Sorry Wouter...

I wanted to be sure to get your attention so I put it on the first post...I did not realize it would cause trouble. Sorry, I can go back and delete it, and so can everyone else, which might save you time.

So, how far is it up to Texel? Thanks. Tim

Wouter I saw your post in that thread. I deleted my post as well. I agree with you, we shouldnt have hijacked it. But you do not have to have Rick delete the thread and start a NEW ONE. That is the long way around it, and time consuming. All he would have to do is delete all the replies, and close the thread. That way it will stay where it is, and NO ONE can reply to it.

In addition you as the thread author, (I THINK) you can close it as well. As long as Rick does NOT un-stick it it will remain where it is.

Delete the posts in that thread, Yes lets try that you all !

Lets see if that works

Wouter

Tim,

Chances that I'll sail at Texel are really slim by now. So I may be able to hook up with you. Texel is about 80 miles north of The Hague and you can get up there by train.

Tim how heavy are you, how comfortable are you with spi handling and would it be a problem for you to bring WARM sailing gear. Or what is your butt size ? And are you required to rest during the saterday in anticipation for the return flight ? Absolutely no garantees what so ever; but if the weather is right and I'm in the mood then we could go for a spin.

Mind you water around here is still rather cold, 10 degrees celsius. You'll a proper wetsuit for that.

Also how do you feel about riding a bicycle for say 20 miles ? If weather is nice than we could meet up go to Texel and rent two bicycles and follow the boats around.

I'm up to me neck in uni work this week so everything will be tentative but when everthing had been cleared than it won't take much time to decided what to do.


Wouter

Thanks Wooter. I've got lots of spin experience, my last 3 cats all had them. I weigh about 180-185 depending on what I eat for dinner. I can bring a wet suit, booties, harness and life jacket but if you have a spare life jacket and/or harness that would save me some room and make it easier to carry it all.

I usually ride my mountain bike 10-20 miles a day for execise when I'm home, so I can do 20 miles if it's not a rusted up peice of crap, but we may have to stop for beer several times.

As long as I get back to the hotel by 9-10pm, in time to get 8 hours sleep before I have to go out on Sunday morning I should be ok. I usually take a 3-4 hr. nap on arrival as I will have been awake for over 24 hours but if there is sailing to be done, I can skip the nap!

I understand if it can't be worked out, I just got the trip on short notice and I realize you have a life too, but if we can get together, that would be great. If not, please point me in the direction of the best place to see some cats.

Thanks.

Tim

Tim,

The chance of me doing Round Texel has shrunk to 0.5 % now. The only way I will doing it is when I grap my own boat, put it on the trailer and drive north on one of the next evenings, pay about 200 Euro's in entry fee and transport costs (+something extra for lodging and food) and find a crew that I trust to do a High Winds distance race like Texel with. I have contacted all the crews I trust and either they are allready spoken for or won't do texel. I'm not going to do Texel solo.

So, I think that I can forget about this years Texel race. As a participant that is. So I should be able to hook up with you (barring any late developments in the coming days).

The weather conditions (long term ones) are as follows. :

Saterday : Sun 30 % chance; rain 30 % chance , wind direction NW, force 3, Temp about 14 degrees celsius (rather cold for the time of year.

So we can do two things.

-1- Hook up and go for some sailing at my own club (about 30 km north of the Hague = 20 miles). This is the most relaxed thing we can do and there is a direct train connection between The Hague and Heemstede (where I live) of about 25 minutes. I can pick you from the station and then about 15 min later we're at the coast and my sailing club. I can mostly likely bring you back to the Hague myself as I always go to a movie art house on saterday evening to see a late film. This coincides beautifully with a 9 PM return at your hotel.


-2- We can drive up to Den Helder (closest mainland town to the island of Texel) and jump on the ferry as pedestrians. Rent a couple of bicycles and peddle our way to the start of the round texel. If we are up to it we can cross the island by bike ahead of the leaders and follow the racing that way. Later in the day we cycle back to the ferry (passing a 7 km traffic jam of cars and boat trailers) ; ditch the bikes and get across the channel in about 30 minutes. Then I can drive you back and drop you at the hotel (same as option 1)


Pro and cons of both options.

-1- This is way more relaxed as option 2. I you are of a normal size (xl chest, 180 lbs and about 6 ft) then I have both a bouyancy aid for you and a harness. It is the best way to hang out and talk alot of boat (if that is your thing) and try out a homebuild Taipan F16 that Sam claims never existed and is fitted with incredibally dumb fittings. This can be an adventure in itself ! Con : you may have less to tell when you get home.

-2- You will probably be exhausted by the end of the day and rosy of being in the open air all day. It will be an eventful day. You will witness the biggest cat race in the world when counting participation. The sight of 550 boats (a forest of masts) on the beach is something to remember. Apart from that it feels much like a medium size festival with sand between your toes. We will witness only small parts of the actual race but following the race by bicycle will be fun (if we manage to rent these). The race starts very early : 10 am and therefor we need to go there very early, especially if we want to hook up with some F16 sailors etc. I estimate that we need to leave for Texel at 7 am (maybe even slightly earlier). This could be a problem for you. Besides it is not much fun arriving after the start. Getting you back in time should be easier.


I think that I personally favour the relaxed option. As I wrote in my other mails. I'm up to my neck in university work and a killer assignment. I think that I'll be ripe for some R&R this weekend. But indeed if things don't work out then I can point you in the right direction.

Ehhhm. wait a minute ... (looking up some data on getting to Texel)

If you go to Texel on your own than it will take 2 hours by train to get there. The ferry itself will take about 30 min (excl. waiting for it to leave); cycling to the event area will take another 30 minutes (if you know where you are going); I don't see anybody do it within 3 hours, probably 4 hours or more is a more dependable estimate. If you want to be experiencign the pre start rush than you must really leave Den Haag at about 6 am . And then all that in reverse to get back. That can be quite a trip. Sadly no intercity trains go to Den Helder only smaller local trains (=slow). An alternative would be to go to Den Helder only and look at the cats when they pass the 7 km channel between the town of Den Helder and the island of Texel. The boats will do that somewhere between midday and 2 pm. But you will not really get the full buzz that way.

So, how late are you really free on saterday morning ? I venture that you want to get settled into the Hotel first. Actually, I live less than 10 km (6 miles) from Schiphol airport. I guess that you "off work" time will pretty much determine whether option 2 is viable.

Wouter

Well, seeing the Texel race would be very cool but since we don't arrive into Schipol until 09:35, that will be allmost impossible, so I guess it's option 1, which is more than fine with me. I had not planned on seeing the Texel race, just getting together to empty a few green bottles and maybe sail, if the conditions are good.

I'll be on Delta flt. 42 from Cinncinnati arriving around 09:35. I don't know how long it takes to get from the airport to the Dorint hotel in Den Haag but I'm guessing it will be at least an hour after our landing before I'm there. I can call you on arrival at the hotel and let you know what time I'll be on the train.

Thanks. Tim

Ohh well, by the time we get to Texel the first boats will be finishing. If we are unlucky will just miss the race entirely (except for a few tail enders = not much fun). Soon after that everybody will be packing. Indeed too much hassle for too little enjoyement.





I can be persuaded into that direction. (Now that I looked at getting to Texel in more detail; I fear that I personally don't have much desire to go there, myself. Too early for me. Hell, the briefing is at 8 am ! I'm much more looking forward to sleeping in this coming saterday !)




Check !




Train ride will be 25 min in itself. I'm guessing you'll be spending somewhat more than an hour to get to the Dorint and getting set-up there. Probably will take another hour to get back to me. My earliest estimate for being able to hook up would be about midday (at Heemstede railway station).




Yep lets do it that way.

Can you send me the exact adres of the Dorint Hotel in a private mail. I want can look into the best route to me. I'll send you my phone number in a private mail as well.

Make sure you bring a proper wetsuit with long legs and long sleeves ! Booties are a must. What is your height ?


Wouter





I can call you on arrival at the hotel and let you know what time I'll be on the train.

Thanks. Tim

Do us all a favor, and take some pictures!

OK, Robi, I'll bring my kid's digital camera and maybe I can figure out how to upload the pictures to post here. OR...you could drive up to my house and watch me drink Heineken in person! Bring your boat and we can play the downwind angles.

Wooter, I'm about 5'9" tall, short for my weight yes but it's all muscle...at least that's what I tell my wife.

I have a wetsuit, long legs, no sleeves, but I have a spray jackett I will bring, and a sweater, and booties, gloves, and...

I will try to get the exact address of the hotel tomorrow from the Chief Pilot's office, they are closed now.

I f you take the ferry on time you can see it al.
Its a great to see so many cats struggle too beet the current between Den helder and Texel.

Wouter,
Are you the only formula 16 cat at texel?
I dint not see the blade’s one the list.
1 formula 16
6 spitfire
2 stealth

http://www.roundtexel.com/
Dutch.


www.roundtexel.com/index.asp?ID_Language=2&ID_Group=1
English.

5'9" by 180 lbs ; I will have some gear for you. Probably I can get you a longjohn top so your arms will be covered as well. I hope that you are not to large in the chest. So I got a harness and bouyancy aid for you and probably a wetsuit top. You should bring your "long john", booties, gloves and spray top yourself. Maybe a towel and slippers as well as we have hot showers at the sailing club. Beer is on me. I think we can make this work.

Robi, I have some very cheap digital camera that I also used to make the pics of Jaaps Blade with, so in the right light it'll work alright. I'm sure we can make a few shots here and there.

Sounds like a plan.

Wouter

Well that is just the problem. Tim is landing at 9:35 am and that doesn't allow us to get an early ferry.




No, besides I'm not sailing the round this year. Destiny interfered. My planned skipper Jaap Haasnoot may still do the round (he is there right now) but not if it is blowing dogs of chains.

Bard Louis and Lonneke Stark are sailing their Stealth F16
Geert Ruesink and Raymond v/d Haas are sailing their Taipan 4.9 with F16 spinnaker

Both have listed themselfs respectively as Stealth and Taipan (without the F16 identifier), but both are sailing as Formula 16's (with spi gear etc). Bards Stealth is even a pure F16 of Geerts boats you can say that it is a modified Taipan 4.9

And then also Pete and Dee Mcdowell (UK) are sailing a Stealth F16. Their sailnumber is higher than that of Bard (so their boat was build late 2004) and so it can only be the F16 version as John Pierce is has not made any other versions since 2 and halve years.

Aaron Young has just written in a post that he can't attendent this years Texel race. He wanted to do but things apparently didn't work out for him. Anyway so he is not there.

I, myself, planned to do it this year but destiny decided otherwise. Besides I'm on a F16 holliday remember, spending lots of time on other things in my life; and you don't hear me complain !





The listing that says "Formula 16" (Jaap Haasnoot) is a Blade F16.

Anyway so in summary ;

3 F16's are sailing the round, maybe a 4th will join in if the weather is decent. Aaron Young and myself won't be there (minus 2 boats from the original count)

Wouter

Pete & Dee are husband & wife from Northern Ireland. They sailed the only red Hawk in existance up 'till the end of last year - then bought Stealth. Pete crewed for me on the Spitfire at last year's Nationals. I thought that the Irish Spitfires would get a chance to race against them next weekend at our Western Champs - looks like they have made other plans - I wish them well - I think that Pete crewed on a Dart 18 in last year's Texel.
Wouter: Have a great day with Tim - very brave of you, picking up the tab for the beer

Dermot.

They are ! Well that is a long way to travel.

Good luck to them indeed ! We want to see them coming back in the next years !




Ohhhh SH!T !

Wouter

hahaha if you take pictures you can always email them to me, and I can host them with no problem. As far as going to your house, that is still in the works. As you mentioned its best to wait till summer goes by. The wind is just NOT here, and the afternoon storms are a huge pita!

But I will still up for the lake sail. Maybe have a small F16 gathering, dunno.

What "other things in (your) life" are you doing?
You annouced on 5/11/05 that you had this big fancy work project was going to take up all of your time so you couldn't sail or do anything for your class
BUT, you have managed to post 124 times since then including your little JPOR spreadsheet project.
That is 124 posts in 35 days !!!
You have averaged 3.5 posts a day during a time that you were supposed to be too busy to race.
Obviously that "project" is not taking up too much of your time.

Tell the truth!
You just invented that "big work project" as an excuse to avoid the Round Texel, didn't you?
You live closer to the Texel than anyone else on this website.
You brag about the Texel more than anyone else on this website.
But when it is time to put your boat where your so-called "expert" mouth is, you run and hide.

You even claim that you were going to have someone else skipper your boat so that you could blame them for a poor finish.

You are a heck of a "leader".

oh hey the TROLL came out of his cave.

Hey Sam you sail an F16? I sent you a pm a while back I even reminded you I beleive once, yet you ignored me.

You trash Wouter as being a lier and this and that, yet I seriously think you are a big hypocrite.

Shut the [censored] already will ya! Your post are an annoyance to this board, specifically in the F16 section.

Sounds like Wouter's "destiny" is with a pretty dutch lady. That would be the only thing I can think of that would drag any normal bloke away from competing in what is obviously one of the premium cat races in the world.

Either that, or as Sami inferred, the fear of not being able to put all his wonderful theory into practice.

Phil

Might I just point out that the F16 class (or any other class for that matter) doesn't need (or want) a 'leader'?

We're all big boys and girls perfectly capable of beating our own paths thank you and I don't believe that Wouter ever claimed to be the 'leader' of anything?

Humm, didn't I place full reports on this forum on 5 race days I participated in over the past 2 months ? You only need to scroll down a bit to see how I put "a wonderful theory" into practice. It is not a big secret that I'm just a decent sailor, nothing special. Come to think of it, it is far more important whether I'm a good class builder. Would one say that I succeeded at that ? Well, when even the trolls are regular checking this forum for new stuff then ...


Wouter

Sam, what have your H17 racing results been lately?

Samevans wont reply. He is only good at attacking Wouter. He is a pansy b!tch boy. As usual with Internet thugs.

All he is good for is personal attacks. Watch he wont answer my question or yours Tim. Sounds like a huge hypocrite to me. I even sent him a private message and reminded him over and over about it, yet he decides to ignore it.

He is nothing but a parasite to the F16 community, leeching our ideas and damaging the host.

He is just jealous he doesnt sail an F16.

Okay guys, lets not become trolls ourselfs !

We can't undo a personal attack by personally attacking the source itself and try to come up with even more ugly names.

Just ignore him or only answer back with arguments.

We must all remember that succes breads contempt. So I see Sam as one of the more powerful signs that we are getting somewhere. God knows, no monster modern or classical breaths contempt like he does. So we must be doing something right.

Besides the next full moon is now several weeks away again.

Wouter

(P.S. it is very good to see that I'm not the only one who thinks Sams posts lack taste)

On the motoring forum I frequent we use a later version of the UBB software, this has a nice feature :

"The ignore user function"

This means that you do not see their posts !

I think we need it (please)

or get our own formula 16 forum.

You guys are too easy.
Ask KW little embarrassing question and his helpers come out screaming and cursing.

Robi,
You only sent me one.
I don't hide behind P.M.'s
I am man enough to say what I think in public.

I have have been outing KW's lies and anti-American B.S. for more years than you have known about this website.
When he invented the f16 class, he realized that he neede Americans to get it going.
An example, on 9/15/01 KW posted "I'm known to have my disagreements but this attack is way out of proportion".
So according to him, we deserved to be attacked but that was too much.

I am glad to see that you acknowledge "Wouter as being a lier".

Do you even know what a "hypocite" is?
If you had shown up at the Tommy Whiteside Regatta, I could have explained it to you.
Don't worry, I an SURE we we meet at some regatta this summer.
We will find out who is the "pansy bitch boy".

Jalani,
You should read your class rules.
I have brought this up before, and you people must have igmored it.

2.2 The F16HP class authority
2.2.1 The Formula 16 class authority will be formed by the founder(chairman) of the class and appointed local representatives and related officials.

There is only one person who is THE FOUNDER, HRW KW.
HE has no term limit.
HE appoints all other officers.
HE has no limit on his power.
HE is the only person can can proposed and approve any rule change.
You may not need a leader, but you have got a dictator.

KW,
As you well know, I am not attacking the f16 class, I am attacking you.
I am commenting on is YOUR statements and behavior.
You try to draw the others into to protect instead of responding in a polite and civilized manner.
Don't hide behind the class, stand up for yourself for a change.

You have been bragging about the Round Texel for over five years.
You bragged about it being the biggest cat race in the world.
You bragged about it being in your own country.
You bragged about it being so close to you.
It is only a 3-4 hour race, one little day.
You could race single or double-handed.
Last year, you used cost as an excuse.
This year, you have too much work (and yet you spend alot time on the website).
What will it take to get you to put your boat where your mouth is?


At least Phil used is brain and read what I said and came to his own conclusion.

Tim,

Lets make a relaxed day of it. I checked everything and I may even have a wetsuit for you if push comes to shoove. Boat is ready if you care for a spi and the sailing club bar is open after 12:00 am if you care for a beer. I will bring a magic marker so you can sign you name on our visitors table. There should be a few Aussie signatures on there as well ; from last years DCC F16 event. Who says that cat sailors don;t travel the world for sailing ?

I'm definately NOT going to Texel this year. This is final now. Best way to hook up is for you to find your way to Den Haag railway station (either one, it doesn't matter much which) and catch a train to either Zandvoort or Heemstede-Aerdenhout railwaystations. The latter two are small local railway stations. I can pick you up there from either or you can walk down to the club yourself (when arriving at Zandvoort station). Train trip will be about 38 minutes or 58 min depending on were you get off the train (Heemstede or Zandvoort). More details later in this post.

You have my phone numbers. Give me ring if you drop by. It is pretty sure that I will go sailing; either solo or with you.

For weather forcast go to www.windguru.cz and select "netherlands - zandvoort" in the windguru location input box (and press go.

There is significant cloud cover but also 8 to 12 knots of wind and a moderate seastate of 1.1 mtr tall waves. The wind is from the north west (sea breeze) so should be stable and constant in force. This will be pretty good sailing weather although some more sun should be nice. It will be pretty much upwind along the coast the the north and then downwind under spin, again along the coast, to the south.

If you can't reach me on my fixed line, then try my mobile phone. I could be out on the beach already. If for some reason miss each other then my boat is at the Zandvoort watersport vereniging (Zandvoort watersport club) we're on the South boulevard of zandvoort almost on the extreme southern edge of the town of zandvoort. The club contains many tens of boats so you'll recognise the forrest of masts from a distance. If you have to look for than find the beach in Zandvoort and walk south along the beach.

Travel details :

I can't really see what you best option for transport from the hotel to the Den Haag railway station is. I think you can best ask at the Hotel. There is a direct connection for Den Haag CS station (=Den Haag Central Station) to both Heemstede AND Zandvoort. It is a halve our service meaning that each hour at xx:10 and xx:40 a train leaves with end destination Zandvoort (passing through and also stopping at Heemstede). There are even more trains in this direction but you will have to switch trains at stations to get to zandvoort. I figure it is easiest to take the direction connections and wait it out till the final station (=Zandvoort itself). The cat club is about a 10 to 15 min walk from this station. Head due west till you hit the beach. Than at the water front turn left (south) and walk on till you pass the sail club.

Alternatively you can get out at Heemstede and arrange for me to pick you up. In general both routes will take about as long.

Tim, you can just buy a one-way ticket as I'll be driving you back to the Hotel at the end of the day; It is on my route to the movie art house and my friends.

Pretty much I will go about my business as I would do under normal circumstances, till I receive your call that is. Mostly hanging about and fiddling with my boat.


For more info on the train route, fare and etc go press this link : Train info to zandvoort

It should show you the details to the train trip to zandvoort immediately.

Well, that is it I think.

Have a good flight !

Wouter

GEEZ sam seems to have a lot of time on his hands, AND ALL OF IT'S SPENT WATCHING AND COUNTING AND TWISTING whatever Wouter says! It seems that, in sams eyes Wouter is wrong when he posts and he's even more wrong when he doesn't post. You have a very sad, small minded disposition little sammy, pehaps you should try politics? you would probably fit in like "a hand in a glove" there!

Thanks Wouter, that sounds like a good plan. I'll call you on your mobile phone after I talk to the hotel front desk and find out how long it should take me to get there.

I will bring my wetsuit bottoms and booties, etc but not a life jacket or trap harness since you have an extra one. See you then.

Tim

WOW arent you a tough guy. Sounds like a threat are you actually threatening me?

THAT I can tell you right now. From walking out the lobby to arriving at the club should be about 90 minutes. When I drop you off in the evening it will be about 45 min. In a straight line the distance is only about 45 km = (30 miles). You'll loose relative;y the most time with getting from the hotel to the railway station in Den Haag.

I thought about picking you up as well but we won't win more than 10 minutes with that.
Yep I have the other stuff.

See ya

Wouter

Well, don't think much of it Robi.

Sam wrote back in 2002 (yep it has been going on for so long already) that they would take me back into the Georgia woods and "show me a good time" if I showed up at Spring Fever regatta 2002.

I met Sam there and all he said was "Hi" and all he did was look at me and walk away. Now I'm not that big so something must have been THAT small, that day.

Don't let him spoil your good mood and just ignore him.

Lets get sailing

Wouter

The only way to deal with people like Sam :

Eyy, that must be a good old _norwegian_ troll

OK, Wouter, I'm in Cinncinnatti, gettting ready to leave, everything looks good so far, Plane isn't broke (yet) and weather there looks good. See ya in about 12 hours.

KW,
what happened to your "not become trolls ourselves" policy?
As usual, you said one thing and did another.

So now you have resorted to lies?

Where is the post threatening you?
Give a date or link?

Yes we met.
I was going to the showers and you and Kirt Simmons, who I knew years before I heard of you, were hanging out around the men's room.
I shook his hand and put my hand out to this guy standing next to him, BEFORE he told me your name.
It is just another example of your arrogance to think that anyone would bother to bruise their knuckles on you.
Only a childish low-life would think about starting a fight at a regatta.
I am not surprised that you were in that state of mind.


Robi,
Have you looked up the word hypocite yet?
If so, tell us what I have been hypocritical about.

I want to see if you are man enough to insult someone in person.
My response will depend upon the mood I am in.


Darryl,
It doesn't take much time.
There is no "twisting".
He just can't get into his head that everything he posts can be quickly looked up when he later makes a contradictory statement.
He has done that since his very first posts and I expect him to continue to prove himself a liar.
Notice that he almost never addresses my accusations directly, but chooses to bring up irrelevent subjects?

When did I tell KW that he needs to post more?
You seem to fallen into that same mental void as KW where you complain about things I never said or did, just so you have something to complain about.


Scooby,
It is impossible for most of you to ignore my posts because you see the truth in what I say.
You feel an urgent need to do "damage control" before other, unbiased, readers see the issues I raise and realize the problems in the f16.


STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES BUT WORDS WILL NEVER HURT ME
Feel free to not respond.

That's got to be the most self centered comment I have read all day.

Agreed

Samevans,

All I see in your posts are a little boy throwing insults

Weather of Texel was also on our shore line and we made the smart decision. Had a great day, hung around the club drank some beer and hooked up with Tim's co-pilot and friend for a dinner in Den Haag. Was a very pleasant evening, had lots of fun. Tims eyes were glassing over later one, after putting in a very long day. I'll bet he is sleeping tight now while I'll just upload this picture.

(P.S. as you can see it was cold and cloudy as well)




And here Tim, the pic you requested. You with a kite surfer in the background (it was a good day for them)




Wouter

..

Well, I just got into the pilot lounge in Atlanta, thanks for posting the pictures so quickly! (got up at 06:45 AMS time, now it's 9pm AMS time)

I had a great time, sorry I was not much conversation but by the time I hit the pillow at 10 pm I had been awake (sort of...) for 34 hours. Flying is fun...

I had a great time, thanks for your hospitality, the crew had fun too, thanks for being their tour guide and answering all their questions about the local area.

Too bad the surf was up so high. The pictures don't do it justice becuse of the distance from the camera but Sam, I wish you had come along so you could show us how it's done!

None of the locals were taking their cats out, they all have Kites for those days!

Like Governer Arnold says: I'll be back...and we will sail!

Thanks again and take care. Tim

Hey Tim,Will you ever get to sail in Europe
I am sure that we will all do our best to get you out on the water soon.
I am just back from the Irish Western Champs sailed on Galway Bay. Light winds first day. Finished first day in 3rd place (equal points with 2nd)(light winds)More wind today - finished 4th overall. Huricane 5.9 SX (Spinnaker)1st, Tigers 2nd & 3rd. Spitfires 4th, 5th & 6th. Number 1 Son in 6th place (Spitfire) Number 2 Son 10th and 1st Dart 16 (Largest fleet). 26 Cat entry.
The Tybee DVD you sent me is very good and I have started reading the copies of "Catamaran Sailor" (Well done Mary)

Sam, Can you tell us why putting Wouter down is so important to you ?
Wouter is the first person to admit that he is not the greatest sailor, but he is a very enthusiastic organisor and I don't think that F16 would be where it is, if not for him.(And it is developing no matter what you say) (He is lucky to have other very enthusiastic organisors on all the continents.)
On other subjects you have helped posters with good friendly helpfull advice - what is your obsession with Wouter ?
From reading posts on this forum, (and receiving answers publically and privately)I have my own inpression and picture of the regular posters. By now, I can tell what someones reaction to a post is going to be. (Mary has already thought that my comment above about "Catamaran Sailor" is condescending )
So, in fact Sam, you are insulting the rest of us in assuming that we need you to help us get to know Wouter. By now we know him well, (we have read all his posts, just as you have) we know what to expect of him. But above all we respect him as someone who is always there to try and help newcomers to our sport.

Wouter, Sorry for speaking about you as if you were "out of the room".
You were right to save Tim for another day - those pictures of Texel were "Pure Carnage"

It's been a long weekend,
Goodnight,
Dermot.

Dermot, I'm sure it must be me, bringing bad sailing conditions where ever I go!

It's been raining non-stop here in Florida for over a week, and Hurricane Season is just begining...it could get very ugly with flooding if we don't get some relief soon. Floida is very flat so the water doesn't run right off, it pools up for days in some places.

Well, it can't last forever. I will be back to Dublin and Amsterdam in July or August or Sept. to sail for sure, I am looking for a good dry suit too.

Congratulations on the finishes, wish I could get some racing in too!

See you sometime.

No problem Dermot.

When I was part of started up this thing I knew that I would be in for some abuse. Comes with being in a position like that. If one don't accept that than you are not cut out to build-up, guide or lead any project or team. Sometimes the critique is founded and sometimes it isn't, you can never be right all the time, and the only way to avoid both is to not do anything. Of course that is a selfdefeating solution.

I often get a good laught out of Sams postings and especially the replies he gets on them. He is pretty harmless, much like the guys preaching the end of the time on the street corners, trying to safe you. The fact that always the world still exits the day after shows the value of their sermons. By now we, as the F16 class, have survived tens of "the end is near" reports.

Now for something different.

Looks like you Spitfire guys really enjoyed yourselfs last weekend !

Ohh by the way : I wasn't saving Tim for another day, but rather my boat ! (No offense Tim )


Wouter

That is so typical of you weazey.
You try to hide behind the f16 class, as if that was the issue.
IT IS NOT!!!
Jalani brought the f16class into the discussion, not I.

The issue is your statements about the Texel and your lies about why you refuse to participate.
You started running your mouth about the Texel when you still sailed that leaky old Prindle 16, long before the f16class.
It wouldn't matter what class boat you were on, as long as you put yourself on the starting line.
Why won't you answer that simple question?

My computer will never run out of "ink".
So as long as you continue to lie and then avoid and hide from issues, I will keep typing and make sure that anyone who visits this forum will see you for what you really are.

Dermot,

You have followed in KW's footsteps by interjecting the f16class into any comments I make.

This discussion started about his not attending the Texel and that he planned an excuse thirty days ahead of time.
Of course he was dumb enough to keep posting and racing because he knew that none of his minions would even mention it and embarrass him.
This is not about his lack of skill (although he did brag about his skill in "bad-butt surf" on the general forum.
He announces to the world that he could have negotiated the surf at texel, but he couldn't make it to the race.
Instead he is standing next to the beach 60 miles away.
THIS IS ABOUT HIS PERSONAL ACTIONS NOT COMPLYING WITH HIS PREVIOUSLY ANNOUNCED PERSONAL PLANS(LIES).

I give all liars an oportunity to admit their "mistake' and come clean.
I don't post for those of you who are already brainwashed into weezerworld.
I post for the new visitor who needs to hear the truth.
If I ever say anything that isn't true, you simply have to prove it to embarrass me.
You can save the childish name-calling for someone else who might be intimidated by it.

Sam, I'm really not sure why it's so deperately important to you to convince people that Wouter concocted an excuse for not sailing the Texel - noone else seems quite as exercised as you by such a possibility.

But if it would make you feel better, perhaps you could help out those of us who lack your powers of recollection - when exactly did Wouter say that his work project would prevent him from sailing Texel? Am I right that that's your point? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the issue was finding a suitable crew. Does that seem unreasonable to you? As far as I recall, he expressed the view that his work situation would prevent him from devoting as much time to class activities as he normally does. By all means illuminate this further for us, but I'm just not seeing anything sinister there.

MMT

Not only that, but what is the big deal? Appears to me that Sam is on a personal vendetta.

Who cares if Wouter is a liar or not. I do not know him personally and it really does not affect me directly.

Maybe Wouter said something a couple of years ago that pissed Sam off. SO WHAT! Get over it and carry on. Go sailing more often, its good for you.

Indeed, sad eh ?

Perhaps, If Wouter has so upset you Sam you should just ignore him.

We can all then get on and discuss sailing !

The real qustions are:

Why do all of you care what I have to say?

Why are all of you so obsessed with arguing with me?

Why in the world do you think you can change my mind about anything?

If you don't make any statements or accusations, then I don't have anything to contradict.
It is you who feed me and I am getting fat.
Keep talking

Let me quote myself Sam seems to me you only read what you want.

You guys keep rising to the bait. You keep making the assumption that Sam actually gives a S**T about what you think.
He's is spot on about the Weez and his BS from Day one, If I owned an F16, the Weez is the last person I would want running my classes show.

Post away SAM, I for one love you, not anything that you say, but just the way that you single mindedly keep coming back and coming back and letting nothing that anyone else writes about you or writes about what you post, for one minute alter your steel trap mind set.
Then again I was completely enthralled by the writings of MIGHLETO on sailing anarchy. I read for months his unadulterated babblings concerning the science of MAC sailing (and the principles of boat design in general), and even with some of the best sailors, and yacht designers, in the world contradicting him at every ridiculous utterance that he made, he still stuck to his guns and posted and posted and posted.
You remind me a lot of him SAM (but whereas he did it politely you are very aggressive) and as such SAMMY I repeat I LOVE YOU BABY so keep posting and entertain me.

A post script to my last posting SAM,
Could you please try to be a little more inventive with your tirades against Wouter?
Your first posts shocked people, then later angered, they are now only annoying to them, so if you keep on in the same vein then the impact will gradually slide into mild amusement followed by ridicule, Therefore to enable you to fully entertain me could you please "liven up" your act and find a "fresh" direction of attacking Wouter so that I won't have to look for a replacement "Court Jester"?

I heard someone STAND UP for you the other day SAMMY, someone said that "you weren't fit to F' CK pigs!" and the guy that was standing up for you said, "that was wrong you were" - (fit to F' CK pigs) -

I am confused and puzzled



I'm not going to make any accusations but I will just make a few observations.

What is it with you Sam? Reading a lot of your past posts you've been helpful to many enquirers, you're obviously pretty knowledgeable and yet you seem to have become obsessed with attacking one person on an almost continuous basis for some distant slight. Apart from a passing view of each other at Spring Fever, I believe I'm right in saying that the two of you have never really met?

If it is generally accepted that you and Wouter will never agree (or let bygones be bygones), why not just stop? (both of you).

Squabbles amongst ourselves are divisive and unproductive, no one wins. Wouldn't it be much better for everybody (other people do read and use this forum too you know) if the two of you simply gave up on posting against each other?

Sam, your posts HAVE gone beyond being 'interesting', past being merely irritating and are now heading towards real annoyance. At this point any valid comment you may put forward will surely be lost - you can see that can't you?

Wouter, you've done great things in a short period for the F16 class, your posts are generally helpful and informative (if somewhat technical), but if your general posts are perceived as anti-american, biggotted, overly opinionated and/or highly critical then once again you'll lose a lot of your audience.

The place for private arguments such as we've seen is somewhere other than on this forum, where the majority of members are looking for good humoured banter, informed discussion and assistance with cat related problems/ideas.

Bury the hatchet boys and let's get back to sailing!

Well said John.

Just a quick Postscript to my earlier post:

A very apt quote from TODAY's Scuttlebutt:

Darryl...sounds like you may have watched a re-run of that old classic, "Deliverance" on payTV of late, where one of the hillbillies makes reference to fornicating with a pig, I remember.

I am often amused by the amount of self censorship on this forum. A few choice expletives in the appropriate places adds colour and meaning to everyday conversation.

My understanding of the derivation of that old Anglo Saxon word, [censored], is that centuries ago, a bloke needed the approval of the king, or the king's representative, to marry his wench. On the wedding night they used to put a sign up on the nuptial door that read Fornicating Under the Consent of the King. Facinating how language has evolved over the years.

I suppose appropriateness is the key word. I have learnt never to swear at my crew, but I do swear at myself for making the wrong choice, or that bastard that has just tacked on top of me.

Phil

I see now. The Administrator has an automatic censor set up. How prudish!

I can see that a few more need be used.
Rick

And I had always heard that it was an acronym for a legal term meaning "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge."

Sam:
I love ya man. Good friendship, but you make the forums unpleasant with your arguments. I know you don't agree with Wouter, But Send that SH#T privately and try not to stink up the place with your fighting. Don't give me that freedom of speech Free world internet crap, it's a lame argument and you know it.
By posting in this way, you are actually a bigger problem than the ones you protest. You have become your own worst enemy, so why don't you go offline and e-mail yourself back and forth until you figure it all out.
CARY

Mary!! my mother taught me that "little girls were made of suger and spice etc" and that so, you being such a charming, sweet, lovable woman, you obviously just wouldn't know anything about such language!!!!

Phil, I have taken my spelling from this forum! I am not quite sure what the word really is or what it actually means, but it is usually spelt F' CK on this forum and that’s good enough for me!!!!!

MarkMT,
You don't need much "recollection" when there is a search engine.
You should have been able to find the post yourself since I gave you the date 5/11/05.
The title is Yep, I'll be away for awile
Here is the post:
What I feared has come true. I just got hit with an assignment that scares the living daylights out of me. A fully blown state-space, multivariable and multidimensional controller design assignment. I'll be spending many hours on this baby for the foreseable time.
Luckily the last important mods have been completed and only some grammer and spelling corrections in the less important sections remain. I will try to get away from my assignment and the number crunching PC during the weekends to do some F16 sailing myself, but that is tentative at best.
For the coming months the F16 class will have to be carried by you guys 'n gals; no help from me this time.
Phill is handling the class authority structure project and I think the path to get Blade to Europe is clear to the parties involved now. And not a moment to soon, I might add. Sure can't do these two projects next to this assignment.
So fellow F16 sailors ! It is your turn now. Good luck !
Wouter

Such a grandiose farewell announcement and yet he never missed a day posting.

He claims great expertise about all things sailing, and then he lies about his own actions.
He wants respect and admiration and then does low and childish things.
A person is the sum of ALL of their actions.
What kind of person do his actions add up to?

Robi,
The only reason it is "personal" is because almost everyone else has the yoke of political correctness around their neck and doesn't chose to speak up, which leaves me to do the dirty work.
He insults America and Americans on a regular basis giving all of us ample opportunity to respond, but you don't.
I read a great deal.
I only comment on what I want to.

CraigO,
Save your "breath", they will never learn.

Darryl.
I am glad you are enjoying it.
I appreciate the way you fuel my "act" and help me to expand it.
Childish, low-life insults such as yours, serve to elevate the quality of my comments to a higher level.
You make me sound intellectual.
What would you do if he started insulting Australia regularly?

Cary,
You don't like it, you don't have to read it.


P.S.
If you choose to ignore the truth within my posts,then you only hurt yourselves.
How hypocritical to complain about my complaints and to insult far worse than I ever insult.
It takes two (or more) to have an argument.
YOU SUSTAIN THE ARGUMENTS WHICH YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT

SAMMY: Usually it's too late by the time I read halfway down the post. You still are a damn troublemaker on the forums, if only cause you make the place so unpleasant and controversial.
Wouter's got a job, maybe there's hope for you, too.
CARY

Cary; samevans and his post are a waste of time, energy and bandwidth. Lesson learned. Dont mind him. Its unavoidable.

Hows that tiger treatin-ya? When are we meeting up so you can get a ride on the blade?

Thanks Sam. That's so much clearer.




Hmmm.

Phew! For a while there I thought that we had lost you SAMMY and then just like the provberbial "bad penny" you turn up, and I might say that you seem to have listened to my ever so humble advice and freshened up your "crusade" against WOUTER, (although you still have a long way to go to ward off total boredom and get back to your "shock jock" status) Keep up your attempts at satire SAMMY, you may actually "get there" one day, I for one will watch to see if you ever achieve humanitarian status without "looking like something that fell out of a tall cows butt".
Oh by the way to answer your question - what if wouter started to insult Australia - well most Australians would probably just laugh at the inference and then turn it back on the person insulting them by offering up better insults of ourselves. (if you can't laugh at your self, you are a very boreing uninteresting person) A "national" insult is only an insult when it carries a large percentage of the truth! so take a moment to think about those "American insults" Samuel. Could it be that you are just a little "thin skinned" or perhaps pricked a little by "guilt" (not America SAMMY, but you personally)?

Some one posted me the other day SAMUEL, and said "don't let SAM get under your skin, he's not typical of most Americans, he's just a bigotted, biased unadulterated RED NECK."
Well, I understand what they meant by "bigoted" and "biased" but just what is a RED NECK sam. It is not a term that we are familiar with in Australia (I would like sam to answer this question please people, I would be interested in his personal "spin" thank you)

Actually I just offered up the "cleansed" version of that private post mailed to me! it was from an American living in Texas and the actual text run more like "that G'd D'mned, son of a b'tch Sam is just not typycal of most Americans, he's just a bigottrd c'ck sucking, biassed mother f'cking son of a watermelon seed sucking RED NECK son of a syph'letic sh't licking wh're". My appologiese for any offence but I thought every one here was adult enough to see the actual "venom" that was imparted in the posting. It made me feel that perhaps SAMMY was not appreciated as much as he should be in his "home" country, but I STILL LOVE YOU SAMMY.

Sam,

You say Wouter was still posting even if he had a load of work to do :



Do you not think that Wouter was just having a short break from his assignment to check out a generally happy place like Catsailor.com? I work too and like to take a short break now and then to catch up on the world of cats and cars.

Maybe wouter could spend a few minutes here and there to post on Catsaior, but not a day to go to Texel.

Do you go around to everytone's house when the cannot go sailing on sunday because they are too busy and berate them as well. Sam, please [color:"red"] get a life [/color]

Dunno. Just Comitted to sail F-18 North Ameicans for a week in August, That was the time window I was gonna use to go south. Have to probably wait until the SteepleChase to get back to Fla.
Very active with the Junior Fleet right now, trying to get my daughter on the racecourse and over the finish line much earlier.
I actually like the Tiger. Just that issue of crew . . .
Jeri Blew out her L4-5 Lumbar vertebral disc running the kite on the F-18 at Tommy Whiteside, had surgery last Friday and is doing well, but may never run the kite again. We'll see.
I love Sam Evans, but he's a troll on the forums. He enjoys the crap he gets in return, he has no job and nothing but time to give us all crap on the Forums. You're right, ignoring him is best, but it also seems to give credence to letting his opinionated drivel stand without rebuttal. Best to tell Sam to Shut up, he won't listen , but if that's the only response he ever got it would get to him.
CARY [color:"purple"] [/color]

Awesome! Good to know, maybe some day your little girl will be a great F16/F18 sailor. Taking kids sailing is an awesome way to get them out of the house and off the playstations. Keep that up Cary, it will pay off in the long run with an awesome sailing daughter.

[quote Taking kids sailing is an awesome way to get them out of the house and off the playstations. Keep that up Cary, it will pay off in the long run with an awesome sailing daughter.
[/quote]
Yea, It does pay off. 2 sons crewed for me, one after the other, then got own cats. 2 weeks ago we gathered from different parts of the Country and sailed 3 different cats at our Western Champs . Raced against each other and then sat around in the Club with friends of all ages having a few beers and playing guitar, singing etc.
It's a great feeling
Dermot.
P.S SHUT UP SAM

I just want to chime in and vote for this as one of the top ten catsailor threads of all time.

Darryl,
So you would lower yourself to weezies level, swapping childish ignorant insults?
How long would you keep that up?
You keep trying to bring me down to that level but I don't need to.

RE:REDNECK
I don't spin.
One trait of a "REDNECK" is the extensive use of obcenities, racial slurs and other childish epithets.
I will let you do your own research into the history of the term.

There are almost 300,000,000 Amricans.
I can live without the approval of one with such a colorful vocabulary.


Scooby,
You haven't been paying attention.
On the day of the Texel, KW and Tim met for a sail 60 miles south of the Texel site.
They even posted pictures ON THIS THREAD showing them hanging out on the beach and not sailing.
KW bragged about "5 race days I participated in over the past 2 months".
I checked my facts before I posted.


Cary,
Do you call the childish stream of obcenities and insults from this forum "rebuttal"?
There has never been a successful rebuttal of anything I have ever posted on this forum.
Of course I understand why they resort to such low-life behavior.
It is the old "Emporers New Cloths" defense.
If you can't fight the message, attack the messenger.
You tell me, why is this forum incapable of a civilized debate?


P.S.
Keep the ammo coming(Darryl).

SO! you are not employed SAMUEL! is that because you are
1. Independantly wealthy.
2. Have a working spouse to support you.
3. a "Male mother" that stays at home to look after the children while your wife works.
4. On "workers compensation.
5. On the "dole"
6. Unemployable.
7. legally "insane"
8. (please add if "other")

OH I forgot
10. the "female wifey" in a homosexual relationship (not that there is anything wrong with that)

Well to answer your question SAMMY, we would keep "swapping" national insults about ourselves until the original perpetrator of the "insults" either got sick and tired of not getting the response that they desired and quit or everyone just cracked up laughing at the ridiculousness of continuing "schoolboy" arguments (a bit like your arguments on this forum when you think about it).

AND as I said SAMUEL, I understand BIGOTED, and BIASED (and they would seem to fit) but what I want to know is, do you think that RED NECK also adequateley describes you? Just asking SAMMY, (nothing wrong with that)

Darryl,
Are you still President of the Alpha Omega Class?
Why do you hide your involvement in the other class and the boat building industry?
When will your f16 be ready for market?

When are you going to realize that I am not going to sink to a childish "pissing" contest with you?
You are doing a wonderful job of representing the f16 class and Australia.
Your wit, wisdom and large vocabulary must be attracting new sailors to the f16 class in droves.
I know that Phil Brander is very proud of the job you are doing.

Your counting needs a little help, you forgot " 9. "

So when KW insults the U.S again, we should insult him back until he makes a complete fool of himself?
But that would be stooping to your level and I don't want to do that.
I prefer to ask simple questions (in consideration of the audience) and watch him and his minions make fools of themselves.

You are right about the laughing. I am having a ball.

First you asked for my definition of "redneck" and now you are asking a different question.
Since you don't seem to know what a "redneck" is, it would be useless for me to use the term.
I repeat, do your own research, bring it back here and we can see who is a "redneck".

I see you have adopted KW's trick of using multiple posts to inflate the forum's total.
Does it really make you people feel special to turn one post into four or five in order to brag about a non-accomplishment?
So sad.

Spell my name anyway you want to.
SAMUEL is on my birth certificate.
Some people call me SAMMY.
Most people call me SAM.
I don't care.
An attempted insult from you is irrelavent.
You don't seem to understand how little I care about your opinion.
You are merely a tool to reveal the true nature of KW and company.

P.S
If we keep this up, soon nobody will visit this forum except the minions who want to argue with me
Maybe we can get Rick to change the name of this forum to SAM'S RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION FORUM

I think we should start a new forum and move this thread there and call it the Wooter/Sam Show. I think it will be the most popular forum and it will draw more attention than hiding it in the F16 Forum.

Let everyone enjoy...

That's in fact a viable concern.
I suggest that Sams non-productive posts are not answered, but that we welcome his productive postings.

I know the desire to retort to his taunts (thats really all they are, taunts), but we should not respond 'en-masse' and give him further opportunities to poison the official F-16 forum.

I have to agree with you Rolf, although I also have to admit to having lacked the willpower to ignore him and have responded to his taunts - sorry. I'll endeavour to be stronger in future

As this is the official F16 forum we really should resist any attempt to poison/divert the emphasis away from genuine forum discussions.

Can't Rick bar Sam from posting to this particular forum as he does not have any real interest in constructive discussion, but merely seeks to annoy/irritate/flame/insult etc.?

He'd be welcome to continue on the other forums on this site....

Hey Wouter!

I just got the [color:"red"] 5000th post! [/color] ! (At least it wasn't Sammy)

Crack open that bottle.

Yes it can be done, but I do not think it will be done. It would be the best choice of action, seing how samevans does not add anything constructive to the F16 discussion.

To me he only bickers and attacks Wouter on a personal level and it happens to often in the F16 forums. Seing how Wouter post here a lot more than any other forums, it is only natural for Samevans to attack him here. But like you said it does not provide anything good as far as F16 goes.

It doesnt look good on the f16 community either. F16 wannabee sailors or any other forum lurker can see this as a problem in a class, when in fact it is NOT a class problem. It is a problem that is only on the personal level between Wouter and Samevans, yet seems to spill all over the F16 forums.

One way to resolve this as well, is to take the entire F16 forum and create another separate website/forum and go elsewhere. Sadly but truely the F16 class/community is affected by this, but Rick does not do anything about it. It is the administrations responsibilty to control forum content. On other forums all over the internet, personal attacks are grounds for banning or even deletion of post.

It is well over the top already and it should stop somewhere. Enough is enough.

Lets try to resolve the problem instead of adding fuel to the fire.

[quote] It is well over the top already and it should stop somewhere. Enough is enough.

Lets try to resolve the problem instead of adding fuel to the fire.
[quote]

Don't worry Robi.
This happens every so often. The forum is fine
We all go a little crazy every so often. Sam will settle down. It usually only happens once in the lunar cycle
If we ignore him, he will go away until next month

I think it is fitting that you should be the one. Being new to the class and pretty involved in it.

Congratulations and the best of luck.

Wouter

Wouter, we already had this conversation. You and Me both are kinda tight on $$$$. Right now my boat needs minor repairs and modifications, plus I sold my beach wheels. So no $$$$ for a new website.

Skills are there, but not the funding.

WELL WELL Sammy, Samuel, Sam (which ever you like - my my you really do imagine "insults" when they are not intended, don't you) I see that whenever you imagine, in your paranoia that some one is "getting a little to close to you for comfort", that you use all the resources available to you, to search for any "ammunition" that you THINK will annoy or upset them? Extracting information from previous posts and trying to use them against someone seems to me like the "biggest pissing contest" that you could engage in. I am sorry for you if you could find nothing better than a little innuendo to use that doesn't really fit the truth or fully suit your malicious intent at all; instead it makes you appear to be "clutching at straws". But YES YOU ARE RIGHT (that must sound strange to you, I would bet that no one has ever said that about any of your ignoramus verbal toiletries before?) rather than being an entertained "spectator" of your ridicule of yourself, I have unintentionally been drawn into a being "player" and I really don't like myself in that role. So farewell Sammy, I will in some perverse way miss the hypnotic pleasure of myopic converse with you
p.s. The number nine was not left out "unintentionally" that was “placed” as a "Freudian" character insight key that I am glad you have answered. And one other small point of your inaccuracy (among many that I will resist the temptation of discussing) I am not, do not and have no intention of in the future, of "representing the formula 16" class in Australia" I don't know where that little gem came to you, and the only reason I will answer you on that point is because it is totally incorrect (and we can’t have you being accused of telling "porky pies" now can we SAMMY, it could ruin your reputation as a "crusader for truth, justice, and the American way!!!)
YOU DO AMERICA PROUD SAMUEL KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK (who needs terrorists to tarnish the stature of the US when there is SAMMY)

Hi all,

I avoid these threads like the plague. But as much as I hate to add to it I will, hopefully just this once.

I may be overly sensitive but I don't find any enjoyment in this type of discussion, like some see to. I certainly wouldn't carry on like this in a public place and that is what is being done here.

I am presently trying to promote the class in OZ and part of that was promoting how active a forum F16 has, but I now worry about promoting this forum because if new people come to it and find this sort of carry on, nothing to do with sailing it won't do any good for the class.

If This was my first intro. to F16 class a couple of years ago I would not have continued to come to this forum. However I know how helpful and supportive it can be lets just get back to that.

If Rick won't do something about these posts and we can't take it elsewhere, just ignore them please, some of us are trying to promote sailing F16's.

I know many of us already ignore them, but unless we all do they will keep coming to the front page.

Let's keep it positive and supportive.

Regards Gary.

Oh yes I have. Wouter went for a beer close to home. Have youy been to Texel, I guess not, you don'y know what is involved in getting there. It's not really just a day trip it's a whole weekend or more.

Please check your facts.

Oh, and grow up and go sailing.

Ok, so I'm up late and I find this post...very entertaining. First of all, I am proud to be one of these so called "red-necks." I wouldn't trade my southern heritage for anything. BUT...according to Jeff Foxworthy, King of Redneckdom, you actually lose points on the redneck scale if you own a sailboat. Therefore, Sam is not a redneck. I, on the otherhand am because I drive a pickup truck, I do my drinkin' from a Dixie cup, and county music is what I love (and rock). I also have a dog that is better trained than most adults. Therefore, all these things cancel out the sailboat (all 3 of them ), and leave me with a few points on the redneck scale. That, my friend, is what a redneck is. While there are varying degrees of redneckness, the term is most commonly used as an insult, when in fact the term "white trash" is more appropriate. Once again, Sam is not "white trash" either. I do know Sam, and see him at most every regatta, so I can comment. At any rate, this post only serves to defend the careless use of the term "redneck".
Trey
N20 314
Layline Rigging
www.velocitysailing.com

Alright everybody, let it go !

There is an understanding in place now and this thread should have drifted into the archives some time ago.

Somebodies post is going to have to be the last one in this thread and I say lets Trey's post be just that.

There is no point in relighting the bonfire so stop blowing on the ambles.

Wouter

Whether it is ambles or embers, yes, this thread is officially declared dead.

you "might could" be redneck if you have ever use a weed eater indoors.....

Eric, PLEASE! This thread is dead! Let it rot in peace.