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Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: hobie1616] #101127
03/21/07 07:32 PM
03/21/07 07:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
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Here is what I sent

Dear Madam and Sirs,

Simply registering my dissatisfaction with any decision that would preclude the inclusion of the Tornado as an Olympic Class. It is my understanding you have heard the many well reasoned arguments against such a decision. I will spare my voice and your time from the cacophony and urge you to do the obvious,

Best regards

Charlie Barmonde

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Timbo] #101128
03/22/07 01:48 AM
03/22/07 01:48 AM
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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You know guys, those half-boat snobs can't stand the speed gap. I get bs from the mono guys here all the time. I answer their wittering by banging past on a tight reach with a rooster tail off the bow.
When it comes to the Olympics though I would have thought they would understand that medals is medals.

And Mary, I don't know why you are complaining, you are not even sure the Ts should be there. : )

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: warbird] #101129
03/22/07 02:05 AM
03/22/07 02:05 AM
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Don't forget that if cats are dropped from the Olympics, it will be near impossible and certainly many many years before it will be reinstated!

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: ncik] #101130
03/22/07 06:10 AM
03/22/07 06:10 AM
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Jake Offline
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We made front page Sailing Anarchy.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com


Jake Kohl
Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: warbird] #101131
03/22/07 09:11 AM
03/22/07 09:11 AM
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Quote
And Mary, I don't know why you are complaining, you are not even sure the Ts should be there. : )


What on earth would give you that idea? OF COURSE, we need a multihull in the Olympics -- preferably two of them. We need a two-person cat and a single-hander. And both of them should be "Open" classes -- meaning open to both men and women.

The multihulls are unique in that it should not be necessary to segregate and have separate classes on the basis of sex, as they seem to have to do in most of the monohull dinghies.

I think it is sending the wrong message when they use types of boats that have to be segregated by sex of the sailor.

Sailing should be more like the equestrian events, where there is no sex discrimination -- either for the horses or the riders. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now, whether or not the Olympic multihull class should continue to be the Tornado is an entirely different topic. The point is, we HAVE to make sure at least one multihull class stays in the Olympics, and we should be pushing for two.

The multihull community is just not vocal enough. We take the status quo too much for granted.

Instead of "complaining" after the fact, as we are now stuck doing in the United States, we should all be more proactive about letting our respective country sailing organizations know how important it is to have multihulls in the Olympics -- and WHY.

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Mary] #101132
03/22/07 09:57 AM
03/22/07 09:57 AM
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It is times like these that make me wonder why in the world there were so many voices against developing NAMSA that said, "...we already have a body helping and supporting us." Where is that support now! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

And I added my name to the list and sent letters to all the email address Mary posted. I think we should all send emails and call, if necessary.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: RickWhite] #101133
03/22/07 12:18 PM
03/22/07 12:18 PM

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Guys/Gals:

I just got ths in my email mailbox today. It help to send a comment to them!!

Sent on Behalf Of:

Doug Snell
305 Hobbs Road Apt #102
League City, TX 77573

To:
Mr. Peter Ueberroth
Chair, US Olympic Committee
1 Olympic Plaza
Colorado Springs, CO 80909
Tel: 719.632.5551

RE: Complaint against US SAILING

This complaint is being filed in accordance with the procedure described in the USOC By-Laws Section 8.1; and under the provisions of the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act (ASA).

The US SAILING Board of Directors has approved and forwarded to the International Sailing Federation a submission titled “2012 Olympic Events”. This submission proposes 6 dinghy events and 2 keelboat events, but omits any proposal of a multihull event.

Competition at the Olympic Regatta is held in a number of event categories. US multihull sailors have won Olympic medals in 4 of the 7 Olympic Regattas attended by the US Team. Multihull racing constitutes approximately ¼ of the all racing done worldwide. And, US SAILING has long recognized multihull racing as one of the core competition categories, having established:
* Youth and Adult National Championships
* A national Multihull Council, which is described as follows - “Sailors are represented by Councils & Associations of groups having common sailing interests on a national basis.”
* The Hoyt-Jolley Multihull Fund for the adult championship, and the Stevens Restricted Fund the youth championship.

1. ASA §220524(1) states that a national governing body shall “… be responsible to the persons and amateur sports organizations it represents”.

The “2012 Olympic Events” submission disenfranchises US multihull sailors and the Multihull Council. The Board of Directors has declined to act despite appeals made by phone, email, letter, and in-person by the Chair and Vice-Chair of the Multihull Council and many individual multihull sailors. US multihull sailors challenge the Board of Directors to show that it is being responsible to the persons and amateur sports organizations it represents”.

2. ASA §220524(3) states that a national governing body shall ”…reasonably reflect the views of the athletes in its policy decisions”.

The “2012 Olympic Events” submission fails to reflect the views of US multihull sailors.

The multihull class representative on the Olympic Sailing Committee was excluded from the discussions that resulted in the slate of events that was submitted to the Board of Directors for approval.

The representatives of the Multihull Council were not informed of, or consulted in regard to this pivotal policy decision.

The US SAILING Team multihull athletes, coaches, and other personnel were not informed or consulted; and learned of the submission only after it had been forwarded to the ISAF.

3. ASA §220522(a) states that an “amateur sports organization is eligible to be recognized, or to continue to be recognized, as a national governing body only if it” §220522(a)8 “provides an equal opportunity to amateur athlete… to participate in amateur athletic competition, without discrimination”.

The “2012 Olympic Events” submission discriminates against US multihull sailors. It proposes only monohull events, and thereby denies equal opportunity to US multihull sailors.

4. USOC Article VIII Section 8.1.A.2.c states “ if such remedies [available] have not been exhausted, the grounds upon which the complainant alleges that exhaustion would result in unnecessary delay;

The time required to follow the procedures required to exhaust available remedies will result in unnecessary delay and irreparable harm to US multihull sailors.

The publication by the ISAF of the US SAILING submission is immanent; and this publication will disseminate globally US SAILING’s disenfranchisement of multihull racing.

The ISAF Mid-Year Meeting, for which the submission was made, will take place from 4-6 May 2007. If the submission is not amended or withdrawn it will cause irreparable harm to US multihull sailors.



The US SAILING Board of Directors has not met its responsibilities as laid out in the ASA. The “2012 Olympic Events” submission needs to be amended to include one or more multihull events; or if it cannot be amended it must immediately be withdrawn.

Respectfully,

Doug Snell
305 Hobbs Road Apt #102
League City, TX 77573

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: ] #101134
03/22/07 01:54 PM
03/22/07 01:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Doug,
From whom did you receive that "complaint" to send to the U.S. Olympic Committee? It didn't just appear by magic in your e-mail inbox.

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Mary] #101135
03/22/07 05:18 PM
03/22/07 05:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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Goodonya Mary! I thought that might get a response and it is nice to read you say it clearly!

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Mary] #101136
03/22/07 05:27 PM
03/22/07 05:27 PM
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Get the multihhull medalists and put the photos of them winning in a national full page add. This action devalues their medals and disrespects them and all fierce multihaull competitors around the World. Why would all Tornado sailors NOT want to face the US in the Olympics? It will cost you all a dollar each to place that add. Embarrass the buggers and ask them to explain themselves.

New Zealand was big in Olympic rowing gold in the 80s. We went through a black patch but always backed them. We have one of the strongest rowing teams on the planet again with Olympic golds and many World titles. You gotta keep leaning into the wind.

sailors are sailors and the mono fleets need to show more solidarity.

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: warbird] #101137
03/22/07 05:47 PM
03/22/07 05:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Please realize... this complaint is NOT to US Sailing...

You don't need to be a member of anything... just a citizen of the USA to register your complaint with the USOC.

The US Olympic Committee (USOC) is empowered by an act of Congress to support the efforts of US Athletes in Olympic Competition. The USOC is the legal authority for the team that the USA sends to each game. The US Olympic Committee allows US Sailing to administer the Olympic pathway and could order US Sailing to revise their submission to ISAF because it does not represent the best interests of US Sailors.

http://www.usmultihull.org/

You do NOT have to be a US Sailing member… just a citizen of the United States of America.

Please spread the word and ask all of the sailors you know to support this complaint!

Mark


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Mary] #101138
03/22/07 06:10 PM
03/22/07 06:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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I just found out that complaint to the IOC is what gets sent out when you sign up to protest at that www.usmultihull.com web site. Pretty interesting to go over the heads of the US Sailing people and take a complaint directly to the U.S. Olympic Committee, protesting US Sailing. Good idea.

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Mark Schneider] #101139
03/22/07 06:37 PM
03/22/07 06:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 353
Key Largo
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Oh great multihull leaders, I think Mark's point about recruiting all the sailors we know to our cause is excellent.

How about one of our leaders creating a "cover letter" that we can forward to our friends at our sailing clubs that explains the situation and encourages them to support our cause.

I'd be glad to send it to my monohull friends and enlist their support. Something uniform so that we are all passing along the same message and correct information.

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: barbshort] #101140
03/22/07 08:03 PM
03/22/07 08:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Here ya go. This is a release from Jim Capron, president of US Sailing, about this issue. He wants to make sure we all have the facts right.

United States Sailing Association NATIONAL GOVERNING BODY FOR THE SPORT OF SAILING
To the members of the windsurfing and multihull communities:
Many of you have been writing to me, members of our staff, the Board of Directors, and other volunteers within US SAILING, expressing displeasure and disagreement with US
SAILING’s submission to ISAF on the events for the 2012 Olympic Games.
I appreciate these opinions, but I would like to take a moment to explain our decision and the reasoning behind it. I would also like to answer some of the questions being posed to me.

US SAILING submitted to ISAF a list of eight events that we would like to see in the 2012 Olympic Games. Those included men’s and women’s events in single-handed dinghy,
double-handed dinghy, skiff and keelboat. Our submission was silent on what we would like the other two events to be. Furthermore, our submission did not call for the elimination of any current Olympic event.

The submission that US SAILING sent to ISAF has two goals:
(a) To promote gender equity in Olympic sailing and
(b) To submit eight events in which we believe U.S. sailors will have the best chance to
excel in 2012.

That's it. The submission makes no statement for or against any other event or discipline, nor does it reflect US SAILING’s overall priorities. The submission simply nominates events that give us the best chance to be strong in 2012.

Why does US SAILING want to address gender equity in the Olympics?
Coming from such a rich history of sailing with mixed gender crews, multihull sailors might wonder why we are driving separate men’s and women’s events. We know that the IOC wants gender equity in all its sports, and ISAF has lagged in getting there. US SAILING would support “mixed” events, with teams of men and women sailing together, but there is virtually no support for mixed events anywhere else in the world. Instead, since 1932, many countries have argued for “open” events, like the Open Laser, Open Soling, Open Star, or Open Tornado to promote gender equity. We know that does not work. US SAILING needs to lead the debate on gender equity because few other voices are being heard.

Why did US SAILING’s submission only list eight events?
Quite simply, we made a determination, based on what we know today and the athletes that are currently committed to Olympic class competition, that those are the events where we have a better chance of winning an Olympic medal. We are not saying that we like those events any more than any others, and we are not saying we don’t support any other
discipline.

You should notice, for example, that disciplines such as team racing are not listed in our submission. We love team racing in the United States, and we would have a good chance of winning a medal if team racing was adopted. But team racing is not politically likely to be supported at ISAF, so we left it out of the submission.

This submission lists the eight events we think the United States would be most competitive in for 2012 and that are also likely to have international support at ISAF.

Why is winning medals important?
Aside from the obvious reason, that winning medals is good for the overall sport of sailing in the U.S. and gives us all sailing heroes, we need to win medals to fund future Olympic sailing.

The Olympic side of US SAILING receives no funding from the non-Olympic side of US SAILING. Sailors who join US SAILING to support our Olympic program should know that zero membership revenue (or any other general revenue for that matter) goes to fund the Olympic programs. The US SAILING Olympic program is completely self-funded, primarily through USOC grants and fund-raising. In fact, the Olympic side even pays US SAILING for rent, utilities, postage, etc.
The amount of funding we receive from the USOC to support our Olympic effort is directly tied to our performance on the water at the Games. More medals mean more USOC funding.
It’s that simple.

Is the list of events in the ISAF submission representative of sailing in the United States?

No. It is also not representative of the sailing that the non-Olympic side of the association actively supports and promotes.

Olympic sailing is always in a state of flux. The slate of Olympic events (multihull, keelboat, etc.) is up for debate every four years. Olympic equipment (Tornado, Hobie, etc.) is also up for debate every four years - the year after the events are decided. No class or event is ever guaranteed.

Provided sailing remains in the Olympics, there will always be opportunities for sailors to go to the Olympics, but perhaps not in their first choice of equipment. One of the
hallmarks of great sailors is that they can be successful on different types of equipment.

Charlie Ogletree, who used to sail on my offshore monohull when he lived in Annapolis, was a competitive dinghy sailor before switching to the Tornado.

Has the Tornado been removed from the 2012 Olympics?
Neither the Tornado nor any other class is in the 2012 Olympics at this time. The decisions on events and the equipment used in those events will be made by ISAF, not US SAILING, and this is how it works:

The ISAF member national authorities (MNAs) and classes put forth submissions on events at the 2007 ISAF Mid-year meeting to be held in Paris in May. Some MNAs submit only one event, some a full slate of ten events and others submit a partial slate. Classes also submit events that might use that class’ equipment. At the end of the ISAF Mid-year meeting, a list of possible events is produced. That list gets vetted and debated throughout the year and voted on by the ISAF Council in November to become the final slate of ten events for 2012. Then the whole process begins again the following year to select the equipment that will be used in those events.

Why not recommend a different multihull than the Tornado?
That time may come, but it would be premature to begin discussing equipment now. First we decide on events. If the multihull is eventually selected as one or two of the events, the choice of which multihull class would be important, and US SAILING will be actively engaged in the choice of that equipment.

Does US SAILING support multihull sailing?
US SAILING's role as the national governing body for the sport is to promote sailing. That means all forms of sailing - dinghy sailing, multihull sailing, windsurfing, kite boarding, ocean racing, team racing, match racing, model yacht racing, etc. We do all that. US SAILING's role in fielding a US Olympic Sailing Team is to support competitors and win medals.

I urge windsurfing and multihull sailors to not take the US SAILING submission out of context or read anything in the submission that is not there. The Board decision to submit
eight priority events for the 2012 Olympics is limited to serving our best interests of doing well in the Olympics, and maybe more importantly, helping US SAILING’s ISAF delegation to lead the sport toward gender equity in Olympic sailing.
Jim Capron
President, US SAILING

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Mary] #101141
03/22/07 08:25 PM
03/22/07 08:25 PM

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Quote
Doug,
From whom did you receive that "complaint" to send to the U.S. Olympic Committee? It didn't just appear by magic in your e-mail inbox.


Mary:

Not sure how I got it. Forwarded original email to your email inbox.

Doug

Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: ] #101142
03/22/07 08:33 PM
03/22/07 08:33 PM
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Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: rhodysail] #101143
03/22/07 09:13 PM
03/22/07 09:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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What a silly defence of the US Sailing position. The lack of logic is profound. He should just say... "My good ol boy network tells me this is a winning proposal for the USA".

Gender equity my butt...

Why not recomend Men's and Women's multihull as a solution to gender equity?

A hobie 16 with spin would have world wide acceptance for the women's multihull INSTANTLY. No problem finding an appropriate boat to adopt for the women!

men's and womens keelboats (Soling, Star, Yingling Lightning, J22)
Men's and women's Boards
Men's ane women's single hander (laser, radial, finn or europe)

Men's and women's double handed Dinghy (49ner or 470 or what ever they come up with... )

That covers the sailing spectrum of the various types of boats raced in the world and specifically the USA without considering... Oh... that's my favorite class of boat.

The Hobie 16 with spin easily covers the gender equity issue and the world wide acceptance of the class.

The US proposal is just a political hack job that bows to the Good Ol Boy Network of collegiate dinghy coaches ...

What this amounts to is that the sailing coaches of the top Collegiate sailing programs have wispered to Bodie about their wonderful olympic talent. wonder of wonders ... nobody recomends a sailor for multihulls or boards!

Good Ol Boy networks get you the same ol same ol solutions.

NOTICE... he did not state ANY verifiable FACTS about the notion that the US is strong or has Olympic talent in those skiff/dingy classes/types of boats.

How many skiff races are held in the USA?
How many 470 Men or women's races are held in the USA?
How many catamaran races are held in the USA?
How many 2 person dinghy teams with spins are popular in the USA.

Want to bet on these numbers?

Write to the USOC, join the petiion drive, Have them slap some sense into Jim Capron. (Mind you he has only had the helm since the fall)

Mark


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Mary] #101144
03/22/07 10:20 PM
03/22/07 10:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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It might also be of interest that of the 17 or 18 Olympic Sailing Classes that have existed, if you rank them by the number of medals the US has won, the Tornado is tied with the Finn for fourth. No medal potential?


Jake Kohl
Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: ] #101145
03/22/07 10:22 PM
03/22/07 10:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
Quote
Doug,
From whom did you receive that "complaint" to send to the U.S. Olympic Committee? It didn't just appear by magic in your e-mail inbox.


Mary:

Not sure how I got it. Forwarded original email to your email inbox.

Doug


When you fill out the form at www.usmultihull.org, you get a copy of the email that goes out to the Olympic Committee on your behalf.


Jake Kohl
Re: www.usmultihull.com [Re: Jake] #101146
03/22/07 10:26 PM
03/22/07 10:26 PM

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Quote
Quote
Quote
Doug,
From whom did you receive that "complaint" to send to the U.S. Olympic Committee? It didn't just appear by magic in your e-mail inbox.


Mary:

Not sure how I got it. Forwarded original email to your email inbox.

Doug


When you fill out the form at www.usmultihull.org, you get a copy of the email that goes out to the Olympic Committee on your behalf.

Then I guess that is where it came from. Letters like that should get something going right I hope?

Doig


Last edited by DougSnell; 03/22/07 10:28 PM.
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