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#224506 - 11/21/10 10:02 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Darryl_Barrett]  
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Thank you Darryl for bringing that to my attention...I was unaware of that rule change...I love that all the restraints have been cast off except for length...finally a class where improving performance trumps all the irrational fears that have hindered catamaran development for so long...a completely open class has been long over due.

Regards,
Robert

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#224550 - 11/22/10 07:54 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Darryl_Barrett]  
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Originally Posted by Darryl_Barrett
AS the "practical" interest in the F14 (lots of interest in the concept but very few "on the water" F14 cats) did not seem to "happen", it was voted on some two years ago to make the only restriction on the class the length IE an F14 is any "multi hull" sailing vessel that does not exceed 14' in hull length. Everything else is open. This makes the F14 a fully development class that, if multi hulls are built within that one measurement restriction, eventually the practical design limitations will soon be self regulating.


Could you point me to the F14 Class site.

I often think that the demise of the 18sq fleet in the US was the fact that the prototype boats would pull a horizon job on the production boats.
I would think that for F14s a min-weight and max-area sail would be a good idea.


lesburn1.blogspot.com

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#224552 - 11/22/10 08:51 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: lesburn1]  
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Here is the old site...doesn't look like it hasn't been updated yet.
http://www.formula14.yachting.org.au/

I absolutly love this "no rules" format...finally a place where anything goes...no holds barred. A place where I can try a rigid wing if I want...a place where Darryl can try a foiling 14' tri if he wants...this is perfect...all the other classes have some type of rule that puts creativity in a box in some form or fashion. Each class hits a wall where their restraints keep a lid on potental performance and the sad part about it is that is their rules designed intent.

The 14' length is a perfect place to try out new concepts on a smaller less expensive platform. How about this for a mission statement "Bring your best sailing multi hull, whatever it might be, as long as its no longer than 4.3 meters.
Cry babies need not apply!"

F14 gota love it!!!!

Last edited by Seeker; 11/22/10 09:04 PM.
#224555 - 11/22/10 10:00 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: lesburn1]  
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"I often think that the demise of the 18sq fleet in the US was the fact that the prototype boats would pull a horizon job on the production boats."

This doesn't seem to be a problem since the closest thing to a production F14 is the A&O and it's a full carbon rocket...If a "prototypes" does a horizon job on the fleet why can't the "fleet" step up it's game?

It seems the only accepted method of dealing with such an out come for the majority of cat sailors is to dumb down the better performer to make it "fair". Makes me wonder how much faster and more efficent our boats would be if not for all of the self imposed rules that tie our hands behind our backs.

The better question is why did everyone give up on the class just because one sailor found a better way?



Last edited by Seeker; 11/22/10 10:13 PM.
#224901 - 12/03/10 08:22 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Seeker]  
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Are there any other F14's under construction? Darryl have you moved forward with your foiling Tri bassed on the A & O?

Last edited by Seeker; 12/03/10 08:25 PM.
#224938 - 12/05/10 08:01 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Seeker]  
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The concept is not actually a "Foiler" but instead foil stabilize assisted wave piercing hulls. I have only made half scale models for "proof of concept" (results of which produced some quite dramatic results) Surfice it to say that if I proceeded with a full sized product it would really "shake up" just what the convential percieved performance limitations are! Sadly I am of an age now that I don't think that I will be building any new boats. I have fully passed the business over to my son, so I will only act in a consultation role from now on.
Darryl J Barrett

#224943 - 12/06/10 01:49 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Darryl_Barrett]  
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Oh Darryl, dont leave us hanging like that! :-)

My boatbuilding days are not over yet..

#224945 - 12/06/10 06:34 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
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I'm with Rolf, inquiring minds want to know more about your concept. Any pictures of your half model?

#226962 - 01/18/11 02:39 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: ratherbsailing]  
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New data suggest a offline too......


Victory from gambling. gclub may occur several times per day in the gclub in defeat, too.
#229717 - 03/14/11 04:53 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: mazda]  
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Last edited by Berny; 03/14/11 04:54 AM.
#229819 - 03/16/11 03:21 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny]  
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Great to see this thread is still being supported vigorously.

#229929 - 03/18/11 08:47 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny]  
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Berny, with the utmost respect I point out that one of your pictures is dated April 7th, 2004...that’s just shy of 7 years ago...there have been significant shifts in cat design in that period of time...not saying that your 430 is not a great boat, and fully acknowledge it can hang with the best of them, and beat the vast majority in its class to this very day...but one has to put it all into perspective...$5,400 for a incomplete 7 year old cat seems overly optimistic.
Fair or not, when viewed in the company of the DNA A cat, NACRA 20C and the other latest and greatest offerings to the catamaran community it looks dated. Add this to the fact that the F14 class has not yet "hit its stride”, and it all leads to "no interest". Until the F14 class is presented and accepted as its own viable stand alone class, a cat which is an end unto itself rather than a feeder class to something better, or something for those not able “to handle” a real cat…until it is accepted on its own with no disparaging strings attached it won’t go anywhere.

#230995 - 04/11/11 03:20 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Seeker]  
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Really!

Last edited by Berny; 04/11/11 03:20 AM.
#231012 - 04/11/11 08:21 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny]  
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Sorry Berny, my “sour grape” post above was probably spawned out of frustration of not having the time and resources to push ahead my own F14 project as quickly as I had hoped.
“To error is human to forgive divine”

I do hold firm on my statements about the F14 standing on its own merit. Any time you label something a “trainer” it carries a certain negative stigma with it…the A&O is certainly no trainer, ….and if the performance of your boat is as good as I hear, it’s not strictly a trainer either….since the baby boomers have the money, have the sailing history/experience, are getting older and not as ready/willing/able to drag a 400# F18 around like they could in their glory days, that may be the market to shoot for. All the performance attributes they had on their larger cats in a smaller/lighter/easier to handle on the beach pocket rocket. It is a natural progression as one gets older…there is no other option that is as light, fast and gives all the strings to pull including a spinnaker. One you can modify and “trick out” to your heart’s content.
It sounds like you have exhausted yourself trying to sell it to the youth. As a byproduct, there might be more impact on the youth by getting grandpa to buy it/enjoy it and have the grandson be drawn to “do what grandpa does”. Just a thought…may be you have already tried that angle as well???

#232211 - 05/11/11 07:47 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Seeker]  
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Finally got the inside laminate (Kevlar/S2 glass)on both halves of the first hull.

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#232225 - 05/11/11 12:06 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Seeker]  
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Post cure Florida style...
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#240782 - 12/03/11 06:12 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny]  
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Hi everyone,
I'm no boat builder or designer, hell I don't even sail a cat, yet!
I'm a 15 year old kid, I believe I would fit into your target market, I have read this topic and it's obvious you all put a lot of thought into this, but personally I think you need to choose between the F12 and F14.
Can you create an F14 with 3 different sail sizes, just like the laser, this will give parents the incentive to buy their kids the F14 knowing that they can be sailing it for years.
You need to give the option of either sailing it solo or with 2 on board.
The Mozzie has the option of the sloop rig and a spinnaker, as a kid sailing I have always been drawn to spinnaker boats due to the perception of speed, a trapeze just adds to the fun!
You need an entry level cat, which everyone can sail and everyone is on an equal platform.
I believe you need a 1 design, cheap cat, to attract parents and kids alike.
Forget about carbon, yes it's light, but it's not essential and it's bloody expensive, you're going to have more people coming into a cheap accessible class, not an expensive, elitist class.
The ideal price needs to be around $4,000 USD, and you need to ensure every club that sails cats either has one in their training fleet or has access to one.
You need kids going round showing them off, if that means sponsoring them, then do it!
You need to get a class which kids want to turn to!
Anyway I'm moving to Aus in a few months, where can I get one of these and how much is it going to cost me?


Rob Aitken
#240783 - 12/03/11 06:16 AM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny]  
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Don't get me wrong your thinking is great, but I don't think it will get anywhere near to the optimist if you leave it to who has most money crosses the line first


Rob Aitken
#240797 - 12/03/11 11:54 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny]  
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Hi Rob
Both Berny and I have put the idea of multiple rig options out there before, both here and on the F12 Forum...a sound idea and concept but it doesn't seem to get any traction.

Last edited by Seeker; 12/04/11 10:30 AM.
#240810 - 12/04/11 03:08 PM Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny]  
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Hi Seeker,
Like I said, I don't sail cats yet.
But most successful junior mono hulls have multiple rig options, the buck to the trend is of course the optimist.
The laser won't be half as successful without the radial and 4.7 rig.
But if you don't have the right backing I guess you don't go forward...


Rob Aitken
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