Announcements
New Discussions
Building a C-Class Racing Catamaran
by Will_R. 01/13/20 04:36 PM
Tommy Whiteside Memorial 2020
by dave mosley. 01/13/20 02:21 PM
Aus Nacra National Titles 2019-2020
by JeffS. 01/06/20 03:09 PM
What about the old Nacra 18 squared? 11' beam??
by dave mosley. 01/06/20 12:10 PM
The media IS the Democraptic party!
by hobie1616. 12/25/19 09:46 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Sail graphics #219706
09/16/10 01:53 PM
09/16/10 01:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
H
Headhunter Offline OP
journeyman
Headhunter  Offline OP
journeyman
H

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
Iím considering having some large graphics done over a laminate main. So question for some of you sponsored guys Ė any pitfalls with large vinyl graphics I should watch out for? Company recommendations (Iím in Tampa/St Pete, FL)? Any insight is helpful.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Headhunter] #219707
09/16/10 02:04 PM
09/16/10 02:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
I've always liked what they do for the Hobies and F18s in Europe. They basically cover the sails with stuff (check out the H16 European championships sites).

Anyone Euro guys here know what they use over there?

When I had sponsors, I had a sailmaker do the graphics for my H16, but they were small, and the sail was Dacron, so I'm not sure if my experience will help you.

Having said that, I would think that a good sailmaker would be able to help. There are plenty of big boats here with graphics on their huge spinnakers, etc.

Mike

Re: Sail graphics [Re: Headhunter] #219708
09/16/10 02:09 PM
09/16/10 02:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
The graphics that I have had done for my sails have been done at Fastsigns in Tampa. They have done great work! It's a chain, so you'll probably be able to find one closer you you.

PM Robi, on this site....he does graphics too. I think that Jake may do them too.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Headhunter] #219709
09/16/10 02:10 PM
09/16/10 02:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Headhunter
Iím considering having some large graphics done over a laminate main. So question for some of you sponsored guys Ė any pitfalls with large vinyl graphics I should watch out for? Company recommendations (Iím in Tampa/St Pete, FL)? Any insight is helpful.


Any vinyl/sign shop can make graphics for a mylar main. The dacron fabrics sometimes are tricky to apply but mylar receives vinyl graphics very well. In addition to my day job, I own a graphics/sublimation business and we do our own team sails for Team Seacats (we don't normally do big graphics for other teams because our equipment and the resulting graphics are on the small side resulting in longer installation by having to panel large graphics).

So...go to anybody - Fast Signs, etc. I know Robi from this forum isn't too far away from you and he's done a lot of boat work.

Keep in mind that the more information and the better the file you hand to them will result in lower cost and a better result. Also keep in mind that if you pay the extra for a high quality (5+ year (9 year recommended) rating) and it will remove more cleanly from the sail should you need to remove it in the future. Cheaper vinyls will hold up well but will leave a lot of residue when you remove them that will be nearly impossible to clean off.


Jake Kohl
Re: Sail graphics [Re: ksurfer2] #219710
09/16/10 02:11 PM
09/16/10 02:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
The graphics that I have had done for my sails have been done at Fastsigns in Tampa. They have done great work! It's a chain, so you'll probably be able to find one closer you you.

PM Robi, on this site....he does graphics too. I think that Jake may do them too.


I believe most of the Hobie commemorative sails are actually sewn that way.


Jake Kohl
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Jake] #219711
09/16/10 02:17 PM
09/16/10 02:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Chris Green/Flumpmaster did his F18 sails using the same techniques as the Euro teams, maybe he can share some of his experiences.

Re: Sail graphics [Re: Tony_F18] #219712
09/16/10 02:41 PM
09/16/10 02:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Chris Green/Flumpmaster did his F18 sails using the same techniques as the Euro teams, maybe he can share some of his experiences.


That was paint with special flex additives and quite an undertaking! I'm not sure Chris' held up that well but it looked great.


Jake Kohl
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Jake] #219713
09/16/10 02:48 PM
09/16/10 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Talk to Mike Krantz he just put a couple ZHIK logos on his F-20.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Sail graphics [Re: F-18 5150] #219719
09/16/10 03:58 PM
09/16/10 03:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 129
Austin, TX
BoK Offline
member
BoK  Offline
member

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 129
Austin, TX
Here's the link to the pictures of Mike's Boat Some Stickers



Bo Kersey
Corsair 31-1D 276
Re: Sail graphics [Re: BoK] #219742
09/16/10 07:50 PM
09/16/10 07:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by BoK
Here's the link to the pictures of Mike's Boat Some Stickers



I did the decals for the sail. The hulls were done by a fella that does car and boat wraps.


Jake Kohl
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Jake] #219745
09/16/10 08:41 PM
09/16/10 08:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
veteran
TeamChums  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I helped Chris do the Texas flag mainsail with the automotive paint. It had a flexible bumper additive. It has held up well and the new owner has that sail. When he sold it, it was still in great shape. I don't think longevity is an issue.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Sail graphics [Re: TeamChums] #219747
09/16/10 09:19 PM
09/16/10 09:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Jake- Is there a specific brand of vinyl that a person should ask for?

I ordered both mains for my new boat with no logos or sail numbers and will have to have them cut is why I ask.


I'm boatless.
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Karl_Brogger] #219761
09/17/10 05:01 AM
09/17/10 05:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Jake- Is there a specific brand of vinyl that a person should ask for?

I ordered both mains for my new boat with no logos or sail numbers and will have to have them cut is why I ask.


There are several brands and they're kinda regional - my vendor changes brands about every three years (arggg...the colors shift slightly). But, to answer that question, there's really very little difference between one vinyl to the other - all manufacturers offer three or more varying degrees of quality. Low quality vinyls are usually thicker with "goey'er" adhesive. High quality vinyls are very thin with very thin high-tack adhesive layers (that happen to remove more cleanly). The different levels vinyls have some different types of manufacturing processes - but they're all pretty much the same process from manufacturer to manufacturer. They rate the vinyl in expected longevity with outdoor exposure from 3 year to 9 year. Only in the last couple of years has 3M come out with a 9 year vinyl.

When I'm doing sails, I usually use one of the following (depending on color availability which varies for me locally);

Oracal 951 series
3M 7725 series (8 year...but they have a 9 year that works great too)
FDC is a good vinyl (think they're affiliated with 3M).


All of these high end product lines are commonly referred to as "premium"...so if you went into a sign shop and asked for premium vinyl, they'll know what you mean.


All of this assumes that your graphic is only a few colors. If you're getting into something that is full color printed, it's a little different ball game.


Jake Kohl
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Jake] #219780
09/17/10 07:55 AM
09/17/10 07:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
I no longer do graphics.

Re: Sail graphics [Re: Robi] #219783
09/17/10 08:49 AM
09/17/10 08:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
H
Headhunter Offline OP
journeyman
Headhunter  Offline OP
journeyman
H

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
Awesome info guys, much appreciated!

Re: Sail graphics [Re: Headhunter] #219786
09/17/10 09:13 AM
09/17/10 09:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
I've only found one 3M product that I was disappointed in and that was a foam polishing pad for a buffer. Being they're a MN based company, (3M stands for Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing), I try to use their products whenever possible.

So that's good to know!


I'm boatless.
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Karl_Brogger] #219794
09/17/10 11:38 AM
09/17/10 11:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I've only found one 3M product that I was disappointed in and that was a foam polishing pad for a buffer. Being they're a MN based company, (3M stands for Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing), I try to use their products whenever possible.

So that's good to know!


When you get to the point of applying them to the sail, ask here - I have some hints and tricks for you.

I expect to upgrade to some wide format (larger than 48") printing and cutting equipment in the spring/early summer of next year so we'll have full size graphic capability to do boat wraps and large sail graphics. That's part of the motivation behind the new garage and workspace I've been working on.


Jake Kohl
Re: Sail graphics [Re: Jake] #219798
09/17/10 12:55 PM
09/17/10 12:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,252
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
veteran
dave mosley  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,252
Columbia South Carolina, USA
Jake is the man with Graphics, no need to shop anywhere else. He's done Tybee boats for 6 years, all the local boats, and many other things including trophies.
Support a fellow catsailor!


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Sail graphics [Re: Tony_F18] #219803
09/17/10 01:43 PM
09/17/10 01:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
addict
flumpmaster  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Chris Green/Flumpmaster did his F18 sails using the same techniques as the Euro teams, maybe he can share some of his experiences.

I painted a Hobie STX main in 2009 in advance of the Tybee 500 with a Texas Flag design. I used Martin Senour Auto paint with a Urethane flex additive used on Car Bumpers. The paint has held up very well on the sail cloth - no flaking off at all - despite over 1000 miles of hard sailing between the Tybee, GT300 and other races.

I applied the paint using Preval spray cans - because I did not have an HVLP rig at that time. I used approx 15 preval power units and 4-5 glass bowls. I wore a tyvek suit, Nitrile gloves taped up and an air fed mask because of the toxicity of 2 pack paint while it is curing. I started out with a brand new sail fresh out the wrapper.

I prepped, masked, sprayed, each section of the design at a time - 3 per side, 6 total. The star was a vinyl graphic - in 2 pieces because of it's size vs. my friends vinyl plotters max width.

Prep:

1. Large smooth floor area, well dusted room. I used a large canvas floor cloth over my garage floor to lay the sail on.

2. Wash sail with warm soapy water and a sponge to remove any dirt/dust. Dry off (I use a hair drier)

3. Key sail with a scotch brite pad - enough to remove the high gloss when looking at the reflection of a flash light. Don't scrub the stitching.

4. Wipe sail with Acetone to remove dust and any residue not removed by the soapy water.

5. Mask area of sail to spray. I used 3M Blue tape.

4. Spray adhesion promoter - this is almost like contact adhesive. It is part of the paint system and is used to promote adhesion to plastic components.

5. Mix paint, catalyst, thinner per manufacturer - and flex additive. I used twice as much as recommended - not sure if this was necessary but it worked fine on a test section of cloth I did during my R&D.

6. Spray a coat, No tack coat necessary (because of the adhesion promoter). Let the solvent flash and re-coat - about 10-15 mins.

7. Leave a day before removing masking and moving on to the next area. It took me 6 nights of work (actually 7 because I changed my mind on the size of the blue panel when I started the job).

We used the sail within 4 days of painting it. I did have the advantage of Texas heat to aid curing.

The result is stunning - the colors 'pop' a lot more than a vinyl graphic stuck to a sail. If I do one again I will experiment using my HVLP turbine sprayer - as the prevals don't have much capacity and quite a narrow fan.

Chris.

Attached Files
Tybee 500 2009.jpg (296 downloads)

Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Sail graphics [Re: dave mosley] #219804
09/17/10 01:43 PM
09/17/10 01:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
addict
Dlennard  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
+1

Jake does a great job with the graphics. He has done a lot of boats for us and they all look awesome. Go greenroom graphics !

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 37 guests, and 406 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Rocko, Hobieharry, SailorSteve, hobybethyname, ktm950adv
7994 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
JeffS 1
Will_R 1
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,373
Posts266,968
Members7,994
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1