in the main, going fast, while the crew snuffs it, then resets the rotator, downhaul, boards down if they were up, etc.

The "payback" when sailing Uni? It's more of a challenge, when you get it right you can feel good about yourself.

And when you swim...well...you can't blame the crew!

I would prefer to have a 5' tall, 100lb. super crew who could do all the hard work, all the time, while I just drive. But since I don't know anyone like that...I'll continue to sail Uni and be happy when I get it right.

BTW, as I'm watching the evening news right now, and they just said Zach and Matt Lynch and their Viper are going to be featured on Fox Ch. 13 out of Tampa "Coming up Next"! Turn on your TV to Ch. 13 Fox out of Tampa if you get that.

"Tradeoffs". I'm not convinced anyone has come up with THE BEST system for Uni sailing. Call me Don Quixote...

I don't know about you but I've only got two hands, so there's only so much I can do at once, at A Mark.

Right you are! I think the spin hoist/retrieval systems being used are designed for sloops. I use the single line system with spin lock (which I love), but it just seems awkward, even after all this time.

Just saw Matt and Zach on TV,and they had a few words from Robie too! Nicely done for a change.

Greg and/or Brett, you should get a copy of that and use it for promotion.

My capsize recovery technique solo:

- Place the boat with the wind coming in between the mast and the hulls (see "Cat sailing for the 90's")
- Pull on the righting line (tied to the mast base, gone over a hull)
- As soon as the mast pops out of the water, duck, grab the main beam and let go of the righting line
- Continue puling on the main beam
- As the hull come down roll over the main beam and the mast
- As the hull touches the water you are on the trampoline and the boat is facing the wind.
- Grab the tiller and the main sheet, get some speed up, jump on the trapeze, you're on your way again.

Aka I'm never in the water with my boat upright pulling me around. A variant of this technique was demonstrated to me by MarkP along time ago, and I've been practicing since then... I believe Mark ducks under the mast and climbs on by the lower side. I've tried that and got caught on the spi bag everytime.

AHA! I've tried that but never quite made it. I'd almost given up but will have to keep trying.

I don't know how it'd be done differently.

I started standing while hoisting, you can really rip on the halyard then.. The boat wants to round up just a little bit, once the spin is out of the bag it seems to balance out nicely until I can get hold of the tiller again.

I'm to drunk to talk right now but if I'm ever sober I'll chat about righting a capsized 16.....hic...uop

There are some options if one is open to some different ideas-
1) Marstrom "snail"- potentially used with a "spring" which is "wound" on drop or hoist with purchase system to reduce amount of "pull" necessary to hoist/drop
2) Furled spi (if furled horizontally could then drop/fold furled spi ala "A" sails on some monoslugs) - could "furl" vertically- potentially around a "cage" or lightweight CF "drum"- ideally this would be stored in the leeward hull- especially if the spi was flown off a bridle between the bows ;-)
3) Large "wheel" under tramp to "roll" spi up on quickly w/ minimal "pull" on line attached to wheel- could also be spring assisted- Spring could be wound on upwind leg perhaps?
4) Use a collapsible small "parachute/sea anchor" on halyard/retrieval line to provide motive force/assistance to launch/retrieve or wind spring
5) basket style "snuffer" ala monoslugs that slides up spi to "launch" and down over spi to "douse"- could then drop/fold snuffed spi at relative leisure.

No matter what this process will always be "slower" IMO than comparably equipped sloop due to fewer hands, arms,eyes, brains, attention span, etc.

Kirt

A conservative sailed uni which does not capsize is always faster than an agressive sailed sloop which capsizes.

I sailed regular single handed dinghies, some with asymmetrics. It is a good training for your reactions. After sailing those boats (and capsizing to lee and windward, gybing during hoisting and all the other nastiness and then going back on a catamaran, I simply do not capsize or pitchpole. The capsizing or nose diving of a catamaran feels slow compared to a dinghy and gives you ample of time to react. It is just a matter of perspective, if start looking from a crew cat, sailing uni is difficult.

Coming back on board for shorter people may be difficult. You can't get taller, but you can train your arms to pull you up quicker. But it is maybe easier said than done.

And the end it is all about training... and very satisfing

The ideal solution exist already. Look for a hooter, Rick offers them. The point is that the sail doesn't fit in the mid girth rule. Basically it is a shame with those rules... they just prevent development

Agreed. And I like Pepin's solution to righting: 1) get the boat oriented properly so it doesn't try to sail away and drown you. 2) I gotta learn to get on the boat as it comes over.

Well, the chupacabra (or however was is called) was a big dud at the last olympics so I'm sure if much performance related development is to be found here. Meaning, yes it will be easier to deploy and douce but may still be overall slower then a spi with a slow set and douce. A modern flat asym. spinnaker is a pretty powerful downwind wapon and while sailing 1-up you already have more then enough power without a hooter.

With respect to the reason for having this midgirth rule, that is not at all to prevent development but rather to prevent the F16's from being killed in handicap and other event rules. A hooter is seen by measurement handicap systems (Texel, Schrs) as an oversized jib and rated accordingly.

It is simply no fun racing F18's in open class events at a rating of 84 to 101. There is simply no way a F16 can outperform a F18 by 20%, not even with the best of hooters. This would have been a promotional problem for the F16 class, among other things and hence the midgirth rule was included.

Personally, I would waver any crew using a hooter in F16 events (not open class racing). I'm convinced these are not faster over a wide range of conditions not even for single handers.

As far as I know an invitation to bring a hooter to an F16 race has been outstanding ever since the subject was brought up in 2002. No-one took up this offer. You can be first Smiths_cat !

Wouter

Wouter; the Mid-girth rule is used to define a Spi; check the ISAF definitions.

Currently SCHRS rates a hooter as a jib; the group started to look at rating these sails under my chairmanship; and this work continues.

My sails (Goodalls) are just fine, as is the rest of the hardware.

However, I've been advised to change the routing of the spin halyard to that used by the Vipers. I'll have to add a couple of turning blocks to do that.

What spinnaker routing are you other Uni guys using?

[My spin halyard currently runs under the tramp to the rear beam, througt a block, then across the top of the tramp, at an angle, to the spin lock mounted on the forward beam.

I've been advised to alter this so that the halyard does not run to the rear beam.]

Pete,
Go to ahpc's site and look under the viper's page and look at the manuals. One of them will have diagrams of how the halyard is sit up. It shows both ways, the single line and the seperate line system. In my opinion the single line system would be better for singlehanded and or inexperienced crews. I use the single line sysytem that's shown and will stay with that, unless I get a pretty steady crew. To me, there's way too much stuff going on for single handed people to have the seperate line system. I do have to admit though, the seperate system that is in the diagram is pretty slick compared to others I've seen.

Scooby,



Ehh yeah, but how do you figure that I'm saying something else ?

I guess you misread my posting somewhere, for that is exactly what I'm getting at. The hooter by virtue of failing the midgirth measurement is NOT regarded as a spinnaker by the handicap systems and hence rated as a very large jib. Thus leading to an enormous handicap hit.

Wouter

I second that advice. I sailed with a rearbeam setup for about a month and then changed it.

Best in my opinion is to tie a bungee to the rearbeam and tie a large stainless steel ring to the other end. This ring must reach somewhere halfway the tramp when the bungee is tensioned somewhat. Run the spi halyard from the grommet to the ring and then back to the clear on the mainbeam or the guiding block there (mast based cleat system). Now you can always face forward when hoisting and doucing the spi and the bungee will take up the slack.

Better still is to fit a small block to the rearbeam (or again a stainless steel ring) and ring the bungee through that and tie it off somewhere far away. This allows the ring at the end of the bungee to move with the halyard over large distances wihout changing much in pulling force.

Work well for me. I've never sat on the halyard since I made this mod.


Additionally, I too favour the single line setup for 1-up sailing over the 2 line setup.

Wouter

You'd think that, but you'd be wrong. After doing both the seperate lines are easier. Pull the tack out 10-15 secs before rounding the top mark, or on the way to the offset. Snuffing if its set up so the halyard pops the tack, then there's no loss in the retrieval. Hoisting takes way less effort as well since the sail is just about free of the bag once the tack is pulled.


Pete- Buy an SNU. I haven't used the ring that came with the Viper, but when I changed from the factory Hobie unit on the FXone, to the SNU it was noticably easier. I'm about positive that Jill is a dealer.


The new mesh bottom SNU's are sweet, but the mesh does create some drag over the slick bottom versions. I haven't tried doing the Holmelcoat (sp) stuff on it yet though.

SNU? How 'bout that guys? I've heard good and bad things.

Karl, how much time do you have sailing Uni? I'm not busting your chops, it's just that these things have a way of going back and forth. Frankly, I've wondered about moving to the two line system, just for the reasons you cite.

Seems to me that the sloops set their spins faster because they usually start before they get to the off set.

I've only been out about six times solo. Enough that I'm getting a pretty good feel for it.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you using the two line setup directly from the AHPC site?

Not quite, sorta......

I've got a spinlock mounted on the front beam, underneath the tramp for the tack line. At the top of the spinlock I drilled a small hole to accept a piece of small diameter line, the other end of that line goes up through a grommet that is just behind where the halyard goes through a eyestrap. The line that is connected to the spinlock has a ring on the other end of it which the halyard also runs through. When I pull the halyard from the tramp, it unlockes it from the cleat on the mast, and also opens the spinlock releasing the tack line.

Next time you see Robbie's Viper, I copied his setup.

Thanks. After rounding A mark and approaching the offset, when do you pull the tack? Depends on the amount of wind I'd think.

As soon as I've got everything else ready to go, downhaul off, (I gotta work on recleating it though), and rotation off. If its light, and I'm a bit high I'll start pulling the halyard on the way to the offset.

Time on the water will never replace time on the internet. Sail more often and you will be surprised how easy it is.

Ive used both systems and I totally prefer the single line setup. Even on the F18.

I had the single line setup but the problem that drove me to the two line, even when Uni, was that after several sets and douses, either the halyard or the tack line would eventually get 'kinky' and foul a set or douse. That and I find it much easier (less drag) to quickly pull up the halyard after the tack has been pulled out first, as was said earlier, it pulls the spin half out of the bag for you.

On the douse, I've been in situations where I was glad the tack line was still out (crash gybe in the middle of snuffing) as it kept the spin from going under the bow.

Like Robi said though, time on the water is the best cure.

Consider using No kink line

Wonder if Rick carries Paraloc??
If not he should-

Kirt

Or, you can pull part of the core out of the halyard and that will prevent kinks.

I ended up buying a halyard from Mike Krantz which is half soft stuff and half dyneema. The skinny dyneema starts just above my mast mounted halyard clete. I've had no problems since, but I'm still running the two line set up.

Now, here's a question, how do you tail off your downhaul lines so that you can reach them and adjust it while staying out on the wire? Right now I've got mine tied to the mast rotator, so I can grab both at once, but I have to come in to reach it. Is there a way to keep it handy while out on the wire?

When I sailed uni on the F16 I had all my control lines going around the trap lines. This way they were only a arms length away.

Yeah, I tried that for awhile but when fully extended out on the wire I'd still have to crouch down to grab them. Then I tried adding a piece of small diameter bungie cord from the control lines up to the trap handle area, so I could raise up the downhaul line when I needed it, ie. when I see a big puff coming.

That worked, but when I'd come in off the wire to tack, I got all tangled up in it! Too much stuff on my tramp to get tangled up in already!

You guys going to Daytona next weekend?

For the downhaul to your trapeze, you need to put a really small line through the line where your dogbone or whatever you use to hook into. Then have a ring on the end of that, run the downhaul through that. It should be at your stomach then...

Clear as mud?

I don't have this done, YET, but will do this. I know a couple that run it that way and it's perfect.

I go to Dubai on Friday, get home on Tuesday, so I'll miss it.

Thanks Mike, I'll try that.

Something I just thought of, but I'm throwing this out, make sure you have enough line on you downhaul to do this.

Mike

Tell us how it works. I was thinking of such an solution, but never tried it. I try to keep things simple, so my downhaul and rotator go to the shrouds (if sailing double handed the downhaul goes to the forward trapez shock cord). Have to crouch to grab it.

Cheers,

Klaus

I found that with the DH routed via the trap line; I pull on downhaul and it gets in the way when trapezing down wind.

I just route it via the shroud plate and then either dip in to grab it or hold it in my aft hand while I play the mainsheet and then switch to play change the DH.

Agreed for single hand sailing, but when sailing double handed it is difficult for the crew to cross the trampoline during tacks or gybes without accidently pulling the downhaul or rotator. As a consequence I placed the downhaul more forward (the forward trap line goes through the front beam).

Cheers,

Klaus

Word of the day: coaching.

Spent the weekend in Daytona and several people commented that I'm sailing better. That's after two days of coaching. Obviously that won't correct 30 years of bad habits! So remember, "practice makes permanent." Make sure when you do practice, you're doing it right. Imo, the best way is to hire a coach or attend a seminar.

http://chessiephoto.com/p762588843/e1cf415ca#h1cf415ca

select slide show for more detail.

I grade "the infamous duck" +1

For double handed set up we like the downhaul going to the crews trap. You have to get used to it in the beginning, but it is very easy to adjust while trapping out.

http://alturl.com/yyt8t > on the beach tramp setup
http://alturl.com/9tqjk > on the water, you can see the downhaul line above my front leg

More tips&tracks on Matt's facebook page (Falcon Marine LLC).

I've got the SNU on both the Stealth and the 18HT, and I've very pleased with them. And Dennis is great to deal with. And I've never heard anything negative, what have you heard?

Dave

Nothing really. I only know a couple of people who use them. No complaints, but no great praise either.

I know on my FXone it was a massive upgrade over the Hobie unit, I never used the original ring that came with the Viper. The mesh bottom units are sweet because they drain, but the mesh does makes snuffing harder.