Catsailor.com

Curiosity is gonna kill my cat

Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 06/30/11 10:03 PM

So a friend an I were talking about putting his C2 rig on my Viper for a regatta.

I'm curious. Even more so now that I've thought about it a bit. I think if the wind comes up we'll be in trouble, up to the point of being in trouble it'd be a weapon though. laugh
Posted By: pgp

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 06/30/11 10:31 PM

Maker yourself useful. Send me the flaming guy, I want to use it as an avatar. Can't find it anywhere.
Posted By: _flatlander_

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
So a friend an I were talking about putting his C2 rig on my Viper for a regatta.

I'm curious. Even more so now that I've thought about it a bit. I think if the wind comes up we'll be in trouble, up to the point of being in trouble it'd be a weapon though. laugh
me thinks that would be an angry boat
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
So a friend an I were talking about putting his C2 rig on my Viper for a regatta.

I'm curious. Even more so now that I've thought about it a bit. I think if the wind comes up we'll be in trouble, up to the point of being in trouble it'd be a weapon though. laugh


Dude, that's just wrong! Better talk to momma before you void your warranty :-)
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 03:59 AM

LOL. Jill knows better than to warranty anything while in my stewardship!

The whole idea sprouted from what could be the men's multi-hull for 2020.


Ding- as of this post, you realize we have the same post count? Like, oh. my. god....... Yeah, its late, and yeah, I've got half-o-bottle of rum in me.
Posted By: waynemarlow

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 10:03 AM

A lot of work for only a marginal increase in speed for a huge handicap hit, don't ask me how I know.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 12:05 PM

I'd heard the Hobie SX, the larger 18 rig, didn't work well because the extra power just depressed the hull. There are lots of things you can change, but not displacement.

I dunno though, purely hearsay.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
There are lots of things you can change, but not displacement.


True enough. I think it'd be a tough sail in anything much over 10kts.

I don't think it'll be that much work. The shrouds should work and be pretty close to the correct length, the geometry from the C2 and the Viper is pretty close, as far as the distance from the front beam to the where the shrouds are, and the beam isn't that much less. Neither forestay won't work, and neither will the spin pole bridles. The forestay I think I'll use the Viper's, and just throw a shackle on the chain plate and the end of the bridle and just use a 4-5 wraps of dyneema to make up the difference. The spin pole bridles are just made from dyneema and are easy enough to make as well. I should just use an extra end cap so we don't have to cut the old one off as well.

Where the kite sheets to could be an issue. Might be able to cheat that with some sort of barber hauler type set up though,

Jib could be an issue as well. The F16 jib is tiny, the big boy F18 jib is gargantuan by comparison so I don't know if it'd clear the mast. In fact I'm basically sure it wouldn't. So we'd either use the F16 jib, or go F16-HT style. Oops, just looked at the AHPC website, there's only five more square feet in the F18 jib. might not be that far off

F18
main - 183sq/ft
jib - 45sq/ft

F16
main - 162sq/ft
jib - 40sq/ft


Like I said, its just for fun.




and Pete, no way am I giving up the stick man monk
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 02:59 PM

Just do it. And tell us all about it. We count on you for entertainment Karl!

Dave
Posted By: pgp

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 03:06 PM

"...no way am I giving up the stick man monk"
cry
Posted By: jody

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 03:44 PM

Is the boom (foot of the main) a lot longer then the f16, this could make sheeting the main a problem if the clue of the main is behind the rear beam a ways.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 03:44 PM

Dude, get laid already! The lack of attention is making you think funny. Making bad decisions when it comes to women is normal... he!! it's expected, making bad decisions when it comes to a boat is inexcusable. Yes, turning a Viper into a Frankenboat is a BAD decision.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by jody
Is the boom (foot of the main) a lot longer then the f16, this could make sheeting the main a problem if the clue of the main is behind the rear beam a ways.


The Tramp is ~3 inches longer on the C2 than the Viper. I think. There will be some more compression on the boom and the fittings but nothing too serious I'd think.

Dave Farmer- are we still going to see you this summer?

DING- all I'm going to say is you have no idea what's been going down lately. laugh I'm not doing anything permanent to the boat. Now, if I had a set of sails cut, and a carbon mast built to get the weight back down to Viper specs, I'd agree with you. $20 in cordage for an experiment is an acceptable expense in the name of fun.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 04:51 PM

"...you have no idea what's been going down lately."

You can get a bottle of nice wine and some Brie for $20.
Posted By: jody

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 05:31 PM

Karl if you do this transformation please make sure to photo and video it all. Would answer the question of what happens when a F16 and F18 are together alone in the wilderness of Mn.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 06:42 PM

Don't think I haven't been keeping my eye on you Mr. Brogger. I've seen this pattern before... many, many times before and it never ends well. I know... it's just a couple of bucks for a some cordage but before you know it you are dropping some serious coin on a full on Frankenboat that can't find a home. You have that tinker gene and basically your an addict waiting to happen, channel your powers for good my son. If you want the sensation of a stupidly over canvased rig go get a ride on a SC20 tall rig in 15 knots, that will fix you right up.

Don't listen to these enablers, no good will come of this unholy union.
Posted By: ksurfer2

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 08:28 PM

I think Karl is on the right track, but if your gonna do it, do it right!!!!! Brett's gotta have an extra M20 mast lying around. That mast has got to be lighter than an F18 mast and you can carry that M20 main, now no jib is necessary, so that geometry problem has just been solved.

Oh


Hi Karl!
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 08:32 PM

I'll see that and raise you one... WING IT!

While we're at let's foil that b!tch too!
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 08:45 PM

Holy crap Ding, that made me laugh.

On the wing subject, Dave Farmer has a cabinet making buddy that had built quite a few land yachts with wings outta wood. It has thoroughly crossed my mind.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/01/11 11:55 PM

There you go... that will keep you busy for a while.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/02/11 02:32 PM

If you have the time, money and accept the risk of breaking your boat/rig, go for it!

I can not help but think "truck engine in a beetle" and "pitchpole machine", but go for it and make sure to post some photos! You will no doubt get some pretty special experiences out of the process.

Wooden wing? Go for it as well! It will be a bit heavy, but again.. A very special experience. Do post photos smile

Posted By: CaptainKirt

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/02/11 07:42 PM

I think the trick would be to essentially treat it as an F18HP- in fact that mast and sail combo would be even more tempting to me-- just rig it with main and spi. Could maybe find an 18sqm sail to use? Not sure of length of f18 mast though- now to really "Franken" it add wings and the above F18HP so you can match the righting moment--
Posted By: tshan

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/04/11 11:53 PM

I've seen ppl try a N5.8 rig on N5.2 (20 yrs ago) - wasn't that much of an improvement in anything worth sailing in. Overpowered too early. That would seem to be more pronounced in on the F16 platform.

Fun experiment, tho.
Posted By: CaptainKirt

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/05/11 12:00 AM

I've often thought of putting one of my "A" cat masts up on the Taipan to try it, CF one would be longer and lighter- Greg Goodall told me not to waste my time- would just make boat too "tippy" and drive bows too hard- But a Viper bow may be a different story. You would lose sail area if you used the "A" sail so would need to find a bigger sail w/ longer luff (and I happened to have a few 18sq sails around-- If light air might be a killer but anything over 8 would be crazy even with racks-)

Kirt
Posted By: tshan

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/05/11 12:06 AM

You know they actually engineer the dimensions to build boats optimally, so while fun - it probably isnt worth the hassle unless you have too much free time, no wimmen (Ding told me) and long winters to think abt this type of stuff.

Good to see you lurking Kirt.

F18HP would be better - agree.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/05/11 03:47 AM

Add some lead and you could race it as an F18, right? Are their rules Maximums? As in max hull length? You'd fit right in, well below max. Once you add the lead to get the wt. up to F18 specs. it might not be too fast though. Still, if you already have all the parts, and all it takes is a little dyneema to rig it up, why not do it and see what happens?

It must get really lonely up there in the woods, and this is in summer, not winter! Choke your Chicken if you must, but please, please, don't kill your cat!
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/05/11 08:50 AM

Don't stop there...... Put a Tornado Spinnaker on the F18 rig as well. I ran a T kite on my old Capricorn a few times for marathons. Had to drop the pole to nearly bow level and raise to hoist hight a little but i t worked.
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/05/11 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainKirt
I've often thought of putting one of my "A" cat masts up on the Taipan to try it, CF one would be longer and lighter- Greg Goodall told me not to waste my time- would just make boat too "tippy" and drive bows too hard- But a Viper bow may be a different story. You would lose sail area if you used the "A" sail so would need to find a bigger sail w/ longer luff (and I happened to have a few 18sq sails around-- If light air might be a killer but anything over 8 would be crazy even with racks-)

Kirt


I'm wouldn't mind putting a Taipan 5.7 or a C2 rig on my 4.9 for a laugh. Macca's Super Taipan rig would be better....... grin
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/07/11 04:41 AM

Sadly, the cost of airline tickets has me choking, and deciding to spend 9 days on Flathead instead of hangin' with my MN buddies. Next year..... Thanks for thinking of me Karl!

Dave
Posted By: Brian P

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/08/11 04:21 AM

ROLF- a truck engine in a beetle??? been there- done that
people laughed at us when we put a supercharged chev 454 into a VW kombi 1970. but they all loved it when it did wheel stands at the race track!!!
Posted By: Mike Fahle

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/10/11 04:29 AM

I put a Mystere 6.0 rig on my Hobie 18 and it fit perfectly. All I had to change was to add a new boom bale about a foot forward of the existing one on the Mystere boom (the rigging fit like it was made for the Hobie). Then I added a 170 sq. ft. roller furling screecher. It was absolutely unbeatable in light air. One capsize and it took an astounding effort to right the boat even though the mast was only two feet longer (probably because of the furled screecher more than the extra 2 feet of mast). A much more succesful iteration was just using a cutdown Mystere 6.0 pinhead mainsail to make a "Mystobie" flat head sail. Lost only 2 or 3 sq. ft. of sail area off the top and got a fuller mylar main with LOTS more roach. It beat Hobie Miracles boat for boat pretty easily. It had a wide wind range and won every race I entered even with multiple rating hits for bigger mainsail and flat head main. (I even made a new "Mystobie" logo for it by combining the Mystere and Hobie logos) It just proved to me how fast the Hobie 18 COULD be and how easily the classs could have been saved if there had been a dedicated class association. It also proves that every now and then a "Frankenboat" can be a great success. It is hard to own several different boats and not want to see what could be...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/11/11 08:22 PM

speaking of unholy unions and SC tall rig, wasn't there a picture of Mr. Roberts & Son reaching on the backside of Steeplechase in moderate air, with the bows literally 2 feet under (many years ago)?

I think he said it's "supposed to sail like that".
Posted By: David Parker

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/12/11 03:10 AM

Quote
wasn't there a picture of Mr. Roberts & Son reaching on the backside of Steeplechase in moderate air, with the bows literally 2 feet under (many years ago)? I think he said it's "supposed to sail like that".


I think this is the photo. Typical day on a SuperCat. Bow down is the secret! You know what they say, "Let the big dog eat!"

Attached picture sc20.jpg
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/12/11 03:54 PM

Bow down is the secret to going swimming on any cat, and yes they did.

If you're going to sail like that you better have a stupid amount of sail area cause you are moving a pant load of water.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/12/11 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
..............you are moving a pant load of water.


How is that compare to a "Butt load" of water.

I'm starting to think Canucks are right, this Imperial system is whacked.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/12/11 06:56 PM

I just like saying pant load, that E-Trade baby is a riot.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/12/11 06:59 PM

OH. LOL

Yeah, that little f'er makes me laugh too. I love it when the cat keeps sneezing. "Bless you Peppers".......
ROFLMA
Posted By: pgp

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/15/11 08:55 PM

DO NOT look up the term gramalkin in the urban dictionary. Seriously.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Curiosity is gonna kill my cat - 07/20/11 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by David Parker
Quote
wasn't there a picture of Mr. Roberts & Son reaching on the backside of Steeplechase in moderate air, with the bows literally 2 feet under (many years ago)? I think he said it's "supposed to sail like that".




I think this is the photo. Typical day on a SuperCat. Bow down is the secret! You know what they say, "Let the big dog eat!"


wait, where is that "shared lift" concept?

© 2019 Catsailor.com Forums