Turbo Hobie 16 Class/Division:
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<br>Here is something to talk about, what do you all think about a Turbo H16 Class. Basically one would add a (1) square top mainsail, (2) a better down haul system, (3) sail material of your choice for both main and jib, (4) no restriction of sail size, (5) batten material of your choice, (6) and class legal rudder size required but no limit on weight, (7) and spinnaker if desired.
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<br>You may ask why have a Turbo H16 class and I think it is not to replace the H16 one-design class as we don’t want to mess with a good thing but some H16 sailors race in open (PN) or distance regattas and would just like to have a little better pointing ability, more speed on certain points of sail, and a spinnaker to trash the competition. Mike Strahle’s in California is a Trapseat skipper and his brother Carl regularly beat H20’s, N6.0’s, and other bigger cats due to their spinnaker and sailing ability (they just won the H16 Trapseat nationals again). I had the opportunity to talk with several H20 sailors in California and learned they in fact were beating much bigger cats on a very regular basis. And as we learned from a distance race in Florida 8 H16’s beat a field of 20 foot cats such as the I20, etc in time not on PN numbers. So the speed potential is there with a few additions and of course sailing the H16 to it’s full potential. Carlton Tucker a famous sailor said we have yet to see the H16’s full potential.
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<br>So what do you all think? I know some will not be for the additions but I think it would be great to have a little section on the new H16 web site that will be up and running soon to be dedicated to open and distance H16 sailors that want to add a little speed to their boat. Once again I am not suggesting changing our one design H16 class as that would be totally crazy but having a turbo kit or turbo kit info. site would help those with a turbo desire.<br><br>

I don't know how feasible this is, but I'd definatly do the upgrade if there was a class. Some thoughts-
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<br>1) Turbo seems to imply a uni sailing with a jib. Maybe Hobie 16MX is a better term.
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<br>2) Would US sailing give it a PN if there was no restriction on sail area?
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<br>3) How bout getting rid of the comp tip requirement?<br><br>

Should we allow hull modifications?
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<br>Daggerboards might be real interesting.
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<br>Of course a 16 needs more bow buoyancy. It would an interesting fiberglass project to build a set of plumb bows.
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<br>Can we get 6" longer crossbeams?
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<br>For more Sail area a Comptip section be added to an all aluminum mast 1 sail panel height above the normal splice. Might need a little carbon reinforcement. A sailmaker then could add another panel from another sail.<br><br>

I have been thinking a lot about altering the bows of the 16 to look and bouy like a 20. Daggerboards would also be very interesting. Has anyone ever modified the bows?<br><br>

This sounds like a really great idea if there were some initial limitations put on it.
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<br>For starters I don't think hull, mast, or frame adjustments should be allowed. To put it simply if you really want to start messing with the frame... just go buy another boat. There are tons of great daggerboard cats that are already faster than the h16. The h16 hulls are designed asymmetrically to have an "integrated daggerboard". To put a daggerboard on this would be silly, because it could never be as fast as a symmetrical hull with a daggerboard. Messing with the hull will destroy the class, people will say, "Why buy a new boat and do tons of expensive modifications just to make it look like a newer cat like the Hobie Tiger."
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<br>I do however think that an h16 unlimited class is a great idea. For people who want to spend the money to put carbon fiber flattop sails and spinnakers I think it is great. In most other one design racing classes of big boats, like J/29s and Farr40s, you can play with sail area and material as well as running rigging just don't mess with the hull or you lose the one-design class by definition.
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<br>kyle <><
<br>h16 80065
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The 16 is essentially an out dated design but it's strength is in it's one design class. I don't see any reason to mess with that. If you want to sail a modern cat there are plenty of them out there.<br><br>

Many designs could be considered out dated and I really do not look at the H16 as outdated. As a surf cat there is not better design as it works perfectly in the surf, as a racing cat against its own kind it is an exciting design to sail and still is the largest class. And as for speed is it rates as the fastest asymmetrical boardless cat design in the 16 foot range. And on certain points of sail as the sailors in Miami and Caracou regatta found out it is also very fast on these points of sail. Once again Mike & Carl Strahle with their Trapseat spinnaker have no problem beating 20 foot so called modern designs. I also think modifying the hulls and mast etc. is going to far as then you do not end up with a the H16 but something else or some overly buoyant design. The thing that is exciting about the H16 is the current design and its uniqueness among cat designs.
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<br>Yes now that you mention it a restriction on sail size would be a good idea, and we could keep the other criteria’s I mentioned. As I mentioned before having a Turbo class or MX (what does MX stand for) H16 division of the H16 class would not be intended to mess with a good thing. I think Turbo is an appropriate name because even though we are not going from uni to a jib we are adding more sail area to the main due to the square top main and really the word Turbo has no set definition in the area of sailboat designs, etc. And yes the Turbo H16 could very easily get its own PN # as I have already talk to U.S. Sailing PN committee about it and they just need some numbers for people sailing the H16 with this set up. As for the Trapseat spinnaker one would just use the current spinnaker rating system.
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<br>If anything the main change to the H16 would be the square top main and this type of main if anything simply would add more speed on other points of sail that the H16 is slower at particularly in the area of going up wind and actually would add more speed in all points of sail. The lighter rudders just seems to lighten up the stern a little, the more aggressive downhaul is a must for the square top main along with foam battens, a tri-radial jib is not really essential, and a spinnaker just makes sense in this division of the H16 class. I am actually thinking we should be considered a division of the H16 class and not a class, we would be considered an add on, a Turbo kit! I really do not think we need to mess with the H16 class but having a Turbo kit with accompanying new PN number and added speed I think would be a plus for those who want it.
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<br>Thanks for your comments and lets keep it going.<br><br>

I mentioned Hobie 16MX because there is some similarity between this idea and the Prindle 19MX. I don't know what the 'MX' stands for, but a Prindle 19MX is essentialy a Prindle 19 with a square top and a large radial-cut jib, and is much more competitive than the original design.
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<br>Might be worthwhile to look into how the Prindle 19MX class was formed and possibly use that as a model.<br><br>

For the purposes of discussion, here are some draft rules for the Hobie 16 Turbo Class:
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<br>Bylaws/Rules for Hobie 16 Turbos:
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<br>2001 International Hobie 16 Turbo Class Rules - First Draft
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<br>1. Intent and Objective
<br>The intent of the International Hobie 16 Turbo Class is to encourage development of the original Hobie 16 design to the maximum extent possible while retaining certain characteristics deemed essential. The intent is NOT to supplant or diminish one-design racing of Hobie 16s under International Hobie Class Association rules. Specific objectives are:
<br>1.1 Encourage Hobie 16 ownership by allowing experienced sailors an upgrade path other than purchasing a boat of a different design.
<br>1.2 Provide exciting competition to both disabled and non-disabled sailors.
<br>1.3 Encourage experimentation with existing sailing gear and early adoption of new sailing gear through the use of a relatively inexpensive and widely available test-bed, and by providing races in which to test them.
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<br>2. Definitions
<br>2.1 The International Hobie 16 Turbo Class Association shall hereafter be referred to as IH16TCA.
<br>2.2 Hobie Cat USA, Hobie Cat Europe and any of their licensees that are in good standing with respected licensors shall hereafter be referred to as Hobie Cat Co.
<br>2.3 International Sailing Federation shall be referred to as the ISAF.
<br>2.4 The International Sailing Federation Racing Rules shall be referred to as the RRS.
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<br>3. Eligibility
<br>The IH16TCA has the right to declare ineligible any Hobie 16 Turbo that does not conform to the rules presented herein, or is manifestly unsafe in the opinion of the race committee.
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<br>4. Safety
<br>The rules presented herein shall not be viewed as guidelines for safely modifying Hobie 16s. It is the responsibility of the boat's owner to ensure that all modifications are safe and that the boat is seaworthy and safe to sail.
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<br>5. Safety Equipment
<br>5.1 Each person on board shall wear a lifesaving device or PFD (Personal Flotation Device) approved by the recognized authority having jurisdiction at all times.
<br>5.2 Radios may be carried onboard but must be turned off at the beginning of the starting sequence. Radios may be turned on after the boat finishes.
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<br>6. Hulls and Decks
<br>6.1 Only Hobie 16 hulls manufactured by the Hobie Cat Co. may be used. Hulls may not be modified except as expressly permitted herein.
<br>6.2 Hulls may be rubbed, waxed, sanded, built back up to original spec, or buffed in the normal process of maintenance.
<br>6.2 Hull ports may be added. Hull ports shall be no more than 6" in diameter, and there shall be no more than 2 ports per hull.
<br>6.3 Beam may be no greater than 8'6".
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<br>7. Mast
<br>7.1 Only Hobie 16 masts manufactured by the Hobie Cat Co. may be used. Masts may not be modified except as expressly permitted herein.
<br>7.2 A comptip may be added. Only comptips manufactured by the Hobie Cat Co. and installed according to their instructions are permitted. Use of comptips is encouraged.
<br>7.3 Devices for the purpose of controlling sail shape or mast rotation may be connected to the mast, provided that these connections do not significantly affect the structural properties of the mast.
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<br>8. Sails
<br>8.1 Sails may be of any design, material and manufacture.
<br>8.2 A sailor may not add, remove or change sails during a race or regatta unless the sail has been damaged and is no longer usable. Permission to make a sail change must be received, in writing, from the race committee PRIOR to the change being made.
<br>8.3 All batten pockets in the sails must contain exactly one batten at all times. Battens may be of any design, material and manufacture. A sailor may not change a batten during a race or regatta unless the batten has been damaged and is no longer useable.
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<br>9. Wires
<br>9.1 The minimum wire size is 3/32 inch for standing and running rigging.
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<br>10. Equipment
<br>10.1 Any equipment not specifically prohibited elsewhere in these rules is permitted.
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<br>10. Advertising
<br>10.1 Advertising on the boat and sails is allowed per ISAF Advertising Code, Regulation 20.
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<br>11. Disqualification
<br>11.1 If the skipper or crew is disabled, the boat shall not be disqualified for receiving assistance in the event of a capsize or any other event deemed an emergency by the race committee.
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<br>12. Racing Numbers
<br>12.1 Upon receipt of the membership application form and fee, IH16TCA will assign an official sail number. Sail numbers may be requested on first come, first served basis. Otherwise they will be issued in sequence.
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<br>13. Number of crew
<br>13.1 Any number of crew may race provided that no change is made during the race event. If a crew change is required, it must be made only with the written permission of the committee
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<br>14. Minimum Crew Weight
<br>14.1 The minimum combined crew weight shall be 285 lbs.
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<br>15. Minimum Boat Weight
<br>15.1 The minimum boat weight shall be 320 lbs.
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You might want to add a rule on rudder size. I think the rule for this should be as long as the rudder is the exact size and shape of the Hobie Racer Blade its ok. No limit on weight.
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<br>Also the H16 weighs 320 lbs. but with lighter rudders, sail, and batten material the boat may come under the current weight. I have been told with the before mentioned lighter stuff a H16 can actually weigh around 290 lbs. So its just an idea but maybe we should have the minimum boat weight at 290 lbs. or do some weighing to find out.
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<br>I think the class rules should allow Trapseats so those with significant disabilities can sail in the turbo class.
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<br>Also it may be better to have the word Turbo before Hobie 16 as the Trapseat class has the abbreviation H16TS on the US Sailing PN # List and if we call the class the H16 Turbo class then it will be abbreviated H16T. I am almost certain that the US Sailing PN committee will want the word Turbo in front of the word Hobie 16 to keep it clear on their PN list from the Trapseat class.
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<br>What do you all think?<br><br>

Also do you all think we need an exact rule on downhaul equipment, as a stronger downhaul will be needed with a square top main. I am thinking that we may want to leave out a mast rotate kit as legal gear. Just a couple of ideas to think about.<br><br>

I wrote the rules with trapseats in mind. It's not explicit because the philosophy here is "if it's not specifically excluded it's OK" rather than the "if it's not specifically permitted it's illegal" philosophy that most classes have.
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<br>Are there any limitations that should be placed on trapseats? The IHCA has some rules about the skipper's body not crossing the centerline, etc, but as I don't know much about trapseats I didn't know how to take that. We could do a section like:
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<br>16. Trapseats
<br>16.1 If a trapseat is attached to the boat, the helmsperson shall nominate which side of the boat he/she shall steer from prior to each race.
<br>16.2 Ifa trapseat is attached to the boat, no part of the helmsperson's torso shall cross the centerline of the boat.
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<br>I don't know what the implications of that are, but that addition would also serve to explicitly allow trapseats.
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<br>As for rudders, has anyone experimented with rudder shape? I'd be interested to see what higher aspect ratio rudders would do for the boat. Possibly make it more pitch-pole prone. But maybe this is the sort of experimentation we want to encourage.
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Here are the Trapseat rules that might help with your writing of the rules. You must have a lot of experience with this type of rule guideline writing, I know I greatly appreciate your efforts.
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<br>1 - Helmsperson must be disABLED as classified by the IFDS rating system
<br>2 - Crew may be able-bodied (AB) or disABLED
<br>3- There shall be two Trapseats attached to each cat.
<br>4 - The crew ONLY may hike from any position
<br>5 - When racing, no part of the torso of the helmsperson shall pass the centerline of the boat
<br>6 - Before a race the helmsperson shall nominate which side of the boat from which he/she will steer the boat
<br>7 - Rule 4 shall not apply in the event of a capsize
<br>8 - No competitor will be disqualified due to assistance in the event of a capsize or other emergency deemed such by the race organizers
<br>9 - Races will take place in 15 Knots, not exceeding 20 Knots
<br>10 – Official Trapseat races will take place in protected waters
<br>11 - All Hobie 16 class rules apply except where Trapseat rules override
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<br>As for rudder design I think it would be interesting to talk with the guy who builds the 15 foot Sea Spray as I know he has experimented with funky looking rudders with little foils on the ends. So you may be right in leaving the rudder area of the rules free of restrictions. I’ll contact him about the rudders.
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<br>Also just for everyone’s information the square top main does greatly reduce the H16’s tendency to pitch pole due to the fact that the upper half of the sail tends to twist off when sailing in heavy wind, down wind, kind of like an automatic self reefing system.
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<br>Once again do you think we need to put a rule in about the main downhaul.<br><br>

What do these trapseat rules accomplish? Specifically items 3-5. Is this meant to equalize different types of disabilities? Is a trapseat in any way an advantage to an able-bodied sailor?
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<br>Because this class would be mixed disabled and able-bodied there's probably no point in equalizing disabilities. I would also guess that a trapseat would be a disadvantage to an able-bodied sailor, so there is no need to restrict their use (although I notice that the PN for the Hobie 16 Trapseat is not much higher than the PN for the Hobie 16). What do you think?
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<br>As for downhaul I don't think there's a need for restriction there either. Compared to the cost of high-tech sails and rudders, a high-advantage downhaul system is pretty cheap. Once you go over to a cam-cleat based system, I don't think a higher ratio makes the boat any more complicated either.
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<br>For the class name, I think H16 has to come first so that it gets listed next to the other Hobies in the PN list. However I agree with you that H16T could easily be confused with H16TS. Maybe H16S (sport), H16SS (super sport), H16MX (???), H16XL, H16MAX, H16+, H16GT...
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<br>Is anyone else out there interested in this, or are sail-s and I just spinning off into space?<br><br>

To PS:
<br>Couple of nit pickities.
<br>Rule 1., 2.1: International Class status is conferred by ISAF. One design classes are "International" only after a complex and comprehensive evaluation process.
<br>Rule 3.: "ineligible ... or is manifestly unsafe in the opinion of the race committee." Ineligible=not class legal? What is the definition of "manifestly unsafe"? This seems to imply that a race committee can determine if a boat is "eligible" or class legal based on the RC's opinion on the safety of a boat's rig/equipment. If the intent is to restrict the conditions in which a H16 Turbo could race, perhaps a rule: "Entry of any boat may be denied if the race committee determines that the rig or equipment present a danger to the crew, the race committee or other boats" would be more appropriate.
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