Nacra 16 square

Hi there,
Can anyone tell me something about the Narcra 16 square?
I found some specs on

http://www.nacra.com.au/nacra16sq.htm

Somebody ever sailed it? Does it sail well, can it be used uni and with a crew?
There is one for sale in the Netherlands, I would to like to hear some opinions before I go check it out!

Thanks,

Arend

Hi Arend,

I have seen the cats and raced against them in Australia a few times, they seem to sail OK seem fastest against other cats in light winds upwind in particular. They have boomless mainsails, the hulls are fairly heavy when compared to other Australian 16' cats. Designed to be sailed one up the hulls don't have excess bouyancy but I have seen 2 people on one but not racing.

Have often thought they would go better with a spinnaker F16 one up.

Regards Gary.

Australian VYC yardsticks have this baot at 79.5 with the Taipan uni (no spi) at 76.5 ; the two seem quite close. However Altered (with spinnaker) is racing of 71 (= also A-cat rating) and F18's of 70; to put things in perspective.

Quick Texel (2006) rating calculation suggests that the boat can be around 104/105 when fitted with a spinnaker and a F16 mainsail. If the asking price is right then it good be a good poor mans F16. It will be one of the best boats to convert to a full F16. It will never be really competitive with the newest fully optimized F16 designs but it will be rather close to them just the same. The added spinnaker will make the boat handle downwind legs in big wind better.

How much are they asking for it. As far as I know there are hardly any nacra 16's in the Netherlands, I even though none ever made it to NL. If so then you could have a good position to bring the price down alot. It is an unknown boat in NL and will have a bad resale value because of it. That will be in the advantage of the buyer.

I would check it out further.

Wouter

How similar is the Square to a Nacra 5.2 ?

I've seen a few photos of them; they look like nacra 5.0 in terms of size but with boards insted of skeg hulls and with no jib, just a goofy main.

Fitted a F16 spinnaker to my Nacra 5.2 complete with pole and snuffer etc, seemed to work well and a great learning boat as the main wasn't too large. Didn't get to sail it that much as I sold it and bought a Stealth which came up for sale, felt it was the right move and no regrets.The boat is still sailing so I would guess the rigging mast etc has stood up over time alright.

Hi there,
Thanks for your replys
According to TR number 2006 it has a rating of 117 and with the spin 109 (max spin area 17 m2).
The price is 2700 Eu for a '95 boat, with the spin and first generation Inter17 snuffer (not mid-pole. How about that?
I 'm now sailing a Prindle 15 with spin, witch is great sailing solo, but I can't hardly take someone along.

regards,
Arend

Hum, when I punch in the measurements :

crew = 1
weight inc spi = 150 kg
overall length = 5.00 mtr
Area main + mast = 16 sq. mtr.
mainsail luff length = 7.80 mtr.
Area spinnaker = 17 sq.mtr
width = 2.5 mtr.
tapeze = 1

Then I find Texel 2006 ratings of

112 when sailed as an A-cat
106 when sailed as and F16 (with a spi)

These are faster then the rating given by you.


The spi and snuffer will be at least 4 years old.

For a rare and 1995 model with comparably old snuffer and spi setup I feel 2700 Euro's is only warranted when the boat is in very good condition. Problem is more that because it is such a rare design for Europe that selling it on later will be rather difficult. There will not be any demand for this boat. I think that newer I-17's are already going for 4000 and less. However if you plan to sail with it for another 2 to 3 years and don't mind selling it on for a 1000 Euro's then you'll be alright I guess. Well alright, it may be a decent price afterall, still I would really try to talk it down; it marketvalue due to condition may be good by the one due to demand is not. I don't expect many people standing in line for this offer.


But before buying I wou;d try to test sail it with two onbaord and see whether it has enough volume for doublehanded sailing. If that is important to you.



Wouter

Hi All

I owned a NACRA 16 squared for three years and can advise as follows:

The boat was designed by NACRA Australia in the late 1980's and is essentially a 5.2 hull shortened marginally. Despite being called a 16 it is actually over 17 feet long (to match the actual length of the Hobie 16 which is also over 17 feet)

In its original form it weighed 130kgs but like most Australian NACRA's the newer boats have come down in weight (the 5.8 has come down from 183kg to 165kg in the same time period)

The mast is a 28 foot aluminium teardrop section (same as 5.2 and very strong) and the sail areas is 16m square. Beam is 2.5m.

As far as performance goes it was an absolute dream upwind - very nicely balanced and in some respects nicer in a seaway than my subsequent T4.9 or current Flyer A Class. Memory can play tricks but I still think it would be competitive with both these boats upwind.

Downwind - well unfortunately that was another story - basically very hard to get going fast downwind and would have really benefitted from a radial traveller due to the boomless rig geometry. The sail was very good for its day but the pin-head sail plan doesn't do anything to help downwind performance. In races the T4.9's would go past pretty quickly downwind (hence the yardsticks)

It is a prime candidate for a kite being very bouyant for one person and very stable and several were fitted with the IO type snuffer and a 17m2 kite a couple of years ago - there was some mention that this setup would be made the class standard but I don't think it has eventuated yet. The main challemge is that they are constructed as single handed boats with dual forestays and I'm not sure how they would cope structually with a low bridle and single forestay to fit a current kite set-up (although all that weight has to be doing something!)

The boats are still built and have their own division at NACRA Nationals over here.

Whilst not qulifying as a F16 I have often given some thought to grabbing an older one and racing it with a kite as a boat which would be very competitive for price and a pure pleasure on all points of sail.

Cheers

James

A final note - I just visited the link to the NACRA page and there are a couple of glaring errors (assuming the boat hasn't changed)- length is definitely over 17 feet and closer to 5.5M and the mainsail is a radial mylar not dacron.

Cheers

James

James,

Can you look over the following points and check, something doesn't seem to add up.

You wrote :




The Texel handicap system measures boats and found :

Nacra 5.2 hull length overall = 5.18 mtr.
Hobie 16 hull length overall = 5.06 mtr.
F16 hull length overall = 5.00 mtr.

16 feet = 4.88 mtr.
17 feet = 5.18 mtr.

In effect the Hobie 16 is not over 17 feet long. It is just over 16 feet long, but still less then 17 feet. It is practically halveway between 16 and 17 feet.

If the nacra 16 sq. is a cut down nacra 5.2 hull (5.18 mtr) then this hull must be shorter then 17 feet as well. If they made is metric at 5 mtr as specified then it would be about halveway between 16 and 17 feet as well. To be precise; 16.4 feet or 16 feet and 5 inches. In such a setup it would also be full F16 compliant.


To arend



One could replace these double forestays with a high bridle strop and a single forestay and allow better spi handling that way. OR one could fit a bridle foil and have a long single forestay and be completely free in the way of spinnaker. Both mods are relative simple to make at home and are inexpensive. You may need to have you stays modified at a chandler but that is really inexpensive in most cases.

Wouter

This one of the best a cat that can be convert too a no budget F16.
I don’t think there is a better No budget f16 that is this good.
The nacra f16 (5.0) are doing wel,
You can make a spreader like the nacra 5.5 has.

Wouter

I dug up the original boat review (1988) - you are quite correct (my memory is at fault) the boat is 16 feet 6 inches - I got most correct - it is the same length as the Hobie 16 and the hulls come out of the 5.2 mold.

If this means that it qualifies as an F16 then that makes it a great entry level boat - you should be able to pick an older one up in Australia for around AUS$4K to AUS$5K.

As far as the bridle goes - the forestay tangs are on the outside face of the two hulls (ie same side as sidestay tangs)meaning that the strop would have to cross the hulls which could cause damage and increase loads.

Cheers

James

Now my head is really spinning! At first I was excited about the possibility of an "inexpensive" F16 convert boat. Those thoughts doused by the square not being available in the US.

Now James you're saying this boat is from the 5.2 mold? As Wouter pointed out 17'. What's up? Is the Square "similar to" or actually the 5.2 hull?

Maybe another "Altered" from a 5.2?

It is made in the 5.2 mold and then shortened by trimming the transom so that total length is 5.0m (16 feet 6 inches)

Cheers

James

Do you think they were able to leave the beams in the same location? Wouldn't chopping the transoms move the rudders forward, thus moving the center of latereal resistance forward under the old sailplan causing weather helm? Did they move the daggers forward? The factory can do these things easily, homebuilders converting a 5.2 would struggle.

So, chop the transoms, move the beams (new tramp?), move the boards, new sail plan (several tries needed), etc...tough way to go. Just buy a used T4.9.

0.18 cm = 5 inches is not alot especially not on the sterns. I estimate that you can get away with just chopping it off and rake the mast 1 or 2 degrees further forward.

Wouter

James, Wouter, others,
thanks for your input. James, your story is really motivating!
The boat for sale has the double fore-stays. The spin has a first generetion Inter 17 pole and snuffer. That seems to work fine. I 've arranged a test sail in the summer.

Vic, nice to see you on the net. When are you coming to sail in Maastricht? Our first race is april 16! Are you sailing the voorjaarsbokaal in Hellevoet?

greetings,
Arend

Wouter, Wouter, Wouter, I am surprised at you!
Try it again, please. If you meant 0.18 meters then it is 7 inches. 0.18 cm is gel coat.

A rare error on your part.

Ooops ! Wasn't really clear headed

James S

Reveal your identity & location

You sound like an A class sailor.!!!!

Marcus

Arend,
I gone sail the last 2 or 3 of the voorjaarsbokaal in Hellevoet.
I can’t make it the 16 April.
I think a wait until you have that 16 square.
Its mutts easier to win from you.

I am in the process of buying a 16sq and the defnitley have a dacron pin head sail. The class is fairly popular over here with the single person sailors. What made me so keen on this craft was the fact that I don't have to chase a crew. A number of these craft are racing with a kite set up.
I am keen to learn any tricks to getting the best out of them tho....so if anyone has any ideas I would be very grateful

The Hobie 16 is 16'8" long, not over 17'...

Still off an inch. It's 16'7".

http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_hobie16.html