F16 Purchase Decision Guidence Needed

Greetings,
I'm an ole cat sailor for the 60's and 70's. Had the Hobie 14, 16, 18 back then and sailed off Galveston Island. Vast majority was solo and I loved it.

Now I'm nearing 65, 6'4" and 205#'s and want to get back into cat sailing.

Have done some research in the attempt to get up to speed on what has changed in the last 3 decades - WOW!
I'm concluding that at my age and the propensity to solo sail with the need to have a boat that can take my wife or a buddy on occasion, the F16 class is what I should go with.
It seems the ideal solo or two up rig - put out sails as I need them relative to crew.
I will be primarily day sailing and see very little potential to compete, but it would be nice to have that as a remote option.

Thus, I setting out on the pilgrimage to find the best USED F16 to meet my needs yet trying to keep the budget in the less than $12,000 bracket with trailer, less than $10K is even better and at or under $7K is ideal.

That said, I'd sincerely appreciate your guidance as to what brands/models of F16's I should seek out and where are the best places to find them. I interested in what companies have solid reputations for producing excellent F16's.

Ideal cat will be relatively solid/not unduly fragile requiring constant maintenance and expense. It does not have to be the latest generation, a couple iterations back is fine.

Looking forward to your guidance.
Jack
Naples, FL

Look on the Catsailor Classified ads. There are 2 used boats listed. One looks to be real local to you. Tiki Pete owns the same brand boat as the one in Orlando. I'm sure he will be here shortly.

Check with Matt McDonald at Falcon Marine (http://www.falconmarinellc.com). He is very close to you and will know of available second hand boats.

Gill

If you aren't racing then you could look at a Nacra 500. Much simpler than an F16 and a lot less money. For that money you could buy a new one. 500 pic

Very similar size to F16. You can sail 1 person or 2. You can right it with 1 person. Optional spin.

Nothing against the 5.0, if you have a very tight budget and your only requirement is having a 16 foot boat.

Sailing a true F16 is a completely different experience.

Matt the F16 is more of a high performance boat no doubt but at greatly added complexity and cost.

The 500 is also a great deal heavier Dave.

Around 150Kg+ versus the F16 at 104Kg/107Kg up to a real heavyweight at 130Kg

The 500 is a very good boat, easy to handle. Simple rigging, no daggerboard, just skegs. This makes for a very streamlined boat with simple controls.

A F16 will be faster, will go upwind better, and will be way way way lighter. If you race you want a F16.

I'm sceptical with the ability to right a nacra 500 alone unaided in all conditions however. I think a righting pole might be necessary.

yes it is heavier, 300lbs vs 240lbs for the Blade or 285lbs for the Viper.
One person of 160lbs can definitely right the Nacra 500. We have tested it. The mast is quite light.

Hobie 16 Tatoo ?
Any news/thoughts on this cat?
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33457&p=132923&hilit=tatoo#p132923
http://www.hobie-cat.net/download/catalogue/gb/hi_res/16tatoo.pdf
https://picasaweb.google.com/philippe.phileas/Tatoo?authkey=Gv1sRgCI2OnqyIiueWfw&feat=email#
Hole is bows?

F16 is what I'm really after due to weight and my being a solo sailor a majority of the time. As mentioned in my original post, I'm bumping up against 65 and still have my back in good condition. Wrestling a Hobie 16 or the like up the beach is not going to lengthen the life of my back compared to an F16.

Besides the weight advantage of an F16, I like the versatility it gives me for one up verse two up sailors. I can see myself sailing it much of the time with just the main and a spin. Add the jib when I have a crew member aboard.

So what brands/models/years of F16 used should I be searching for?

Agreed: your back will thank you for getting a lighter boat.

I own a 2006 VectorWorks Blade F-16. You could certainly pick one of these up within your price range. These are solid boats. But be aware that the older F-16s like this are very demanding downwind. The newer designs like the Falcon and Viper might be easier to keep upright, but probably not within the budget.

If you mostly sail solo and want something light and cheap and within the budget, consider an old A-cat like a 2000ish Boyer Mk 4. Your back will love you. And you won't miss the spinnaker.

-Geoff

Jack, I forgot to mention the Taipan 4.9. It actually predates the F16 class and was grandfathered into the class. When we weighed boats for the Nationals, we found they were the lightest. There were a couple at Gulfport, you'd have to check with the folks up there. One was damaged in a collision and was repaired the other is original as far as I know.

There are only four models of F16 I'm aware of: Blade, Falcon,Taipan 4.9 and Viper.

I have to agree with the Taipan 4.9, heres a link to my favorite video of a 4.9 in plenty of wind taking on 2 x Blades,F18 Infusion, Wildcat, Taipan 5.7's plus others all of these you'll see in the background
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LzOSWfIZzI

Aussie Blade, Stealth, Razor, Aquaraptor, G-cat F16.

New additions TBC: Bimare F16, Duma F16, Nacra F16

Then of course there are the homebuilds.......

Yeah, but I think Pete as getting at what's in the US, there's a couple of Stealth's, 1 G-cat, and the NACRA only exists on paper. The others I don't think are here at all.

Looks like the Viper is coming up to the top of my list.

"...I do not see myself racing it."

Yeh, yeh, yeh. We've heard that before.

Where are you located?





Nevermind........ Naples.

I know Red Gear Racing has at least one used Viper available.

If you've got a den with some empty space to fill on the mantle, a Nacra 500 might be a good deal. With a rating close to a H16 you might bring home some trophies without a lot of effort!I've always thought that the 5.0 (500) was a lot faster than its' rating.

Falcon 1-up. stiff battens, flat chute.

I am an older guy about your weight and when I looked for a boat two years ago I picked up a used Blade for about your budget.

Downwind there are advantages to the Falcon and Viper when its blowing. I have not moved a Falcon around the beach but I have moved a Viper. Much heavier than the Blade.

I don't think you will find a used Viper in your price range, but there are a couple Blades out there. One in Illinois that needs some work, but could be had for the low end of your budget.

Marks Blade might be sold, and it would be staying in CRAW.

(edit)- not trying to deter you from contacting him, I just know there is an interested party in Wisconsin.

Well, as of this morning I'm still without a Cat. I've been negotiating on a used Viper but it's hit a roadblock on pricing. Thus still open to a good used Blade or Falcon in place of a Viking. Agree on the weight difference advantage of the Blade, however the Blades I've been coming across have been worked hard and not in the condition I'm after. I want to sail the critter not rebuild it or worry about what's going to come apart that someone else "fixed" when I'm 20 miles off shore (I do sail with an EPIRP).

You are going 20 miles off shore, alone, on a "beach cat"?

Really?

Why?


Robi, we got one for you!

Does the Coast Guard charge for rescue?

I have a 2006 VWM Blade in pristine condition in Atlanta (Lake Lanier). Fresh-water only, very little use, always stored under a Kinder cover, sails are in great shape. Basically, good as new. I am the original owner.

If you want to talk, contact me at geoffrey.smith@emory.edu and we can exchange phone numbers.

(Forum Police: Don't flame me. I'll send Rick the money to cover a classified ad.)

Geoff Smith

"You are going 20 miles off shore, alone, on a "beach cat"?

Really?

Why?


Robi, we got one for you!"

I used to do that on my Hobie 16 and 18 - mounted a compass on the front cross beam, packed food and water in a cool cat and pushed off of Galveston Beach going straight out for the day. Carried a full set of replacement rigging and tools in a pocket stitched under the front of the tramp. That's back when I was in my 20's and 30's. I liked solo sailing but prepared as best I could for the risks.

At this point in life, I'd do it again but with a buddy in his fishing boat in the same general area with me so I could hail him on my portable VHF before I activated the EPIRP.

Point is, I want a boat that is in excellent condition.
Whether you are 20 miles out or 4 doesn't matter much if your sailing on a cat that's been abused and breaks up on you.

I don't think you will find a Viper in your price range, but you never know if you have a motivated seller. Vipers have been around in the US since about 2009 I think. Blades since '07??

So the used Blades will be more in that range. There are some out there in good condition. Ask for pictures before you get too far into the negotiations. I'd defintely want to see what the bottoms look like.

BTW, I bought a "reconditioned" boat from Falcon Marine. It came with a guarantee. It's held up quite well.

"Point is, I want a boat that is in excellent condition.
Whether you are 20 miles out or 4 doesn't matter much if your sailing on a cat that's been abused and breaks up on you."

It matters when they have to go find you...and what if you fall off the boat and it leaves you behind? Are you going to use a tether? If you can see shore, at least you know which direction to start swimming. The EPIRB is a must, but I've never had the inclination to go out of sight of land on a beach cat. It's all just water out there, and it all looks the same...so what's the point?

I used to love cruising up and down the coast of NH and Maine, only a couple miles out, so I can SEE something on the shore, not to mention if something did go wrong, I could -maybe- flag someone down.


Oh, and if you want a boat "In Excellent Condition", you may want to buy a new one.

The Blade has been around since 2005 really. Not many were made in 2005 I don't think, but Pete, isn't your boat from 2005? Robi had the first I believe.

I bought mine in May '06.