Forum Index |  Albums |  Classified Ads |  Catamarans For Sale |  Calendar |  Submit Events
Announcements
New Discussions
Adding a Jib to a Mossie
by Gary Fleming. 12/07/17 11:29 PM
F101 finally in production
by Jake. 12/05/17 06:49 PM
Tradewinds Regatta?
by samc99us. 12/05/17 04:30 PM
Easy way to really learn the Racing Rules
by Mike Fahle. 11/28/17 07:30 AM
Dynema trap lines diameter?
by mmadge. 11/25/17 08:10 AM
foiling chasing UFO
by northsea junkie. 11/23/17 03:12 AM
New Mystere 4.3 in Central Florida
by Mike Fahle. 11/22/17 04:46 PM
36th America's Cup
by waterbug_wpb. 11/21/17 12:10 PM
Fatality During Clipper Race
by Redtwin. 11/20/17 07:56 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
#119085 - 10/09/07 10:18 AM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: fin.]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,021
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,021
Sebring, Florida.
Pete, you crack me up! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
--Advertisement--
#119086 - 10/09/07 11:03 AM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: fin.]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
I remember the at times heated umm discussions between Wouter and myself on the rules.. I'm a box rule guy.. So we didn't see eye to eye.. but the baby works..
So I guess I'm a founding member of the "F16 forum rules" appreciation society

#119087 - 10/09/07 11:07 AM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: fin.]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Pete, What about all the F16 sailors who just aren't bothered with using this Forum and only bought an F16 to sail, race and enjoy and not as an excuse to spend hours on their computer.


MP*MULTIHULLS
#119088 - 10/09/07 11:10 AM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: Mark P]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
Pete, What about all the F16 sailors who just aren't bothered with using this Forum and only bought an F16 to sail, race and enjoy and not as an excuse to spend hours on their computer.


They're probably out sailing.

"Would anyone like something to read?"-M. Prothero

#119089 - 10/09/07 11:19 AM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: Timbo]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Hey Matt, whats with the language? Want to heat this up or cool it down? I have been pretty frustrated myself, but lets keep it cool.
This is not just Wouter you know, I am also concerned so pointing only at him is not fair.

It is good to hear that there were no discussion about changing the status of this forum as the main line of communication within the class by creating a closed forum. That is what both Wouter and I wanted in the clear. Thanks for putting a stop to that notion. Would have been great if it had come earlier so we would not have had to go trough this.
The technical committee was new to me, and I try to keep informed about things. Dont you think mentioning this new creation beforehand would have been proper? It is really no big thing with the mandate outlined here, but it do raise the question if there is anything else going on. No "conspiracy theories" but I hope you can agree that proper communication like we used to enjoy is much better than rumours and surprises like this and the ISAF recognized status.


Not to heat things up with a snide comment, but I honestly found it odd that the F-16 TC was formed with A-cat sailors and only Phill as a class insider. Phill is easily worth 4 A-cat sailors (and that was a joke) so I am not worried, but some more diversity would be good. I am certain we could have found many good candidates if the class had been consulted by a 5 minute post on the forum.

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 10/09/07 11:39 AM.
#119090 - 10/09/07 12:32 PM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: Matt M]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Who is saying anything about a conspiracy ?

I only said that the GC's lack of communication is increasingly spawning discontent.

I never said or suggested that this was intentional on the part of the GC. Something that is obviously required for it to be conspiracy at all.

I am saying however that they should do something about it. As things stand now there is confusion in the class and are getting more promises of reports soon to come.

The people not present at the AGM had to find out via the rumour cirquit that an F16 Technical committee is formed. The rumour cirquit has not confirmed yet who is on it. And I, for one, do indeed object to some members in that committee. However at this time I (or anybody else) can't do anything as there is nothing official or concrete to base a proposal or amendment on, like the minutes of the AGM.


Another point.
Is the class (or the GC) working towards official ISAF acceptance or not ?

This does matter as going for acceptance means we need to change our class rules. One of those has already been done per ballot last june, I believe. A decision to go for full ISAF recognition is a major issue that needs to be decided by the class as a whole. Not going for full ISAF recognitions is just as involved.


Third point :
How does the AGM fit in with the current class rules, that is if the class even wants to have an AGM at all ?

Currently the F16 class rules considers an AGM as on a par with a bar room talk where two or more F16 sailors are present. Basically it doesn't recognize the AGM at all. It can therefor not be an official "event" UNLESS the class rules get changed in the future. This doesn't mean the AGM can not be a valuable exchange of idea's or a preparatory meeting for a larger discussion on the forum, it just means that it isn't part of official class business.


This brings us to your second point

Quote

2)We elected a new Tresurer as Hans Geissler has dissapeared


Nobody is objecting or is going to object to Phill graciously picking up the thankless jib of being the F16 class thesurer. However the AGM as it stands now can not official approve or disapprove anything.

For Phills tenure to become official and approved it must be communicated through the official channels and those are the website and the forum. There the whole class can take notice and possibly give their input.

If we as the F16 class decides to MAKE an AGM official class business then a change of the class rules is in order.

Right now we are in a legal limbo. At one point it is argued that the AGM is official while at the other it is claimed nothing with respect to the class rules has changed. We can't have both at the same time.


On to the other issues raised.

There had been rumours of moving the forum to another location and possibly closing it off to F16 members only. If these rumours are true, which we don't know as the GC neither confirms or denies such things, then that is a major policy shift as well. The class needs to be informed if the GC has adopted that as an official policy and be allowed to discuss and, yes indeed, approve or disapprove of it.


Others have stated that wild speculation and playing with new idea's on this forum is hurting the F16 class. If this is indeed found to be true (which is a whole discussion on its own) then simply shutting down any thread with a "shut up, nothing to see here, move on" is not the right way to handle it.

Lay the issues out on the forum and then continue to propose a policy (accepted/supported by the posters) were we avoid such discussions or put them into a format that is very clearly outside of the official F16 class.

Basically it all comes down to one thing. Communication !


Communicating what is going on or what the stance of the GC is on issues combats confusion and rumours. It also prepares the class for any changes long before they are made and facilitates acceptance of these and allows its members to provide input.

The above listing is by no means exhaustive. And indeed it is time for the minutes to be published so we can get to those other topics.

I know alot of stuff from sticking my antenna up in the air, but I need official communication like the minutes and concrete policies adopted by the GC to be able to propose changes or amendments. And again this is required as per F16 class rules.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 10/09/07 01:03 PM.
#119091 - 10/09/07 03:28 PM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: Wouter]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 221
Hans_Ned_111 Offline
enthusiast
Hans_Ned_111  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 221
Netherlands
Dear F16 sailors,

It is easy to answer this all and i already did try it before, but if everybody just has a little bit of patient what the GC is presenting and what the ideas are and is proposing in what direction we as class can go, then makes it live a lot easier. It will talk/ask to the members and listen to the members about it but if people starts to react or put posts on the CS forum because they are having heard some rumors then it becomes a difficult situation. Of course you can easily say "i have heard this or that" and i send some mails to college sailor/friends and ask what do you know or have you heard about this, you will get an answer from that sailor/friend and you have your rumor. When you put that rumor on the CS then the ghost is out the bottle and not controllable anymore. This is happening many times on this forum and makes it for anybody who is working in any committee or GC or whatever you want to call it impossible to work with, because they are only has to try to explain or defense themselves against the rumors or people.

This is a frustrating and annoying way of working. I think if somebody has a problem or wrong feeling with an issue related to the thing he is sailing or driving or whatever he likes and there is a committee who is trying to get it in good lanes then you should ask one of the committee members about your concerns and not at the back of that committee to others who as also no any idea but heard the same rumor.

You always will get an answer from your committee where you are related to, if it is in your favor or not but at least you know what is going on from the right persons.


Best regards,

Hans Klok

Web : http://www.catamaranparts.nl
Blog : http://catamaranparts.blogspot.nl
Mail : info@catamaranparts.nl

Raptor F16 and A-class builder
#119092 - 10/09/07 04:59 PM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: Hans_Ned_111]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
self_inflicted Offline
journeyman
self_inflicted  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
Well said Hans. It is very easy for people to get the wrong info OR to blow it out of context OR even worse still use what little snippets they do get as a tool to say i have a group of people that are frustrated.If You are frustrated by what the class is doing you attend meetings do proposals and then VOTE. Don't just think because 1 OR 2 people have a bee in there bonnet on a subject, we all should jump on board.And if the proposals get voted down it could be because there are other better ideas or it could be the costs involved OR it could be the fact that ,Why start to splinter a class when the glue isn't even dry on this class yet
I know that there is a LOT of work done behind the forums to keep this class strong and together BUT if people are going to keep on being bashed about the head for doing something they love then it wont be long till the class will self destruct Due to the lack of organisation.
Regards Richard

#119093 - 10/09/07 05:10 PM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: self_inflicted]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
I think everyone should STFU and wait for the minutes to be published.

Those at the meeting know what was discussed. Those od us (me included) will have to wait for the official minutes.

Shall we talk about sailing ?

I'll be attending the bigest Cat event of the year in the UK calendar in 2 weeks time; we expect around 200 boats on 2 courses.

And there is Rugby to watch in the evening.



Oh, and we also might be having a meeting to discuss the RYA and cat sailing.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
#119094 - 10/10/07 02:57 AM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Hi Rolf.
I think you have forgotten John Pierce. His first ever sail on an A-Class was last October and his Stealth projects probably started in the late 90's as I ordered my Stealth'R' (Little Feat) in 2001. Since it's inception John has been a key person in the formulation of all things F16. The fact that he rarely posts on this Forum doesn't necessarily mean that he is not instrumental within the T.C


MP*MULTIHULLS
#119095 - 10/10/07 03:03 AM Re: Something for the F16 technical committee - NO [Re: Mark P]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
John is on the TC? Great! Just the kind of person/builder/sailor I think should be there. Otherwise, I intend to follow Simons advice and STFU about this until the minutes are published <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Damon Linkous, phill, Rolf_Nilsen 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 21 guests, and 316 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NilsonPardal, corrinezhan, pussycatcatman, Shotsailor, PointDume
7727 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Jake 6
Timbo 3
P.M. 2
Forum Statistics
Forums27
Topics22,268
Posts266,191
Members7,727
Most Online554
May 12th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.011s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8488 MB (Peak: 1.0380 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-16 05:15:55 UTC