day dreaming

Napes to Key West- 187 miles (top)

Sanibel Causeway to Boca Grande Pass- 60+ miles

The sanibel one looks easier, and it's about the same distance as day 1 Steeplechase.

+1 There are two passes to duck into if you wanted to shorten the course.

Better have flares, a good gps and a top notch radio. Reason is if you break down in Florida bay, you are far from any Coast Guard rescue asset. Searches launched out of Miami or Clearwater will take at least 45 minutes to reach you, that is of course they don't have to do a search. Better be ready to abandon ship if a helicopter shows up to assist you.

I have not intention of sailing that particular route. Someone just asked me how far it was.

When I have sailed down to the Keys, I've stayed very close inshore, just bumping along the coastline.

Thanks for the distance and the photo-maps Pete, from 35,000 feet it looks a lot shorter! I was thinking it might only be about 100 miles, straight line, but it's nearly double that and even at a sustained 18 knots (as if that's possible) it would take 10 hours! And Robi makes a good point, it could get very lonely out there if anything broke.

Coffee and morning video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQIiQhTFf30&feature=player_embedded

So...where is Hout Bay? NZ or Aus?

No clue.

think its a "bok" land bay ( south africa for non Rugby fans) )

Key West to Dry Tortugas

http://www.nps.gov/drto/planyourvisit/directions.htm

http://www.nps.gov/drto/planyourvisit/brochures.htm

I'm in! But how do you get a beach cat and provisions out there?

A support cruising boat fleet; and the cruising cats or monohulls to follow and chase racing fleet

It takes Yankee Freedom about 2 hours each way at 20+ kts. It's definately an over the horizon sail, so you'd better have some navigation backup (extra GPS)

Camping provisions can be strapped to the boat. I don't know how feasible these trips are on the F16. For starters, you need a very competent crew/navigator, someone you can talk to for the 4+ hrs so you don't get bored, and more importantly someone you trust with your life. Is the F16 a good platform with 300 lbs of crew weight, 25 lbs of navigation and safety gear, and 100 lbs of camping gear, all while offshore? I haven't spent enough time on the boats in heavy air and more importantly a heavy sea state to make that call.

I will say the F18, N20, F20c, and Tornado are probably better platform for this. If the trip/race is downwind both ways, the F16 would probably be alright as well. Having spent 5 hours POUNDING through 5+ foot Atlantic chop upwind in 20kts+ on the N20 WITHOUT chicken lines (we were <1 mile offshore at all times and this was still stupid), I wouldn't want less waterline. A reef-able mainsail would be nice. Anyone look at Livingston's Tornado modified for the Everglade's Challenge? I'd really like to take a look at that boat, it would probably be the setup I'd take on over-the-horizon trips.

Take a look at the Tybee list of safety requirements. That's my safe minimum. I'd take nothing less than 3 GPS's on the trip, 2 VHF's, EPIRB's for each crew member and enough water for 3 days. Nothing less than Aquata Worrell XT's or equivalent for trap harness's. I'm sure those with more distance racing experience than I will chime in with their tips...

Finally, some of these places look like a blast and may be the next step forward for distance racing. I'd love to see a distance race run alternate years down the Gulf Coast of Florida, Starting in Tampa and culminating in a beastly 82nm mile sprint from Marco's Island to Key West across Florida Bay.

The F16 is not suitable for extended sailing, imo.

Southwest Florida has great daysailing water for catamarans. It would be a really strange series of events that would put you more than a few minutes from shelter. The trips I've suggested could be done, reasonably, on any small boat.

But, as Timbo says, "You can do anything, once."

The tips look great, but to say the F16 can not do a LD race...

I have sailed my F16 in the Steeplechase Regatta twice, about 100mi, 50mi each day. (around Key Largo)

I sailed my F16 in the Hogs Breath Regatta once 100 miles (Islamorada to Key West)

I sailed my F16 in the Miami to Key Largo and back this year 80 miles. and beat the F18s (finished 3rd in h-class)

How many F16's did the 'Around the Island' race last year 100mi?

I repeat (second time) Provisions / camping gear would be put on the Cruising Fleet.
and their are alot of monouhulls out of Miami that could do this. Perhaps after the Miami to Key West Race.

I'm tentatively planning on doing the GT300 next year on a Viper with a heavier mast to handle the three sail reaching, with 375lb crew.

Is the viper mast not strong enough as is? Are the carbon offerings from Falcon Marine needed to 3 sail reach for extended periods of time?

Getting a cruising fleet of monohulls to follow the catamaran's is smart but imo improbable. Frankly I prefer to be self-dependent and I think many of the distance racing crowd agrees with me. With the proper equipment (dry bags) I don't see why 1 nights worth of camping gear can't be brought on the boats. I would say the Everglade's Challenge crowd would be more interested in the sail to the Dry Tortugas than most.

Sail7seas, what were the conditions like in those races regarding wave state? My experience has been the waves in the key's are relatively mild compared to the Atlantic. Even the waves up most of the Florida coast are mild compared to Wilmington, NC in the same wind conditions. Clearly you have proven the boat is capable of distance racing in the key's, did you have crew on board and what particular F16 are you racing?

The aluminum stick, with close to 400lbs on the wire, cunningham on, traveled out? No ****ing way. I doubt a carbon F16 mast would be much better either.


FYI, Matt is using the same Goodall wing mast as AHPC so it's not just a Viper thing. It can take a lot of abuse, I've seen some scary bends with no damage, but I don't think it'd hold up to that kind of outright abuse and misuse.

I didn't say "cannot" I said "not suitable".

I was thinking about you when I made that post and I think we actually agree. If you load the boat down with the gear for two for several days, you'd be in the cruising fleet.

Robi did Miami to Key Largo at least once, and there is Hagar's which always has a number of F16s.

Still, I wouldn't load the boat with gear to last two guys, unsupported, for several days.

But, since we're just day dreaming, how would you get a small fleet of F16s out to Dry Tortuga?

* stay together as a fleet, well within visual distance
* have each boat carry just their own provisions or try to split the load somehow?
* sail to the Marquesas, overnight and try for a daytime approach

I'm pretty sure H16s have made the trip in the past.

What I mean by cruising/support fleet are boats around 35 to 50+ feet.

GPS has an 'off course' feature, say set that to 1 mile each side of the rumb line.
I have used a Signal mirror when I lost both rudders on my H16 halfway to Culebra. This race from the east side of PR (Fajardo) to Culebra about 20 miles away.
The support boats brought food, clothing, family, and spectators. I took 5 to 8 hours in long swell around 4' to 10' high.

I have averaged around 8kn on the F16 in these races, so 70miles is around 10 hours.

Marquesaa Keys are 30mi away is an option, puts all the more importance of the support fleet, as no camping allowed. (sleep on support boats)

and Boca Grande Key, Florida (sleep on support fleet)
http://www.bootkeyharbor.com/FWSKeysRefuges.htm

FL keys Sea state is mild compared to NC, if you stay near shore (1 mi). Crew weight is 350lb

The Miami to Key Largo race fleet is huge 100-200 boats,
Not easy but I think one could drum up a support fleet.

There would have to be a lot of support for me to try it.

Regardless of the boat, I wouldn't try something like the Cuban run, or sailing to the Bahamas without a big chase boat. Preferably power, just because a big blue water cruiser would have trouble staying in sight.

I wouldn't do either of those, both are reputed to be subject to extremely rough sea state.

I'm only serious about bumping along the coast, where I can duck into sheltered water if the weather turns nasty.

I think a fleet of beach cats could do a coast wise cruise here in SWFL.

Just wanted to add, because I'm a big ol' pussy. If you think you've got the skills, cajones, luck, and equipment to pull it off, have at it.

I think running down the coast wouldn't be too bad, se you said Pete you can always scramble for land.

I don't think it makes much sense to take a small boat waaaaay of shore without a lot of support.

Of course it depends a lot on the boat.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=214607#Post214607

I've been 10 miles offshore in the N20, it was light air and the sea state was mild. I would be concerned about doing a Cuba run without adequate preparation and preferably a few chase boats. Would I still do it without chase boats? Probably because I'm crazy and I've also had some major gear failure offshore before that we've managed to work around in areas where there is no beach support.

As far as an F16 mast not being capable of sustained reaching loads, this is the first I've heard and its concerning. Karl, is your plan to switch to an F18 section cut down to the appropriate height? Why would the carbon not be better? Carbon is usually stiffer and capable of sustaining higher loads for the same weight as aluminum. Would Falcon would build a tougher Carbon mast for you if you asked?

I'm planning on using an AHPC F18 mast cut down. Really hoping to score one with a damaged end due to shipping.

I could have someone build a carbon mast, but I feel a lot better about throwing away a $1500 mast extrusion, rather than a built up $4k carbon mast. Reason being I'm only going to use it for the one race. Unless I fall in love with distance racing it will be either sold at deep discount, or recycled. Really all I need is the extrusion, I'll rob everything I can off of the Viper mast. I'm also hoping that I can get the mast tuned in with out having to re-cut a main sail.

So you increase the strength of the mast...is everything else up to the challenge?...the standing rigging? the chain plates?, the bridle? Like any chain...it's only as strong as it's weakest link.

I'm not going to up the size of anything else. I may change out the diamond wires if I have to go to some ridiculous number on the Loos gauge. All the hardware and wires are way oversize to begin with. I do hear what your saying though. I guess the best way to put it, is I know the mast will fail if we're pushing it hard. The rest would be shocking if there was a failure as its all the same stuff as off the F18, with exception of the wire rigging. F18 has a ridiculous wire size written in the rules, but what is there is more than adequate for the loads. So if anything breaks, it will more than likely be a failure, vs a overstressing scenario.

Didn't want to make any assumptions...from what I understand AHPC used the F18 beams for the Viper so it wouldn't surprise me if they used other F18 parts which would be considered "oversize as well. That extra weight has to come from somewhere....if so...that's good for your purposes.