The following is just the opinion of U.S. Head Olympic Sailing Coach Gary Bodie, and does not necessarily reflect that of the Olympic Sailing Committee or US Sailing:


So, based upon that opinion, what would be a good boat to replace the Tornado?

Remember that the boat has to be an International Class in order to be accepted by ISAF as equipment for the Olympics.

I know this throws a stick in the proverbial wheel spokes of this thread...but remind me ... WHY do we want to replace the Tornado?

"We" don't want to. It appears that US Sailing, and possibly ISAF, might be thinking about replacing the Tornado as the Olympic class with a boat that is less developmental, less expensive -- an out-of-the-box boat that a manufacturer could supply in quantity for the major events.

[token response]F16! Its the Answer to EVERYTHING![/token response]

:P

Well, Gary Bodie's whole response to my questions is on the usmultihull thread, and I didn't think I needed to repeat the whole thing here. But he also said ISAF will never accept a formula class (like F16 or F18), nor a development class like the A Class.

All due respect to a dedicated person who has done much for the sport of sailing - Gary is one guy, and there are people lined up around the block to disagree with him on most of his points. Even if this conversation were held among the Olympic Sailing Committee members, I think there would be similar disagreement to Gary's reasoning and conclusions.

If the IOC position is to replace the Tornado, and they are to follow the olympic guidelines for selection, it quickly comes down to one of the one design-one manufacturer boats. How many classes can qualify? Probably only the Hobie 16 without spi.. Such a process would be a re-run of the Yngling travesty.

What is to be gained by replacing the Tornado with a SMOD boat? Not much, as by now we all should know that it is not the cost of the boat that kills campaigns. Besides, the Tornado have evolved into a very mature olympic boat. SMOD boats demands SMOD sailors. Time to support cloning of sailors one-design and perhaps one-manufacturer sailors as well?

The SMOD argument comes up as a way to lower cost and make it affordable for developing nations to compete in the circus. If they (IOC, ISAF e.a) really wanted to do something for the sport, they could start by reserving participation in the games for amateurs only and let the pros play in the AC and big-boat regattas.

He also said it should be a modern cat with spinnaker, so that lets the Hobie 16 out.

I haven't been able to think of any boat that would fit except maybe the SL16 (the new youth boat). I would think that would get fast-tracked to International status. It would also be a good boat for women teams and male-female teams, which would help solve their obsession with "gender equity."

That would also help to get more boats distributed around the world for the youth sailors.

I know, I know. Probably a dumb idea that would never fly.

But what if it comes down to a choice of either eliminating the multihull event or changing equipment? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

How many fleets, NA's and continents are the SL16s represented on? I dont think it qualifies yet, but have not checked it. But more importantly, do we want adults to compete in the games on what is essentially designed as a youth boat?

I dont see how it can come down to either eliminating the multihull event or changing equipment. But this is decided by politics on it's highest and dirtiest level, so nothing should come as a surprise. It is well known that sailing is not very popular with the IOC as it is one of the largest and most expensive sports to have in the games. At the same time sailing dont bring much revenues in as it is not a large TV sport. Over time, I guess sailing will be represented in the games with the Laser and the Laser Radial.

The last Summer Olympics I looked for sailing and couldn't find it. The Tivo doesn't care what its on. I don't know if it would be as worth watching as women's curling but it might be close.

What is the reason for replacing the Tornado? Even if differnet manufactures produce the same design its still a one design isn't it? If there are difference's that the governing body deams an advantage to one manufacturer or another then all they have to do is make a rule about it. Its the same in all sorts of racing, from carts to F1. I've never been on a Tornado but they sure look like the ride to have. That is if you're on more than a H16 budget.

Unless you are very, very, interested, the production is so poor that womens curling is nail-biting-on-the-egde-of-your-seat-so-exciting-you-need-to-go-to-the-bathroom compared to it. There was some coverage on the US networks (I got the Tornado coverage from 2004), but it's nothing compared to the AC productions. Norway scored a first in the Europe class in '04, but TV coverage was abysmal. Until the networks starts putting some real money and enthusiasm into their production, sailing will keep it's status quo within the media world.

The tragic thing is that people actually watch golf. Sailing might not be as exciting to watch as say......(I don't know I've got nothing) but it's gotta be better than golf. I've never seen anything cool about sailing on tv ever. And I get excited when there is a Cat in the backround in a show/movie. Sailing is such a natural and pure sport you'd think with good coverage it would draw a couch crowd pretty easily. Instead of changing equipment that might be the booster that the promoters are looking for. I don't know anything about the micro politics involved in the ISAF so I may be nieve on this subject. I think most people just watch nascar to see the crashes. Try getting some people that aren't very good instead of the "best of the best" try the "best of the worst". Get people like me sailing in the olympics and there would be collosions, rig failures, and plenty of capsizes for all to see. I sense a job opening.

I just watch the womens curling for the scenery.

The problem with sailing is that the success of a TV production is heavily dependent on the weather. Windy and it's exciting for everyone, light and it can be fairly boring even for spectators that know something about sailing (although I love close light weather sailing, it's so much more tactical).

From what I've heard, indoor windsurfing events are very popular in Europe. It's very controlled and predicting an audience is easy, therefore sponsors are easier to entice money out of. It would be a great surprise to me if these indoor windsurfing competitors all used the same gear.

I don't think SMOD is the answer to getting TV coverage, all it is going to do is fill the wallets of SMOD manufacturers, maybe. Some classes refuse to even consider Olympic selection because it ruins local fleets, being an Olympic class is seen as being elitist, and normal people won't buy boats.

The answer to improving TV coverage of events is to have a production crew that has a clue about sailing. Having a camera boat creating a wake right infront of a racing boat is evidence of the newberism of some production crews. Sailing Anarchy has a great shot of a big boat skipper giving the finger to the photo boat because of just this.

The other difference I've noticed between sailing and other sports is that the commentators seem to always explain sailing in general, as opposed to what is actually happening. This even happened when the 18 footers were on TV for an hour or so every Sunday lunchtime. It's not necessary.

I don't believe sailing is the most expensive event to host. It doesn't need a whole building to be built for its venue. AUD$690 million to build Stadium Australia for the 2000 Olympics. Admittedly it is a multi-purpose venue and can be used until it is demolished in 50-100 years, but it is still a rich claim to say that sailing is too expensive to host!

Rant over.

Back to topic...
So why does anyone want to change the Olympic cat class??? I don't get it, it is the fastest bouy racing class in the World! The easiest to follow by non-sailors because there is very little tacking upwind, more of a drag race. It sounds like someone is just trying to create work for themselves.

I'm stumped a bit--you know the saying, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Is there something wrong with the Tornado?

Pros
-fastest of the Olympic boats
-open to men and women
-established international class
-fastest of the sailboats (dunno about the mistral)
-new rig rules should keep it "current" for several olympiads to come
-one-design; not a "formula" design
-did I mention it's the fastest of the olympic sailboats?
-best spectator potential/best TV potential
-really, really fast

Cons
-expensive to buy, maintain, and develop

BUT essentially all the olympic classes are expensive to run, from bobsleds to the Finn. There's no way the Tornado costs more to campaign than the Star!

Exactly.

most of the costs are travel anyway, which is the same for each 2 person boat.

About the cost of organizing the olympic regatta. Here is a link to the olympic sailing centre China have buildt for 2008.: http://www.sailing2008.org/ProjectPhotos/OlympicIntorEN.aspx

As you can see, it is quite a sailing centre, and no less would satisfy the IOC. The number of participants, both athletes and their support teams, in sailing is very high. I am not certain anymore, but sailing used to be one of the largest sports in the games, participant wise. Constructing the facilities on land, running the support/service apparatus on land and finally running _and_ producing the sailing part of it is more expensive than e.g. soccer or the 100m sprint.

The brits have much of this already in place at Weymouth for 2012, so they can perhaps do it cheaper. But sailing is still an expensive sport for the IOC and the hosting country to have in the games. When the income of media sales dont carry its cost, no wonder they want to reduce the event.

Doesn't have anything to do with all those pros and cons. Apparently, the problem is the need for "gender equity" in the Olympic sailing events, in order to please the IOC.

Supposedly, ISAF (on behalf of sailing) has not been meeting the IOC gender equity standards.

A problem is the events that are considered "Open," meaning open to both men and women. But "Open" has been a euphemism for "male." As the US Sailing President said, open events just do not work as far as getting more women into the Olympics.

Unfortunately, our multihull event class is "Open." So at some point if we want to keep multihulls in the Olympics, we are going to have to figure out a way to get more women into the multihull event(s).

This could require a change of equipment. Or an addition to the multihull equipment. For instance, make the Tornado all male and have another multihull that is all female.

Therefore, we should be thinking about all this long before they drop the bombshell that either multihulls have been eliminated from the Olympic sailing events or that sailing has been eliminated from the Olympics, period.

I don't know how anybody can continue thinking that the status quo will be maintained after the recent decision by US Sailing to submit an event list that excludes the multihull for 2012.

Think GENDER EQUITY! Equal numbers of men and women. US Sailing's approach is to submit events that have separate men's events and women's events. According to Jim Capron, US Sailing would support mixed teams (male-female), but there is little international support for that.

We can't just feel self-satisfied because we have sent hundreds of complaints to the United States Olympic Committee and to people at US Sailing about the omission of the multihull. We have to think ahead.

For instance, the US Sailing people keep saying that it is too early to talk about equipment for 2012 -- that the equipment debate is a year and a half away.

However, at the ISAF mid-year meeting in May they not only take submission lists from the countries for the events they want to see in the Olympics -- they also accept submissions from boat classes for events in which those classes would like to be accepted as equipment.

So it is not a year and a half away. It is next month when the lobbying begins.

Complacency is going to either kill the multihull event or kill sailing in the Olympics altogether. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mary,

The primary issue to be resolved by ISAF is gender equity.
Solution... every type of event must be M/W

The secondary issue is which events represent the sport.
Solution, Boards, Cats, Keel Boats, Dinghy, Single handers Covers the sport when you are limited to 10 events.

The tertiatry issue is which equipment.
This is always tough when you have to find international classes that fit the bill.... but it can be done.

Lastly the criteia must consider that he type of equipment chosen as a whole must be as flexible as possible to allow as broad a range of sailors to compete.


There will be tradeoffs... you can't have mens' heavy and light single handers... and not pair them up with women's Heavy and light Single handers and still have just 10 events.



The equipment does NOT cover the weight range for single handers... big guys are left out... Nor does it prepresent the popularity of a particular kind of sailing.
So... the 200 lb + sailors will have to pursue Olympic gold on a Star.
Dingy classes will have to choose skiff or slow tub...

So we should argue to US Sailing....
Two mulithull class's M/W (Tornado and F18/F16)
Two Keel boat class M/W (Star and Yingling)
Two single handed classes M/W (Laser and Laser Radial)
Two Dinghy classes. M/W (49ner and 470)
Two Board classes. M/W (God knows what they use)

Now... if you decide that pure politics will carry the day... (as US Sailing obviously did) have at it... but don't be surprised when the result is bloddy mess and IOC says... who needs this crap!

I think the first step is to develop a consensus among the catsailors for which 5 events should be in the circus...

We cannot get hung up on the class and boat at this point.
(EG... what would happen if ISAF picked a Hobie 16 with chute for the women's boat.... That cold day in hell would predate global warming in the NAHCA!)

Mark,
I agree with you totally. The multihull community needs to be proactive and go on the offense instead of always playing catchup and on the defense and complaining after the fact when things don't go their way.

Instead of begging to keep a multihull event, we should be promoting TWO multihull events -- as you said, one for men and one for women. Tornado seems to work well for the men, so what about the class that would work for the women? I don't think ISAF will accept a formula class. But why not a one-design class that is part of a formula class? But would that end up destroying the formula class?

I still think that the SL16 would work for the women's multihull class. And that's IF that class can get International status.

As far as I know replacing the Tornado has nothing to do with the Tornado. It is related to IOC policy and politics

IOC policy : Sailing is expensive and nobody watches it so, get somebody to pay to donate the equipment for the publicity. (I can't think of any sailing company that would pay to donate boats like Nike does with stuff)

IOC politics - The poor nations feel they have no chance and they don't have the money to participate. The poor nations feel they might have a chance or they might participate if they could charter a stock boat (I think there are more poor nation IOC votes than rich nation IOC votes).

Maybe the thing to do is create a special boat for the Olympics. For example let's create a special F18 that can't be raced outside of the Olympics and strange enough that any F18 would be a good trainer Boron filament mast. Carbon rudders, dagger boards and rigging. A different size illegal sail. OR an F18 with a rigid or semi rigid main. Assemble the boat for the Olympics. Afterwards the "boat" supplier can put the stock parts on, sell it as the Olympic boat and hopefully break even.


Qualification would be must compete in F18 worlds and must not be in the bottom 10%. The F18 builders would agree to provide enough charter boats for all IOC members that want to attend the F18 worlds.


Carl