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M20 vs F20 #224695
11/29/10 03:03 PM
11/29/10 03:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
Atlanta, Ga
BLR_0719 Offline OP
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BLR_0719  Offline OP
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Atlanta, Ga
[Linked Image]
(from John Casey Worldwide)

M20:
253 lbs. (damn..)
258 Ft² main
269 Ft² Spin

[Linked Image]

F20:
~370 lbs
226 Ft² main
301 Ft² spin

I don't really know anything about the M20 so I'll ask here.. What would you rather have?

Last edited by BLR_0719; 11/29/10 03:08 PM.


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Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: BLR_0719] #224698
11/29/10 04:03 PM
11/29/10 04:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
pitchpoledave posted this on the thread over at SA:

Quote
I found this comment on the catsailingnews blogspot site

Xander Pols won the Round Texel in 07 and 08 and here is what he says about the N20carbon:

"Hi all! I can say that the new Nacra 20-Carbon is mutch faster than the M-20. I sailed the M-20 for the last 8 years and won the round Texel race two times with it. But this year i lost all the races against the Nacra-20. It was frustrating to see. So i sold mine M-20 and ordered a Nacra 20. I advice everyone who wants to be he fasted on the water, to do the same!!!

See you on the water!"


Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: ThunderMuffin] #224699
11/29/10 04:23 PM
11/29/10 04:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
Atlanta, Ga
BLR_0719 Offline OP
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BLR_0719  Offline OP
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I wonder why that would be so. If they have similar platforms, ie. banana boards, same sail area, etc., and the M20 is almost 120lbs lighter than the F20, what is it that makes the F20 so much faster?



Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: BLR_0719] #224700
11/29/10 04:28 PM
11/29/10 04:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by BLR_0719
I wonder why that would be so. If they have similar platforms, ie. banana boards, same sail area, etc., and the M20 is almost 120lbs lighter than the F20, what is it that makes the F20 so much faster?


I have a gut feeling that you can build a boat that is TOO light for certain conditions.

However...the Marstrom has had a lot of teething problems and it has a couple different configurations - some with a jib and some without. Some issues may be related to sail development...It's a piece of artwork though. I suspect that it's overpowered for it's (lack of) weight.


Jake Kohl
Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: Jake] #224703
11/29/10 05:13 PM
11/29/10 05:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by BLR_0719
I wonder why that would be so. If they have similar platforms, ie. banana boards, same sail area, etc., and the M20 is almost 120lbs lighter than the F20, what is it that makes the F20 so much faster?


I have a gut feeling that you can build a boat that is TOO light for certain conditions.

However...the Marstrom has had a lot of teething problems and it has a couple different configurations - some with a jib and some without. Some issues may be related to sail development...It's a piece of artwork though. I suspect that it's overpowered for it's (lack of) weight.


The F20 benefits more from the foils because it is wider.

Part (or all) of the weight difference may be due to heavier structural reinforcements associated to the wider width.


Luiz
Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: Luiz] #224707
11/29/10 05:57 PM
11/29/10 05:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Luiz
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by BLR_0719
I wonder why that would be so. If they have similar platforms, ie. banana boards, same sail area, etc., and the M20 is almost 120lbs lighter than the F20, what is it that makes the F20 so much faster?


I have a gut feeling that you can build a boat that is TOO light for certain conditions.

However...the Marstrom has had a lot of teething problems and it has a couple different configurations - some with a jib and some without. Some issues may be related to sail development...It's a piece of artwork though. I suspect that it's overpowered for it's (lack of) weight.


The F20 benefits more from the foils because it is wider.

Part (or all) of the weight difference may be due to heavier structural reinforcements associated to the wider width.


I believe the Marstrom is within 6" of the F20 beam if not equal.


Jake Kohl
Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: Jake] #224708
11/29/10 06:16 PM
11/29/10 06:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
Atlanta, Ga
BLR_0719 Offline OP
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BLR_0719  Offline OP
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10ft/10.5ft M20 to F20



Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: BLR_0719] #224709
11/29/10 06:38 PM
11/29/10 06:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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Because of F20c's higher weight the rating might be a little more forgiving then the M20.
I dont know the exact pricing of both boats but am pretty sure the Nacra costs almost half that of an M20 GTI (lower price=bigger fleet?).

Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: BLR_0719] #224717
11/29/10 11:10 PM
11/29/10 11:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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pitchpoledave  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
I think Macca can clarify the weights of these boats. I think he said that the M20 was in fact almost 350lbs and that the F20c is coming out of the moulds lighter than 370..

Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: pitchpoledave] #224719
11/29/10 11:27 PM
11/29/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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uk
If you stood the two side by side at the beach or boat show - you would take the Nacra every time

The mastrom has looked very dated and dull for a few years now

Sexy sells!


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: M20 vs F20 [Re: TEAMVMG] #224729
11/30/10 10:08 AM
11/30/10 10:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
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macca  Offline
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Posts: 1,021
Australia
The M20 is not really a class boat, there are many different variations out there and I would think that there are very few that are the same specification.

Most of the development has seen Jibs added in order to rectify the reaching speed issues the uni rigged boat has. But other modifications included, different beam widths (now around 3.55m / 11ft 8 inches wide for the top boats) and now curved boards as well.

Take Xanders boat for example: it is now 3.55m wide with high modulus beams (no dolphin striker...) it has the same boards fitted as the Nacra F20 and a big jib.

Herbie's boat has the same beams, marstrom asymmetric section curved boards and a smaller jib than Xanders boat.

Will Sunnucks has 3.60m beams with a dolphin striker and straight boards, big jib etc.

These boats are all weighing between 138 and 150kg. (305 - 330lb) The F20 is about 165kg or 365lb

The Masts are an issue now that the boats are wider and carrying more sail area so we are starting to see them break... Will Sunnucks broke his at Texel in a classic compression failure. He now has a Nacra F20 section.

The Asymmetric foils on Herbie's boat seem to generate a bit too much lift and the transition between modes is too dramatic to be reliable.

So, as Xander said... He sold his M20 and bought a Nacra. The difference is a lot to do with the hull shape and the amount of research and development that was invested in the design, plus the integration and overall feel of the boat. The M20 has moments when you think its unbeatable but as an overall product its hard to beat the F20.




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